Fluke 867B, good or obsolete?

[Wytnucls]

Just bought a Fluke 867B for a little under 300$. Would be keen to hear from people familiar with the meter, to find out if it is still a useful tool in a world of cheap oscilloscopes.

[kripton2035]

I had one once ago.
found it too slow for everyday use
and the nicd batteries don't last long you must charge it too often
may be if you can hack it with a lithium pack ?
otherwise nice tool.

[Wytnucls]

Yes, 8hrs isn't much. I will use it mostly on the bench. So, I hope it can be powered on with the charger connected.

[edavid]

What is the sample rate in DSO mode?

[Wytnucls]

Sample Rate: 4.8 Megasamples per second. 1MHz max (-3dB).
Screen update rate: 4 times per second

Features
• Waveform Display to 1 MHz Safety-rated to 1000V
• Digital Display/30,000 counts
• Selectable True-rms or Average Sensing
• Continuity/Conductance/Capacitance
• Duty Cycle/Pulse Width/Period/Frequency
• Min/Max/Average with Time Stamp
• Relative Mode
• Touch Hold® and Peak Hold
• dB, AutoDiode™
• Auto/Manual Ranging, Smoothing™
• RS232 Interface (software and cable optional)
• Logic Activity
• Component Test
• LCD backlight
• Waveform memory

[blacksheeplogic]

Just bought a Fluke 867B for a little under 300$. Would be keen to hear from people familiar with the meter, to find out if it is still a useful tool in a world of cheap oscilloscopes.

Very nice meter, but aside from battery life, the problem I've had with these and several other Flukes is the size. It's the main reason the Fluke 117 is my most used meter.

[tautech]

Yes, 8hrs isn't much. I will use it mostly on the bench. So, I hope it can be powered on with the charger connected.

One of the not so small advantages with HH's is the isolation from mains ground they provide so just watch/check that when it's on the charger you aren't connected to mains GND. 

[glicos]

For me it help me a lot and been using it as my main meter for 9 years till know, esp the component test function. Only drawback is the battery (but now i upgrade it to lithium that i bought from aliexpress) and maybe due to old age, the LCD started to fade but when viewed directly in front its normal. I already bought a new LCD and just waiting for it to arrived. The "oscilloscope" function is not that much of use...only for quick visual indicator.





Overall, its a good meter for me..

[glicos]

Yes, 8hrs isn't much. I will use it mostly on the bench. So, I hope it can be powered on with the charger connected.

Yes it can be powered from the bench using the charger

[kwass]

I've had mine since it first came out in 1997 (?),  I use it mostly on the bench but portably when I need too.  I also have an HP 34401A and a Fluke 8846A for bench meters but there are some things the 867b does better than either of those:

1) almost instant startup
2) auto-direction diode test
3) fastest, latching continuity tester I've ever used

... then there's the portability and quick visual waveform display.

It's never drifted out of calibration and I've only had to replace the battery pack once in 19 years.

[Wytnucls]

Thank you all for the information. I will probably have a few more questions after I receive the meter and get to play with all its unfamiliar functions.

[mos6502]

Looks like an interesting meter. Does anyone know if the graphing function works in all modes? I.e., can you graph resistance, frequency, current?

[Wytnucls]

Most modes as you can see:

[Wytnucls]

Here are a few pictures of the beast. Very happy with it. I don't know when the last calibration was performed, if any, but it seems to be very close to my DC volt reference.

[Wytnucls]

The meter has some unusual features.
Here is one where the trend screen in Ohms mode shows glitches (>1us) as small vertical bars on the horizontal axis every time continuity is lost or goes above range threshold.
The trend timeline may be stretched up to 30 hours, with a glitch bar shown if detected in any 15 minute interval.

[kwass]

There are lots of unusual and useful features in the 867b.

The Auto Diode feature identifies and displays the cathode and anode leads and the Manual Diode with tone on works like the HP/Agilent/Keysight 34401 where it beeps if the forward diode drop is in range.

You can combine functions such as Touch Hold and Trend so that the meter will lock onto a fixed values while still displaying the trend.

It has three powers sources: mains adapter/changer, nicad/nimh cells (easily changed built-in pack), 6 x AA cells (built-in holder).

It's really too bad that they stopped making this meter.  Overall, I like it far better than any other meter I have or have used.  It was outrageously  expensive back in the day but it was worth every penny.

[Wytnucls]

I concur. The 867B has become my favorite meter.
Well conceived, with user-friendly menus and dependable.
Although a monster size wise, once on its stand, it is very sturdy and the footprint is bearable on the desk.
Even the rudimentary scope function has some use:
For instance, inrush current starting a small DC motor.

http://www.industrialelectronics.biz/fluke/gmm-app2.htm

[glicos]

Have a schematic for a DIY optical cable for Fluke 867b and software that might be useful. Hope this will help user of 867b Grpahical Multimeter..

DIY Cable:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Z7TQYJ7AI0b2ZXRndYOE5NLU0

Fluke 860 Software:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Z7TQYJ7AI0Q0lCSDdVVkpCaTA

[Wytnucls]

SW860 FlukeView software manual:

[Wytnucls]

Software won't install on Windows 10. Needs a Windows 3.0 machine.

[kwass]

Software won't install on Windows 10. Needs a Windows 3.0 machine.

Maybe try running under DOSBOX, I'll bet that works fine.

[Wytnucls]

It would with the DOS program files. glicos posted the windows files only.
Might have to dig my old Compaq 286 out of the cobwebs!

[timb]

It would with the DOS program files. glicos posted the windows files only.
Might have to dig my old Compaq 286 out of the cobwebs!

You can install Windows 3.x in DOSbox. VMware would also work. (In that case, there's a DOS .com file you might want to use, to prevent your CPU from pegging 100% all the time; I can dig it up if you want it. Otherwise, FreeDOS works just as well, only newer, and also supports Windows!)

[ci11]

FlukeView 860 runs perfectly in Virtual PC "XP Mode" under Windows 7

[Wytnucls]

Thanks ci11, I have an old XP desktop and the software works fine on it.
Now for the PM9080 cable. Some are available on eBay, but are quite pricey, at around 150$.
May have to build my own eventually, as per glicos files.

[fred785]

The 86x family is a great tool for me too, it's a real swiss knife you can carry everywhere (despite the poor brightness/contrast of the 863 model).

For the owners (like me) of the little brother 863, it seems there's an easy way to add the 2 missing hidden functionnalities (component test and logic) from the 867. But now way for its backlight (except changing the display board).

For the 2 fonctionnalities, you need to carefully disassemble the GMM and extract the rotary knob from the front panel.
You'll find 2 little stops at the rear of this knob.
Erase one (the good one) stop in the aim to allow the rotation like a 867 model, with a simple cutter.
Re-assemble all.
It's finished, enjoy 

[IslamIslame]

 This is a somewhat dated post so my response may be of little value. I have some limited experience in Electronics with a majority of my professional experience being in EMI/EMC Test area(Anechoic chamber, TEM cell discrete component to full vehicle open area calibrated ground plane full System/Vehicle test). I did not use the Fluke 86x class meter in a professional capacity so my opinion is based on my non professional experience.
 The Fluke 86X Graphical Multi Meters I have are 2-867Bs and 1-863 meter, so my comments are limited to these 2 iterations of the meter as I have no experience with  the 865 or 867(non B) variants. The 863 is very similar to the 867B. the 863 does not have the Logic capacity of the 867 nor the charging/battery use convenience and it is slightly less resolute, accurate. precise(These descriptors are sometimes applied with individual interpretation, so if you disagree with my assessment- ok! Refer to the specs for your own interpretation).
 My favorite non bench Meter is the Fluke 189.
There has been some commenting on the Fluke 86x battery life/capacity issues and if you have an 863 or 867B and don't own the Fluke BE860-120 Battery Eliminator or the BC7217 charger there is a simple and convenient solution! I have found that using rechargables such as the Ansmann 2850mAh NiMH AA batteries. I have used standard eneloop AA LSD batteries without any issues. {I am going to rechargables(eneloop/Ansmann) in all of my meters.} The batteries in the 86x are quick and simple to change and keeping 2 sets(with 1 set always charged and ready) is a miniscule inconvenience; the Fluke 86x meters usefulness and capabilities make a 20 second battery swap a non issue! I have the charger and battery eliminators for my 86X meters and I will probably just use the Ansmann 2850(or equivalent) when the Fluke rechargables wear out? The Ansmann 2850's will give you way over 10 hours of use but I don't have a more exact time. The capabilities of the Fluke 86X meters are well worth any perceived battery issue! I have found my 86x meters to be of the highest quality, well built, accurate, repeatable.....! All of the specs of the 86x meters are available online and free so I am not going to lay them all down here.
The component test function is just one of the great features of the Fluke 86X meter. I am creating a catalogue of known good, in circuit components and storing this on the bench laptop pc. The 86X meters can offload data to the pc with FlukeView 860 software. I work on a lot of the same boards from several different models of equipment . Having a known good visual representation to compare a possible problem "on board component" with can really narrow down suspect areas on repair/refurb jobs!
The 86X meters can be had any where from around $100 to well over a $1000. My 863 was an eBay "win" as well as were the 867Bs. The 863 was $180 and it was brand new. 1 867B was around $350 with Charger and Battery Eliminator and the other 867B with just the BE. Fluke 86x NOS meters come up every once in a while. With the manual being available online it is easy to see the specs and capabilities of these meters and make your mind up about "obsolescence"?!

OFF ON A TANGENT
  I, myself, read and watch reviews on youtube and various forums by some very interesting and often laughable neophyte "Arduino" engineers? The "sack" that some of these folks have is curious to me? They put themselves out to the viewers as knowledgeable and experienced in electronics and proceed to give their "expert" opinions on DMM's to Spectrum Analyzers even inferring that companies like Fluke and Tektronix look to them for design ideas, mods and upgrades? Some of these "experts" make comparison videos using a cardboard photo in place of one of the meters being reviewed? They then proceed to proclaim the offshore DMM(marketed under multiple names by a multitude of "manufacturers") as the Greatest DMM in History, while their audience, at break neck speed, goes into warp factor 8 search mode to find and buy the new King of Meters! The viewers then make all kinds of comments, stroking the neophyte Arduino engineers ego and reaffirming their brilliant review and conclusions! Neophyte Arduino Engineer puts up his video showing his new Amazon page where subscribers can buy "his" recommended gear! Neophyte laughs all the way to the bank! Subscribers are happy because they to are becoming "Super Trick Arduino Engineers" as their electronics expertise grows exponentially with every new purchase!
 Why did I go on a tangent and off script? Frustration by the stupidity of a seemingly overwhelming number of clueless experts proclaiming things they are absolutely unqualified to proclaim! I personally know EE's , Master and Ph.D. level engineers, with their designs in geosynchronous orbit as I type, who are using Fluke 8020s/Fluke 75s and Tek 465Bs  on their home benches? These guys design, build and repair electronics with their 30 & 40 year old gear just fine! How can they do it without a Bluetooth capable, secondarily  displayed DC+AC... data streaming off shore Super meters? Just imagine what they could do if they would just buy Neophyte Arduino's recommended super meter?!!!

I don't have a thing against Arduino or NooBs or YouTube! I have absolutely nothing against the newest, most trick equipment and own some of it myself! I do have an issue with Bulls Hit!

Fluke 86x GMMs are not obsolete, not even close! If you are into electronics design, repair or just a fiddler the 86x meters will give you more capability than you will ever need! And if you can pick a good used one up for the right price you will likely never lose a dime on it? If you buy a good Fluke 867B today, I can almost guarantee that you will get 100%, or more, of your money back when/if you sell it in 6 months or 5 years?! That aint the case with your Brymen, Greenlee or other such DMM!! A slightly used "wonder" meter is half off,  if you can even sell it, no matter how old it is! Am I bad mouthing these "new " DMMs? Absolutely not! I appreciate the reviews when a qualified, well learned individuals does them. You don't see or hear Mr. Jones bloviating and making unequivocal statements of fact about a piece of equipment unless he has had first hand and substantiative experience with the unit he is speaking about? At least not that I have seen? In fact his "in passing" comments are far more authoritative than many others simply because he has years of real world knowledge!

Back to the OP's initial question

I have 3 Fluke 86Xs and will most likely be getting more, I have a genetic anomaly that makes me hoard/pack rat stuff, I have 12 brand new 87Vs. 10 brand new-287s- 6 brand new 289s and 189s, 187's........ all new "backups" and a whole bunch of non new meters that I use. Do I need most of the gear I have? Absolutely not! I got what I got because some of it I needed, most of it I wanted, and because I could, in a twisted way it provides me with joy and comfort, I have a fear of needing a tool and not having it! I have no delusion that ownership of gear equates to expertise!  If I was forced to pick just 2 meters I would keep a 189 and 867B. Am I stupid, maybe? Foolish? Usually! 

IS THE FLUKE 8767B OBSOLETE?
OF COURSE IT IS- To the YouTube Super Trick Ph.D. Arduino Designer with 2 1/2 months of experience and his obsequious YouTube subscribers! it is a thing to be abhorred!
To me the Fluke 86X GMM is a great tool to be had at a bargain price!
Get a good deal on one, learn how to use it to its full potential and you will be very glad you did!

[akimmet]

I have one of these huge beasts too. I got mine at a local hamfest for $200 USD. Lots of guys were drooling over it all day, but seller said I was the only person to actually make an offer.
I use the scope feature for viewing current pulses. It is just barely good enough, but much more convenient than carrying around a current probe and scope.

[gfernval]

Here is FlukeView for DOS (both Scopemeter and 860)

[gica69]

Will your mod really enable those 2 functions? Is it built in already and the stoppers are the only thing preventing their functionality? Let me know if you've tried it already. Thanks in advance.

[kripton2035]

Hi,
where did you get lithium batteries for the 860 ?
thanks.

[jazz57]

Anyone have luck replacing their battery? The one I have doesn't seem to charge. 

[kripton2035]

I bought mine on ebay germany. so far it's working.
I still would like to get one lithium battery for the 867. did not find one !

[mahi]

Anyone have luck replacing their battery? The one I have doesn't seem to charge. 

The Fluke 867B was sold with the BP7217 NiCd battery pack which could be charged inside the multimeter. Years after the 867B was discontinued, Fluke also stopped manufacturing the BP7217 battery pack and replaced it with the BP7235 NiMH battery pack. From the outside the new battery pack looks exactly the same but it will not charge inside the 867B! Clearly Fluke felt that the charging circuit of the 860 family was not suited for NiMH batteries and changed the contact wiring to make the multimeter see the pack as a non-rechargeable battery.

In the BP7217 contacts + (plus) and C are connected. In the BP7235 they are not. If you look at the back of the 867B with the battery removed you'll notice it had 3 pins that make contact with the battery. The pins line up with + (plus), C and - (minus). So the multimeter is using contact C to determine wether the battery is rechargeable.

You have 3 options (if you want to use the BP7235):

• Get the stupendously expensive Fluke BC7217 battery charger and make sure you get the later version with NiMH support. You still can't charge inside the multimeter but at least you can charge and use the battery pack.
• Charge the pack outside the multimeter with a hobby RC battery charger and leads with crocodile/alligator clips. Any charger that can do 6S NiMH at 1~2 amperes will do the job.
• Open the multimeter and make a short between the + (plus) and C contacts. From now on, any battery will be considered rechargeable - even if it is not (so pay attention when you are using alkaline cells - don't hook up the power supply).

I modified my 867B to be able to recharge the BP7235 but I undid it later again. Why? The charging circuit of the 867B is not worth the name. It's a constant charge @ ~170 mA for 16 hours (fixed timer starting whenever the power supply is inserted and regardless of battery condition), then drops to ~40 mA and never cuts off. Since there's no real battery status indicator either it's practically impossible to know when the battery pack is fully charged and the power supply should be disconnected. It's also annoying for extended measurement/logging sessions where the meter is powered from the external supply for tens of hours because you are basically cooking the battery pack.

So in the end I just resorted to using a hobby RC charger. I have two BP7235 packs so the charging time is not that relevant to me.

[kwass]

I bought one of these replacements on Amazon years ago and it's been working fine every since: 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B71NCMY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

No modifications needed and pretty inexpensive.

[jazz57]

Thank you, Mahi! This is just the info. I was looking for. Apparently the battery I received has the disconnected 'C' terminal. Since the rather simple charger in the meter isn't really ideal for NiMH chemistry, I think I'll just install some Eneloops for occasional use and connect the battery eliminator when I have a long bench session.

And thanks as well to kwass. If I ever decide to get a battery back I'll select an HQRP rather than the Cameron Sino.

The EEVBlog is the best for info. like this!

[harrimansat]

Try this, is a HP printer emulator

[kripton2035]

here is a battery upgrade to li-ion for a fluke 97. the supplies of the 97 and 867 are really close to each other. may be I will try it.

[rvalente]

For me it help me a lot and been using it as my main meter for 9 years till know, esp the component test function. Only drawback is the battery (but now i upgrade it to lithium that i bought from aliexpress) and maybe due to old age, the LCD started to fade but when viewed directly in front its normal. I already bought a new LCD and just waiting for it to arrived. The "oscilloscope" function is not that much of use...only for quick visual indicator.





Overall, its a good meter for me..

The LCD "glass" itself is probably fine, this generation of polarizers usually go bad, often is just a matter of getting the film in sheets, cut and replace. I saved my THS720 from this curse, there is topic here

[harrimansat]

Serial commands for 867             

COMMAND NAME               COMMAND      PAGE
               -------------------------------------------------------
               DEFAULT SETUP                DS           9
               IDENTIFICATION               ID          10
               PROGRAM COMMUNICATION        PC          11
               PROGRAM CONFIGURATION        PM          13
               PROGRAM WAVEFORM             PW          15
               QUERY DATA                   QD          17
               QUERY MEASUREMENT            QM          18
               QUERY PRINT                  QP          20
               QUERY WAVEFORM               QW          22
               RESET INSTRUMENT             RI          23
               SET FUNCTION                 SF          25

[harrimansat]

Battery charger has a 16 hours timer to prevent battery toast. The problem is that timer is reset every time that adaptor is connected.

[Wytnucls]

The meter has a logic function (TTL, CMOS 3/5V).

Does anyone make use of that function?
If you do, please explain how that feature fits in your workflow.

[Fretec]

I'd say it's nice device if you see it more as a multimeter and not a scope, but the enormous size is an issue.
The first time I ever saw one in person I was surprised it was even bigger then I expected from seeing it on pics.

But if that doesnt bother you or you use it on the bench all the time anyway, it's still useful and nice to have.

[Swake]

Because it is devouring batteries this meter was put in a drawer years ago as I don't have a working rechargeable battery and no charger/power supply for mine. Couldn't find a fitting connector at the time either.
Opened that drawer again today with the intend to add a USB connector and a 9v boost converter in the battery compartment. There is more than enough room in there

Is the output of an El-cheapo boost converter of a good enough quality to not interfere with the quality of the measurements?

[viper]

Hey guys, I stumbled into this thread and hoping some of the community is still around that added to this thread?  I have an 867 but not the B model.  I do believe the only difference was the display.  Mine is more amber colored.  Which brings me to my questions. 

1.  The display sucks.  Even with the lights down, it is very hard to see.  I am not sure if it is even possible to modify the backlight in one of these LCDs?  If not, I have noticed China pushing replacement displays on egay.  I am not sure of the quality and I think they are a bit over priced at $40.  I would be so excited to find a high rez screen like OLED or something?  Open to any ideas! 

2.  What got me searching on the 867 is my battery is completely toast.  I have to plug in to even use the meter.  I was going to attempt to hack the battery case to just swap cells but I learned lots in this thread.  Really, this meter is probably not "the best", but I love it like family and would like to modernize where I can.  A lithium battery would not be difficult, even if I had to remove and charge outside the meter I guess.  Just getting more capacity would really minimize the charges anyway.  But that brings me to important questions about the internals of the 867 charge system.  It appears the OE charger is just an unregulated DC walwart.  I would assume Fluke had a regulator in the meter?  I guess to get down to it, I am trying to figure out what voltages will be tolerable in the device? 

The way I see it, it sure sounds like people put Alkaline batts in these too.  I didn't know that was possible but NiCad is 1.2vpc, and Alk is 1.5vpc and I am sure there was head room for over achieving cell voltage.  I would not mind drilling a new charge port or seeing how we can do this.  It really seems like if you bypass the OEM charge circuit, and take new leads right to the battery terms, the meter would have no idea if it was charging or not, and more modern charge techniques could be used on Li chemistry? 

OK, now I have to go open that meter and study it.  Can of worms here. 

[viper]

So......   I of course decided to go down the rabbit hole a bit after making the above post.  I cannot really figure out the charge programming in the meter but here is where I am at right now. 

1.  The terminals in the meter for AA Alkaline batts and the NiCad pack are connected (there are different terminals).  This means without a double IMO, running up to 10V is no issue at all. 

2.  The OE charger is most certainly a regulated transformer PSU, set at 11.8V. 

3.  I think the charge circuit is "voltage sensing" to try to determine what is in there and how to deal with it.  For instance, when I removed the battery and bar the Pos and T term, then plug in the charger, the term voltage in the meter is full charger voltage of 11.8V.  It did not blow up but I sort of wonder if that is a good idea. When I don't connect anything and plug in, the voltage at the meter terms were maybe around 8V, so it certainly further regulates the voltage. 

What is most odd to me is with testing, I realized when I plugged the battery and charger into the meter, the battery term voltage would drop to 0.  As well, I checked the battery and it was reading a super solid 0.000V.  Like dead to the world!  Typically even a bad battery will take a little charge for a bit.  So on a hunch, I jump started the battery with a 10V pack.  It took about .5A for about 1min or so.  I then tested the battery voltage at 8V, stuck it in the meter and it actually turned on the display!  So I stabbed the charger in on that and it is now drinking 500mA of charge from a 300mA charger....lol  We will see what happens here. 

Another thing I realized is I believe it terminates battery charging when you use the meter while plugged in!  I will have to further verify but current went from 500mA to 200mA when I turned on the meter.  One would expect current to increase.  Or maybe it moves to a trickle.  Either way, she won't do any serious charging (if at all) while running. 

[emanuel_nb@hotmail.com]

Maybe just to update the topic, as the other answers helped me with my decision to buy an 867B almost a year ago.
I'm using the 867B, I bought it with the battery not working, but it was for a good price so it was really worth it, unfortunately it didn't come with a charger. But I'm using 6 rechargeable AA batteries. It was really worth it, I bought it for around 400 USD I think, I compared it with another multimeter, to see if the measurements are calibrated and empirically I believe it is calibrated. I work with repair of servodrives and VFDs, very useful to test some signals using the "view" mode. I find it a little slow, but I use it as my main bench equipment to analyze electronic circuits. The component test mode is very useful, I bought the communication cable for a great price, along with some software diskettes (that's right, diskette), I downloaded the software in this post if I'm not mistaken, so I use it to collect V curves /I. I bought it precisely for this reason, as the prices of equipment like ABI are very expensive. I'm trying to purchase a Fluke scopemeter, getting the courage to buy it, as they are quite expensive, but I want to purchase the Fluke 225C, mainly through the use of "Bushealth".
Como falamos aqui no Brasil: Fluke é Fluke.