Author Topic: REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol  (Read 886595 times)

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Offline Teneyes

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FW 00.01.01.00.02
A small Bug also associated with the Trigger setting of AC Coupling
Note  Wim13 has already reported that there is large Trigger Jitter when this mode is selected

I appears that also in this mode of AC coupled Trigger,
the Display of the waveform is NOT in the  correct position.
The waveform position is 50nSec to the left (early)
The offset in a fixed amount of time 50nSec

But when the trigger is DC coupling the Position is correct.at the center of the Display

In order to demonstrate,
the animated displays showing a frequency sweeping,
in order to better see where the Trigger point is
Trigger level =0.0
Trigger position should be at the Center

 
 1   DC coupling, NO offset
 2.  On  100ns/div the offset of 50nsec  is  1/2 div
 3.  On   50ns/div the offset of 50nsec  is  1  div
 4   On   20ns/div the offset of 50nsec  is  2 1/2 div
 

See next 3 posts

#1 On 100ns/div for DC coupling there is No offset
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 04:39:20 pm by Teneyes »
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Offline Teneyes

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  #2 On 100ns/div the offset of 50nsec = 1/2 div
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 04:36:03 pm by Teneyes »
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Offline Teneyes

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 #3 On  50ns/div the offset is 50nsec = 1 div
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 09:50:35 am by Teneyes »
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Offline Teneyes

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  #4  On 20ns/div  offset  50nsec = 2 1/2 div
Note the 8-12nsec Jitter
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 10:28:52 am by Teneyes »
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Offline Teneyes

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On  50ns/div the offset is 50nsec = 1 div horizontally

And Now with the Trigger level set at 200mV, 1 div Up
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Offline Wim13

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About the AC and DC trigger...


@Teneyes:
Connected to ch 2 the trigger output to see what happens to the trigger signal

The input signal on both pictures is the same, that did not change.
See also the change in the freq. counter..

Strange effect, on AC the trigger output become more stable, picture 1
and on DC the source signal is more stable, picture 2

This is very strange behavior...
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 06:20:11 pm by Wim13 »
 

Offline Teneyes

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About the AC and DC trigger...
The input signal on both pictures is the same, that did not change.
See also the change in the freq. counter..
Strange effect, on AC the trigger output become more stable, picture 1
and on DC the source signal is more stable, picture 2
This is very strange behavior...

We already Know there is Jitter on the Trigger Output (and delay)
I am guessing: 
  In DC mode to make the Display stable and program is placing it correctly
  but allows the Trigger output to Vary

  In AC mode  the Display Has some  jitter and the Trigger output has some jitter,
  a different program
  I think, if you added the 2 jitter amounts of  the AC mode you we be close to the DC trigger out Jitter.  Maybe capture each single frame to check

Oh Oh, so if they Fix the DC trigger out Jitter we get Display Jitter
I hope it is not Hardware,
but it is Hi speed Interrupt program instruction timing to figure out

Oh Yes in AC the Counter is using the trigger, so if Trigger level is too high there is No Counter Freq.(<15)

PS if you notice the Blog is shorter, as I have deleted my BAD guesses and small talk


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Offline Carrington

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I hope it is not Hardware,


What?  :wtf:

Shortly after buying my SDS8102V was discovered the noise problem (HW).
And now that I've bought a DS2072 if it appears that also has a hardware fault then ...  :o :rant: |O
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline Wim13

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Maybe hardware..we dont know ...and:

Well we are using these DSO for months now, and nobody has ever tried AC trigger mode ...

so it seems not to be a real problem...
 

Online EV

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so it seems not to be a real problem...

It is a bug, but not very serious if not found earlier.
 

Offline Carrington

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How many hardware versions are up to date?
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline marmad

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Shortly after buying my SDS8102V was discovered the noise problem (HW).
And now that I've bought a DS2072 if it appears that also has a hardware fault then ...  :o :rant: |O

 ::) I hardly think it's the end of the world. My Tektronix analog scope doesn't even have coupling choices for the trigger - and I can't say I've ever used AC-coupling for the trigger on a DSO yet.
 

Offline Carrington

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Yes you're right, "I hardly think it's the end of the world."

Only I wish it was not a hardware failure.
If it is, do not want to jinx myself, but lately everything goes wrong.
Let us trust in the experience Rigol.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 08:10:20 am by Carrington »
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline marmad

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If you're right, "I hardly think it's the end of the world."

Only I wish it was not a hardware failure.
If it is, do not want to jinx myself, but lately everything goes wrong.
Let us trust in the experience Rigol.

I've been using my DS2000 happily for over 8 months with absolutely zero regrets and only minor problems.
 

Offline Carrington

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Anyone have an image of the input stage of a DS2072?
To compare with this (DS2202):
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/8022205124/#in/photostream/lightbox/

SMD Marking:
  6U -> MMBFJ309, N-Chanel RF Amplifier.
  3E -> MMBTH10, NPN RF.
  1B -> BC846, NPN.
  JY ->  BAV199, low leakage double diode.
  B7A -> AD8510

Would be very interesting see the frequency response until the input of the LMH6518. And a schematic of the entire input stage would also be great.




If there are "common desing HW" (inherited) between the DS2072 and DS1052E, then I want to believe that this failure is not due to hardware.  :)
http://elinux.org/images/c/c6/Das_oszi_schematic.pdf



https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-360-rigol-ds2000-oscilloscope-teardown/120/
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 03:42:26 pm by Carrington »
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline checksum

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Hi,

I Just wanted to say hello.

I bought a DS1072 here in the UK and recived it a few days ago after a 5 weeks waiting for delivery. The rigol is my second scope, some time ago I bought an Owon SDS7102 but it has been next to useless because of the SDS7102 “ground noise” issue. Making the choice to invest again this time in a Rigol was made much easier by all of the great information posted here by Marmad and all of you and Dave’s video review. What a great resource this has been, a big thankyou to you all for taking the time to revew and report on DS2000. I’m extremely pleased with the Rigol, what a fantastic bit of kit  :-+

I’m interested to know how to reset option min counters (boy they seem to drop fast) if anyone would like to PM me but I’m happy to post more first if that makes folks more comfortable sharing this information.

The DS2072 was supplied with
Firmware 00.00.01.00.05
Hardware Version 1.0.1.0.0
FPGA
SPU 03.01.02
WPU 00.06.00
CCU 12.29.00
MCU 00.05


Checksum.
 

Offline Chalky

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I’m interested to know how to reset option min counters (boy they seem to drop fast) if anyone would like to PM me but I’m happy to post more first if that makes folks more comfortable sharing this information.
I have a tool that you can run on Windows, it'll auto-scan both USB and LAN, and automatically push any licence keys you may have into the scopes that it finds.  I have no idea which licence keys you might own, or which ones out in the wild are legitimate trials etc. so I've left that part to you.  You'll need to add your licence keys into the config file.

This other thread is discussing licences, they might know which ones are legit.  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sniffing-the-rigol's-internal-i2c-bus/msg256481/#msg256481

P.M. me, and I'll send you the app.  It's certainly rough & ready.
 

Offline DD4DA

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I bought  an Rigol DS2202here in germany yesterday and tested them with the Rigol Ultravision Utilities V2.03  unter Windows 8 x64 with usage of the USB link instead the Ethernet, where is use in normal circumstance.
My UTD-4152c  (2GS/s @150Mhz 2 Channel) will be reselled next and is replaced reasoned by the missing of serial analysis- and LXI feature. This was a cheap scope two years ago and did a satisfied job this time. I had replaced them because i got the DSA815-TG last year and would joint them with usage of LXI feature - the capabilities of a common, documented and nearly open communicaton and data transfer protocol make the job quite easier for me. Well, the Rigol DS2202 got a nice wide screen to show a signal and the resolution of the screen makes it more readable. The I2C, SPI analysis looks great, even that a license need to be payed until the trial time ended. Advanced Trigger option and the deeper memory seems to be a nice feature too, but i don't know if i need that actually. Well, this is just a key-based option that could be installed anytime later, if required.
The released Hack's are nice to see, what's possible, but looks anyway unprofessional and you lost the warrenty of the device.
My messuring equipment are references and there values must be reliable - no space for experiments. The license fee for the options are not so expensive like them from HP, TEK or R&S. I got an offer for about € 188.- for the lic of each option - not an unfair price for that.I had checked some signals like an eye-diagram and this looks great on the screen. The decode feature if SPI looks also great - especialy for faster signals. Cheaper logic analyzer like them from Saelogic can't decode, if the electrical signal envelope is wrong.
The practical handling needs to be tested longer, so be patient.

Greetzs   
 
 

Offline Carrington

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After reviewing several semiconductor datasheet of the input stage, and see how similar this is to "previous versions" (DS1000). It is very possible that if it (DS2000) do not use digital filtering of the signal to set the bandwidth, then maybe we could get without much difficulty A BW of 300/400MHz by SPI commands to the LMH6518. Assuming that the differential amplifier with adjustable gain is a "complete" version of the LMH6518.

Cheers :)
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline Pinkus

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then maybe we could get without much difficulty A BW of 300/400MHz by SPI commands
Whatfor? The scope has not been calibrated for this. Maybe a 70Mhz scope was only calibrated for 70 Mhz so even 100 or 200Mhz measurements are not valid.
Usually you need a scope for measuring ... at least I would like to get a valid measurement. Data from uncalibrated devices are often not very useful.
 

Offline ve7xen

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Anyone have an image of the input stage of a DS2072?
To compare with this (DS2202):
  http://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/8022205124/#in/photostream/lightbox/
I don't think I took any photos, but I did compare my DS2072 to Dave's photos and couldn't find any differences by eye.
73 de VE7XEN
He/Him
 

Offline Carrington

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Thank you very much ve7xen, then only to be confirmed the value of unmarked smd resistors and capacitors, to claim that they are identical.
Unfortunately these resistors may be the key.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 07:07:39 am by Carrington »
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline marmad

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Thank you very much ve7xen, then only to be confirmed the value of unmarked smd resistors and capacitors, to claim that they are identical.
Unfortunately these resistors may be the key.

The fact that the models are physically identical was already confirmed in this forum 9 months ago. This is old news.
 

Offline Carrington

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The fact that the models are physically identical was already confirmed in this forum 9 months ago. This is old news.

Obviously I did not know it.
Also was confirmed that the unmarked smd resistors and capacitors are identical?
Thanks
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 12:18:24 pm by Carrington »
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline marmad

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Obviously I did not know it.
Also was confirmed that the unmarked smd resistors and capacitors are identical?
Thanks

This is what was reported by a dealer of the DSO.
 


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