Author Topic: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator  (Read 316600 times)

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Offline DaveR

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #675 on: February 04, 2018, 08:36:32 pm »
Reply #671 gives a link to a user manual for the FY6600 but that manual is V2.2 from July, 2017 and the FeelTech home page has what appears to be the latest v2.9 from August, 2017. The date on the download link for the FY6600 English manual says 2017-10-17. 

http://en.feeltech.net/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6

The PC control software is now also up to v5.5 (may be worth trying the repair_sine option again?), and other documents include detailed descriptions of the PC -> Device serial communication and arbitrary waveform data transfer protocols, which might come in useful.
 

Offline DerKammi

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #676 on: February 05, 2018, 06:59:34 am »
Hi guys , I am also waiting for my FY 6600 .
I have found this thread shortly after I was pay for this , so ...too late .

@DerKammi did you have paid custom tax for your ? I was ordered through Banggood .

For a new control board this ready made solutions can short time or at least may help :

https://www.embedded-wizard.de/high-performance-gui-hmi-for-stm32f7-discovery.html
With the demo version you can compile a working interface that can be uploaded to STM board .

They have even a demo of a signal generator interface here :
https://www.embedded-wizard.de/files/cto_layout/img/demo/webgl/WaveformGenerator/EmWiApp.html 

Or Nextion smart displays which can send commands through Serial interface
https://nextion.itead.cc/ - This has free IDE and serial communication .

Many appreciations about your great work !

I did not have to pay any tax, but that is just lucky these days due to the huge amount of packages bought by the dutch these days from China. I ordered mine from Aliexpress though.

The board you linked is a F7 board, this one has huge amount of power compared to the F1 series, can't compare at all. So fancy smooth fading GUIs are possibly not all that easy on 320x240 screens.
I'm receiving the unit from Mark to develop/test the software on, so I can make his mangled unit better :D

Maybe you should try to get refunds on your FY6600s.

Unless I'm getting something wrong, I'm gathering that ones that are working could self destruct at any time?

Do I have this right? Does its firmware corrupt itself?

The story goes in this topic that V3.1 and earlier firmware corrupt them selves randomly. The V3.2 unit up until now are OK.

I am happy to perform whatever stepwise procedures I can on my unit, to the extent that will help out. The STM32 attack paper is interesting reading but I lack the skill to have much hope of implementing the authors' "cold boot" attack on my own.

I ordered 4 F103 boards with the same controller from Aliexpress to controll the FPGA in simple mode but also try to hack the fuse bits with the document. Hack one the other :)

Plenty to do, and also fixing to pinball machines. These projects are not helping each other.
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #677 on: February 05, 2018, 08:41:35 am »
By luck, I also did not pay taxes. I had fully expected to and budgeted for it. Seems sometimes one does slip by, but in my experience any package bigger then a stuffed letter you should expect to have to fill in extra paperwork and add both +21% VAT and + €12 handling

---

The hard problem seems to be only V3.0. I recall no-one (as-yet) reported self-destruct problem on a V2.9 or V3.1 firmware.
The lesser problem of Sine corruption did happen on V3.1, but they included the "fix sine" option into the PC software

I think the counts are:
5 people reported self-destructed V3.0
2 people reported sine corrupt on V3.1

---

As to the redevelopment board: I am not very active so I should probably not complain and be happy with whatever comes out...

But I would like to mention that the most obvious board to redevelop for is not some "yet another" board, but simply the panel included with the FY6600
After all, if you clear the F103, it is just as good as new, and just as much/little work to program then any other STM32 F0, F1, F7 board. All we need to do is figure out the GPIO pin to button mapping, but you would have to make such a map on a completely new board also.

So my advise/request: please do all redevelopment on a F103 with similar GPIO mapping so it fits the original.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 08:45:31 am by cybermaus »
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #678 on: February 05, 2018, 08:45:41 am »
Update on my firmware extraction: (tl;dr: not good)

I spend most of this weekend on the frauenhofer 3.3 Debug Exploit attack.
- It should works on a locked F051 (but I stupidly only ordered 1)
- It works :) on an unlocked  :-\ F103
- It does not work on an locked F103

Working on an unlocked F103 is actually not as trivial as you may think:

The attack works by reading one byte per reset cycle in a race condition with the flash lockdown. You can extract the exact same one byte in the exact same method if the flash is not locking down (you simply always win the race).  And this shows that the cabling is good and your commands work etc.
Also due to the UART debugging and porting attempt (see below) I feel I am now getting a quite good understandinf of code and attack (definitely more then from just watching the powerpoint and video).

For example, this is how I learned of yet another structural difference: Unlike the F051, on the F103 the SWD (single wire debug) shares its pin with JTAG and you need to send a special bit-train to disable JTAG first. It is not impossible this bit-train is pre-warning the debug-lockdown, thus is slowing us down enough so that we always loose the SWD race. But as mentioned in previous post, it could also be that the F1 family uses a different internal lockdown logic altogether, as witnessed by the fact it does not have a RDP-2 level.

Interesting was that the frauenhofer code already had code to switch the GPIO pin from JTAG to SWD, but it was commented out. Shows that they too had been testing somewhat seriously on the F1 family. Not sure though if they corrected the timing for a 72MHz bus rather then a 48MHz one.

The reason I ordered only one F051 is I naivety though I could run the extraction code on a blue-pill F103 with my F051 as the target.
So I learned the F0 and F1 are *really* different. Even GPIO programming is using completely different methods, and porting the code is a drag.
I will order a 2nd F051 though. But to be honest, only for the learning of it, and maybe because I want to be able to say I did actually extracted code, not just did armchair research. Bug given the huge differences between F0 and F1, I have no real belief anymore on success.

---

Additional rant: I spend half the weekend fighting the wrong enemy. Turns out I had a usb-rs232-ttl cable that "somewhat" worked, enough to make me think it worked (typing; test transfers), but working erratically when driven by the F051 non the less. And no, it was not a Xon/Xoff thing. Its now cut into a thousand pieces in the bin so I never accidentally use it again.
 

Offline DerKammi

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #679 on: February 05, 2018, 10:02:31 am »
Ahh that would be a pitty. Damn JTAG.

Changing the sequence of commands perhaps?
 

Online DC1MC

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #680 on: February 05, 2018, 06:47:09 pm »
Hi everybody, sorry I couldn't focus mor on this project :(, just a quick note regarding the SWI/JTAG issue:

I was wondering if the SWI and JTAG clock are independent of the CPU clock, maybe we can slow down enormously the MCU clock, like 100KHz or such and use the fastest possible clock for the JTAG/SWI if they are synchrone with their own clock ?

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

 

Offline DerKammi

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #681 on: February 05, 2018, 07:38:06 pm »
Like your thinking. But I wouldn't think so. The PLL is doing havoc here I'm afraid. Worth a look though feeding an external clock which will be enough for the PLL to run and start the SWI interface.
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #682 on: February 05, 2018, 08:05:33 pm »
Lol, I was looking at the clock config as I was reading this....
 

Online DC1MC

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #683 on: February 05, 2018, 08:24:17 pm »
Let the PLL wobble, as long as it spits a bite it can be as bad as possible, there is no need to run any code, I hope that the SWI interface is a simpler state machine and it will suck a byte, eventually after many tries :).

 Cheers,
 DC1MC 
 

Offline fremen67

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #684 on: February 05, 2018, 10:23:18 pm »
Some updates: I have now written the basic functions for the FPGA (register read/write, flash erase/write/read) some macro functions (waveforms read/write and resample for display), a startup function like the original one (flash test, FPGA init, Waveform loading for the FPGA), and I am able to command the FPGA from my STM32 dev board.
I have not seen any model related limitation in the FPGA: increasing to 110Mhz the frequency of a sine wave ... outputs a 110Mhz sine wave (well, not the prettiest one  :))

As the serial protocol is documented, I have now connected my dev board to the other ribbon cable (serial link) and am working on programming the basic serial functions so that I can use the PC Software to control the FPGA through the dev board.
We should have shortly the basic tools needed to go on with the next parallel steps, which could be:

- Working on the GUI directly on the FP (which could directly use FPGA functions already tested with the serial protocol)
- Describing remaining high level functions (like sweep done by the FP...)
- Extending internal functions Library (Modulation, sweep, input, ...)
- Extending serial protocol functions
- Working on a new PC Software
- ...

Of course we will have to choose a toolchain before. At the moment I use Keil µvision with my dev board (with STM32F10x_StdPeriph_Lib_V3.5.0) but other choices could be fine as well (arduino with STM32duino for example could also be fine and easy for upgrades). We also have to see what kind of LCD is used...


But I would like to mention that the most obvious board to redevelop for is not some "yet another" board, but simply the panel included with the FY6600
After all, if you clear the F103, it is just as good as new, and just as much/little work to program then any other STM32 F0, F1, F7 board. All we need to do is figure out the GPIO pin to button mapping, but you would have to make such a map on a completely new board also.

So my advise/request: please do all redevelopment on a F103 with similar GPIO mapping so it fits the original.
Yes, and before using the FP as dev board, any STM32F103c8t6 like this one will be perfect https://fr.aliexpress.com/premium/STM32F103c8t6.html?d=y&origin=y&blanktest=0&tc=ppc&initiative_id=SB_20180205135516&isViewCP=y&catId=0


Reply #671 gives a link to a user manual for the FY6600 but that manual is V2.2 from July, 2017 and the FeelTech home page has what appears to be the latest v2.9 from August, 2017. The date on the download link for the FY6600 English manual says 2017-10-17. 

http://en.feeltech.net/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6

The PC control software is now also up to v5.5 (may be worth trying the repair_sine option again?), and other documents include detailed descriptions of the PC -> Device serial communication and arbitrary waveform data transfer protocols, which might come in useful.
Yes very usefull. Even the PC software source code seems to be included.
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Offline DerKammi

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #685 on: February 06, 2018, 06:59:19 am »
Some updates: I have now written the basic functions for the FPGA (register read/write, flash erase/write/read) some macro functions (waveforms read/write and resample for display), a startup function like the original one (flash test, FPGA init, Waveform loading for the FPGA), and I am able to command the FPGA from my STM32 dev board.
I have not seen any model related limitation in the FPGA: increasing to 110Mhz the frequency of a sine wave ... outputs a 110Mhz sine wave (well, not the prettiest one  :))

As the serial protocol is documented, I have now connected my dev board to the other ribbon cable (serial link) and am working on programming the basic serial functions so that I can use the PC Software to control the FPGA through the dev board.
We should have shortly the basic tools needed to go on with the next parallel steps, which could be:

- Working on the GUI directly on the FP (which could directly use FPGA functions already tested with the serial protocol)
- Describing remaining high level functions (like sweep done by the FP...)
- Extending internal functions Library (Modulation, sweep, input, ...)
- Extending serial protocol functions
- Working on a new PC Software
- ...

Of course we will have to choose a toolchain before. At the moment I use Keil µvision with my dev board (with STM32F10x_StdPeriph_Lib_V3.5.0) but other choices could be fine as well (arduino with STM32duino for example could also be fine and easy for upgrades). We also have to see what kind of LCD is used...

^^^HERO^^^

A bad 110MHz sine is expected off course since the 165MHz DAC, but the limit is not there. Very nice all in all.

The display is a ILI9341 for 99% sure. The pinout is the classic 18 pin for this type op display. Link for similar display

But I would like to mention that the most obvious board to redevelop for is not some "yet another" board, but simply the panel included with the FY6600
After all, if you clear the F103, it is just as good as new, and just as much/little work to program then any other STM32 F0, F1, F7 board. All we need to do is figure out the GPIO pin to button mapping, but you would have to make such a map on a completely new board also.

So my advise/request: please do all redevelopment on a F103 with similar GPIO mapping so it fits the original.
Yes, and before using the FP as dev board, any STM32F103c8t6 like this one will be perfect https://fr.aliexpress.com/premium/STM32F103c8t6.html?d=y&origin=y&blanktest=0&tc=ppc&initiative_id=SB_20180205135516&isViewCP=y&catId=0

I'm receiving the unit from Mark today and can test all the things we need. I'm not much of a C++ hero myself but sure can monkey test the crap out of things. So if things need to be tested just send the hex file and I'll flash it once I receive my ST-Link clone this or next week.
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #686 on: February 06, 2018, 07:31:32 am »
Of course we will have to choose a toolchain before. At the moment I use Keil µvision with my dev board (with STM32F10x_StdPeriph_Lib_V3.5.0) but other choices could be fine as well (arduino with STM32duino for example could also be fine and easy for upgrades). We also have to see what kind of LCD is used..

Wow, you guys are actually pulling this off.. Very impressed

Putting this in an STM32duino toolchain is a novel but interesting suggestion. But it would mean all your code so far has to be rewritten right? Painful.
Then again, it has the advantage that people can more easily make local mods, or even do a quick temp hardcode of some sort of "special signal train" by coding very fast changes directly to the FPGA. After all, everybody and their grandmother know how to slightly mod an pre-existing Arduino program.

But it does mean the USB pins that STM32duino bootloader uses should not be used yet. Need to check that.

If it works, it would make it easier for someone else to pick up should you (heaven forbid) loose interest.
Of course, it also means there is going to be like a bazillion forks and variants on the internet.
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #687 on: February 06, 2018, 07:44:34 am »
I have not seen any model related limitation in the FPGA: increasing to 110Mhz the frequency of a sine wave ... outputs a 110Mhz sine wave (well, not the prettiest one  :))
62.5MHz should be pretty still. And 125MHz should be better then 110MHz.
Due to them being nice round numbers.

A bad 110MHz sine is expected off course since the 165MHz DAC, but the limit is not there. Very nice all in all.
The DAC is actually overclocked to 250MHz. But 4 samples per sine is really the minimum, so practically 60 (62.5) MHz would indeed be the max.


 

Offline scott0999

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #688 on: February 06, 2018, 06:26:53 pm »
 I don't see the firmware specified anywhere when ordering one. Any way to be sure I get the latest 3.2 firmware?
 

Online DC1MC

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #689 on: February 06, 2018, 06:44:08 pm »
I don't see the firmware specified anywhere when ordering one. Any way to be sure I get the latest 3.2 firmware?
Uhmm, ask the seller  :-// ? I did so, and still got 3.1, they don't give a rat behind.  :-\
 

Offline fremen67

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #690 on: February 06, 2018, 06:55:28 pm »
Putting this in an STM32duino toolchain is a novel but interesting suggestion. But it would mean all your code so far has to be rewritten right? Painful.
Not really. I tried not to code it the way my grandmother would have done it  ;). The FPGA functions are in a library which does not access directly GPIOs, and low level functions calls (SPI) are macros defined outside the library in a config file.

Then again, it has the advantage that people can more easily make local mods, or even do a quick temp hardcode of some sort of "special signal train" by coding very fast changes directly to the FPGA. After all, everybody and their grandmother know how to slightly mod an pre-existing Arduino program.
That is exactly the point, except that we are just talking to the FPGA  not programming it.

If it works, it would make it easier for someone else to pick up should you (heaven forbid) loose interest.
Exactly my point again but it would be more a lack of time than a lost of interest.
I tried STM32duino and a STM32F103c8t6 for the replacement of  the VFD display of a fluke 8842A with a SSD1322 OLED display: no problems!.
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Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #691 on: February 06, 2018, 07:04:14 pm »
I know it was talked about, but did anyone already map out all the buttons and connections of the FB?
If not, I may have a go at that, but I do not want to be doing duplicate work.

Especially the use of PA11;12; PC12;13;14;15 may be important to figure out to see if STM32duino could run on this board (with a standard bootloader)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 07:25:23 pm by cybermaus »
 

Offline DerKammi

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #692 on: February 06, 2018, 07:56:14 pm »
I know it was talked about, but did anyone already map out all the buttons and connections of the FB?
If not, I may have a go at that, but I do not want to be doing duplicate work.

Especially the use of PA11;12; PC12;13;14;15 may be important to figure out to see if STM32duino could run on this board (with a standard bootloader)

I have, and I'm in the process of making the schematics in Eagle.
Buttons are in a 4x4 matrix on PB0..PB7

PA11 is LCD backlight
PA12 is Buzzer

PC12 does not exist

PC13 is LCD reset
PC14 not used
PC15 not used
 

Offline cybermaus

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #693 on: February 06, 2018, 08:50:19 pm »
Hmm, PC14/15 would be the 32K crystal. I guess there is none? Then in initialization we should ensure RTC (real time clock) uses a different source.
PC12/13 is often the dev board user button & led, but that is OK we can redefine those in the bootloader. (Where are the 3 leds anyway?)

PA11/12 is a pity though. They are for the Arduino USB sketch upload
If they are used as GPIO, we cannot use it to upload a sketch.

Alternative would be serial, but that uses PA9/10 and constantly change the BOOT0 jumper. So not easy and anyway PA9/10 are already hooked up elsewhere. I am surprised those are not the ones running to the serial header on the backside.

Yet another upload alternative would be STLink on PA13/14. Are those free at least? Probably they are, I bet its how they program in the factory.
Soldering in a standard STLink header would not be a bad idea anyway. And a clone STlink is cheap enough to permanently mount one inside the device


BTW: I thought of a disadvantage to STM32duino: it may be a low threshold. But it does not have a proper debug function where we can step through the code.
If we have to integrate a STLink anyway, maybe Keil is not so bad afterall. (I say 'we' but I am not actually writing code. This is all just musings for your consideration, fremen67)
 

Offline DerKammi

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #694 on: February 06, 2018, 09:09:57 pm »
Just made the first draft, not all is in, but keys,leds and LCD (pdf).

Leds are for power and CH1,CH2 on/off

The ST-Link is on JK1 so that is the one to use in my opinion. Standard four pin ST-Link (image).

Serial to the back are on PA2 and PA3

I like the idea of using the Atollic TrueSTUDIO mentioned earlier in this topic, worth checking/trying out, its free as of the new version.
 

Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #695 on: February 06, 2018, 10:23:26 pm »
Solid work guys, well done ,

Did the supplier specify which firmware you were getting DCMC? I asked the same question about my unit and got no response from the seller. Im thinking on account of weight I might not have to pay the import duties ,usually dont take a hit if its delivered via regular post either ,often sellers missquote the value as well .I ordered a new multimeter as well ,that is due tomorrow by courier ,I might not be so lucky on that parcel .

 

Offline fremen67

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #696 on: February 07, 2018, 12:14:31 am »
Yet another upload alternative would be STLink on PA13/14. Are those free at least? Probably they are, I bet its how they program in the factory.
Soldering in a standard STLink header would not be a bad idea anyway. And a clone STlink is cheap enough to permanently mount one inside the device
I did not use the arduino bootloader last time as the flash memory is already pretty small. I just used the STlink for download. That's a cheap and convenient solution.

BTW: I thought of a disadvantage to STM32duino: it may be a low threshold. But it does not have a proper debug function where we can step through the code.
If we have to integrate a STLink anyway, maybe Keil is not so bad afterall. (I say 'we' but I am not actually writing code. This is all just musings for your consideration, fremen67)
That's right but not really a big deal. I am more concern about the code size limitation of the free version of Keil for future developments.
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Offline fremen67

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #697 on: February 07, 2018, 12:29:12 am »
Just made the first draft, not all is in, but keys,leds and LCD (pdf).

Leds are for power and CH1,CH2 on/off

The ST-Link is on JK1 so that is the one to use in my opinion. Standard four pin ST-Link (image).

Serial to the back are on PA2 and PA3
Well done :-+ Very promising!

I like the idea of using the Atollic TrueSTUDIO mentioned earlier in this topic, worth checking/trying out, its free as of the new version.
I never used it but I will try. My project should already be compatible with it.

Note: The PC Software already wants to talk to me. I just said to him I was "FY6600-60M"  when he asked ;)
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Offline Malvineous

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #698 on: February 07, 2018, 02:07:11 am »
Is there a place yet where this stuff is documented?  The thread is becoming a bit long to read through to find info on the protocols etc.

If not, might I suggest someone create a GitHub repository and enable the wiki for the repo?  Then we can add interested people to the project and they will be able to document the latest info in a nice clean wiki structure for all to see.  Happy to be the one to set this up if it would help.  (GitHub account required, git skills not required, editing the wiki is web based like any other wiki.)

The reason I ask is that I'm wondering whether the serial protocol between the FP and FPGA has any unused commands, e.g. that allow the FPGA to read or write memory on the FP board.  If it did, it might be another way to dump the firmware, by sending the FP commands to read out the contents of the ROM, which won't be locked if it's the program itself performing the reads.
 

Offline soundtec

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Re: FeelTech FY6600 60MHz 2-Ch VCO Function Arbitrary Waveform Signal Generator
« Reply #699 on: February 07, 2018, 05:20:53 am »
Sounds like a good plan Mal ,
The Github seems to be the place for it alright ,its nice to see the internet or at least one small part of it working in true spirit of sharing and open source.

Im sure some of the other contributors will be able to look into your suggestion for getting the firmware out from behind bars .
From Fremens work we have seen the high frequency limit is down to restrictions in how the front panel commands the FPGA ,so at least via the programer and some software looks like the Feeltech spoiler can be circumvented and we can all have a 60mhz AWG for the price of a 16mhz unit and the appropriate programming  tools.

You know what the funny thing about all this is , our efforts here could actually end up with Feeltech selling even more of these units ,everybody can have their cake and eat it ,win win for all .

Has anyone with a defective unit got any proper response from the factory yet ? It seems totally short sighted of the 'Feelers' just to leave you guys swinging in the wind ,when for a small cost the few who had failed units could be sorted and that in itself would make more people think about buying the product, they have to learn to play the long game to build any kind of brand loyalty .
 


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