Author Topic: Flukes new meter family  (Read 22050 times)

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Offline ilikepez

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Flukes new meter family
« on: October 24, 2012, 06:03:26 pm »
For a while Fluke has been teasing a new wireless meter family, and today they are having a sneak peek webinar on element14. Unfortunately I can't make the webinar but I was able to find this data sheet on one of their dealers websites.
http://docs-asia.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/1144/0900766b81144714.pdf

Right now they are going to have four wireless modules and a main unit. The wireless modules are a voltage monitoring module, a current clamp, a module with a flexible current probe, and a wireless thermocouple module. The main unit can navigate between ten different modules, and read data from four at a time. A computer can monitor ten modules simultaneously. Each module is data logging as well so the main module or computer doesn't have to be in continuous contact with it.

Anyway I think its fairly interesting, although probably less useful for a hobbyist or someone working in a lab, for doing industrial maintenance I can see it being quite handy. More modules are in development supposedly but I'm not sure what else they really need, except for maybe a smaller current clamp.
 

Offline billclay

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2012, 06:35:06 pm »
Looks interesting, nothing else out there is like this.

I wonder if it will eat batteries like the 233 does?  :(
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2012, 06:37:19 pm »
Thanks!  Now that's a hot new development.  No maker I know has something like it, another Fluke first, I think.  I found a PR image, its unfortunately fairly large, but the detail is good electronics porn anyway.  Enjoy.



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 Saturation
 

Offline grenert

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 06:52:42 pm »
Yuck on the matrix display.  Didn't they learn from the 289?   :(
 

Offline nack

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 06:57:21 pm »
Maximum 600mA? Hmmm thans a pitty really. For the matrix display, yeah lets hope they have increased the contrast a bit in comparison to the 289.
 

Offline M. András

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 07:42:47 pm »
ahh double the pixel density and it would be fine. i like it as it is on my 289. however this looks intresting and looking at the logging datapoint numbers why they couldnt do that on the 289 too? stupid 10k limit
 

Offline ecat

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2012, 08:05:11 pm »
The display looks like e-ink, interesting choice if so.
Highly legible, very, very, very low power, sadly a maximum update rate of 2 or maybe 4 times a second.
 

Offline FenderBender

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2012, 10:42:20 pm »
Yeah I was about to comment that you can't update an e-ink display very quickly...as of now...maybe they have another trick up their sleeves?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2012, 01:13:36 am »
The display looks like e-ink, interesting choice if so.
Highly legible, very, very, very low power, sadly a maximum update rate of 2 or maybe 4 times a second.

It does kinda look e-inky.
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Pretty niche looking system though.

Dave.
 

Offline Paul Moir

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2012, 01:37:42 am »
What's up with that temperature module?  Only one type of thermocouple, +-0.5%+0.3deg?  I mean, you can buy a pocket +-1 deg thermometer with lifetime guarantee on the cal for ~$20....
 
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2012, 04:47:19 am »
looks like Eink but i think you can get LCD backlight sheeting to look paper white. It looks like a big high resolution matrix though, you could run a simple scope on it as well with the right firmware.
 

Offline ilikepez

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2012, 05:34:07 am »
What's up with that temperature module?  Only one type of thermocouple, +-0.5%+0.3deg?  I mean, you can buy a pocket +-1 deg thermometer with lifetime guarantee on the cal for ~$20....

But its not data logging or wireless. That is the big selling point. Fluke is really pushing these for industrial electricians and maintenance technicians. I think there is probably more money in that than the electronics design market.
 

Offline T4P

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2012, 07:55:01 am »
I guess the "600mA" limit is because it's like the 233 for electricians
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2012, 08:51:06 am »
looks like Eink but i think you can get LCD backlight sheeting to look paper white. It looks like a big high resolution matrix though, you could run a simple scope on it as well with the right firmware.
I'm sure if it was Eink they'd say it in big letters on the  datasheet. It could be a Sharp memory LCD but again I'd expect them to be shouting about it as a feature.
As it is a new range, the display photos may be faked due to not having production hardware.
The datasheet does say LCD.
E-ink or (better) Sharp memory LCD would be a very good choice for a DMM - someone  should do it.
Actually memory LCD would be better, as e-ink has the potential danger that it could continue to show a 'safe' voltage reading when the meter has died or crashed.
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Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2012, 08:58:32 am »
The display looks like some very basic photoshop job. I don't understand the fuss about it...
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Offline MartinX

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2012, 08:52:27 pm »
I am disappointed, they promise wireless but you still have to connect those pesky test leads. If they continue this line of marketing I am definitely suing.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2012, 11:32:38 pm »
And a move away from 2-3 digit numbering to "CNX3000"? That doesn't roll off the tongue like 87V or 179.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2012, 12:53:11 am »
It seems Fluke have noticed this is on the EEVblog community radar and are sending me one for review.

Dave.
 

Offline opticpow

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2012, 03:41:20 am »
Noice one Dave (Ozzie only ref soz). hmmm, meter p0rn. Got my popcorn ready  :D
 

Offline T4P

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2012, 04:58:34 am »
The display looks like some very basic photoshop job. I don't understand the fuss about it...
Exactly ...
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Offline iloveelectronics

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2012, 05:36:08 am »
The display looks like some very basic photoshop job. I don't understand the fuss about it...
Exactly ...
OT: So i finally know who this "Frankie" is, it's you!  :P

LOL! Busted!
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Offline saturation

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2012, 01:43:39 pm »
This is the best solution regarding the screen and performance questions raised on the thread ...

It seems Fluke have noticed this is on the EEVblog community radar and are sending me one for review.

Dave.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline billclay

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2012, 09:35:22 pm »
And a move away from 2-3 digit numbering to "CNX3000"? That doesn't roll off the tongue like 87V or 179.

What's CNX supposed to mean in marketing-speak?  Connects?  Connection?  Cancelled?
 

Offline billclay

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2012, 09:40:36 pm »
It seems Fluke have noticed this is on the EEVblog community radar and are sending me one for review.

Fluke should had sent you the pre-production unit.  Your feedback would have been much more useful to them at that point (although they would likely not let you disclose anything until after release.)  If the meter is crap now, too late...
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2012, 01:23:12 pm »
I'm not sure I see the advantage to this system vs. the Agilent system. With Agilent's system, you only need to buy the snap-on modules for your existing DMMs (and hopefully soon, clamp meters too) whereas with Fluke's system, you need to buy all new dedicated units to have a useful kit. I can do up to three meters together now with datalogging on any of the functions the Fluke system does, and that software will certainly be upgraded to handle more at sometime in the future. While I think Fluke is making a decent effort, I don't think it's the best they could have done and it kinda looks like backpedaling to me. I'm curious what their pricing will look like for this stuff.
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Offline T4P

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2012, 03:34:03 pm »
Good thing about the Agilents are that you can buy their lower end meters and datalog wirelessly using your bluetooth device, i.e android, PC
but Agilent said support for that crap OS is coming out - they mean probably, because it's a bitch to write for Apple apps and they probably won't allow them and lots of people are thanking Agilent on facebook for supporting Android but not that OS ... Go figure.
I would be interested in them supporting Win8(which i tried and hate), but then again if they wanted to support the Win8 tablets they can't write in the same style as Windows as they need to be in "Metro" format, the Tegra tablets do not support the same programs like the full version does (They call it Windows 8 RT - Reduced Technology presumably)
 

Offline ilikepez

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2012, 07:12:18 pm »
I'm not sure I see the advantage to this system vs. the Agilent system. With Agilent's system, you only need to buy the snap-on modules for your existing DMMs (and hopefully soon, clamp meters too) whereas with Fluke's system, you need to buy all new dedicated units to have a useful kit. I can do up to three meters together now with datalogging on any of the functions the Fluke system does, and that software will certainly be upgraded to handle more at sometime in the future. While I think Fluke is making a decent effort, I don't think it's the best they could have done and it kinda looks like backpedaling to me. I'm curious what their pricing will look like for this stuff.

The big advantages in my eyes are that you can run more then 3 units, you don't have to be connected to them to data log, and you can run ten from a computer. But the Agilent system is very attractive, especially if you own a android device.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2012, 09:02:10 pm »
Do Agilent have any wireless clamp meter solution?

Dave.
 

Offline LEECH666

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2012, 09:07:48 pm »
Wouldn't an E-Ink display suffer from not so great update rate (thinking high speed bargraph display)?
 

Offline billclay

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2012, 03:12:25 am »

Fluke's new process calibrator uses a backlit full color display, but the LCD uses only two colors: black and white.  Probably the same thing here.

Here is Fluke's article on this (including e-ink issues):

http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/usen/community/fluke-news-plus/ArticleCategories/Electronics-News/Tech-Tips-Better-Displays-Are-Here.htm?utm_source=TWITTER&utm_medium=TWEET&utm_campaign=FNP&flukecmpgn=TWITTER_TWEET_FNP
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2012, 03:18:33 am »
Dave,  Fieldpiece does have a wireless clamp DMM among other instruments and accessories. Looking forward to the review of the CNX series. Most interested in the wireless range and PC connection. Looking for the most wireless range possible due to building material obstructions in the workplace. Was looking at the Redfish iDVM and Fieldpiece SC57 for other options but was waiting for this new Fluke series. The Fluke meter looks solid and well beyond what others offer as I would expect but the wireless range might be a bust with out a repeater or possibility of range extension with the PC accessory and a WiFi extender antenna if thats how it will connect to a PC.
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2012, 03:51:51 am »
Do Agilent have any wireless clamp meter solution?

Dave.

You can use clamps with their DMMs, and all their clamp meters have IR ports, but no mounting means as yet. This is supposed to change, or so I've been informed :) I have successfully taped one of the modules to the back of my U1211A and it worked flawlessly with both the METER and LOGGER software, so it's just a question of time till they get the new battery covers together.
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Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2012, 04:02:06 am »
Dave,  Fieldpiece does have a wireless clamp DMM among other instruments and accessories. Looking forward to the review of the CNX series. Most interested in the wireless range and PC connection. Looking for the most wireless range possible due to building material obstructions in the workplace. Was looking at the Redfish iDVM and Fieldpiece SC57 for other options but was waiting for this new Fluke series. The Fluke meter looks solid and well beyond what others offer as I would expect but the wireless range might be a bust with out a repeater or possibility of range extension with the PC accessory and a WiFi extender antenna if thats how it will connect to a PC.

I seriously doubt that Fluke is using WiFi for their system, or they'd have advertised more than a 20m range. It sounds like bluetooth, just like Agilent. My experience with Agilent's system is that US frame construction doesn't block the signal too much and in open space I have acheived 20m or more, but any kind of poured concrete walls will block it effectively, even at close range. I haven't don't much testing in cinder block buildings through walls, but I expect it will also limit the signal pretty seriously. A repeater could be used, but you'd have to establish line-of-sight between all the units, so to get through a concrete wall you'd have to place the repeater at the end of it (or in a doorway) so that you're not trying to penetrate the impenetrable.

One of the downsides to a WiFi network (as it's been explained to me) is that it requires two-way communication to work, which would create a large drain on the transmitters. As they're designed now, they simply stream the data out to whatever Bluetooth device is connected.
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Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2012, 10:45:04 pm »
I was thinking I might be able to extend the range with a Wireless USB Device.
 A wireless usb+something like a Bear Extender Wifi antenna should get me out of mechanical rooms or up to a roof.
It almost sounds like the main meter isn't necessary if you have the PC connected to the modules via whatever it is they have cooked up.
Just wish they included micro amps to the main meter and colder operating temps for all of the meters.
Looking forward to more info about this system. A operation manual and more info about the software would be helpful for us considering the system.
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2012, 04:02:02 am »
Here is an image of the PC adaptor



http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/products/wireless-testers

No manual yet.
 

Offline Everett_Tom

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2012, 04:28:16 am »
Looks like it's listed on their website now -- manual for the DMM, and modules..
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/usen/wireless-digital-mulitmeters/Fluke-CNX-3000-Wireless-Multimeter.htm?PID=74899
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2012, 05:44:56 am »
Thanks. Looks simple enough.
Still looking for the CNX pc3000 PC Adapter and Software manual.
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2012, 05:15:39 pm »
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2012, 05:57:36 pm »
Am I the only one noticing the lack of DC modules?
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2012, 10:38:27 pm »
Would like them too!! With a DC module I could use accessories from other manufactures but they would be supercharged with the data logging.
Would like to see some bundled modules for sale also.
The price in the kits looks far from the individual cost say you wanted to add some more temps and voltage to the hvac kit.
Dave if you get a temp module could you look at how well the cold junction works in a changing ambient? I'm not a fan of thremocouples  :-\
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2012, 11:02:15 pm »
Not sure if you are looking for multiple DC inputs but it says the meter (DC measurment) could be used as a transmitter to another CNX meter or the PC
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2012, 11:10:28 pm »
Not sure if you are looking for multiple DC inputs but it says the meter (DC measurment) could be used as a transmitter to another CNX meter or the PC

.. Well, yes, I'm talking about additional DC voltage/current modules. They only offer AC.
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2012, 12:10:33 am »
So I took a look at the software at home on the PC and it looks like you can switch between 2 different PC adaptors so is that access to 20 inputs then? Looks like you can only live graph one input at a time........ bummer. 
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2012, 12:35:26 am »
Not sure if you are looking for multiple DC inputs but it says the meter (DC measurment) could be used as a transmitter to another CNX meter or the PC

.. Well, yes, I'm talking about additional DC voltage/current modules. They only offer AC.
Just a shot in the dark but isn't stuff like DC mV most susceptible to interference form wireless signals at close range? One of the reasons I don't like thermocouples for temperature.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2012, 01:22:33 pm »
I seriously doubt that Fluke is using WiFi for their system, or they'd have advertised more than a 20m range. It sounds like bluetooth, just like Agilent.

I am not sure, but due to the power saving requirements and small memory footprint I would bet these devices use Zigbee instead of BT or WLAN.

An interesting paper that does an interesting comparison is here.
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Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2012, 01:18:35 am »
Your right. This is from a Q&A in a Fluke brochure.

"CNX uses zigbee radios with a proprietary overlay to communicate wirelessly. Zigbee was selected to allow customers to connect with up to ten CNX meters or modules and maximize battery life.
Other radio options, such as Bluetooth or WiFi, typically connect with fewer devices (3-7) and have higher energy consumption."
 

Offline Everett_Tom

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2012, 10:14:57 pm »
And a move away from 2-3 digit numbering to "CNX3000"? That doesn't roll off the tongue like 87V or 179.

What's CNX supposed to mean in marketing-speak?  Connects?  Connection?  Cancelled?

Apparently it's "Connects", See this youtube video.

 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2012, 01:43:32 am »

I am not sure, but due to the power saving requirements and small memory footprint I would bet these devices use Zigbee instead of BT or WLAN.

An interesting paper that does an interesting comparison is here.

I wonder how much of that decision was made just to be different than Agilent. It could be they decided it really was a better protocol, but from that paper you linked to, it seems like 6 of one, half a dozen of the other...
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Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2012, 01:51:42 am »
I find it very interesting that so many posters are interested in the Fluke system over the Agilent system in spite of the fact that there are obvious problems getting things you want like DC voltage or current modules or multi-device graphing, all of which the Agilent system has already, and can also do math functions with them. Hmm. And the prices are very high - the only things you can get for under $100 are the PC adapter and carrying cases. Is the Fluke name really so meaningful that you'd chose their weaker system over the Agilent system that already rocks?
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Offline T4P

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2012, 08:35:38 am »
Of course not but every new product is worth checking out!  :P
 

Offline ilikepez

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2012, 09:25:22 am »
I find it very interesting that so many posters are interested in the Fluke system over the Agilent system in spite of the fact that there are obvious problems getting things you want like DC voltage or current modules or multi-device graphing, all of which the Agilent system has already, and can also do math functions with them. Hmm. And the prices are very high - the only things you can get for under $100 are the PC adapter and carrying cases. Is the Fluke name really so meaningful that you'd chose their weaker system over the Agilent system that already rocks?

I guess the big difference is each module can take 65,000 readings on its own, and you can connect to ten at once with a computer. Fluke is planning to add new modules with different functions later. The Agilent system is superior for most peoples needs. I'm actually a little bit put off that the modules are so specialized. It would have sold me a lot more on this system if each module could measure ac/dc and then attach to the clamp or temperature accessories with settings like Agilent has for automatic scale conversions. I'm pretty interested in seeing how similar the modules are when Dave gets to crack them open.
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2012, 10:04:39 pm »
I find it very interesting that so many posters are interested in the Fluke system over the Agilent system in spite of the fact that there are obvious problems getting things you want like DC voltage or current modules or multi-device graphing, all of which the Agilent system has already, and can also do math functions with them. Hmm. And the prices are very high - the only things you can get for under $100 are the PC adapter and carrying cases. Is the Fluke name really so meaningful that you'd chose their weaker system over the Agilent system that already rocks?
What kind of real world wireless range are we talking with Agilent compared to the Fluke system? The Fieldpiece meters are spec'ed at 75-100 ft without the use of repeaters. Not super accurate, no realtime graphing and looks battery hungry but they go quite a distance over the  others. Here is a demo of one of the Fieldpiece meters
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2012, 11:39:12 pm »
What kind of real world wireless range are we talking with Agilent compared to the Fluke system? The Fieldpiece meters are spec'ed at 75-100 ft without the use of repeaters. Not super accurate, no realtime graphing and looks battery hungry but they go quite a distance over the  others. Here is a demo of one of the Fieldpiece meters

Agilent currently uses Class 2 Bluetooth, so around 30 feet. Fluke is using Zigbee, but at 2.4 GHz, so they're not going to be seeing any better signal penetration in concrete buildings than what Agilent has and their range will be similar. I don't know what protocol Fieldpiece is using, so I don't know how useful that 100 ft range they advertise is, but I do know that Fieldpiece is a very rare brand among electricians and technicians outside of the HVAC domain here in the US and their products aren't very well known. Fluke, Agilent, Hioki, AEMC, Megger, Ideal and Klein all advertise regularly in trade mags for the electrical industry - Fieldpiece, never.

The main difference between the Agilent and Fluke systems is that Fluke has created a supposedly "user friendly" system but one which isn't very upgradeable by users or very elastic in use or that offers any kind of backwards compatibilities - in general it assumes it's users are just plug and play capable. Agilent's system allows you to make use of your existing gear - some of which already has datalogging built in, it offers regular software updates, offers much more flexibility with what you can connect and monitor, works with your phone or tablet or PC and allows users much greater ability to customize what they do. All in all, I can't imagine wanting to switch systems - it would be a huge step backwards.
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Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2012, 11:57:20 pm »
That would make all the sense in the world if I use a Android a PC and multiple Agilent meters but I have none of those. That would be a big through down for less wireless range on a wireless meter system. I think I have some meter leads that will reach as far as bluetooth.  Sorry if it seems snotty but if your gonna by a wireless meter wireless might as well be its strongest feature.
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2012, 12:39:18 am »
That would make all the sense in the world if I use a Android a PC and multiple Agilent meters but I have none of those. That would be a big through down for less wireless range on a wireless meter system. I think I have some meter leads that will reach as far as bluetooth.  Sorry if it seems snotty but if your gonna by a wireless meter wireless might as well be its strongest feature.

It's not snotty - it's a valid point. Like I said, I don't know the Fieldpiece system and no one around here carries it, so I can't even check it out, but I would have to know that their specs are accurate and not just marketing. I know the Agilent modules can reach close to 50 feet  in the right conditions, but they also fail at three feet if there happens to be a poured concrete wall in between you and the DMM (Leads would not help here either without some drilling ;) ) which is a limit to a 2.4 GHz system. I have communicated the need for more range to Agilent and I can only hope that I'm not the only one doing so, and that they'll take it under consideration when designing later generations of equipment. One point of wireless for many that your extra long leads don't address is safety boundaries. There are certain situations where you're not allowed to energize electrical gear when it's open, so closing a meter inside allows you to test it while energize. Unfortunately, leads sticking out of the cabinet won't meet the requirements. Another important feature is the ability to move from room to room or floor to floor, which leads don't help with. I've used my Agilent stuff in three story buildings to identify circuits in a panel. That would require leads over 100 feet long to accomplish and pose a risk of someone closing a door on them or tripping over them and getting shocked if they tear open. Overall, a bad idea.
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Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2012, 01:50:25 am »
Was kidding about the leads but I have used a 100ft extension cord before with my thermometer  :)
Either way if the testing is similar between Agilent and Fluke they are doubling the range and from your experiences it sounds like they are being conservative with their spec. I do use a lot of temps so thermocouple with the lack of field calibration and the possibility of a typical Fluke slow responding cold junction is another disappointment. I may be paying too much attention to these systems anyway since none are rated for cold temps and I'm in freezers more than I'd like too be. My Fluke 52 will not work in a freezer so I'm assuming this system will not either  :-\
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2012, 01:45:09 am »
Was kidding about the leads but I have used a 100ft extension cord before with my thermometer  :)
Either way if the testing is similar between Agilent and Fluke they are doubling the range and from your experiences it sounds like they are being conservative with their spec. I do use a lot of temps so thermocouple with the lack of field calibration and the possibility of a typical Fluke slow responding cold junction is another disappointment. I may be paying too much attention to these systems anyway since none are rated for cold temps and I'm in freezers more than I'd like too be. My Fluke 52 will not work in a freezer so I'm assuming this system will not either  :-\

Oh but they are and they do! :)

The U1273AX is rated from -40C to +50C and it has an IR port for the Bluetooth module. It ain't cheap, but if you need it, they have it. You can stand outside the freezer from now on and monitor temp and voltage :)

http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pd-2180564-pn-U1273AX/handheld-digital-multimeter-45-digit-oled-display-40c-to-55c-operating-temperature?nid=-34618.1032171&cc=US&lc=eng
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Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2012, 03:40:57 am »
Saw that but the BT adaptor has a much higher operating temp. than the meter.  Also while I was checking the operating temp. I saw those Agilent meters and the BT wireless adaptors are more power hungry than the Fluke CNX.  If I don't get a wireless meter I will be giving them a serious look. Thanks.
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2012, 04:46:00 am »
Saw that but the BT adaptor has a much higher operating temp. than the meter.  Also while I was checking the operating temp. I saw those Agilent meters and the BT wireless adaptors are more power hungry than the Fluke CNX.  If I don't get a wireless meter I will be giving them a serious look. Thanks.

If Fluke got Zigbee certification, their devices would have to function for two years without replacing batteries. I'm not sure how that would affect update speed, but I can't imagine it would be very handy for real time remote monitoring. I know Agilent can be set to zero second update speed which is actually a few times per second, but early versions of the logging software would bog down at that rate. I haven't tried it recently with the updated software. Most times 1 second updates are fine for me and battery life is definitely good enough to work through a day at least. I've never left my test gear somewhere for overnight logging - I doubt it would be there when I got back ;)

I also can't imagine that you'd have issues with the Bluetooth module in cold temperatures for short periods of time. The weak link there would be the batteries, so higher performance batteries would help. I'll do some tests in the freezer if I can get some time this weekend. How long would you normally have to leave the DMM in cold temps for what you do, and what temperatures are we talking about - short term -5C or long term -18C storage?
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Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2012, 06:46:39 am »
For freezers (@-25?C) I'd like anywhere from 1-8 temps., one AC voltage and 1-2 AC current. I know I could always insulate the meters to keep them warm like I do with my 52 but that gets annoying.
For other equipment would like more AC voltage measurements with the temp. inputs where the operating temps would not be an issue but the wireless range might be.
What I would like is real time graphs with with everything on the same graph. Would want the long term logging for troubleshooting over a few days max. and the real time graphing would be useful at 4-6 hrs. most of the time.
For CNX I would like to know if the time stamp is actual time or just a counter and how they all sync up to keep track of events and would like to know about the graphing if it is indeed only one input at a time. Sure seems the CNX system is something that would handle what I'm looking for more than the Agilent system. I might get a kit and hope for software updates in the future and add to the modules if it's any good.
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #60 on: November 21, 2012, 09:58:32 pm »
PetrosA Thanks for the help and offer to test but don't do it for me if you aren't curious yourself. I had another bad experience with thermocouples reading over 100?F in a cooler today and my thermistors were just fine. I will not be buying any thermocouple anything any time soon especially not what it would cost me for multiple wireless units. Will probably get a 28II or give the Agilent a better look for a replacement meter I need. Thanks for the help anyways  :-+
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2012, 06:03:01 pm »
PetrosA Thanks for the help and offer to test but don't do it for me if you aren't curious yourself. I had another bad experience with thermocouples reading over 100?F in a cooler today and my thermistors were just fine. I will not be buying any thermocouple anything any time soon especially not what it would cost me for multiple wireless units. Will probably get a 28II or give the Agilent a better look for a replacement meter I need. Thanks for the help anyways  :-+

For shits and giggles I priced your list at tequipment.net... holy cow ;) $2,050 for the bundle. If you really needed to monitor that many (11) readings at once, you'd have to go with the Fluke system and a laptop for now since Agilent's Android system only handles three readings at once. I've been pushing for more (I'd like to be able to monitor L1,L2,L3 voltage and current plus at least a neutral current reading (so at least 7 simultaneously) so it could be used almost like a power quality monitor (the math functions in the LOGGER software would allow this). I don't know if or when they'll be implementing that since the main arguments against it is usability on android phones and processing power in mobile devices to handle that many threads at once.
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Offline T4P

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2012, 06:21:42 pm »
I doubt you have to worry about processing power, at least even the first kindle fire is plenty from it's OMAP4430
And the Nexus 7 well? That 1.2GHz quad core is dissapointing but only if it is memory bottlenecked, But it's still up there with the OMAP4 at least when it comes to not being bottlenecked
At least with the HD it's a OMAP4460.  :-+
 

Offline MITTS

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2012, 10:46:39 pm »
PetrosA Thanks for the help and offer to test but don't do it for me if you aren't curious yourself. I had another bad experience with thermocouples reading over 100?F in a cooler today and my thermistors were just fine. I will not be buying any thermocouple anything any time soon especially not what it would cost me for multiple wireless units. Will probably get a 28II or give the Agilent a better look for a replacement meter I need. Thanks for the help anyways  :-+

For shits and giggles I priced your list at tequipment.net... holy cow ;) $2,050 for the bundle. If you really needed to monitor that many (11) readings at once, you'd have to go with the Fluke system and a laptop for now since Agilent's Android system only handles three readings at once. I've been pushing for more (I'd like to be able to monitor L1,L2,L3 voltage and current plus at least a neutral current reading (so at least 7 simultaneously) so it could be used almost like a power quality monitor (the math functions in the LOGGER software would allow this). I don't know if or when they'll be implementing that since the main arguments against it is usability on android phones and processing power in mobile devices to handle that many threads at once.

It would be great if they made small thermometers that would connect to the B/T.
10 KOhm Thermistor with a 1/8" mono jack or RTD Please.
 I'm not as nuts as you guys on electric accuracy but I'm freak with temps.
I'm afraid if I dove into the CNX something would come up with those thermocouples. My Fluke is old and they probably have done some upgrades to work so close with the wireless signals but it's still lipstick on a pig IMO.
I believe the issue I had the other day was from interference from the lighting in the cooler. It messed with my Fluke 52 and another dual input pos unit. In dry conditions I've seen the measurement affected by static electricity built up on my cloths not to mention changing ambient temps cold junction issues.  I just can't deal with that BS daily    :-- |O
 

Offline Everett_Tom

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2013, 07:18:28 am »
Did anyone get one of these? It  looks like they've been out since November...
 

Offline mikethebike67

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2013, 09:44:43 pm »
I got the General Maintinence Kit which consists of the main multimeter one ac voltage module one amp module with flex clamp and the usb interface for the computer. I also got the amp clamp module to monitor both a and b phases of an electrical service or panel. BTW I am a journeyman electrician not an electrical engineer. I have already used it to find out why a 400 amp fuse was blowing on a building that houses golf carts at a country club. The problem was happening at 10:30 at night when the timing system turned on too many chargers at once. It is a very handy tool for what it is designed to do. There are things that I don't like about it though. The major gripe I have is that only the remote modules do data logging the main unit does not. If it did you could log dc voltage and dc amperage. The modules only do ac voltage and amperage. Dc is not a big problem for me like it might be for people that frequent this forum. But I could use it as an additional voltage module or with an amp clamp an additional amp module. Also if you have the modules wirelessly connected to the main unit and you go out of range of one of the modules you can't get it back without re-discovering all of the modules again. Kind of a pain. It also doesn't have an analog bargraph which isn't the end of the world but on other Fluke meters the bar graph lets you know what scale you are on ie 0-6,0-60,0-600. That's about all I can think of right now. Let me know if you have any other questions and I will try to answer them.   Mike
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #66 on: January 18, 2013, 10:43:00 pm »
Did anyone get one of these? It  looks like they've been out since November...

Supposedly mine is on the truck somewhere...

Dave.
 

Offline Everett_Tom

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Re: Flukes new meter family
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2013, 06:07:18 am »
Thanks Mike,

and looking forward to the review Dave.
 


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