So Rigol recently added the MHO900 series at this price point, which has an amount of bandwidth in combination with a 12-bit ADC previously reserved for scopes costing some integer multiple.
But I think most hobyists and the like probably will not make much use of that much bandwidth; I think 100 MHz or 200 MHz is still sufficient. So this raises the question whether the MHO954 etc. are actually the "best" choice around the 1k price point.
- Rigol MSO5000
- Decoders use on-screen samples? Instant DQ imho
- 9" screen
- Rigol MHO900
- Loads of bandwidth, memory and 12-bit
- But apparently quite noisy 12-bit
- Small 7" screen
- AWG currently included (50 MHz, 2Ch)
- Siglent SDS2104X Plus
- 100 Mhz, 10-bit
- 10" sceen
- 1ch AWG is a 250 bucks option
- Siglent SDS1104X HD
- 100 Mhz, 12-bit
- 10" sceen
- 1ch AWG is a 300 bucks hardware option
- Actually costs around 1300 bucks
But I think most hobyists and the like probably will not make much use of that much bandwidth; I think 100 MHz or 200 MHz is still sufficient. So this raises the question whether the MHO954 etc. are actually the "best" choice around the 1k price point.
The base assumption doesn't work.
If you only want a "200Mhz oscilloscope" then you don't need to spend $1000, you can spend half that.
If you want SIGGEN and Bode plots on your "200Mhz oscilloscope" you spend $1000 on an MHO900 and the extra bandwidth is a freebie.
Rigol MHO900
apparently quite noisy 12-bit
Higher noise goes with higher bandwidth. Nothing anybody can do about that.
It has a 250MHz internal limiter, turn it on as needed.
There's also modes that show the average of adjacent samples to reduce it. Use them as needed.
MSO5000 despite being 8 bit scope has 8GS/s and to see intermittent but strong things it wipes the floor with others but it is noisy.
Pros are that you nowadays get all or almost all software options included with it and it can be "upgraded".
MHO900
if you will be lucky with 98 model then you get all in so price is a killa here
noisy is a thing with all high bandwidth scopes
AWG on board or can be unlocked depending on deal
without options normal models needs additinal money spent in terms of decoders etc if you use them
SDS2104X Plus is 8 bit in native mode and only look at high res modes as extra plus activating them has speed impact on scope
but it is a very good all rounded older gen scope and there are nice deals rn for it
Siglent SDS1104X HD is new gen but if you need only 200 MHz I think 800x hd with "upgrade" could fit your needs for lower cost (given you do not need 50 Ohms input)
Generally if you wanna a nice scope and have more money I would rather consider 2000x hd series if you want good software and do not need high bandwidth. only caveat with Siglent is external AWG cost.
I think if one would compare some MHO900 model like 500 or 800MHz one with purchasing most or lot of extra options and 100MHz AWG then cost
will be comparable or close to 2000x HD with special priced decoders bundle but this is closer to 2k range. 2000x hd is reasonably quiet scope in terms of fan noise (which usually is not very quiet to annoying so if you are sensitive to that this is a point to consider).
- Rigol MSO5000
- Decoders use on-screen samples? Instant DQ imho
I've seen that assertion made in at least a couple of recent posts. Perhaps someone would be so kind as to explain what is meant by it, since as the owner of an MSO5000, I don't understand what the perceived limitation is (other than MSOs, period, aren't a replacement for a LA when it comes to lengthy captures and analysis of message exchanges)?
I can make a 'long' capture and all samples within the acquisition window will be fully decoded within the event table, regardless of how I might the zoom for detail within the 'secondary timebase' display.
Are they perhaps referring just to the way in which the MSO5k operates in general, for any capture? i.e. there *are* no samples outside of the time period encompassed by the number of horizontal divisions in the (non zoomed) display window?
- Rigol MSO5000
- Decoders use on-screen samples? Instant DQ imho
I've seen that assertion made in at least a couple of recent posts. Perhaps someone would be so kind as to explain what is meant by it, since as the owner of an MSO5000, I don't understand what the perceived limitation is (other than MSOs, period, aren't a replacement for a LA when it comes to lengthy captures and analysis of message exchanges)?
That's the point. If you want to
see a message "Temp 25C RH50" and only 16 bits fit on a screen, then you are swimming against the tide. Even worse if you want to
ignore all messages
until "RH5" is seen.
Basically using an analogue tool to look at digital signals is "suboptimum", like using a bicycle to cross the Alps. Much better to use a digital tool for digital signals.
But more importantly, the principle also applies to analogue waveforms, especially FFTs of captured signals. Having 1Msamples of which you can only analyse 800 samples is... disappointing and limiting.
N.B. I have no knowledge of which scopes do/don't have such misfeatures.[/list]
as an hobbyist loll i would go to Siglent models who are know to be freely BW upgrades, some Rigols too
my 2 cents, i tend to Siglent in many threads because : mathlabs, labview code examples an better docs, and for sure free upgrades, if you are in the v1 keygens
Tried Rigols ... i hated their cumbersome softwares ... and lack of code examples ... but it's getting beyond hobbyist
no news of the
@OP, trolling or ??
check EEVBLOG 1717 ...
Well, if the point is that an MSO isn't a LA, doesn't have all the of functionality of the latter, and isn't a full substitute for it then sure. Simple fact.
However, w.r.t. to the MSO5k, it is possible to fully fill the max. available sample memory (naturally, 'full' is within the constraints set by the selected timebase and sample rate) and have it all decoded. The limitation I see is that the pop-up "Event Table" display will indeed 'track' only those events falling within the current time window of the display. You can 'zoom out' a capture, scroll though it, and have different events included, but there seems to be an ultimate limitation of the total amount of events it can display simultaneously (corresponding to about 700 characters of RS232 at 9600 baud, insofar as I just measured it).
- Rigol MSO5000
- Decoders use on-screen samples? Instant DQ imho
I've seen that assertion made in at least a couple of recent posts. Perhaps someone would be so kind as to explain what is meant by it, since as the owner of an MSO5000, I don't understand what the perceived limitation is (other than MSOs, period, aren't a replacement for a LA when it comes to lengthy captures and analysis of message exchanges)?
That's the point. If you want to see a message "Temp 25C RH50" and only 16 bits fit on a screen, then you are swimming against the tide. Even worse if you want to ignore all messages until "RH5" is seen.
Basically using an analogue tool to look at digital signals is "suboptimum", like using a bicycle to cross the Alps. Much better to use a digital tool for digital signals.
But more importantly, the principle also applies to analogue waveforms, especially FFTs of captured signals. Having 1Msamples of which you can only analyse 800 samples is... disappointing and limiting.
N.B. I have no knowledge of which scopes do/don't have such misfeatures.[/list]
If you have no knowledge of topic discussed, why comment in the first place?
- Rigol MSO5000
- Decoders use on-screen samples? Instant DQ imho
I've seen that assertion made in at least a couple of recent posts. Perhaps someone would be so kind as to explain what is meant by it, since as the owner of an MSO5000, I don't understand what the perceived limitation is (other than MSOs, period, aren't a replacement for a LA when it comes to lengthy captures and analysis of message exchanges)?
That's the point. If you want to see a message "Temp 25C RH50" and only 16 bits fit on a screen, then you are swimming against the tide. Even worse if you want to ignore all messages until "RH5" is seen.
Basically using an analogue tool to look at digital signals is "suboptimum", like using a bicycle to cross the Alps. Much better to use a digital tool for digital signals.
But more importantly, the principle also applies to analogue waveforms, especially FFTs of captured signals. Having 1Msamples of which you can only analyse 800 samples is... disappointing and limiting.
N.B. I have no knowledge of which scopes do/don't have such misfeatures.[/list]
If you have no knowledge of topic discussed, why comment in the first place?
I commented on a subsequent
generic point in the thread, and made it clear that it should not be regarded as applying to any
specific scope mentioned.
Too many people don't limit the scope of their statements, for whatever reason
- Rigol MSO5000
- Decoders use on-screen samples? Instant DQ imho
I've seen that assertion made in at least a couple of recent posts. Perhaps someone would be so kind as to explain what is meant by it, since as the owner of an MSO5000, I don't understand what the perceived limitation is (other than MSOs, period, aren't a replacement for a LA when it comes to lengthy captures and analysis of message exchanges)?
That's the point. If you want to see a message "Temp 25C RH50" and only 16 bits fit on a screen, then you are swimming against the tide. Even worse if you want to ignore all messages until "RH5" is seen.
Basically using an analogue tool to look at digital signals is "suboptimum", like using a bicycle to cross the Alps. Much better to use a digital tool for digital signals.
But more importantly, the principle also applies to analogue waveforms, especially FFTs of captured signals. Having 1Msamples of which you can only analyse 800 samples is... disappointing and limiting.
N.B. I have no knowledge of which scopes do/don't have such misfeatures.[/list]
If you have no knowledge of topic discussed, why comment in the first place?
I commented on a subsequent generic point in the thread, and made it clear that it should not be regarded as applying to any specific scope mentioned.
Too many people don't limit the scope of their statements, for whatever reason
Well your comment was pretty specific and generic at the same time. So scope was confusingly wague..
Also what you said was unusual statement.
On all digital scopes I own, if I have 10Mpts captured, they process and analyse whole 10Mpts for all analysis except FFT where they will do up to FFT capability ( from 64kpts to 32 Mpoints depending on the scope).
That includes Keysight (that supports up to 4Mpts), Siglent and Picoscope.
- Rigol MSO5000
- Decoders use on-screen samples? Instant DQ imho
I've seen that assertion made in at least a couple of recent posts. Perhaps someone would be so kind as to explain what is meant by it, since as the owner of an MSO5000, I don't understand what the perceived limitation is (other than MSOs, period, aren't a replacement for a LA when it comes to lengthy captures and analysis of message exchanges)?
That's the point. If you want to see a message "Temp 25C RH50" and only 16 bits fit on a screen, then you are swimming against the tide. Even worse if you want to ignore all messages until "RH5" is seen.
Basically using an analogue tool to look at digital signals is "suboptimum", like using a bicycle to cross the Alps. Much better to use a digital tool for digital signals.
But more importantly, the principle also applies to analogue waveforms, especially FFTs of captured signals. Having 1Msamples of which you can only analyse 800 samples is... disappointing and limiting.
N.B. I have no knowledge of which scopes do/don't have such misfeatures.[/list]
If you have no knowledge of topic discussed, why comment in the first place?
I commented on a subsequent generic point in the thread, and made it clear that it should not be regarded as applying to any specific scope mentioned.
Too many people don't limit the scope of their statements, for whatever reason
Well your comment was pretty specific and generic at the same time. So scope was confusingly wague..
Also what you said was unusual statement.
On all digital scopes I own, if I have 10Mpts captured, they process and analyse whole 10Mpts for all analysis except FFT where they will do up to FFT capability ( from 64kpts to 32 Mpoints depending on the scope).
That includes Keysight (that supports up to 4Mpts), Siglent and Picoscope.
And that is why my statement was correct, and hopefully a little useful to someone evaluating lower end scopes - but not globally applicable.
IMO, higher bandwidth is nice if you're going to use multiple channels. I also prefer a separate AWG, so am pretty happy with the Siglent SDS800x series and SDG2000x series, picking by how much you want to spend and whether you choose to do a firmware upgrade. That said, I could also make a good case for a 10" screen scope!
That said, I could also make a good case for a 10" screen scope!
I have one. I could make a case for a 32" screen!
