First oscilloscope for hobbyist

[Powernun]

Thank you for your help everyone. I decided to go with the Micsig due to the reasons I mentioned above. The other scopes are perfectly suitable for their price points, but the Micsig just suited my requirements better.

My next purchase will be an AWG and that should make my starter lab complete (for now at least).

 


no

The more time I spend on this forum the more likely it is I will join Test Equipment Anonymous....

[Martin72]

I got this feeling too...
As I entered this forum, I was intererested for the rigol 5000.
Now I got a "bigger" scope than this, several currentprobes, 7 or 8 powersupplies, real good multimeter (Brymen - Don´t knew them before) and lots more…

[jemangedeslolos]

Thank you for your help everyone. I decided to go with the Micsig due to the reasons I mentioned above. The other scopes are perfectly suitable for their price points, but the Micsig just suited my requirements better.

My next purchase will be an AWG and that should make my starter lab complete (for now at least).

 


no

The more time I spend on this forum the more likely it is I will join Test Equipment Anonymous....

Yes it's very annoying, you will feel good for a day or two until you come across a situation where you will need a new probe, a low noise preamp, an electronic load, a SMU and you will spend as many nights looking at the datasheets as finding the arguments to justify the purchase 

[gfmucci]

Who was the first one on this forum to recommend the Instek to me?  Thank you!

I just ordered my Instek 1054 for $292, no tax, free delivery in US from TElectronics.

Reasons:

*Good reviews
*Best FFT's in the price range
*Separate channel controls
*Deep (enough) memory, fast refresh
*Model has been out for a few years; most "new scope bugs" have been resolved; many updates since beginning
*Instek (the company) is responsive
*Intended uses won't require higher bandwidths
*No need to be portable; it isn't going anywhere - it's staying on the bench
*Plan to place it on a small 7" tall 15" wide (same as scope) acrylic shelf from Walmart for <$9 to save some space. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-Stacking-Storage-Shelf-Clear-Chrome/528972739

I didn't get a lesser ~$150+/- more of a "beginner" scope because I want to rely on accuracy within decent specs while I'm learning, although there are some accurate scopes in the $100 to $250 price range BUT within very limited specifications.  I may not have enough mileage remaining to trade up later.

I am an old beginning beginner, aka "old noob."

[Calaverasgrande]

MG Chemical lead free is terrible. I tried saving a few bucks over Kester and regretted it. Nasty stuff. Toxic VOC byproducts that are worse than any pb solder rosin fumes.

[RF-Engineer]

Thank you for your help everyone. I decided to go with the Micsig due to the reasons I mentioned above. The other scopes are perfectly suitable for their price points, but the Micsig just suited my requirements better.

My next purchase will be an AWG and that should make my starter lab complete (for now at least).

No doubt you will like the Micsig.  I have the Siglent model you mentioned as well.  Both are very capable in their price range but the Micsig has become my "go to" scope.  One reason is its portability.  I can just grab it and test anywhere without hunting for the nearest AC outlet.  The knobs + touch screen is a great combination and I use both.  The Micsig is also a LOT less bulkier in a travel case than the Siglent.

Someone mentioned in a teardown video that the Micsig channel 1-4 engagement buttons have LEDs but they don't illuminate.  No big deal since the active channels show up on the screen.  Still it would be nice to have the back-lit buttons work as long as the LEDs are already there.

Speaking of which, we need more of our gear to have back-lighted panel legends with variable intensity just like our automobile dashboards.  It's a pain to shine a light on the control surface to find the right control in low light conditions.  That's one benefit of the Micsig - the entire scope can be operated from the touch screen.

Paul
 

 

[daveyk]

"Micsig STO1104C"

That is too cool. Shame its available at 150MHz maximum.  I wonder about it measurement capabilities (PW and setting the Reference Points for PW)?  It would be a great portable scope.  Being battery operated, you could work on tube equipment without fear of blowing it up without an isolation transformer (or even with one).

[uargo]

prices in ebay Europe:

Rigol DS1054Z  463€
https://www.ebay.es/itm/Rigol-DS1054Z-Osciloscopio-Digital-50MHz-4-Canales-1GS-S-Digital-Oscilloscope/112691976460?hash=item1a3cf7190c:g:CBYAAOSwu4BVh~4u

Siglent SDS1104x-E   510€
https://www.ebay.es/itm/Siglent-SDS1104X-E-Oszilloskop-4-Kanale-1-GS-s-100-MHz/273321028530?hash=item3fa333ebb2:g:QRIAAOSwZgheOuMZ

GW insted  GDS-1054B  755€
https://www.ebay.es/itm/Oszilloskop-digital-Band-50MHz-Kanale-4-10Mpts-1Gsps-1-st/163721213897?hash=item261e8b77c9:g:LhAAAOSwEYJc-I5e

Micsig STO1104C  640€
This  i cant found in ebay, but yes in european shop
https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Micsig-STO1104C.html

Of these 4 oscilloscopes I choose Siglent SDS1104x-e and Micsig STO1104c, that are more modern powerful and complete
The battery on micsig is great for car job

[nctnico]

Those Ebay prices are insane. From www.eleshop.eu :
GDS-1054B : 409 euro (ex. VAT)
DS1054Z: 324 euro (ex. VAT)

[Elasia]

Yeah those prices are all nuts

Even batronix for a rigol is 339 euro which you can get a forum discount for another 6-7% off

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.html


Siglent 1104 - 429 euro

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS1104X-E.html

[tv84]

Yeah those prices are all nuts

Even batronix for a rigol is 339 euro which you can get a forum discount for another 6-7% off

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.html


Siglent 1104 - 429 euro

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS1104X-E.html

Those prices are without VAT.

[Elasia]

Yeah those prices are all nuts

Even batronix for a rigol is 339 euro which you can get a forum discount for another 6-7% off

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.html


Siglent 1104 - 429 euro


https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS1104X-E.html

Those prices are without VAT.

yeah only thing that makes sense is they precalculated a vat estimate and stuffed it into the listing

[Powernun]

I find eBay not having most of the stock of the European stores. I usually manually check the following ones:

UK:

• Digi-Key - https://www.digikey.co.uk
• Farnell - https://uk.farnell.com
• Labtronix - https://labtronix.co.uk
• Mouser - https://www.mouser.co.uk/
• Telonic - https://www.telonic.co.uk
• Tester - https://www.tester.co.uk

Europe:

• Banggood (shipping from UK or Europe) - https://uk.banggood.com
• Batronix - https://www.batronix.com
• Batter Fly - https://www.batterfly.com
• eBay - https://www.ebay.co.uk
• Eleshop - https://eleshop.eu
• eVision Systems - https://evision-webshop.de
• hagglezon (Amazon European store aggregator) - https://www.hagglezon.com
• TME - https://www.tme.eu
• Welectron - https://www.welectron.com

[ResistorRob]

Just an idea/suggestion:

Would it be a good idea to make a sticky thread for "I'm a hobbyist looking to buy my first scope".
This same question gets asked every week here. The answer always boils down to the same 5 scopes.
Maybe just make a really detailed buying guide covering the pros, cons,  features, and differences between them.
Then if after reading all that someone still needs help they can reply to that thread.

[tv84]

I find eBay not having most of the stock of the European stores. I usually manually check the following ones:

I heard about Brexit but I thought they'll remain in Europe...   

[nctnico]

Those prices are without VAT.

They have to be because the VAT rate is different in each country and webshops need to charge the VAT rate of the country of the buyer.

[tv84]

Not so, nico.

If I buy in Batronix, I'll pay the german VAT of 19%.  (The portuguese would be 23%.)

Code: [Select]

Do I have to pay the German VAT?
It depends. You have to pay the 19% German VAT if:

you are a private person living inside the EU
You don´t have to pay the German VAT if:

you are ordering for an European company with a valid and registered VAT number
you are ordering from outside the EU ( this includes Switzerland and Norway for example)

https://www.batronix.com/shop/shopping/vat-information.html

[gfmucci]

"Value" Added Tax.  What "value" is being added with that tax?

[tv84]

"Value" Added Tax.  What "value" is being added with that tax?

I can answer for the "subtracted" part...

[nctnico]

Not so, nico.

If I buy in Batronix, I'll pay the german VAT of 19%.  (The portuguese would be 23%.)

Code: [Select]

Do I have to pay the German VAT?
It depends. You have to pay the 19% German VAT if:

you are a private person living inside the EU
You don´t have to pay the German VAT if:

you are ordering for an European company with a valid and registered VAT number
you are ordering from outside the EU ( this includes Switzerland and Norway for example)

https://www.batronix.com/shop/shopping/vat-information.html

This snippet doesn't apply to a private person buying from Batronix. Anyway, the official EU website is a much better source:
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/vat/index_en.htm

.. Instead, they have to apply VAT in the country where the goods are delivered – VAT of destination

But it also depends on the turnover of the company per country (to make things more complicated). Most webshops seem to charge the destination VAT regardless.

[Fungus]

I find eBay not having most of the stock of the European stores. I usually manually check the following ones:

I heard about Brexit but I thought they'll remain in Europe...   

Nah, they'll go from being half in to being half out.

[tv84]

This snippet doesn't apply to a private person buying from Batronix. Anyway, the official EU website is a much better source:
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/vat/index_en.htm

.. Instead, they have to apply VAT in the country where the goods are delivered – VAT of destination

But it also depends on the turnover of the company per country (to make things more complicated). Most webshops seem to charge the destination VAT regardless.

I have done many web buys in EU countries and I was never charged by portuguese VAT.

That shows that most EU webshops (and Batronix is one example) charge the origin VAT and not the destination VAT.

If you read carefully the link you posted, you'll see that they would only have to charge the destination VAT to a taxable person not entitled to deduct input tax if the product exceeded 12.500€.

[Gandalf_Sr]

It's been over 20 years since I lived in the UK but the simple rule I understood was that an item bought in the EU that had tax paid on it in the country of purchase could then be taken/ shipped to any other EU country with no other taxes due. People in the UK bought cars from Belgium where the taxes were much lower than in the UK although you ended up with a left-hand drive version.

For US folks reading this thread, VAT is simply the equivalent of our sales tax.  Non-US people may be interested to know that different US states have different sales tax rates, Washington State charges 9.21% and Michigan 6%.  If I buy a car in Michigan, I pay 6% sales tax (no other stupid taxes like in the UK) so an Audi A4 I bought in Michigan cost me less in US dollars in 2000 than it cost in the UK in pounds and the exchange rate was around 1 pound = $1.75 (UK VAT is 20% currently).

A year or so back there was a 'feature' that you could live in state A (e.g. Michigan), buy something from state B (e.g. a computer from Dell in Texas), and pay no sales tax but the current US government stopped that and most states now charge sales tax on internet sales in either the state the buyer lives or the seller is based.

[nctnico]

It's been over 20 years since I lived in the UK but the simple rule I understood was that an item bought in the EU that had tax paid on it in the country of purchase could then be taken/ shipped to any other EU country with no other taxes due. People in the UK bought cars from Belgium where the taxes were much lower than in the UK although you ended up with a left-hand drive version.

A lot has been changed since then!

[tautech]

Just an idea/suggestion:

Would it be a good idea to make a sticky thread for "I'm a hobbyist looking to buy my first scope".
This same question gets asked every week here. The answer always boils down to the same 5 scopes.

Which could be totally different/outdated in just 6 months.
Whoever is the sticky's OP would need to maintain such a thread and we already have the DSO chart as a sticky.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/digital-oscilloscope-comparison-chart/

Bit like watching 3 year old YT vids and making purchase decisions on outdated info.