Author Topic: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.  (Read 6215 times)

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Offline xavier60

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2020, 10:01:24 pm »
Old school Fluke 77 has Diode test beeps. Now I always expect it.
Was very disappointing to find that my Fluke 18B+ doesn't do Diode test beeps.

Edit: Not certain that the 77 should be referred to as "old school".
Vintage, maybe.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 11:00:48 pm by xavier60 »
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Offline james_s

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2020, 10:36:05 pm »
That is my biggest complaint about the 87-III, actually the only complaint that I can think of. They brought back that feature in the V but messed up the current modes. Since I have a Fluke bench meter that has the diode test beep I manage ok, why they ever decided to omit that feature is beyond me.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2020, 10:39:22 pm »
Quote
While Brymen refuse to add Diode test beeps

Hm...Didn´t miss that.
My eyes are always on the display when measure something.

You've never used a meter with that feature have you? Or you don't do much repair work? It's a HUGE time saver when you have a board in front of you and are looking for a shorted semiconductor. Unless you can look in two directions at once I don't see how you can have your eyes on the meter while also watching where you're poking the probes and if you're trying to test 30 or 40 parts it requires looking down, up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, up, it's SO much easier to just listen for the short beep for a good junction or steady beep for a short.
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2020, 10:59:37 pm »
Quote
You've never used a meter with that feature have you? Or you don't do much repair work?

No, I´m just working in a testfield with service and repair for over 17 years.. 8)

Quote
it's SO much easier to just listen for the short beep for a good junction or steady beep for a short.

Of course it is.
But normally diodes and transistors are on a pcb, which lying on the table/in front of me in a case, so I don´t have to look/move around.
Further:
Junction beep "tells" you that somehow there is a junction, but you don´t know the breakdown value when you´re not look at it.
Same with "short" : Most multimeters beeps under a specific resistance value, NOT by short ("0 ohm").
Don´t trust your ears only...

Offline KungFuJosh

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2020, 11:02:03 pm »
I've been using the Amprobe 37XR-A for the past 9 years, and it's been great. It's the only meter I've found that tests everything I need it to... of course I have a bunch of other meters anyway, but that's the main one.
"I installed a skylight in my apartment yesterday... The people who live above me are furious." - Steven Wright
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2020, 02:18:53 am »
Of course it is.
But normally diodes and transistors are on a pcb, which lying on the table/in front of me in a case, so I don´t have to look/move around.
Further:
Junction beep "tells" you that somehow there is a junction, but you don´t know the breakdown value when you´re not look at it.
Same with "short" : Most multimeters beeps under a specific resistance value, NOT by short ("0 ohm").
Don´t trust your ears only...

It provides a quick go/no-go indication, when testing a bunch of similar components I often find one that is shorted very quickly and then zero in on that area and do more detailed testing. For example output transistors in a stereo amplifier, beep beep beep beep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep, shorted transistor located in about 5 seconds without ever lifting my eyes off the board. Reading then confirmed by glancing at the display. I don't trust my ears only, but it is an invaluable time saver for the initial pass. I used an older Fluke (29?) for about 20 years before I got my 87 and I immediately missed the diode beep, and still miss it. I have used it very successfully for many years.
 

Offline xavier60

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2020, 04:51:22 am »
This discussion reminds of  the Wall Eyed Wally scene from Paradise PD, funny!
https://64.media.tumblr.com/2860168b5f35303ad82fbbed5eeae243/e8322ea9f57e8b21-b5/s1280x1920/f155a4ed1878ad0dd79e8eb2546b07e8219d4145.png
"I'm doing both mom"
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 09:07:59 am by xavier60 »
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2020, 09:47:34 am »
Without that diode function it is also beep beep.... :-DD

Except when you hear beep, it is dead short (not really actually, so you have to look to the screen anyways), if you hear short beep it is capacitor discharging.
With diodes, I like to know if it is schottky or not, (or germanium in the old days, or SiC maybe?)
Diode with capacitor will beep in both directions.. But show different settled value. And my preference is for non latched continuity, because it will beep differently in different directions..

Lot of troubleshooting I do on plugged in device (if it doesn't smoke, that is), and try to isolate bad part functionally, not by testing components in bulk.. So  I end up with "it's somewhere here", and then, most of the time you pull the critical parts out to test them in isolation, because other components make proper testing hard.

Don't get me wrong, if it is helpful to the way you work, that's great. But Martin and me ( and I would guess many others across the world) that developed their techniques around different available instruments and different environment (there is a difference in engineering approach between US, EU, Japan...) got used to something else and don't find it so important. That is normal.
 
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Offline xavier60

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2020, 09:50:05 pm »
Another useful aspect to the Diode test on the 87V is that it outputs 1mA CC.
So for example if a reading of close to 0.100V is seen, it is very likely that a 100Ω resistor is across the junction.

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Offline Martin72

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2020, 10:00:02 pm »
I like the 87V too, we got....20...25pcs from it, it´s our "standard" precise multimeter, fitting in nearly every situation.
Except today, as I must measure a 40khz sinewave(testsignal for a transformer).
But we got some 187 also, so I took one of them, their bandwith are higher (fluke 87: 20khz).
The 179, we got 6pcs from - Advantage are the 1000V capability and with 1000hz bandwith, it measures 400hz systems accourate.
In private I wouldn´t buy it, for it´s money you can get proper brymen multis.

 
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Offline xavier60

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2020, 10:52:08 pm »
When changing to another brand/model, it's not always possible to anticipate the missing features.
For me it was the missing Diode beeps.
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2020, 11:06:17 pm »
Well...
Everyone has his personal preferences, you need beeps, I don´t.



Offline rvalente

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2020, 11:09:56 pm »
Fluke 87IV, ummmm sexy! I own a 789, nice!



from https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/fluke-87-iv-repair-log/
 

Offline xavier60

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2020, 12:23:54 am »
I'm now really regretting not being aware of the 88V. They are comparably priced to the 87V.
I'll have a crack at getting a used one on ebay.
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2020, 08:53:08 am »
Another useful aspect to the Diode test on the 87V is that it outputs 1mA CC.
So for example if a reading of close to 0.100V is seen, it is very likely that a 100Ω resistor is across the junction.

Well that is not good enough..  :-DD
Metrix 3293 has 10 mA 100 Ohm mode, and low diode (4-5V 1mA) and high diode mode (27V 10mA)

When changing to another brand/model, it's not always possible to anticipate the missing features.
For me it was the missing Diode beeps.

Like I said, that is perfectly OK by me. You should do whatever works best for you. I'm just saying that my experience shown that is not good to get hung up to anything single vendor (or single instrument specific) as fundamental, every day, technique.  You should be perfectly capable to work without it too, just in case, but use it to your advantage when available..
 

Offline xavier60

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2020, 10:25:34 am »
There is a thread on the 88V, https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fluke-88v-vs-87v/
I totally would have overlooked the, * The 88V defaults to manual ranging on the voltage ranges only. 6V for AC and 60V for DC. This can be changed normally or with a power-up option.
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Offline james_s

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2020, 08:05:53 pm »
Like I said, that is perfectly OK by me. You should do whatever works best for you. I'm just saying that my experience shown that is not good to get hung up to anything single vendor (or single instrument specific) as fundamental, every day, technique.  You should be perfectly capable to work without it too, just in case, but use it to your advantage when available..

I am perfectly capable of working without it, and I like the 87-III enough that I've put up with it but I do still sorely miss the feature when I go to repair something with suspect shorted semiconductors. Thankfully I have a bench meter that has the feature so I can use that if I'm at my bench.
 
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Offline J-R

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2020, 05:37:14 am »
The Fluke 87V gets my vote compared to the 179 due to the 19,999 count Hi Res mode.  The 87V I have is about 18 months old and even in Hi Res mode it is impossibly spot on.  In practice this provides an extra valuable digit when dealing with 12V systems, for example.  Another notable 87V feature is the AC low pass filter mode.

The 88V has two severe issues in my opinion: the lower manual voltage range by default and no RMS.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 11:37:25 am by J-R »
 

Online Electro Fan

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2020, 06:02:17 am »
I really like the 179 but I don’t understand what makes it better than the 87V.
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2020, 10:54:36 am »
Another notable 87V feature is the LoZ AC mode.
The 87V does not have LoZ, but instead a low pass filter. The LoZ is the accessory SV225 from Fluke

https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/accessories/adapters/fluke-sv225

I really like the 179 but I don’t understand what makes it better than the 87V.
I personally think the 179 wins in its arrangement of input jacks (the current inputs are completely separated) and the slimmer form factor, which makes one hand operstion a lot easier. It is probably also a lot easier to train a new employee/user due to the reduced set of features, although that may not be very significant..

For personal use, the 179 is expensive when compared to other offers but, in a company or professional environment that is set on Flukes (just like Martin72 mentioned above), the cost savings of the 170 series when compared to the 87V are significant.
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Offline J-R

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2020, 11:38:58 am »
Another notable 87V feature is the LoZ AC mode.
The 87V does not have LoZ, but instead a low pass filter. The LoZ is the accessory SV225 from Fluke
https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/accessories/adapters/fluke-sv225
Oops, fixed.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2020, 12:40:42 pm »
Isn't 88V automotive meter?

If you look at that Tweeter post, funniest thing is complete lack of enthusiasm by users. Since July 9th, altogether 83 people chose to like or retweet...
It's more who cares about that question.....
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2020, 01:25:38 pm »
Isn't 88V automotive meter?

If you look at that Tweeter post, funniest thing is complete lack of enthusiasm by users. Since July 9th, altogether 83 people chose to like or retweet...
It's more who cares about that question.....
At the time I posted, I didn't realize how old the tweet was until I was informed by an email from Kiriakos.
I was hoping that no one else would notice.

 :-DD

Seriously, 25 something years ago, if asked which meters are best I would answer Fluke. In a nanosecond.  As kid 8060A was a dream, 87/3 was fantastic at the time, when I got Scopemeter 97 at work I was jumping around. They were the hot thing. Nobody had anything similar. Today, they are at the same place as 25 years ago. Scopemeters have some better specs, good safety (that is only reason why people buy it, and it's a good one). FLUKE lives of off corporate inertia and support structure, that is what corporations need. Their product are very solid and that's it.
There is no innovation, prices are high (because someone has to pay for support structure). If you are a company that needs paperwork and calibrations and certifications they are the choice. In those environments no change is good news. For the rest of us (small business, hobby) they are equaled or bettered by many, with products that are more innovative, or cheaper or both...
They are going the way of the IBM.  They are not in PC business anymore... They are still in the IT, but very different kind.


 
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Online bdunham7

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2020, 04:17:38 pm »
They are going the way of the IBM.  They are not in PC business anymore... They are still in the IT, but very different kind.

Just because those two companies aren't competing for your business in the cutthroat buttons and lights hobby/semi-pro level market doesn't mean that they've retreated from the sector entirely, just the opposite.  IBM has their own processors, which I believe are the fastest in existence, although they aren't sold at Best Buy and you won't find a reviewer running GeekBench on them to compare them.  Fluke has the most accurate reference DMM ever made, as well as a slew of specialty products.  Both of these companies have very long product cycles and very long product lifetimes.  They don't make products-du-jour with previous iterations forgotten like yesterday's newspaper.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Fluke 87V or the 179 vote on Twitter.
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2020, 04:48:22 pm »
For personal use, the 179 is expensive when compared to other offers but, in a company or professional environment that is set on Flukes (just like Martin72 mentioned above), the cost savings of the 170 series when compared to the 87V are significant.

Yepp, fluke is standard in industrial uses, we got nearly all of our meters from them - And two gossen and one bench model from keysight..

We wanted a "cost-effective" multimeter from fluke for "daily use" and service.
Therefore, the 175/179 was choosen.
Personally, I like the fluke 115/117 more but they don´t have the 1000V...

« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 01:27:05 pm by Martin72 »
 
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