Author Topic: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol  (Read 893218 times)

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Offline AndersAnd

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1925 on: December 19, 2013, 12:38:05 pm »
Strangely, on some pages on the Rigol homepage, the A are rated at 350MHz, while on others they are rated at 300MHz.
It's the same with the RP2200 probes that comes with DS1000E.
At first they were specified at 200 MHz, but later they changed it to 150 MHz.

Here's a scan of the spec sheet in my Rigol RP2200 User's Guide: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/cheap-oscope-probe-quality/msg328232/#msg328232
Notice the 150MHz and 2.3ns stickers on it. You can see some of the 200 below the 150MHz sticker and when I hold it up against the light I can see some of the 1.7ns too.
Thanks AndersAnd.   I wonder if the materials they use now downgrade the capabilities?
How old are your RP2200 probes? I bought my Rigol 1052E with the RP2200 probes in June 2009.
Are you probes older than that?

Or maybe they just forgot to put the stickers in your user's guide. Or maybe they later found out the probe couldn't live up to the 200 MHz BW they originally specified and just put stickers in the manual instead of improving the product to live up to the specs originally planned. I don't think these probes were ever sold with any scopes above 150 MHz BW anyway. Rigol 1152E-EDU with 150 MHz BW is sold on the Chinese market, with these RP2200 150/200 MHz probes too I think.

I just attached a scan of the spec sheet in my Rigol RP2200 User's Guide.
Notice the 150MHz and 2.3ns stickers on it. You can see some of the 200 below the 150MHz sticker and when I hold it up against the light I can see some of the 1.7ns too.



And a scan of another RP2200 User's Guide without any stickers in it: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/cheap-oscope-probe-quality/msg328052/#msg328052
Thanks AndersAnd.   I wonder if the materials they use now downgrade the capabilities?

From my probe datasheet, enclosed.

 

Offline EV

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1926 on: December 20, 2013, 03:54:14 pm »
CAN decoder works!
 

Offline marmad

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1927 on: December 20, 2013, 04:08:18 pm »
CAN decoder works!

Good to know  :) - thanks, EV!
 

Offline Carrington

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1928 on: December 20, 2013, 04:21:13 pm »
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline Mark_O

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1929 on: December 20, 2013, 06:01:58 pm »
CAN decoder works!

Thanks, EV. 

A couple requests.  Could you zoom in on just one packet, so the contents of the ArbID and DLC fields can be seen?  Also, I'd be interested in checking out the Event Table view, to see what it says in the Error field about the lack of an Ack (no other CAN controller on the bus, I assume).
 

Offline NikWing

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1930 on: December 20, 2013, 06:12:34 pm »
finally got mine today :D
and I also got the 10:1 probes ... (I don't really like them though)

hmm, odd ... I have some troubles measuring simple 5 mV and such
the DSO feels kinda sluggish/slow with a timebase of 20 ms ...
I didn't have problems like that with the DSOs I used before :o
also, trying to measure 5 mV (@2mV/div, for example) is not easy, I see a very fat curve lol

the next "problem" I see is, everytime I switch it on my previous settings are gone (and I set it to "last", not "default" state)
 :-//
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 08:58:55 pm by NikWing »
 

Offline EV

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1931 on: December 20, 2013, 06:39:27 pm »
Here you have it! I hope it is what you wanted.


Thanks, EV. 

A couple requests.  Could you zoom in on just one packet, so the contents of the ArbID and DLC fields can be seen?  Also, I'd be interested in checking out the Event Table view, to see what it says in the Error field about the lack of an Ack (no other CAN controller on the bus, I assume).
 

Offline TomThomas

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1932 on: December 20, 2013, 09:06:20 pm »
Did you order more then 1x DS2072?
10% Discount on a single scope + 2x RP3300 probes for free... great!!!
At which Distributor did you order? I'm also looking for a good priced DS2000(A)



I also got two RP3300A with my scope (DS2072 with hw1.0, but only 4 weeks old), while two RP3300 were advertised. Now I really wanted some 1x probes aswell, so I complained a bit (a lot) and finally got 2 extra RP3300 sent home for free. I didnt have to send my RP3300A back. Where I bought my scope, they're asking 45 euro's for a single RP3300 probe! Don't think they made any money from me, I got a 10% discount on my scope (765 euro) and two extra RP3300 (90 euro), so I only paid +- 675 euro for my scope.

Now, since I've got both, I can also compare them! :-)

The RP3300A have a much better feel than the RP3300. Build is better and they're also better isolated. With the RP3300 I get some glitches in the signals when I hold them in my hands the wrong way (finger close to the 1x/10x switch, probably picking up 50Hz in that case). The RP3300A are also a little bit smaller and thinner than the RP3300. The RP3300 have this yellow cap, to 'shield' the ground when probing on a PCB, but it falls off way too easily (for both probes, do others have this aswell?). I don't have a high frequency generator, so can't compare the bandwidth. Strangely, on some pages on the Rigol homepage, the A are rated at 350MHz, while on others they are rated at 300MHz.

If I'd have to chose between the RP3300 and RP3300A, then I'd go for the A! I'm not going to use the RP3300 in 10x mode, the RP3300A feel much better quality and is better isolated, so the RP3300 will be only used for low bandwidth 1x probing.

Btw, I doubt that either the RP3300 or the RP3300A are very good at 300MHz, but maybe someone already tested the bandwidth.
 

Offline apelly

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1933 on: December 20, 2013, 10:22:28 pm »
Just found another brand new feature added to the latest firmware (which, honestly, should have been there from the start):

CURSORS in X-Y Mode:
Oops. Been using this since I got my 2072A. Didn't realise it was missing from earlier versions or I would have said something.
I'd rather a Google clue, link, or some theory than "do this" (generally)
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1934 on: December 21, 2013, 05:05:01 am »
Here you have it! I hope it is what you wanted.

A couple requests.  Could you zoom in on just one packet, so the contents of the ArbID and DLC fields can be seen?  Also, I'd be interested in checking out the Event Table view, to see what it says in the Error field about the lack of an Ack (no other CAN controller on the bus, I assume).

Yes, that's it exactly.  Thanks a lot!

Looks very usable.  Personal preference though would be NOT to try and cram in as much of a "Data:" label as possible for each byte in the stream.  That just makes it harder to see the content.  IMO.

ADDED:  BTW, I was not aware that the Event Table could be constrained NOT to take over the screen and overlay the Bus display.  That's quite nice.

And what's that 2nd tab on the Event table, labeled Details?  If that's been there already, I failed to notice it before now.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 05:11:10 am by Mark_O »
 

Offline EV

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1935 on: December 21, 2013, 06:04:05 am »
Here are details.

.
.
And what's that 2nd tab on the Event table, labeled Details?  If that's been there already, I failed to notice it before now.
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1936 on: December 21, 2013, 07:35:26 am »
Here are details.

And what's that 2nd tab on the Event table, labeled Details?  If that's been there already, I failed to notice it before now.

Thanks again.  That is interesting, and I've definitely never seen it before.
 

Offline NikWing

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1937 on: December 21, 2013, 11:45:16 am »
I saw it too, yesterday, but I can't enable it anywhere lol
(I don't see the details button on the right side or maybe can't select it because it's greyed out ...)

but can anyone help me measuring low voltages without having the fat curve? because, for some reason, on my old HP DSO (with a CRT) the curve was thin ...

anyone else has troubles using the rotary encoder right to the menu button? it really is sensitive
everytime I just press it, it registers a rotation
for example: I try to select a different probe ratio. turning is is kinda sluggishly jumping to the next value, sometimes it skips 2 or 3
and when you push it after it's successfully on the correct value it jumps to the next value and selects this before the menu closes
it wouldn't be a bad idea if Rigol would make it possible to ALSO use the up/down buttons below to select something in the menu that's currently open (instead of the menu below it)
 

Offline marmad

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1938 on: December 21, 2013, 12:07:02 pm »
but can anyone help me measuring low voltages without having the fat curve? because, for some reason, on my old HP DSO (with a CRT) the curve was thin ...

Fat curve? What does that mean? Do you mean the size of the trace? If that's what you mean, the method for reducing it is to limit the input signal - either with the 20MHz or 100MHz channel BW limiter or by averaging - either waveforms (Average) or samples (High Res).

Quote
anyone else has troubles using the rotary encoder right to the menu button? it really is sensitive
everytime I just press it, it registers a rotation

You just have to get used it. Yes, it's kind of a pain - but it seems to be the same on all Rigols (and some other Chinese brands). But you will get used to it - now when I push it it only jumps to the next item perhaps 1 time in 10.

Quote
it wouldn't be a bad idea if Rigol would make it possible to ALSO use the up/down buttons below to select something in the menu that's currently open (instead of the menu below it)

For some menu items, they can be selected by just pushing the corresponding menu button.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 12:09:48 pm by marmad »
 

Offline NikWing

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1939 on: December 21, 2013, 12:21:46 pm »
Fat curve? What does that mean? Do you mean the size of the trace? If that's what you mean, the method for reducing it is to limit the input signal - either with the 20MHz or 100MHz channel BW limiter or by averaging - either waveforms (Average) or samples (High Res).

I'll try that :)
yes, I meant the horizontal width of the curve ... on my old DSO I saw a thin line, here I see lotsa noise when I decrease the timebase :o
20 MHz didn't make it better, reduced it only a little bit ...
I don't have any other options yet on a DS2072A ^^

For some menu items, they can be selected by just pushing the corresponding menu button.

true, I didn't write it because I was lazy ;D
but this only jumps to the next value and not to a previous value :)
 

Offline flolic

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1940 on: December 21, 2013, 12:29:51 pm »

yes, I meant the horizontal width of the curve ... on my old DSO I saw a thin line, here I see lotsa noise when I decrease the timebase :o
20 MHz didn't make it better, reduced it only a little bit ...


Acquire -> Acquisition ->HighRes
 

Offline NikWing

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1941 on: December 21, 2013, 03:01:51 pm »
I'll try and see :)
I've used older HP, Philips and new Agilent DSOs before but there's more difference than I expected to be, I really have to get used to it
I've also noticed that the trigger in auto mode doesn't adjust the level as fast as on my old DSO after I changed the V/div value  :o

btw, I saw animated gif screenshots earlier here on this forum.
how were they created? with the rigol software or frame by frame by hand?
 

Offline EV

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1942 on: December 21, 2013, 03:04:10 pm »
I2C decode has also details in Event table but RS232 and SPI decodes do not.

Thanks again.  That is interesting, and I've definitely never seen it before.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1943 on: December 21, 2013, 03:25:14 pm »
btw, I saw animated gif screenshots earlier here on this forum.
how were they created? with the rigol software or frame by frame by hand?
With the software I wrote: Rigol Ultravision Utilities (RUU) - available in this thread (download link at bottom of first post).  It's especially handy for just getting screen captures from the DSO to the PC in a few seconds - but can also turn recorded frames into animated GIFs or waterfall plots (as well as a bunch of other stuff).

I'm working on a new version now - which will finally allow saving of all file types/sample lengths. Hopefully I'll have it ready within the next couple of weeks...





« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 03:36:17 pm by marmad »
 

Offline murdok

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1944 on: December 21, 2013, 04:39:06 pm »
Can somebody confirm following behavior with latest FW on DS2k devices:

1st channel only -> 2GS/s
2nd channel only -> 1GS/s

At least i can't remember reading anything about that.
I expected to have a drop of maximum sample rate from 2GS/s to 1GS/s only in case when both channels are active at once.
 

Offline Teneyes

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1945 on: December 21, 2013, 04:48:40 pm »
2nd channel only -> 1GS/s
Hi
When you selected CH2 Only , the Trigger was still on CH1 and as it is different requires 1/2 the sampling.
Once trigger is set to CH2 , (same) the DSO will go to 2GSa/s
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 04:54:56 pm by Teneyes »
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Offline EV

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1946 on: December 21, 2013, 04:49:06 pm »
So it is. You can find it even in your user guide on specifications.

Can somebody confirm following behavior with latest FW on DS2k devices:

1st channel only -> 2GS/s
2nd channel only -> 1GS/s

At least i can't remember reading anything about that.
I expected to have a drop of maximum sample rate from 2GS/s to 1GS/s only in case when both channels are active at once.
 

Offline murdok

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1947 on: December 21, 2013, 06:02:58 pm »
Thanks EV & Teneyes,
it was exactly what you guessed - how could i missed that .. argh.

BTW had this problem some days ago when we tried to figure out how good the 'opened' bandwith (lets say noise floor beyond 200MHz) and the probe/cable + shielding is for measuring carriers of some well known rf controlled devices (i.e. FM radio, 433MHz home control systems, etc.)

At least up to 433MHz we got pretty good results (for sure by using extrenal tools for the FFT analysis).
Also noise floor on frequency domain is very even until 500MHz.
 

Offline Carrington

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1948 on: December 21, 2013, 07:39:12 pm »
@Marmad:
The % of blind time (between 200ns and 2ns) in the following table is it real or effective?

My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline NikWing

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #1949 on: December 21, 2013, 09:31:13 pm »
marmad: you wrote that? great! gonna get it :D
btw, I saw waterfall screenshots/pics of DS2xxx DSOs before, so they've been made with this software?
 


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