Author Topic: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator  (Read 316585 times)

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Offline rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #575 on: January 24, 2018, 07:00:49 pm »
I have started a thread in Repair "FeelTech FY-6600 Corrupt Flash Repair" which summarizes what information we have.  If you post there *please* be brief and clear.  Discussion should remain here.

FWIW I'm working on an ESD mat and the humidity is 100%.  With exactly identical screens on multiple units after corruption, ESD seems an unlikely cause.

I'm about to start testing the FP separated from the SB.  I have other projects and this is looking a lot like what we call a "dry hole" in the oil industry.  So further efforts by me will be sporadic.






 

Offline fremen67

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #576 on: January 24, 2018, 07:46:51 pm »
Hi there!

Nice thread and a lot of interesting things to read.
I've got a FY6600 60Mhz with firmware V3.2.
You will find attached a dump of the flash memory for the records. (@cybermaus: nice how to... )

I have also hooked up my LA to the board and will try to help gathering informations on the FP<-> FPGA protocol (just a matter of free time).
I will first try to see if there are obvious differences in the V3.2 protocol with what DC1M1C already described for V3.1.
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Online DC1MC

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #577 on: January 24, 2018, 08:40:29 pm »
Welcome on board fremen67  ^-^, I hope that you'll be the next one to get some data out of this cable.
Now it's the battle royale of the Logic Analyzers, I've wanted to see how much it's the initialization sequence when one channel is activated and the whole LCD is refreshed, as my little LA doesn't stand a chance to log the sequence I started to count the SPI transfers at least.
BLOODY ROTATING HELL !!!
5608 transfers !!!
Whoever has a LA that is able to log this, please tell, I want one.
The novelty is, as opposed with setting frequency, amplitude and such, this time I have managed to capture the one SPI register read operation, the exact last one even :).
They differ from write operation, that have one SPI transfer 3x16bits words (address + 32 bit value), the register read operation first sent the address (one transfer MOSI) then, a bit later, reads 32 bits in two transfers form the slave (MISO).
Please have a look at the attached picture, the full read operation is between cursors A and B.

Good that I've found an excellent FPGA board with lots of DDR3 ram and USB 3.0 interface and I've reconnected with an old digital designer friend, this calls for a serious LA  ;D

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

 


 
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #578 on: January 24, 2018, 08:54:24 pm »
I've separated the FP from the SB.  If I power up the FP without connection to the SB it just displays the FeelTech logo.  No other information.  So there is some communication from the SB to the FP.

I'm getting waveforms out again, so it appears that I caused problems when I soldered wires to the 8  bit bus connectors making the connections to the SB header unreliable.   In retrospect, I should have cut the cable in the middle and soldered the ends together to take the grabbers.

I observed some large globs of flux which I have cleaned off with isopropyl.  I've encountered problems in humid climates with absorption of moisture affecting signal integrity.

@DC1MC the picture is missing
 

Offline texaspyro

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #579 on: January 24, 2018, 09:00:51 pm »
Are you qualifying the logic analyzer clock with the SPI chip select signal for the signal board?  That will limit captures to just those for the signal board.  Most analyzers have a way to qualify the clock,  otherwise you may need to add an external gate.
 

Offline fremen67

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #580 on: January 24, 2018, 09:40:43 pm »
Here is a capture of the Power On initialization sequence for the main 6 signals : 4.5 sec,  29403 transfers... A lot of material to study ...

PA1 seems to be some sort of /FPGA Ready signal. It is true at the beginning then falls just after MISO has been released. It last for 180ms
PB 11may not be a second CS as already suggested but rather a /Register Select signal. It is always down when sending the register number to the FPGA then up when sending the value for it.

If you want to have a look at the power on sequence, you need to download Dsview 0.98 here: http://www.dreamsourcelab.com/download.html
Just open the .dsl file and the Decoder window. The screenshot shows you what you can see when zooming
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Offline fremen67

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #581 on: January 24, 2018, 10:19:05 pm »
... I've wanted to see how much it's the initialization sequence when one channel is activated and the whole LCD is refreshed, as my little LA doesn't stand a chance to log the sequence I started to count the SPI transfers at least.
BLOODY ROTATING HELL !!!
5608 transfers !!!
I attached 2 captures: the OFF to ON and then ON to OFF sequences for CH1: Sine, Freq.10Khz, Amp.5V, Off.0V, Duty.50%, Phase.0, same on CH2 which remained OFF.
EDIT: I just noticed that with V3.2 I have 6024 transfers in that case compared to your 5608 ...

Whoever has a LA that is able to log this, please tell, I want one.
The captures where made using a DSLogic Basic (55€ on aliexpress) upgraded to the Plus version by adding a 256Mbit RAM Buffer (2€ @mouser). But even the Basic version can stream the Power On initialization sequence with simple Triggers (6 channels@ 50Mhz or 3 signals @100Mhz).
Having the buffer allows you to setup complex triggers (like a specific register value) at higher sampling rates: @400Mhz for 4 signals (You can also activate RLE compression when needed).
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 10:38:40 pm by fremen67 »
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Offline fremen67

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #582 on: January 24, 2018, 10:32:30 pm »
I'm getting waveforms out again, so it appears that I caused problems when I soldered wires to the 8  bit bus connectors making the connections to the SB header unreliable.   In retrospect, I should have cut the cable in the middle and soldered the ends together to take the grabbers.
Cutting wires is a little bit extremist  :)
With this type of connector, you don't need grabbers. I would suggest to solder head to head 2 rows of 8 pins. You release the connector from the board, insert one side of the 8 pins in the upper part of the connector and then replug the connector. This will lock the pins in place. Than you connect on the other side of the 8 pins directly your LA wires (or eventually scope probes). Have a look at the photo I posted before, this should be clearer than my explanation  ;)

EDIT: Typo.. "lock" and not "look".. sorry
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 10:42:02 pm by fremen67 »
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Offline fremen67

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #583 on: January 24, 2018, 11:41:04 pm »
... I've wanted to see how much it's the initialization sequence when one channel is activated and the whole LCD is refreshed, as my little LA doesn't stand a chance to log the sequence I started to count the SPI transfers at least.
BLOODY ROTATING HELL !!!
5608 transfers !!!
I attached 2 captures: the OFF to ON and then ON to OFF sequences for CH1: Sine, Freq.10Khz, Amp.5V, Off.0V, Duty.50%, Phase.0, same on CH2 which remained OFF.
EDIT: I just noticed that with V3.2 I have 6024 transfers in that case compared to your 5608 ...

It is even worse than that.. I was only capturing the first train of tranfers. In fact when you switch ON CH1, there are 3 trains of transfers.. 12111 transfers in total. I could not find a difference when analysing the captures of CH1 OFF->ON and ON->OFF... just because the first train is identical... so 6024 transfers less to search in  ;)

EDIT: 12111 transfers for one command :scared:
Reg 0x05 = 0  -> CH1=ON, CH2=ON
Reg 0x05 = 4  -> CH1=OFF, CH2 = ON
Reg 0x05 = 24  -> CH1=OFF, CH2 = OFF
Reg 0x05 = 20  -> CH1=ON, CH2 = OFF

So if I make no mistakes:
Reg 0x05:bit5=0/1 -> CH1=ON/OFF
Reg 0x05:bit2=0/1 -> CH2=ON/OFF

« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 12:18:11 am by fremen67 »
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Offline rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #584 on: January 25, 2018, 12:40:46 am »

Cutting wires is a little bit extremist  :)
With this type of connector, you don't need grabbers. I would suggest to solder head to head 2 rows of 8 pins. You release the connector from the board, insert one side of the 8 pins in the upper part of the connector and then replug the connector. This will lock the pins in place. Than you connect on the other side of the 8 pins directly your LA wires (or eventually scope probes). Have a look at the photo I posted before, this should be clearer than my explanation  ;)

EDIT: Typo.. "lock" and not "look".. sorry

What is the connector and where can you buy them?  I looked for a long time online without finding anything.  I made a new connector using an 8 pin "Dupont" connector, but it doesn't make reliable connections.

My original intent had been to make a probing harness, but I got impatient.
 

Offline fremen67

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #585 on: January 25, 2018, 01:38:40 am »

Cutting wires is a little bit extremist  :)
With this type of connector, you don't need grabbers. I would suggest to solder head to head 2 rows of 8 pins. You release the connector from the board, insert one side of the 8 pins in the upper part of the connector and then replug the connector. This will lock the pins in place. Than you connect on the other side of the 8 pins directly your LA wires (or eventually scope probes). Have a look at the photo I posted before, this should be clearer than my explanation  ;)

EDIT: Typo.. "lock" and not "look".. sorry

What is the connector and where can you buy them?  I looked for a long time online without finding anything.  I made a new connector using an 8 pin "Dupont" connector, but it doesn't make reliable connections.

My original intent had been to make a probing harness, but I got impatient.

I guess what I wrote was not clear :) When I wrote "With this type of connector" I was talking about the type of the white connector used on the board. Because it is huge and has 2,54 mm spacing you can just use classical 2.54mm male breakable Header Strip. I am sure you have plenty of them in your drawers. You cut 2 rows of 8 pins, solder them together by the shorter side and that's it. It is the same idea as putting needles in the rear side of the connector to access the contacts. With this photo you will find it obvious  ;)
The tip is to remove the connector from the board before inserting the header pin "connector" in it: it is much easer to put it in and afterwards when you reconnect your connector on the board, the header pins can't move.
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Offline rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #586 on: January 25, 2018, 02:20:32 am »
If that were a M-F pair I could see how you could put grabbers on between the plastic strips.  However, I'm not getting reliable connections using female connectors  on the male board  pins. The header pins on the board  are much shorter than the headers in your picture.  I cut back the plastic on the F connector, but the sockets don't stay in place when I try to press the connector in place.

You can plug the setup you show into the FP or SB, but they don't work without talking to each other.  So I'm still unclear how what you are suggesting would work unless you had a pair of F-F cables.

Which still leaves my question,  What is a source for those cable connectors?  Or  replacement  cables.

[edit]

I found the connectors.  It's the JST XH series.  Digikey carries them.  Unfortunately, the crimping tool is *very* expensive.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 03:06:06 am by rhb »
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #587 on: January 25, 2018, 03:26:48 am »
Here's a possible option for the LA problem;



An FPGA and some compression logic would be nice, but for $45 and 200 MB/S it looks as if it might well do the job for this problem.

I opened up the Instek LA pods and they have a bunch of ADCMP561s and a bunch of discretes in addition to some other stuff.  Pods are marked 100K ohms and 40 V.

So there's a bit more than just an FX3 to making a proper LA, but as we are dealing w/ 3.3 V logic it might be worth a gamble.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 03:30:35 am by rhb »
 

Offline DaveR

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #588 on: January 25, 2018, 03:49:14 am »
I found the connectors.  It's the JST XH series.  Digikey carries them.  Unfortunately, the crimping tool is *very* expensive.

You don't need a rip-off crimping tool for XH connectors - just use lengths of FTP network cable wire and solder them to the pins, then use a pair of needle nosed pliers to fold the "wings" of the pins over the insulation to grip the wires.  Just use minimal amounts of solder so that you can still insert the pins into the plastic shell.
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #589 on: January 25, 2018, 04:21:45 am »
If that were a M-F pair I could see how you could put grabbers on between the plastic strips.  However, I'm not getting reliable connections using female connectors  on the male board  pins. The header pins on the board  are much shorter than the headers in your picture.  I cut back the plastic on the F connector, but the sockets don't stay in place when I try to press the connector in place.

You can plug the setup you show into the FP or SB, but they don't work without talking to each other.  So I'm still unclear how what you are suggesting would work unless you had a pair of F-F cables.

Which still leaves my question,  What is a source for those cable connectors?  Or  replacement  cables.

[edit]

I found the connectors.  It's the JST XH series.  Digikey carries them.  Unfortunately, the crimping tool is *very* expensive.

Pretty much any cheap generic jst/dupont crimpers will work. You can even use the cheap sockets for making the dupont connectors, but instead of putting the plastic housing on just put some shrink wrap. I made the one in the picture the other day with exactly what's in the picture (~$10 for the crimper 5 - 10 years ago, ~$1 for the sockets). As for fremen67's suggested way of connecting, you are way overthinking what he is saying. Go back and look at the first picture he posted where he is already hooked in. He is not using (or suggesting to use) grabbers. The multicolor cables are going back to the LA, no grabbers necessary, the LA cables just plug directly into the adapter. And the adapter is being pushed directly into the original connector that is already in the generator. He is just suggesting to pull the cable from the generator board before trying to push the adapter into the back of it to allow the adapter pins to go in easier, then the generator cable gets plugged directly back into the board.
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #590 on: January 25, 2018, 04:37:41 am »
Long pin header seems to work fine for me . Plenty of length for clips or probes.  :)
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Online DC1MC

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #591 on: January 25, 2018, 07:21:31 am »
Holly cow, you go to sleep a bit depressed and you wake up with a lot of cool activity  ^-^ ^-^ ^-^

@fremen67  Vive la France !!! finally data, sweet data, to analyze  8) !!! Than you so much !!!
Now some comments:
Basic architecture:
- Having -PWRGOOD and -FPGARDY signals are a good and logic design decision, I did the same as @rhb and started the FP with the data connector out, it now explains why it blocks waiting for the two signals to drop, for the sake of experiment I will try to artificially pull them down and see how the FP display looks like, especially what waveform data is selected by default and how the picture of it looks.
- Having an address/data selector pin it's a bit meh, if the registers are always 32bits, it will introduce a minor complication while writing the new firmware, I'm curious how they switch in between reading and writing a register from the FPGA pov, because this will help us to produce the first and most important new firmware routines: register read and write.
- Detaching the actual configuration commands from the stuff that displays the waveform on the LCD, that IMO is the bulk of the transfers and should consist mostly of reads (sample the waveform description in FPGA to do a drawing ?!?!?),  because for the non-FP firmware, we don't need to bother with little miserable pictures for starters.

Current data sets:
@fremen67
- I want to kindly ask you to do an 100MHz sampling "reference" capture for the initialization sequence, the SPI clock it's 18MHz and Shannon may wink from where it is  >:D, so activate the RLE and buffering and get the full initialization seq for reference, I'll have to munch on it, it's a lot of research, for example I'm really curious if the FP reads the data from the SPI Flash first and then push it to the FPGA.
About the On/Off captures and the multiple train of pulses, this sounds a bit weird, I did my captures with CH1 already in the OFF state and counting the pulses for the push to ON, and even if my little LA it's outclassed by the diarrhea of data, it was counting reliably the number of transfers (NCSS going down), putting one transfer more in the trigger settings was not triggering it,
If you can repeat (again as 100MHz sampling) the measurement with the CH1 already in OFF state before starting measurement I will double grateful.

Logic Analyzer:
I've found this excellent Artix boards with lots of RAM and Cypress FX3 interface, and a digital designer to help me, the seller send the schematics and SDK and it actually looks sane, I'll try to produce an updated DSPro+ thingie to not be caught off-guard if the next project with an 33MHz SPI clock ;). The analog front end will be a pleasure to design  8). I'll let you know if you're interested, PM me, it's off-topic on this thread.

 See you all in the evening,
 DC1MC 

 

Offline DerKammi

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #592 on: January 25, 2018, 12:32:56 pm »
The captures where made using a DSLogic Basic (55€ on aliexpress) upgraded to the Plus version by adding a 256Mbit RAM Buffer (2€ @mouser). But even the Basic version can stream the Power On initialization sequence with simple Triggers (6 channels@ 50Mhz or 3 signals @100Mhz).
Having the buffer allows you to setup complex triggers (like a specific register value) at higher sampling rates: @400Mhz for 4 signals (You can also activate RLE compression when needed).

Which chip did you use? I like the idea of this kind. ^-^
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #593 on: January 25, 2018, 03:07:44 pm »
I tried what fremen67 does, but with individual wires which proved unreliable.  Wish I had thought of using a header like that.  Very slick. 

The "dupont" style connectors I have (eBay assortment) have the sockets recessed too far to reach the board pins.

So I'll be filling in the hole i dug once I get some connectors and a crimping tool.

BTW I'm *very* interested in a more capable LA than what the Instek provides.   Something that just sends transitions to the PC for recording and which can be configured to sample at some multiple of the target clock.  So please start a thread in the Projects section.  I've been planning to get a miniZed because of the widespread use of the Zynq in scopes.  Getting another would not be an issue.
 

Offline gbraux

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #594 on: January 25, 2018, 07:11:17 pm »
Hi. I am new to the forum, so a big hello from Paris, France.

I have just received my FY6600 (30Mhz) from Aliexpress and ... looks like they have updated the PSU :-)
I also ordered some IEC connectors at the same time ... but I won't bother making the ground hack : Ground-BNC to Ground-Earth = 300mV :-)

FW Version : 3.2
Main board Feeltech branded V1.501
PSU brand is "SUOR". Most immediate visual difference with the previous PSU is the banding (used to be FeelTech) , and they have removed the unpopulated headers we used to use for connecting ground-earth(IEC hack). There may (for sure) be some other differences, but not an expert ...

Guillaume.
 

Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #595 on: January 25, 2018, 09:53:26 pm »
Hi Guillaume,
welcome to the forum .
That sounds like good news ,maybe the original supply was responsable for the dodgy batch ,
I said I might as well repost this image from a previous comment for the purposes of comparison.
not the greatest of images ,maybe theres a better one to be found .
 

Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #596 on: January 25, 2018, 09:58:00 pm »
Only difference I can spot for sure from those two photos is the Yellow mains input filter cap is gone .
 

Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #597 on: January 25, 2018, 10:12:29 pm »
Slightly better image here ,
 

Offline fremen67

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #598 on: January 26, 2018, 12:36:10 am »
- Having an address/data selector pin it's a bit meh, if the registers are always 32bits, it will introduce a minor complication while writing the new firmware …
But it is more robust  as a falling edge of CS while having RS low always indicates the beginning of a register write command thus insuring synchronization…

- I want to kindly ask you to do an 100MHz sampling "reference" capture for the initialization sequence, the SPI clock it's 18MHz and Shannon may wink from where it is  >:D
In streaming mode the LA can sample up to 3 signals @100Mhz  and up to 6 @50Mhz (In buffer mode there is no way that it can capture 4.5 sec of signal, even with RLE activated…).
I recorded  yesterday 2 captures of the init sequence @100Mhz (MOSI-MISO-CLK) and @ 50Mhz (MOSI-MISO-CLK-/CS-/RS) and then checked that the SPI decoded values where exactly the same. So appart from cosmetical consideration on CLK not beeing a perfect square signal, all the SPI decoded value should be correct in the 50Mhz capture with the benefit of having CS and RS at the same time.
I will post a 100Mhz capture for you but I find the 50Mhz one much easier to read.

Regarding Shannon winking I think he could be reassured and RIP  :)
The Shannon Sampling Theorem states that your sampling rate should be at least twice the highest frequency contained in your signal, that is 18Mhz here from CLK, thus the sampling rate should be at least 36Mhz. There is a rule of thumb that says you need at least 4 times the highest  frequency to be on the safe side (that is 72Mhz here) but hey … with 50 Mhz we are somewhere in the middle… and it works.

About the On/Off captures and the multiple train of pulses, this sounds a bit weird, I did my captures with CH1 already in the OFF state and counting the pulses for the push to ON, and even if my little LA it's outclassed by the diarrhea of data, it was counting reliably the number of transfers (NCSS going down), putting one transfer more in the trigger settings was not triggering it,
If you can repeat (again as 100MHz sampling) the measurement with the CH1 already in OFF state before starting measurement I will double grateful.
This is exactly what I did yesterday (about 15 times I think, maybe more...and @100Mhz) plus the other way (ON to OFF). Don’t forget that :   
-   There is more than 172ms between train 1 and 2
-   The revision I have is V3.2 (I think you have 3.1 ?)
That could explain the different behaviour.

For the init sequence capture, I would recommend that you place a cursor just before the first SPI transaction (around 66.66 ms) and change the protocol decoding start from "Start" to "Cursor 1" (see photo)
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Offline fremen67

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #599 on: January 26, 2018, 12:47:04 am »
The captures where made using a DSLogic Basic (55€ on aliexpress) upgraded to the Plus version by adding a 256Mbit RAM Buffer (2€ @mouser). But even the Basic version can stream the Power On initialization sequence with simple Triggers (6 channels@ 50Mhz or 3 signals @100Mhz).
Having the buffer allows you to setup complex triggers (like a specific register value) at higher sampling rates: @400Mhz for 4 signals (You can also activate RLE compression when needed).

Which chip did you use? I like the idea of this kind. ^-^

This one : https://www.mouser.fr/ProductDetail/913-4816M16A2TG6AGTR
But you then have to either change the USB VID/PID in the program (DSview) or in the onboard eeprom so that it is seen as a "Plus" and not a "Basic" one.
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