Author Topic: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol  (Read 789088 times)

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Offline Yaksaredabomb

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2012, 02:19:06 pm »
I went with tequipment - they were on a generator yesterday and today finally got the commercial power restored... with another noreaster brewing off the coast.  Not sure when I will actually get mine.  But I figured they really need orders; probably lost so much because of Sandy.  Make sure you request a quote from them before ordering via the web site.
Thanks for the info on that - glad to hear they have power back.  Any particular reason you suggest requesting a quote?  Is that just good practice or are they maybe backlogged and that would be a chance to let a buyer know?  It's possible I'll want to order one myself from somewhere at some point soon-ish.

Thanks again,
Jacob
My display name changed June 6th from "jneumann" to "Yaksaredabomb"
 

Offline tlu

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2012, 04:56:46 pm »
Hi guys
just ordered 2072 largely based on the reviews here.   The 200 MHz sleeping beast inside looks promising.

I went with tequipment - they were on a generator yesterday and today finally got the commercial power restored... with another noreaster brewing off the coast.  Not sure when I will actually get mine.  But I figured they really need orders; probably lost so much because of Sandy.  Make sure you request a quote from them before ordering via the web site.

Glad to see another member get on board with this scope. I was trying to gathering people together so we can get a 5% discount on our purchase with 5 units. Unfortunately, I did not hear back from any members except jnuemann who is still undecided until next month or so according to him. Well, I got anxious and jump the gun and ordered one last week. I should be getting mine this coming Monday. Even without the 5% discount, it is still a great price.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #77 on: November 07, 2012, 11:59:12 pm »
Since this thread is the latest and currently most active on the DS2000 series, it might make sense to keep general discussion here (least we end up with 20 threads!)
Not to be a wet blanket or anything, but in fact, the whole point of threads stems from the name: that they should be specific. Of course, everybody here (including myself) breaks this rule regularly. But the result of this, unfortunately, is often threads that are 50-100 pages long, filled with reviews, hacks, product information, technical support, etc, etc, and are an absolute bitch to wade through for just one piece of information.

In fact, I screwed up by starting a NEW review thread of the DS2072 when I should have posted my video under JimmySte's thread. It's just that when I posted reviews of the Owon and Hantek, there weren't any other review threads, so I was just used to starting a new one and forgot.

In theory, the two EEVBlog DS2000 threads are specifically about Dave's videos; the two review threads (JimmySte and myself) should be combined as one (perhaps by Dave or one of the moderators?) - with new reviews and impressions added there (for people thinking of buying the scope); and the noise problem thread turned out not to be a problem with the scope but with playfsx's power - and so it should end. Then there should be a new thread titled something like 'Rigol DS2000 series - tips, tricks, software' for people who already own the scope and are looking - not for review information - but for tips and added features, etc, and perhaps another thread devoted to firmware updates and hacks.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 12:12:44 am by marmad »
 

Offline zibadun

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #78 on: November 08, 2012, 01:10:16 am »
Any particular reason you suggest requesting a quote?  Is that just good practice

Yes they will verify stock and send a formal quote. also got a small discount from the web price and I didn't even ask for it :)
 

Offline Sparky

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #79 on: November 08, 2012, 02:31:58 am »
Since this thread is the latest and currently most active on the DS2000 series, it might make sense to keep general discussion here (least we end up with 20 threads!)
Not to be a wet blanket or anything, but in fact, the whole point of threads stems from the name: that they should be specific. Of course, everybody here (including myself) breaks this rule regularly. But the result of this, unfortunately, is often threads that are 50-100 pages long, filled with reviews, hacks, product information, technical support, etc, etc, and are an absolute bitch to wade through for just one piece of information.
<snip>

You're right, Mark. It is good etiquette that posts within a thread remain "on-topic" with the thread title, which makes it much easier to find specific types of information.  I didn't mean for everything Rigol DS2000 to be posted here (I agree -- best to avoid the mess you describe above!), and I tried to indicate that with the "general information" bit...in hindsight I can see that is vague on my part.  For sure, it's best to post where it makes sense, and if that means creating a new thread on a new topic, so be it!  Would be great to have a thread specific to Rigol DS2000 tips n' tricks, software, etc.!  (I'll go edit my earlier post...)

Now, back on topic for me! I've ordered my DS2072 from TEquipment.net also --- am super looking forward to it, and will share my initial experience and thoughts here! :)

Any particular reason you suggest requesting a quote?  Is that just good practice
Yes they will verify stock and send a formal quote. also got a small discount from the web price and I didn't even ask for it :)
This is also my experience.  I actually called and made a change to my order and they still applied a 5% discount.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 05:33:31 am by Sparky »
 

Offline Yaksaredabomb

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #80 on: November 08, 2012, 07:03:54 am »
Any particular reason you suggest requesting a quote?  Is that just good practice
Yes they will verify stock and send a formal quote. also got a small discount from the web price and I didn't even ask for it :)
This is also my experience.  I actually called and made a change to my order and they still applied a 5% discount.

Thanks zibadun and Sparky.  I'll definitely have to keep TEquipment.net in mind and request a quote once/if I decide the DS2072 is best for my needs.  Hopefully they'll still have the discount at that point.  (Not to derail - I have another thread for that decision process and am grateful for the help I've gotten there.)
My display name changed June 6th from "jneumann" to "Yaksaredabomb"
 

Offline tlu

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #81 on: November 08, 2012, 07:35:37 am »
Any particular reason you suggest requesting a quote?  Is that just good practice

Yes they will verify stock and send a formal quote. also got a small discount from the web price and I didn't even ask for it :)

Wow that is terrific. How much of a discount did you get? Now, I may call them to see if I could get that to my order but I'm already charged for the unit. Did they say why they gave you the discount eventhough you did not asked for it? Was this purchase at tequipment?
 

Offline zibadun

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #82 on: November 08, 2012, 07:55:55 am »
I may call them to see if I could get that to my order but I'm already charged for the unit. Did they say why they gave you the discount eventhough you did not asked for it?

May be they were counting on a word getting out...  and it worked ;)   Not sure they *have* to give the discount but may be if you mention this forum or something.  I'm sure they've noticed a bump in 2072s orders and may be wondering where they are coming from
 

Offline Sparky

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #83 on: November 08, 2012, 08:44:22 am »
Wow that is terrific. How much of a discount did you get? Now, I may call them to see if I could get that to my order but I'm already charged for the unit. Did they say why they gave you the discount eventhough you did not asked for it? Was this purchase at tequipment?

Yes, from Tequipment.net.  It was 5% discount, which is ~$40 on the DS2072.  Not huge, but something.  I thought I got a .edu discount as that was my inquiry to them in my request for quote (I gave them my .edu email and university name).  Though, I recall you spoke with them and found that there are no individual or .edu discounts!  So...I've no idea why they gave it to me!  Seems other people have also got it by luck.  At least you got free DSO case from them, correct?

Now, back to DS2072 news :)
 

Offline marmad

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #84 on: November 08, 2012, 09:03:04 am »
Ok, been using the scope 2 weeks - here is a current list of known firmware annoyances/problems/bugs (leaving out unimplemented features - or physical design issues):

1) The scope appears to first clear the display then restart the sweep whenever moving the waveform vertically, changing the vertical or horizontal scale, moving trigger position, turning on/off channels, etc. At faster timebase settings this isn't much of a problem, but when doing any of these things with divisions >=50ms, the scope can feel unresponsive. I'm wondering if this might be attributed to what I'll call the 'Owon effect' (having just one routine for something, no matter the memory size) - because the sample depth settings do not change the response time. It's as if the scope is always dealing with 56MPts in this regard. Maybe it has to act this way in case the memory is being used as history ('Record Open'); i.e. the memory is a third dimension to any sample size.

2) The way the scope handles intensity grading in delayed sweep mode needs some work - it doesn't appear to be the same as if you just stop the sweep and zoom in via the horizontal scale (I can't quite figure out why this would logically happen). Sometimes the grading is just too light to see well and you need to turn up the intensity settings.

3) When you turn on tracking cursors (if all cursors off), the measurement window doesn't appear. You can workaround this by cycling through (via the menu button) to manual cursors and back to tracking.

4) X-Y channels are reversed.

5) Self-calibration will automatically expire any trial options currently running.

6) [Added 09/11] AUTO routine sometimes fails to latch onto signals. I'm not sure about the exact circumstances - member EV says that it has to do with 2 channels, but I'm fairly certain it has worked for me with 2 channels sometimes (and others not). Perhaps someone can test and figure out the parameters of this bug.

7) [Edited 09/12] If you use the FINE horizontal scale adjust at scales >=20ms (Press -> [Horizontal] Menu -> ScaleAdjust -> Fine), the max/min horizontal trigger position becomes locked to the next lower major division*10/14 - instead of staying 10x/14x of whatever the actual setting is.  This can cause the trigger position to jump and become frozen (with the 'Parameters overrange!' message) in the middle of the display. See this message for more details.

Anyone reading this with a DS2000 or DS4000 that can point out something else, feel free to chime in.

Edit (09/11): According to Rigol, #1 is just because they happen to do the restarting of the sweep the opposite way (first clear - perform function - then redraw) from other manufacturers, who leave the old waveform on the display when you move it, change scale, etc. - which is how I expected they'd respond. Well, the other way is better I think (whether they are equivalent or not - it just feels more responsive). Anyway, hopefully if enough owners complain about it, they'll change it eventually.

Edit (14/12): I'm moving this entire list to the first post of the thread to make it more easy to find.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 08:23:00 pm by marmad »
 

Offline tlu

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #85 on: November 08, 2012, 01:05:41 pm »
Hi Marmad,

Again, thanks for the updates. It seems #2 and #3 are just annoyances that can be worked around by the user but finding #1 is kind of troubling to hear. I've dealt and know what you mean by the 'Owon effect' and I really don't like it at all. Hopefully this can be tweaked in the firmware to get faster response time at >=50ms time base. Great fine and thanks for reporting in.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #86 on: November 08, 2012, 01:11:18 pm »
Another interesting piece of data about the 'Record Open' mode:

For those who haven't watched the review - or couldn't quite get what I was talking about - in 'Record Open' mode, the scope divides the memory into as many slices as it can based on the current sample depth (e.g. 56M/14k = 4000 [the maximum number is 65000]), then starts writing the captures into those slices (frames) continuously, looping back and overwriting from the beginning when it overruns the last frame. At any point you can stop the scope and jog back through the previous frames - looking at the history of the waveform over time. Then you could just restart the scope - again recording - or else process the timeslices with bus decoding or analysis.

I was curious what kind of effect using this mode would have on the wfrm/s update rate, so I checked it at various timebase settings. It appears it has no effect on the rate (as it shouldn't, if just done with pointers). Also, you can actually see the tangible speed of the update rate in the time tag of the recorded frames: i.e. using the smallest sample depth at the 20ns/div setting, the wfrm/s = 50k, so each frame is 20us - the reciprocal of 50k.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 01:14:31 pm by marmad »
 

Offline Sparky

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2012, 01:47:31 pm »
Very helpful posts @marmad, thanks!  Itemizing the bugs/annoyances will come in handy when checking if issues are resolved by firmware updates, and is good to prioritize issues we'd like to see resolved when contacting Rigol.  Definitely #1 on your list ("unresponsiveness") would seem to be the most frustrating aspect right now.

Thanks for going to the trouble of explaining more about how the scope functions --- really helpful information.

When a few more of us have scopes on hand (next week it seems!), we will have more end-user experiences.  We probably all emphasize different features of the scope depending on what we are working on, and so should be able to have additional things to discuss here --- at least this is how I hoped to contribute knowledge!
 

Offline tlu

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2012, 02:22:03 pm »
Well, mine is scheduled to arrive on 11/12/12 which is next week. I will also try to confirm so of the bugs and annoyances on mine to see if anything changed in the firmware from the time marmad got his but I highly doubt it. The supposedly next firmware release for the DS2072 is on 11/15/12 according to Dave and John South I believe who is a Rigol reseller.

I'm glad to have more time to spend on the scope Marmad. Well, one thing that worries me is every time you play with it you find something new. Given the fact this is a newly introduced model since June of this year, I can see not everything is ironed out. Good work in all these findings. You are probably the one only solely pinging all these bugs and annoyances at the moment it seems  ;).
 

Offline EV

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2012, 06:50:37 pm »
- here is a current list of known firmware annoyances/problems/bugs (leaving out unimplemented features - or physical design issues):


Good list, I have not found anything to add to it, but when pressing AUTO button the scope does not find signals for both channels.

Real time 9.995 seconds gives exactly 10 seconds on the horisontal scale.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 07:46:31 pm by EV »
 

Offline marmad

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #90 on: November 09, 2012, 09:26:56 pm »
Good list, I have not found anything to add to it, but when pressing AUTO button the scope does not find signals for both channels.

Thanks for the reminder - I had noticed (but forgotten) that there was some strangeness in the AUTO routine - I will add it to the list above.

Quote
Real time 9.995 seconds gives exactly 10 seconds on the horisontal scale.

I'm not sure what you mean by this - can you be more specific?
 

Offline EV

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #91 on: November 09, 2012, 10:24:16 pm »

Quote
Real time 9.995 seconds gives exactly 10 seconds on the horisontal scale.

I'm not sure what you mean by this - can you be more specific?

Sorry about my bad language. Look at the pictures:
 

Offline marmad

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #92 on: November 09, 2012, 10:46:43 pm »
Sorry about my bad language. Look at the pictures:

No problem about the language - we do the best we can  :)  I understand now.

As far as I can tell, I don't have this anomaly on my scope. If I look at a 1Hz square wave at any timebase (1s/500ms/200ms,etc), it's exactly on the grid lines. Are you sure your sweep time is accurate?

Edit: Attached image of 1Hz square wave

Edit2: Changed image to one with brighter grid

Edit3: Just double-checked Normal and Single trigger modes: in either case (on my DS2072), a 1Hz square wave lands exactly on the grid lines at any horizontal scale.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 11:07:05 pm by marmad »
 

Offline EV

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #93 on: November 09, 2012, 11:14:10 pm »
Are you sure your sweep time is accurate?


Propably the problem is the acccuracy of the sweep time of the function generator. I tried also external GPS locked time reference, but it did not change it.

Then I checked this accuracy with 0.1 mHz pulse and there is no error on the time scale. So the problem is not cause of the oscilloscope.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #94 on: November 10, 2012, 12:18:43 am »
Then I checked this accuracy with 0.1 mHz pulse and there is no error on the time scale. So the problem is not cause of the oscilloscope.

Good to hear  :)
 

Offline tlu

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #95 on: November 13, 2012, 06:47:34 pm »
Hi Marmad,

Just out of curiosity, what persistency setting do you have the scope on for normal use? Just received my scope today and starting to play with it. This might have came up before but I did notice the waveforms blinks in and out of the screen when moving it either in the horizontal or vertical position. I vaguely remembered someone mentioned this issue before.

So far, loving it. Still going through some of the features it has. I found selecting an option with the push in multi-function knob kind of iffy as it can slip and you will end up with the previous or next setting. I found a workaround which requires only to select the option you want with the mult-function knob and if you are set with that option, just press the menu button rather than push the knob in. This guarantees your selection sticks and I'm using it constantly rather than the push in feature for selecting.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #96 on: November 13, 2012, 09:48:29 pm »
Just out of curiosity, what persistency setting do you have the scope on for normal use?

I use the standard Min setting - which gives you the normal analog scope feel; I would only use something higher if I was looking for anomalies.

Quote
This might have came up before but I did notice the waveforms blinks in and out of the screen when moving it either in the horizontal or vertical position. I vaguely remembered someone mentioned this issue before.

It's #1 on the list of known firmware annoyances/problems/bugs I posted earlier.

Quote
I found selecting an option with the push in multi-function knob kind of iffy as it can slip and you will end up with the previous or next setting. I found a workaround which requires only to select the option you want with the mult-function knob and if you are set with that option, just press the menu button rather than push the knob in. This guarantees your selection sticks and I'm using it constantly rather than the push in feature for selecting.

Yes, I mentioned this in the video review as one of my annoyances (but I find it's the same on every scope when you have to make a selection by pushing a rotary encoder).  I also try to use the workaround method you describe - but unfortunately, it doesn't work for every item (e.g. trigger selection).
 

Offline tlu

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #97 on: November 13, 2012, 11:53:43 pm »
Quote
I use the standard Min setting - which gives you the normal analog scope feel; I would only use something higher if I was looking for anomalies.

Thanks for the respond. Yes, you are right on the trigger menu part as I did failed to mention it in the workaround. However, where I can avoid having to push in the knob I do.

Are the options still functioning on your dso? Is the count down still happening?
 

Offline marmad

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #98 on: November 14, 2012, 12:02:44 am »
Are the options still functioning on your dso? Is the count down still happening?

Nope, my trial options are currently expired - although I did get a mysterious full extra 35 hours after the initial period was expired (it reset itself). Also, I still have a spare trial license code from Rigol (courtesy of my distributor) to use - but I will save it until I really need it.
 

Offline tlu

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol
« Reply #99 on: November 14, 2012, 12:12:07 am »
Quote
Nope, my trial options are currently expired - although I did get a mysterious full extra 35 hours after the initial period was expired (it reset itself). Also, I still have a spare trial license code from Rigol (courtesy of my distributor) to use - but I will save it until I really need it.

Well, at least we know the options do not last forever  :o but I'm happy that you have 35hrs in reserve.

Can the firmware be backed up just in case some mysterious power outage takes out the scope for no apparent reason?
 


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