Author Topic: New R&S RTO6  (Read 657 times)

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Offline darkstar49

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New R&S RTO6
« on: July 05, 2021, 01:55:22 pm »

Largely out-of-range for most of us here, still... can't wait to see some of those on Ebay... ;D



https://youtu.be/yK0Mh-l2stQ
https://youtu.be/ZNfOhXdHXN8
https://youtu.be/TYd7csyFLqQ

These guys really know what 'MDO' means...
 

Offline jusaca

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Re: New R&S RTO6
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2021, 02:44:42 pm »
Interestingly, this new higher end series has only an 8 Bit ADC, instead of the 12 Bit one they use in some of the lower price series.
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: New R&S RTO6
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2021, 03:37:53 pm »
The new trade dress looks sharp!

Vertically oriented knobs for vertical control and horizontally oriented knobs for horizontal control? I love it! It looks like they got rid of the record length knob, though, which is a bummer. I use that knob a lot and miss it on other scopes. Ah well. It's a small quibble. My other R&S design choice favorites have grown in industry mindshare (RGB ring knobs, History Mode) and I suppose you can't win them all :)

The intensity-graded overlapped FFTs are wonderful. Those are what initially drew my eye to the RTO product line a decade ago. Since then, they have gotten faster and gotten more bins, but the competition has been heating up. Tek's overlap/composite capability is poor but they have the ability to trigger on frequency and decouple the timebases. Keysight has full blown RTSA capability which can cover 100% of the acquired samples in overlapped FFTs but the time correlation is poor. My dream is to see all these capabilities in a single scope. The race is on!

It looks like the RTO6 is currently still using the same custom R&S ADC set as the last two RTO generations, even my RTO1024: 4x 10GS/s 8-bit. Those are starting to show their age. The ENOB is abnormally high for an 8 bit ADC and the "HD mode" filtering is abnormally good for a hi-res mode (it's not just a boxcar filter and the filtered waveform is available for trigger) but still, it's aging. The R&S ADC team made a 10-bit 5GS/s design for the RTM/RTA scopes a couple years ago, so I imagine there were plans to refresh the RTO front-end that didn't quite land in time. That's unfortunate, but given the global chip shortage it isn't necessarily surprising. I am sure those new ADCs will show up sooner or later!  ;D
 

Offline Sighound36

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Re: New R&S RTO6
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2021, 04:32:51 pm »
The GUI has been vastly improved over the previous RTO models  8)
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: New R&S RTO6
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2021, 04:53:20 pm »
Agreed. Those FFTs are really something! 10kHz RBW over 10GS/s sampling, overlapped and composited enough to make a heatmap, and still with lively updates! Throw in another factor of 2 because R&S knows not to do rectangular windowing. Between this and the gigasample traces compositing at several frames per second, I am very excited by the ability to chew through data!


This is the RTO ADC and paper:
Quote
PRIME 2012 - A 10GS/s Single-Core 8-bit ADC with an ENOB above 7.0 up to 4.2GHz
The ADC is notable for taking the approach of "build one converter and make it very, very fast" rather than "build many converters, sample heavily and interleave heavily, and calibrate them very carefully to match each other." This strategy served them well in 2010, hopefully it didn't backfire in 2020, but regardless, I'm sure the timing with the chip crunch didn't help. The other vendors finished their ADC refresh cycles right before COVID while R&S got caught out. They are probably making the right move by not letting ADC issues stop them from the trade dress and GUI refresh. Different teams, different timing, staggered releases -- it's not a delay, it's Tick Tock development, right? Right.

Does anyone know if the RTM/RTA adc papers are published (you know, the ones that say "SAD" on the lid)? Also, 5 GS/s is the nameplate sample rate, but I don't know what the sampling/multiplexing looks like. Does anyone know how many of these chips live in a RTA?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2021, 04:57:32 pm by jjoonathan »
 

Offline nikifena

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Re: New R&S RTO6
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2021, 08:08:21 pm »
It reminds me of the new Tek scopes overall look, but I like it!
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: New R&S RTO6
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2021, 08:33:45 pm »
It goes both ways. The singular ring-lit RGB vertical control popped up first in R&S land and migrated to Tek land. The boxy gray-with-highlight-strip channel summaries popped up in Tek land and migrated to R&S land. In the future, I hope that Tek copies the overlapped + color graded FFTs from R&S and that R&S copies the decoupled timebase ability from Tek.

Competition is good for the customer!
 

Online tv84

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Re: New R&S RTO6
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2021, 08:35:13 pm »





Youtube has many others...
 


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