Author Topic: Flukes new meter family  (Read 22064 times)

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Offline ilikepez

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2012, 09:25:22 am »
I find it very interesting that so many posters are interested in the Fluke system over the Agilent system in spite of the fact that there are obvious problems getting things you want like DC voltage or current modules or multi-device graphing, all of which the Agilent system has already, and can also do math functions with them. Hmm. And the prices are very high - the only things you can get for under $100 are the PC adapter and carrying cases. Is the Fluke name really so meaningful that you'd chose their weaker system over the Agilent system that already rocks?

I guess the big difference is each module can take 65,000 readings on its own, and you can connect to ten at once with a computer. Fluke is planning to add new modules with different functions later. The Agilent system is superior for most peoples needs. I'm actually a little bit put off that the modules are so specialized. It would have sold me a lot more on this system if each module could measure ac/dc and then attach to the clamp or temperature accessories with settings like Agilent has for automatic scale conversions. I'm pretty interested in seeing how similar the modules are when Dave gets to crack them open.
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2012, 10:04:39 pm »
I find it very interesting that so many posters are interested in the Fluke system over the Agilent system in spite of the fact that there are obvious problems getting things you want like DC voltage or current modules or multi-device graphing, all of which the Agilent system has already, and can also do math functions with them. Hmm. And the prices are very high - the only things you can get for under $100 are the PC adapter and carrying cases. Is the Fluke name really so meaningful that you'd chose their weaker system over the Agilent system that already rocks?
What kind of real world wireless range are we talking with Agilent compared to the Fluke system? The Fieldpiece meters are spec'ed at 75-100 ft without the use of repeaters. Not super accurate, no realtime graphing and looks battery hungry but they go quite a distance over the  others. Here is a demo of one of the Fieldpiece meters
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2012, 11:39:12 pm »
What kind of real world wireless range are we talking with Agilent compared to the Fluke system? The Fieldpiece meters are spec'ed at 75-100 ft without the use of repeaters. Not super accurate, no realtime graphing and looks battery hungry but they go quite a distance over the  others. Here is a demo of one of the Fieldpiece meters

Agilent currently uses Class 2 Bluetooth, so around 30 feet. Fluke is using Zigbee, but at 2.4 GHz, so they're not going to be seeing any better signal penetration in concrete buildings than what Agilent has and their range will be similar. I don't know what protocol Fieldpiece is using, so I don't know how useful that 100 ft range they advertise is, but I do know that Fieldpiece is a very rare brand among electricians and technicians outside of the HVAC domain here in the US and their products aren't very well known. Fluke, Agilent, Hioki, AEMC, Megger, Ideal and Klein all advertise regularly in trade mags for the electrical industry - Fieldpiece, never.

The main difference between the Agilent and Fluke systems is that Fluke has created a supposedly "user friendly" system but one which isn't very upgradeable by users or very elastic in use or that offers any kind of backwards compatibilities - in general it assumes it's users are just plug and play capable. Agilent's system allows you to make use of your existing gear - some of which already has datalogging built in, it offers regular software updates, offers much more flexibility with what you can connect and monitor, works with your phone or tablet or PC and allows users much greater ability to customize what they do. All in all, I can't imagine wanting to switch systems - it would be a huge step backwards.
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Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2012, 11:57:20 pm »
That would make all the sense in the world if I use a Android a PC and multiple Agilent meters but I have none of those. That would be a big through down for less wireless range on a wireless meter system. I think I have some meter leads that will reach as far as bluetooth.  Sorry if it seems snotty but if your gonna by a wireless meter wireless might as well be its strongest feature.
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2012, 12:39:18 am »
That would make all the sense in the world if I use a Android a PC and multiple Agilent meters but I have none of those. That would be a big through down for less wireless range on a wireless meter system. I think I have some meter leads that will reach as far as bluetooth.  Sorry if it seems snotty but if your gonna by a wireless meter wireless might as well be its strongest feature.

It's not snotty - it's a valid point. Like I said, I don't know the Fieldpiece system and no one around here carries it, so I can't even check it out, but I would have to know that their specs are accurate and not just marketing. I know the Agilent modules can reach close to 50 feet  in the right conditions, but they also fail at three feet if there happens to be a poured concrete wall in between you and the DMM (Leads would not help here either without some drilling ;) ) which is a limit to a 2.4 GHz system. I have communicated the need for more range to Agilent and I can only hope that I'm not the only one doing so, and that they'll take it under consideration when designing later generations of equipment. One point of wireless for many that your extra long leads don't address is safety boundaries. There are certain situations where you're not allowed to energize electrical gear when it's open, so closing a meter inside allows you to test it while energize. Unfortunately, leads sticking out of the cabinet won't meet the requirements. Another important feature is the ability to move from room to room or floor to floor, which leads don't help with. I've used my Agilent stuff in three story buildings to identify circuits in a panel. That would require leads over 100 feet long to accomplish and pose a risk of someone closing a door on them or tripping over them and getting shocked if they tear open. Overall, a bad idea.
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Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2012, 01:50:25 am »
Was kidding about the leads but I have used a 100ft extension cord before with my thermometer  :)
Either way if the testing is similar between Agilent and Fluke they are doubling the range and from your experiences it sounds like they are being conservative with their spec. I do use a lot of temps so thermocouple with the lack of field calibration and the possibility of a typical Fluke slow responding cold junction is another disappointment. I may be paying too much attention to these systems anyway since none are rated for cold temps and I'm in freezers more than I'd like too be. My Fluke 52 will not work in a freezer so I'm assuming this system will not either  :-\
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2012, 01:45:09 am »
Was kidding about the leads but I have used a 100ft extension cord before with my thermometer  :)
Either way if the testing is similar between Agilent and Fluke they are doubling the range and from your experiences it sounds like they are being conservative with their spec. I do use a lot of temps so thermocouple with the lack of field calibration and the possibility of a typical Fluke slow responding cold junction is another disappointment. I may be paying too much attention to these systems anyway since none are rated for cold temps and I'm in freezers more than I'd like too be. My Fluke 52 will not work in a freezer so I'm assuming this system will not either  :-\

Oh but they are and they do! :)

The U1273AX is rated from -40C to +50C and it has an IR port for the Bluetooth module. It ain't cheap, but if you need it, they have it. You can stand outside the freezer from now on and monitor temp and voltage :)

http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pd-2180564-pn-U1273AX/handheld-digital-multimeter-45-digit-oled-display-40c-to-55c-operating-temperature?nid=-34618.1032171&cc=US&lc=eng
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Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2012, 03:40:57 am »
Saw that but the BT adaptor has a much higher operating temp. than the meter.  Also while I was checking the operating temp. I saw those Agilent meters and the BT wireless adaptors are more power hungry than the Fluke CNX.  If I don't get a wireless meter I will be giving them a serious look. Thanks.
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2012, 04:46:00 am »
Saw that but the BT adaptor has a much higher operating temp. than the meter.  Also while I was checking the operating temp. I saw those Agilent meters and the BT wireless adaptors are more power hungry than the Fluke CNX.  If I don't get a wireless meter I will be giving them a serious look. Thanks.

If Fluke got Zigbee certification, their devices would have to function for two years without replacing batteries. I'm not sure how that would affect update speed, but I can't imagine it would be very handy for real time remote monitoring. I know Agilent can be set to zero second update speed which is actually a few times per second, but early versions of the logging software would bog down at that rate. I haven't tried it recently with the updated software. Most times 1 second updates are fine for me and battery life is definitely good enough to work through a day at least. I've never left my test gear somewhere for overnight logging - I doubt it would be there when I got back ;)

I also can't imagine that you'd have issues with the Bluetooth module in cold temperatures for short periods of time. The weak link there would be the batteries, so higher performance batteries would help. I'll do some tests in the freezer if I can get some time this weekend. How long would you normally have to leave the DMM in cold temps for what you do, and what temperatures are we talking about - short term -5C or long term -18C storage?
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Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2012, 06:46:39 am »
For freezers (@-25?C) I'd like anywhere from 1-8 temps., one AC voltage and 1-2 AC current. I know I could always insulate the meters to keep them warm like I do with my 52 but that gets annoying.
For other equipment would like more AC voltage measurements with the temp. inputs where the operating temps would not be an issue but the wireless range might be.
What I would like is real time graphs with with everything on the same graph. Would want the long term logging for troubleshooting over a few days max. and the real time graphing would be useful at 4-6 hrs. most of the time.
For CNX I would like to know if the time stamp is actual time or just a counter and how they all sync up to keep track of events and would like to know about the graphing if it is indeed only one input at a time. Sure seems the CNX system is something that would handle what I'm looking for more than the Agilent system. I might get a kit and hope for software updates in the future and add to the modules if it's any good.
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2012, 09:58:32 pm »
PetrosA Thanks for the help and offer to test but don't do it for me if you aren't curious yourself. I had another bad experience with thermocouples reading over 100?F in a cooler today and my thermistors were just fine. I will not be buying any thermocouple anything any time soon especially not what it would cost me for multiple wireless units. Will probably get a 28II or give the Agilent a better look for a replacement meter I need. Thanks for the help anyways  :-+
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2012, 06:03:01 pm »
PetrosA Thanks for the help and offer to test but don't do it for me if you aren't curious yourself. I had another bad experience with thermocouples reading over 100?F in a cooler today and my thermistors were just fine. I will not be buying any thermocouple anything any time soon especially not what it would cost me for multiple wireless units. Will probably get a 28II or give the Agilent a better look for a replacement meter I need. Thanks for the help anyways  :-+

For shits and giggles I priced your list at tequipment.net... holy cow ;) $2,050 for the bundle. If you really needed to monitor that many (11) readings at once, you'd have to go with the Fluke system and a laptop for now since Agilent's Android system only handles three readings at once. I've been pushing for more (I'd like to be able to monitor L1,L2,L3 voltage and current plus at least a neutral current reading (so at least 7 simultaneously) so it could be used almost like a power quality monitor (the math functions in the LOGGER software would allow this). I don't know if or when they'll be implementing that since the main arguments against it is usability on android phones and processing power in mobile devices to handle that many threads at once.
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Offline T4P

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2012, 06:21:42 pm »
I doubt you have to worry about processing power, at least even the first kindle fire is plenty from it's OMAP4430
And the Nexus 7 well? That 1.2GHz quad core is dissapointing but only if it is memory bottlenecked, But it's still up there with the OMAP4 at least when it comes to not being bottlenecked
At least with the HD it's a OMAP4460.  :-+
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2012, 10:46:39 pm »
PetrosA Thanks for the help and offer to test but don't do it for me if you aren't curious yourself. I had another bad experience with thermocouples reading over 100?F in a cooler today and my thermistors were just fine. I will not be buying any thermocouple anything any time soon especially not what it would cost me for multiple wireless units. Will probably get a 28II or give the Agilent a better look for a replacement meter I need. Thanks for the help anyways  :-+

For shits and giggles I priced your list at tequipment.net... holy cow ;) $2,050 for the bundle. If you really needed to monitor that many (11) readings at once, you'd have to go with the Fluke system and a laptop for now since Agilent's Android system only handles three readings at once. I've been pushing for more (I'd like to be able to monitor L1,L2,L3 voltage and current plus at least a neutral current reading (so at least 7 simultaneously) so it could be used almost like a power quality monitor (the math functions in the LOGGER software would allow this). I don't know if or when they'll be implementing that since the main arguments against it is usability on android phones and processing power in mobile devices to handle that many threads at once.

It would be great if they made small thermometers that would connect to the B/T.
10 KOhm Thermistor with a 1/8" mono jack or RTD Please.
 I'm not as nuts as you guys on electric accuracy but I'm freak with temps.
I'm afraid if I dove into the CNX something would come up with those thermocouples. My Fluke is old and they probably have done some upgrades to work so close with the wireless signals but it's still lipstick on a pig IMO.
I believe the issue I had the other day was from interference from the lighting in the cooler. It messed with my Fluke 52 and another dual input pos unit. In dry conditions I've seen the measurement affected by static electricity built up on my cloths not to mention changing ambient temps cold junction issues.  I just can't deal with that BS daily    :-- |O
 

Offline Everett_Tom

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2013, 07:18:28 am »
Did anyone get one of these? It  looks like they've been out since November...
 

Offline mikethebike67

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2013, 09:44:43 pm »
I got the General Maintinence Kit which consists of the main multimeter one ac voltage module one amp module with flex clamp and the usb interface for the computer. I also got the amp clamp module to monitor both a and b phases of an electrical service or panel. BTW I am a journeyman electrician not an electrical engineer. I have already used it to find out why a 400 amp fuse was blowing on a building that houses golf carts at a country club. The problem was happening at 10:30 at night when the timing system turned on too many chargers at once. It is a very handy tool for what it is designed to do. There are things that I don't like about it though. The major gripe I have is that only the remote modules do data logging the main unit does not. If it did you could log dc voltage and dc amperage. The modules only do ac voltage and amperage. Dc is not a big problem for me like it might be for people that frequent this forum. But I could use it as an additional voltage module or with an amp clamp an additional amp module. Also if you have the modules wirelessly connected to the main unit and you go out of range of one of the modules you can't get it back without re-discovering all of the modules again. Kind of a pain. It also doesn't have an analog bargraph which isn't the end of the world but on other Fluke meters the bar graph lets you know what scale you are on ie 0-6,0-60,0-600. That's about all I can think of right now. Let me know if you have any other questions and I will try to answer them.   Mike
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #66 on: January 18, 2013, 10:43:00 pm »
Did anyone get one of these? It  looks like they've been out since November...

Supposedly mine is on the truck somewhere...

Dave.
 

Offline Everett_Tom

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2013, 06:07:18 am »
Thanks Mike,

and looking forward to the review Dave.
 


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