Author Topic: Fluke quality...  (Read 29561 times)

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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2016, 11:01:02 am »
I've never been a fan of Fluke's self tapper approach (one proof in my 179 teardown, although I concede the screws they choose are extremely high quality).

I have repaired a few flukes of my own and found out that, when treated carefully, the self tappers tend to endure quite a good time. The problem, however, is that it leaves margin for error to literally "screw up" things: one heavy handed person here, one missed thread there and not only the thread material starts to give up but I also have seen posts split in half and broken at the base. Of all three, rebuilding the thread is the easiest (I usually use steel wool surrounding the screw threads).

Note that this is may not be the OP's fault: if a post is severely weakened during final assembly, it may plague the rest of the equipment's service life.

The brass inserts mostly help with the most common of the problems: skipping the thread. But I have seen my share of split and broken posts with these inserts.

As to the reasons why this is done? Hey, I guess that is Fluke's feeble shot for a planned obsolescence  :-DD
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 03:28:50 am by rsjsouza »
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Offline ericloewe

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2016, 09:31:33 pm »
It's not really unusual. Metal threaded insert for the frequently-accessed compartment, cheaper self-tapping screws for the rest.

It is, that meter has 3 screws, 1st one for securing the battery compartment uses metal threaded insert, and the other two for the whole back cover is using two mixed types, go figure.  :palm:
Oh, now I see what you mean - I misinterpreted the image.

Yeah, that is stupid. Would love to be a fly on the wall during that design meeting.
 

Offline P90Topic starter

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2016, 02:33:29 am »
Like this? 
WTF?
 

Offline BMack

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2016, 06:31:06 am »
For all the Fluke haters feel free to send me pics and prices for your junk Fluke meters. I have no problem adding to my collection. Every non-Fluke meter I've tried has had issues in giving me an accurate reading in all cases and/or being slow, as a hobbist this is normally acceptable for a professional I'll stick with Fluke. Should be some good deals coming in my PM box since Fluke is such junk.
 
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Offline Shock

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2016, 11:40:13 am »
Got out my new old Fluke 73.

Wiped the screw threads tips into the side of a plain wax candle. I screwed them in and they turned like butter, felt like no resistance until the last turn which was the fastening one.

The amount of wax applied to each screw would be barely enough to fill a single thread. I've done this before of course many times and less is best.
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2016, 06:33:27 pm »
Every non-Fluke meter I've tried has had issues in giving me an accurate reading in all cases and/or being slow

How many non-Fluke meters have you tried?  :bullshit:

Have you tried any Hioki, Yokogawa, Amprobe, Gossen, Brymen or Chauvin Arnoux?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 06:43:26 pm by Lightages »
 
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Offline P90Topic starter

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2016, 10:32:13 pm »
Every non-Fluke meter I've tried has had issues in giving me an accurate reading in all cases and/or being slow

How many non-Fluke meters have you tried?  :bullshit:

Have you tried any Hioki, Yokogawa, Amprobe, Gossen, Brymen or Chauvin Arnoux?

He's tried radio shack and harbor freight...  :-DD
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2016, 10:40:19 pm »
Every non-Fluke meter I've tried has had issues in giving me an accurate reading in all cases and/or being slow
How many non-Fluke meters have you tried?  :bullshit:
He's tried radio shack and harbor freight...  :-DD
Nope. Those Harbour Freight meters are very accurate & fast (manual ranging=>fast even on cheap meters).
 

Offline P90Topic starter

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2016, 10:43:33 pm »
Every non-Fluke meter I've tried has had issues in giving me an accurate reading in all cases and/or being slow
How many non-Fluke meters have you tried?  :bullshit:
He's tried radio shack and harbor freight...  :-DD
Nope. Those Harbour Freight meters are very accurate & fast (manual ranging=>fast even on cheap meters).

Well, at least the screw threads on the harbor freight meters can't be any worse than the flukes...
 

Offline mos6502

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2016, 02:26:13 am »
People need to get it through their skulls that not all plastics are the same. The only reason to use threaded inserts is if cheap, shitty plastics like ABS are used. Glass filled nylon or polycarbonate has a similar tensile strength to brass, so why would you add an insert that's no stronger than the plastic itself? Not to mention that brass inserts are usually very short, like 3-4mm, while the self tapping screw in a Fluke 80 series has at least 20mm of thread length. A brass insert would actually be weaker.

Brass inserts are a crutch so that the manufacturer can get away with using cheap plastics. That's why you only find them on cheap asian crap (like UniT, or Keysight  :-DD).
for(;;);
 
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Offline P90Topic starter

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2016, 03:08:35 am »
People need to get it through their skulls that not all plastics are the same. The only reason to use threaded inserts is if cheap, shitty plastics like ABS are used. Glass filled nylon or polycarbonate has a similar tensile strength to brass, so why would you add an insert that's no stronger than the plastic itself? Not to mention that brass inserts are usually very short, like 3-4mm, while the self tapping screw in a Fluke 80 series has at least 20mm of thread length. A brass insert would actually be weaker.

Brass inserts are a crutch so that the manufacturer can get away with using cheap plastics. That's why you only find them on cheap asian crap (like UniT, or Keysight  :-DD).



If you say so...

%#@?!'/`#%
 

Offline BMack

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2016, 03:38:16 am »
Every non-Fluke meter I've tried has had issues in giving me an accurate reading in all cases and/or being slow

How many non-Fluke meters have you tried?  :bullshit:

Have you tried any Hioki, Yokogawa, Amprobe, Gossen, Brymen or Chauvin Arnoux?

He's tried radio shack and harbor freight...  :-DD

Um no.  :palm:
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2016, 03:43:26 am »
...<snip>.... A brass insert would actually be weaker.

Brass inserts are a crutch so that the manufacturer can get away with using cheap plastics.

Nope, not sure if you're ever saw or used these kind of industrial components like attached below for example, its an industrial switch or other types too that most of them are panel mounted.

The plastic is not cheap ones, and they're designed to sustain soft impact or mild pressure when used/switched on and off all the times with high endurance for years, yet they have to use brass insert and not relying on the plastic body alone using self threaded screws to secure them at the panel.

The brass insert in this example was snugly fit and doesn't come off easily, you will have to yank it out using flat screw driver and will deform part plastic body permanently.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 03:55:18 am by BravoV »
 

Offline Robomeds

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2016, 03:54:50 am »
I'm not sure I agree that brass inserts are just a crutch but I do agree that in some cases they are no stronger than screws into properly designed plastic.  In general there is nothing wrong with the newer Flukes that use a metal insert for the battery door and self tappers to hold the housing together.  This is doubly true in cases where the fuses can be replaced via the battery door.  So there is no reason to bash Fluke for using plastic self tappers in the Fluke 27/28 meters.  I don't like that they were used in the old 87 and the small brick meters (the old 70 and 20 series meters).  However, I don't think any of Fluke's current meters have self tappers on a battery door.  At worst you have to deal with self tappers to replace a fuse.  Not perfect but hardly a big design flaw.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2016, 04:04:58 am »
Every non-Fluke meter I've tried has had issues in giving me an accurate reading in all cases and/or being slow

How many non-Fluke meters have you tried?  :bullshit:

Have you tried any Hioki, Yokogawa, Amprobe, Gossen, Brymen or Chauvin Arnoux?

He's tried radio shack and harbor freight...  :-DD

Um no.  :palm:

Care to elaborate?
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2016, 05:11:39 am »
People need to get it through their skulls that not all plastics are the same. The only reason to use threaded inserts is if cheap, shitty plastics like ABS are used. Glass filled nylon or polycarbonate has a similar tensile strength to brass, so why would you add an insert that's no stronger than the plastic itself? Not to mention that brass inserts are usually very short, like 3-4mm, while the self tapping screw in a Fluke 80 series has at least 20mm of thread length. A brass insert would actually be weaker.

Brass inserts are a crutch so that the manufacturer can get away with using cheap plastics. That's why you only find them on cheap asian crap (like UniT, or Keysight  :-DD).

No.  That's not it at all.  Inserts are *not* required with ABS and ABS is not necessarily a bad plastic.  Inserts *are* required with PC or PC/ABS  blends instead of thread *forming* screws.

And the issue of inserts or thread forming screws being stronger/weaker is a non-comparison.  There are a ton of variables involved.  However, in general, a threaded brass insert will be a more durable fastener for frequent use such as battery access. 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 02:12:28 pm by LabSpokane »
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2016, 12:42:35 pm »
However, I don't think any of Fluke's current meters have self tappers on a battery door.  At worst you have to deal with self tappers to replace a fuse.  Not perfect but hardly a big design flaw.
Check my teardown of the 179 I sent before... It uses self tappers for the battery compartment.
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Offline ZeTeX

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2016, 06:01:20 pm »
There is no reason for the thread to get fucked if you unscrew and screw it correctly. Yes, its a 500$ instrument, It should of have a proper brass \ steel inner thread that can't get fucked, But really its not the end of the world, Just need to contact fluke and see what they have to day.
 

Offline P90Topic starter

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2016, 11:46:10 pm »
There is no reason for the thread to get fucked if you unscrew and screw it correctly. Yes, its a 500$ instrument, It should of have a proper brass \ steel inner thread that can't get fucked, But really its not the end of the world, Just need to contact fluke and see what they have to day.

They have the same shit as yester  day
 

Offline P90Topic starter

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #69 on: November 13, 2016, 01:51:05 am »
And Fluke customer service is crap.
Last time a I called to order some parts, I asked for a total price including shipping, and the lady said they don't know shipping charges until items ship, and they'll charge my credit card accordingly at that time.
Also, she could not determine if the particular parts I needed were sold as a pair or individually. WTF?
Not the first time I've experienced shitty service from Fluke. The warranty policy is BS too, if you read the fine print...
 
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2016, 03:04:49 am »
Most people have had good experience with Fluke for warranty service, that is from the most of the reports here. This has been one of the big selling points for Fluke is that they have a great warranty and take care of people. You seem to be having more problems than most.
 

Offline P90Topic starter

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2016, 04:10:46 am »
Most people have had good experience with Fluke for warranty service, that is from the most of the reports here. This has been one of the big selling points for Fluke is that they have a great warranty and take care of people. You seem to be having more problems than most.

Perhaps they have better service outside of the STATES...   :(
 

Offline Robomeds

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2016, 07:06:07 am »
However, I don't think any of Fluke's current meters have self tappers on a battery door.  At worst you have to deal with self tappers to replace a fuse.  Not perfect but hardly a big design flaw.
Check my teardown of the 179 I sent before... It uses self tappers for the battery compartment.

I should have remembered that one.  I had one.  I think it's the last one.  The 11x family is insert for the battery (self tappers for fuses).  The 87-5 has latches (for lack of a better term).  Not sure about the 287.  The 101 uses a latch system.  I suspect the 177 has screws because it's an old meter based on an even older industrial design (note the similarities between the 17X and the 73-4 meter.
 

Offline Robomeds

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #73 on: November 13, 2016, 07:07:22 am »
Most people have had good experience with Fluke for warranty service, that is from the most of the reports here. This has been one of the big selling points for Fluke is that they have a great warranty and take care of people. You seem to be having more problems than most.

Perhaps they have better service outside of the STATES...   :(
I'm in the states.  They provided me with good service.
 

Offline PA4TIM

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Re: Fluke quality...
« Reply #74 on: November 13, 2016, 08:37:08 am »
Most people have had good experience with Fluke for warranty service, that is from the most of the reports here. This has been one of the big selling points for Fluke is that they have a great warranty and take care of people. You seem to be having more problems than most.

Perhaps they have better service outside of the STATES...   :(

Yeah sure, good luck. Try to order a Fluke spare part. The Dutch department does not even respons most of the times. The only one helpful up to now is Fluke USA. 

About quality. I have a Fluke 720 KV divider. It was not used for over 20 years and stored in a climate controlled room. (at that time the callab was turned into a computer server room but all cal gear stayed there unused until it came to me a few years ago)
http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=2332 lots of cracked plastic, tried to order parts over here but never got a response.

A Fluke 8020, together with a Norma DMM stored in the half open barn from a friend for over 25 years. The 8020 needed a new display because it became black (probably due to low temperature), I replaced it and  it still works great and is still spot on. The Norma had a fungussed leather case but the meter itself worked after I renewed some solder joints. That meter does not use screws. Every part is clicked together and to my surprise all clips are stil intact and not became brittle.

I have a 77-III, found it in the mud about 20 years ago. Used it in my garage over 10 years. The yellow was complete black from oil, about 10 years ago I moved it to my lab, cleaned it and use it still without problems. No screw problems.
My >500 dollar Agilent is only used in my lab. The plastic foam of the probes falls apart, the outside of the meter also, had to replace the common bus because it broke inside the plastic. But it is still spot on and I use it every day for my job (repairing test and calibration gear in a clean lab, never used it automotive)

About plastic softner problems like in the Agilent. The steering wheel of both my old LandRovers became extreme sticky. The body of one of my Nikons idem. Almost all old HP instruments I have or have seen, have a sticky surface if it was "rubberized" (I do not know what they put on there)

I have several old Tektronix plugins for the 500 and 7000 scopes. I the 500 all vernier potmeter connections are split in almost every plugin. On the 7000 knobs break and other plastics to. They were pretty expensive in those days.
I have seen several Flukes with function switch problems where cleaning the black stuff or other tricks did not work. I have seen several broken display clips in 80 series. Several Fluke scopemeters with display problems caused by glass bonding coming loose (also in several G&M secutests, it is often fixable but I do not know for how long). But no bad experience with the screws in Flukes. Funny however that all dead Flukes I have seen that were killed in action had the safety parts still intact. One 123 scopemeter had a dead display and two dead ASICs. It was working fine until it was stored over night in a car while it was far below zero.

But we are talking about gear that is over 20 years old. It is not build for eternity but comes close  ;) Most gear from that age needs some TLC now and then.  I have a collection analog meters and those are even older but some have also cracked cases, worn screwholes, broken plastic etc. I do not know the history of most so no clue what caused the problems. After so many years things can go bad. I have owned cheaper meters over the years but not one survived. If you look at the price per year the Fluke is not so expensive. And most important they stay in cal and can be trust for the primary use: measuring

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