First picture on EEVblog of the new R&S MXO4 series oscilloscope :)

[shabaz]

Hi,
(Hopefully people are not bored of looking at 'scope traces - I just thought these ones looked nice).
I was working on a little project today, and by chance there was a good reminder to me that it is well worth checking at higher frequencies, for spurious emissions.
The first screenshot (ac-before-modification.jpg) shows the problem, which was occurring with a BJT+transformer oscillator. I used the normal 'scope probe supplied with the MXO 4, connected to the output.
That screenshot shows that visible parts of the anomaly could be spotted and zoomed-in, but the log-frequency-axis spectrum analysis was handy to see both the fundamental (25 kHz) and harmonics, as well as all manner of spurious content around 30 to 90 MHz.

I had some small ferrite cores, I put them into the base of the transistors, and then the situation was greatly improved, as can be seen in the second screenshot.

The photo shows the ferrite cores.

[Martin72]

Hi Martin,

the ENOB test oscillator schematics is at the bottom of the ENOB page.

regards
  Wolfgang

Hi Wolfgang,
Thank you for adding also the gerber files on the ENOB page. 
I´ve ordered the pcb (JLCPCB) and now...
...it ready for the first test. 

[Bernd_2]

I'm thinking of buying the MXO4 Bundle and have read the Specs and the Manual.

What I'm missing is the XY-Mode that is standard even with the RTC1000. Does anybody know if the XY Mode will be implemented? And if so with Z-Mode?

And I wonder if the Zone Key means Zone-Trigger an will set to work soon.

[Martin72]

7789€ incl. VAT for the 200Mhz ? This must be a fake...

https://www.galaxus.de/en/s4/product/rohde-schwarz-mxo44-242-mixed-signal-table-oscilloscope-4-channel-analogue-analogue-digital-200mhz-d-23916761

[ebastler]

7789€ incl. VAT for the 200Mhz ? This must be a fake...

https://www.galaxus.de/en/s4/product/rohde-schwarz-mxo44-242-mixed-signal-table-oscilloscope-4-channel-analogue-analogue-digital-200mhz-d-23916761

Dunno... that seller is a Swiss company originally. Maybe there is some re-importing happening, and prices in Switzerland are lower? (Ha ha, not according to my experience travelling there...  )

Galaxus sell pretty much everything. The only time I ordered something from them (a Swiss-made household product which was not available elsewhere), they eventually canceled the order four weeks later, stating that the manufacturer had discontinued the product. They were polite and apologetic about it though and refunded my pre-payment right away.

[goaty]

Here's one at Batronix for 7500 excl Vat:
https://www.batronix.com/shop/sales/index.html

[egonotto]

Hello

Igor from igorsLab had problems with Galaxus

https://www.igorslab.de/galaxus-toppt-media-markt-um-laengen-fiese-masche-mit-falschen-lieferterminen-und-einem-fiktiven-aussenlager/

https://www.igorslab.de/en/galaxus-tops-media-markt-by-a-long-way-nasty-scam-with-false-delivery-dates-and-a-fictitious-external-warehouse-investigative/

Best regards
egonotto

[DaneLaw]

Even down at 7289 EURO back in the first half of the year. 1/4-23
Sketchy' if that also should carry EU VAT.

[shabaz]

I tried some third party probes with the MXO 4. These ones are for hands-free probing fine points on a PCB that might not have test points.
I thought they were not bad; a nice problem-solver for the times you want free hands to focus on controlling other equipment, or spending a bit longer fine-tweaking captures or obtaining longer measurements - I used it for capturing long periods of slow I2C traffic.
Annoyingly I purchased the model without the 10:1 attenuation indicator pin on the BNC connector : (

[tooki]

...i would assume zone trigger will not be added free of charge but as an option later on.

Zone will be a free upgrade.  And it's really good 

Any word on this?

[tooki]

Tektronix does the same with their new 2 Series

Everyone does it, siglent, rigol also.
You buy a fully loaded scope in every case.
Even when you buy the basic model, every costs are into the price for it plus bonus.
And when you relase an option like freeing a prisioner, it will make more plus.
Therefore they can make "promo-offers" like all options including, without weeping in their cushions.
And therefore I don´t have any problems to free prisioners without paying ransom money.

Thats not what i meant. Selling options is fine for me of course. There is cost involved to develop software options and its clear for me that it costs money. For example if a bode plot function saves a lot of time at work because i don't have to sweep it manually this money is justified.

Tektronix released the 2 series without the MSO function implemented. Advertising features that are not there but might be in the future is the problem. At least R&S doesn't promise anything in particular and just advertise what is already there. ...

Weeeeeeelllll...

Early brochures/datasheets and price lists for the MXO 4 listed the MXO4-K530 option (aerospace serial decode) both separately and as a component of the options bundle, and also mentioned mask testing as "coming in a future update". All mention of those has since vanished (as I suppose the Zone button on the front panel would, too, if it weren't hardware...).


I also wish R&S were clearer on whether the digital channels do or do not require a software option. Buying the mixed-signal option includes two digital probes, but the MXO5 brochure claims you can just borrow them from another MXO4 or MXO5. (Meanwhile, the part number of said digital probes is shared among many other scope models, too.)

[shabaz]

Just wanted to share a screenshot if people are interested in seeing more of the spectrum analysis!
I was looking at the output from a MAX2870 frequency synthesizer board (cheap board from AliExpress) and decided to try three different instruments. The settings are not like-for-like, admittedly, but to see the spectrum trace fidelity with the MXO is remarkable. The screenshots are for a 30 MHz signal, with the sweep across a wide spectrum range (20-400MHz) to see harmonics.

The normal SAs take several seconds per sweep and so averaging is slower. The MXO display updated perhaps 50-100 times quicker, i.e. it was very real-time.

One of the new features in the software release from last month, is menu pinch-to-zoom. I initially didn't understand the use-case for that. However, now it came in very handy to resize the spectrum controls menu, so it wouldn't get in the way of the trace, so that I could deliberately do a screenshot with the settings in there visible.

[tooki]

One of the new features in the software release from last month, is menu pinch-to-zoom. I initially didn't understand the use-case for that. However, now it came in very handy to resize the spectrum controls menu, so it wouldn't get in the way of the trace, so that I could deliberately do a screenshot with the settings in there visible.

Nice post!

What software update from last month? I checked last week (and again just now) and the website still shows the October release, 2.0.3.

[shabaz]

Thanks!
Sorry, I just checked, I too am running F/W 2.0.3.0. I forgot I'd upgraded that toward the end of last year, and not a month ago.

[rbe]

Greetings fellow EEs. I work as a design engineer specializing in power supplies, and I'm seriously contemplating the purchase of a R&S MXO44-242 variant. I've negotiated a discount of a few hundred euros from the initial advertised price. Despite this, it is still a relatively expensive piece of equipment and find myself a bit hesitant about making the final decision. I know this is a cutting edge oscilloscope with great specs, but it seems to lack several measurement/other options, which are available as separate purchases.

In essence, I am trying to justify this purchase and wonder if there might be future special offers from R&S where they bundle these additional measurement options together at a more affordable price compared to buying them individually. I am aware of the 'MXO4-BNDL' that is currently selling here in Europe at around €20,000 (excl. VAT) with BW of 1.5 GHz and additional options, but this is definitely outside of my budget at the moment. I would like to hear your thoughts on this so I can clear up my mind going forward. Thanks in advance! 

[tooki]

I think the market is a bit slow now in general, which is why everyone is extending their promos. So if you need something now, jump on it, but if you have something to use at the moment, I wouldn’t rush. There WILL be another special. And remember that the end of the year is when the sales reps have targets they want to reach, so that’s when you can negotiate a bit more.

[radar_macgyver]

i convinced my boss to spring for the MXO4-BNDL to replace an aging Tek MSO 4054. Only had it for a month, and I find the MXO4 to be leaps and bounds ahead of the Tek, though it's not a fair comparision to a much older instrument. The spectrum analyzer is really nice, very fast update rates. I have it mounted on a VESA monitor arm (with a quick disconnect), frees up some bench space. Can't add much that hasn't been covered by, say, @shabaz and others. The included probes are 700 MHz, and feel very nice in the hand. Compared to the Tek P6139A, they are lighter and thinner, the cables are equally stiff. The spring-loaded tips are nice, but take a bit getting used to.

I also ordered a single active RT-ZS20 1.5 GHz probe (I had a TAP1500 to work with the Tek). Again, haven't had much quality time with it yet, but it seems well made and feels nice in the hand. Unlike the TAP1500s, the probe body doesn't get uncomfortably warm.

The MXO4's drawbacks I've come across so far:

• UI is a bit sluggish - using the vertical position dials to move the traces has a noticeable lag. Similar to the MSO 4054, but a lot worse than Keysight 3 or 4000 series. Really hoping R&S can improve this.
• Though I'm running the latest firmware, I've seen a few bugs pop up now and then. For example, if I leave the scope running for many days, it can get into a mode where the reference level indicator for the traces disappears, and the left and right borders of the screen start flashing, as if the traces are being overdrawn on top of the edges of the graticule. The only fix for this is to reboot the scope. Next time it happens, I'll take a video.
• When the scope is in the mode described above, the I2C decode seems to randomly not decode frames. May be related, but after the reboot it worked flawlessly
• After running any of the apps, for example the frequency response app, the scope effectively does a factory preset, rather than returning to the previous settings.

My place of work is such that it's hard for me to use the 'order the instrument today and pay for the options later' model since it's hard to justify a several kilodollar purchase that's 'just software' (I've had inventory management asking me where they can place the asset tags for a Fieldfox option I bought, for instance). The BNDL offer makes all this go away, and it was fortunate that we had the budget for it.

[tv84]

For example, if I leave the scope running for many days, it can get into a mode where the reference level indicator for the traces disappears, and the left and right borders of the screen start flashing, as if the traces are being overdrawn on top of the edges of the graticule. The only fix for this is to reboot the scope.

  Unacceptable on a R&S device.

[pdenisowski]

The MXO4's drawbacks I've come across so far:

• UI is a bit sluggish - using the vertical position dials to move the traces has a noticeable lag. Similar to the MSO 4054, but a lot worse than Keysight 3 or 4000 series. Really hoping R&S can improve this.
• Though I'm running the latest firmware, I've seen a few bugs pop up now and then. For example, if I leave the scope running for many days, it can get into a mode where the reference level indicator for the traces disappears, and the left and right borders of the screen start flashing, as if the traces are being overdrawn on top of the edges of the graticule. The only fix for this is to reboot the scope. Next time it happens, I'll take a video.
• When the scope is in the mode described above, the I2C decode seems to randomly not decode frames. May be related, but after the reboot it worked flawlessly
• After running any of the apps, for example the frequency response app, the scope effectively does a factory preset, rather than returning to the previous settings.

Thanks for letting us know.  If you haven't already, could you contact our North American Support Center about these issues?  I'll try to reproduce them on my MXO4, but it would be helpful if you could open a case so that we can investigate and fix these issues. 

USA: Phone: 1-888-837-8772 (1-888-Test-RSA), email: customer.support@rsa.rohde-schwarz.com

Incidentally, we do have a new FW release coming out very soon (checking on exact date right now) and that might address some of the things you're reporting.

Thanks again!

[radar_macgyver]

Will do. I was going to try and capture a video of this, though the second time it happened I was in the middle of debugging a board and rebooted the scope to get things working (that's when I noticed the I2C decode issue).
Also, just for completeness, the reference indicator of all traces except the currently selected one disappear when the scope gets into that funny mode.

[nctnico]

For example, if I leave the scope running for many days, it can get into a mode where the reference level indicator for the traces disappears, and the left and right borders of the screen start flashing, as if the traces are being overdrawn on top of the edges of the graticule. The only fix for this is to reboot the scope.

  Unacceptable on a R&S device.

Maybe some kind of milli-second timer overflow issue. A tell tale sign is that the problem occurs after about 49 days.

[radar_macgyver]

Today I found my MXO44 is no longer showing the reference marker (the triangle with 'C1', 'C3') for the selected channel again (my bad, I had the sense inverted in my previous post). In the attached screenshot, I have CH1 and CH3 with the included 700 MHz probes connected to the probe comp terminal. When the screenshot was taken, CH1 was selected. Note that while CH3's reference indicator is shown, CH1 is not.

You will note that I have Settings->Appearance->'Show Labels' turned off (I find the labels distracting). On a hunch, I turned the setting back on, and used the touch-screen to toggle between CH1 and CH3 active, and both the channel reference markers are shown again. If I turn off the setting, they disappear again. Strangely, a reboot did *not* fix it this time, I have to keep the labels on to see the reference markers.

I've also forwarded this message to R&S customer support.

Not sure if I've had the scope powered for 49 days, but it has been left on continuously on the bench.

[dav888]

interesting read.. seems like most scope vendors are stuck with old platforms

I might be wrong, but even the new R&S MXO5 series, 500 Mpoints memory isn't super impressive considering you can get on a modern laptop. I like what Aaronia is doing with dual USB 3.x ports to double the throughput.

just tried the MXO5 and sure, the update rate of 4.5m waveforms per second is high, but the user-interface makes it feel like a super-slow vintage computer, so even though you might be able to capture stuff, it feels like you're operating a vintage scope from late 90's

I can see a few brands listed in this thread. what are peoples opinion, 8 vs 10 vs 12-bit, who has the best UI (i.e. fast/smooth, not too much crappy touch ux with microscopic popup-dialogs and pc-buttons)

[shabaz]

I think it's got a decent architecture. It's got (from what I can tell) a multi-core multi-tens-of-Gbps-throughput processor for its data plane, where more and more features can be added (I believe the MXO 5 uses two of them, i.e. the architecture can allow for paralleling in some fashion or other. A block diagram showing how acquisitions are processed and where features are run would be great to see!

I don't know Aaronia products (I'm on the lookout for a decent SDR), their interface requirement depends on how much RF bandwidth needs to be captured, and it's very likely they offload any significant processing onto the PC like many SDRs. Perhaps I'm wrong; the system requirement for their software seems quite basic; 2GB RAM, 1.6 GHz quad-core CPU.

I'm currently working with a NVIDIA Jetson board (funnily enough, troubleshooting it with an MXO4), and while the general processing cores on the NVIDIA chip (ARM) are nothing to write home about, the cores which will handle the actual data (CUDA cores) are more interesting, and data is processed without it having to pass through the ARM cores, once that data is in memory. For sure that's a different architecture too, I just bring it up as an example where an architecture can significantly differ from older PCs.

I've looked back at my initial notes/issues lists (with the first release of the software) and UI slowness didn't make my list, everyone has different expectations there, not denying that some scopes may have a smoother UI, and I find some parts of workflow could be improved (for instance, when saving logic captures, it's a hassle saving in several formats, I'd rather save all formats in one go). But I hope they do focus on features as much as possible, get them out the door since they appear to have a decent software release cycle, and UI speed isn't currently so slow to be noticeable when in the zone getting captures/measurements etc. The response to touch always feels extremely snappy to me, but of course the buttons/rotary controls are interfaced differently to that).

[rbe]

New firmware version 2.1.3.2 has been released for those that own this piece of equipment.
Download link: https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/in/firmware/mxo4/
Release notes : https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/pdm/firmware/1335_5272_00/MXO4_Release_Notes_2.1.3.2.pdf