Failed firmware update on U1273A and Agilent's Response

[zaoka]

Thats Agilent, nothing new to me.

They only invest money into top salesman and marketing experts. If you carefully read their material you will find that they have "AMAZING" tech support. They are "AMAZING" only in following support scripts which are unknown to the end user until you run into something like this.

And its not only for $400 meters, I complained about U3401A diode problem, they told me to return meter to the store and get new. I told them that meter is not new to return and their answer was SORRY ABOUT THAT, nothing we can do 

[Bored@Work]

Sounds like a rather good plan to take away market shares from Fluke - not.

[IanB]

Agilent    ...

Thank you for making this known. I will be sure to avoid Agilent when considering any future purchases of test equipment.

[tautech]

Agilent    ...

Thank you for making this known. I will be sure to avoid Agilent when considering any future purchases of test equipment.

+1
They have had more than $400 worth of bad press here !

[CosPhi]

When we are talking about bad points of Agilent meters.... I have an U1272A with the firmware version 2.04 (the latest)

By using "Scale" to switch the display to Amps (for use with a current clamp), it is not possible to measure the peak. Just Min/Max/Avg work, but not peak.

The Amps jack is very "sensitive" to sense something plugged into it. If it is just a little bit dirty it's not possible to use the meter because it just beebs and blinks. When you are out in the field that's really annoying (and embarrassing too). Usually it's not just done with blow a little bit in the Amp jack. You really have to go in the Amp jack with something small and sharp to clean the two crack's in the jack very well.
Of course it's "a bit" dirty on work because of steel industry but I never ever had something like that with any of our Flukes.

martin

[c4757p]

Agilent    ...

Thank you for making this known. I will be sure to avoid Agilent when considering any future purchases of test equipment.

+1

What a shifty, shady, lazy, cheap-ass way to handle this. They broke your meter with their software - that should be beyond warranty expiration quibbles, they fucking broke it. A company like Agilent should be able to figure out how to write firmware that can get through an interrupted upload without shitting itself, and really ought to have the balls to own up to their mistake when they fail to do that.

Agilent 

[linux-works]

I toyed with buying the agilent oled handheld model (even though dave gave it, mostly, a thumbs down in his video review) but now, I won't touch a new agilent bit of gear if I have to buy it for home use.

its one thing if its not cost effective for us to fix things; but its quite another if the vendor thinks its not cost effective, too!

[linux-works]

maybe for the lower end 'commodity products', these could be outsourced.  in which case, they would likely be designed NOT to be 'supported' and really could be designed from the start as throw-aways.

designing a firmware upgrade process is not rocket science anymore.  no engineering-oriented company should get a free pass if a firmware upgrade bricks the device.  that's fine for 1hl companies but for agilent?  wow.  beyond inexcusable.  for $400, I would think dual flash banks would be a GIVEN!

or, at least, buffer the firmware in ram and only commit it if it passes crc.

[Zbig]

Wow, what a bunch of arrogant assholes Well, at least I'm no longer weighing between getting an Agilent or Hameg bench meter. In this day and age (social media, etc.), what this guy replied to you seems almost suicidal-kind-of-retarded.

[linux-works]

we really do need a 2nd confirmation before we march to agilent HQ with pitchforks, torches and bulk-erasers

[Wytnucls]

Had the same experience with Sony years ago, with a BIOS flash on a newish Vaio laptop ($1,800) that never completed properly. Sony advised that the only fix available was to install a new motherboard ($1,200). Bought a new laptop instead, with a note to self, never to attempt a software upgrade again.

[linux-works]

sony is a very shitty company, though.  everyone I know boycotts sony (for tons of reasons).

we expect sony (their consumer division, at least) to be assholes.  we don't expect agilent to be.

[XOIIO]

Had the same experience with Sony years ago, with a BIOS flash on a newish Vaio laptop ($1,800) that never completed properly. Sony advised that the only fix available was to install a new motherboard ($1,200). Bought a new laptop instead, with a note to self, never to attempt a software upgrade again.

No replacements on ebay? Even pretty new laptops have some for a couple hundred.

[Wytnucls]

Not that I can recall. eBay was not really an option at the time anyway and laptop models differed from one region to another.

[VK5RC]

I too don't understand Agilent's response,  the meter is bricked not the accessory,  the software may also be faulty!
This is not typical of Agilent,  some years ago I  was actually given a small part needed to repair a medical item,  as quite sensibly the fellow said "it would cost more to invoice me than the part was worth".

[staxquad]

sony is a very shitty company, though.  everyone I know boycotts sony (for tons of reasons).

we expect sony (their consumer division, at least) to be assholes.  we don't expect agilent to be.

I have a Sony NEX 5N camera that jammed, was unusable, and I flashed a firmware upgrade, from ver. 1.1 to 1.2, to revive it, been working perfectly since.  (the reverse of a product that works and a firmware flash bricks it)

[amyk]

Unless there is something physically damaged, it is not really "bricked". It saddens and irritates me to think of how many devices are needlessly thrown away because their firmware got corrupted, when a few minutes with a simple programmer would've probably been enough to fix them.

You can reflash a motherboard BIOS with nothing more than a few wires and a parallel port. Any other serially writable memory too. MCUs are included, of course.

The seeming lack of recovery is a little disturbing. E.g. my Android phone has a bootloader in ROM that goes to a special USB mode if you cold-boot it with one of the keys held down. Even the cheap Chinese MP3 players I've played around with have a basic recovery program in their boot ROM.

Since Agilent doesn't seem to care, how about we figure out how to unbrick OP's meter. Hack the bloody thing wide open! I don't have a U1273A myself but if I did I would probably help out with this more. What's the update protocol? Does it have a special "recovery mode" (tried holding down keys at startup)? If it's a USB device, does it still get detected?

[BravoV]

Even though its a known problem, yes, it sucks, but just read the Fluke DMM owners experiences regarding their support -> Fluke DMM leaky caps, Agilent DMM suport policy simply not in the same league as Fluke.

[echen1024]

I have had nothing but good experiences with Agilent service, but this is very, very disturbing. A supposedly top-notch company that most of the forum trusts, refusing their warranty?  I understand that the meter is considered "disposable" in the sense that most hardware faults are BER, but software very, very rarely bricks an item to the point of BER. Shame on you, Agilent.

[Rick Law]

-or-

May be it is just a bad customer rep the OP happened to contact?  Perhaps?  We hope?

Try getting to someone with authority to make something happen - like talking to the supervisor.  Any company can end up with a less than perfect customer service rep.  Let's hope this is not Aligent being unresponsive but instead a one-off bad customer service agent...

[Richard Crowley]

I have a Sony NEX 5N camera that jammed, was unusable, and I flashed a firmware upgrade, from ver. 1.1 to 1.2, to revive it, been working perfectly since.  (the reverse of a product that works and a firmware flash bricks it)

Good to know.  I have four of those cameras.  I re-flashed my EX1 camera with great trepidation, but I haven't attempted to do anything with my NX5s.

[grumpydoc]

In the general case I've updated firmware on cameras, motherboards, TVs and plenty of other gadgets with no problems.

But shit happens - it could just as easily been a power cut as a software crash and occasionally firmware gets corrupted.

But it's not exactly rocket science to have a checksum on the main image and a bootloader capable of checking that it is valid and re-flashing a new image if not.

To the OP - have you tried reflashing the meter (apologies if you said that you did but haven't got time to re-read all the posts).

[electr_peter]

To my way of thinking the risk/benefit is strongly negative:
RISK: A "bricked" multi-$100 piece of gear, and then having to deal with an intransigent, faceless, soul-less multi-national corp. (Witness the OP's account.)   
BENEFIT: Fixing some problem that doesn't affect me, or adding some feature I don't use or need.

I happen to agree with Richard on updating issue - update risk is almost always much greater than potential benefit.

What could you gain with a firmware/software update?
   1) some bragging rights (I think this is a main motivator for some folks, I don't care)
   2) bug fixes
   3) additional features
   4) better performance (faster/less power - yes, this sometimes happen)
What could you lose with a firmware/software update? What could go wrong?
   1) lose time - it depends, sometimes it is very messy and time consuming. Include time of non functioning device.
   2) lose money - sometimes you need to buy new device.
   3) lose nerves and sanity - most of the cases, of course.
   4) device doesn't work at all (complete bricking)
   5) device doesn't work at all but is fixable to a known state (complete bricking with a sign of hope)
   6) device lose compatibility with your PC (yes, this happened several times to me with USB WiMax sticks. Works fine till update then just crashes. Do you want to risk losing the internet?)
   7) device works worse (less features) but cannot be downgraded to older version
   8 ) device works worse (less features) but can be downgraded to older version
   9) device works the same but cannot be downgraded to older version  - why? This is annoying.

Personally, I take SW/FW updates seriously and use this approach to limit the risk:
1) for serious equipment (big $ or that is critical for everyday business) I try no to update it. Unless update offer some very important functionality or bug fixes.
2) for semi-serious equipment (mid $, rarely used, not that critical) I try to ensure in advance that update is OK - by looking for other users experience with new update. Don't rush update, there will be less tears in the long run.
3) for cheap/don't care equipment, some SW drivers I update them regularly because I KNOW that screwing up update doesn't have serious consequences. I like to keep my PC compatible with newest flash/video/etc. drivers and codecs.

If the equipment works well, why do you want to risk that? Think about reliability for a sec.
I am not against updating in general, but I think that you have to consider the risk each time for specific case. YMMV of course.

[jpb]

The main thing that I update firmware on is my computer workstation (i.e. the bios and that of various peripheral cards such as a USB3 one).

I do this despite the risks and even if the listed bug fixes don't look significant because I have a vague hope that this will keep things up-to-date and playing nicely with new software and peripherals. Also I wonder if some bugs are fixed without being officially listed - i.e. bugs that the manufacturer finds but have not yet been reported so they fix them on the quiet. (Perhaps I'm a little cynical.)

In the pc world now motherboard manufacturers often provide a backup system or dual bios so if your bios update goes wrong you can restore it from the backup on the board. Given the cost of Agilent gear you'd think they could do the same or at least have the option to restore it externally.

On the other hand, on my Mac Pro at work I am very reluctant to update the OS unless I really have to - I'd kept it the same for four years but recently had to update (though not to the latest) to get Maple 18 to run.

[London Lad]

The product has failed while under warranty. The rest is of no consequence. How Agilent fix or replace it is their problem.

Write to the CEO of Agilent in the US, a letter not an email, addressed to him / her by name and post it by recorded delivery or whatever is the equivalent in your country.

Be polite, state the facts, mention the surprise and outrage of members here and I am sure you will have a new meter in no time.