Author Topic: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A  (Read 40332 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« on: June 30, 2014, 09:56:18 am »
Hello,
I wanted to check if anybody has had hands-on experience on any of the new MSO series from Rigol?

I am considering to buy a new scope now, and am thinking about MSO1074Z, as it seems to have everything I need.
4 Channels is very handy.

Anybody who has tried this scope already and has some early feedback?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 09:05:34 am by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline jeanberf

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
  • Country: fr
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2014, 02:53:45 pm »
Hello,
I have exactly the same concern as this news products have been released only a few weeks ago.
They really seems nice but have some feedback experience would help us a lot.
Regards
Jean-Bernard
 

Offline WesleyK

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 18
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2014, 07:18:16 am »
Same here,
I'm planning on buying a DS2072A but might as well be buying a MSO2072A instead. Only thing that worries me is the hack-ability of the new models. And do these MSOs also decode the logic analyzer inputs? I believe they do but I cannot seem to find any videos/experiences on this.

I would be great if somebody could tell more about this.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 03:00:21 pm by WesleyK »
 

Offline Fred27

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 672
  • Country: gb
    • Fred's blog
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2014, 10:25:03 am »
Are they even available yet?
 

Offline WesleyK

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 18
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2014, 10:49:39 am »
Batronix seems to have them in stock:
http://batronix.com/shop/rigol/MSO2000A.html
 

Offline MarcelM

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: nl
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2014, 12:09:11 pm »
Batronix seems to have them in stock:
http://batronix.com/shop/rigol/MSO2000A.html
I ordered one from them, expecting a shipment confirmation today or tomorrow...
I'm hopeful on the upgrade-ability, as they seem to use the same firmware as the DS2000a series...

Regards,
Marcel
--------------------------------------------
Electronics is FUN !
If you want me to take it seriously,
... Call, and we'll talk consultancy rates ...
--------------------------------------------
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2014, 05:07:26 pm »
Keep us posted Marcel!

Like to hear more about overall performance, and decoding options on the Digital Logical Analyzer.
I am actually wondering if it would have a more powerful CPU under the hood compared to the little brother without the LA option.
Strictly speaking it should have! More options need more power.

Is there any information menu where the CPU model/performance and system memory can be checked?

Hopefully the first initial models will have final PCB board layout and not any bridges with wires. Some "Rigol Take apart" movies showed that this was the case on some early MSO4000 models, which cost extremely much, and which for me would not be acceptable in that price range =)
 

Offline MarcelM

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: nl
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2014, 10:31:49 pm »
OK, got a tracking number, MSO2072A is on its way to me.
Should arrive tomorrow, will take a peek inside and look for patches...
If there's interest, I can take some pictures of the inside...

Regards,
Marcel
--------------------------------------------
Electronics is FUN !
If you want me to take it seriously,
... Call, and we'll talk consultancy rates ...
--------------------------------------------
 

Offline MarcelM

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: nl
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2014, 07:46:38 am »
OK, my new toy arrived!
It is an MSO2074A, reporting the following:
- Serial number is DS2F.........
- Software version is 00.03.00.SP1
- Hardware version is 2.2

First impressions are that this is a really nice tool that should serve me well for years to come.

I don't know what to make of the SP1 at the end of the SW version number...
Does it mean that there is now another layer of security to prevent unlocking?

Should I now get a JTAG tool to dump the memory contents of the Blackfin?

Regards,
Marcel
--------------------------------------------
Electronics is FUN !
If you want me to take it seriously,
... Call, and we'll talk consultancy rates ...
--------------------------------------------
 

Offline tinhead

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1925
  • Country: 00
    • If you like my hacks, send me a donation
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2014, 07:56:58 am »
I don't want to be human! I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter ...
I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me.
 

Offline Fred27

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 672
  • Country: gb
    • Fred's blog
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2014, 09:00:49 am »
When I was originally looking at scopes I considered the DS1052D (i.e. the MSO version of the classic  DS1052E). Whilst it initially looked nice for the sort of work I do, I discounted it because the digital and analogue sides seemed separate. If you had an analogue and digital signal on screen at the same time they weren't quite in sync. Someone uploaded a helpful YouTube video of this. I'd be interested to know if this exhibits the same issue.
 

Offline WesleyK

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 18
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2014, 09:38:00 am »
Could you post a link to that video? I'm also interested in getting the MSO variant, as long as its hackable but if the analog and digital signals aren't in sync, I might just as well get a DS2072 instead.
 

Offline MarcelM

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: nl
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2014, 11:01:27 am »

It is an MSO2074A:


???

Strike that, it's an MSO2072A

(got caught out by the subject title)

Rgds,
Marcel
--------------------------------------------
Electronics is FUN !
If you want me to take it seriously,
... Call, and we'll talk consultancy rates ...
--------------------------------------------
 

Offline MarcelM

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: nl
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2072A
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2014, 12:23:13 pm »
Some more info on what software / firmware is in the new MSO2072A (delivered yesterday)

Model:  MSO2072A
Serial:   DS2F161......
Software version: 00.03.00.01.03
FPGA version:
  SPU : 04.00.07
  WPU: 01.01.03
  CCU: 12.29.00
  MCU: 02.44
  LAU : 01.01.03

--------------------------------------------
Electronics is FUN !
If you want me to take it seriously,
... Call, and we'll talk consultancy rates ...
--------------------------------------------
 

Offline Fred27

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 672
  • Country: gb
    • Fred's blog
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2014, 02:58:53 pm »
Could you post a link to that video? I'm also interested in getting the MSO variant, as long as its hackable but if the analog and digital signals aren't in sync, I might just as well get a DS2072 instead.
I can't get to YouTube at work but a search for DS1052D review should do it.
 

Offline AintBigAintClever

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 53
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2014, 10:37:30 am »
I'd be wary of updating it right now. 3.x firmware knows what to do with MSO hardware, but the modified 2.x firmware used to dump the keys?

Better off using a method that doesn't involve flashing with older firmware, such as JTAG as mentioned above. This post would be a good place to start.
 

Offline Mark_O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 937
  • Country: us
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2014, 02:31:01 pm »
When I was originally looking at scopes I considered the DS1052D (i.e. the MSO version of the classic  DS1052E). Whilst it initially looked nice for the sort of work I do, I discounted it because the digital and analogue sides seemed separate.

That's unfortunate.  "seemed" is the operative word there.   :--

Quote
If you had an analogue and digital signal on screen at the same time they weren't quite in sync.  Someone uploaded a helpful YouTube video of this.

I wouldn't consider it very helpful... since it was wrong.    :palm:

Quote
I'd be interested to know if this exhibits the same issue.

I'm sure someone could make a similar defective test, and make it appear so.   |O
 

Offline MarcelM

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: nl
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2014, 07:45:55 pm »
I took some pictures of the internals of my new MSO2072A
If anyone's intrested, I can post them here...

In the meantime, I've ordered an Olimex ARM-USB-OCD-H to make a memorydump.
After that, I'll post a link to Tirulerbach and ask him nicely to look into it.

Best Regards,
Marcel
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 07:25:37 am by MarcelM »
--------------------------------------------
Electronics is FUN !
If you want me to take it seriously,
... Call, and we'll talk consultancy rates ...
--------------------------------------------
 

Offline MarcelM

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: nl
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2074A
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2014, 09:05:24 am »
Keep us posted Marcel!

Like to hear more about overall performance, and decoding options on the Digital Logical Analyzer.
I am actually wondering if it would have a more powerful CPU under the hood compared to the little brother without the LA option.
Strictly speaking it should have! More options need more power.
From looking at the PCB, it seems that LA functionality is (mostly) embedded in a third FPGA, most probably also a Spartan6). A closeup of the CPU shows it is still a BlackFin526
Quote
Is there any information menu where the CPU model/performance and system memory can be checked?
not that I know of, but I haven't yet spent a lot of time with it..
Quote
Hopefully the first initial models will have final PCB board layout and not any bridges with wires. Some "Rigol Take apart" movies showed that this was the case on some early MSO4000 models, which cost extremely much, and which for me would not be acceptable in that price range =)
No worries there, the PCB looks very clean to me, no obvious patchwork.

I did find a row of resistors marked "Hardware Version", probably to identify the board revision level to the software. Alternatively, it is possible that these indicate factory-installed options...

As long as my MSO is open on the workbench (waiting for my JTAG pod to arrive) I can take pictures of specific details...
--------------------------------------------
Electronics is FUN !
If you want me to take it seriously,
... Call, and we'll talk consultancy rates ...
--------------------------------------------
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2072A
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2014, 08:56:19 am »
Anybody who has bought a MSO1074Z and wants to share some experiences? Hopefully the PCB board there is also a clean design, without any last-minute fixes and wire bridges.

Regarding the CPU in MSO1074Z and MSO2072A. Is there a big difference in performance?

What does the MSO2072A have, that the MSO1074Z does not have?
Is it correct that it is only a bit faster, has deeper memory, and can handle higher bandwidth?

But if you do not need the higher bandwidth and the deeper memory, it is probably better to go for the 4 channels right?
Patching the MSO1074Z up to 300 MHz, and going for the optional increased memory depth, should be more than enough for my expected application area,
and I really appreciate the 4 channels.

 

Offline MarcelM

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: nl
Re: Experiences on MSO1074Z and MSO2072A
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2014, 11:10:06 am »
Anybody who has bought a MSO1074Z and wants to share some experiences? Hopefully the PCB board there is also a clean design, without any last-minute fixes and wire bridges.

Regarding the CPU in MSO1074Z and MSO2072A. Is there a big difference in performance?

What does the MSO2072A have, that the MSO1074Z does not have?
Is it correct that it is only a bit faster, has deeper memory, and can handle higher bandwidth?
For one thing, the MSO2000A does up to 2GSa/s, where the MSO1074Z tops out at 1GSa/s.
(If you actually want to use more than 2 channels, this tops out at 250MSa/s)
So 300MHz is really only achievable if you're running 1 channel only.
Quote
But if you do not need the higher bandwidth and the deeper memory, it is probably better to go for the 4 channels right?
Patching the MSO1074Z up to 300 MHz, and going for the optional increased memory depth, should be more than enough for my expected application area,
and I really appreciate the 4 channels.
If you don't need the higher bandwidth, why bother with the 300MHz?
When using more than 1 channel, you Nyquist frequency is at 250 MHz (125Mhz for more than 2 channels), meaning that all that extra bandwidth is used for aliasing high-frequency noise and signals...
I find that, for most of my (mainly digital) design work, the 16 digital channels more than make up for the fact I have only 2 analog channels...
In my opinion, if you can swallow the price difference and don't absolutely need more than 2 ANALOG channels, go for the MSO2000A series...

Just my $0,02

Regards,
Marcel
--------------------------------------------
Electronics is FUN !
If you want me to take it seriously,
... Call, and we'll talk consultancy rates ...
--------------------------------------------
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2014, 12:13:42 pm »
Good point actually.

4 ANALOG channels should not be needed, as the majority of the oscilloscopes in university labs have only 2 ANALOG channels.

My work area is mainly digital as well.

Using 4 channels at the same time will probably also slow down the overall performance.
And if the input is digital, you should not sacrifice the analog channel, but use the MSO channel :)
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2014, 12:41:45 pm »
Very recent YouTube movie about MSO2072A:


Who will make one for the MSO1074Z? :)
 

Offline WesleyK

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 18
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2014, 01:02:49 pm »
So they are doing an unboxing of a brand new 2014 released scope, and are using something that looks like a VHS camcorder to do so?  :palm:
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 01:09:10 pm by WesleyK »
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2014, 01:57:32 pm »
Anybody with more feedback about the MSO2072A or the MSO1074Z?

If you are doing digital design 2 analog channels are more than enough given that you have 16 digital channels.
So that makes me conclude to go for the MSO2072A. Now just need more feedback on it from users who bought it, opened it, used it, are happy or have remarks :)
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2014, 02:29:52 pm »
Stupid question:

The scope has Bandwidth, and there is Sample rate.

Do you need higher sample rate if BW is higher?

E.g. 70 MHz, 2G Samples/s per channel.
What if you patch the scope to 300 MHz. Will 2G samples/second still do?

Why would one need 4G samples/second (as in the MSO4000 series)?

Why is 1G samples/second not enough (as in the MSO1074Z)?
 

Offline jmt

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2014, 02:35:21 pm »
70 MHz bandwidth is the bandwidth of the analog frontend which is then sampled at 2GS/s in the case of the MSO2072A. However, if you use both channels then this drops to 1GS/s per channel. Same thing with the MS4000 series, as you use more analog channels the sampling rate for each channel is reduced.

The amount of bandwidth you need really depends on what your application is.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2014, 07:48:28 am »
The sample rate of 1G samples/second seems high, and enough for most application.
Can you name an example where this would not be enough?

Are you sure that 2G samples/second is split on the DS2072A when using both channels?
I thought that this was 2G samples/second for EACH channel.

Same for the DS4000 series. 4G samples/second for EACH channel.

For the DS1074Z and MSO1074Z series it is a different story. There it is 1G samples/second if only one channel is used, 500 MB samples/second if 2 channels are used, and 250 MB samples/second if 4 channels are used.

But you say that same structure applies to the more high-end models?
 

Offline miguelvp

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5550
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2014, 11:43:12 am »
Are you sure that 2G samples/second is split on the DS2072A when using both channels?
I thought that this was 2G samples/second for EACH channel.

First post here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2014, 08:31:25 am »
I would like to get feedback on the loudness of the fan.

Who has an MSO2072A out there? Is it noisy?

Who has a DS2072A out there? Is it noisy?
I have heard from people that this model in particular is very quite, and therefore expect MSO2072A should be same or better. (Newer models should be less loud?)

What about MSO1074Z and DS1074Z?
I have heard that DS1074Z is very noisy. Maybe the new MSO1074Z is quiter? (New and quieter?)

Appreciate feedback on the loudness of these models: DS2072A, MSO2072A, DS1074Z, MSO1074Z.
 

Offline WesleyK

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 18
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2014, 07:15:29 pm »
I got mine last week, still have a lot to learn as this is my first scope but I do have some experience with a Tektronix TDS2024B. Great scope, so far :). Menu's are quite easy to navigate through, some things could be better but not bad for a Chinese scope.
The fan is relatively loud, I thought it would be louder reading all the "complaints" about the fan and figured I would have to replace it. After hearing it myself I don't think I will bother to replace the fan, it's not that loud, noticeable is a better word to describe the fan. I think you can compare it to an old (Pentium 4 "age") regarding the computer noise level.

I might be able to do some measurements for you later this week.
 

Offline Mark_O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 937
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2014, 05:40:03 pm »
My solution looks like this.

- Ventilation grille removed.
- Fan is rotated, blow the inside.
- Mounted with cable ties.
- Rear housing cover removed.

That's a lot quieter.

Define "a lot".  As in, how many dB SPL reduction has that yielded?

Even if you're satisfied with the outcome, this isn't a mod I would recommend anyone else emulating.
 

Offline f1rmb

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 180
  • Country: fr
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2014, 05:46:26 pm »
Hi,

    It's a bit hardcore IMHO  :scared:

Cheers.
---
Daniel
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2014, 08:05:22 pm »
Are all your Rigol scopes too loud?

I have worked with a Rigol DS2102A last week, and could hardly notice it. So that one is quiet.
My understanding is that Rigol DS2072A should be the same, so quiet.

Which scopes do you have? Your photo does not look like a DS1074Z, neither MSO1074Z.
So which one is too loud? The DS1074Z, MSO1074Z or DS207A, or MSO2072A?
 

Offline Mark_O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 937
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2014, 08:45:58 pm »
Define "a lot".  As in, how many dB SPL reduction has that yielded?

I could only make a comparison measurement with the iPad2, DS1000Z and MSO2000A.
Measurements from the front were all the same.
The perceived loudness is better reproduced with a lateral measurement.

Thanks.  That is a substantial improvement.  Comparing (2) and (4), -8 dB average, and -5 dB peak.

(I'm assuming (1) is ambient room level.)
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2014, 12:27:11 pm »
How good is the logic analyzer in the MSO1074Z?

Can anyone out there make a YouTube movie on this? =)

 

Offline josem

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 63
  • Country: gb
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2014, 10:26:13 pm »
Started playing with the I2C triggering/decoding on the MSO2072A (I2C on the LA side) and ran into lots of problems. More than once the MSO completely froze and needed a restart (including unplugging the leads to give me time to reset the triggers, since I had it set to restart to last settings). None of the buttons did anything, full lockup.

Even more crazyness broke out when I started using the zoom function: values didn't update etc.. Reminded me of Dave's review of the DS2072A where the values weren't updating during playback of the waveforms. It is a bit better now, at least there's some scroll, but it's very unreliable and there's a ton of bugs still.

I hope the firmware will improve otherwise the MSO functionality will be not much more than a toy for my purposes and can't be trusted. It's a shame as the combination of scope and logic analyzer with decoding would be fantastic and put it miles ahead of separate instruments for my purposes.
 

Offline Mark_O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 937
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2014, 04:19:06 am »
I hope the firmware will improve otherwise the MSO functionality will be not much more than a toy for my purposes and can't be trusted. It's a shame as the combination of scope and logic analyzer with decoding would be fantastic and put it miles ahead of separate instruments for my purposes.

It's not uncommon for a first release of new software functionality to have some glitches in it.  But I agree that they need to get it corrected quickly.  People aren't paying 50% more than the DS2000, for MSO functionality that doesn't work.   >:(
 

Offline WesleyK

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 18
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2014, 08:04:09 am »
I haven't tested the LA functionality properly yet, but in the few minutes I have played with it I managed to freeze the whole scope. It also makes the scope a bit unresponsive, I hope that also improves. It would suck if I would still need to buy a separate LA after paying over €300 to get it integrated.

Edit: was sleeping
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 08:36:19 am by WesleyK »
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2014, 01:34:01 pm »
What is the performance on the 16 channels of the Logic Analyzer itself? (Sample rate, Memory depth)

Does it outperform or perform less good as the Zeroplus Logic Cube?

Can it decode the protocols on the digital channel side as well?
(Some scopes do protocol decoding on the analog channels).
 

Offline Mark_O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 937
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2014, 08:29:18 pm »
What is the performance on the 16 channels of the Logic Analyzer itself? (Sample rate, Memory depth)

I know this is a radical concept, but have you ever considered looking at a Spec sheet?   :o   ;D

It doesn't take long to find that it's 500 MSa/s, in 16-channel mode.  Twice that with only 8-channels enabled.  Depth is 7/14M normal, and twice that with Optional expansion (on the MSO2000).  [the MSO1000 is 6/12M, and double that, Optionally.  Sample rates are the same as the 2000.]

Quote
Does it outperform or perform less good as the Zeroplus Logic Cube?

Which one?  Last I checked, there were 6 models of the Cube.  And what's your definition of "perform"? 

Max sample rate on the Cubes is 200 MSa/s.  But they can sync to a System Clock, up to 100M (State Mode), and the Rigols can't, at any speed.  That right there could buy you 10x.  They can be had up to 32-bit wide models, but max depth is 2M samples on any model (though they have a Compression mode the Rigols lack, which can vastly exceed the Rigol capacity... runs up to 8M+ samples use only 1 memory slot).  The Cubes have way more protocol decoders, and are extensible, while the Rigols, not.  Rigols are standalone, while the Cube requires a PC.  But the Cube provides way better analysis/display capabilities, and enhanced triggering.  The Rigol is better at real-time probing, while the Cube blows it away for post-mortem exploration.  The Cube models can be had for just over $100, while the LA add-on to the Rigols adds $400 to the 2000 and $250 to the 1000.  Lastly, the Rigols can show you logic signals along-side time-correlated analog signals, and the Cubes can't show analog at all (so if your problem is in the analog domain, you'll never see it).

I have a brain-teaser for you... "Does (a socket wrench) outperform or perform less good as (a crescent wrench)?"

Quote
Can it decode the protocols on the digital channel side as well?
(Some scopes do protocol decoding on the analog channels).

Let me check my crystal ball...  "RTFM says Yes!".   ;)
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2014, 09:09:10 am »
Are there other people out there with practical experience on the Logic Analyzer in the MSO2072A or MSO1074Z series?

Actual YouTube movie is welcome as well of course =)
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1725
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2014, 05:04:31 pm »
I've just ordered an MSO2072A and I'm concerned about a few things:

1. Does the Logic Analyzer work OK? WesleyK seems to say his locks up?
2. To do the JTAG sniffing, what JTAG interface to I need?  There's an Olimex ARM-USB-OCD and an ARM-USB-OCD-H - I don't understand what the difference is between these 2?

Thanks
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline Macman

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: gb
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2014, 11:33:03 pm »

1. Does the Logic Analyzer work OK? WesleyK seems to say his locks up?
2. To do the JTAG sniffing, what JTAG interface to I need?  There's an Olimex ARM-USB-OCD and an ARM-USB-OCD-H - I don't understand what the difference is between these 2?


I've had a MSO2072A for a few weeks. I've had it lock up a few times but not while using the logic analyser.
Tonight I had a play with the RS232 decode which mostly worked OK. One problem I did find was that the memory depth had to be left in 'Auto' otherwise the decode didn't work correctly. Also if the time-base is set to a large value and you then zoom in the decode fails even though there look enough resolution in the data.

I used a cheapo £4 USB blaster from ebay to dump the memory for the hack.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1725
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2014, 09:30:18 am »
I've had a MSO2072A for a few weeks. I've had it lock up a few times but not while using the logic analyser.
Tonight I had a play with the RS232 decode which mostly worked OK. One problem I did find was that the memory depth had to be left in 'Auto' otherwise the decode didn't work correctly. Also if the time-base is set to a large value and you then zoom in the decode fails even though there look enough resolution in the data.

I used a cheapo £4 USB blaster from ebay to dump the memory for the hack.
The lock ups are not good but, using the JTAG route to get the upgrade keys, it should be good to apply future firmware upgrades as they come out.  I think that setting a large time base could prevent decoding at zoom because, eventually, you would not have enough resolution to track the timing of the 1's and 0's.

I see MANY USB blasters on eBay, please confirm the one you bought was the Altera kind?  Those are sold by Mouser for $300 but a Google search reveals the schematic and it's nothing more than an FTDI USB chip, a buffer IC, and a couple of discretes.

I'd like to know the steps to use Windows to do the JTAG dump, I've followed the instructions on page 163 of the Mega-Thread and have down loaded blackfin-toolchain-win32-2014R1.exe, questions....

1.  Is this the right file?
2. Will it install on Win 7 64 bit?
3. When I run it, what are the steps? The instructions say something about having 2 CMD windows open at once?

Thanks for any help, I will share my experiences.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline Macman

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: gb
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2014, 11:09:48 am »
I did the memory dump under Linux because that was what was shown in the tutorial post (page 163 of the sniffing the I2C bus thread) and also I saw some reports of people having problems using Windows to do the dump. I have had no prior experience of Linux but did not find it too difficult.

I used 'Universal USB Installer' (UUI) to make a boot USB pen drive. XUBUNTU was selected for the distribution and I set a reasonable value for the persistent file size. The blackfin tool chain file I used was blackfin-toolchain-2013R1_45-RC1.i386.tar.bz2.
In order to boot from the USB stick I had to change the BIOS boot mode setting on my laptop to CSM.

The link to USB Blaster I used is USB Blaster.This uses a Silabs F321 and a 74LCV125 chip.
When the dump starts the scope will become unresponsive.
It took about three hours to get the dump but it may have been slowed down by running from USB stick.
There are two bits of software you have to run at the same time, a proxy application that works as a server and the client application. To open the terminal windows I just navigated in the file explorer to the directory and right clicked on the directory and selected open terminal here. You will need to read  page 163 of the sniffing the I2C bus thread to get the details of the commands.

While the dump is taking place you will see a log as each section of the memory is dumped.
The resulting .bin file that is stored in the home directory was then copied on to another USB stick.

Using a Windows PC copy the dump file to the rigup directory and use the rigup program: rigup ds2072a DumpFile.bin (replace Dumpfile.bin with the name of the file you used).
The rigup program will now give you the keys you need.
The following shows the use of rigup:

rigup ds2072a DumpFile.bin
rigup ds2072a - Version 0.4

Serial number: DS2F162XXXXXX

NSEH:  XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX    All options, no bandwidth upgrade
NSER:  XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX    All options, bandwidth 100 MHz
NSEQ:  XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX    All options, bandwidth 200 MHz
NS8H:  XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX    All options, bandwidth 300 MHz


I then install the key directly from the scope by selecting utility - Option -Setup - Editor ON

When opening you scope you can avoid damaging the warranty stick if you follow mikeselectricstuff http://youtu.be/KGcNS5g9ygg?list=UUcs0ZkP_as4PpHDhFcmCHyA method and use a piece of label backing to gently remove and protect the sticker. 
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 11:13:55 am by Macman »
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1725
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2014, 11:50:29 am »
Neato!  Thanks Macman  :-+
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2014, 01:22:23 pm »
Isn't there any special "mini" firmware, that you could install on the scope (through a USB stick) to read out the keys and dump them on the screen?

After you can put back the normal firmware. That would be the most easy process to get the keys WITHOUT opening the scope.

Are the software images encrypted, or can any one make his own binary compatible SW image for the scope?
 

Offline AntiCat

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2014, 09:24:55 pm »
NSEH:  XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX    All options, no bandwidth upgrade
NSER:  XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX    All options, bandwidth 100 MHz
NSEQ:  XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX    All options, bandwidth 200 MHz
NS8H:  XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX-XXXXXXX    All options, bandwidth 300 MHz

I then install the key directly from the scope by selecting utility - Option -Setup - Editor ON

Sorry for asking a dump question in my very first post. Did you just enable options?
Or were you able to change the bandwidth of the scope?
 

Offline Macman

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: gb
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #49 on: August 13, 2014, 01:09:22 am »
Sorry for asking a dump question in my very first post. Did you just enable options?
Or were you able to change the bandwidth of the scope?

I used the NSEQ key which gave all the options and changed to bandwidth of the scope from 70Mhz to 200Mhz.  I didn't go for 300Mhz because like others here have said, 300Mhz would be pushing it a bit with a 2/1Ghz sample rate.

On subsequently testing the scope's bandwidth it was confirmed to be well over 200Mhz.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 01:11:23 am by Macman »
 

Offline AntiCat

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 12
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2014, 10:12:21 am »
I used the NSEQ key which gave all the options and changed to bandwidth of the scope from 70Mhz to 200Mhz.  I didn't go for 300Mhz because like others here have said, 300Mhz would be pushing it a bit with a 2/1Ghz sample rate.

Thx for the quick response. I saw the overshoot at 300MHz in the other (long) thread. I just had a hard time believing that the bandwidth is based on the serial number - like one of the options.
 

Offline Perry

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2014, 06:30:39 pm »
Max sample rate on the Cubes is 200 MSa/s.  But they can sync to a System Clock, up to 100M (State Mode), and the Rigols can't, at any speed.  That right there could buy you 10x.  They can be had up to 32-bit wide models, but max depth is 2M samples on any model (though they have a Compression mode the Rigols lack, which can vastly exceed the Rigol capacity... runs up to 8M+ samples use only 1 memory slot).  The Cubes have way more protocol decoders, and are extensible, while the Rigols, not.  Rigols are standalone, while the Cube requires a PC.  But the Cube provides way better analysis/display capabilities, and enhanced triggering.  The Rigol is better at real-time probing, while the Cube blows it away for post-mortem exploration.  The Cube models can be had for just over $100, while the LA add-on to the Rigols adds $400 to the 2000 and $250 to the 1000.  Lastly, the Rigols can show you logic signals along-side time-correlated analog signals, and the Cubes can't show analog at all (so if your problem is in the analog domain, you'll never see it).
Besides being able to show the signals on the same screen and record them together in the scope (and doing away with the PC requirement), if you have the logic cube and a 2 channel oscilloscope, is there anything you'd be missing by getting separate instruments instead of the integrated unit?  If you want to see an analog waveform time correlated with the digital signals seen by the logic analyzer you can probe the analog signal and one of the digital lines to give you a common time reference between the logic cube and the scope.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2014, 11:00:34 am »
Any more experiences on the Logic Analyzer from users out there with an MSO1074A or an MSO2072A?

You are more than welcome to share here!
 

Offline Mark_O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 937
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2014, 07:28:51 pm »
Hey, Perry.  My apologies on not responding to your followup questions.  I missed them.

Max sample rate on the Cubes is 200 MSa/s.  But they can sync to a System Clock, up to 100M (State Mode), and the Rigols can't, at any speed.  That right there could buy you 10x.  They can be had up to 32-bit wide models, but max depth is 2M samples on any model (though they have a Compression mode the Rigols lack, which can vastly exceed the Rigol capacity... runs up to 8M+ samples use only 1 memory slot).  The Cubes have way more protocol decoders, and are extensible, while the Rigols, not.  Rigols are standalone, while the Cube requires a PC.  But the Cube provides way better analysis/display capabilities, and enhanced triggering.  The Rigol is better at real-time probing, while the Cube blows it away for post-mortem exploration.  The Cube models can be had for just over $100, while the LA add-on to the Rigols adds $400 to the 2000 and $250 to the 1000.  Lastly, the Rigols can show you logic signals along-side time-correlated analog signals, and the Cubes can't show analog at all (so if your problem is in the analog domain, you'll never see it).
Besides being able to show the signals on the same screen and record them together in the scope (and doing away with the PC requirement), if you have the logic cube and a 2 channel oscilloscope, is there anything you'd be missing by getting separate instruments instead of the integrated unit?  If you want to see an analog waveform time correlated with the digital signals seen by the logic analyzer you can probe the analog signal and one of the digital lines to give you a common time reference between the logic cube and the scope.

No, I don't think you're really missing anything more than what you have enumerated.  For some people, those things may be quite important.  For others, the benefits of separates far outweigh the limitations. 

For example, I know that when working with protocol decoding, many working on embedded systems simply use the analog channels to do a preliminary check.  I.e., to ensure that there are no obvious data-corruption issues due to noise, glitches, threshold shifts, etc.  Once that has been confirmed, they shift to the logic domain, and use the tools most appropriate for that task.  Once a specific issue has been located, if there is any concern it may be analog in nature, the analog scope can be used for a spot check, and triggered from the LA output.

I don't think anyone would tell you that the LA's built into any of the Rigol MSOs are the best or most powerful tools possible.  They simply don't have the same sophistication of triggering capabilities, or diversity of protocol decoders that some separate analyzers do.  But they are convenient to hook up and use, and do an effective job when the situation isn't overly complex.  Sometimes it will be all you will need, and be quicker than breaking out another test device, and configuring it for capture/analysis.  But for those times they're not adequate, then you're back to not having the right tool for the job.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2014, 10:06:54 pm »
Who is going to review the LA part in details on those scopes and compare relatively?
(Rigol MSO2072A versus Rigol MSO1074Z)
 

Offline Mark_O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 937
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2014, 01:35:42 am »
Who is going to review the LA part in details on those scopes and compare relatively?
(Rigol MSO2072A versus Rigol MSO1074Z)

I already did an extensive and detailed comparison of those two LA's.  You just can't be bothered to look for it.

[another Notification to shut off.]
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2014, 02:02:32 pm »
I haven't seen any detailed review on the LA part.
Many useless pictures on bandwidth measurements, but that's on the analog part.
 

Offline pa3bca

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 135
  • Country: nl
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2014, 03:30:51 pm »
I haven't seen any detailed review on the LA part.
Many useless pictures on bandwidth measurements, but that's on the analog part.
Yes, useless to those who - not owning a scope themselves - have now for more than a year been demanding others to provide all sort of information and demanding them to do experiments, start forum topics on whatever...
And to what end one may wonder....
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 03:32:28 pm by pa3bca »
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #58 on: October 26, 2014, 03:44:21 pm »
As I wrote in another posting I will buy it in November. Have to wait on approval of governmental funding project.
 

Offline marmad

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2979
  • Country: aq
    • DaysAlive
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2014, 05:55:49 pm »
As I wrote in another posting I will buy it in November. Have to wait on approval of governmental funding project.

The problem is, as pointed out before, you've already said you were about to buy a DSO within a couple of weeks/months a few times already. Do you know the story of the boy that cried wolf? At this point, I think it would be wise to refrain from asking for much more information until you actually buy your DSO; you might want some help once you have it - and you don't want to have used up the good will of the community here.  :)
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2014, 06:28:59 pm »
I fully understand your remarks and concerns.

Thanks for the advice! I will no longer post anything until I have my scope.

Appreciate if the community gives me a second chance, and that we can start with a clean sheet, once I have my scope :)
 

Offline Mark_O

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 937
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2014, 06:33:53 pm »
I haven't seen any detailed review on the LA part.

As I said already, you haven't seen it because you haven't looked for it.  Other than perhaps in the two threads on the topic that you yourself started.

Now, I'm not as clever as you are, to ask questions about Rigol's current MSO's buried in a thread about the DS1052D, as you did.  So my comments were posted in a thread comparing the MSO2072 and MSO1074.  Yes, shocking I admit.  And if you did a search, you'd find there were 5 threads on the subject, and it was the 2nd one.

Of course, you have to know what to search for, and it can be confusing to select search terms.  The interest was in comparing the MSO2000 series with the MSO1000z series, and if you put specific model numbers in there, you may come up empty (unless you just got lucky and matched by accident).  So I'll let you in on a little secret about searching that I picked up many years ago, after trying extensively for several minutes.  "If your search comes up empty, try something less specific."  You only need to get specific if the hit count is high, and you need to narrow things down.  In this case, "MSO20 MSO10", or even "MSO2 MSO1" would do the trick.

And no, I'm not going to hand you the link on a silver platter.  You'll have to expend all the effort to go to the top, enter 9 characters, and click the Search button.  Then click the 2nd thread in the list, and read down until you find the details.

Quote
Many useless pictures on bandwidth measurements, but that's on the analog part.

Wow.  Seriously dude?  Dissing the work of others, when you haven't ever contributed any of your own?  :wtf:  :--

You make me wish there was an "Ignore this person" option in these Forums, but you can safely conclude this will be the last response you will ever get from me.  You're the only person I've ever run across here that annoyed me so much by their sheer arrogance and laziness that I was tempted to say something unprofessional, that would probably get me banned.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2014, 06:52:22 pm »
I apologize for my comment. Did not mean it like that. Sorry.
Should have written "Many pictures on bandwidth measurements, but that's on the analog part." :)

Actually have no interest anymore in reading your LA comparison after your uncivilized remark.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 08:00:28 pm by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline pa3bca

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 135
  • Country: nl
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2014, 08:13:24 pm »
Actually have no interest anymore in reading your LA comparison after your uncivilized remark.
So you're passing up on an opportunity to learn something valuable (and you did ask for the info) because you feel the author wasn't nice enough to you?
Now there is an Ad Hominem...
 

Offline miguelvp

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5550
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2014, 09:01:36 pm »
There is no proof or evidence that the LA review has been performed by a person with the right credentials and academic background.. so no.. thanks.. I skip this one.

And you only have a Masters that you haven't used in a while, just imagine you had a PhD I don't think anyone could tolerate you then :)

You think you are not insulting people but we are not stupid and we know when some academic down talk to us because you are not as clever as you think you are.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1523
  • Country: no
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2014, 09:08:52 pm »
This forum should also be accessible for dummies.

I consider myself as a dummy when it comes up to test equipment. But I don't consider myself as lazy.
And I waited with buying the scope, as I had another analog scope available.

But if people ask questions here, which indeed might be stupid, there should be respect.
Some die hards out there, want to show off with their complex posting entries.
I don't understand what they gain with this honestly.
 

Offline pa3bca

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 135
  • Country: nl
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2014, 09:24:35 pm »
This forum should also be accessible for dummies.
Hey, the universe (and this forum) owes you nothing.
But apart from that, if you look and read carefully you will see that these fora are very accessible also to young players. Almost all questions (however often these may be repeat questions or simple for experienced members) are answered extensively.
But there are limits, and your track record shows you dangerously close to the edge imo...
Quote
But if people ask questions here, which indeed might be stupid, there should be respect.
Some die hards out there, want to show off with their complex posting entries.
I don't understand what they gain with this honestly.
Really? So if a post does not interest you or is not immediately understood by you you conclude that the authors are just showing off?
Sorry dude, but these fora are not solely here to serve you.

 

Offline smgvbest

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
  • Country: us
    • Kilbourne Astronomics
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2014, 09:04:52 am »
Hi
For my very first post on this forum.  I have read through this and other threads on the MSO1074Z-S which I am planning to purchase by the the end of November.  I've wanted and needed a DSO Scope, Waveform Generator and Logic Analyzer for some time and priced out purchasing separate pieces vs the all-in-one solution like the MSO1074Z-S and it just seems this is the lower cost option and I've not seen many complaints on the Rigol Equipment.

My question is around the hacking/moding the MSO1074Z-S.
I've seen allot of comments about moding the MSO2072A using JTAG and blackfin but nothing I could find on the MSO1074Z-S. 
Has anyone yet to hack one successfully and if so what was used?

I've seen the one for the DS1054Z and as I understand the MSO is the same basic scope with the LA installed/enabled so I wonder if the same utility will work as shown on the youtube video http://tinyurl.com/l7xq7zb

I appreciate an information or comments on the topic and TIA
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 

Offline msraya

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 106
  • Country: es
  • EA7EE
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2014, 07:15:25 pm »
Hello smgvbest!

I own a MSO1074Z-S, I have used the oscilloscope for one week only. I've only been able to test it in daily use with sinusoidal signals, the FFT is somewhat vague (it gets input from screen, no memory), but have dBV scale and is enough for simple tests. I tested the logic analyzer and somewhat the signal generator. The autocalibration of channels is a very slow process, about 20 minutes.

This model with the latest version of firmware is not public hackable to my knowledge, some users have reported hacking it, but they have not put the info for it anywhere. Surely it will be hackable in the future. I do not want to break the "void warranty" sticker. :-DD   However, the oscilloscope without hacking meets my expectations and I do not need to pay for any additional option for common use.  :phew:

The LA works fine with no problem, only several times slow than Agilent equivalent but nothing unexpected or that makes it unusable. The LA POD is warmer to touch. The decoding is useless (made in software, not hardware), maybe the serial RS232 decoding was useful, but it is very slow and It can slow down the oscilloscope UI, block the scope and force your to recycle power.  :--

The signal generator is a bit awkward to use, because it has not dedicated knobs, but not impossible to use. It has No input modulation (but AM/FM internal low frequency modulation), no external trigger input, no trigger output (but You can use second channel for it), no external source of time base. Very limiting, but useful for some tests.

I go to coding a MATLAB Frequency Analyzer thru SCPI programing via Ethernet (I made it time ago with Series 6000 Agilent scopes, and Agilent Arb signal generators), using the generator and the oscilloscope itself. I hope I do not have programming problems... I will see..

In short, a compact and affordable oscilloscope for less than 1000 euros.  :-+
I also will go for the DSA815TG when I have the cash  :=\

Regards
Manuel
« Last Edit: November 09, 2014, 07:33:32 pm by msraya »
 

Offline smgvbest

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
  • Country: us
    • Kilbourne Astronomics
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2014, 09:02:19 am »
Hi msraya,

Thank you for your post.   That was very helpful and I have ordered my MS01074Z-S and it should be here Thursday. Can't wait to explorer what I can do with and will keep in mind the limits you mention.  I love my analog scope (a Tek 2467B) and this one will make a nice addition.

I've also been reading allot more of the post around here on hacking the Rigol scopes and certainly agree with the concept of keeping thing quite and not rocking the boat.   Personally I think Rigol will do great if they continue to put only minor effort into patching the holes.  That shows (even if half hearted that Rigols wants to fix it to the corporate customers while still allowing hobbyist and others on limited budgets to get more (or at least feel like we are) by being able to hack our scopes. As long as Marketing and Lawyers stay out the world is good.  soon as they get involved it goes to S^&(.



Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 

Offline msraya

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 106
  • Country: es
  • EA7EE
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2014, 01:19:21 pm »
Hello smgvbest!

Yes I also agree with you that they are interesting to have in the shack. Undoubtedly, knowing its limitations they are more bang for the buck.
But unfortunately it is not possible to hack the new MSO1074-S units.  :(

I go for the DSA-815-TG, but unfortunately it is backorder at BATRONIX and I will wait minimum to the December 5th, to ship the SA to me.
The new SA from RIGOL is also impossible to hack. They changed bootloader for no downgrade.  :(

I think You are wrong about hacking, RIGOL does not promote hacking in any way as they are updating their firmware for stopping hacking.
What has happened to their scopes have been just another more bug.

It is interesting that if RIGOL answer to the bugs with good firmware updates they can absorb not only the hobby market as you claim but also the maintenance, repair and low-end R&D markets that were previously only taken over by other more known suppliers.
RIGOL fame precedes it for better and for worse.

Regards
Manuel
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 01:22:37 pm by msraya »
 

Offline smgvbest

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
  • Country: us
    • Kilbourne Astronomics
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2014, 02:57:19 pm »
Hi msraya,

One of the discussions I saw for the DS1000Z line which from what I saw is the same board as a MSO1000Z line was not around the same hack as the DS2000 Line but that someone (sorry do not remember the name) looked at how they generated the keys and created a key generator for the DS1000Z and others.   Since this one was not based on it being blackfin based and unless the changed the crypto part of the license generation which would need they would also have to different processes for older users who are not at the current software levels( i guess since it's based on serial  all they would need to do is ask for what level software you're at then force you to the latests when you apply the licenses).   Sorry I tend to have random thoughts while typing.

As for Rigol,   I did not intend my comment to indicate what they are doing but what I would hope they would do.   I would love to see a large company realize they can leverage hackers instead of thinking of them as an enemy like Apple does (which amazes me since apple was created by hackers).   If they would realize how many customers they could have and reputation they would generate instead of listening to lawyers they almost could have the cake and eat it too.  IMHO.
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 

Offline smgvbest

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
  • Country: us
    • Kilbourne Astronomics
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #72 on: November 19, 2014, 03:02:35 pm »
Got to love UPS,   My scope is sitting at the local office since 8am this morning.   but not scheduled for delivery until tomorrow.  What do they do.  leave it sitting there for 24 hrs,  |O.   And since it's not had a delivery attempt I can not pick it up yet. :palm:
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 

Offline nixfu

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 344
  • Country: us
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #73 on: November 20, 2014, 07:52:26 am »
>local office since 8am this morning

That means they unloaded it off the tractor trailer AFTER the package car driver had already left for the day to make deliveries.
 

Offline smgvbest

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 623
  • Country: us
    • Kilbourne Astronomics
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2014, 08:27:24 pm »
I would buy that if not for in the past packages have sat and waited for days to be delivered by UPS.  They will not deliver early.  Have never seen that happen. 

Any way received the scope and and very happy with it. 
Same board version and software version as has already been reported and has the same triggering issue and 5us delay issue as reported already. 

Hopefully someone will figure our how to generate licenses without needing to open it up and use JTAG. 
Sandra
(Yes, I am a Woman :p )
 

Offline marmad

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2979
  • Country: aq
    • DaysAlive
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #75 on: November 25, 2014, 10:26:42 am »
Started testing the MSO1074Z today. First thing I tried was seeing if Frame recording captured the Digital channels (it does) - and whether it could decode the Frames while playing them back (it can't). It appears you can't turn on Decode while in Frame playback - and you can't turn on Record if you have Decode turned on.

One neat feature I did discover (which I don't believe is available on the MSO2000 series) is Plot. When selected, the "change trend of the bus data will be displayed in vector mode" (as the Manual puts it):

 

Offline msraya

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 106
  • Country: es
  • EA7EE
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #76 on: November 25, 2014, 05:44:35 pm »

Wow, I not tried Parallel decoding yet.  :clap:
It seems to me that this way I can plot the output of an ADC very easily..

Interesting.
Thank You!
Manuel
 

Offline Teneyes

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 497
  • Country: ca
Re: First impressions on Rigol MSO1074Z and Rigol MSO2072A
« Reply #77 on: November 30, 2014, 11:45:30 pm »
Just a Note to show Displaying of 2 frequencies with delayed triggering

Note , Select SourceA or SourceB in order to adjust Trigger level for each Chan
IiIiIiIiIi  --  curiosity killed the cat but, satisfaction brought it back
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf