Author Topic: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A  (Read 40303 times)

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Offline AntiCat

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2014, 10:12:21 am »
I used the NSEQ key which gave all the options and changed to bandwidth of the scope from 70Mhz to 200Mhz.  I didn't go for 300Mhz because like others here have said, 300Mhz would be pushing it a bit with a 2/1Ghz sample rate.

Thx for the quick response. I saw the overshoot at 300MHz in the other (long) thread. I just had a hard time believing that the bandwidth is based on the serial number - like one of the options.
 

Offline Perry

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2014, 06:30:39 pm »
Max sample rate on the Cubes is 200 MSa/s.  But they can sync to a System Clock, up to 100M (State Mode), and the Rigols can't, at any speed.  That right there could buy you 10x.  They can be had up to 32-bit wide models, but max depth is 2M samples on any model (though they have a Compression mode the Rigols lack, which can vastly exceed the Rigol capacity... runs up to 8M+ samples use only 1 memory slot).  The Cubes have way more protocol decoders, and are extensible, while the Rigols, not.  Rigols are standalone, while the Cube requires a PC.  But the Cube provides way better analysis/display capabilities, and enhanced triggering.  The Rigol is better at real-time probing, while the Cube blows it away for post-mortem exploration.  The Cube models can be had for just over $100, while the LA add-on to the Rigols adds $400 to the 2000 and $250 to the 1000.  Lastly, the Rigols can show you logic signals along-side time-correlated analog signals, and the Cubes can't show analog at all (so if your problem is in the analog domain, you'll never see it).
Besides being able to show the signals on the same screen and record them together in the scope (and doing away with the PC requirement), if you have the logic cube and a 2 channel oscilloscope, is there anything you'd be missing by getting separate instruments instead of the integrated unit?  If you want to see an analog waveform time correlated with the digital signals seen by the logic analyzer you can probe the analog signal and one of the digital lines to give you a common time reference between the logic cube and the scope.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2014, 11:00:34 am »
Any more experiences on the Logic Analyzer from users out there with an MSO1074A or an MSO2072A?

You are more than welcome to share here!
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2014, 07:28:51 pm »
Hey, Perry.  My apologies on not responding to your followup questions.  I missed them.

Max sample rate on the Cubes is 200 MSa/s.  But they can sync to a System Clock, up to 100M (State Mode), and the Rigols can't, at any speed.  That right there could buy you 10x.  They can be had up to 32-bit wide models, but max depth is 2M samples on any model (though they have a Compression mode the Rigols lack, which can vastly exceed the Rigol capacity... runs up to 8M+ samples use only 1 memory slot).  The Cubes have way more protocol decoders, and are extensible, while the Rigols, not.  Rigols are standalone, while the Cube requires a PC.  But the Cube provides way better analysis/display capabilities, and enhanced triggering.  The Rigol is better at real-time probing, while the Cube blows it away for post-mortem exploration.  The Cube models can be had for just over $100, while the LA add-on to the Rigols adds $400 to the 2000 and $250 to the 1000.  Lastly, the Rigols can show you logic signals along-side time-correlated analog signals, and the Cubes can't show analog at all (so if your problem is in the analog domain, you'll never see it).
Besides being able to show the signals on the same screen and record them together in the scope (and doing away with the PC requirement), if you have the logic cube and a 2 channel oscilloscope, is there anything you'd be missing by getting separate instruments instead of the integrated unit?  If you want to see an analog waveform time correlated with the digital signals seen by the logic analyzer you can probe the analog signal and one of the digital lines to give you a common time reference between the logic cube and the scope.

No, I don't think you're really missing anything more than what you have enumerated.  For some people, those things may be quite important.  For others, the benefits of separates far outweigh the limitations. 

For example, I know that when working with protocol decoding, many working on embedded systems simply use the analog channels to do a preliminary check.  I.e., to ensure that there are no obvious data-corruption issues due to noise, glitches, threshold shifts, etc.  Once that has been confirmed, they shift to the logic domain, and use the tools most appropriate for that task.  Once a specific issue has been located, if there is any concern it may be analog in nature, the analog scope can be used for a spot check, and triggered from the LA output.

I don't think anyone would tell you that the LA's built into any of the Rigol MSOs are the best or most powerful tools possible.  They simply don't have the same sophistication of triggering capabilities, or diversity of protocol decoders that some separate analyzers do.  But they are convenient to hook up and use, and do an effective job when the situation isn't overly complex.  Sometimes it will be all you will need, and be quicker than breaking out another test device, and configuring it for capture/analysis.  But for those times they're not adequate, then you're back to not having the right tool for the job.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2014, 10:06:54 pm »
Who is going to review the LA part in details on those scopes and compare relatively?
(Rigol MSO2072A versus Rigol MSO1074Z)
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2014, 01:35:42 am »
Who is going to review the LA part in details on those scopes and compare relatively?
(Rigol MSO2072A versus Rigol MSO1074Z)

I already did an extensive and detailed comparison of those two LA's.  You just can't be bothered to look for it.

[another Notification to shut off.]
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2014, 02:02:32 pm »
I haven't seen any detailed review on the LA part.
Many useless pictures on bandwidth measurements, but that's on the analog part.
 

Offline pa3bca

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2014, 03:30:51 pm »
I haven't seen any detailed review on the LA part.
Many useless pictures on bandwidth measurements, but that's on the analog part.
Yes, useless to those who - not owning a scope themselves - have now for more than a year been demanding others to provide all sort of information and demanding them to do experiments, start forum topics on whatever...
And to what end one may wonder....
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 03:32:28 pm by pa3bca »
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #58 on: October 26, 2014, 03:44:21 pm »
As I wrote in another posting I will buy it in November. Have to wait on approval of governmental funding project.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2014, 05:55:49 pm »
As I wrote in another posting I will buy it in November. Have to wait on approval of governmental funding project.

The problem is, as pointed out before, you've already said you were about to buy a DSO within a couple of weeks/months a few times already. Do you know the story of the boy that cried wolf? At this point, I think it would be wise to refrain from asking for much more information until you actually buy your DSO; you might want some help once you have it - and you don't want to have used up the good will of the community here.  :)
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2014, 06:28:59 pm »
I fully understand your remarks and concerns.

Thanks for the advice! I will no longer post anything until I have my scope.

Appreciate if the community gives me a second chance, and that we can start with a clean sheet, once I have my scope :)
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2014, 06:33:53 pm »
I haven't seen any detailed review on the LA part.

As I said already, you haven't seen it because you haven't looked for it.  Other than perhaps in the two threads on the topic that you yourself started.

Now, I'm not as clever as you are, to ask questions about Rigol's current MSO's buried in a thread about the DS1052D, as you did.  So my comments were posted in a thread comparing the MSO2072 and MSO1074.  Yes, shocking I admit.  And if you did a search, you'd find there were 5 threads on the subject, and it was the 2nd one.

Of course, you have to know what to search for, and it can be confusing to select search terms.  The interest was in comparing the MSO2000 series with the MSO1000z series, and if you put specific model numbers in there, you may come up empty (unless you just got lucky and matched by accident).  So I'll let you in on a little secret about searching that I picked up many years ago, after trying extensively for several minutes.  "If your search comes up empty, try something less specific."  You only need to get specific if the hit count is high, and you need to narrow things down.  In this case, "MSO20 MSO10", or even "MSO2 MSO1" would do the trick.

And no, I'm not going to hand you the link on a silver platter.  You'll have to expend all the effort to go to the top, enter 9 characters, and click the Search button.  Then click the 2nd thread in the list, and read down until you find the details.

Quote
Many useless pictures on bandwidth measurements, but that's on the analog part.

Wow.  Seriously dude?  Dissing the work of others, when you haven't ever contributed any of your own?  :wtf:  :--

You make me wish there was an "Ignore this person" option in these Forums, but you can safely conclude this will be the last response you will ever get from me.  You're the only person I've ever run across here that annoyed me so much by their sheer arrogance and laziness that I was tempted to say something unprofessional, that would probably get me banned.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2014, 06:52:22 pm »
I apologize for my comment. Did not mean it like that. Sorry.
Should have written "Many pictures on bandwidth measurements, but that's on the analog part." :)

Actually have no interest anymore in reading your LA comparison after your uncivilized remark.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 08:00:28 pm by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline pa3bca

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2014, 08:13:24 pm »
Actually have no interest anymore in reading your LA comparison after your uncivilized remark.
So you're passing up on an opportunity to learn something valuable (and you did ask for the info) because you feel the author wasn't nice enough to you?
Now there is an Ad Hominem...
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2014, 09:01:36 pm »
There is no proof or evidence that the LA review has been performed by a person with the right credentials and academic background.. so no.. thanks.. I skip this one.

And you only have a Masters that you haven't used in a while, just imagine you had a PhD I don't think anyone could tolerate you then :)

You think you are not insulting people but we are not stupid and we know when some academic down talk to us because you are not as clever as you think you are.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2014, 09:08:52 pm »
This forum should also be accessible for dummies.

I consider myself as a dummy when it comes up to test equipment. But I don't consider myself as lazy.
And I waited with buying the scope, as I had another analog scope available.

But if people ask questions here, which indeed might be stupid, there should be respect.
Some die hards out there, want to show off with their complex posting entries.
I don't understand what they gain with this honestly.
 

Offline pa3bca

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2014, 09:24:35 pm »
This forum should also be accessible for dummies.
Hey, the universe (and this forum) owes you nothing.
But apart from that, if you look and read carefully you will see that these fora are very accessible also to young players. Almost all questions (however often these may be repeat questions or simple for experienced members) are answered extensively.
But there are limits, and your track record shows you dangerously close to the edge imo...
Quote
But if people ask questions here, which indeed might be stupid, there should be respect.
Some die hards out there, want to show off with their complex posting entries.
I don't understand what they gain with this honestly.
Really? So if a post does not interest you or is not immediately understood by you you conclude that the authors are just showing off?
Sorry dude, but these fora are not solely here to serve you.

 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2014, 09:04:52 am »
Hi
For my very first post on this forum.  I have read through this and other threads on the MSO1074Z-S which I am planning to purchase by the the end of November.  I've wanted and needed a DSO Scope, Waveform Generator and Logic Analyzer for some time and priced out purchasing separate pieces vs the all-in-one solution like the MSO1074Z-S and it just seems this is the lower cost option and I've not seen many complaints on the Rigol Equipment.

My question is around the hacking/moding the MSO1074Z-S.
I've seen allot of comments about moding the MSO2072A using JTAG and blackfin but nothing I could find on the MSO1074Z-S. 
Has anyone yet to hack one successfully and if so what was used?

I've seen the one for the DS1054Z and as I understand the MSO is the same basic scope with the LA installed/enabled so I wonder if the same utility will work as shown on the youtube video http://tinyurl.com/l7xq7zb

I appreciate an information or comments on the topic and TIA
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 

Offline msraya

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2014, 07:15:25 pm »
Hello smgvbest!

I own a MSO1074Z-S, I have used the oscilloscope for one week only. I've only been able to test it in daily use with sinusoidal signals, the FFT is somewhat vague (it gets input from screen, no memory), but have dBV scale and is enough for simple tests. I tested the logic analyzer and somewhat the signal generator. The autocalibration of channels is a very slow process, about 20 minutes.

This model with the latest version of firmware is not public hackable to my knowledge, some users have reported hacking it, but they have not put the info for it anywhere. Surely it will be hackable in the future. I do not want to break the "void warranty" sticker. :-DD   However, the oscilloscope without hacking meets my expectations and I do not need to pay for any additional option for common use.  :phew:

The LA works fine with no problem, only several times slow than Agilent equivalent but nothing unexpected or that makes it unusable. The LA POD is warmer to touch. The decoding is useless (made in software, not hardware), maybe the serial RS232 decoding was useful, but it is very slow and It can slow down the oscilloscope UI, block the scope and force your to recycle power.  :--

The signal generator is a bit awkward to use, because it has not dedicated knobs, but not impossible to use. It has No input modulation (but AM/FM internal low frequency modulation), no external trigger input, no trigger output (but You can use second channel for it), no external source of time base. Very limiting, but useful for some tests.

I go to coding a MATLAB Frequency Analyzer thru SCPI programing via Ethernet (I made it time ago with Series 6000 Agilent scopes, and Agilent Arb signal generators), using the generator and the oscilloscope itself. I hope I do not have programming problems... I will see..

In short, a compact and affordable oscilloscope for less than 1000 euros.  :-+
I also will go for the DSA815TG when I have the cash  :=\

Regards
Manuel
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 07:33:32 pm by msraya »
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2014, 09:02:19 am »
Hi msraya,

Thank you for your post.   That was very helpful and I have ordered my MS01074Z-S and it should be here Thursday. Can't wait to explorer what I can do with and will keep in mind the limits you mention.  I love my analog scope (a Tek 2467B) and this one will make a nice addition.

I've also been reading allot more of the post around here on hacking the Rigol scopes and certainly agree with the concept of keeping thing quite and not rocking the boat.   Personally I think Rigol will do great if they continue to put only minor effort into patching the holes.  That shows (even if half hearted that Rigols wants to fix it to the corporate customers while still allowing hobbyist and others on limited budgets to get more (or at least feel like we are) by being able to hack our scopes. As long as Marketing and Lawyers stay out the world is good.  soon as they get involved it goes to S^&(.



Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 

Offline msraya

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2014, 01:19:21 pm »
Hello smgvbest!

Yes I also agree with you that they are interesting to have in the shack. Undoubtedly, knowing its limitations they are more bang for the buck.
But unfortunately it is not possible to hack the new MSO1074-S units.  :(

I go for the DSA-815-TG, but unfortunately it is backorder at BATRONIX and I will wait minimum to the December 5th, to ship the SA to me.
The new SA from RIGOL is also impossible to hack. They changed bootloader for no downgrade.  :(

I think You are wrong about hacking, RIGOL does not promote hacking in any way as they are updating their firmware for stopping hacking.
What has happened to their scopes have been just another more bug.

It is interesting that if RIGOL answer to the bugs with good firmware updates they can absorb not only the hobby market as you claim but also the maintenance, repair and low-end R&D markets that were previously only taken over by other more known suppliers.
RIGOL fame precedes it for better and for worse.

Regards
Manuel
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 01:22:37 pm by msraya »
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2014, 02:57:19 pm »
Hi msraya,

One of the discussions I saw for the DS1000Z line which from what I saw is the same board as a MSO1000Z line was not around the same hack as the DS2000 Line but that someone (sorry do not remember the name) looked at how they generated the keys and created a key generator for the DS1000Z and others.   Since this one was not based on it being blackfin based and unless the changed the crypto part of the license generation which would need they would also have to different processes for older users who are not at the current software levels( i guess since it's based on serial  all they would need to do is ask for what level software you're at then force you to the latests when you apply the licenses).   Sorry I tend to have random thoughts while typing.

As for Rigol,   I did not intend my comment to indicate what they are doing but what I would hope they would do.   I would love to see a large company realize they can leverage hackers instead of thinking of them as an enemy like Apple does (which amazes me since apple was created by hackers).   If they would realize how many customers they could have and reputation they would generate instead of listening to lawyers they almost could have the cake and eat it too.  IMHO.
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #72 on: November 19, 2014, 03:02:35 pm »
Got to love UPS,   My scope is sitting at the local office since 8am this morning.   but not scheduled for delivery until tomorrow.  What do they do.  leave it sitting there for 24 hrs,  |O.   And since it's not had a delivery attempt I can not pick it up yet. :palm:
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 

Offline nixfu

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #73 on: November 20, 2014, 07:52:26 am »
>local office since 8am this morning

That means they unloaded it off the tractor trailer AFTER the package car driver had already left for the day to make deliveries.
 

Offline smgvbest

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Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2014, 08:27:24 pm »
I would buy that if not for in the past packages have sat and waited for days to be delivered by UPS.  They will not deliver early.  Have never seen that happen. 

Any way received the scope and and very happy with it. 
Same board version and software version as has already been reported and has the same triggering issue and 5us delay issue as reported already. 

Hopefully someone will figure our how to generate licenses without needing to open it up and use JTAG. 
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 


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