REVIEW - Rigol DS2072 - First Impressions of the DS2000 series from Rigol

[tequipment]

if you email us we can send you pricing

salesteam@tequipment.net

Or we can just post it tomorrow if someone sends me an email reminder.
Thanks
Evan

[marmad]

Rigol's changelog from last two DS2000 firmware releases. I am not responsible for any Chinglish

1. E: Enhancements; C: Cancellation; M: Modification

Version:00.02.01.00.03   Date:2013-11-04
1.  (E) Modify the option license.
2.  (E) Added the AUTO disable command.
3.  (M) Fixed the data error.
4.  (M) Fixed offset error when the amplitude of source is over 1.6v.
5.  (M) Fixed the invalid measure issue when open delay measure.
6.  (E) Added multi-language(German/Korean/Poland/Japan etc).
7.  (M) Fixed the error trigger status when it is Pass/Fail mode and normal trigger.
8.  (E) Hold the bandwidth limit after auto setting.
9.  (M) Fixed the start data when read the data form scope.
10.(E) Optimized the AUTO trigger mode in every horizontal scale.
11.(M) Fixed the FFT center freq changing when change the horizontal scale.
12.(M) Fixed the band rate of RS232 error when it is 57600bps.


Version:00.01.01.00.02   Date:2013-06-06
1. (M) Optimized  the .csv file accuracy  in DC coupling.
2. (M) Fixed the UART decoding error when baud rate is 10400.
3. (M) Fixed the crash when math advanced is “CH1==CH2”.
4. (M) Fixed storage and recall waveform error in ROLL mode.
5. (M) Fixed trigger delay in 500uV/div.
6. (E) Added file name when printing screen.
7. (M) Fixed measure error when delete some measure items.
8. (M) Fixed trial license lost when do self-calibration.
9. (E) Optimized source setting for DS2000-S series.

[neslekkim]

Which usb sticks are people finding that works on the scope?
In the manual of my ds2202a-s, it's written that one should not use bigger than 8GB, and that small starts to get more and more difficult to get now, and since some people have noted that not all do work, I was wondering.
I guess normal ones like Kingston and SanDisk should work fine?

[PA0PBZ]

I tried a few nonames ranging from 1 to 8 GB and even a branded 32GB one and they all worked. Not to say that anything will work but it does not seem to be very critical.

[Altemir]

Which usb sticks are people finding that works on the scope? [...]

I tried to use ~18 types of USB flash disks (Sandisk, Transcend, Kingston, Toshiba, card-readers and many others...), but only 2(!) types worked very well in bootloader mode with DG4000: Chinese noname 2GB (red) and 512MB (black)!
I used Red and black drives on Rigol DG4162, DG4062 (5 different), DS2012, MSO4024 in bootloader mode. I tried to use 4 types of disks with DS2000's bootloader, worked only noname For image storage all types of drives work very well, except Kingston DT-R500 (32GB) on MSO4024.
Flashdrive info from red USB-disk:

Code: [Select]

Protocal Version: USB 2.00
Current Speed: High Speed
Max Current: 100mA

USB Device ID: VID = 1221 PID = 3234
Serial Number: 2010042716480359

Device Vendor: USB2.0
Device Name: Flash Disk
Device Revision: 0000

Manufacturer: USB2.0
Product Model: Flash Disk
Product Revision: 3.00

Chip Vendor: Micov
Chip Part-Number: 3.00

Physical Disk Capacity: 1939865600 Bytes
Windows Disk Capacity:  1939603456 Bytes
Internal Tags: AA2E-QAHS
File System: FAT
ContMeas ID: 3CC6-01-00
Note, that Chip Vendor is Micov. VID/PID - the most common for Chinese disks. Red drive I got on some conference, and black drive I got with TI Cortex-M4 kit. Note, that boxes of both drives is identical.

[marmad]

I found what appears to be another bug in the current FW - although it's not serious.  I can't say if it exists in pre-v.2 FW because I never really used this Trigger before - although I did TRY to use it once or twice - and found it very unresponsive (which would likely be because of the below-mentioned bug) - so I have a feeling it's been around for many FW versions.

I discovered it while working on the extended screen info for Triggers for the upcoming RUU 3.0: it seems as if Rigol got the parameter names backwards on the Windows Trigger. Look at the image - it's supposed to be a Trigger on exiting the Window with a rising edge. In fact, it's entering the Window with a falling edge. Both Enter/Exit and Rising/Falling appear to be operating in reverse.

EDIT: As pointed out by Wim below - not a bug, but a misunderstanding of the terms by me - although I think Rigol could name the trigger and it's settings in a better, more intuitive way.

[Wim13]

Well i dont have that,  my DS2000 works oke in windows trigger

What was the position of your position button ?

See my picture, it starts at going up, dotted line  and exits on trigger position steady line ,
( not on the steady line before trigger point, but on trigger point )

If you put the position on Time, you get the uprising positions

[mrubbert]

Option DSEZ working fine with: DS2072 HW101 FW213 (override old DSAZ).

Looking foreward to work with automotive CAN bus now, even if it obvius if one of the boxes dosent respond, it might help to go deeper and repair the disturbed network or the relevant box it self.

Many thanks !   
Also start to like the option knob now, it is understanding my touch now 

( the links in 1 page dosent lead you to FW213 )

[mrubbert]

Some one else mentioned this "bug" before, but just to elaborate (and it's been added to the bug list on page 1):

All SCPI commands related to CAN triggering and decoding appear to be missing in the latest FW. A bigger PITA is the fact that the mode is not correctly reported for TRIGGER, although it is for DECODE. That means if BUS1 is set to CAN, and you query:
:BUS1:MODE?
...you get:
CAN
...even though you can't change any of the parameters of the BUS.

But if TRIGGER is set to CAN, and you query:
:TRIG:MODE?
...the VISA connection times out, and any software (like RUU) will believe the DSO has been disconnected (since :TRIG:MODE? should ALWAYS return a value).

Ohhh, sucking rigol if its only for HW1 people.
Have to try normal CAN bus use in garage now,
0 degre celsius outside with no heater at moment, But thats just in specifications on this scope. Humidity 85 (max 95 in spec).   

[Galaxyrise]

See my picture, it starts at going up, dotted line  and exits on trigger position steady line ,
( not on the steady line before trigger point, but on trigger point )

The key is what's happening at the trigger position, not what happened before it.

I went and had a read of the manual.  Page 5-16. As you have it configured:
"trigger on the rising edge of the input signal when the voltage level is greater than the preset high trigger level"
+
"trigger when the input signal exits the specified trigger level range"

However, your screenshot shows the waveform with a FALLING edge ENTERING the specified trigger level range at the trigger position.  So you have confirmed the bug Marmad found.

However, the docs are a little confusing.  Consider "rising" + "enter": you can't be rising, greater than the high trigger level, AND entering the level range.  So maybe the documentation should be taken with a grain of salt...

[Wim13]

I dont agree.., read the manual ,

here an other picture , now on position time, and here is what ypou want..
on the rising edge..

On this picture it is not a bug...!!

[marmad]

What was the position of your position button ?

All the information is in the bottom line of my image.

See my picture, it starts at going up, dotted line  and exits on trigger position steady line ,
( not on the steady line before trigger point, but on trigger point )

Sorry, your image confirms the problem - it is NOT triggering on Exiting the Window - it's triggering on Entering. Rigol has definitely made a mistake, either with their English translations - or their understanding of what those terms mean.

[Wim13]

What was the position of your position button ?

All the information is in the bottom line of my image.

See my picture, it starts at going up, dotted line  and exits on trigger position steady line ,
( not on the steady line before trigger point, but on trigger point )

Sorry, your image confirms the problem - it is NOT triggering on Exiting the Window - it's triggering on Entering. Rigol has definitely made a mistake, either with their English translations - or their understanding of what those terms mean.

It is easy to  proof that you are wrong.., change the T1 cursor, and you will see that it changes the trigger point
and that is the exit.

And why is it in time mode correct...?? See my second post and image


Even in enter mode it works correct...

It is all correct

[marmad]

It is easy to  proof that you are wrong.., change the T1 cursor, and you will see that it changes the trigger point
and that is the exit.

Sorry, it's easy to prove you are wrong.   Here is an image of Windows Trigger set to trigger on EITHER edge when ENTERING the WINDOW. In fact, it's triggering on either edge when EXITING the WINDOW.

ENTER / EXIT / WINDOW: These terms are very easy to define and understand in English - and this trigger is NOT following the correct definitions of these terms.

It's working correctly as long as you consider the screen as 2 separated windows (with a dead-band in-between) - which makes sense, I suppose, given that it's called 'Windows' - but not super-intuitive, IMO.





EDIT: As GalaxyRise noted: the manual contradicts itself - but that IS the problem/bug. The terms/definitions Rigol has chosen do NOT work the way you would expect.

[Wim13]

I still dont agree, i still think it works correct.

But how to tell, it is in the definition of enter or exit the trigger level.

I try: the sine wave goes to the first T2 rise, the the trigger knows it has to wait for the signal to exit
the window T1 level, the first hit of T1 is the enter mode, the second hit is the exit.

[marmad]

I still dont agree, i still think it works correct.

But how to tell, it is in the definition of enter or exit the trigger level.

I try: the sine wave goes to the first T2, the the trigger knows it has to wait for the signal to exit
the window T1 level, the first hit of T1 is the enter mode, the second hit is the exit.

But the trigger is called WINDOW - meaning an area of the screen defined by two opposing sides. If they meant just 2X Level Triggers, they should have named it that.

[Wim13]

It is called window, thats is correct but, it is not only in between, but also NOT inside is a window.

How should they differ enter and exit then..? as T2 is the first action to check.
then T1 is the second if it passes.., is this enter or exit..?

You have rise, - down, and exit - enter, that gives four possibilities.

[marmad]

I still dont agree, i still think it works correct.

But how to tell, it is in the definition of enter or exit the trigger level.

Following your (and Rigol's) definition, I get EXACTLY the same outcome with a Windows ENTER trigger and a Slope > trigger - which is really stupid and not at all intuitive.

[marmad]

It is called window, thats is correct but, it is not only in between, but also NOT inside is a window.

I understand that - but then I think they choose the wrong name for the Trigger - at least as far as English is concerned. If I'm defining something with 4 sides (two screen edges and the two levels), I think of that as the Window. Perhaps the name Levels would be more appropriate - and a better description of what's happening.

[Wim13]

About your post before: Using the same sine wave, gives the same outcome,

but try a complex signal, a dual tone or something with different hights in it,
then you see the advantage of windowing.

[Wim13]

It is called window, thats is correct but, it is not only in between, but also NOT inside is a window.

I understand that - but then I think they choose the wrong name for the Trigger - at least as far as English is concerned. If I'm defining something with 4 sides (two screen edges and the two levels), I think of that as the Window. Perhaps the name Levels would be more appropriate - and a better description of what's happening.

yes i do agree with that, entering a level should be more understanding, or crossing a level.

[marmad]

About your post before: Using the same sine wave, gives the same outcome,

but try a complex signal, a dual tone or something with different hights in it,
then you see the advantage of windowing.

But my problem isn't with the trigger - just with the, IMO, confusing/misleading terms used to describe what's happening. But I see now that it's not a "bug" when viewed the way you describe it - I just wish Rigol would clarify it with better terms.

Anyway, I'm happy to remove it from the list on page #1

EDIT: ...also went back and stuck-out the first post claiming it was a bug.

[Galaxyrise]

But how to tell, it is in the definition of enter or exit the trigger level.

Ah, so you're saying "high" + "enter" means "enter the region above the high threshold" not "enter the region between the thresholds."  That explains why the manual calls it "Windows" (plural) trigger!  Yeah, everything does make sense with that meaning (except the "rising edge of the input" part of the manual.)  Thanks  

[Wim13]

You can still write it is confusing, i read again the manual, but indeed,

Rigol writes, about the window trigger::

entering or leaving a specific level..., not a window, and there is the confusion

And, it is has a position to the first level T2, and the trigger level T1,
depends on going down or up

[marmad]

Ah, so you're saying "high" + "enter" means "enter the region above the high threshold" not "enter the region between the thresholds."  That explains why the manual calls it "Windows" (plural) trigger!  Yeah, everything does make sense with that meaning (except the "rising edge of the input" part of the manual.)  Thanks  

It definitively makes more sense when you think of it as 2 Windows with a dead-band - but the definitions are still non-intuitive. When I set a Trigger to happen on a Falling edge - I expect the trigger to take place ON the Falling edge. This doesn't work that way - so the names/terms should be different because they aren't working like every other Falling/Rising edge trigger.

Rigol is also using the same edge icons that they use with triggers that actually trigger on an edge - so not good. They should be different - or the icons should automatically invert depending on ENTER/EXIT selection.