Author Topic: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator  (Read 295045 times)

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Online up8051

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Here are information how to dump STM32F1:
https://blog.zapb.de/stm32f1-exceptional-failure/
 
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Offline Prehistoricman

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Here are information how to dump STM32F1:
https://blog.zapb.de/stm32f1-exceptional-failure/
Nice article but the author is very bold about this being the first non-invasive attack. The paper I linked found success in using power glitching to bypass the bootloader check. Power glitching is non-invasive, right?

Online up8051

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The paper I linked found success in using power glitching to bypass the bootloader check. Power glitching is non-invasive, right?

Could you please provide the link?
 

Offline masterx81

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Hi!
Someone have found a way to fix the attenuation network impedance for low ranges (less than 500mv)?
I see that during attenuation there is active the 49.9ohm resistor after the opa, then the network of 100-510-100 resistors, giving 2 voltage dividers, one 49.9/100 and the other one 510/100. I have an fy6900 and have the same problem (plus a pcb design error so that the 2 100ohm output resistors after the ths are not in parallel, but this is another story :palm:)
Thanks!
 

Offline Prehistoricman

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Did you guys ever extract the built-in firmware?

I found this paper that extracted firmware from an STM32F1 series MCU 'easily':
https://tches.iacr.org/index.php/TCHES/article/download/7390/6562/
Page 9/10 (207/208)

Sounds like a fun project.

Edit:
And by an interesting coincidence, this paper specifies a FeelTech unit for generating their attack glitches.

Offline Nikolay_1984

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hello help repair the FY 6600 after a failed firmware. If enabled, only two green LEDs on the generator channels light up and nothing else is lit and the power button does not respond in Windows 10. The device is defined as a USB CH340
 com port is not active in the port management program, tell me how to repair this device.
I understood the firmware in altera
 

Offline Noy

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Hi,
which kind (size, Material) and value of resistor should i use to connect GND and PE?
 

Offline jchw4

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Another PS mod. Original one just died, so I had to invent something quick and dirty.

I had old laptop power adapter and a few cheap dc-dc buck modules ($0.7 delivered), so you can see the result. One is connected according to http://www.ti.com/lit/slyt516 to get negative voltage.
The output now is much more stable, so it's an upgrade for about $2 ;)

If somebody is going to follow me, note that I disassembled the original adapter. Don't do it! I wanted to save cables, which turned out to be a bad idea. Disassembly is messy, everything is glued inside and it's very easy to damage something. Just cut the two cables.
 

Offline FeelElec

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hello help repair the FY 6600 after a failed firmware. If enabled, only two green LEDs on the generator channels light up and nothing else is lit and the power button does not respond in Windows 10. The device is defined as a USB CH340
 com port is not active in the port management program, tell me how to repair this device.
I understood the firmware in altera

Dear customer, please describe your problem in detail. You can send an email to sales@feelelec.com, and we will actively solve the problem for you.

FeelElec
 
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Offline Johnny B Good

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Hi,
which kind (size, Material) and value of resistor should i use to connect GND and PE?

 Hi Noy,

 Apology for the late reply but this looks like a question intended for the original author of the "Lo-Z static drain resistive connection between the PE and the BNC ground" modification, which would be my good self.  ;)

 The "Lo-Z static drain" resistance value being, in this case, a matter of 3K3 to 10K rather than the typical anti-static drain value of one or two megohms. A quarter or half watt rated carbon or carbon film or metal film (take your pick - it's not critical) 4K7 resistor will suffice and allow DC offsets of up to 32 and 48 volts respectively between PE and BNC ground.

 I recently converted three UK wallwarts with a similar half mains touch voltage suppression mod using 4K7 ohm resistors so had a reason to calculate the maximum DC offset voltage that could be applied between the 0v connection and mains earth.

 In two of these mods, I'd simply used gutted wallwarts which happened to have proper (but unused) earth pins to rehouse the innards of a 12v wallwart and a 20v wallwart that had come supplied with an Aldi 4 watt LED desk lamp not so blessed with earth pins. I'd already gutted these older wallwarts and kept their housings for just such jobs as this.  >:D

 For those of us living in regions where the use of an earthed wall socket is mandatory such as here in the UK, the next time you're going through your box of ancient wallwarts, keep hold of any with a real earth pin since they've now become as precious as gold dust in the quest to eliminate the rather cheap 'n' nasty half mains voltage tingle of the later and current models that rely on a plastic earth pin merely to act as a safety shutter opener on such sockets.

 The other low standby power 12v 1A rated wallwart was already blessed with a real earth pin (unused) so only required to be cracked open in order to fit a quarter watt 4K7 metal film resistor between the accessible and solder-able earth pin contact[1] and the 0v rail of its 12v DC output.

 The reason for this sudden spurt of wallwart modification activity was my experiencing the ESD induced lockups of my FY6600 as a result of grounding it to an already grounded DUT or DSO prior to my solving this half mains voltage on the BNC grounds issue. Now I was seeing the same effect but this time as a result of the half live mains voltage of the 12v wallwart powering my GPSDO.

 Although it's a simple enough matter to arrange a separate GPSDO earth connection, independent of its 7 to 24 volt dc supply connection, I'd decided that I'd had more than enough of this nonsense of wallwarts cursed with this half live mains voltage issue and it was high time that I actually did something about it.

 The desk lamp wallwart had been an annoyance for some considerable time (LV current carrying telescopic arms making the use of such wallwarts unacceptable in this case) so, quite naturally, it  had gotten included in my 'de-tingling' of the primary and spare 12v  GPSDO wallwarts project.

[1] Solderable they might be but you do need to take precaution against softening the plastic whilst applying some 70 watts' worth of heat for the 20 to 30 seconds typically required to form a reliable solder joint using lead/tin solder. I used a broken digitally programmable on/off timer switch held by its earth pin in a vice into which I plugged the wallwart to act both as a heatsink and as a stabilising jig to prevent the earth pin canting out of alignment (I knew I'd eventually get some use out of that crappy timer switch if I held onto it long enough  :) ).

JBG
 

Offline xzswq21

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is there any upgraded FY6600 Function generator? I want to buy one.
❤ Bushire will be released and independent! ❤
 

Online Trader

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is there any upgraded FY6600 Function generator? I want to buy one.

Check the FY6900
 
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Offline maxwell3e10

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I had one of the NEC output relays fail in my generator which I had for only a year and haven't used much. Seems a bit surprising, unless NEC is not really NEC.
 

Offline Johnny B Good

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is there any upgraded FY6600 Function generator? I want to buy one.

Check the FY6900

 That took long enough! ;D

 BTW, I second that suggestion.

JBG
 

Offline Johnny B Good

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I had one of the NEC output relays fail in my generator which I had for only a year and haven't used much. Seems a bit surprising, unless NEC is not really NEC.

 Well, to quote (or at least paraphrase) Forest Gump, "Shit happens."

 Even the the most expensive of high quality components can fail (just ask NASA) and relays being 'relays', this doesn't necessarily indicate the use of a fake or counterfeit part. NEC relays can fail, just not so frequently as the more cheaply made versions is all. Just be thankful that it lasted a whole year before failing.  >:D

JBG
 

Offline Labrat101

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 Even the the most expensive of high quality components can fail (just ask NASA) and relays being 'relays', this doesn't necessarily indicate the use of a fake or counterfeit part. NEC relays can fail, just not so frequently as the more cheaply made versions is all. Just be thankful that it lasted a whole year before failing.  >:D

JBG

BTW Johnny my Last mod with the 2 x 10pf Caps on the op amp worked wonders with signal Quality . . NEC relay that's a blow out news.

Well I do hope NASA is Not using Feeltech / FeelElec Equipment other wise we are going to have all sorts of Stuff falling out of Orbit  :-DD
« Last Edit: May 17, 2020, 04:59:37 pm by Labrat101 »
If it's Gets Hot its Working. If its Getting cold! it's your Coffee.
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Offline Labrat101

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I  was messing with my FY6800 mumbling to myself .
The wife was standing behind me .
  She reached over and unplugged it and said " I can fix it.. I know what's wrong.  :-*
 I thought what the heck .. Don't mess with a woman .
   Five minuets later she returns with a grin ..  "I told you I could fix it !! "
 OK. Show Me .  :-\
 Pointing to the back Door .. See I have fix the Jitter .. the door is now quiet  . "No more noise from the Wind"
  O Thank you G-D for creating  Woman  >:D

  Great Now I have an excuse to buy a Aglient   :-+ :popcorn:  ..

  I said I would find a solution. But this One, completely slipped my mind .


If it's Gets Hot its Working. If its Getting cold! it's your Coffee.
" It All Started With A BIG Bang ... & Magic Smoke "
 

Offline maxwell3e10

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Once I started playing with my FY6600 to replace the NEC relay, I thought would be nice to replace the switching power supply as well. There has been a lot of discussion of various power supply options here, but I noticed this triple +5V, +/- 12-15V low-leakage linear power supply is available inexpensively:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SL-Power-Electronics-Linear-Power-Supply-MTLL-5W-A-5V-5A-12-12V-NEW/172432850496
1002726-0
It's a bit underpowered, rated only for 0.1A for +/- 12V, but fits nicely in the box. I measured the current limit is actually about 130 mA, which is sufficient for most cases. Reducing the current sense resistors from 3 Ohm to 1.5-1.8 Ohm increases the current to 250 mA without introducing any ripple.

Here is the spectrum of the 10 MHz sine output (taken with Owon XDS3062A scope), showing that linear supply gets rid of some spikes in the spectrum. The box runs a little hot, so probably putting a small fan in there would be a good idea.
1002728-1
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 11:47:46 am by maxwell3e10 »
 
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Offline pizzigri

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Another PS mod. Original one just died, so I had to invent something quick and dirty.

I had old laptop power adapter and a few cheap dc-dc buck modules ($0.7 delivered), so you can see the result. One is connected according to http://www.ti.com/lit/slyt516 to get negative voltage.
The output now is much more stable, so it's an upgrade for about $2 ;)

If somebody is going to follow me, note that I disassembled the original adapter. Don't do it! I wanted to save cables, which turned out to be a bad idea. Disassembly is messy, everything is glued inside and it's very easy to damage something. Just cut the two cables.

Hi! I’m really sorry, however in the TI document linked, after the phrase “ where s is the complex Laplace variable and He(s) repre- sents the higher-frequency...” and a host of equations, I got quite lost. I’m a hobbyst and trying to learn, but not to the point of learning at 50+ this level of math.... could you please post a wiring diagram, as obtaining a neg rail from standard buck converters would be incredibly helpful not only in this application but generally as well? I would really appreciate it.
By the way, I want to publicly thank both JBG and Masterx81 for their help and incredible patience in helping me in the PSU mods and TXCO replacement sourcing.
I sincerely felt that the level of questions I asked both of you guys was really too low for the very high level of competence and skill this forum is known for, and that is why I sent you guys PM’s.
To contribute in some way to the thread, here’s the thermal images of the main board and the psu board. On the PSU there is a frankly unsettling resistor (R3) that is running really hot, about 93 celsius.
On the board, the three voltage regulators near the usb connector, are in dire need of a heatsink. The small and inexpensive ones built for the Raspberry are perfect for this.
The rest of the board is running around 40or so celsius, and I think can go as is - see the other two images, one with the Cyclone, and the other of the components near the opamps under the big existing heatsink.
 Boy, I’m learning sooo much just by following this one thread....

« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 06:41:26 pm by pizzigri »
 

Offline Labrat101

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Once I started playing with my FY6600 to replace the NEC relay, I thought would be nice to replace the switching power supply as well. There has been a lot of discussion of various power supply options here, but I noticed this triple +5V, +/- 12-15V low-leakage linear power supply is available inexpensively:

It's a bit underpowered, rated only for 0.1A for +/- 12V, but fits nicely in the box. I measured the current limit is actually about 130 mA, which is sufficient for most cases. Reducing the current sense resistors from 3 Ohm to 1.5-1.8 Ohm increases the current to 250 mA without introducing any ripple.

Hi if your interested I totally rebuilt my power supply on the 5volt side I use the 2x  CVCC buck converters they are a $ more but they run perfectly well and very little noise .Plus I set the CC side to 500 ma & 1200ma on the OCXO. I did put 0.1pf ceramic and 470uf ripple class cap . (red) not viable on the pictures.
Also I put a shield cover that fits over the OCXO board to thermal isolate it.
the whole thing with the OCXO draws 8 Watts .
  On the mains side 8 watts is about 0.04 Ma @ 240vac .
   Ripple was just readable on 10mv on my scope.
Also found using 20Mhz OCXO x2.5 reduced the the jitter to 2ns .
 Opposed to 10Mhz x5 as the PLL also multiplies the jitter as well.
 Its Now reads 0.02 PPb   :)
RNS
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 08:29:36 pm by Labrat101 »
If it's Gets Hot its Working. If its Getting cold! it's your Coffee.
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Thanks for sharing this result of your PSU-Modification.

Once I started playing with my FY6600 to replace the NEC relay, I thought would be nice to replace the switching power supply as well. There has been a lot of discussion of various power supply options here, but I noticed this triple +5V, +/- 12-15V low-leakage linear power supply is available inexpensively:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SL-Power-Electronics-Linear-Power-Supply-MTLL-5W-A-5V-5A-12-12V-NEW/172432850496
(Attachment Link)
It's a bit underpowered, rated only for 0.1A for +/- 12V, but fits nicely in the box. I measured the current limit is actually about 130 mA, which is sufficient for most cases. Reducing the current sense resistors from 3 Ohm to 1.5-1.8 Ohm increases the current to 250 mA without introducing any ripple.

Here is the spectrum of the 10 MHz sine output (taken with Owon XDS3063A scope), showing that linear supply gets rid of some spikes in the spectrum. The box runs a little hot, so probably putting a small fan in there would be a good idea.
(Attachment Link)

After reading for weeks now all the postings of  FY66/68/69 I think it is one of the few (or the only one?)
with a before/after comparison. There are many ideas and projects on PSU-improvement here but I believe
that this makes only sense when you can measure the results!
I'm improving these days my PSU to get the additional power for
an OCXO-Mod (with my FY6900) and think about a before/after-measurement setting.
 

Offline Labrat101

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Hi We all spent many hours of research.
Like I chose the 20MHZ OCXO opposed to the 10Mhz .
2 reason 1st they are cheaper for high PPb  and I reconnected if you multiple anything you also multiply any errors as well  . And I found that dividing my 20Mhz 0.02 PPB OCXO by 2 from the PLL pin 4 buffered out . I get
10Mhz reference signal for calibration which is 0.01 PPB which has to be good enough for any Nerd standard.
and times 2.5 of the 20Mhz give me only a 2ns jitter apposed to 4ns of the original . Which at 25mhz square wave
is pretty good plus I can push it to 28MHz before it fails to be a square wave. Sine is ok all the way to 60Mhz.  :-+
Also put a few tautanium 10uf caps on all the power lines & ferrite rings over the ocxo supply.
The Relay have a contact noise place a 100pf ceramic or smaller on the relay inputs from the op amp line.
the cap can be between 10 - 100pf depending on the relay . only the color is the same the contact resistance
varies from relay to relay. This will give a cleaner Square wave & also the sine .

The Power supply as with most was a small challenge I used the transformer from an old dual tape deck from a
PA system that was binned . so it had the metal screening plus a copper screen raped round the winding.
If you are going to buy I would go for a torridial transform that have a really good performance.
There is good stuff that can be pulled from old audio devices .  :-+
The Link to that power supply looks good as well but it is only 5W  .
 IF you are going to add more mods My FY6800 actually uses near 8W .After all mods ..
 
.. I don't have a before Pictures as my SMP failed within 2 hours of use.  The power supply totally crispy .. :scared:
 These are after all mods @ 40Mhz sine .
 Mains ripple is about 40 uv . but that maybe lead or connection noise.

Have Fun  :popcorn:
RNS

« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 05:25:29 pm by Labrat101 »
If it's Gets Hot its Working. If its Getting cold! it's your Coffee.
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Offline Bad_Driver

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Hi Maxwell

I tried to repeat your measurement with my Oscilloscope (Siglent SDS 2000X+ 500 MHz) with my FY6900 before my scheduled
PSU-improvement. As far as possible I used your settings (50 Ohms termination)

You find all settings in the screenshot (Windowing is Blackmann). The O is "only" 10 bits. What FFT-Windowing have you used?
It looks different from youre findings. The FY6900 (with 5.6 k drain resistor between outlet earth and grounding as only modification)
has a different PSU than FY6600, may be this can be the reason as well.

I learned a lot during the last weeks about O-FFT with the help of https://www.edn.com/ffts-and-oscilloscopes-a-practical-guide/
and that the combination of  the weak BNC-connectors of the FY and cheap Coax-Cables result in nonsens   :bullshit:

I repeated the measurement of Ebel0410 (post #281 in this topic) which he has done with a R+S SA with my O's FFT and the results
matched surprisingly good. If someone is interested I can provide my measurements. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 09:58:43 am by Bad_Driver »
 
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Offline maxwell3e10

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For FFT measurements I use the scope to acquire the maximum number of points at maximum sample rate (40M points at 500 MS/sec with 12 bit for Owon XDS3062A) and then transfer to computer for analysis with Matlab. I used Kaiser window and scaled the FFT to give PSD relative to fundamental in 1 Hz width. You can see some other measurements here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/signal-quality-of-budget-waveform-generators/msg3047624/#msg3047624
In particular, the broad peak near 25 MHz is due to the scope. But the white noise background level is pretty good.

My Fy6600 was initially completely not modified, so no grounding connection. One could see in the time domain some spikes from SMPS for low-level signals. With linear power supply there is still no ground connection and no spikes.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 11:47:38 am by maxwell3e10 »
 
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