Failed firmware update on U1273A and Agilent's Response

[Rick Law]

The three numbers are for Math, Reading, and Science

Wouldn't the language parts be for a particular country's national language though, rather than English for all nations?

Might explain whey their scores are higher, as well as why things such as manuals are so poorly written in English.

Unless there is any change in the last 5-6 years, it would be reading comprehension in their native language and not in English.

However, if I recall the stats from about 5 years ago (The Economist year end world review, they use to send out stats and comments).  China spend more $ learning English than the rest of the world combined.

More worrisome is, Chinese PhD's used to try to stay in this country to make a living here.  Now they are running home the moment they are done with their education.  We lost our luster.

[Kappes Buur]

http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5990-6425EN.pdf

On the bottom of page 7 it clearly states that the warranty period is 3 years.

However, dealing with a business in Asia could easily mean that they are not an authorized Agilent dealer.

Yet, wherever the meter was purchased (even with original or transferred warranty), applying an official update which bricks the meter is definitely something that should concern Agilent. Their software should indeed not be causing any problem.

After reading TimothySwieter's story, I will stay away from Agilent products.
All I can say is, unacceptable.

[edit]
http://www.agilent.com/about/companyinfo/company-separation.html
This makes me think that the Electronic Measurement Group is now wholly a chinese endeavour, no more Made in USA.

[TimothySwieter]

Last night I made contact with Oliver, the individual that runs Agilent's Ebay store from which I have bought equipment in the past.  Note that this meter purchase was not though that store, but like someone pointed out, he has an interest to keep me happy so I keep buying from him.  I gave him some details of my case, but I have not heard back yet.  I'll give it a day or two before I write the CEO and try other routes.

The representative that I have traded e-mails with is either in Hong Kong or China.  I don't mind the english, I guess I don't even see that having been in Asia for 7 years as it is just part of life.  I do try to get clarification on things if the translation doesn't look good.  I am so appreciative of those that do speak English and Chinese, I'd be lost in Asia without it. 

I've attached some images of the e-mail exchanges.  This is truly Agilent's team responding.  I am still hoping for a positive outcome, and I appreciate the support.  My desires continue to be an reasonable, inexpensive fix for my meter, and Agilent recognizing their products should be more robust on firmware upgrades.

-Tim

[dannyf]

I've attached some images of the e-mail exchanges.

That truly looks like agilent email. Wow, that's how much self-respect they have for their own products?

Amazing that they have sunk this low.

[dannyf]

before we Americans get too full of ourselves thinking these folks from China can't even talk....

Let me be the first to say that we overspend and underinvest, severely if I may add, in education. Our politicians have sold their souls and our kids to the teacher's unions. Poor education really is the beginning of the demise of America.

With that said, I would argue that comparing the US vs. Shanghai is grossly unfair, and the scoring system is grossly unfair. A more fair comparison would be comparing Cambridge, MA, or Wellesley, MA to Shanghai. or Choate to Shanghai.

As to the scoring system, if you are to pick a given number of participants in an exam, an entity (be it a country or a city) with a larger population has an advantage, everything else being equal.

[amyk]

slightly OT, but about 20 yrs ago, I was ok buying sony gear and when I needed to do a repair or even upgrade (base models often were the same as higher end models, just depopulated on the pcb), I would call sony, ask for the repair manual and pay $10 or so for it.  easy as can be!  full color schematics, multipage, good quality.  that was back when sony still was a reasonable company (before the war on the consumer and the rootkit BS).  its very possible they stopped selling schematics to end users but they used to have no problem sending you parts and service guides for affordable prices.

Ditto for when it was still called HP and not Agilent. Look at the service manuals for the older oscilloscopes/power supplies/etc.

[poorchava]

Agilent's gonna lose the entire low-end market to companies like UNI-T,Rigol or Brymen with such approach. Neither of those 3 gives you any sort or real warranty, but IMO it's better than paying premium and still not getting any real warranty. Shame on Agilent 

[sacherjj]

OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) tests member nations regularly.  This is our OECD-PISA test rankings:  (The three numbers are for Math, Reading, and Science)

USA  481 (rank #36) 489 (rank #24) 497 (rank #28)
UK  494 (rank #26) 499 (rank #23) 514 (rank #20)
... ...
Hong Kong, China 561 (rank #3rd) 545 (rank #2nd) 555 (rank #2)
Shanghai, China 613 (rank 1st)  570 (rank 1st) 580 (rank 1st)

As with all statistics, this is biased.  We take ALL of the US, including poor educated areas and highly educated areas.  Yet, we are comparing against Shanghai and Hong Kong, only the highly educated areas of China.  This is somewhat like using something like Silicon Valley or New York in the comparison. 

When over in China, I was surprised at the poor literacy rate of rural people.  Those who are well educated and skilled, congregate in the cities.  But as a whole, they are far behind the US.  We are developing various texts to distribute to rural China and have had to switch to recorded versions to get over half of the people to even understand it.

[macboy]

The latest. 

I talked again with my customer service rep.  She had the following to say:

Firstly, about the warranty, the 3 year warranty has to be ordered together when purchase the unit. The price will be different from what you see online. From your provided documents, we cannot see any warranty extension information. So the default warranty period for U1273A including all accessories only can enjoy 3 months replacement warranty.
 
Secondly, I’ve ask engineer about the repair possibility again. Unfortunately, still no per incident repair is available. If you insist to send it to Agilent for repair, we only can quote you the unit exchange price, which will be as high as a new one.
 
Lastly, just a gentle reminder, pls find the correct purchasing channel to buy Agilent products in future in case of any warranty dispute. Agilent has no authorized online shop to sell products. Strictly speaking, the proof of online purchase cannot be accepted by us.

The 3-year warranty is "standard" according to their web page and other documentation. I see no way to change the "configuration" as is possible with other instruments... further cementing that the 3 year warranty is standard.

In the U.S. I believe that all warranties are transferrable by law, but like so many things this may vary from state to state. Most states have strongly worded implied warranties (as suggested by other here especially in Europe and UK). Find the implied warranty for the state where this was originally purchased. Whether or not the implied warranty should cover you, the standard 3 year warranty should, so fire off an e-mail to the consumer protection office of that state (don't mention you are out of country, that's 'not important' at the moment), and let them know. Make sure to include documentation.

The statement about no authorized online shop is completely bogus and tells me that this guy is talking out his rear end. Go to Agilent's website for U1273A, click "how to buy or rent", and it will produce a list of half a dozen authorized sales channels, each with a "buy online" button right next to it, right there on Agilent's web site. No online sales?! Yeah right.

[dannyf]

New York in the comparison. 

Comparison of public education in  NYC vs. poorly educated areas in China probably gives NYC too much disadvantage,

But as a whole, they are far behind the US. 

Depending on your measurements. I would think in terms of literacy rates, China trails behind the US: the rural areas of China are probably on par with inner cities in the US, except they have a lot of rural areas.

In terms of well educated people, China far exceeds the US.

In terms of well educated engineering talents, US is more like a 3rd world country.

In terms of well educated and creative people, it is probably a draw or a slight advantage to the US. The best universities in China are no match for Harvards or MITs or Stanfords of the US but most of their universities will blow the doors off ours.

Most important of all, the cultural emphasis and parental involvement in education are so much more there that I don't see a chance for us to catch up, ever.

You just need to look at the Chinese and Asian families here and how well they have "equalized" themselves through education, in spite of great disadvantages.

For an administration so fixated on inequality, ...

[wraper]

Did you check warranty status here: https://service.home.agilent.com/infoline/public/single-lookup.aspx?

[Rick Law]

...
You just need to look at the Chinese and Asian families here and how well they have "equalized" themselves through education, in spite of great disadvantages.

For an administration so fixated on inequality, ...

Danny, replied to you in a new thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/side-track-conversation-on-education-and-(pisa)-test/

[Rick Law]

OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) tests member nations regularly.  This is our OECD-PISA test rankings:  (The three numbers are for Math, Reading, and Science)

USA  481 (rank #36) 489 (rank #24) 497 (rank #28)
UK  494 (rank #26) 499 (rank #23) 514 (rank #20)
... ...
Hong Kong, China 561 (rank #3rd) 545 (rank #2nd) 555 (rank #2)
Shanghai, China 613 (rank 1st)  570 (rank 1st) 580 (rank 1st)

As with all statistics, this is biased.  ...

sacherjj , I replied to you in a new thread.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/side-track-conversation-on-education-and-(pisa)-test/

[mjkuwp]

I purchased an Agilent meter used on Ebay and they still honored the warranty when I had trouble with it.  In my case they replaced my meter with a different one.  I am in the USA.

My experience is that Agilent support was above my expectations.  I registered the product on their website and contacted them first through that interface... as I recall.  The meter in my case was a U1272A.

Thumbs up from me!

[Sbampato12]

Recently I bought a power supply, a34401 and a frequency counter 53181a. All seconded hand, all them with more than 10 years (or so), and I was able to buy a variety of parts to troubleshoot them, and all the help with Agilent. They were very responsive, a lot of emails, a very good communications. I still very confident with they. And I'm in Brazil, normally here we have a very poor consumer care, after the purchases (not with Agilent, but in general things).

[TimothySwieter]

Attached are the updates from today.  I'm short on schedule today, but if I can call their field engineers or rep, I will and report back.  It may be Monday though.

I'm encouraged to see some further information about the reasoning behind what they are saying about the warranty.  I sure hope they can offer a little grace if the unit was official purchased in January by the gentlemen I bought from, and then the 3 year warranty started in March. 

I ran into a troubleshooting situation last night and boy I wish I had the meter. 

[alexwhittemore]

FWIW, you might as well continue to take up as much of their time as possible. Of course, then you're taking up your own. But there will come a point at which it was a better deal for them to simply replace or repair the unit, rather than continue to pay support personnel to deal with you

[nanofrog]

I've a U1252B, bought in 2009. It came with a standard 3 year warranty, as did the U127x series, so their claim of the 3yr warranty period not being implemented until March of 2013 sounds bogus to me. Even if this was genuinely the case in China, the meter was purchased in the US, so the warranty will still be valid at only 11 months.

Worst case, you'd have to pursue a warranty claim in the US, and ship it to the US facility for RMA's.

Can't understand why you're still trying to deal with the Chinese office, as they're intent on blowing you off with BS. Repeatedly.  Better off to bypass them entirely IMHO at this point.

[Sbampato12]

As long as I know, the warranties, in general are only valid on contry of purchase. Unless the seller say something different.

And, I'm not saying that it is fair, but this and the fact that the warranty only apply to the first owner and only in the country of purchase is a common way of business.
That said I, I have to agree that this meters should have a 'restore' buttom, as said before in this thread.

As suggested before, and here again by nanofrog, I think you should try to get in contact with Agilent from where you bought the meter (in US if I'm not wrong).

[Co6aka]

As suggested before, and here again by nanofrog, I think you should try to get in contact with Agilent from where you bought the meter (in US if I'm not wrong).

"In the US..." is what I (think) I read in earlier posts too...

You should be contacting Agilent in the US, not HK, and if you cannot get a satisfactory resolution then you should file a report/complaint with the state's attorney general of the state in which you purchased it. It doesn't matter where in the world you took the unit after purchase, what matters is where you purchased it.

Also, realize that unless Agilent decides to be kindly accommodating you'll be required to ship it to the US for repair and then pay for return shipment.

Afterthought: If you don't get any satisfaction with Agilent-US then also contact Agilent's corporate "public relations" people.

[Stonent]

It appears from here that "D" must mean Download.

http://www.ittsb.eu/forum/index.php?topic=701.0

Maybe it is still trying some way but a setting is now off.

Got any teardown pictures? There may be a way to trace down a method of programming it from the inside.

[nanofrog]

FWIW, here's Agilent's US page on their 3 year warranty.

Worst case, you'll have to send it to the US, and have them ship it to a friend/family member, or professional reshipping company (presumes the return shipping fees they cover are for a US address only). You'll be into shipping 2x in this particular situation (you to Agilent, and most of the return distance from the US to you), but it will be a heck of a lot cheaper than buying a new meter.

Might get lucky of course, and either be able to send it to the China location after clearing this with the US (included in the RMA's instructions/terms), or if it has to be sent to the US, they'll cover all of the return shipping (US to HK). I'd be nervous as hell over the former though, given what's happened thus far (refuse to send a repaired/new unit, even with clear notes in the RMA sent by corporate).

[wraper]

I'll repeat my question, did you check your warranty status online? It takes 10 seconds: https://service.home.agilent.com/infoline/public/single-lookup.aspx

[dannyf]

send it to the US,

Based on the serial #, HP probably knows the particular meter's channel of distribution.

[TimothySwieter]

Sure, I'll try to submit a service request through the USA customer service.  I'll also try to call the two individuals here in HK, however I suspect I will get the same response as "can't help la".  And I'm waiting to hear back from Oliver at Agilent's Ebay store (whom I've bought other items through).

I've attached an image of my meter.  It is showing the "D...." without the hourglass.  I did see the hourglass when the download was starting.  Since then, only as shown in the image.  I did some power cycle, battery changes and some button pushing while turning the meter on and with the meter on to see if it could come out of this mode, but so far no joy.

I also attached an image of the Agilent warranty status checker.  It doesn't say anything for this serial number, not even the calibration certs, which I have in my hand and came with the meter.  So, from a warranty aspect, it is still not looking good.  But from an overall customer service, the firmware download made the meter fail, it shouldn't be a warranty thing.  It should be a thing at all.  It should just work without fail.