First scope, lost in the reviews

[staze]

Some quick google looks like the Rigol CAN work in Labview: http://sine.ni.com/apps/utf8/niid_web_display.download_page?p_id_guid=88AF154718E95366E04400144FB7D21D

But curious if anyone has had success (specifically on the Mac)?

Thanks!

[staze]

Oh, and how are the probes? Heard a lot of "these things feel flimsy". Has that improved recently?

[staze]

And damn, after watching this:

Now I think I just need to save up for the 2072. But like people have said, first scope, do I need that much, etc. ugh. sucks.

[EEVblog]

I think Dave's is from 2009

Mine is from late 2008 IIRC, back when the prices dropped dramatically to $700 (and then promptly halved again 6 months after I bought it :->)

[staze]

I think Dave's is from 2009

Mine is from late 2008 IIRC, back when the prices dropped dramatically to $700 (and then promptly halved again 6 months after I bought it :->)

And? Still use it all the time? Is it your primary scope? If so, anything it doesn't do that you really wish it did, or have to use some other scope to do?

[EEVblog]

And? Still use it all the time? Is it your primary scope? If so, anything it doesn't do that you really wish it did, or have to use some other scope to do?

You haven't been watching the blog have you? 
It's now my home scope, and Sagan's daily play toy, so it gets abused a LOT, but rarely used.
My main scope is an Agilent 3000X.
Basically, unless you are absolutely strapped for every last cent, I would not recommend anyone buy the DS1052E any more. The DS2000 series offers 10 times the features and performance for just on double the price.

[staze]

And? Still use it all the time? Is it your primary scope? If so, anything it doesn't do that you really wish it did, or have to use some other scope to do?

You haven't been watching the blog have you? 
It's now my home scope, and Sagan's daily play toy, so it gets abused a LOT, but rarely used.
My main scope is an Agilent 3000X.
Basically, unless you are absolutely strapped for every last cent, I would not recommend anyone buy the DS1052E any more. The DS2000 series offers 10 times the features and performance for just on double the price.

Actually just found the site a few weeks ago, so no, haven't watched it all. =)

Thats.... what I was afraid of. =/

[Deckert]

Basically, unless you are absolutely strapped for every last cent, I would not recommend anyone buy the DS1052E any more.

I'd disagree with the above statement. The cost factor for an after-hours tinkerer/hacker is a lot more important and the cash saved when buying the 1000-series can go into other kit like a good bench PSU, soldering iron, DMM, etc. I find myself in much the same space the original poster; by day I write C++ code for large unix systems used in the telco space. In the evenings I sit and hack Arduino and TI MSP430 code and build little projects from PSUs, chargers, NTP time-sync kit to a mpu-controlled electric blanket.

Doing the above I find the 1000-series more than adequate for what I do (I actually have the Atten ADS1102CML of which I did a review elsewhere, but it's in the same class as the Rigol 1000 series). In fact, in almost a year of having this scope there's nothing I did that I couldn't measure with it.

The DS2000 series offers 10 times the features and performance for just on double the price.

I don't dispute the above fact - and believe me, I drool over the WFU rate of the Rigols and Agilents, but at the end of the day, my current scope handles everything I throw at it. Having the extra cash allowed me some freedom to get my bench set up and kitted out with Raaco drawer systems, good LED lighting, a swing-arm magnifying light, etc.

If you've got the budget, by all means go for the 2000-series, but if not, using the 1000-series for tinkering/hacking really does not present any challenges.

--deckert

[ivan747]

One thing about Mac software: you really need Windows. Grab a Windows XP license from an old computer and install it under VirtualBox (free), VMWare or Parallels. Keep the virtual machine for electronics except when working with PDFs. I find Apple's text rendering much better and the scrolling much more natural and faster than under a virtual machine or regular Windows. Get XP because it is compatible with practically everything and I am sure it will still be for at least 4 years.

[MacAttak]

Yeah, while a number of EE tools offer Mac versions (Eagle for example), you will eventually run into a situation where what you want will ONLY run on Windows. I use Parallels on my Macbook and like it a lot. With Coherence mode (same thing as VmWare Fusion), the desktops are merged and you rarely even notice the fact that some things are running in a virtualized Windows installation.

I don't recommend trying to use the latest version of Windows with it - it works OK in Parallels/VmWare/etc, but some of the software packages you might want to run don't always run well on the latest and greatest operating system version. Stick with Windows 7 for the best experience. XP is nice and stable but it is very old and was supposed to be past support sunset by now. The only reason Microsoft still supports it is because there are so many holdouts still using it.


But generally speaking, you can have the best of both worlds that way. When software you want to use offers a OS X version, then you can use that... and for others you can just use the Windows version without really worrying much about it.

[c4757p]

XP is nice and stable but it is very old and was supposed to be past support sunset by now.

Eh, my car's past support sunset but it still moves down the road when I push the gas pedal.

[nerdyHippy]

XP is nice and stable but it is very old and was supposed to be past support sunset by now.

Eh, my car's past support sunset but it still moves down the road when I push the gas pedal.

I reckon security updates are more important for a Windows machine than your car.

[travellerw]

I did exactly what Dekert did.. I used the extra cash to buy better quality other gear. I just couldn't justify double the price for the stuff I was doing with the scope..

On another note, my scope is only 1 month old and does not have the fan issue. I can barely hear the fan in my home office..

[c4757p]

I reckon security updates are more important for a Windows machine than your car.

I don't understand this obsession with security updates. I'm running a virtual machine that's running a bit of specialized software on top of another, maintained OS, not a server that's open for the world to see. Out of all the computers in my home that I "maintain", the only one I've ever had a problem with is my dad's - I have not been able to train him not to go farting around on shady web sites. If there's a firewall up, you're not advertising your computer to the public and you're not mucking about in the questionable corners of the Internet, the computer's a damn appliance, not a kingdom that needs to be guarded. On the rare occasion that something bad happens I'll just wipe it and start over. Much less hassle.

[MacAttak]

It's not just security updates - no more bugfixes or driver updates either. And once an update to that specialized software breaks backward compatibility you won't have much luck convincing the vendor to support your retired OS platform.

Also, there are many ways to compromise your system other than visiting shady web sites. You wouldn't call this one shady, yet it is exactly the kind of place that would be targeted by a zero-day exploit such as the Flash or JPG exploits that have cropped up in recent years. And just because you aren't running a server doesn't make you any less of a target. Bots don't care.

Personal computers are certainly not appliances. You can't have your identity stolen by a bot that hijacks your microwave. Yet.

[casper.bang]

Basically, unless you are absolutely strapped for every last cent, I would not recommend anyone buy the DS1052E any more.

That's a little sad to read.  As an electronics hobbyist (software engineer by day) I just can't justify spending around US$1000 for the DS2000 series - that is a whole lot of money on a hobby budget. At that price range, frankly I'd rather go out and get a super nice new RC helicopter for another one of my expensive geek hobbies.

There *must* be a decent scope in between the DS1052E (US$300) and DS2000 (US$1000) which offers advantages to hobbyists while not breaking the bank. From reading these threads, it's pretty clear that I am not the only one with a budget that can only be stretched to around $500-$600, regardless of how much more value you get by adding 30-50% more (that's a game you can't win unless you won the lottery).

I reckon that the DS1052E (which I have evaluated an older sibling of over the last week), would actually serve me fine for my journey beyond the simple DMM. That is, if it weren't for the fact that it sounds like a jet engine and has a screen no bigger than my smartphones yet a resolution 4x smaller.

[c4757p]

Personal computers are certainly not appliances. You can't have your identity stolen by a bot that hijacks your microwave. Yet.

They should be. I just don't have time to care. I try my best not to be an idiot with my data on my computer (the only way you're going to steal my identity from my computer is with a keylogger and getting lucky, I don't store anything sensitive and I'm good about passwords), and that's the most I'm going to waste my time doing. Sure, I might not be perfectly safe against an attack, but hell, if somebody attacked me with a knife in public I wouldn't be safe either.

[staze]

And the circles go on. =P

Yeah, running XP in a VM sounds fine. I already run Win7 on my MBA (Macbook Air) and it runs great. Adding XP won't be a problem. Sad though. =/ But then, I guess back in the day, all the software control was probably in Win3.1 or DOS for that matter.

Yes, having the extra money would let me buy a nice bench PSU (or rather, A bench PSU (been looking at the Circuit Specialists CSI3005x5. Mind you, it's only $130, so that's not exactly a big deal. I'm trying to budget no more than like $150/month on this kind of thing, so I'll be saving several months if I go for the Rigol 2000 series. That said, maybe by the time I have the money, they'll drop by price and it'll be win win. Also figure by the time I have the money, I might change my mind and not want a scope, or decide something else would better suit me.

Arg.

Anyone know if Rigol NA offers EDU discounts? =)

Keep the input coming. Seems like it's all pointing at Rigol at this point, but just cycling around between "Buy a 1052, it's all you'll probably need" to "Save your money and get the 2072". And the 2072 does look sexy as hell, but since I'm not an EE, I'm just not sure if I'll use all it can offer. But then, I do like nice things (I bought a Fluke 189 for that reason), so...

Now, I'm off to watch Psych, and The Daily Show.

[Deckert]

Keep the input coming. Seems like it's all pointing at Rigol at this point, but just cycling around between "Buy a 1052, it's all you'll probably need" to "Save your money and get the 2072". And the 2072 does look sexy as hell, but since I'm not an EE, I'm just not sure if I'll use all it can offer. But then, I do like nice things (I bought a Fluke 189 for that reason), so...

The only change I would recommend would be to get the 1102 (100MHz version). Many of the glitches I measure with the Atten come out at 60-70MHz (see the common mode noise glitches in the "show your bench PSU" thread) and some of the signal ringing a little higher.

I also agree with MacAttak's earlier advice in reply #5, it's really good advice.

--deckert

[EEVblog]

If you've got the budget, by all means go for the 2000-series, but if not, using the 1000-series for tinkering/hacking really does not present any challenges.

I was not implying anything to the contrary.
There is still (after almost 5 years on the market) nothing inherently wrong with the DS1052E, but fact is  it is much less bang-per-buck compared to the new DS2000.
The DS2000 with 10 times the features and performance for double the price, is IMO, a very compelling deal compared to the DS1052E, but only if you can afford it. If you can't afford it, the point is moot.

[EEVblog]

Basically, unless you are absolutely strapped for every last cent, I would not recommend anyone buy the DS1052E any more.

That's a little sad to read.  As an electronics hobbyist (software engineer by day) I just can't justify spending around US$1000 for the DS2000 series - that is a whole lot of money on a hobby budget. At that price range, frankly I'd rather go out and get a super nice new RC helicopter for another one of my expensive geek hobbies.

Why is that sad to read?
It's a basic fact that the DS1052E is now almost 5 years old, and is (IMO) poor bang-per-buck compared to the new DS2000.
But the rules of affordability always remain the same, if you want a basic scope, and only have $400 to spend, buy the 1052E and be happy.

There *must* be a decent scope in between the DS1052E (US$300) and DS2000 (US$1000) which offers advantages to hobbyists while not breaking the bank. From reading these threads, it's pretty clear that I am not the only one with a budget that can only be stretched to around $500-$600, regardless of how much more value you get by adding 30-50% more (that's a game you can't win unless you won the lottery).

The DS2072 is US$839. Even in Oz it's only AU$839 + GST from Emona.

I reckon that the DS1052E (which I have evaluated an older sibling of over the last week), would actually serve me fine for my journey beyond the simple DMM.

Of course it will, no one is saying otherwise.

[casper.bang]

The DS2072 is US$839. Even in Oz it's only AU$839 + GST from Emona.

It's €889 / US$1139 / AU$1092 when buying from Rigol in Denmark (25% sales tax). The cheapest price I can find it at in Europe, is at €845  /  US$1083 / AU$1038 (19% VAT).

[ivan747]

I fond the DS1052E/1102E the best compromise between reliability and price. The model has been around for 5 years and during that time the software has been refined. Technical support and warranty claims have been reported by users online (just get Rigol products from authorized sellers).

In my opinion, when you pay hundreds of dollars for something, you better know you are getting something you can rely on.

The other oscilloscopes in the price range of this series are recent and sometimes unpolished. Little is known or published about them so you are not 100% sure what you are getting.

I have more confidence in a tried and proven product than something little people know at this sort of price range.

And don't forget that the more people are using it, the easier it will be to get people to answer your questions. Also, it's resale value is likely to be higher as there will be more demand for it, like happens with Tektronix CROs right now.

Now the issue with the DS2072 is that if is twice the price and is not yet proven, although it's quality suggests it can overlast a DS1052E. And don't forget software will contain more bugs than usual for now.

[BillyD]

Wow this has really made me lust for a DS2000 series, and I wish it was double the price, but looking at Batronix where I bought my 1052 the price is €710 vs €239 plus VAT + shipping which is almost bang on 3 times the price. And that's excluding the sexy options such as serial decoder, advanced trigger, etc  .
It does look like a great piece of kit but for many hobbyists who value their savings and marriages I think the 1052 will continue to be the Model T of the oscilloscope world for a while yet!

[staze]

All very good points.

So, the question becomes:

Spend ~$330 now, and get a DSO1052 (or a little more and get the 1102), and have a scope that will probably serve for more than what I need right now (heck, I don't even know what I need, which is part of the problem), and in 3-5 years, upgrade to something better if needed, maybe recouping some part of my ~$330 by selling the 1000 series. Or save a bit longer, buy something higher end (the 2000 series) and have something that will last me longer, but may be way overkill, in which case I got something nicer, but spending way more.

It's the "buy a radioshack dmm vs buy a fluke". Sure, the 'Shack DMM probably will do everything you want, but if you need a Fluke in the future, you're stuck with a Shack DMM that you either have to sell, or just look at thinking "why did I buy that?"

But, I'm a tinkerer, so the 1000 series will probably work fine for me for everything I want to do. *sigh*

At this point, I'm saving for anything, so hopefully by the end of the month when I have enough for the 1000, I'll have made up my mind to either buy, or wait.