Author Topic: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator  (Read 316372 times)

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Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #500 on: January 16, 2018, 11:17:06 pm »
Heres a link to a post a while back ,a guy managed to do very similar to whats being attempted here ,

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/mhs-5200a-serial-protocol-reverse-engineered/

maybe its of use .
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #501 on: January 17, 2018, 07:03:10 am »
Aaaand just like this the stored sine wave on mine got corrupted ( fw. 3.1), and by just like this I mean changing the frequency and turning on and off the channels !!!
Trully a Piece Of Smart  |O 
I'll continue doing the captures and hope that I'll be able to do a list of commands soon, but owners with fw. 3.1 , you're NOT safe !!!


 DC1MC
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #502 on: January 17, 2018, 09:36:12 am »
Well, stored waveform corruption on V3.1 is different then firmware corruption on V3.0
Its probably what this new "Fix Sine" menu option in the PC software is about (do try that) and failing that, you can always rewrite the Winbond flash (or flash section) like Ebel0410 did. (He is the only other person I know about with specific sine corruption, and he also had V3.1)

So it seems indeed V3.1 is not safe, but it is repairable.
 

Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #503 on: January 17, 2018, 03:19:35 pm »
Oh thats bad news Dc ,
Seems crazy that Feeltech wont offer an abillity to upgrade the unit ,anyone that buys this product will have an interest in electronic to begin with ,and getting together the programer card shouldnt be that difficult, it does seem like there might be a few steps in getting the right code to each of the chips ,and the usb connection doesnt seem to be set up to upgrade all  in one go .
It would seem if Feeltech want their customers to remain loyal and not leave them with a paper weight and a bunch of negative press they need to at very least offer people some viable alternative to shipping it back to factory at their own cost.
If Feeltech guys  are steadfastly refusing to offer online updates ,then really they need to start sending out replacement boards to those who can show documentary evidence of these faults free of charge ,really if they just bit the bullet and sent out brand new boxes to its customers who were affected they could probably reverse all the reputational damage that has occured already . Ive just emailed the vendor for the third time asking what software revision the machine they are send me is .this time I reminded him that he simply needs to power up one of the units to check which FW revision its at .For the money Fy6600 is hard to beat in terms of functionality ,if feeltech can fix the issues there onto a winner for sure .
 

Offline jleg

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #504 on: January 17, 2018, 03:32:57 pm »
So it seems indeed V3.1 is not safe, but it is repairable.
i would not call this "repairable". It just fixes the issue "for the moment". The next moment, it is gone again. At least this is what i observe with this "repair".
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #505 on: January 17, 2018, 04:42:48 pm »
It would seem if Feeltech want their customers to remain loyal and not leave them with a paper weight and a bunch of negative press they need to at very least offer people some viable alternative to shipping it back to factory at their own cost.

It would seem that way, but people just keep giving Feeltech their money despite all the negative press that's already out there. Feeltech has made it clear they don't care.
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #506 on: January 17, 2018, 09:46:04 pm »
Hello everybody, here are some preliminary news on the protocol decoding stuff (btw, the stored sine waves have been repaired):

- The control message that the FP sends seem to be the FULL configuration, that is, the frequency, amplitude and whatever is send for the both channels and the FPGA reconfigures fully.
- The numerical information (at least for the frequency and amplitude) seem to be organized into 48bit !!! numbers ( 3x16bit), there are at least 32 of this 48bit parameters that are send.
- I've managed to identify the frequency slot, it does increase with this stupid mHz increment, and the number reflects the display.
I'm so curios what is happening  if somebody forces a value larger than 60MHz on the slot, especially on the 30MHz units !!!
- I've managed to identify the amplitude slot, this somehow varies monotonic with the display, but there on 1 to 1 correspondence, seem to be some quanta, even values from a table, to be investigated.
- I've managed to quickly reach the limits of the Intronix logic analyzer, to get somehow reliable and repeatable measurements at 18MHz clock, I need to sample at 50MHz and the little buffer fills quickly, even with compression active. the software on the other side was so cool, it took me like 5 seconds change the SPI protocol interpreter from 8 bits to 16bits. I really hope that the owner of the LogicPort IP will produce an updated variant or at least open-source it, because I really like it.
- To continue work I need to use the LA advanced features, like repeated condition trigger, to skip groups of 3 SPI transfers, but that means doing single acquisitions instead of looping and comparing values, and this pisses me off.
!!! WANTED !!! Kind Soul  to Lease a Logic Analyzer  with a RELIABLE sampling mode (3V3 levels) of at least 50MHz (100MHz preferable, not every Chinese firma is Intronix) on at least 4 channels (I need an extra for the extra chip select, to see where this long string of words are going, remember we have 2 chip selects!!!) and yuuuuge buffer, at least 4Msample without compression, there is a large interval in between transfers compared with the actual transfer time of 3 words, and if the LA is of naive design it really needs a large buffer.   

Hopefully I'll be soon able to get the control message, without a powerful LA will be painful, but it's doable.

Humanitarian appeal: Dear gentle beings that lurks on this thread, I know that some of you have these cool scopes with LA and/or preformant LAs, kindly please try to reproduce my measurements, the connector is gigantic at today's standard and there is no pain in hooking the LA, 5 pins with plastic balls it's all that is needed for the grabbers to have a grabbing point ;).
If you don't want, at least some encouraging words will be appreciated  ^-^.

I'm posting some pictures with my setup to encourage you to contribute  :-DMM

 Cheers,
 DC1MC
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #507 on: January 17, 2018, 10:33:14 pm »
Hello everybody, here are some preliminary news on the protocol decoding stuff (btw, the stored sine waves have been repaired):
I assume with PC software menu option?

Quote
- The control message that the FP sends seem to be the FULL configuration, that is, the frequency, amplitude and whatever is send for the both channels and the FPGA reconfigures fully.
If it sends the entire config, does that mean the entire waveform gets reset? It seems not. At least not if I change the amplitude (easy to trigger on) on channel A, channel B runs without any discontinuity, and even channel A only changes amplitude while its phase runs continuously.

Image 1: 10KHz + 11KHz and jumping from 4V to 5V
Note: if you change from 5V to 6V, channel A disappears for 4ms due to a relay clicking over

Image 2: same with 1MHz and 1.1MHz
Note that it actually takes 15usec or so for the amplitude to actually rise

That most likely means that the waveform is not reset as the FPGA continues to tick down the waveform samples.
So likely you can expect the same control set for all settings, except when you change the waveform, that will have its own completely distinct control set.

Quote
WANTED !!! Kind Soul  to Lease a Logic Analyzer  with a RELIABLE sampling mode (3V3 levels) of at least 50MHz (100MHz preferable, not every Chinese firma is Intronix) on at least 4 channels.
I assume you mean 'loan'? Sorry, I only have a 20MS/s 256KB Scanalogic-2 (IKALogic)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 10:35:07 pm by cybermaus »
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #508 on: January 17, 2018, 11:06:29 pm »
I have a MICSIG 1104 on the way (been in this country for 3 days without moving  >:( ) It should be able to cope with the specs you mention and has built in bus decoding installed. Mine is the 30MhZ Signal generator too.

Bus decoding/sniffing isn't my thing but I will try anything 'once'  ;D
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Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #509 on: January 18, 2018, 01:25:23 am »
I guess to some extent we all knew what we were getting into buying one of these units ,
Its one of those too good to be true type deals ,but having said that ,for the money involved,for me its worth the risk, I can do all of the upgrades component  wise myself for next to nothing .
Maybe a simple survey in here involving owners of the FY6600 and we could get some stats on the failure rates ,something which Dr Feeltech knows only too well at this stage Id imagine.
Im afraid Im not much use on the programming front ,I can certainly follow instruction on how to flash something but beyond that ,programming isnt my thing .
Analog audio is my main focus,specifically valve/tube gear, the 1's and 0's I dont bother so much with as long as what I put in comes back out cleanly at the other side .

Incidently I went to my electronics recycling point yesterday with a few odds and ends to get rid of ,I took a Technomate sat box back from the heap with me and found a very suitable replacement psu for anything small requireing +3.3+5+12-12 volts inside ,each of the rails has proper CLC filters at the outputs ,something a lot of manufacturers penny pinch over.

Im sceptical of switchmodes because over the years Iv seen some very bizzare behaviour when different units which rely on switcher psu's share a common ground.Once on a live recording session I had a bass player turn up with a Genz Benz ,lightweight 500w amp ,it had an xlr out which I took a connection from to my hardisk recorder/mixer. The amp for what ever reason simply stopped working completely until the signal connection was broken ,accompanied with a mini melt down on behalf of the bass player . Anyway just went back to old fashioned active DI box directly from the bass and everything worked great again , a real ghost in the machine type experience for the amp owner though. Another time I re-jigged a vintage radio cabinet into a modern unit with a switching amp pulled from my fostex PM.03's , it works fine with most sources ,but pair it to a dab radio and the interaction/interference from the two switchmodes makes the whole set up unusable ,a mix of 50/100hz hum and spikey rf voltages are all that come through the speakers ,with very carefull routing of the wiring from the supplies it can work but its well beyond the average persons ability to understand . Id be interested if anyone else has experienced similar weirdness when multiple switchers interact via ground and crap gets induced into your audio wires .

 

Offline beanflying

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #510 on: January 18, 2018, 02:25:06 am »
Forum survey in this case would only reveal a Negative view. We are most likely a few percent of their sales at best and it seems that most have found their way here to improve weaknesses or try and revive dead ones.
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order. Also CNC wannabe, 3D printer and Laser Cutter Junkie and just don't mention my TEA addiction....
 

Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #511 on: January 18, 2018, 04:38:01 am »
I just happened to click on the ebay link that was left by the person who started this post ,
Ironically it says that this sale has been removed by the seller because the item was lost or broken .

You could be right Bean ,maybe a post called 'Feeltech FY6600 Complaints department' for everyone who's been stung might make Dr Feeltech sit up and take notice , aside from a few youtube vids and sellers of the item, google search sends people straight here and it seems to be the only serious blog out there on this particular machine, that gives us a bit of leverage .
Maybe a new topic page where everyone who got a dud FY6600 machine goes and puts the name of the ebay seller, FW version ,and a short description of the fault,nice an simple   ,
Id say it wouldnt take long for Mr Feeltech to hearback from his retailers   :rant:
And that might be enough to change his mind on doing right by the people who were dissapointed , the softly softly approach has been tried, time to up the ante Id say .
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #512 on: January 18, 2018, 07:47:36 am »
Quick before going out:
@cybermaus all the measurements were done with the default sine wave on, no custom waveform, too bad about your LA, yes, I wanted to say lease not loan, aber wir schaffen das :).

@beanflying the LA is cool, there is nothing ├╝ber-hackerish to do, just connect it to the data cable, and write down what get's send when some commands are done. If the LA has a protocol decoder, then there are just a number of values to be jotted down, this will actually be really helpful to be able to compare two separate units.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #513 on: January 18, 2018, 08:25:16 am »
Not entirely sure but I think the MICSIG can take videos of the screen  ;D
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order. Also CNC wannabe, 3D printer and Laser Cutter Junkie and just don't mention my TEA addiction....
 

Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #514 on: January 18, 2018, 09:15:09 pm »
I had been wondering about a question that has arrisen a few times on the thread ,but their didnt seem to be a straight answer to ,
What exactly is the difference between the 15/30/45/60 mhz models , have the upper models the different opp amps on the output stage ,or different power supply ,is there a different software on the higher frequency models or other different hardware modifications ?
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #515 on: January 19, 2018, 04:07:56 am »
Just an introduction today. Feeltech meet MICSIG hardware and software from Shenzen that works  >:D
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order. Also CNC wannabe, 3D printer and Laser Cutter Junkie and just don't mention my TEA addiction....
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #516 on: January 19, 2018, 04:50:38 am »
It seems to me that reviewing the other similar units would be more useful for others.  I rather doubt that FeelTech will continue in the T&M business.

It seems to me that the only way to get any kind of warranty out of FeelTech is to order a replacement  from a seller with low cost return shipping. swap the bad board and return for a refund.   However,  a string of V 3.0 or 3.1 units would make even that unattractive.
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #517 on: January 19, 2018, 06:56:49 pm »
OK gentlemen, the WE is starting and so is the sniffing session.
One thing is for sure, for one click of the encoder in the frequency change mode exactly 17 x 48bit values are send form the FP to the SB.
The frequency value is only linear up to some value, afterwards it become a little strange.
The Intronix LA is really superb, but I've hit as well the limit in the sample memory, what a real pity that the designer got some personality disorder and doesn't want a redesign for a larger sample memory, I will definitely pay for an updated version.
 

Offline bsudbrink

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #518 on: January 19, 2018, 07:29:49 pm »
Last year, when I decided to by an FY6600, there was a competitor, the JDS6600.  Part of my decision was based on the fact that more people around here seemed more enthusiastic about the FY6600.  I figured, more hacks, more fun.  Thing is, I don't seem to see any further discussion of the JDS6600 past last November.  Does anyone have both?  Does the JDS have similar issues to the FY?  Could the JDS give any clues on how to "get into" the FY?
 

Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #519 on: January 19, 2018, 08:26:59 pm »
The software with the Jds does look better than what comes with the FY6600, maybe its worth trying it out to see if it functions with the Feeltech as well .
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #520 on: January 20, 2018, 12:55:09 am »
Unfortunately, there was just enough information to make a bad decision.  I'm considering ordering  either a JDS or Koolertronic unit as a replacement if DC1MC doesn't  manage to document the bus  protocol to the point I can reprogram the FeelTech. Of course, he should return the V 3.1 unit he received as defective and repeat the process until he gets a unit that doesn't crap on itself.

I was visiting my sister in CA and  just got home.  I'm still trying to to get back up to speed with what I was doing when I left.   The migration of my Solaris 10 system from 1 TB to 2 TB disks for the ZFS arrays is almost complete.  So the big project still in progress is the T&M restack.  I've also got to source a distribution  amplifier and set up my Leo Bodnar GPSDO to feed the other instruments.  Which probably won't happen for a day or two as the 40 nS rise time pulse generator is much more interesting. Many years ago I tried to build such a thing and got my head handed to me on a platter.  I plan on a rematch.  I don't intend to try to beat Leo. Just meet my original 900 pS risetime goal set by the Tek 465 cal procedures.
 

Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #521 on: January 20, 2018, 01:03:59 am »
Aside from the software related issues that some have experienced ,the extra features on the FY6600 like sync input ,and the ability to modulate one signal with another just make the FY a better more versatile piece of kit , fingers crossed  the 'Feelers' guys have got their sh1t together with the software glitches now too ,my unit is on the slow boat from China as we speak ,still no response from the seller about which FW version Im getting either , worst comes to worst and they try and pawn me off an older firmware revision I'll most likely shed the load and tell the courier to return it from whence it came. Hopefully  Feeltech have recalled the funky units with FW 3.0 and 3.1 from their retailers at this stage.
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #522 on: January 20, 2018, 01:14:44 am »
I was told I had a "lifetime" warranty.  FT does not even reply now nor does the seller. sportgogo.  I'm about to start the agony of making formal complaints to eBay and Paypal.

I think that "justice" would be open source FW.  Make it *really* easy to launch a competing product.  Let's face it, there's not a lot to the UI software.  I strongly suspect that the issues result from a demented attitude about "intellectual property".
 

Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #523 on: January 20, 2018, 02:27:17 am »
I guess we have to clap ourself on the back here in the west ,Im not sure if the concept of intellectual property even existed in China uptill modern times .
Maybe its not just as simple as upgrading the firmware in one go via usb like with most equipment ,maybe the process is fiddly and way to awkward for a non technical person to do .

Thats a real shame they have left you in the lurch RHB, at least you have plenty of documentary evidence from this post to back up your side of the story . I hope you get some satisfaction ,maybe if enough complaints are lodged, Ebay will contact the Feeltech in person for an explanation , at the end of the day the seller is only the middle man and has no control over the quality ,the person who ends up taking the lumps when things go wrong are the actual employees of the seller ,theres a lack of acountabillity from the people raking in the big money ,but isnt that the way all over .

 

Offline beanflying

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #524 on: January 20, 2018, 07:21:17 am »
My opinion of the JDS is it is a rip off of the basic Feeltech unit but they also too some shortcuts and cost savings using a resistor ladder instead of a proper DAC

Just finished a 14 hours day on my feet with another few to clean up yet. Monday/Tuesday I will crack the lid on mine and have a play with the new scope.   :-+
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order. Also CNC wannabe, 3D printer and Laser Cutter Junkie and just don't mention my TEA addiction....
 


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