Author Topic: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread  (Read 125824 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 26988
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2018, 05:53:44 pm »
Dropping the card out is a bit of a PITA.

It takes me 18 seconds to remove the boot, undo the screws, take off the cover remove the SD card and insert into the PC.
It takes often longer to dick around with a Bluetooth connection.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 26988
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2018, 05:55:16 pm »
You commented on the hassle of getting the SD card out from the meter to have access to the csv file for processing. Maybe Seppy, (Dave 2) can comment, but cant you have access to the csv file from the BLE app? I'm assuming the app on android can use dropbox, etc, or maybe the app is also available for your PC?
I would like to know if this is possible with the app?

It is not possible with the app, the meter firmware does not support this.
This was discussed at the time but UEi said it would not be particularly easy, and with all the other stuff on the list it was decided not to add it Because:
a) The bluetooth app does data logging anyway
b) It fairly trivial to remove the SD card if you are doing long term standlone logging. e.g. <20 seconds to remove the card vs all day logging or whatever, it didn't seem like a big deal.
c) If you are doing a lot of serious data logging then you should have a dedicated and more versatile data logger to begin with.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2018, 07:14:48 pm by EEVblog »
 
The following users thanked this post: 1anX

Offline mattselectronics

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 8
  • Country: de
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2018, 10:05:08 pm »
Dropping the card out is a bit of a PITA.

It takes me 18 seconds to remove the boot, undo the screws, take off the cover remove the SD card and insert into the PC.
It takes often longer to dick around with a Bluetooth connection.

That is very true, Bluetooth can also be a big PITA.  8)
As soon as there is PC support, I'll probably use that instead anyway.
 

Offline dcac

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 122
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2018, 08:43:47 am »


Skip to 16:30 - Dave comments on the auto-ranging speed - infinity to zero ohms, for reference i measured it to 1.6 sec.

 

Offline dcac

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 122
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2018, 08:50:37 am »


Skip to 12:00 - joe smith comments on the auto-ranging speed - infinity to zero ohms, for reference I measured the Gossen to 4.1 sec and the Brymen to 1.6 sec.

And the 121GW has been measured to 7.4 sec - so in this comparison its really nothing but a toy. Though this was ohms measurements and possibly just an 'annoying' issue - if you instead were measuring potentially dangerous voltages - you really want the meter to show the result as fast as possible so you don‘t have to change focus too long from where/how you’re holding the probes. A good practice is of course to put the meter in its highest manual range if you are expecting high voltages, but if you happen to forget that, or if high voltages happen to be present where they really should not be, then a fast auto-ranging DMM is much safer than a slow one.

The same goes for low voltage measurements - the faster you get the result the less chance it is of slipping with the probes possibly shorting something out causing damage to the circuit.

 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 09:10:28 am by dcac »
 

Offline scopeman

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 145
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2018, 12:57:30 pm »
Hi Dave,

Nice Job on the 121GW. I was wondering why you did not have the DC volt range go to 1kV. I think that is the only think that holds me back on this meter at the moment.

Maybe in GEN II?

Sam
W3OHM
 

Offline beanflying

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 836
  • Country: au
  • Toys so very many Toys.
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2018, 01:40:50 pm »
Dropping the card out is a bit of a PITA.

It takes me 18 seconds to remove the boot, undo the screws, take off the cover remove the SD card and insert into the PC.
It takes often longer to dick around with a Bluetooth connection.


That is very true, Bluetooth can also be a big PITA.  8)
As soon as there is PC support, I'll probably use that instead anyway.

True :) If I was likely to use the SD card for remote logging a lot hacking a slot in the side and putting a remote SD reader. Providing the opening was under the boot somewhere would do the job or even a secondary silicone plug for the opening.

About to set up a very boring bluetooth logging session and video it  :=\
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order :)
 

Offline amspire

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3633
  • Country: au
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2018, 04:47:26 pm »
Just noticed that the 1.01 firmware file is on my SD card -

EEVBlog.bin - 117840 bytes - 21st Dec 2017.

i guess the people with firmware 1.02 may have the 1.02 firmware file. Can anyone with 1.02 confirm this? Not sure I actually want to do the update until I get an official update file from Dave. We do not know the difference between the 1.01 and 1.02 firmwares. Could even be a fix for a particular batch of production units that didn't work properly with 1.01.
 

Offline beanflying

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 836
  • Country: au
  • Toys so very many Toys.
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2018, 05:08:04 pm »
Seems most of the Aussie meters might be 1.01? Not in a rush to try and upgrade at this stage.

Boring as Bat Guano video  :=\ Sorry should have had the 121GW backlight on from the beginning. Switched on about 5 minutes in. Bluetooth hiccuped with the first attempt at connecting but hooked up second time around. The Coffee indecently was delicious  ;D

Log below is what I got from the phone app after the entire session. Seems from looking at the video an expected lag but also plenty of either not sent or dropped points? Also the Frequency doesn't seem to have gone into the log but given the stage of the Apps development and data dropping not a big concern.

Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order :)
 

Offline amspire

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3633
  • Country: au
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2018, 05:14:58 pm »
You will definitely get dropped readings on the Bluetooth. The meter is meant to read at 5 times a second I think, but the Bluetooth sends reading only about once per second. It might then take a second or so for the reading to appear on the 121GW App.
 

Offline FrankBuss

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1995
  • Country: de
    • Frank Buss
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2018, 11:22:38 pm »
Skip to 16:30 - Dave comments on the auto-ranging speed - infinity to zero ohms, for reference i measured it to 1.6 sec.

Dave was 8 years younger in this video. When you get older, you are not that impatient anymore  ;D
So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
 
The following users thanked this post: egonotto

Offline hyvamiesh

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
  • Country: fi
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2018, 03:11:42 am »
Anyone know what kind of magnetic strap will fit the meter?
 

Offline iainwhite

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 302
  • Country: us
  • Measure twice...
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2018, 03:40:56 am »
The Fluke magnetic hanger that came with my 179 will fit but it has 1/4 inch of play and is not ideal as it is designed for a semi-circular opening (see picture)
However it does hold the 121GW.

Edit:   The Klein tools Model #69190 sold by Home Depot looks like it might fit as it has a square clip.  I will take a closer look next time I visit HD...


« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 04:06:24 am by iainwhite »
 

Offline dcac

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 122
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2018, 08:20:06 am »
Skip to 16:30 - Dave comments on the auto-ranging speed - infinity to zero ohms, for reference i measured it to 1.6 sec.

Dave was 8 years younger in this video. When you get older, you are not that impatient anymore  ;D

Yes but the DMM Dave is reviewing is then also an 8 year old design. And i.e. MCU performance has increased quite noticeably since then - so 121GW should reasonably be expected to be equal or better in auto-range performance.

To me it’s totally unbelievably Dave would use high quality components - like a good reference and a modern MCU - and then severely limit the 121GW’s practical usability with a ridiculously - possibly even dangerously - slow auto-range speed.

 

Offline IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9066
  • Country: us
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2018, 08:42:04 am »
To me it’s totally unbelievably Dave would use high quality components - like a good reference and a modern MCU - and then severely limit the 121GW’s practical usability with a ridiculously - possibly even dangerously - slow auto-range speed.

It's not like someone would have said, "let's make it slow", and then did it deliberately. One day you have to ship product. You can't hold back forever, fixing every last detail before letting something out the door. If you do that you won't be in business.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline FrankBuss

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1995
  • Country: de
    • Frank Buss
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2018, 09:11:48 am »
It's not like someone would have said, "let's make it slow", and then did it deliberately. One day you have to ship product. You can't hold back forever, fixing every last detail before letting something out the door. If you do that you won't be in business.

For me 7 seconds autoranging is not a detail, and of course he didn't show this in his Kickstarter video, I guess otherwise it wouldn't have sold that much. But it would be the first thing he would show in one of his EEVblog review videos for other multimeters.

I hope they can fix it in the firmware, then it would be really useful for me. I don't think there are any other meters in this price range and precision, and with all these features, like the VA mode, displaying the burden voltage for current measurement, bluetooth, logging etc.
So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
 

Offline dcac

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 122
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2018, 09:51:15 am »
To me it’s totally unbelievably Dave would use high quality components - like a good reference and a modern MCU - and then severely limit the 121GW’s practical usability with a ridiculously - possibly even dangerously - slow auto-range speed.

It's not like someone would have said, "let's make it slow", and then did it deliberately.

Thanks for pointing that out - I didn't mean to imply it was a deliberate act to make it slow.

This DMM been 2 years under development and I just can't understand how on earth a basic thing like this issue was missed - or supposed to be good enough - you use auto-ranging most of the time you use a DMM - if it has that feature.

 

Offline IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9066
  • Country: us
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2018, 09:59:11 am »
This DMM been 2 years under development and I just can't understand how on earth a basic thing like this issue was missed - or supposed to be good enough - you use auto-ranging most of the time you use a DMM - if it has that feature.

Sometimes the reality of working with a distant development team is that you cannot always get what you want out of them. For instance, if they don't know how to make auto-ranging faster, you might ask them again and again to make it faster, and it will be to no avail. If they don't know how to do it, they don't know how to do it. And if you don't own the team, what can you do about that?

I'm not saying this is what happened here, but this is the real world of product development, and things like this do happen. Just read all the complaints from Simon about the sub-contractors he works with...
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 
The following users thanked this post: EEVblog

Offline dcac

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 122
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2018, 10:53:04 am »
This DMM been 2 years under development and I just can't understand how on earth a basic thing like this issue was missed - or supposed to be good enough - you use auto-ranging most of the time you use a DMM - if it has that feature.

Sometimes the reality of working with a distant development team is that you cannot always get what you want out of them. For instance, if they don't know how to make auto-ranging faster, you might ask them again and again to make it faster, and it will be to no avail. If they don't know how to do it, they don't know how to do it. And if you don't own the team, what can you do about that?

I'm not saying this is what happened here, but this is the real world of product development, and things like this do happen. Just read all the complaints from Simon about the sub-contractors he works with...

If that was the case - I think it would be very important to provide that information - that the manufacture had failed to meet - what I would call a very basic functionality.

With the secrecy surrounding this project especially in its early stage , perhaps some information might have been missed or messed up i.e. when Dave got somewhat annoyed when he thought joe smith perhaps went too far in his 121GW prototype testing ,several videos was taken down in that event. But what do I know - for sure though I do not think Dave ever was trying to ‘scam’ anyone.

When Dave gets back he can address this the way he feels appropriate. Can the 121GW be speeded up? what auto-range speed would the current HW allow?

 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4922
  • Country: us
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2018, 11:43:58 am »
With the secrecy surrounding this project especially in its early stage , perhaps some information might have been missed or messed up i.e. when Dave got somewhat annoyed when he thought joe smith perhaps went too far in his 121GW prototype testing ,several videos was taken down in that event. But what do I know - for sure though I do not think Dave ever was trying to ‘scam’ anyone.

When Dave gets back he can address this the way he feels appropriate. Can the 121GW be speeded up? what auto-range speed would the current HW allow?

And again, just so we are all clear, Dave NEVER asked me to pull the videos.  He never even suggested it.   He was concerned with how confused people were getting.  I thought it was fairly clear that it was not a production unit but never the less, you could see the confusion in the posts surrounding it.   This is why I pulled it.   I also removed some of the my posts about the meter to avoid future confusion for people who were not following.   I would guess that the people who were interested  in seeing the meter watched, so it was not that big of a deal to pull it.

I think re-posting them would add little value at this point.   There are many members who have the released meter.  People have been very willing to share their findings and run specific tests.  Really this is what we should be looking at, not old prototype hardware. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline beanflying

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 836
  • Country: au
  • Toys so very many Toys.
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2018, 11:59:11 am »


This DMM been 2 years under
....
I'm not saying this is what happened here, but this is the real world of product development, and things like this do happen. Just read all the complaints from Simon about the sub-contractors he works with...

And it is a meter you DON'T have one of and have spent the last 20 of your posts posts beating the drum on one point  :horse:

You have added what to the constructive debate and or knowledge on the product?  ???
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order :)
 

Offline dcac

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 122
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2018, 01:50:02 pm »
I think re-posting them would add little value at this point.

The only value I can see in those prototype videos would be if they somehow showed (significantly) faster auto-ranging than what's now been determined in the production model.

 

Offline nidlaX

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 653
  • Country: us
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2018, 02:53:36 pm »
Not meaning to beat a dead :horse:, but here's another example of slow autoranging on a high end handheld DMM:

« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 02:55:44 pm by nidlaX »
 

Offline dcac

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 122
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2018, 07:44:16 pm »
@nidlaX - Thanks for your input - and very useful review!

From infinity to zero ohms I measured the Yokogawa to 3.4 sec and the Fluke to 1.9 sec - interesting with the Fluke that the display doesn’t seem to react at first but then it shows the value quickly. Also should be pointed out those DMM only went down to 10milliohms resolution - where the 121GW goes down to milliohms - but I’d give that up anytime for faster speed.

 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4922
  • Country: us
Re: EEVBlog 121GW Discussion thread
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2018, 08:52:24 pm »
I think re-posting them would add little value at this point.

The only value I can see in those prototype videos would be if they somehow showed (significantly) faster auto-ranging than what's now been determined in the production model.
So you basically just want to know if anything has changed.  This makes sense.  I setup a very simple test where I placed both the preproduction 121GW and Gossen M248B next to one another with a stop watch.   I then drove the two meters using a common source between there min and max ranges.  So both meters are triggered at the same time for all practical purposes. 

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf