Flir E4 in Australia.

[csshih]

if anyone needs help with forwarding I can do that.

My incentive: http://www.flir.com/thermography/americas/us/view/?id=62227

references available, inquire within!

[Fraser]

THANKS... I shall apply myself as I just bought an E4 

[jasonjmann]

Hi guys,
    The licence restrictions for Ex range of cameras relates to the frame rate of the camera.
If it was over 9Hz refresh rate you'd need a special license from the local authorities to be able to export it.
The Ex range is under 9Hz so needs no license for export.

However, the post mentioning accountability is correct, so shipping to a forwarder or a bonded warehouse is not a good idea.

The New Zealand local agent has the same margin as the USA one, so they are definitely not ripping you off.

One problem (apart from all the messing around shipping to a middle man) is that you will not be able to have the camera serviced locally if you purchase from USA.
You'll have to ship it all the way back to USA to get it repaired (under warranty or outside of it), re-callibrated or maintained or to extend the warranty.
Although the cameras are pretty tough and reliable, things can go wrong and accidents can happen. You could spend a lot on freight and wasted time shipping cameras to USA for service. That is time without the camera to use for your business.

Another issue relates to liability. Do many of you buy your TV or PC from USA/China to save money? Some few might, but the reason most of us don't is that:
a) it is a hassle and
b) if something goes wrong with the purchase/product you're unlikely to have consumer protection laws helping you out.
c) you'll get much more after sales support from your local agent

It may look like you'll save some money, but in the long run it's not worth it.

[kaz911]

Hi guys,
    The licence restrictions for Ex range of cameras relates to the frame rate of the camera.
If it was over 9Hz refresh rate you'd need a special license from the local authorities to be able to export it.
The Ex range is under 9Hz so needs no license for export.

However, the post mentioning accountability is correct, so shipping to a forwarder or a bonded warehouse is not a good idea.

The New Zealand local agent has the same margin as the USA one, so they are definitely not ripping you off.

One problem (apart from all the messing around shipping to a middle man) is that you will not be able to have the camera serviced locally if you purchase from USA.
You'll have to ship it all the way back to USA to get it repaired (under warranty or outside of it), re-callibrated or maintained or to extend the warranty.
Although the cameras are pretty tough and reliable, things can go wrong and accidents can happen. You could spend a lot on freight and wasted time shipping cameras to USA for service. That is time without the camera to use for your business.

Another issue relates to liability. Do many of you buy your TV or PC from USA/China to save money? Some few might, but the reason most of us don't is that:
a) it is a hassle and
b) if something goes wrong with the purchase/product you're unlikely to have consumer protection laws helping you out.
c) you'll get much more after sales support from your local agent

It may look like you'll save some money, but in the long run it's not worth it.

Hi Jason - it very much sounds like you are working for Flir or a reseller. So maybe you can answer why Flir is 30-50% more expensive outside the US? And apart from that international resellers are slow - many does not carry stock and have extensive lead times. Plus add that none of the special offers are available outside the USA.

So here is my calculation:

Absolute best local price: $1300. Delivery time 2-5 weeks. Warranty 12 months. It took 1-2 weeks to even get the quote as the reseller did not answer emails before I contacted Flir directly (again)

Buying from the US - $900 including shipping and discount. Shipping across the world $70 from my FF with DHL 3 day. Local tax 5%.  Total Price $1015 all inclusive. Plus I get $130 "value" worth of extras on the Flir promotion. Lets call that really worth $100 - so my net price is $915 total.... So a $385 benefit.

Add to that 2+10+5 year warranty.... vs 12 months total locally - and we have a winner - EVEN if I have to send someone to the US with the camera.

I would say anything priced locally 20-30% > US pricing - I import myself.

[amyk]

That is time without the camera to use for your business.

If you read the other thread you'll soon figure out that we're mostly not professional thermographers or anyone else who uses these cameras for a living...

And I've bought tons of electronics from China with no problem; occasionally you do get a few duds but the overall savings make up for that. In fact I'm almost willing to bet that the ones who have not bought anything overseas are probably in a minority here.

[Psi]

The New Zealand local agent has the same margin as the USA one, so they are definitely not ripping you off.

One problem (apart from all the messing around shipping to a middle man) is that you will not be able to have the camera serviced locally if you purchase from USA.
You'll have to ship it all the way back to USA to get it repaired (under warranty or outside of it), re-callibrated or maintained or to extend the warranty.

We're not talking about a small difference in price,
E4 in USA = ~US$895
E4 in NZ = ~US$1568

If it fails you can almost buy a second unit for the same price as getting one locally.

And since we're planing on hacking it warranty isn't much of a problem, it will void the warranty anyway.

maybe you can answer why Flir is 30-50% more expensive outside the US?

More like 30-100%

The reason is 'because they can'.

It's a similar situation with software.
I dunno if this is still true but you used to be able to buy a return plane ticket to the USA, fly over and buy the Adobe software suite then fly back to NZ, all for cheaper than buying it locally in AUS/NZ

[digsys]

I just bought mine from Sydney, Trio Test + Measurement. It cost $1,450, but it should arrive tomorrow and absolutely no hassles.
Maybe I could have saved ~$300, but I know I have instant backup if needed (ie loaner etc).
On average, I buy 4/5 from overseas, MOSTLY stuff that doesn't exist here.

[Strammer]

I just bought mine from Sydney, Trio Test + Measurement. It cost $1,450, but it should arrive tomorrow and absolutely no hassles.
Maybe I could have saved ~$300, but I know I have instant backup if needed (ie loaner etc).
On average, I buy 4/5 from overseas, MOSTLY stuff that doesn't exist here.

Good point....

To my knowledge....FLIR doesn't have "international re-sellers" unless they're in your domestic territory...anyone else probably isn't doing it with the blessing of the manufacturer! (I may be wrong)

And like Digsys says....instant backup....I'd be pretty concerned about support if my business relied on the camera.  Fine if you're a hobbyist who's going to open it up and fiddle with it, the warranty isn't going to be an issue...but otherwise....it's still a lot of cash to blow off if it goes wrong (even at the reduced cost).

Each to their own I guess!

[Fraser]

On the warranty issue... providing the camera does not fail to boot, the added 'Mike Hack' file is just that, an extra file. It may be removed and the camera returns to E4 spec. Its effectively a file execution interception hack rather than a file change hack 

The more advanced changes to the E4 that are currently being worked on do involve more invasive changes. On a camera that fails to boot, do you believe FLIR will do component level or even file level testing on the board? With such a low intrinsic value I believe the E4 will be board level diagnostics and replacement, just like my very expensive PM series cameras. If the PM series fails to boot, the tech fits a new power supply board. If that fails to fix it, he fits a new LiCO CPU board and blows the firmware and calibration data into it from a fresh install, not from the old board. Its not the sort of repairs that I like to do but it is fast so saves on labour hours.

For the hobbyist the risk is manageable. Hacking mission critical tools for professional use is not recommended though.

[csshih]

THANKS... I shall apply myself as I just bought an E4 

Yup! Only available in the states

[Fraser]

I checked the terms and conditions and it states that the appliance must be bought from a FLIR Inc. Distributor. No mention of USA only that I could see and my supplier is listed under the USA site as an authorised FLIR inc. Distributor. I may have this wrong though...grateful to hear how you found out it is USA only. Not the end of the world but I wanted the E4 accessory kit.

I may still approach FLIR Inc with a covering case for acceptance of the application. Don't ask, don't get 

[aargee]

I checked the terms and conditions and it states that the appliance must be bought from a FLIR Inc. Distributor. No mention of USA only that I could see and my supplier is listed under the USA site as an authorised FLIR inc. Distributor. I may have this wrong though...grateful to hear how you found out it is USA only. Not the end of the world but I wanted the E4 accessory kit.

I may still approach FLIR Inc with a covering case for acceptance of the application. Don't ask, don't get 

From the T&Cs - "Offer valid for sales in the United States (including Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands) only."

You can translate that several ways but I assume Flir would say that if you buy it in the US and ship it overseas you're out?

[nowlan]

The sale was made in US.
He just needs to provide the invoice, and perhaps his shipping agent's virtual po box.

[Fraser]

aargee,

Many thanks for the info on the T&C's. I must be going blind in my old age 

My next step....to contact FLIR UK and ask why they cannot offer the same deal to me  Virtually no chance of success but I like to try 

[csshih]

hmm! perhaps! I'll notify a canuk friend who purchased one from the states. good luck to everyone! 

[NeilDe]

If you get someone (say, related student) in US to buy it locally, and get him to ship it out, are you violating a rule of the government regulation on this item? and you are putting the other guy in trouble with us authorities?

[csshih]

If you get someone (say, related student) in US to buy it locally, and get him to ship it out, are you violating a rule of the government regulation on this item? and you are putting the other guy in trouble with us authorities?

not at all. at 9hz these do not fall under ITAR regulations.

[aargee]

My Flir is in Honolulu on it's way here to Aus!

[ixfd64]

Is FLIR the only company that can reliably repair a FLIR camera, or could a third-party company also do it with enough expertise?

[Fraser]

It depends which camera you have. I have purchased five PM series cameras and managed to repair the faults on four using normal techniques and off the shelf components. Those cameras were sold in the late 1990's onwards so the technology is less integrated.

If you look inside an E4 there is not a great deal that you can replace except maybe power supply components and any commercial chips that do not hold a fixed program. FLIR will not supply spare parts to anyone except a repair agent. I know, I asked FLIR HQ and all the service agents I could get a response from.

Thermal cameras are not that common so few repair techs have experience of repairing them. It will be a learning curve for any that try.

The good news is that the cameras come with a decent warranty and FLIR is generally considered to be a very reliable brand, at least where their industrial cameras are concerned. You very rarely see a modern FLIR being sold for spares or repair

Just my view as a user and collector of thermal cameras. 

[aargee]

For fellow Aussies...

My E4 arrived at long last (so it seems). How it can take four days to get from Sydney to SE Qld, I don't know.

No customs, no GST. Box was not opened by customs. E4 works well, although the resolution at present is not as good as some other E4s I've seen on the forum ;-)

Order placed by PriceUSA on the 1st November. All up around A$1180 to land it at my doorstep.

Very happy with the PriceUSA service, kept me up to date on every event via email, I can recommend them if you choose to purchase this way. 

- Rob.

[mobbarley]

Thanks Rob - was going to ask who you used to acquire it!