Author Topic: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules  (Read 2141 times)

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Offline m kTopic starter

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Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« on: November 26, 2021, 09:07:07 am »
Included list has partnumbers combined from few manuals and some pictures.
It even includes the famously missing option -04.

If there is a mfg number it's from manual.
If mfg number is present but Fluke stock number is missing they are the same.
If there is no option ID then it's from picture.
Rest are eighter way.

Some variable module placements.

8506
Thermal true
RMS Multimeter
Instruction Manual
P/N 638858
MARCH 1983
page 8-8
Slot A
DC Signal Conditioner

8505A
DIGITAL MULTIMETER
Instruction Manual
P/N 638841
March 1983 Rev.2 2/91
page 8-8
Slot C
DC Signal Conditioner

here and xDevs have pictures where
D DC Signal Conditioner
C AC/DC Converter (RMS)
B Ohms Converter
A Current Shunts

Disclaimer
Included list is a totally new intervention.
And so can be taken as a clean second guess.

E,
Cal Memory
Addressing
ID  A_Cal
7 - 7
6 - 6
5 - 1
4 - 2
3 - 3
2 - 4
1 - 5
0 - 0

Read is actually not Write so Address and Enable will read and both will create their own ACK.

E2,
Code: [Select]
       Input
 -----------------
 |   |     |     |
 | Ohms Currents |
 |    \   / \    |
 |     RT1  RT3  |
 \     / \    \ /
  DC---   ----AC
   \          /
    ----------
         |
        RT6
         |
   Active Filter
         |
        RT5
         |
    Fast RR A/D

For 8506A the Thermal TRMS is not mandatory per se, but among ACs it is.
So you can leave it off and the machine is fine with simultaneous Ohms and Currents.
In case you hack 8505A to be 8506A remember button placings.

U18

A0 - A11
A1 - A12
A2 - A13
A3 - A14
A4 - memory cycle or not

O1 - U24
O2 - U23
O3 - U22
O4 - U20

Code: [Select]
     0000   0001   0010   0011   0100   0101   0110   0111   1000   1001   1010   1011   1100   1101   1110   1111
0000 1110 E 1110 E 1110 E 1110 E 1101 D 1101 D 1101 D 1101 D 1011 B 0111 7 1111 F 1111 F 1111 F 1111 F 1111 F 1111 F
.......
1000 1110 E 1110 E 1110 E 1110 E 1110 E 1110 E 1110 E 1110 E 1101 D 1101 D 1101 D 1101 D 1011 B 0111 7 1111 F 1111 F
.......

Rest are F, so the whole DM74s287/N82s129 is programmed and can't be reused.
(TBP14s10N on schematics)

Since A13 is directly wired to U24 and 2nd set has double area for U24 one can guess that they have had some bigger ROM chip thoughts.

U18 ROM can be replaced with 74159 and 4 pull up resistors.
original A4 to _G1 and _G2
with pull up
0-3 outputs to U24
4-7 outputs to U23
output 8 to U22
output 9 to U20

27256 ROM is a drop in replacement for 2764.
Then U23 can be left out, but changing jumper W3 wont work since RAM location changes.
Combining and doubling U24 and U23 is fine but U18 content must be changed.
Rewiring A13 and lifting chip leg wont do either since _CS is not serviced.
Replacing U18 with 74159 will do, then its outputs 0-7 are combined to socket's _CS.

If replacement 74159 is used then remaining empty ROM socket can be used for extra software.
Then A-F outputs are combined to empty socket _CS and extra ROM space is available.

In case of extra software keep in mind that it's of course also possible that original software is testing that originally unused address space.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2023, 06:33:30 pm by m k »
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Offline m kTopic starter

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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2021, 07:06:52 pm »
One Front/Rear more for 8506A and corrected A11 stock number typo.

Can't find a reason why I thought elsewhere that DC Signal Conditioner was universaly interchangeable.
Early and late part numbers are different.

E,
ods to xls
« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 07:20:02 pm by m k »
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Offline Martian Tech

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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2021, 04:27:35 am »
For reference, here's the inside of an 8500A.
 

Offline m kTopic starter

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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2021, 12:44:04 pm »
IEEE-488 is not last, how the external connection happens?
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Offline m kTopic starter

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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2021, 12:47:58 pm »
One 8500A manual added.

Controller is one module but two parts.
Maybe CPU and ROMs were so expensive.

My guess for dual PCB controller is 8502A/AT and its extra needs.
Though the manual has only single module controller listed.

8502A/AT
(manual p/n 577049)
includes calibration memory(-04) as a standard feature.
Same with all A22 to A30 modules.
Operates with 400Hz mains.

Error A is illegal Thermal TRMS controller switches selected
Error E is more than one Thermal TRMS controllers installed

Boot
HI-3.0.0
C2454A 8

Cal Memory module has a battery and 2 RAM chips.
(429860 P5101L and 408757 P5101L-3)

8502A
(manual p/n 471466 rev 1 7/81)
Figure 8-7
A6 Controller PCB Assembly - Single PCB version

CPU and ROMs are blank, no component numbers, chip rectangles are present.
2 last of 6 RAM chips are completely missing, empty space in picture.

Figure 8-8
A6A1 Controller PCB Assembly - Double PCB version

1 ROM socket, no chips.
All ROMs are labeled as not used.
4th is also labeled as double PCB version interconnection.
2 last of 6 RAM chips are labeled as not used.

A6A2 Controller PCB Assembly - Double PCB version

5 of 6 ROM chips are without sockets.
6th is missing but socket is present, location like 3rd in A6A1.
Schematics has no address lines for that 6th ROM.

BTW, I have a strong feeling that I've seen a picture of Cal Memory module recently.
Can be a fake memory but if that lateral top edge battery is black and those two panduits are still strapped then it can be somebody's published but unknown feature.
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Offline Kleinstein

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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2021, 05:02:49 pm »
For the controller module there could be different versions: with more modern parts a single ROM or RAM chip could replace 2 or 4 chips. So the newer version may get the same function with less parts.
Using 2 PCBs for the controller would be just the space needed with multiple chips for the RAM and ROM.
 
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Offline m kTopic starter

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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2021, 08:34:10 pm »
8500A ROMs have Fluke numbers only, 4 pieces, CPU is named TMS8080.

8502A has 6x 2716 for double board and 3 ROMs and 1 PROM for single board.

Cal Memory then has 2 static RAMs with different part numbers.
Sure data inside is finally different but how it is maintained.
Maybe you were able to order them but delivery was onsite factory only.
Or maybe they knew or visioned that EEPROMs were coming.

E,
completely forgot those famous SRAM + battery chips.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 08:46:30 pm by m k »
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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2021, 05:31:41 pm »
Cal Memory Module

« Last Edit: December 30, 2021, 06:33:26 pm by m k »
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Offline Martian Tech

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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2021, 03:29:03 am »
IEEE-488 is not last, how the external connection happens?
This is from the 8502A manual, but presumably the same for the 8500A
 

Offline m kTopic starter

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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2021, 11:28:31 am »
Yes, it's not illegally placed but its usage is a bit difficult from there.
If it is not just stored there.

Another thing from the list, controller's preferred location seems to be bus termination something.
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Offline m kTopic starter

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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2021, 07:58:33 pm »
Bus Interconnect in slot K.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2021, 11:45:24 am by m k »
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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2022, 05:21:17 pm »
Some module addresses added to modules file.

IC is inverted in software and msb is included.
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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2022, 05:52:01 pm »
Sorry about the inconvenience.

OP's original ROM set 503/604 is invalid, has this been up already, can't really remember.
(still there for a moment and for the reference)

I have 3 sets on the table right now, 502/603 and 503/604 are original chips and 506/607 is self made, all are working copies.

My MiniPRO something can't read said 503/604 U24 chip, U23 is unknown.
I also just successfully copied 502/603 set with that same MiniPRO, destination being M28C64A, using AM28C64A MiniPRO type, and successfully used said 503/604 originals, and newly copied 502/603 EEPROM set, on the same controller.
So some weak bits then, but unfortunately only for the MiniPRO.

Disassembled software below is from 506/607 U24.
All versions seem to be starting equally, first jump address location differs.
That jump address also always includes, sooner or later, that delay of 0x452C cycles.
The faulty 503/604 U24 copy has at least one error, 18 in place of 1B DCX DE.

Somewhere is also a sort of a CRC checksum, but can't remember where.
It's in the middle of the code and it is included to the count.

Code: [Select]
0x0000  26 C0     MVI   H, 0xC0
0x0002  36 FF     MVI   (HL), 0xFF
0x0004  C3 DB 02  JMP   0x02DB

0x02DB  3E FF     MVI   A, 0xFF
0x02DD  26 E0     MVI   H, 0xE0
0x02DF  77        MOV   (HL), A
0x02E0  24        INR   H
0x02E1  C2 DF 02  JNZ   0x02DF
0x02E4  11 2C 45  LXI   DE, 0x452C
0x02E7  7A        MOV   A, D
0x02E8  B3        ORA   E
0x02E9  1B        DCX   DE
0x02EA  C2 E7 02  JNZ   0x02E7
0x02ED  C3 38 00  JMP   0x0038

E,
Changed a nuance.

E2,
Checksum

Code: [Select]
0x009C  11 00 40  LXI   DE, 0x4000
0x009F  26 42     MVI   H, 0x42
0x00A1  AF        XRA   A
0x00A2  12        STAX  (DE)
0x00A3  1C        INR   E
0x00A4  C2 A2 00  JNZ   0x00A2
0x00A7  14        INR   D
0x00A8  7A        MOV   A, D
0x00A9  BC        CMP   H
0x00AA  C2 A1 00  JNZ   0x00A1
0x00AD  0E 95     MVI   C, 0x95   ; Checksum zeroing value?
0x00AF  79        MOV   A, C
0x00B0  B7        ORA   A
0x00B1  C4 13 22  CNZ   0x2213    ; clear (DE) count C
...
; Checksum
0x0180  21 00 00  LXI   HL, 0x0000
0x0183  AF        XRA   A
0x0184  86        ADD   (HL)
0x0185  2C        INR   L
0x0186  C2 84 01  JNZ   0x0184
0x0189  47        MOV   B, A
0x018A  24        INR   H
0x018B  3E 40     MVI   A, 0x40
0x018D  BC        CMP   H
0x018E  78        MOV   A, B
0x018F  C2 84 01  JNZ   0x0184
0x0192  F5        PUSH  AF        ; 0x0C8C  3A 00 41  LDA   (0x4100)
0x0193  F3        DI              ; 0x0C8F  E6 70     ANI   0x70
0x0194  CD 8C 0C  CALL  0x0C8C    ; 0x0C91  C9        RET
0x0197  C4 5F 15  CNZ   0x155F    ; ext. I/O reset
0x019A  F1        POP   AF        ;                          0x02F0  F5        PUSH  AF
0x019B  B7        ORA   A         ; test result              0x02F1  3E F0     MVI   A, 0xF0
0x019C  0E 08     MVI   C, 0x08   ;                          0x02F3  CD 85 05  CALL  0x0585
0x019E  FB        EI              ;                          0x02F6  F1        POP   AF
0x019F  C4 B8 02  CNZ   0x02B8    ; Error                    0x02F7  3D        DCR   A
0x01A2  3E 02     MVI   A, 0x02   ;                          0x02F8  C2 F0 02  JNZ   0x02F0
0x01A4  CD F0 02  CALL  0x02F0    ; wait                     0x02FB  C9        RET
0x01A7  CD 83 06  CALL  0x0683    ; show module test results
« Last Edit: January 05, 2023, 12:36:48 pm by m k »
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Offline m kTopic starter

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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2022, 05:56:35 am »
503/604 software is now different.
CRC Checksum is zero and the set will boot and start measuring.
Filename is a bit different since its reliability is wavering.

Another CRC checksum zeroing location can be 0x0007.
Before the last version the value of that location is always different.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2023, 12:35:05 pm by m k »
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Offline m kTopic starter

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Re: Fluke 8500A, 8502A(T), 8505A, 8506A modules
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2023, 03:35:19 pm »
Backplane front side card edge connector is generally,
(based on mechanical 0.1 mm caliper and less than perfect vision)
(but printed and verified)
1.5" spacing and 2mm wide contacts.

Front side slot is 20 center based regulars,
then 8 thirds to next center and 2 regulars,
then triple wide contact as 2 regulars and their gap,
then 5 thirds to next center from 2nd regular of triple wide and 2 regulars,
then one regular missing electrical parts.

So 1.27 mm spacing can reach all centers but backplane connector is dual finger, so not a good match with PCI edge.

E,
PCBs are not tested and female connector series is EDAC 379 etc.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2023, 05:56:32 pm by m k »
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