EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Osirison on June 09, 2017, 05:37:53 pm
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This week I got my first Fluke multimeter, most of the time I use my Metrahit Extra from work which is great but wanted a solid multimeter for myself at home as well.
I was considering the Metrahit Xtra (not Extra but xtra 8) those wacky Germans) or the Fluke 87V and because of the update rate at 4 times/sec on the Fluke and the Metrahit always seem to settle after the first reading and it updates only twice a second so in fact it gives the correct reading after 1 second. So I bought a Fluke 87V.
Unpacking the Fluke I noticed the quality and finish of the meter was not like the Metrahit meters but its still good, then switched it on and noticed at the ohms range the meter did cause trouble most of the time, I've also seen readings of -7 Ohm when shorting the leads. |O
This should have been noticed by the quality control.
I have contacted Fluke and they confirmed the device to be broken and I should contact my dealer (Reichelt Germany) about this which has not replied to my email yet. :-[
Made a short video of the flaw in the Fluke meter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lttvDIMVolQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lttvDIMVolQ)
For me this is for sure a bad start with Fluke and now I am thinking that I should have bought the Metrahit xtra, maybe I can ask Reichelt to return the broke Fluke and change it to the Metrahit xtra, this would cost me an extra 50 euro.
Have anyone else been experiencing bad quality meters lately from Fluke? and would you buy a 87V again or go with the Metrahit xtra?
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We got a batch of 87V's in at work about a month ago, (around 30 of them) not had any issues. I would just return it and get a replacement, unless you just want the xtra.
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Send it back, quick.
As for the quality, maybe they are made in China with no quality control there.
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It's just bad luck. Take the replacement.
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Thank you all for your comments! :)
Send it back, quick.
As for the quality, maybe they are made in China with no quality control there.
This is what I thought when I got the Fluke out of the box, also on the meter is not shown where it is made.
If it was made in the USA they would definitely print it on the back of the meter too.
And the invoice of Reichelt noted the country of origin to be China.
One other reason to go for the German made Metrahit I guess.
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One other reason to go for the German made Metrahit I guess.
Have you been following this thread?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg1207306/#msg1207306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg1207306/#msg1207306)
The "German made Metrahit" has quite a few problems even when it's working as designed. :popcorn:
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That's interesting news. The US Fluke 87V had said Assembled or Made in USA for some years on the back, and yes, there is a variant that is nearly identical the 87V C, but made in China. Unless this has all changed. The US versions had this near the battery case:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/NCIAAOSwwpdW7Y1L/s-l1600.jpg)
Thank you all for your comments! :)
Send it back, quick.
As for the quality, maybe they are made in China with no quality control there.
This is what I thought when I got the Fluke out of the box, also on the meter is not shown where it is made.
If it was made in the USA they would definitely print it on the back of the meter too.
And the invoice of Reichelt noted the country of origin to be China.
One other reason to go for the German made Metrahit I guess.
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Does it say "Made in USA" still in the back as in the prior photo?
We got a batch of 87V's in at work about a month ago, (around 30 of them) not had any issues. I would just return it and get a replacement, unless you just want the xtra.
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Mine which dates from 2015 (but I've only just bought) has "Made in USA" on the bumper but not on the instrument itself. Does this mean it is made in China?
It is a bit disingenuous because it has Fluke USA on it but doesn't actually say it is made in the USA. See attached photos.
[EDIT]
Looking at the cardboard box it came in, it says country of origin US and that it is made in the US with imported parts, what ever that means. See added photos.
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Does it say "Made in USA" still in the back as in the prior photo?
We got a batch of 87V's in at work about a month ago, (around 30 of them) not had any issues. I would just return it and get a replacement, unless you just want the xtra.
I'll look Monday and see, I'm not sure.
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On mine which is serial number 8941xxxx
Back of meter body reads Fluke Corporation MADE IN USA
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The yellow holster reads MADE IN USA Patent Pending
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Take it back and if the next one has ANY issues, get a refund
and buy a used older 87V instead,
that's what I did, it works great :-+ and no GSM BS afaict
Who knows WHERE and by WHO they are made. :-//
It's NOT GOOD ENOUGH to be paying FLUKE -MADE IN USA- PRICES in 2017, >:(
and getting -Made In Too Hung Lo Factory- quality :-[
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Get HIOKI DT4282 just seen one and it lovely meter.
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Hey Osirison,
what is the manufacture month and year of your meter and what is the serial number starting with ?
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This week I got my first Fluke multimeter, most of the time I use my Metrahit Extra from work which is great but wanted a solid multimeter for myself at home as well.
I was considering the Metrahit Xtra (not Extra but xtra 8) those wacky Germans) or the Fluke 87V and because of the update rate at 4 times/sec on the Fluke and the Metrahit always seem to settle after the first reading and it updates only twice a second so in fact it gives the correct reading after 1 second. So I bought a Fluke 87V.
Unpacking the Fluke I noticed the quality and finish of the meter was not like the Metrahit meters but its still good, then switched it on and noticed at the ohms range the meter did cause trouble most of the time, I've also seen readings of -7 Ohm when shorting the leads. |O
This should have been noticed by the quality control.
I have contacted Fluke and they confirmed the device to be broken and I should contact my dealer (Reichelt Germany) about this which has not replied to my email yet. :-[
Made a short video of the flaw in the Fluke meter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lttvDIMVolQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lttvDIMVolQ)
For me this is for sure a bad start with Fluke and now I am thinking that I should have bought the Metrahit xtra, maybe I can ask Reichelt to return the broke Fluke and change it to the Metrahit xtra, this would cost me an extra 50 euro.
Have anyone else been experiencing bad quality meters lately from Fluke? and would you buy a 87V again or go with the Metrahit xtra?
Go with the Metrahit. FF
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Mine which dates from 2015 (but I've only just bought) has "Made in USA" on the bumper but not on the instrument itself. Does this mean it is made in China?
My 87V is an a few years old now made in the USA. My 117 is made in China. The quality of the 117 is every bit as good as the 87V and far better than my original 87 I've had for a couple of decades.
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Don t wait for a response . Just send it back to Reichelt . They will send you a new one or give you the money back . You can choose on the return delivery slip
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Hey Osirison,
what is the manufacture month and year of your meter and what is the serial number starting with ?
The meter is manufactured in May 2017
Serial number is 38710078
Does it say "Made in USA" still in the back as in the prior photo?
We got a batch of 87V's in at work about a month ago, (around 30 of them) not had any issues. I would just return it and get a replacement, unless you just want the xtra.
(https://s11.postimg.org/c941m52n7/IMG_0839.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6kxqv8yan/)
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I guess I will save up for a Gossen and see how German made quality is, compared with KS and Fluke.
Start here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg1207306/#msg1207306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg1207306/#msg1207306)
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My 87V is an a few years old now made in the USA. My 117 is made in China. The quality of the 117 is every bit as good as the 87V and far better than my original 87 I've had for a couple of decades.
Yep. The Chinese can make stuff as well as anybody. If you're willing to pay for it.
Fluke may try to reduce their manufacturing costs by building in China but they aren't going to sell something substandard.
maybe they are made in China with no quality control.
Yeah, Fluke would totally throw away their reputation by doing that. :palm:
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I guess I will save up for a Gossen and see how German made quality is, compared with KS and Fluke.
Start here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg1207306/#msg1207306 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg1207306/#msg1207306)
First off, it's "here kitty..." not "hear..."
Second don't believe any of that BS propaganda...
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I guess I will save up for a Gossen and see how German made quality is, compared with KS and Fluke.
I nearly went for a Gossen - TestTools in the UK sell them new, but also sell off some of their new-old stock at a decent discount if they've not managed to shift them and the calibration is getting out-of-date:
http://www.testtoolsshop.com/when-theyve-gone-theyve-gone (http://www.testtoolsshop.com/when-theyve-gone-theyve-gone)
But in the end I went for the 87V because it was much cheaper "new" off e-bay, £190 vs £300 for the Gossen Metrahit Xtra though the latter would have a years warranty.
If I was buying new the Gossen is attractive but the other thing that put me off them was the fact that they can lose their calibration when a firmware update is done and it is expensive to get them re-calibrated. I think this is the case, there was a thread on here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/problems-with-gossen-metrahit-energy-meters/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/problems-with-gossen-metrahit-energy-meters/)
It is an old thread so things may have changed but it did put me off a bit.
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Second don't believe any of that BS propaganda...
Is that the same "BS propaganda" that Gossen is currently using to update their meter design (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg1227597/#msg1227597)?
I only pointed it out because I wouldn't like to spend $800 on a meter and then stumble across that thread. I think I'd like to see that thread before purchasing.
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Second don't believe any of that BS propaganda...
Is that the same "BS propaganda" that Gossen is currently using to update their meter design (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg1227597/#msg1227597)?
I only pointed it out because I wouldn't like to spend $800 on a meter and then stumble across that thread. I think I'd like to see that thread before purchasing.
Gossen has written me about doing a risk assessment for the potential safety problem I brought up with the relay effecting the AC line measurement and are looking into my other concerns. Surely you realize P90 is just trolling and has been for some time. If anyone feels what I am presenting is misleading, they are certainly welcome to repeat the test and show where I am wrong. Rather than just calling what I post "BS propaganda", post something of substance.
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Surely you realize P90 is just trolling and has been for some time.
Yes, but the person who started this thread might not.
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Don t wait for a response . Just send it back to Reichelt . They will send you a new one or give you the money back . You can choose on the return delivery slip
Hey WackyGerman 8)
They did not provide a return slib, maybe only for orders within Germany but I did fill in the online return form for international customers.
Maybe they respond faster on the form than by email.
Surely you realize P90 is just trolling and has been for some time.
Yes, but the person who started this thread might not.
Certainly not trolling, any input is welcome of course!
I still feel not happy with the Fluke, they really seem to have gone the Chinese road but still charge USA made prices.
Maybe I am just unlucky or maybe more bad Flukes are on the way. :-DMM
Its very hard to choose between Fluke or Gossen, they both have their flaws.
Right now I am looking into the Metrahit Ultra and was hoping to find more about the findings of Joeqsmith, anyone else that could reproduce the RF disturbance flaw with another meter.
And is this just the Ultra or are also the Xtra and Extra affected by this.
If Gossen would have solved this in their new production then I am sold. :-+
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Thanks. Years ago the US military "required" T&M gear to be made in USA to insure it wasn't malware to their weapons systems, they could insure traceability of the all parts, as well as insure top quality, in an era of the slow demise of military and aerospace specifically designed parts.
Its one reason the 87V was "Made in USA" for so long, as well as a few other DMMs in the catalog, when so many targeted for civilian market were made in China.
However today, with parts coming from all over the world, the meaning of "made in " is increasingly vague, particularly as defined by the US FTC, so the word assembled and tested replaced that, meaning it would be made anywhere either whole or in part, but on delivery the final assembly and testing to insure its meets military specs would again be done in the USA.
Of interest, when Fluke China started assembling the 87V with a "China" version that differed only in the labels on the rear casing, country of origin and the letter "C" it was interesting coincidental that in ~ 2012 that US military no long considered the 87V as the goto DMM, and selected the 287 or 289, usually coded as the AN/GSM437.
For the TEMOD project, the actual DMM model not not been concluded but its defacto the 287/9, and a shipment/orders of over 3000 DMM were made in the last 5 years as a wholesale replacement of current DMMs, all Fluke.
The 287/9 AFIAK is still assembled in USA.
Bottom line, I wouldn't be surprised if the US manufacture of the 87V would quietly be terminated and the Chinese version made the worldwide supply of this model, with suitably changed labels and the removal of the 'made in...' label.
As another said, the Chinese versions for this old technology can be made very well, so long as proper QA are followed. Bottom line is best to return it as its warranted for life anyway.
FWIW, for past year you can see on eBay off/on NIB Fluke 87V sold by US sellers for under $300, which is again, suspicious that many parts are not USA manufacture.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-87-V-Industrial-True-rms-Multimeter-with-Temperature-BRAND-NEW-in-Box-/132220253047?hash=item1ec8f0f377:g:8n4AAOSwJAtZOXEn (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluke-87-V-Industrial-True-rms-Multimeter-with-Temperature-BRAND-NEW-in-Box-/132220253047?hash=item1ec8f0f377:g:8n4AAOSwJAtZOXEn)
Hey Osirison,
what is the manufacture month and year of your meter and what is the serial number starting with ?
The meter is manufactured in May 2017
Serial number is 38710078
Does it say "Made in USA" still in the back as in the prior photo?
We got a batch of 87V's in at work about a month ago, (around 30 of them) not had any issues. I would just return it and get a replacement, unless you just want the xtra.
(https://s11.postimg.org/c941m52n7/IMG_0839.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/6kxqv8yan/)
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There is usually this type of sticker on the side of the box:
As you can see recent manufacture from US sellers still say country of origin is US
Thank you all for your comments! :)
Send it back, quick.
As for the quality, maybe they are made in China with no quality control there.
This is what I thought when I got the Fluke out of the box, also on the meter is not shown where it is made.
If it was made in the USA they would definitely print it on the back of the meter too.
And the invoice of Reichelt noted the country of origin to be China.
One other reason to go for the German made Metrahit I guess.
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Fluke has worked hard to gain their reputation for quality/reliable meters, it's how they justify their prices.
Are they really going to start making junk in China and throw all that hard work away?
Nope.
If they're manufacturing in China you can bet they'll use the exact same machinery/plastics/processes that they use in the USA.
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Got called into work this morning for a small issue (took all of 20 minutes- Could have waited until Monday but the boss was panicking), looked at the 4 meters I had in my area of the office all of the meters i checked said "Made in USA" on them.
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There is usually this type of sticker on the side of the box:
As you can see recent manufacture from US sellers still say country of origin is US
Thank you all for your comments! :)
Send it back, quick.
As for the quality, maybe they are made in China with no quality control there.
This is what I thought when I got the Fluke out of the box, also on the meter is not shown where it is made.
If it was made in the USA they would definitely print it on the back of the meter too.
And the invoice of Reichelt noted the country of origin to be China.
One other reason to go for the German made Metrahit I guess.
How come its got a different serial number and month ?
Am i reading the wrong meter ?
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Mine which dates from 2015 (but I've only just bought) has "Made in USA" on the bumper but not on the instrument itself. Does this mean it is made in China?
My 87V is an a few years old now made in the USA. My 117 is made in China. The quality of the 117 is every bit as good as the 87V and far better than my original 87 I've had for a couple of decades.
I don't doubt that, I have the same threesome myself and had a looksee too :-+
but why should OP still pay top dollar for a formerly -MADE IN USA- product, which now appears to be -MADE IN ???- and having issues NEW OUT OF THE BOX !!! \$\Omega\$ :horse:
The quality control and construction may appear to be excellent on some MIC meters, but what about the quality control and sourcing of the internal parts?
who is checking, and who is checking the checkers over there, where the name of the game is usually cutting costs?
The 87V is an older design with a great -same tooling run- for it's investors,
if they want to keep it running forever and make it in 'who knows where' CHEAPER
then shouldn't that reflect on the price?
Even $500 would be an over the top price for such an item in Australia, if it was a new real deal MADE IN USA in 2017.
If it's going to be a Great Wall Of Knockoff model, I'll pay $350 for a 87V-GWK with 5 year warranty
Yes, No, Fair Enough, poq, Thoughts? :-//
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Many companies move their manufacturing to china and are enjoying greater profit margins. Why lower the price? Greed is good, greed is legal.
As a cash cow, the 87V was released in 1989.
Surely Fluke have had component obsolescence issues, moved manufacturing around, including the 87V jungle IC.
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Many companies move their manufacturing to china and are enjoying greater profit margins. Why lower the price? Greed is good, greed is legal.
As a cash cow, the 87V was released in 1989.
Surely Fluke have had component obsolescence issues, moved manufacturing around, including the 87V jungle IC.
87 has been around since the early 90s but the first 87V was in 2004.
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87 has been around since the early 90s but the first 87V was in 2004.
Ah OK- I have a 87 rev5 service manual 1989 pdf (http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/83_85_87smeng0500.pdf) and confused with Series V; used that for the date. They're still an old product.
Part of me is pissed as these are so expensive and have the same basic look and features for, well 13 years.
Then I see Fluke products for sale from china (http://www.dx.com/s/fluke+multimeter?cateId=0&cateName=All%20Categories) and fear their quality today is worse than years ago.
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Many companies move their manufacturing to china and are enjoying greater profit margins. Why lower the price? Greed is good, greed is legal.
As a cash cow, the 87V was released in 1989.
Surely Fluke have had component obsolescence issues, moved manufacturing around, including the 87V jungle IC.
87V or 87-5 is the 5th generation of 87
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Many companies move their manufacturing to china and are enjoying greater profit margins. Why lower the price? Greed is good, greed is legal.
As a cash cow, the 87V was released in 1989.
Surely Fluke have had component obsolescence issues, moved manufacturing around, including the 87V jungle IC.
87 has been around since the early 90s but the first 87V was in 2004.
Surely the returns cash bag is overflowing by now and so is the 'money for jam' box.
It's not as though they did any major bankruptcy risktaking R+D from the 87 to 87V. I have both, and don't see any revolutionary new R+D in there.
Both meters produced 15 to 20 years apart agree on the same measurements, so why the stitch up prices for a MIC one in 2017 ?
I can clearly see big money R+D in the later 189 and 289 series, no complaints.
Greed may be good for some >:D but the little people sense of thrift may come into play to keep it under check..
or perhaps give Fluke the flick and take a look at Gossen, Appa, Brymen offerings
and those suss RED meters :-[ that are cheaper by the dozen :-DMM :-DMM :-DMM
(and still cheaper than buying one suss MADE IN NOTUSA Fluke) ;)
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Fluke did update the series 80 product approvals i.e. 61010 Cat. III over the years. The original 87 (Rev. 5 1989) I see had none really.
This costs a lot of money, especially if the old design fails certification and you have to redesign things. The EEVblog multimeter I think is presently in this painful regulatory spiral.
I have seen product managers want to recoup the high costs for new regulatory certs by selling the product way past it's end of life date.
Milk the cow as long as possible.
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Fluke has worked hard to gain their reputation for quality/reliable meters, it's how they justify their prices.
Are they really going to start making junk in China and throw all that hard work away?
Nope.
If they're manufacturing in China you can bet they'll use the exact same machinery/plastics/processes that they use in the USA.
I have no US made 87v to compare but at the moment I opened the box I thought it to be a bit Chineese... paint of the letters is not perfect, some scratches her and there and then it turned out to be faulty as well.
Also noticed the grey terminal for the voltage/ohms that is different than what i've seen so far.
(https://s30.postimg.org/hrfo4bdwh/IMG_0844.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mq36iuhp9/)
Point is, like Electro Detective mentioned that I paid as much for this meter than their USA made ones from like 2 years ago and even if they choose to make it in China I should expect the same top quality and service.
Because of their lack of quality control I need to ship it back to Germany which costs me extra money and hoping the next unit will be ok.
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Thats odd... both of mine are red. built April 2017
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Fluke did update the series 80 product approvals i.e. 61010 Cat. III over the years. The original 87 (Rev. 5 1989) I see had none really.
Did those measurement categories even exist at that time?
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Thats odd... mine is all red, built April 2017 serial 3854XXX :-\ :-\
Eh?? What the "fluke" are they doing??? :wtf:
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Fluke has worked hard to gain their reputation for quality/reliable meters, it's how they justify their prices.
Are they really going to start making junk in China and throw all that hard work away?
Nope.
If they're manufacturing in China you can bet they'll use the exact same machinery/plastics/processes that they use in the USA.
I have no US made 87v to compare but at the moment I opened the box I thought it to be a bit Chineese... paint of the letters is not perfect, some scratches her and there and then it turned out to be faulty as well.
Also noticed the grey terminal for the voltage/ohms that is different than what i've seen so far.
(https://s30.postimg.org/hrfo4bdwh/IMG_0844.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/mq36iuhp9/)
Point is, like Electro Detective mentioned that I paid as much for this meter than their USA made ones from like 2 years ago and even if they choose to make it in China I should expect the same top quality and service.
Because of their lack of quality control I need to ship it back to Germany which costs me extra money and hoping the next unit will be ok.
Is it easy for you to open it and see inside ?
Is it a Fluke inside ?
If its ok from you without damaging it and you want please proceed.
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Yeh, open it up and take some photos so we can compare .. ? ;D
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Like Dave says . Take it apart.
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Fluke did update the series 80 product approvals i.e. 61010 Cat. III over the years. The original 87 (Rev. 5 1989) I see had none really.
Did those measurement categories even exist at that time?
IEC standard 61010 was first published in 1990.
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:-/O Take it apart!
(https://s23.postimg.org/61n26rt93/IMG_0846.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/61n26rt93/)
(https://s23.postimg.org/b1kiepyvr/IMG_0847.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/b1kiepyvr/)
(https://s23.postimg.org/88rauoyjb/IMG_0848.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/88rauoyjb/)
(https://s23.postimg.org/enqbrd593/IMG_0849.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/enqbrd593/)
(https://s23.postimg.org/w2ajzn2dz/IMG_0850.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/w2ajzn2dz/)
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The quality control and construction may appear to be excellent on some MIC meters, but what about the quality control and sourcing of the internal parts?
You really think Fluke is going to allow the factory to send an intern down to the Shenzhen market on alternate Tuesdays to see what parts they can find to put inside? :palm:
(maybe we'll get those cheap fuses today...nobody will notice, right?)
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(https://s23.postimg.org/kyvj7s6hn/IMG_0847.jpg)
The internals look OK but it's weird that that plastic around the input jacks is grey. Usually it's red.
(also there's a dirty black mark on it)
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The resistor on the left is from a different manufacturer.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SeVWgtFAosY/TjT9knK3f2I/AAAAAAAAGUs/1ZgLIZ2mX-g/s800/Fluke%25252087%252520V%252520rev%2525209%252520and%25252011%252520higher%252520res1.jpg)
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The resistor on the left is from a different manufacturer.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SeVWgtFAosY/TjT9knK3f2I/AAAAAAAAGUs/1ZgLIZ2mX-g/s800/Fluke%25252087%252520V%252520rev%2525209%252520and%25252011%252520higher%252520res1.jpg)
The rectangular white thing on the right has the serial number printed in a different place.
The PSBs in those two are completely different. In the one on the left you can easily see the traces.
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The resistor on the left is from a different manufacturer.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SeVWgtFAosY/TjT9knK3f2I/AAAAAAAAGUs/1ZgLIZ2mX-g/s800/Fluke%25252087%252520V%252520rev%2525209%252520and%25252011%252520higher%252520res1.jpg)
Yeah you got those brown carbon type resistors, also underneath the fuse.
Also the diode looks different.
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What is the built month/year ?
firmware version ?
and the board version ? latest is 13 ?
all for the above two meters.
thanks
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(https://s23.postimg.org/kyvj7s6hn/IMG_0847.jpg)
The internals look OK but it's weird that that plastic around the input jacks is grey. Usually it's red.
(also there's a dirty black mark on it)
Looks like an olive or mushroom stain, :-//
eating pizza or special flied lice on the job during 'lunch break' at the Tu Hung Lo assembly line ?
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(https://s23.postimg.org/kyvj7s6hn/IMG_0847.jpg)
The internals look OK but it's weird that that plastic around the input jacks is grey. Usually it's red.
(also there's a dirty black mark on it)
Looks like an olive or mushroom stain, :-//
eating pizza or special flied lice on the job during 'lunch break' at the Tu Hung Lo assembly line ?
or eating fish and chips while barely surviving on centrelink payments ? ::) ::)
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They have Centrerink over there too? :clap:
;D
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They have Centrerink over there too? :clap:
;D
It's counterfeit
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Looks like an olive or mushroom stain, :-//
So... made in the USA then? The Chinese workers certainly won't be eating Pizza.
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I don't have any pics of the inside of my 87Vs but my Bussman fuses(Newer labels?) look like Wytnucls' fuses. I also have red plastic on the jack holder. Both have "Made in USA" on the holster. One has "Made in USA" and the other has "Made in USA of U.S. and non U.S. parts" on the back cover.
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Maybe the grey plastic is a quick visual check for the Fluke police to know the country of origin.
eg. There may be a cheaper "China-only" version of the meter that some grey importers are exporting them to the rest of the world.
If that's the case then I'm sure Fluke would like to know where you got this from. I'd email Fluke and show them a picture.
Either way:
a) It doesn't change the fact that this is just bad luck and you should get a replacement.
b) The only difference will be OEM price. There's no way Fluke would compromise their flagship meter by making an inferior version of it. If it were different inside they'd put a different model number on the front.
eg. The Fluke 15B/17B were originally "China-only"models but turned out to be perfectly good meters. 100% Fluke, just not officially sold in the USA.
(has this situation changed? Fluke now lists them (http://www.fluke.com/fluke/inen/digital-multimeters/general-purpose-multimeters/fluke-17b+.htm?pid=78682) on their main web site as well as Fluke Asia).
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It is all a matter of trust!
Fluke built its reputation based on excellent products being manufactured in USA and sold through reliable sources; Nowadays, all this has changed and we have to deal with situation where we don't know if their products that are being made in other locations are still good and if the sources from where we purchase Fluke equipment, are whether reliable or a fake product.
Carlos
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It is all a matter of trust!
Fluke built its reputation based on excellent products being manufactured in USA and sold through reliable sources; Nowadays, all this has changed and we have to deal with situation where we don't know if their products that are being made in other locations are still good and if the sources from where we purchase Fluke equipment, are whether reliable or a fake product.
You know they still put "Made in USA" on the USA made ones, right?
Meanwhile, the non-Xenophobes get a discount price on the exact same meter.
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It is all a matter of trust!
Fluke built its reputation based on excellent products being manufactured in USA and sold through reliable sources; Nowadays, all this has changed and we have to deal with situation where we don't know if their products that are being made in other locations are still good and if the sources from where we purchase Fluke equipment, are whether reliable or a fake product.
You know they still put "Made in USA" on the USA made ones, right?
Meanwhile, the non-Xenophobes get a discount price on the exact same meter.
Most of the people buy online these days; how do I know for sure that I'll receive one that is made in USA?
Carlos
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It is all a matter of trust!
Fluke built its reputation based on excellent products being manufactured in USA and sold through reliable sources; Nowadays, all this has changed and we have to deal with situation where we don't know if their products that are being made in other locations are still good and if the sources from where we purchase Fluke equipment, are whether reliable or a fake product.
You know they still put "Made in USA" on the USA made ones, right?
Meanwhile, the non-Xenophobes get a discount price on the exact same meter.
Most of the people buy online these days; how do I know for sure that I'll receive one that is made in USA?
Carlos
Because they mentioned it on their website you would expect this to be for every 87v multimeter.
"Designed and built in the U.S.A."
http://en-us.fluke.com/products/digital-multimeters/fluke-87v-digital-multimeter.html#overview (http://en-us.fluke.com/products/digital-multimeters/fluke-87v-digital-multimeter.html#overview)
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Most of the people buy online these days; how do I know for sure that I'll receive one that is made in USA?
The same way you do everything else in life - you communicate.
Ask, "Can you confirm this is made in USA? I'm only interested in buying a USA-built meter".
You go with the seller that answers promptly and gives a good vibe.
Pay with a method that allows reclaim, reclaim if it arrives and isn't USA-built. Let seller pay return shipping if he wants it back.
(Second: Admit to yourself that you're buying a luxury item that's going to last a long time. A good seller is making a special effort on your behalf so they deserve the extra $20 over the rock-bottom seller. Everybody wins in the long-term).
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It is all a matter of trust!
Fluke built its reputation based on excellent products being manufactured in USA and sold through reliable sources; Nowadays, all this has changed and we have to deal with situation where we don't know if their products that are being made in other locations are still good and if the sources from where we purchase Fluke equipment, are whether reliable or a fake product.
You know they still put "Made in USA" on the USA made ones, right?
Meanwhile, the non-Xenophobes get a discount price on the exact same meter.
China also puts "Made in USA" "Made in Japan" etc. on a lot of things... it's hard to tell these days if a product is genuine...
Just look at some counterfeit Hakko stations as an example...
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'TRUST' left the building a few years ago, and never returned
Taken by aliens is one theory :scared:
devoured by psychopath neanderthal investors is another >:D
OP should get a refund and get a real deal MADE IN USA labelled Fluke 87V that's actually MADE IN USA (aka North America?)
not some offshore place called 'USA' for the duration of a production run
OP has work to get on with,
and better things to do than tolerate getting flukked around by a once reputable company
that's grabbed the cash,
hoping no one will notice the half baked product. :palm: :palm:
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Fair enough, so then is it possible Fluke themselves are behind the shoddy 'save a buck, yellow meter addicts will still buy it' 87V ::)
-MADE IN BEST GUESS COUNTRY- :-//
that isn't even switched on for a basic function check at the end of the assembly line... :--
OP Osirison should send them the labour bill for time wasted doing it for them ! :clap:
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OP should get a refund and get a real deal MADE IN USA labelled Fluke 87V that's actually MADE IN USA (aka North America?)
not some offshore place called 'USA' for the duration of a production run
OP has work to get on with,
and better things to do than tolerate getting flukked around by a once reputable company
that's grabbed the cash,
hoping no one will notice the half baked product. :palm: :palm:
Haters gonna hate (and this one's not even American!)
Are you sure all the parts inside the "Made in USA" meter were made in the USA? Did they make the PCB and chipset in the USA? How about the resistors and safety-MOVs? Were they made in the USA? :popcorn:
(...and where was your PC & Phone made? Did you demand they were made in the USA, too?)
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LOL, you're MISSING the point somehow :-//
My PC, phone, and toilet seat are made in some overseas factory, assembly line or back burbs sweat shoppe,
that I am fully aware of and accept (aka take it or leave it),
but at least they have enough integrity and pride (remember that stuff?) to not FALSELY stamp their wares as -MADE IN USA-
and charge -MADE IN USA- prices on top, regardless of whether the components were made, be it China, Mexico, or Mars.
I'm a long time fan of certain Fluke products :-+
but I won't be deceived by any company's BS when they drift south as they have done in OPs case
"Haters gonna hate (and this one's not even American!)"
Hater of BS and product deception? GUILTY as **** ! Aussie Style :clap:
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but at least they have enough integrity and pride (remember that stuff?) to not FALSELY stamp their wares as -MADE IN USA-
Aaaaand ... who's doing that, exactly?
The meter in question in this thread is clearly not stamped "Made in USA".
(https://s11.postimg.org/c941m52n7/IMG_0839.jpg)
Compare with:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/NCIAAOSwwpdW7Y1L/s-l1600.jpg)
Hater of BS and product deception? GUILTY as **** ! Aussie Style :clap:
Deception? :palm:
It actually says "Made in USA of US and non US parts" on the back. Show me another manufacturer who even does that.
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I don't see "Made in USA of US and non US parts" on the back of OPs meter
who paid TOP DOLLAR for a half assed meter no one checked at the finishing line to confirm ALL functions WORKING
before shipping it out from WHO REALLY KNOWS WHERE :-//
If that's not deception, then there must be a new word for it not in the dictionary yet
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Oh my god. Everyone is flipping their lid here, but do we have anything even distantly approaching proof that Fluke is now manufacturing the 87V in China? All I can see here is a declaration of origin on a reseller invoice, but given how often resellers make egregious mistakes in their metadata, I hardly take this as gospel!
Given that Fluke is still advertising the 87V as designed and manufactured in USA, and thus opening them up to massive liability if that were untrue, I'm tending to think that something less sinister is going on here.
In any case, we shouldn't be inventing rumors and then treating them as undisputed fact.
How about the OP contact Fluke with their serial number and ask??
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I don't see "Made in USA of US and non US parts" on the back of OPs meter
Ummm... that's what's been observed, yes. Well done.
who paid TOP DOLLAR for a half assed meter no one checked at the finishing line to confirm ALL functions WORKING
Who received a faulty meter (which happens occasionally no matter what the quality control...)
before shipping it out from WHO REALLY KNOWS WHERE
Not you, that's for sure.
In any case, we shouldn't be inventing rumors and then treating them as undisputed fact.
How about the OP contact Fluke with their serial number and ask??
Oh, look! Somebody with a brain!!
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Oh my god. Everyone is flipping their lid here, but do we have anything even distantly approaching proof that Fluke is now manufacturing the 87V in China? All I can see here is a declaration of origin on a reseller invoice, but given how often resellers make egregious mistakes in their metadata, I hardly take this as gospel!
Given that Fluke is still advertising the 87V as designed and manufactured in USA, and thus opening them up to massive liability if that were untrue, I'm tending to think that something less sinister is going on here.
In any case, we shouldn't be inventing rumors and then treating them as undisputed fact.
How about the OP contact Fluke with their serial number and ask??
Who is going to sue Fluke if they have been Flukking around anyway?
They will buy out the plaintiffs legal firm with small change in their HQ piggy bank, before the plaintiffs parents and uncles sell their houses too,
to finance their 'case' at a kangaroo court... located thousands of miles away from Australia :-[
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Which part of "Fluke is a reputation-driven company" are you failing to understand?
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Which part of "Fluke is a reputation-driven company" are you failing to understand?
Unfortunately their north american customer service leaves quite a bit to be desired. Last time I called for some zebra strips the gal had no clue what to look up. Time before that it took three calls to get a part ordered.
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Mine which dates from 2015 (but I've only just bought) has "Made in USA" on the bumper but not on the instrument itself. Does this mean it is made in China?
It is a bit disingenuous because it has Fluke USA on it but doesn't actually say it is made in the USA. See attached photos.
[EDIT]
Looking at the cardboard box it came in, it says country of origin US and that it is made in the US with imported parts, what ever that means. See added photos.
My 87V was purchased and manufactured in February 2015, as the E2 kit.
My unit is just like the one above: doesn't say Made in USA on the meter, but does on the bumper. The box printing itself says "Printed in the USA. Assembled in the USA." and the label says "COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: US" just like the one above.
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Which part of "Fluke is a reputation-driven company" are you failing to understand?
Everything. He's gone off the rails.
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Which part of "Fluke is a reputation-driven company" are you failing to understand?
Everything. He's gone off the rails.
Like that Ozzy Osbourne song? lol
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Which part of "Fluke is a reputation-driven company" are you failing to understand?
I believe the OP has the exclusive right to answer that
he's the one currently getting a sample of how a "reputation-driven company" operates in 2017,
not 1987
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Has anyone contacted Fluke yet?
It should still have the COO on the box.
Maybe the grey plastic is a quick visual check for the Fluke police to know the country of origin.
eg. There may be a cheaper "China-only" version of the meter that some grey importers are exporting them to the rest of the world.
If that's the case then I'm sure Fluke would like to know where you got this from. I'd email Fluke and show them a picture.
Either way:
a) It doesn't change the fact that this is just bad luck and you should get a replacement.
b) The only difference will be OEM price. There's no way Fluke would compromise their flagship meter by making an inferior version of it. If it were different inside they'd put a different model number on the front.
eg. The Fluke 15B/17B were originally "China-only"models but turned out to be perfectly good meters. 100% Fluke, just not officially sold in the USA.
(has this situation changed? Fluke now lists them (http://www.fluke.com/fluke/inen/digital-multimeters/general-purpose-multimeters/fluke-17b+.htm?pid=78682) on their main web site as well as Fluke Asia).
I noticed that Fluke's instagram account "regramed" a 17b+ ...not sure if that means much, probably a mass com major running the account but you'd think someone would tell them to pull it if they were still pretending it didn't exist.
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Cost Improvement (CI) project:
Reviewing the BOM, putting in lower cost components.
Reviewing the enclosure, finding cheaper injection molding vendors.
Reviewing the manufacturing, finding cheaper plants.
I see all three of these done on OP's (defective) meter.
Gone are the blue Vishay precision resistors, the carbon-comp input resistor, the high-quality solder mask PCB, change to elcheapo DB104 bridge rectifier etc.
Moving the plastics fab, i.e. someone else is making it- the text silkscreen is skinny, the input jack frame and oops we changed from red to gray due to a mistake.
It all indicates a change to another vendor, loss of quality control, cheapening of the product.
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"reputation-driven company" doing all that to scrape an extra buck? ::)
Previous comments above insist NO WAY !!! :bullshit: perish the thought :phew:
Cost Improvement (CI) project:
Reviewing the BOM, putting in lower cost components.
Reviewing the enclosure, finding cheaper injection molding vendors.
Reviewing the manufacturing, finding cheaper plants.
I see all three of these done on OP's (defective) meter.
Gone are the blue Vishay precision resistors, the carbon-comp input resistor, the high-quality solder mask PCB, change to elcheapo DB104 bridge rectifier etc.
Moving the plastics fab, i.e. someone else is making it- the text silkscreen is skinny, the input jack frame and oops we changed from red to gray due to a mistake.
It all indicates a change to another vendor, loss of quality control, cheapening of the product.
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And all the people involved in those activities were outsourced because the meters were not negative in cost to manufacturing.
The dieselgate is happening in every company. Don't worry your brand new Fluke AI learning selfaware? 290 DMM will kill most of the human race. So it won't matter anymore.
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As already mentioned, it's all about the bottom line, and how far they can push it to maximize profits. If the quality keeps dropping, it'll ultimately affect their reputation. But it's the same everywhere, greed of the big companies. Profits before people, nothing new here...
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"Pursuing profit (and screwing up other people) is human nature"
Pursuing profit (and screwing up other people) is NEANDERTHAL nature, not human.
---------------------------
"If you don't have the power to change things, then shut up and change yourself"
I don't have the power to change things without MUTUAL CONSUMER SUPPORT.
Shutting up and changing myself isn't going to get anyone any power to change things.
----------------------------
Why back them anyway? do you expect to be rewarded for keeping their leaky boat from rocking?
If a customer gets shafted with an overpriced product from a once reputable company going south ever so gradually,
are you obligated by them also to accept and thank them for not doing worse?
Please.... :palm: :palm:
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many so-called humans act worse than Neanderthals...
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Cost Improvement (CI) project:
Reviewing the BOM, putting in lower cost components.
Reviewing the enclosure, finding cheaper injection molding vendors.
Reviewing the manufacturing, finding cheaper plants.
It all indicates a change to another vendor, loss of quality control, cheapening of the product.
Which revision was this one ?, I suspect all of them, anyway I will be sure to avoid these at all cost. :-- :-BROKE :(
Not that it matters really but I've recently decided that any new meters we purchase are to be Keysight purely based on their great service and support, not to mention the added features as well. :-+ :-DMM :)
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I looked and Fluke (multimeters) has at least four different plants, but could not confirm countries...
Then I stumbled onto the old news, Danaher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danaher_Corporation) bought Fluke for $625 million in 2003.
Danaher bought Tektronix $2.8 billion in 2007. Danaher bought Keithley $340 million in 2010. Danaher bought Amprobe in 2006.
So they are owned by a mega conglomerate and we all know that profit is king.
Let us consider Danaher's stock performance, 10 year graph below.
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The same graph inverted may be the next 10 year shoppers performance if they keep up the -MADE IN UFO- with local and imported Uni-T parts,
and assembled with pride at the Flook Tu Hung Lo factory
Fluke are no longer the only game in town,
unless their bosses buy up all the other players soon
or have they already? :-//
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Then I stumbled onto the old news, Danaher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danaher_Corporation) bought Fluke for $625 million in 2003.
Interesting.
So they are owned by a mega conglomerate and we all know that profit is king.
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The box of my fluke 87V say
"Made in us, with imported parts"
On the multimeter there isn' t printend "Made in usa"
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Pursuing profit (and screwing up other people) is human nature. As long as there is no competitor that can surpass Fluke's overall reputation and quality as well as functions, they can lower their quality to wherever they want and raise the price to wherever they want.
FYI, I think (hope??) that you've simply confused "screwing over" with "screwing up", which mean quite different things.
To screw someone: to have sex with them
To screw someone over: to cheat the person (as in a business transaction)
To screw someone for [an item or amount]: to cheat the person out of the item or amount
To screw someone up: to mess with the person to the point of causing lasting psychological damage
Now, assuming you mean "screwing over is human nature" - well, it varies wildly by culture, and by individual. It most certainly is not universal human nature.
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Osirison, what does the box of your meter say as Country of Origin? It's on the label with the date of manufacture.
Everyone else, crikey, one whisper of a rumor of a change and you've gone off the rails. Chill out, seriously.
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The box of my fluke 87V say
"Made in us, with imported parts"
On the multimeter there isn' t printend "Made in usa"
Date of manufacture? Country of Origin? (Both printed on the white label on the box.)
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Nov 2016
Contry of origin : US
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So the box was folded together in the US in 2016 ?
:clap:
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AHAHAH probably
But on the case of the multimeter is printed
'Made in USA"
I think the have only chanched the print location
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The Fluke 87V is still a great go to meter,
but there is NO JUSTIFICATION or LAME EXCUSES good enough to cover the obvious signs they are going CHEAP on it :palm:
and charging FULL PRICE :--
OP should demand a REFUND because more than likely the replacement will be a WORKING cheapie
i.e. OP has not got what he paid for, and a lot LESS
This is not the JOHN FLUKE POLICY or business model created, read up on it!
I bet the gent is rolling in his grave looking down at the mess going on |O
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That meter is way too expensive in Europe for nasty surprises, regardless of where it's made (couldn't care less). At a price of 469 eur at reichelt and a mind boggling 580 eur at my local official fluke partner :palm: Gossen is even more expensive and judging by Joe's videos not infallible, not great spec wise either. Return it and buy a bm869s + bm257s and go for a nice dinner with the rest or buy a nice probe set.
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Fortunatly my fluke is assembled in the usa and all the compoments are controlled, but in the future..who knows
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I have payed my fluke 550€
And here the gossen pro costs the same price
But, I am happy with my choice, for me, the 87V is the best every day use multimeter! For a bench multimeter I prefer the 289, but is another segment, and for a avery day use is unconfortable, personally, I am going to buy another 87V
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So the box was folded together in the US in 2016 ?
:clap:
What the heck is your damage, you freak? Like, have you been waiting for years for justification to say "Muahahahah, look at evil modern Fluke"? You realize we have zero evidence of any of the stuff you're flipping your lid over?? And that your rants full of CAPITALS makes you look like a crazy person?
If the label (the one with the serial number and date of manufacture) says "Country of Origin: US" then it is.
And no, you can't put "Made in USA" on the box and later explain "yeah, this box was made in USA, we didn't say anything about the contents".
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FYI, I think (hope??) that you've simply confused "screwing over" with "screwing up", which mean quite different things.
To screw someone: to have sex with them
To screw someone over: to cheat the person (as in a business transaction)
To screw someone for [an item or amount]: to cheat the person out of the item or amount
To screw someone up: to mess with the person to the point of causing lasting psychological damage
Now, assuming you mean "screwing over is human nature" - well, it varies wildly by culture, and by individual. It most certainly is not universal human nature.
I guess I meant "to screw over". And that's definitely what big companies do, and to certain degree, to screw up (to make a mess -- wikitionary.com).
Okay. :)
"To screw up" means to make a mistake, "to screw something up" means to make a mess of that thing, and "to screw someone up" means what I said above. Nobody said English was simple! :p
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The truth nailed too hard for you? sorry for the butt hurt :-[
So the box was folded together in the US in 2016 ?
:clap:
What the heck is your damage, you freak? Like, have you been waiting for years for justification to say "Muahahahah, look at evil modern Fluke"? You realize we have zero evidence of any of the stuff you're flipping your lid over?? And that your rants full of CAPITALS makes you look like a crazy person?
If the label (the one with the serial number and date of manufacture) says "Country of Origin: US" then it is.
And no, you can't put "Made in USA" on the box and later explain "yeah, this box was made in USA, we didn't say anything about the contents".
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Which part of "Fluke is a reputation-driven company" are you failing to understand?
The business world is littered with the corpses of companies that were "reputation driven". Bethlehem Steel, South Bend Lathe (went out of business, the name was bought by Grizzly after SBL closed its doors), Bridgeport Machines, Myford Machines, etc. Not saying, hoping or predicting that Fluke will lower the quality of their products, ruin their reputation in anyway or become a corporate corpse, but it has happened to too many reputable manufacturers over the years that it would be unwise to completely rule it out or to potentially ignore the early signs of an erosion in quality. Not saying that Fluke's quality is getting worse, as mentioned by others, every producer of a massed produced product (and the 87V is massed produced) will have some defective products come off the assembly line. Its the nature of the beast, and can't be helped. The better companies have it happen rarely.
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I think the big problem these days is the manufacturers don't want their products lasting forever, if it lasts 2, 3, 5 years it's better for them, they sell more.
A lot of them now are more interested in showing how much profit they've gained at the end of their financial year, produce as much as possible as cheap as possible.
Look at 70% of mass produced products from the late 70's till mid 90's, a lot of it is still going strong today.
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The truth nailed too hard for you? sorry for the butt hurt :-[
No, you troll. It's that you are pretending that some unsubstantiated allegations are proven truth.
You have no idea what the truth is.
I am not butthurt, I don't really care whether they're made in USA or China, really. But I do care about honesty, both on the part of manufacturers, and on the part of critics. You are failing hard at being a credible critic, as you aren't exercising even the tiniest amount of critical thinking.
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But WE DO CARE whether they are made in USA or China :-+
OP 'cares' even more because they got his cash
and he's got a dud meter that costs professional money,
with UNKNOWN actual manufacture origins
Chill and get with the program :=\
The truth nailed too hard for you? sorry for the butt hurt :-[
No, you troll. It's that you are pretending that some unsubstantiated allegations are proven truth.
You have no idea what the truth is.
I am not butthurt, I don't really care whether they're made in USA or China, really. But I do care about honesty, both on the part of manufacturers, and on the part of critics. You are failing hard at being a credible critic, as you aren't exercising even the tiniest amount of critical thinking.
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You reckon no US made Fluke product has ever been dead on arrival, or had a fault become apparent in the first day or two of ownership.
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Yes, of course that happens but you send it back and get another US made replacement that you paid top dollar for
The concern here afaict:
is OP getting a US one or paying top dollar and getting a cost cutting model that MAY have a higher failure rate than a 'reputation driven company' actual US made 87V
A lot of people just don't seem to get it,
and think it's ok to get partially shafted on an important purchase :-\
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For all you know, the Chinese ones may have a lower failure rate than the US made ones. No-one except Fluke knows. You're just talking complete rubbish.
Why would an American factory be any better at assembling such a device? What on earth makes you think that the quality control is any different at all? Apple, for example, seem to manage just fine with their devices which are vastly more complex and need several orders of magnitude more precision to assemble than a multimeter.
In this instance, the original poster can send his meter back, get another Chinese one, and it will almost certainly give years of good service. The amount of rhetoric being spouted on this thread over the minor inconvenience of a DoA meter is breathtaking.
I couldn't care less where my meter is manufactured as long as it is done correctly and to the exact specifications intended by the designer.
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The amount of rhetoric being spouted on this thread over the minor inconvenience of a DoA meter is breathtaking.
Yep. One (one) dead meter doesn't mean the sky is falling.
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Why is nobody questioning the "fact" that it's a Chinese made meter? We have zero proof that this is the case! Literally, the only source for that claim is the Reichelt invoice. The OP hasn't even told us what country of origin is written on the box!!
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But WE DO CARE whether they are made in USA or China :-+
OP 'cares' even more because they got his cash
and he's got a dud meter that costs professional money,
with UNKNOWN actual manufacture origins
Chill and get with the program :=\
How is it unknown? The OP hasn't even looked at the box!! The lack of a place of manufacture on the item itself does not mean "Made in China."
If you say "but anyone can print whatever they want on the box or item", then you literally cannot trust the place of manufacture of any product whatsoever, unless you personally visited the factory yourself. Have fun with that.
My gripe, as I have maintained throughout, is that you guys are taking it as fact that it's from China, while having literally zero evidence to support this.
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"Connecting Washington and China: The Story of The Washington State China Relations Council":
John M. Fluke, Jr.
"In the years I served as volunteer head of the Washington State China Relations Council, the People's Republic of China had taken center stage with the Puget Sound media. Countless conferences were organized around China—from dozens of sister-city relationships to how-to seminars on doing business there—China was our future...."
"Fluke Corporation can attribute a great deal of credit to the WSCRC for facilitating the opportunity to build lasting relations with many Chinese friends that, in turn, yielded 5% of the company's world-wide business by 1986..."
"Today, Danaher Corporation, Fluke Corporation's parent, employs 4,000 people in China and does over half a billion dollars in sales there..."
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Direct from Fluke:
"Hello Eric,
The Fluke-87-5 is manufactured here in Everett, WA USA.
Jim N.
Application Engineer"
Safe to say you guys are in an uproar over nothing. Now whether the meter in question is legit might be another question to ask.
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Can anybody explain why the plastic on the input jack is grey instead of red?
(is it a grey import? :popcorn: )
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Unfortunately their north american customer service leaves quite a bit to be desired. Last time I called for some zebra strips the gal had no clue what to look up. Time before that it took three calls to get a part ordered.
If you don't have the part number ask to be transfered to an application specialist. They will provided you with the part number which the service desk needs.
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I am not butthurt, I don't really care whether they're made in USA or China, really. But I do care about honesty, both on the part of manufacturers, and on the part of critics.
The only real issue is if you have paid for a localized product and got a grey import as that can effect your warranty.
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There appears to be SNEAKY 'under the table' business going on,
and customers need to know what they are getting and where it's coming from when they pay top dollar for a Fluke meter
that apparently is sort of ~MadE iN uSa~... :-//
If they are making them in China I want to know so I can consider other meter options
Don't any Americans gas about this stuff? Cat got your tongue? :popcorn:
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Can anybody explain why the plastic on the input jack is grey instead of red?
(is it a grey import? :popcorn: )
I am pretty sure that Fluke states somewhere in its manual that "Fluke reserves the right to modify the product specifications without prior warning and with no warranties expressed or implied blah, blah, blah... " :popcorn:
On the upside, if they improved the product and just did a subtle change to differentiate it, even better. We can start calling it "87V, the grey" and enjoy its particularities.
-
There appears to be SNEAKY 'under the table' business going on,
and customers need to know what they are getting and where it's coming from when they pay top dollar for a Fluke meter
that apparently is sort of ~MadE iN uSa~... :-//
If they are making them in China I want to know so I can consider other meter options
Don't any Americans gas about this stuff? Cat got your tongue? :popcorn:
Did you miss my post?
-
Can anybody explain why the plastic on the input jack is grey instead of red?
(is it a grey import? :popcorn: )
Ran out of ink, or changed Flukes market policy.
-
There appears to be SNEAKY 'under the table' business going on,
and customers need to know what they are getting and where it's coming from when they pay top dollar for a Fluke meter
that apparently is sort of ~MadE iN uSa~... :-//
If they are making them in China I want to know so I can consider other meter options
Don't any Americans gas about this stuff? Cat got your tongue? :popcorn:
Did you miss my post?
Direct from Fluke:
"Hello Eric,
The Fluke-87-5 is manufactured here in Everett, WA USA.
Jim N.
Application Engineer"
I saw the post, and you believed him?!! :o What did you expect him to say? "ermmm, yes and um no, well actually..."
His JOB is on the line, he'll tell you what you want to hear, and apologize if caught out :phew:
Are ALL of the 87-5s 'manufactured' there, or SOME are sometimes outsourced if the meter making machine breaks
or runs out of yellow rubber and red dye?
Which REVISION of the Fluke 87-5 were you asking about?
Obviously not OPs one, LOL
Please ;D
-
Can anybody explain why the plastic on the input jack is grey instead of red?
(is it a grey import? :popcorn: )
Ran out of ink, or changed Flukes market policy.
:clap: :-DD :-+
-
There appears to be SNEAKY 'under the table' business going on,
and customers need to know what they are getting and where it's coming from when they pay top dollar for a Fluke meter
that apparently is sort of ~MadE iN uSa~... :-//
If they are making them in China I want to know so I can consider other meter options
Don't any Americans gas about this stuff? Cat got your tongue? :popcorn:
Did you miss my post?
Direct from Fluke:
"Hello Eric,
The Fluke-87-5 is manufactured here in Everett, WA USA.
Jim N.
Application Engineer"
I saw the post, and you believed him?!! :o What did you expect him to say? "ermmm, yes and um no, well actually..."
His JOB is on the line, he'll tell you what you want to hear, and apologize if caught out :phew:
Are ALL of the 87-5s 'manufactured' there, or SOME are sometimes outsourced if the meter making machine breaks
or runs out of yellow rubber and red dye?
Which REVISION of the Fluke 87-5 were you asking about?
Obviously not OPs one, LOL
Please ;D
Time to change your tinfoil hat dude.
-
Unfortunately their north american customer service leaves quite a bit to be desired. Last time I called for some zebra strips the gal had no clue what to look up. Time before that it took three calls to get a part ordered.
If you don't have the part number ask to be transfered to an application specialist. They will provided you with the part number which the service desk needs.
As I understand it Fluke will sell parts if you have the part number but will not look up the part number for you.
-
There appears to be SNEAKY 'under the table' business going on,
and customers need to know what they are getting and where it's coming from when they pay top dollar for a Fluke meter
that apparently is sort of ~MadE iN uSa~... :-//
If they are making them in China I want to know so I can consider other meter options
Don't any Americans gas about this stuff? Cat got your tongue? :popcorn:
Did you miss my post?
Direct from Fluke:
"Hello Eric,
The Fluke-87-5 is manufactured here in Everett, WA USA.
Jim N.
Application Engineer"
I saw the post, and you believed him?!! :o What did you expect him to say? "ermmm, yes and um no, well actually..."
His JOB is on the line, he'll tell you what you want to hear, and apologize if caught out :phew:
Are ALL of the 87-5s 'manufactured' there, or SOME are sometimes outsourced if the meter making machine breaks
or runs out of yellow rubber and red dye?
Which REVISION of the Fluke 87-5 were you asking about?
Obviously not OPs one, LOL
Please ;D
Time to change your tinfoil hat dude.
Tinfoil hat? LOL let's not get started on the GSM interference fiasco too |O with Fluke going CHEAP not putting enough shielding at the back and sides of the boards :palm:
One look inside an 87-1 gives that game away, it has full shielding, not some flimsy ventilated thin pos metal in current 87Vs that better serves as a quick check makeup mirror for the lady techs :-* rather than shielding the meter's electronics. :--
We can only -GUESS- where that GSM susceptable lot were made, much less where the current lot might be :-//
-
Unfortunately their north american customer service leaves quite a bit to be desired. Last time I called for some zebra strips the gal had no clue what to look up. Time before that it took three calls to get a part ordered.
If you don't have the part number ask to be transfered to an application specialist. They will provided you with the part number which the service desk needs.
As I understand it Fluke will sell parts if you have the part number but will not look up the part number for you.
Same deal here, arrogant slackers :--
and if you do eventually ferret a part number for them to look up on their S L O W computer, from a helpful EEVblog member or friendly Youtuber, :-+
the price is DOUBLE (or same price as buying a new meter) for annoying them with your 'support enquiry' and friendly suckers patient phone courtesy
i.e. what?!! you don't know the part number?! Leave us alone, WE ARE BUSY, go buy a new meter ! >:(
-
Both the Fluke AU and US sites declare that this particular product is designed and built in the USA, any further speculation on the matter is nothing more than pissing into the wind so give it a rest, it would be suicide for a company to bullshit about such a claim so they simply wouldn't.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-87v-(2017)-lacking-quality-control/?action=dlattach;attach=324050;image)
-
Tired 10 year old advertising doesn't cut it here, especially in OPs case :--
-
Unfortunately their north american customer service leaves quite a bit to be desired. Last time I called for some zebra strips the gal had no clue what to look up. Time before that it took three calls to get a part ordered.
If you don't have the part number ask to be transfered to an application specialist. They will provided you with the part number which the service desk needs.
As I understand it Fluke will sell parts if you have the part number but will not look up the part number for you.
Yup. I just actually had to order a transformer replacement for one of my 8845As and they gave me a link to the calibration manual which has all the replaceable parts in a table. So once I found the part number I was able to order a replacement. It was surprisingly affordable too.
$31 for the transformer which has tons of taps on it.
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Yup. I just actually had to order a transformer replacement for one of my 8845As and they gave me a link to the calibration manual which has all the replaceable parts in a table. So once I found the part number I was able to order a replacement. It was surprisingly affordable too.
$31 for the transformer which has tons of taps on it.
Damn those Pesky Facts.
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Yup. I just actually had to order a transformer replacement for one of my 8845As and they gave me a link to the calibration manual which has all the replaceable parts in a table. So once I found the part number I was able to order a replacement. It was surprisingly affordable too.
$31 for the transformer which has tons of taps on it.
Damn those Pesky Facts.
Obviously old school Fluke staff, not yet shown the door to make way for overseas call center scab labor
Why not surf through EEVblog for more great Fluke service experiences?
Dealers/partners and Fluke staff don't count, just straight up customers
from EVERYWHERE on Earth, not a one horse town in the US
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Can someone find out what drugs Electro Detective is on? I think I need to get in on that shit, my life seems way too boring.
-
Can someone find out what drugs Electro Detective is on? I think I need to get in on that shit, my life seems way too boring.
You'd prefer more xenophobia and conspiracy theories in your life?
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Can someone find out what drugs Electro Detective is on? I think I need to get in on that shit, my life seems way too boring.
You'd prefer more xenophobia and conspiracy theories in your life?
It would add excitement, don't you think? It's so boring being level-headed and not bigoted. Where's some kids in the front yard to yell at to get off the lawn? ;)
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I have a Fluke 87-1 and an 87-V, VERY HAPPY WITH BOTH, the readings are always on the money :-+ easy on the batteries and no GSM BS
Both MADE IN USA not 'China-USA' because it's embedded in the plastic housing.
and -IF- I decide to buy another one, I DEMAND disclosure from Fluke WHERE it's actually MADE
If it's Made In China, and the quality is as good as the 114, 115, 116, 117 series, I may consider to buy a sweat shoppe 87V
At HALF the price with LIFETIME warranty,
and that's being generous on my part :clap:
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Can someone find out what drugs Electro Detective is on? I think I need to get in on that shit, my life seems way too boring.
You'd prefer more xenophobia and conspiracy theories in your life?
Please point out examples of these xenophobia and conspiracy theories he doesn't need any more of :popcorn:
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I have a Fluke 87-1 and an 87-V, VERY HAPPY WITH BOTH, the readings are always on the money :-+ easy on the batteries and no GSM BS
Both MADE IN USA not 'China-USA' because it's embedded in the plastic housing.
and -IF- I decide to buy another one, I DEMAND disclosure from Fluke WHERE it's actually MADE
You mean like .... stamping it in the plastic on the back of the meter? Would that be enough for you?
-
and in writing, fine print no problem, I read that s*** :-+
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and in writing, fine print no problem, I read that s*** :-+
I suggest you personally travel to your local Fluke dealer next time you need a new meter. I'm sure they'll be happy to provide peace of mind in exchange for your money.
Leave all the maybe, maybe-not bullshit to the suckers who try to save money by buying online. I'm sure you'll be laughing at them a few years from now.
-
If this matter does not get resolved at this post, they won't see a cent from me ever again.
I'll take my chances with meters proudly stamped -MADE IN PRC- and deal with their support direct via email :-+
-
At this point I don't care where they're made, since everything these days contains globally sourced components. It's a potpourri. LOL
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At this point I don't care where they're made, since everything these days contains globally sourced components. It's a potpourri. LOL
That's fine and I agree
if people are stupid enough to allow the handball of their industries and jobs by shifty middlemen to another willing and able 'how low can you go?' nation,
no problem :-+
But I won't pay full dollar for the same 20+ years old model product made MUCH cheaper elsewhere,
when there are many suitable equivalents MUCH cheaper,
most likely made in the same place as overpriced 'reputation-driven' ((:bullshit:)) device
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The really laughable part is that somebody might think that being soldered together in the USA would make a difference in quality, that such a meter is literally worth TWICE AS MUCH as the others.
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The really laughable part is that somebody might think that being soldered together in the USA would make a difference in quality, that such a meter is literally worth TWICE AS MUCH as the others.
The difference it makes is lower quality thanks to the careless union workers... LOL
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My experience with Fluke is detailed at the following link.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-service/msg658077/#msg658077 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-service/msg658077/#msg658077)
I even told the Fluke rep when I called that I was not the original owner of the 177.
Fluke personnel have given me great service and have always been professional.
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The really laughable part is that somebody might think that being soldered together in the USA would make a difference in quality, that such a meter is literally worth TWICE AS MUCH as the others.
The difference it makes is lower quality thanks to the careless union workers... LOL
Yeah, damn those union-card-waving pick-and-place machines! Damn them to hell!!
(and the solder ovens too!)
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hey now... no personal attacks... ;)
is that what it is? :-//
I thought it was obvious they are trying desperately to steer the issue away of where OPs current version dud 87V is manufactured,
misleading labeling -MADE IN ??? -
questionable assembly line final testing
and of course the HIGH price for the privilege of purchasing such a disappointing 'reputation-driven' company's product :clap:
Thanks for the heads up ;)
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I emailed Fluke directly with a link to this thread and had it confirmed that the meters are made here in the U.S. in Washington state. The troll responded by basically calling the Fluke employee a liar. Not much else to say.
-
If OP Osirison decides to get a replacement -MADE IN MAYBE USA- Fluke 87V badged meter, (rather than take the money and source a real Fluke) it would be appreciated if the gentleman would 'take it apart' CAREFULLY, and shoot off detailed photos.
I will cordially ask our forum host EE (and Fluke owner) Mr. Dave Jones if he has time to take a good look and share with us his observations
If he says it's made here, there, anywhere, or any other relevant comment, that's good enough :-+ for this wary suspicious Fluke customer.
Till then ladies and gentlemen, I will persist humbly following this post till resolved for OP, :clap:
and will not be labelled or baited by a minority of bored members...perhaps with no work on the bench? :-[
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This topic has been unlocked because there might be some important information from Fluke to share.
-
I'd emailed and phoned Fluke Corp. to get an explanation of why OP's multimeter was different.
Fluke Technical Support identified a safety concern with the input jack plastic being changed, as this part is an insulator affecting 61010 certification.
They did not know why OP's meter is a different colour.
Next I got forwarded to two Product Specialists and their response was:
"The switch from red to grey was a vendor issue. The plastic piece would still need to comply to the safety regulations that we require with our meters.
This was the determination to change the plastic."
-
WTF is a "vendor issue"?
-
FYI, the sweep it under the carpet gang attitude from a handful of members here did OP Osirison NO FAVOURS !
The 'thread closed' disappointed gentleman (to say the least) apparently has dumped the Flook/Fluke? back to it's source and rolled with another competing high end meter instead,
and won't be thinking about Flukes on his bench any time soon, especially after this beeping fiasco! :--
Now we won't know what's going on till the next member rolls up in doubt and can supply pictures etc :-//
I want to know what the deal is with the current 87V is BEFORE I consider buying another,
or recommending it to others :-DMM and risk copping an earful (and a toolbox chucked my way) if it's a full priced half assed offshore knockup. :palm:
Thanks Dave for re-opening the thread :-+
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WTF is a "vendor issue"?
Total BS. It is 100% Fluke's problem for allowing major parts not meeting specifications into their finished product.
Even if the only difference is the colour, the legal lengths Fluke goes to protect their famous yellow are well documented.
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I am disappointed with the response I got. Perhaps the troll can do better.
For a mature flagship product, it sounds like an arbitrary change or mistake.
I don't see a Product Change Notice, all the literature/videos show red plastic.
Fluke is ISO 9001 accredited and a decent quality system catches non-conformance.
The only time I've seen things go awry is when manufacturing or a "vendor" is moved off-shore.
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Dude, you are the troll E_D, he was referring to you. You are extremely offensive no less. No one in the entire thread tried to sweep anything under the carpet, nor do I understand how you can possibly arrive at that conclusion. Parts get substituted all the time in production environments - we aren't talking radiation blocking materials here. It's a plastic insulator that got switched to a different color material, and you act like that means it must have been produced in China. If it meets spec who gives a crap what color it is.
Regarding the fact that the OP got a defective meter, of course he should be refunded or have the meter replaced. Its not like this doesn't ever happen with any other products in the world...you are going off the deep end for no sensible reason.
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WTF is a "vendor issue"?
He's back playing the 'concerned' good guy now :-DD
:palm:
a) I think you'll find it was me who pointed out the grey plastic in the first place.
b) Nothing so far has suggested the meter is inferior in any way (or that "USA-built" meters are better).
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WTF is a "vendor issue"?
He's back playing the 'concerned' good guy now :-DD
:palm:
a) I think you'll find it was me who pointed out the grey plastic in the first place.
b) Nothing so far has suggested the meter is inferior in any way (or that "USA-built" meters are better).
a. The grey terminal was pointed out by the OP in post 24.
b. Fluke stated that it is not an authorized part for their meter and that it compromises the CAT rating.
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Thanks Dave for re-opening the thread :-+
The reason it was closed is because of you. Do not post in this thread again, you are just being antagonistic.
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a) I think you'll find it was me who pointed out the grey plastic in the first place.
b) Nothing so far has suggested the meter is inferior in any way (or that "USA-built" meters are better).
a. The grey terminal was pointed out by the OP in post 24.
b. Fluke stated that it is not an authorized part for their meter and that it compromises the CAT rating.
As I understand it, the first Fluke response was concern that the color was different because the part in question plays a major role in the safety (CAT) rating of the meter - at which point they referred the matter to the "product specialists" who looked into the matter and found that the plastic color was different because the vendor who supplied the parts apparently couldn't source the red material in a timely fashion. They further clarified that the material substitution could only have happened if the part still met spec for resistance etc. I don't believe that the part could possibly have made it into the meter otherwise.
Regarding the "Made in U.S.A." or elsewhere: the cost difference doesn't come from quality differences, it comes from the fact that U.S. labor cost is almost always an order of magnitude or more higher than the newly developed nations where most cheap labor is done these days. Higher cost to manufacture = higher sales price. It has nothing to do with people thinking that U.S. made meters should command a higher price because they're better made.
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As I understand it, the first Fluke response was concern that the color was different because the part in question plays a major role in the safety (CAT) rating of the meter - at which point they referred the matter to the "product specialists" who looked into the matter and found that the plastic color was different because the vendor who supplied the parts apparently couldn't source the red material in a timely fashion.
If it was a postage stamp or a bank note it would be a collectors item, worth 10x more than the ordinary ones. :popcorn:
It has nothing to do with people thinking that U.S. made meters should command a higher price because they're better made.
You must be new to this thread.
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Regarding the "Made in U.S.A." or elsewhere: the cost difference doesn't come from quality differences, it comes from the fact that U.S. labor cost is almost always an order of magnitude or more higher than the newly developed nations where most cheap labor is done these days. Higher cost to manufacture = higher sales price. It has nothing to do with people thinking that U.S. made meters should command a higher price because they're better made.
And of course the additional fact that many unscrupulous manufactures not only outsource to China in order to get cheaper labor costs. They also skimp on quality on purpose to lower the costs intentionally. You can manufacture top quality stuff in China. It just takes more work and suddenly it's not so cheap!
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Can anybody explain why the plastic on the input jack is grey instead of red?
(is it a grey import? :popcorn: )
I got the same "Grey Socket Edition", and I ordered my Fluke 87-V from Tequipment.net, which is an authorized Fluke distributor. I don't think they sell fake or counterfeit products.
My stats are:
FW = 3.03
Board = Rev 013
Grey Socket Edition
MFG: Apr2017
SN: 3856XXXX
I checked my Fluke 87-V against my Fluke 289, and most of the readings are spot on.
The new Fluke 87-V agrees with my old Fluke 289, but they both differ a bit from my
new Hioki DT4212, which I just got too. Since I'm planning to get the Hioki DT4282 also,
I'll do a comparison sometime in the future when I have all 4 meters to see the differences
between them. I needed a minimum of 4 meters for my hobby lab to do some experiments
in thermoelectric circuits, 2 to measure hot and cold junction temperatures, and 1 to measure
the current, and 1 to measure voltage drop across elements, all simultaneously, so I planned
these 4 meters would be make up my initial lab gear.
Now my Fluke 87-V doesn't say "Made In USA" on the back of the unit itself, but I interpret that to mean it is not a completely manufactured US product. The Box clearly says Made in the US with Imported parts. The US doesn't have the manufacturing infrastructure to make these meters. They must import the internals to make them.
These Fluke meters are simply "assembled" in the USA, which is just the final procedure in the manufacturing process. However, this is an important step, that enables the manufacturer to establish the essential "quality control" over what goes into the final product, and testing that final product before shipping out. So, my guess is that all the internals are "Chinese parts", or maybe "Taiwan" parts, or somewhere over there in the region of the Four Tigers.
Long ago, wherever that final step of assembly was done, that's where the "Made in Country" appeared. But, over time, corporations got more conscious about what part of the work was done where. A lot of national pride goes into these things. So, today, corporations have lots of ways to distinguish where the contributions come from. We have "Designed in Nation1", "Made in Nation2", or "Designed in Nation1", "Assembled in Nation2", etc..I have some lamps from IKEA that says "Designed in Sweden" and "Made In China." The Chinese make everything. Because they are good at it, and labor there is cheap. They make all sorts of quality, from the best to the worst. So, someone has to "pick" the parts out of the soup of Chinese Made things, and put the best of those parts into the final assembled product. That's basically what the Fluke US does. They "pick" and "assemble", and because they are conscious of where those parts come from, they don't put "Made In USA" on the meter, because it isn't entirely true. Instead, they indicate who owns the "patents" for the design, of this multi-country manufactured unit.
With regard to the "Grey Socket", the first thing I thought when I got my Fluke 87-V was that this was the "last generation" of the revisions of this meter that Fluke would produce. Even before I opened the unit to check, I guessed that the circuit board would say Revision 13, because that's the numerologist code for "death" or "the end". The Grey socket is some Fluke design engineer's fancy way of flagging this as the last generation of the 87-V, like a man getting his "grey hairs" signaling his old age had come, this famous 87-V meter had run the course of it's natural life, had approached maturity, and it's time for a change. I would not be surprised at all, if this "guess" of mine turns out to be correct.
Of course, this would be a big secret. Fluke wouldn't tell anyone about this. They'd just do it, and then announce a couple years from now, the brand new redesigned better and improved FLUKE 87-VI.
So, let's wait and see.
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Can anybody explain why the plastic on the input jack is grey instead of red?
(is it a grey import? :popcorn: )
I got the same "Grey Socket Edition", and I ordered my Fluke 87-V from Tequipment.net, which is an authorized Fluke distributor. I don't think they sell fake or counterfeit products.
Grey imports (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_market#Description) aren't fake/counterfeit products.
Of course, this would be a big secret. Fluke wouldn't tell anyone about this. They'd just do it, and then announce a couple years from now, the brand new redesigned better and improved FLUKE 87-VI.
So, let's wait and see.
Why wouldn't they just, ummmm, announce it? Why would they put a grey socket for a while first? Inside joke? :popcorn:
nb. I'm not buying the "we didn't have any red plastic left that day" excuse. There's something going on, some internal screw-up they're not admitting to.
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Why wouldn't they just, ummmm, announce it? Why would they put a grey socket for a while first? Inside joke? :popcorn:
nb. I'm not buying the "we didn't have any red plastic left that day" excuse. There's something going on, some internal screw-up they're not admitting to.
Look, they can't announce it, because people would stop buying the 87-V and wait for the 87-VI. Then the re-sellers and dealers would get mad, that Fluke "leaked" the info about the coming newest and greatest, causing them to hold onto their inventory. So, all manufacturing companies have to keep a tight lid on the upcoming products, to protect the sales of current models.
Then, they made this last 87-V a bit "special", by introducing the "Grey Socket", so that after the 87-VI is introduced, this last version of the 87-V will still sell well, because then people will then "realize" that it's the final totally "debugged" version of the last great meter Fluke ever made. It becomes easily recognizable by the "Grey Socket". It becomes an instant "collectors item". A rare model, that becomes almost impossible to find. When production stops, and the 87-VI with its own new product "bugs" starts flooding the market, the old 87-V being held in stock at the re-sellers and dealers will still sell well, because many people will want this last version of the "good run."
It's pure marketing.
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I can tell that Fungus hasn't ever worked in volume manufacturing. Materials become unavailable ALL the time. Vendors go out of business, get delayed, etc. A batch of material could become contaminated and be designated as faulty, which means it has to go in the trash, etc. Shit happens...Murphy and all that.
It's not at all inconceivable that the change was on purpose, but who knows. I know in my business I sure as hell wouldn't announce new product until a lot of the old model can be cleared out.
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Fluke has worked hard to gain their reputation for quality/reliable meters, it's how they justify their prices.
Are they really going to start making junk in China and throw all that hard work away?
Nope.
If they're manufacturing in China you can bet they'll use the exact same machinery/plastics/processes that they use in the USA.
So did HP and they did go through the bottom in one time frame. :-\
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Yes it can be extremely difficult to keep up good QC in China, et al. Without a good manager it's virtually impossible.
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If we're saying Fluke moved some of their 87-V manufacturing off-shore, then I question the "Made in USA" injection-molded text on the rear cover.
Made in the USA (https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard#qualified) claim is a standard regulated by the FTC
I could see the PCB's being populated in china and final assembly/calibration done in USA. Enclosure plastics are made someplace that doesn't know the difference between red and gray.
But "...a "screwdriver" assembly in the U.S. of foreign components into a final product at the end of the manufacturing process doesn’t usually qualify for the "Assembled in USA" claim."
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They don't say Made in USA on the rear case. Only the protective bumper says that, which is a separate part from the meter itself.
Do you really, truly think Fluke would open itself up to the liability of lying about place of manufacture? You know damned well that their lawyers are gonna use precisely the most positive sounding wording that the law allows for their situation, but no more.
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Literally had Fluke say that it was still made in the USA. Literally had another user with the grey plug say that his box said "Made in the USA" yet people are STILL assuming it's being made in China. |O
We know the components are global...that's not a surprise or anything new.
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We know the components are global...that's not a surprise or anything new.
Except, that word "global"...isn't quite correct. No parts are made in Africa, nor Australia, nor Europe, nor South America, and I'm sure none are made in Canada, maybe Mexico makes somethings, I'm not sure, Japan is too expensive to make parts today, no parts are made in any of the Caribbean Islands, and Russia doesn't make anything either, so as we explore this "global" idea, we discover, in the end, that word "global" probably means just "China." Fluke may as well have written "Made in the US of Chinese Parts". Maybe South Korea makes some capacitors. I hardly think India makes any parts. Maybe Indonesia or Malaysia assembled the pcb from the Chinese parts, and the US put the pcb into the case to finish the final product inside the U.S.of.A.
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I guess that the people that work at electronics factories in USA and Europe are just sitting around doing nothing, then?
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Value of the leading 15 integrated circuits and electronic components exporters worldwide in 2014, by country (in billion U.S. dollars)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-87v-(2017)-lacking-quality-control/?action=dlattach;attach=327444;image)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/236845/value-of-the-leading-global-electronic-components-exporters-by-country/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/236845/value-of-the-leading-global-electronic-components-exporters-by-country/)
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Value of the leading 15 integrated circuits and electronic components exporters worldwide in 2014, by country (in billion U.S. dollars)
Does that tell you where stuff is manufactured?
eg. TI is a US company that makes a lot of chips but where are TI chips made?
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Value of the leading 15 integrated circuits and electronic components exporters worldwide in 2014, by country (in billion U.S. dollars)
Does that tell you where stuff is manufactured?
eg. TI is a US company that makes a lot of chips but where are TI chips made?
There are lots of steps and process technologies with varying degrees of complexity and, sometimes, legislation that prevents them to be exported (ITAR, for example). Therefore some of these companies manufacture the more advanced devices in non-restricted countries (US, Puerto Rico, Germany, France, etc) and ship the passivated/finished wafers to Malaysia, Taiwan, etc for packaging, marking, etc.
With this in mind, I don't know exactly how the numbers on the spreadsheet are obtained, but I am pretty sure it is after the product is finished (as the part marking contains the COO).
Therefore your product "assembled in USA with parts from other countries" may be more diverse than what the eyes can see.
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https://www.statista.com/statistics/236845/value-of-the-leading-global-electronic-components-exporters-by-country/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/236845/value-of-the-leading-global-electronic-components-exporters-by-country/)
Among them, only Taiwan, Japan and Korea actually make a lot of chips (I mean dice), China and Singapore make some, but most of the jobs are packaging, and HK and the rest of Asian countries do mostly packaging and make almost no dice.
So that's only the political figure of country of exporting, doesn't really mean country of actually making of the chip.
Hong Kong is a financial center. There is no such electronic industry or factories to packaging chips. Hong Kong is just doing the import and export trading electronic components business only.
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Seen today in the local shop.
In my opinion inner parts of the A and mA terminal is sligtly too much off centered. Is it normal?
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Seen today in the local shop.
In my opinion inner parts of the A and mA terminal is sligtly too much off centered. Is it normal?
Ask if you can check whether it says "Made in USA" on the back.
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Seen today in the local shop.
In my opinion inner parts of the A and mA terminal is sligtly too much off centered. Is it normal?
Ask if you can check whether it says "Made in USA" on the back.
I can, but I'm not sure when I'll get there again.
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Something is off about that font as well. doesn't look genuine tbh.
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FYI, Fluke isn't the only one that makes multimeters in the USA
https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/discontinued-products/electricians-hvac-trms-multimeter (https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/discontinued-products/electricians-hvac-trms-multimeter)
https://www.kleintools.com/content/american-manufacturing (https://www.kleintools.com/content/american-manufacturing)
UPDATE: I just notice that they are both discontinued products?
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Seen today in the local shop.
In my opinion inner parts of the A and mA terminal is sligtly too much off centered. Is it normal?
Ask if you can check whether it says "Made in USA" on the back.
It won't unless it's been sitting in the window for years. They stopped writing Made in USA on the meter at minimum in early 2015, probably earlier. The yellow holster does say it, though.
That said, what good is this question? The boxes still say made in USA. The website says made in USA. The email from customer service says made in USA. What exactly do you expect to learn??!??
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Something is off about that font as well. doesn't look genuine tbh.
It looks like they use the font from terminals which on the right DMM here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-87v-87-5-87-v-gsm-interference-fluke-says-firmware-flash-fixes-it/?action=dlattach;attach=67015;image (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-87v-87-5-87-v-gsm-interference-fluke-says-firmware-flash-fixes-it/?action=dlattach;attach=67015;image)
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FYI, Fluke isn't the only one that makes multimeters in the USA
https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/discontinued-products/electricians-hvac-trms-multimeter (https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/discontinued-products/electricians-hvac-trms-multimeter)
https://www.kleintools.com/content/american-manufacturing (https://www.kleintools.com/content/american-manufacturing)
UPDATE: I just notice that they are both discontinued products?
Reading the text on the second link shows how people here in the US have been concerned with jobs and manufacturing for quite some time.
For Klein, it is somewhat easier for them to get a lot of manufacturing in the US, given they sell a wide variety of gear and not only electronic equipment.
The MM6000 shows as discontinued on the link, but not on their catalog (https://www.kleintools.com/catalog/test-measurement/multimeters). Funny.
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Ask if you can check whether it says "Made in USA" on the back.
That said, what good is this question? The boxes still say made in USA. The website says made in USA. The email from customer service says made in USA. What exactly do you expect to learn??!??
I'm just hoping there's a meter in the world that says "Made in USA" on the back and has wonky input jacks. >:D
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Seen today in the local shop.
In my opinion inner parts of the A and mA terminal is sligtly too much off centered. Is it normal?
Ask if you can check whether it says "Made in USA" on the back.
It won't unless it's been sitting in the window for years. They stopped writing Made in USA on the meter at minimum in early 2015, probably earlier. The yellow holster does say it, though.
That said, what good is this question? The boxes still say made in USA. The website says made in USA. The email from customer service says made in USA. What exactly do you expect to learn??!??
Seriously, some people on this forum will say and do anything to try to discredit Fluke's reliability. Anti-Fluke trolls gotta troll I guess.
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Yup, it's absolutely pathetic.
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Yup, it's absolutely pathetic.
My FLuke 289, bought back in 2012, has the following marking on the back:
FLUKE CORPORATION
MADE IN USA
OF U.S. AND NON U.S. PARTS
www.fluke.com (http://www.fluke.com)
But, my Fluke 87-V, bought this year in 2017, has no mention of "Made in USA"
on the back of the meter itself. Hmmm...why doesn't Fluke mark all their meters
the same way?
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But, my Fluke 87-V, bought this year in 2017, has no mention of "Made in USA"
on the back of the meter itself. Hmmm...why doesn't Fluke mark all their meters
the same way?
Xenophobia.
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But, my Fluke 87-V, bought this year in 2017, has no mention of "Made in USA"
on the back of the meter itself. Hmmm...why doesn't Fluke mark all their meters
the same way?
Xenophobia.
But, we love to buy things that say "Made In Japan", even when we're in the west.
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It's not that China can't make good products - it can, as companies like Apple demonstrate. But whereas made in China says absolutely nothing about quality, since they span the whole range from top quality to absolute garbage, made in Japan, USA, Germany, Switzerland, etc tells you that the chances of it being high quality are quite high, without going so far as to call it a guarantee, simply because in those countries it's not with it to manufacture junk.
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It's not that China can't make good products - it can, as companies like Apple demonstrate.
Yes, I have an IBM Thinkpad, made by Lenovo in China, top quality computer.
simply because in those countries it's not with it to manufacture junk.
Japan manufactures junk too. BUT...sometime ago the Government got involved and prohibited the export of junk to the rest of the world. So, if a Japanese company wants to export something, they need permission. Only the best quality products are exported. The junk is only allowed to be sold locally. Typically, new "Made in Japan" products are "tested" in the local market first, for some time before being allowed to export.
China also has something like this, but it doesn't work there. When you buy things from China, if you follow the "tracking" in detail, you'll see that all products pass through "export control" centers. But all they seem to do is "delay" the exports. One Chinese exporter said to me that "export control" does turn back some items, but I have never seen this in my dealings, all the junk has come through and delivered to my doorstep. Considering that Chinese sellers don't include "batteries" in their products, it may be that the "export control" centers look for specific things like batteries and prevent the export only certain things, which has nothing to do with quality. Apart from these few things, "export control" returns to sender, the Chinese merchants can export just about anything they want.
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It's not that China can't make good products - it can, as companies like Apple demonstrate. But whereas made in China says absolutely nothing about quality, since they span the whole range from top quality to absolute garbage, made in Japan, USA, Germany, Switzerland, etc tells you that the chances of it being high quality are quite high, without going so far as to call it a guarantee, simply because in those countries it's not with it to manufacture junk.
Just buy more expensive ones. Don't expect made in China can bring down material cost. The money you can save is the labor cost (which is not much lower than Malaysia or similar Asian countries) and design cost (but again, most people making clones don't deliver good quality).
Which brings to the conclusion:
1. Buy only mature technology (that the Chinese clone is so mature that it can easily reach the original technology's level) made by a bigger company (with reputation and other virtual equity that they don't want to throw down the drain).
2. Buy made in China by a big international company (Fluke, Apple, etc.).
3. Buy those Chinese designs that are sponsored by government (such as telecom gears and laser gears -- Chinese government pays for quite a portion of R&D of domestic high tech, so you end up paying less with good quality).
Don't expect your $2 incl. shipping LM2596 modules from China to be of any decent quality -- it's simply impossible. The same for many other seemingly impossibly cheap deals. In China we call this IQ tax -- stupid, greedy and naive people get scammed, they pay for their stupidity.
In the periphery countries in Latin America (I know well Brazil and Argentina and friends report similar things in Peru, Paraguay and Chile) and perhaps Africa, what you see on the streets that is "Made in China" is the absolute bottom of the barrel (or perhaps it is what has fallen from the barrel) in terms of quality - I couldn't yet see that level of low quality in a store here in the US.
A few years ago, however, there was also a heap of absolute garbage consumer products with a stamp that had the deutscher adler (eagle) and the inscription "German Export" - they were actually made in Germany but were preying on the folks that believed that everything from Germany was high quality...
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so does it mean my new fluke 179 is made in USA? |O
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I know this topic is a little old, but I thought I'd add the details of my new 87V for future reference.
Purchased new, 436GBP (inc VAT), Jan 2018 in the UK from CPC (division of Farnell/Element14).
DMM itself is not marked with any Made In etc moulded in the grey plastic.
DMM has light grey outer ring on V/Ohm/Diode jack, red inner. Other jacks are dark grey outer rings, red inners/black inner on COM.
Holster say "Assembled in USA".
Box itself is 11/2013 revision, states "Printed in USA. Made in the US with Imported Parts."
Manufacturers self-adhesive label says: FLUKE-87-5/EUR, Mfg Date Jun2017, Country of Origin: United States
Farnell's stock label says their part number is IN04389, Manf Part No: FLUKE 87-V/EUR, COO: US
I registered this DMM on Fluke's site. It didn't complain about the serial number at all. But also I didn't get a confirmation email either so their registration checks might be a little lightweight...
Kevin
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Seen today in the local shop.
In my opinion inner parts of the A and mA terminal is sligtly too much off centered. Is it normal?
Ask if you can check whether it says "Made in USA" on the back.
I checked that meter a couple of weeks ago. It's still there.
It has a latter markings on the back, without a "made in" statement.