Final Questions Before I Get My First Oscilloscope

[teamSMITHusa]

Hi Everyone!
After being distracted by my job for 4 years, I finally have the time to re-establish my electronics lab in the garage!
After lots of research, I am ready to get my first digital oscilloscope. wOot! But first, a final few questions...
I my budget is no more than $1200.
...with that said...
I am looking to get the Rigol DS2072A ($839 at Tequipment.net)...
But I see the Rigol DS2072A-S ($1189)...

Question 1) What's "built in 2 channel 25MHz Source" mean? It seems its the only added feature of the DS2072A-S compared to the DS2072A. Other than that feature, they seem identical. Is it worth the extra $350???

Question 2) Tequipment.net seems to be offering a limited time Free Bonus upgrade to the DS2072A... Advanced Triggering, CAN Triggering decoding, memory upgrade from 14M to 56M, and Serial Data decoder (RS-232, I2C and SPI). The question is, does this include USB decoding? and they claim this is an additional $1108 value, free!. Is that true? I know these are great features to have and having these features implode after the 'free trial' ends just sucks, so its a good time to act on this freebie?... i suppose!?

Question 3) I want this to be the only oscilloscope I purchase for at least the next 5 years, probably more. Can the DS2072A be upgraded to 100MHz or higher, at a later date? My  first target was at least a 100MHz scope, but the Rigol 100MHz units are outside my budget. My original budget was $600, but i up'ed it because i want something i wont 'grow' out of too soon and a 50MHz unit simply won't do. The DS2072A seems perfect, because its well under my $1200 budget, allowing me to get a nice separate 5MHz digital function generator and maybe a frequency counter too. Spending the full $1200 on a different scope didn't seem to get me any critical additional features or up to a 100MHz version.

Final Question) When was the DS2072A released? Not the DS2072, but the 'A' version. Whats the difference? Am I getting something (DS2072'A') that is more than halfway through its life cycle?? I hate when i drop almost $1000 on something and a 'new' version comes out 6 months later.

Final, Final Question) I purchased my last benchtop DMM from Tequipment and plan to purchase my new scope from them too (and probably everything else), they are great!!! What's this talk about a discount code for EEVblog members? Hmmm? Still valid?

Thanks a ton!!!!
PS: Dave is awesome, and re-kindled the inner-EE inside me that faded away about 5 years ago, after seeing his videos for the first time last week. 

[Wuerstchenhund]

Question 1) What's "built in 2 channel 25MHz Source" mean? It seems its the only added feature of the DS2072A-S compared to the DS2072A. Other than that feature, they seem identical. Is it worth the extra $350???

The '-S' has an internal function generator. It's not worth the $350, you're better off investing into a standalone generator (i.e. Siglent SDG800/SDG1000 Series) which can be had for roughly the same and which offer more bang for the buck.

Question 2) Tequipment.net seems to be offering a limited time Free Bonus upgrade to the DS2072A... Advanced Triggering, CAN Triggering decoding, memory upgrade from 14M to 56M, and Serial Data decoder (RS-232, I2C and SPI). The question is, does this include USB decoding?

No, it doesn't. No Rigol scope can do USB decoding, for which you're looking at a high end scope with at least 1.5GHz bandwidth (which is the minimum bandwidth recommened by the USB-IF for hi-speed USB 2.0).

Question 3) I want this to be the only oscilloscope I purchase for at least the next 5 years, probably more. Can the DS2072A be upgraded to 100MHz or higher, at a later date?

As far as I know the DS2000 can be hacked to 300MHz and the few software options that exist can be enabled, but others will certainly jump in and provide more details.

In general, if you can't hack it, bandwidth upgrades are rarely worth their money because when years down the road you decide you need more bandwidth just buying a better scope and selling your old one is usually the much more economical choice.

My  first target was at least a 100MHz scope, but the Rigol 100MHz units are outside my budget. My original budget was $600, but i up'ed it because i want something i wont 'grow' out of too soon and a 50MHz unit simply won't do. The DS2072A seems perfect, because its well under my $1200 budget, allowing me to get a nice separate 5MHz digital function generator and maybe a frequency counter too. Spending the full $1200 on a different scope didn't seem to get me any critical additional features or up to a 100MHz version.

Well, there's also the $400 or so Rigol DS1054z which can be hacked to 100MHz so that might be an alternative. And as I said the built-in generator isn't worth the money if you have to pay for it.

Final Question) When was the DS2072A released? Not the DS2072, but the 'A' version. Whats the difference? Am I getting something (DS2072'A') that is more than halfway through its life cycle?? I hate when i drop almost $1000 on something and a 'new' version comes out 6 months later.

I think the DS2000 came out in 2012 but I might be wrong, and I don't know when the 'A' version came out. However, you should be aware that you're buying a scope from a cheap Chinese B-brand which like all B-brands often throw products on the market with various glitches and firmware problems. The DS2000(A) is probably the most mature Rigol scope, thanks to the fact that it has been on the market for a while and that it has sold in larger numbers. If a new successor scope came out tomorrow, chances are good that it, too, would be plagued by various firmware bugs that will take time for Rigol to sort out (and some may never be fixed, like some of the issues in other Rigol scopes). There are reasons these scopes are so cheap.

[CustomEngineerer]

1) The only (and I mean only) difference between the A model and the A-S is that the A-S has a built in 2 channel arbitrary function generator. Other than that they are identical. My advice is don't waste the extra $350 on the builtin generator, I made that mistake when I bought my DS2072A-S. The controls are clunky and awkward to use, you would be better off putting that extra $350 towards a standalone generator unless you don't have the bench space for both.

2) Pretty sure the bundle includes everything except the bandwidth upgrade. Its not important, the scope can easily be hacked to unlock all options  and bandwidth upgrades. So it really doesn't matter if you get the bundle or not, unless you have some moral objection to liberating the options.

3) Yes, the DS2000A can be bandwidth upgraded to any of the higher bandwidths at any time, by either purchasing the option, or using the hack mentioned above. My DS2072A-S has been hacked to 300MHz.

Final) Not sure exactly when the A series was released. My understanding is the only difference between the non A and A versions is that on the A versions they added the option to switch the inputs to be 50 Ohm terminated, and I believe the other thing was the ability to change the vertical sensitivity down to 500uV (someone please correct me if I'm wrong here). I have no idea when the next version of the DS2000A will be released. I havent heard that the are working on a new one but never know.

There is a thread on this board that is almost always around the first page or two that talks about the tequipment discount, all you have to do is ask in that thread and someone will PM you the code.

[CustomEngineerer]

If a new successor scope came out tomorrow, chances are good that it, too, would be plagued by various firmware bugs that will take time for Rigol to sort out (and some may never be fixed, like some of the issues in other Rigol scopes). There are reasons these scopes are so cheap.

This is pretty much guaranteed. Knowing what I know now I don't think I would be willing to buy a newly released scope from them.

To the OP, not trying to discourage you. I do really enjoy my DS2072A-S, but I don't use it for any serious work. Its purely hobby for me. Still advise against getting the builtin generator, I've already bought a separate generator and never use the builtin anymore. Its just too much of a pain in the ass to switch back and forth from controlling the generator to controlling the scope.

[nowlan]

I thought the A model had a new pcb to allow for MSO option at factory.

Pretty sure the decoders and speed can be unlocked with hacks.

Stick to dedicated function generator as others have suggested.

[billfernandez]

Post a request on the "EEVBlog Members Discount at Tequipment?" topic in this forum and the moderator will send you via private message the discount code you can use in the Tequipment shopping cart.

Regarding frequency counting: 
o A scope will display frequency with a precision of 3-4 digits.
o Many handheld DMMs will count frequency (e.g. Extech 540, up to 100MHz, .1%+1digit accuracy rating)
o Many bench DMMs will count frequency (e.g. Keysight 34461A, up to 300KHx, .01% rated accuracy)
o Some function generators will count frequency (e.g. Siglent SDG2042X, up to 200MHz, lots of digits displayed but accuracy not spec'd)

Regarding a scope-resident function generator:
o Sounds like a royal pain to me.
o The Siglent SDG2042X has a lot of bang for the buck (but is $500 list).
o On the Siglent SDG2042X thread (see page 7) Alan Lowne (CEO of Saelig) says he'll give a 6% discount to EEVBlog readers.  Maybe he's got something you'll like (but call before ordering to see if they're in stock).

[Muxr]

Question 3) I want this to be the only oscilloscope I purchase for at least the next 5 years, probably more. Can the DS2072A be upgraded to 100MHz or higher, at a later date?

DS2072A has been a good scope to me. For one it's an incredible bargain, when you factor in the 300Mhz unlock. Overall it's a pretty capable package for your time domain measurements. It also has quite a bit of very useful features. The measurement menu for instance is probably the best I've seen on a scope. The left button row is dedicated to it, and it's really quick and easy to pull it up.

However it is not without its limitations. The UI is not the best. I don't know how to explain it but when you're zeroing in on a signal you can find yourself having to spin encoders quite a lot, like the trigger and signal will go off the screen and there is really no encoder acceleration to help you cover the ground fast so you will find yourself spinning the encoders a lot. It's not a major issue but it is really noticeable once you use some nicer scopes.

Some features are poorly implemented. Decoding which you can unlock for SPI, i2c only work for data that's on the screen. FFT is also pretty poorly implemented.

Rigol also has a tendency to fix firmware bugs and introduce new ones. For instance the current version has a bug that has prevented a lot of people from upgrading to the latest. So the firmware isn't the best either.

If I were you I would seriously consider the R&S HMO1200 series. Dave did a teardown and a quick overview of it recently:

I think the overall UI and controls are much better. It costs a bit more but it also provides a well implemented FFT and other features where Rigol fails, HMO implements well.

I believe it's a new scope so it's hard to find in the US. However many have used TME in europe to order gear and I found they have it listed just under your budget: http://www.tme.eu/en/details/hmo1212/digital-oscilloscopes/rohde-schwarz/

Whichever one of these scopes you get you won't make a mistake, but having owned a DS2072A I think if I had to do it over I would go for the HMO1200.

[Fungus]

A DS2072A + separate signal generator seems a good choice for a $1200 budget.

If I were you I would seriously consider the R&S HMO1200 series. Dave did a teardown and a quick overview of it recently:

I believe it's a new scope so it's hard to find in the US. However many have used TME in europe to order gear and I found they have it listed just under your budget: http://www.tme.eu/en/details/hmo1212/digital-oscilloscopes/rohde-schwarz/

The R&S is definitely a better 'scope but unlocking a decent set of options gets very expensive.

With Rigol you can unlock everything for free.

Tequipment.net seems to be offering a limited time Free Bonus upgrade to the DS2072A... Advanced Triggering, CAN Triggering decoding, memory upgrade from 14M to 56M, and Serial Data decoder (RS-232, I2C and SPI). The question is, does this include USB decoding? and they claim this is an additional $1108 value, free!. Is that true?

Yes, but you don't need special Tequipment offers to do it, just go here: http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/

Can the DS2072A be upgraded to 100MHz or higher, at a later date?

You can upgrade to 300MHz on day one.

(Actually, I'd wait a couple of weeks. Give the hardware a thorough test before you start messing with it...)

[Wuerstchenhund]

The R&S is definitely a better 'scope but unlocking a decent set of options gets very expensive.

With Rigol you can unlock everything for free.

True, but who pays list price anyways?    Quite often you can negotiate a much better deal with the manufacturer which gives you all the options for much lower price or even free.

[Muxr]

If I were you I would seriously consider the R&S HMO1200 series. Dave did a teardown and a quick overview of it recently:

I believe it's a new scope so it's hard to find in the US. However many have used TME in europe to order gear and I found they have it listed just under your budget: http://www.tme.eu/en/details/hmo1212/digital-oscilloscopes/rohde-schwarz/

The R&S is definitely a better 'scope but unlocking a decent set of options gets very expensive.

Yes it's really a tough call. You definitely get more horsepower from Rigol for less. But HMO1200 is a much nicer scope. If I had to use a scope daily and be stuck with it for the next 5 years I personally would sacrifice the bandwidth (because let's face it other options aren't that great, it really comes down to bandwidth) for well thought out controls and quality of firmware.

In either case they are both good choices. I would consider them both.

[Fungus]

If I were you I would seriously consider the R&S HMO1200 series. Dave did a teardown and a quick overview of it recently:

I believe it's a new scope so it's hard to find in the US. However many have used TME in europe to order gear and I found they have it listed just under your budget: http://www.tme.eu/en/details/hmo1212/digital-oscilloscopes/rohde-schwarz/

The R&S is definitely a better 'scope but unlocking a decent set of options gets very expensive.

Yes it's really a tough call. You definitely get more horsepower from Rigol for less. But HMO1200 is a much nicer scope. If I had to use a scope daily and be stuck with it for the next 5 years I personally would sacrifice the bandwidth for well thought out controls and quality of firmware.

In either case they are both good choices. I would consider them both.

To be honest: For a first scope I'd get a DS1054Z. The other $800 can buy a lot of stuff for a home lab (new multimeter, power supply, soldering iron... a nice workbench)

Then with experience and time you can decide what your next 'scope will be.

[nctnico]

Question 3) I want this to be the only oscilloscope I purchase for at least the next 5 years, probably more. Can the DS2072A be upgraded to 100MHz or higher, at a later date?

DS2072A has been a good scope to me. For one it's an incredible bargain, when you factor in the 300Mhz unlock. Overall it's a pretty capable package for your time domain measurements. It also has quite a bit of very useful features. The measurement menu for instance is probably the best I've seen on a scope. The left button row is dedicated to it, and it's really quick and easy to pull it up.

If I were you I would seriously consider the R&S HMO1200 series. Dave did a teardown and a quick overview of it recently:

No, definitely look at Gw Instek! The HMO1200 is another scope which is very limited so it doesn't eat into it's manufacturer's high end offering.

The R&S is definitely a better 'scope but unlocking a decent set of options gets very expensive.

With Rigol you can unlock everything for free.

True, but who pays list price anyways?    Quite often you can negotiate a much better deal with the manufacturer which gives you all the options for much lower price or even free.

Well last time I checked with R&S and Lecroy I had to pay full price for the options which almost doubled the price of the scope! Maybe if you are a long time customer or buy a lot you can get a freeby but mere mortals just pay list price (a 5% discount is still list price IMHO).

[Muxr]

Question 3) I want this to be the only oscilloscope I purchase for at least the next 5 years, probably more. Can the DS2072A be upgraded to 100MHz or higher, at a later date?

DS2072A has been a good scope to me. For one it's an incredible bargain, when you factor in the 300Mhz unlock. Overall it's a pretty capable package for your time domain measurements. It also has quite a bit of very useful features. The measurement menu for instance is probably the best I've seen on a scope. The left button row is dedicated to it, and it's really quick and easy to pull it up.

If I were you I would seriously consider the R&S HMO1200 series. Dave did a teardown and a quick overview of it recently:

No, definitely look at Gw Instek! The HMO1200 is another scope which is very limited so it doesn't eat into it's manufacturer's high end offering.

They don't have to cripple HMOs to differentiate. RTM and RTO scopes are quite a bit more advanced compared to your usual entry level scope (they aren't going to stick two ADCs interpolated to 5Gs/s in an entry level scope, that's just silly).

I believe HMO1200 is a very nice scope for the money. This is especially true if you concentrate on the ergonomics and day to day usability instead of specs alone. The compact form factor (while still managing to provide a big and clear screen and controls), responsive UI, well implemented features, great controls, and great firmware is at the end of the day very important stuff you end up living with and difficult to convey in a spec sheet.

But do also checkout Gw Instek, some of their new models are interesting, although not my cup of tea.

[Tom45]

As others have said, the -S option isn't worth it unless you are really cramped for space.

The DS2000 series has 2G samples/second, or 1G per channel when viewing 2 channels. That is good for 100 MHz.

The DS1000 series has 1G samples/second, or 0.5G per channel when viewing 2 channels. That is good for 50 MHz. But you have the option to look at up to 4 channels at 25 MHz, something you can't do at all with the DS2000.

[Wuerstchenhund]

If I were you I would seriously consider the R&S HMO1200 series. Dave did a teardown and a quick overview of it recently:

No, definitely look at Gw Instek! The HMO1200 is another scope which is very limited so it doesn't eat into it's manufacturer's high end offering.

*All* low end scopes are limited compared to their mid-range and high-end brethren, which is the main reason why the entry level scopes are so cheap and the more advanced ones cost more, quite often a lot (lower mid-range starts at around $3k, high-end starts at around $13k and goes all the way to >$1M).

The HMO1200 isn't any different. It's a very nice entry level scope at a moderate price, and actually not bad value for money.

Yes, GW Instek is certainly worth a look. I read your review and it's good to hear that they seem to react a lot quicker to firmware issues than Rigol and Siglent. I have no experience with their current scopes but in the past their support wasn't exactly stellar so hopefully they improved on that. It's also worth noting that the GDS2000E seems to be a lot more balanced functionality-wise than the Rigol/Siglent crop. What would turn me off however is the incredibly ugly UI which could come straight from a '90s Tek scope. There's really no excuse that in this day and age an UI has to look that way. The same is true for their exterior design btw, it almost looks as cheapish and toy-like as an OWON. A scope in that price class does not need to look like a $300 scope.

Personally I'd take the HMO1200 over a GW Instek any day.

Well last time I checked with R&S and Lecroy I had to pay full price for the options which almost doubled the price of the scope! Maybe if you are a long time customer or buy a lot you can get a freeby but mere mortals just pay list price (a 5% discount is still list price IMHO).

I might be wrong of course but if I remember right when you asked for LeCroy pricing you went through a reseller (which generally can't offer anywhere close to what you can get directly from the manufacturers, plus they want to make a cut, too), and I guess the R&S quote was for an older used scope (RTM1054) we discussed more recently in another thread? I certainly agree that R&S should have been a bit more sensible re. their pricing for software options of older, discontinued scopes, the simple thing is that your leverage when shopping for options for a scope you already have (or they believe you have) is much lower than when shopping for a new scope in a segment that is full of competition.

The big T&M vendors (except Tek) pretty much fall over themselves to offer deals on new gear. Just today I got an email from LeCroy with offers of in some cases >50% on list price of the basic scope, plus a number of options are included for free. And that is without me even asking for quote, and it's whithout any special customer bonus or anything like that, pretty much everyone can get these prices. Keysight isn't much different btw, and even R&S has such deals (although most of the time they are reserved for those that ask).

Of course there are regional variances (people in the US and UK are probably in the best position, even for R&S which is a German manufacturer but like a lot of stuff is very expensive in Germany), but with some patience (sometimes you have to call again and talk to a different sales droid) pretty much anyone should be able to get more than 5% on a big brand scope or pay base price and get many/all the options you want.

[nctnico]

If I were you I would seriously consider the R&S HMO1200 series. Dave did a teardown and a quick overview of it recently:

No, definitely look at Gw Instek! The HMO1200 is another scope which is very limited so it doesn't eat into it's manufacturer's high end offering.

*All* low end scopes are limited compared to their mid-range and high-end brethren, which is the main reason why the entry level scopes are so cheap and the more advanced ones cost more, quite often a lot (lower mid-range starts at around $3k, high-end starts at around $13k and goes all the way to >$1M).

The HMO1200 isn't any different. It's a very nice entry level scope at a moderate price, and actually not bad value for money.

Yes, GW Instek is certainly worth a look. I read your review and it's good to hear that they seem to react a lot quicker to firmware issues than Rigol and Siglent. I have no experience with their current scopes but in the past their support wasn't exactly stellar so hopefully they improved on that. It's also worth noting that the GDS2000E seems to be a lot more balanced functionality-wise than the Rigol/Siglent crop. What would turn me off however is the incredibly ugly UI which could come straight from a '90s Tek scope. There's really no excuse that in this day and age an UI has to look that way. The same is true for their exterior design btw, it almost looks as cheapish and toy-like as an OWON. A scope in that price class does not need to look like a $300 scope.

Personally I'd take the HMO1200 over a GW Instek any day.

I have never been a fan of Gw Instek either and a lot of their equipment looks like older designs indeed but IMHO its not very wise to judge a book by it's cover. Having an 8" inch 800x480 screen versus a 6.5" 640x480 screen is reason enough for me to run towards the Gw Instek and don't look back. My 90's Tek TDS500/700 series scopes already had 6.5" 640x480 screens (TFT replacements)! Besides that when comparing side by side (including options) the Gw Instek costs about half of a similar outfitted HMO1002 (I think this is the R&S/Hameg model we are talking about). The modern Gw Instek scopes appearantly also pack a lot of generic processing power so they can deal with much larger memories (FFT and decoding for example) without slowing down to a grinding halt.

[Fungus]

if I remember right when you asked for LeCroy pricing you went through a reseller (which generally can't offer anywhere close to what you can get directly from the manufacturers

Home users can't get those prices, can they?

[Muxr]

If I were you I would seriously consider the R&S HMO1200 series. Dave did a teardown and a quick overview of it recently:

No, definitely look at Gw Instek! The HMO1200 is another scope which is very limited so it doesn't eat into it's manufacturer's high end offering.

*All* low end scopes are limited compared to their mid-range and high-end brethren, which is the main reason why the entry level scopes are so cheap and the more advanced ones cost more, quite often a lot (lower mid-range starts at around $3k, high-end starts at around $13k and goes all the way to >$1M).

The HMO1200 isn't any different. It's a very nice entry level scope at a moderate price, and actually not bad value for money.

Yes, GW Instek is certainly worth a look. I read your review and it's good to hear that they seem to react a lot quicker to firmware issues than Rigol and Siglent. I have no experience with their current scopes but in the past their support wasn't exactly stellar so hopefully they improved on that. It's also worth noting that the GDS2000E seems to be a lot more balanced functionality-wise than the Rigol/Siglent crop. What would turn me off however is the incredibly ugly UI which could come straight from a '90s Tek scope. There's really no excuse that in this day and age an UI has to look that way. The same is true for their exterior design btw, it almost looks as cheapish and toy-like as an OWON. A scope in that price class does not need to look like a $300 scope.

Personally I'd take the HMO1200 over a GW Instek any day.

I have never been a fan of Gw Instek either and a lot of their equipment looks like older designs indeed but IMHO its not very wise to judge a book by it's cover. Having an 8" inch 800x480 screen versus a 6.5" 640x480 screen is reason enough for me to run towards the Gw Instek and don't look back. My 90's Tek TDS500/700 series scopes already had 6.5" 640x480 screens (TFT replacements)! Besides that when comparing side by side (including options) the Gw Instek costs about half of a similar outfitted HMO1002 (I think this is the R&S/Hameg model we are talking about). The modern Gw Instek scopes appearantly also pack a lot of generic processing power so they can deal with much larger memories (FFT and decoding for example) without slowing down to a grinding halt.

I was talking about the recently released HMO 1202 not the HMO1002. Yes the screen on the HMO 1202 is smaller, but I do not think that's a handicap, because of the very clever UI R&S employs, compact collapsing menus and more vertical resolution due to virtual waveform space for waveforms with a higher resolution than 8bit. You actually get a bigger waveform area than on a Rigol DS1054z. And in return you are rewarded with more bench space. GW Instek is 384mm (15.1") wide while HMO 1202 is 285mm (11.2"). That's almost one third of the space just sitting there for no real benefit on the GW Instek in my opinion.

You really should watch Dave's video on it. I feel like he covers the UI advantages over your typical entry level scopes quite well, here is a link to the portion where he covers it: https://youtu.be/q_FBwu2K7j0?t=1931

[nctnico]

I don't really see the HMO1202 UI advantages; you still have to push buttons and rotate knobs. On the Gw Instek I have there is a bottom row with functions you can select and a horizontol side menu where you can do adjustments. Very much like my beloved Tektronix TDS500/700 series scopes and it works well because since you can do more from one menu you have less different menus to memorize / go through. Also I'm not impressed with the vertical virtual screen because you can do exactly the same with the channel offset controls.

The reduced width of the HMO1202 is largely due to not having seperate controls for each channel and only space for 2 channels (so no 4 channel version).

The OP should really try a few different scopes thouroughly before making a decission.

[Muxr]

I don't really see the UI advantages; you still have to push buttons and rotate knobs. On the Gw Instek you have a bottom row with functions you can select and a horizontol side menu where you can do adjustments. Very much like my beloved Tektronix TDS500/700 series scopes and it works well because since you can do more from one menu you have less different menus to memorize / go through. Also I'm not impressed with the vertical virtual screen because you can do exactly the same with the channel offset controls.

I wrote that it's not a handicap, not that it was a particular advantage, but the advantage translates to an easy to use scope with clear UI which uses much less bench space. I could go through a laundry list of clever UI features, but instead I will just say quick measurement button combined with the 3 second boot on the R&S scopes is awesome.

Again I have not used GW-Instek scopes, so they also might be a good shout, but from what I've seen from Dave's videos I was not impressed with menus. Dave actually commented on FFT being difficult to navigate while he loved HMO1200 implementation of it.

[nctnico]

The FFT navigation on the Agilent DSO7104 (a $25k scope!) works just like the one on the Gw Instek. It takes some getting used to but once you understand how it works it is not difficult to use. Sometimes a way of controlling something isn't bad but it is just not what you are used. You have to keep that in mind when watching the kind of quick reviews Dave does.

[Muxr]

The FFT navigation on the Agilent DSO7104 (a $25k scope!) works just like the one on the Gw Instek. It takes some getting used to but once you understand how it works it is not difficult to use. Sometimes a way of controlling something isn't bad but it is just not what you are used. You have to keep that in mind when watching the kind of quick reviews Dave does.

Point taken. I'll give GW Instek a spin if I get a chance.

[Wuerstchenhund]

if I remember right when you asked for LeCroy pricing you went through a reseller (which generally can't offer anywhere close to what you can get directly from the manufacturers

Home users can't get those prices, can they?

Yes, they can. Sometimes a sales droid might be too lazy to bother with home users but there's usually always a colleague who isn't. After all, there are incentives for them to sell.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I have never been a fan of Gw Instek either and a lot of their equipment looks like older designs indeed but IMHO its not very wise to judge a book by it's cover.

That's true, but at least for me one thing is that I have to look at the scope and even more so the UI a lot when using a scope, so while the toy-ish looks could be forgiven I just couldn't live with such an awful UI on a device I would use that often. But of course that's just me and YMMV.

Having an 8" inch 800x480 screen versus a 6.5" 640x480 screen is reason enough for me to run towards the Gw Instek and don't look back. My 90's Tek TDS500/700 series scopes already had 6.5" 640x480 screens (TFT replacements)! Besides that when comparing side by side (including options) the Gw Instek costs about half of a similar outfitted HMO1002 (I think this is the R&S/Hameg model we are talking about).

As Muxr said it's the HMO1200 which pretty much just came out. The HMO1000 is an older series with inferior specs.

The modern Gw Instek scopes appearantly also pack a lot of generic processing power so they can deal with much larger memories (FFT and decoding for example) without slowing down to a grinding halt.

Yes, I've seen that. And hats off for GW Instek for putting out a scope where FFT and serial decode aren't just checkbox features for marketing purposes.

[Fungus]

You really should watch Dave's video on it. I feel like he covers the UI advantages over your typical entry level scopes quite well, here is a link to the portion where he covers it: https://youtu.be/q_FBwu2K7j0?t=1931

It's not all good though.

eg. As Dave points out many times in the video: The trigger connector and the trigger control knobs are in the wrong place (should be over on the right  ).