Dave's looked at the yellow FNIRSI-5012H 100MHz bandwidth 500MS/s.Yes, I know he looked at that, that's what I mentioned in parenthesies.
your link doesn't work.Weird. I clicked it and it worked, let me link another one. This one should also be from the official firnis store on ali:
also interested in this tablet o'scope. does any body got hand on this o'scope???
The main hardware is probably the same garbage as the little one. If you want a tablet oscope don't waste your money and get a micsig.
Original Poster's link worked for me.
If they had a 4 channel version of this it would be the perfect cheap automotive scope. I don't have the need for anything mobile, but being battery operated would be awesome because then I would be isolated from mains. Even if it operates at half it's claimed bandwidth it would be worth it (to me).
Original Poster's link worked for me.Don't mistake an oscilloscope like this with an oscilloscope suitable to use with mains! This oscilloscope has no protection against touching live parts at all so it is not suitable to use as a floating oscilloscope. You'll need to use a CAT rated differential probe anyway to probe anything connected to mains.
If they had a 4 channel version of this it would be the perfect cheap automotive scope. I don't have the need for anything mobile, but being battery operated would be awesome because then I would be isolated from mains. Even if it operates at half it's claimed bandwidth it would be worth it (to me).
4：Vertical sensitivity: 50 mV/div ~ 500 V/div
Mine hasnt come in yet with all this disrupted mail stuff, so I cant test anything yet, hopefully Kosmic will have further updates soon.
Hi!
Did anyone check if it was capable of 100Mhz? Or where its limit is?
Hi all.
I got one of these to test out. Results so far are OK-ish – i.e. it does work.
- My unit is way out on vertical accuracy, yielding around 212 mVpp for a 200 mVpp 1 kHz square wave. Specification is 2%, which seems optimistic, but 6% high is fairly poor.
- No way to store or restore setups, and fairly limited measurement options.
- I am not sure if it is set to a sinc mode or not – no setting for this.
- Waveform capture is two horizontal screens wide, so you can shift the window that much. No hold-off or other such niceties.
I have an oscilloscope calibrator here at work, so give some suggestions as to what I should verify and I will try to get it sorted.
Cool. I don't expect it to be perfect at this price point but is there anything you'd say was a deal breaker?
How's the touch screen? Good update rate? How easy it is to set horizontal/vertical scale? Does it crash and need rebooting?
Are you "This is OK...", or "What a pile of garbage!"?
That wouldn't worry me at all. "About 200mV" is fine.
(and yeah, 2% is never going to happen with an 8-bit ADC on a device like this)
Sooooo annoying if it doesn't power on to a known state (preferably the same as power-off).
It will be obvious if it doesn't have it: Zoom in on a rising edge and look for Gibbs phenomenon, ie. a sinc will show ringing before the signal starts to rise.
The main thing at this price point is being able to see wiggly lines on screen properly and not have any deal-breaking fails/annoyances.
I'd go to the extremes of horizontal scale and see how badly it aliases high/low frequencies. See if you can get it to display correct-looking waves with completely wrong frequencies.
How good is the FFT? I have a cheapo device with an awesome FFT (much better than the FFT on low end Rigols/Siglents).
FFT included in attachments. It seems viable for simple requirements. Update rate is fast.
Attachments:
Pic 1: 200 mVpp @ 1 kHz (centred)
Pic 2: 200 mVpp @ 100 kHz (centred)
Pic 3: 3 Vpp @ 50 kHz sine (centred) – horizontal jitter roughly ± 0.1 div
Pic 4: 3 Vpp @ 50 kHz sine (centred) – trigger shifted low
Pic 5: 3 Vpp @ 50 kHz sine (centred) – trigger shifted high
Pic 6 & 7: 3 Vpp @ 50 MHz sine (centred) – amplitude ~2.3<->2.5 Vpp
Pic 8: 3 Vpp @ 10 MHz sine (centred) – stable amplitude (becomes significantly unstable around 20 MHz)
Pic 9: 3 Vpp @ 10 Hz sine (centred) – roll mode (automatic - cannot be selected)
Pic 10: 3 Vpp @ 50 kHz sine (centred) – aliased signal (AUTO SET not used, but shows aliasing is possible)
Pic 11: 200 mVpp @ 1 kHz (centred) – FFT
Pic 12-14: 20 Vpp @ 1 kHz (centred) – FFT, shifting horizontal scale
Definitely something weird in the FFT.
How do you adjust the horizontal/vertical? Does it use gestures like pinch-zoom, etc.?
What are your thoughts about ease of use of the interface, especially compared to traditional knob and button layouts? Simpler? Confusing?
More or fewer steps to accomplish intent?
How useful is the manual for experienced? For noobs?
Would it be possible to test it with higher frequency square waves, e.g. 10-100MHz?
the manual appears to claim that you need to use the 10x probe setting to achieve the claimed bandwidth.
Jitter starts getting significant past 10 MHz for sine waves, so the triggering is a bit dubious.
the manual appears to claim that you need to use the 10x probe setting to achieve the claimed bandwidth.That's true on all 'scopes.
Jitter starts getting significant past 10 MHz for sine waves, so the triggering is a bit dubious.This is much more worrying. 10Mhz is in the "Arduino range".
So its amplitude rolloff is not consistent through the V/div ranges and BNC cable connection produces different results ? :-//the manual appears to claim that you need to use the 10x probe setting to achieve the claimed bandwidth.That's true on all 'scopes.
Not with an oscilloscope calibrator. Or at least I have not found this to ever be the case.
The bandwidth is determined using direct connection from an Active Head. (Usually 3 Vpp @ 50 kHz as reference level, so I did that here, but didn't bother to adjust for an accurate 3 Vpp reference indication because this isn't really a 'performance' instrument, so meh...)
So this instrument seems a bit odd, if it only functions correctly with the probe.Jitter starts getting significant past 10 MHz for sine waves, so the triggering is a bit dubious.This is much more worrying. 10Mhz is in the "Arduino range".There isn't a lot in the front end. A gradual deterioration in stability seems to occur, somewhere past 10 MHz for a sine wave. Because this starts at 50 mV/div, perhaps it would perform better with a higher amplitude than 3 Vpp.
Sounds like it's still a toy scope, not a serious instrument, and the bandwidth is still a lie. As expected.Is the Hantek linked below a less enough of a "toy" to be worth $70 more?
So its amplitude rolloff is not consistent through the V/div ranges and BNC cable connection produces different results ? :-//
Cool, thanks for your checks and the GUI looks not too bad but shame it's not a real 100 MHz scope.So its amplitude rolloff is not consistent through the V/div ranges and BNC cable connection produces different results ? :-//
It appears to be a weird hybrid / fast logger design to me, repurposed through software to give 'scope-like functionality.
My positive takes are: it is cheap, claimed to handle 400 Vpeak directly (yeah... I could check, but...), responsive UI, makes taking screen / waveform captures easy (but limited options if you want to do anything on the device), and it does yield a sensible(ish) trace up to 50 MHz+.
Negative: not really a handheld 'scope, IMO.
I think it is more of a "basic 'scope" / pretty inaccurate DMM hybrid. (And I suspect it's really a data logger.)
Should you buy it?
Well, will it do what you would want it for? Should be useful to quickly probe something before cranking up the real 'scope, as an alternative to the cheaper not-quite 'scopes, or for certain 'niche' uses. I intend on adding it to my gear for the Airsoft club, where it could be handy to check for battery/motor type faults where a DMM doesn't tell you enough.
Sounds like it's still a toy scope, not a serious instrument, and the bandwidth is still a lie. As expected.
Sounds like it's still a toy scope, not a serious instrument, and the bandwidth is still a lie. As expected.
Anybody could have told you that just from the price, no need to read the thread or get snobbish over it.
Every measuring/diagnostic device has its best uses and limitations and requires significant user familiarity with its best useage, quirks and anomalies.
Sounds like it's still a toy scope, not a serious instrument, and the bandwidth is still a lie. As expected.
Anybody could have told you that just from the price, no need to read the thread or get snobbish over it.
....until then I'd rather people with limited budgets not waste that money.
Especially with the guy performing all the tests being way too happy with a fairly expensive toy scope.
I'd rather people with limited budgets not waste that money
At this price level you can't really go wrong. Worst case you end up with a portable scope you can use on the road. Someone else made the suggestion for the 60% more expensive Hantek but at that point you better save more money and buy a real (entry level) oscilloscope. But I agree this FNIRSI-1013D portable scope's price is at the tipping point where you have to consider spending around $450 on a real entry level oscilloscope or spend $130 and get by for a couple of years.Sounds like it's still a toy scope, not a serious instrument, and the bandwidth is still a lie. As expected.
Anybody could have told you that just from the price, no need to read the thread or get snobbish over it.
Yea. Multiple people bought one because they thought it'd be the same thing as the last one. I think multiple people thought it was going to be something more because of the form factor change. If you'd read the thread you'd see that I had. It's also not me getting snobbish I'm summarizing for people who don't know better. They see all the screenshots and won't know what to make of it. Especially with the guy performing all the tests being way too happy with a fairly expensive toy scope. Maybe someone will do like ataradov did with the smaller one and write new firmware for it but until then I'd rather people with limited budgets not waste that money.
I look at it this way: Different scopes for different folks.
Not everyone has the same need for the same degree of stability required for their diverse applications.I look at it this way: Different scopes for different folks.
Beginners usually don't have enough knowledge to determine what would be useful but a stable trigger and working measurements are usually a baseline.
working measurements are usually a baseline.
Especially with the guy performing all the tests being way too happy with a fairly expensive toy scope.
(Special usage to please maginnovision. :D Now who can tell which 'toy' is at fault? :-DD)
As far as I can tell there is nothing about this that is a substantial upgrade over their last iteration which was bad enough a forum member wrote his own firmware for it. It had plenty of issues and this one seems to as well.
Apparently I can't even get people to agree on a baseline so I recommend everyone go out and buy one. It'll be my new newbie scope recommendation since everyone is saying I'm just a negative nancy.
eg. Why do the height of the peaks on the square wave in that image alternate tall/short? Are the tall ones harmonics and the short ones aliases? I don't know the source of the signal in that video and the horizontal axis has no scale.
Can the measurement cursors be used on the FFT? Is there any control of the FFT horizontal scale or does it simply follow the horizontal timebase? :-//
I'd love to have one to play with for a couple of hours.
Here there is a small alternation of high and low peak, but this is due to the FFT. If the frequency matches exactly one of the main frequency of the FFT, you have a high isolated peak. If you are further from one of the FFT harmonics, yoiu have a smaller, but broader peak.
So the peak is shorter because it's "smeared" across two pixels...In some sense, yes. But it is already in the mathematical FFT of the signal, not only in the display.
Does the horizontal scale of the FFT change when you change the timebase of the 'scope? It would be good to zoom in on the first few harmonics.
I just received my ADS1013D from Banggood.
I consider it as a very valuable piece of equipment, and a real oscilloscope with a huge advantage over
my previous oscilloscopes [bold added] ( I have many anchor boats and a recent rigol 1054Z)
You will have access only to the beginning part ( which is what you asked for).
Certainly not on par with your Rigol 1054Z, right?
What will be the circumstances/types of testing with your new ADS1013D that you would not use the Rigol for?
(https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/)
@nctnicoThat IS category 1.
There is also the category of tools
4) Cheap, not full featured, but fulfill your needs.
Certainly not on par with your Rigol 1054Z, right? https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/ (https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/)No, the Rigol is far superior in performance from what I have measured
What will be the circumstances/types of testing with your new ADS1013D that you would not use the Rigol for?
@nctnicoThat IS category 1.
There is also the category of tools
4) Cheap, not full featured, but fulfills your needs.
Well, after considerable consternating and other assorted deliberations, I went with the Hantek 5072P. http://www.hantek.com/en/productdetail_97.html (http://www.hantek.com/en/productdetail_97.html)
My own interest in this "toy" is more because of form factor and portability than its measuring ability.
The FFT function seems very dubious to me. I am not sure how they're deriving it, but the weird 'foldback' artefacts it produced (shown in my screen-grabs) are spurious.
If that's important to you, then this is probably not suitable. More testing would be required to figure out what it is doing, and the limitations.
There is no labels on the ADS1013D, and the scales are difficult to adjust. It can only be used marginally.
It's a 'basic' instrument.
A modern 'real' oscilloscope (Siglent and Rigol are probably fine low-cost options) is a better bet if you want a more flexible instrument.
Siglent make hand-held 'scopes, too, if that is a requirement.
Yes we all know the low cost Rigol FFT is poor but an equivalent Siglent X-E ?A modern 'real' oscilloscope (Siglent and Rigol are probably fine low-cost options) is a better bet if you want a more flexible instrument.
The FFT on both of those is horrible.
Yes we all know the low cost Rigol FFT is poor but an equivalent Siglent X-E ?
::)Yes we all know the low cost Rigol FFT is poor but an equivalent Siglent X-E ?
I'm just looking at the horrible FFT, awful laggy controls and slow update rate shown in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf0TgfzYQXE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf0TgfzYQXE)
(skip to 4:00)
It doesn't look like much of a step up from the Rigol to me. :-//
eg. At 4:30 he's showing a single sine wave, shouldn't the 'scope be showing a horizontal noise floor with a single vertical spike?
[attachimg=1]
My DSO Quad can manage it. It updates the FFT overlay at 30 fps, too, not the 1 fps of the Siglent.
[attachimg=2]
One glance at the UI and I know it's operating with very old FW and after watching the whole video it's obvious how much better the results would be with the features that have since been added.
So you bought a DSO Quad to supplement the FFT that your Rigol can't do ? :-DD
From 6.45. Also with old firmware but from a guy that knows how to drive Siglent X-E FFT. :phew:One glance at the UI and I know it's operating with very old FW and after watching the whole video it's obvious how much better the results would be with the features that have since been added.
Video? Screenshots? I'm having trouble finding any. Let's see the new frame rates, etc.
Let's see if they've managed to get it up to the level of a DSO Quad.
From 6.45. Also with old firmware but from a guy that knows how to drive Siglent X-E FFT. :phew:
OK, so with the latest firmware a good "driver" can achieve a similar update rate to a DSO Quad by reducing the memory depth to 2.8kpts and the FFT to 2048 points. Got it.
[attachimg=1]
Even so, he couldn't sort out the sloping noise floor or the weird cone shaped "peaks".
Even so, he couldn't sort out the sloping noise floor or the weird cone shaped "peaks".
This may be an accurate evaluation of the applied signal.
Images taken from this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-fft-frequency-centering/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-fft-frequency-centering/)
Going by those this one must be broken :P
Even so, he couldn't sort out the sloping noise floor or the weird cone shaped "peaks".
This may be an accurate evaluation of the applied signal.
Maybe, but it's not the only place I've seen it, eg. Here's a comparison with a Picoscope:
Picoscope:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-fft-frequency-centering/?action=dlattach;attach=758640;image)
Siglent shows the same signal with cone shaped peaks and sloping noise floor:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-fft-frequency-centering/?action=dlattach;attach=758652;image)
Images taken from this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-fft-frequency-centering/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-fft-frequency-centering/)
FFT Resolution Bandwidth is too low, try increasing capture time.I agree. I'd assume this is a setting somewhere that limits the FFT length; the length of the capture is more than enough.
Or just zoomed out a lot and half the first peak cropped off to hide it...
Or just zoomed out a lot and half the first peak cropped off to hide it...
Well then, from your post above, half the PicoScope first peak must be 'cropped off' to hide something...
???
The reason I'm not buying the 1013d is that I am thinking about buying a Siglent 1202X-E. It's available though German shops and I will have a more mature product, higher bandwidth, etc.
In fact, I wonder whether one could not simply build a professional scope (like a Siglent 1202X) with a larger screen and an extended version of such a user interface. Fine tuning could be implemented with sliders that are displayed on demand. Coarse adjustments would continue to be simple touch gestures. This 1013d seems to lack two finger gestures. Using those could yield additional improvement of the touch interface.
The reason I'm not buying the 1013d is that I am thinking about buying a Siglent 1202X-E. It's available though German shops and I will have a more mature product, higher bandwidth, etc.
Another drawback of the 1013d is the battery and the power via USB.
Given the rating (5V 2A), it will be hard to find a proper charger. Also, I do not trust the USB charger than comes with it. Better would have been USB PD via USB-C. Then I could have used a notebook USB-C charger or a USB-C PD power bank. 4 hours of usage on battery after charging it for 4 hours is great. Also, having it connected to the power 24/7 while it's standing on my desk seems like a bad idea. The battery will probably suffer, and, as I said, i don't trust the charger. Does it have a mini or micro USB plug?
Same form factor and touchscreen as a 1013D, more powerful than a Siglent.
OK, a bit more expensive than the Siglent but if that's what you're after then it's worth saving up a little bit more.
QuoteOK, a bit more expensive than the Siglent but if that's what you're after then it's worth saving up a little bit more.
A good bit more expensive.
Could you measure the resistance between the two BNC shieldings?
Looking at the pictures, it appears to me that the shielding of the input BNC connectors are actually not grounded. ???
Could you measure the resistance between the two BNC shieldings?
I bet it's ~= 0 Ohms...
Could you measure the resistance between the two BNC shieldings?
I bet it's ~= 0 Ohms...
Yes it is.
So, have you received your 1013d yet? And what's your verdict?
Quick overview, same as what others have seen;
Three of us at work bought them, none of them can be regarded 100MHz scopes. Even using HP 500MHz @10:1 probes (just to make sure its not an issues with the supplied probes), the highest frequency you will see is about 85MHz with a sine input before its starts showing nonsense (signal starts looking like its modulated/unstable), and its attenuated quite a bit.
At my most optimistic I would say its a 40MHz scope.
Quick overview, same as what others have seen;
Three of us at work bought them, none of them can be regarded 100MHz scopes. Even using HP 500MHz @10:1 probes (just to make sure its not an issues with the supplied probes), the highest frequency you will see is about 85MHz with a sine input before its starts showing nonsense (signal starts looking like its modulated/unstable), and its attenuated quite a bit.
At my most optimistic I would say its a 40MHz scope.
That makes perfect sense for a 100Mhz sample rate. Nyquist will be at 50Mhz and that's your maximum frquency, but Nyquist is a very theoretical thing and requires an infinitely wide filter to get the original signal back.
On any practical device you'll start to get artifacts that look like AM as you approach Nyquist, this is due to the samples moving in and out of phase with the peaks and zero crossings in the signal.
The highest frequency you can hope to see correctly will be approx Nyquist/1.25 which just happens to be 40MHz. Bingo! Math, it works. :popcorn:
I'm still mulling over whether to get one of these. OTOH it might be better to sell my Rigol DS1054Z and put the money towards a Micsig.
One question: How shiny are the screens on these? The screens on Micsigs look awfully shiny in videos. I hate that.
I would claim that the scope cannot display a 85MHz sine wave, if the sampling frequency is 100MSa/s. You need at least 2 samples per period of the sine wave. I conclude that this a 200MSa/s scope. But of course, results start degrading much earlier than samplefreq/2. Hence, the results starts becoming unreasonable above 40MHz (which would mean 5 samples per sine wave).
Anyhow, a Mini DS213 has a 100MSa/s samplerate, the price is higher, the display is smaller, and it has no touch screen. So maybe the 1013d is a reasonable choice for its price point?
As for the screen, its shiny, as shiny as the Micsig for all intents and purposes.
1013D doesn't have 1GSa/s!!!Yes, we know that already.
But the way, I made that screenshots of internal parts on the first page...I don't understand. You say 100MSa/s, then 100MHz, and then you conclude with 200Ma/s per channel! That doesn't workout. Do you mean 200MSa/s for both channels (meaning 100MSa/s per channel)?
name of ADC IC is erased, but by pinout can see that this is AD9288-100MSa/s
(also frequency on ENC(A,B) pins is 100MHz).
so the real rate is 200MSa/s on each channel!!!
1013D doesn't have 1GSa/s!!!Yes, we know that already.But the way, I made that screenshots of internal parts on the first page...I don't understand. You say 100MSa/s, then 100MHz, and then you conclude with 200Ma/s per channel! That doesn't workout. Do you mean 200MSa/s for both channels (meaning 100MSa/s per channel)?
name of ADC IC is erased, but by pinout can see that this is AD9288-100MSa/s
(also frequency on ENC(A,B) pins is 100MHz).
so the real rate is 200MSa/s on each channel!!!
As far as I understand ENCA/B defined the sample rate of the ADC. How can the scope reconstruct and show a sine wave of up to 85MHz with only 100MSa/s per channel? That's a mathematical impossibility.
If you measured ENCA/B, that rules our the possibility that they "overclock" the ADCs. Is there a variant of the AD9288 that samples on both edges of ENCA/B?
interleavingThat makes sense. So it's two 100MSa/s ADCs interleaved for both channels giving us 200MSa/s.
interleavingThat makes sense. So it's two 100MSa/s ADCs interleaved for both channels giving us 200MSa/s.
So that explains why things go really bad above 85 MHz.
So following the 1:5 rule, the 1013d is a 40MHz scope.
The reason I'm not buying the 1013d is that I am thinking about buying a Siglent 1202X-E. It's available though German shops and I will have a more mature product, higher bandwidth, etc.
Have you seen the Micsig tablets?
Same form factor and touchscreen as a 1013D, more powerful than a Siglent.
https://micsig.aliexpress.com/store/group/Tablet-Oscilloscope/1293611_509734614.html (https://micsig.aliexpress.com/store/group/Tablet-Oscilloscope/1293611_509734614.html)
OK, a bit more expensive than the Siglent but if that's what you're after then it's worth saving up a little bit more.
I have one.
Same lame interleaved sampling AD9288 100MS/s ADC
Same lame interleaved sampling AD9288 100MS/s ADCThat perfectly fits the observation that the signal goes to hell above 40MHz but it's a MASSIVE lie by the manufacturers.
A new low for testgear number exaggeration/inflation?
Yep. It's 200MS/s actually as both ADC's in the one chip are clocked out of phase, same signal goes into both ADC channels.
Still a dual channel 20MHz 7" touch screen portable tablet scope for $140 isn't bad.
It's still 200MSa/s as explained above. Multiplying by two just because you have two channels doesn't make any sense. Yes, some scopes have 1GSa/s when using one channel and only 500MSa/s when using two channels, but this scope has 200MSa/s regardless of how many channels you use. At least that's what I understood so far. And the "marketing" is off by a factor of 5, which is pretty big lie that's totally unnecessary.Yep. It's 200MS/s actually as both ADC's in the one chip are clocked out of phase, same signal goes into both ADC channels.Is it one chip per channel (the two unmarked chips at bottom right)?
If so that's "400MSamples/sec" - nothing to be ashamed of but I don't see anybody advertising that number. They all have numbers that start with a "1".
Yep. It's 200MS/s actually as both ADC's in the one chip are clocked out of phase, same signal goes into both ADC channels.Is it one chip per channel (the two unmarked chips at bottom right)?
If so that's "400MSamples/sec" - nothing to be ashamed of but I don't see anybody advertising that number. They all have numbers that start with a "1".
Yes, one dual ADC per channel. As far as I see, no way to combine 4 ADC's for one channel.
Without a battery, the MCU should go into boot mode (this is implemented in the circuit), but it does not seem to work.
There is no way to update the firmware.If true, that would be sad.
What do you mean by "without a battery" ? Does it mean, that you disconnect the battery and power this device via USB only?Yes, it is...
Still a dual channel 20MHz 7" touch screen portable tablet scope for $140 isn't bad.
Without a battery, the MCU should go into boot mode (this is implemented in the circuit), but it does not seem to work.
There is no way to update the firmware.
Seriously , updates for a thing that was made like a toy with big hardware limitations ...
In looking at the signals I deal with (hobbyist electronics and automotive stuff) the 50 mv/div sensitivity is not really an issue.It's marginal though when using a 10x probe as we do for most stuff.
In looking at the signals I deal with (hobbyist electronics and automotive stuff) the 50 mv/div sensitivity is not really an issue.It's marginal though when using a 10x probe as we do for most stuff.
In looking at the signals I deal with (hobbyist electronics and automotive stuff) the 50 mv/div sensitivity is not really an issue.It's marginal though when using a 10x probe as we do for most stuff.
That is so...
We shall see, the good news is that if it is not a useful tool for any reason (even if the novelty wears off and it's no longer "fun") it can go back to Amazon within 30 days--for the simple and indisputable fact that it does not meet the published specs....
In looking at the signals I deal with (hobbyist electronics and automotive stuff) the 50 mv/div sensitivity is not really an issue.It's marginal though when using a 10x probe as we do for most stuff.
That is so...
We shall see, the good news is that if it is not a useful tool for any reason (even if the novelty wears off and it's no longer "fun") it can go back to Amazon within 30 days--for the simple and indisputable fact that it does not meet the published specs....
That's like sending a 100MHz scope back to Amazon because it can't measure 500MHz properly. I just bought one of these scopes and whilst it's not perfect I do find that I use it when the other scopes are tied up. Because it is portable and easy on the battery it is a great portable scope I can throw in the car anytime. Much cheaper than buying a battery for the TDS3000 ;) Hopefully they will offer some firmware upgrades and allow the auto triggering level detection to be switched on or off. Like Dave said it is essentially,limited to 20MHz but that is fine with me for a general purpose portable scope for measuring audio and power stuff ;)
cheers
Nope, 500mV/div max sensitivity using a 10x probe is just inadequate for many requirements.In looking at the signals I deal with (hobbyist electronics and automotive stuff) the 50 mv/div sensitivity is not really an issue.It's marginal though when using a 10x probe as we do for most stuff.
That is so...
We shall see, the good news is that if it is not a useful tool for any reason (even if the novelty wears off and it's no longer "fun") it can go back to Amazon within 30 days--for the simple and indisputable fact that it does not meet the published specs....
That's like sending a 100MHz scope back to Amazon because it can't measure 500MHz properly.
Nope, 500mV/div max sensitivity using a 10x probe is just inadequate for many requirements.
In looking at the signals I deal with (hobbyist electronics and automotive stuff) the 50 mv/div sensitivity is not really an issue.It's marginal though when using a 10x probe as we do for most stuff.
That is so...
We shall see, the good news is that if it is not a useful tool for any reason (even if the novelty wears off and it's no longer "fun") it can go back to Amazon within 30 days--for the simple and indisputable fact that it does not meet the published specs....
That's like sending a 100MHz scope back to Amazon because it can't measure 500MHz properly. I just bought one of these scopes and whilst it's not perfect I do find that I use it when the other scopes are tied up. Because it is portable and easy on the battery it is a great portable scope I can throw in the car anytime. Much cheaper than buying a battery for the TDS3000 ;) Hopefully they will offer some firmware upgrades and allow the auto triggering level detection to be switched on or off. Like Dave said it is essentially,limited to 20MHz but that is fine with me for a general purpose portable scope for measuring audio and power stuff ;)
cheers
Not at all; it would be sending back an oscilloscope claimed (by the vendor via Amazon) to have a 100 MHz bandwidth, 1 Gs/s sample rate and <3 ns risetime:
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/TestEquipment/FNIRSI-Claims-00.jpg)
that does not...
If they make their code open source...
It need a small silicone protection and a more expensive 50 € model with real 500 MSa/s
Nope, 500mV/div max sensitivity using a 10x probe is just inadequate for many requirements.In looking at the signals I deal with (hobbyist electronics and automotive stuff) the 50 mv/div sensitivity is not really an issue.It's marginal though when using a 10x probe as we do for most stuff.
That is so...
We shall see, the good news is that if it is not a useful tool for any reason (even if the novelty wears off and it's no longer "fun") it can go back to Amazon within 30 days--for the simple and indisputable fact that it does not meet the published specs....
That's like sending a 100MHz scope back to Amazon because it can't measure 500MHz properly.
If they make their code open source...
If only...It need a small silicone protection and a more expensive 50 € model with real 500 MSa/s
I'm thinking the next generation of these could be awesome.
I just bought one too :palm:
Even with all the lies, bugs and limitations, I find the concept to be excellent.
I sometimes need to "see something" in hard to reach places or when I am not in the lab.
When we just need to see if the clock signal is here or if we have our RS422 pairs at the right place, no need for the big 5000€ scope balanced on the crimping pliers.
The fact that we can increase the battery capacity is great, the big 7" screen is also great, no fan. I hesitated with a handled oscilloscope but I find them very expensive.
If I like the concept, I think it will lead me to buy a Micsig tablet oscilloscope but the small form factor of this little Fnirsi is very very nice.
If they make their code open source, they can sell millions, I think.
It need a small silicone protection and a more expensive 50 € model with real 500 MSa/s
If the improvement over the original bar of soap scope is anything to go by then the next model could be a very serious proposition and this company whoever they may be could become a serious contender in the portable scope market ;)
5.7" display and BW's to 200 MHz and some with 1000V CAT II isolation between channels, all 5 mV sensitivity AND a datasheet that can be trusted !Nope, 500mV/div max sensitivity using a 10x probe is just inadequate for many requirements.In looking at the signals I deal with (hobbyist electronics and automotive stuff) the 50 mv/div sensitivity is not really an issue.It's marginal though when using a 10x probe as we do for most stuff.
That is so...
We shall see, the good news is that if it is not a useful tool for any reason (even if the novelty wears off and it's no longer "fun") it can go back to Amazon within 30 days--for the simple and indisputable fact that it does not meet the published specs....
That's like sending a 100MHz scope back to Amazon because it can't measure 500MHz properly.
OK what has siglent got to offer with battery operated, dual channel, 7 inch 800x480 full color touch sensitive display etc ?? And not some iddy biddy 3 inch QVGA BS either !!
What you got ??
cheers
OK what has siglent got to offer with battery operated, dual channel, 7 inch 800x480 full color touch sensitive display etc ??5.7" display and BW's to 200 MHz and some with 1000V CAT II isolation between channels, all 5 mV sensitivity AND a datasheet that can be trusted !
5.7" display and BW's to 200 MHz and some with 1000V CAT II isolation between channels, all 5 mV sensitivity AND a datasheet that can be trusted !Nope, 500mV/div max sensitivity using a 10x probe is just inadequate for many requirements.In looking at the signals I deal with (hobbyist electronics and automotive stuff) the 50 mv/div sensitivity is not really an issue.It's marginal though when using a 10x probe as we do for most stuff.
That is so...
We shall see, the good news is that if it is not a useful tool for any reason (even if the novelty wears off and it's no longer "fun") it can go back to Amazon within 30 days--for the simple and indisputable fact that it does not meet the published specs....
That's like sending a 100MHz scope back to Amazon because it can't measure 500MHz properly.
OK what has siglent got to offer with battery operated, dual channel, 7 inch 800x480 full color touch sensitive display etc ?? And not some iddy biddy 3 inch QVGA BS either !!
What you got ??
cheers
Nothing flash at all but they work as per their spec.
And you don't think 50 mV max sensitivity is piss poor ? :-//
Siglent SHS800 are battery powered.
This is the first model I looked at when I wanted a portable oscilloscope. But it is too big to be operated by hand, and too expensive as a "small portable bench scope".
The Micsig seems very interesting but too advanced for what I wanted to do.
There is also the Hantek 2C72 but the FNIRSI does just the right thing, 2 channels, large screen and large battery.
This thing cannot and should not be compared to the Siglent or Micsig offer.
And cannot and should not be used as a real scope or to replace a real oscilloscope.
It's just a cheap portable tool that allows you to take measurements very usefull in certain situations.
If the improvement over the original bar of soap scope is anything to go by then the next model could be a very serious proposition and this company whoever they may be could become a serious contender in the portable scope market ;)
The only reason I haven't bought one of these is that if I sell my Rigol DS1054Z and add $140 to the result (the cost of one of these) I'm in Micsig territory. A Micsig would make a lot more sense.
Plus Micsigs have a 4-channel option and I want 4-channel capability somewhere.
(OTOH I've got an Analog Discovery 2 on order so the 4-channel requirement might disappear when that arrives)
I have a 1054z tied up doing I2C decoding so this scope becomes useful for the other measurements when I don't want to boot up the Tek TDS7054 all of the time !
Got mine yesterday evening, haven't "played with it" a lot yet (it is for certain a toy) of course. However I can confirm the following (in no special order):So all that said, and as what I will likely use it for (automotive, motorcycles, etc.) does not require an X10 probe or 100 MHz bandwidth, I think I will keep it. It's portability alone makes it a worthwhile tool. I's too bad the makers feel they need to lie about it's specs.
- It is as cute as a bug's ear;
- The capacitive touch screen UI is quite nice, responsive and nicely configured;
- It triggers properly on aperiodic bursts usin 5 bursts of a 1 MHz pulse at a 100 kHz repetition rate.
- It does not have a usable bandwidth of anywhere near 100 MHz;
- In X10 mode and mucking about with the probe's compensation I found I could create an incredibly non-linear "peaky as hell' response that might perhaps pass a 100 MHz signal--this may be how the rice-burners that market it justify their "100 MHz" and "< 3ns" claims;
- It is as cute as a bug's ear;
- In X10 mode the vertical input characteristics are different at each sensitivity setting--making X10 mode even more useless;
- The FFT math function does nothing but provide a vertically constrained, fixed position, non-calibrated, non-adjustable, clipped off at the top picture of the waveform's spectral content--it is more annoying than useful;
- The battery seems quite capable of meeting the 4 hour runtime claim;
- The user manual is horrid, tiny, incomplete and obviously written by someone with an only partial command of the English language;
- It is as cute as a bug's ear;
- The -3 dB bandwidth in X1 mode (using just a 50 Ω BNC patch cable) is 20 MHz;
- I have no way of measuring the sample rate, however I seriously doubt it is 1 Gs/s;
- Within it's real capabilities the display is very nice;
- It runs well when charging via the supplied wall wart, however when connected to the USB charging station also powering my function generator or my desktop computer it goes haywire--some ground loop issue I suspect;
- It is as cute as a bug's ear;
- Mine is branded Yeapook, though in the Amazon ad copy it was shown as being FNIRSI;
Did I mention it is as cute as a bug's ear?
Would you mind dumping the winbond SPI flash and posting it here? It would definitely help with reverse engineering it! I've ordered one but it's coming on a human-powered boat from China...
I just bought one too :palm:
Even with all the lies, bugs and limitations, I find the concept to be excellent.
I sometimes need to "see something" in hard to reach places or when I am not in the lab.
When we just need to see if the clock signal is here or if we have our RS422 pairs at the right place, no need for the big 5000€ scope balanced on the crimping pliers.
The fact that we can increase the battery capacity is great, the big 7" screen is also great, no fan. I hesitated with a handled oscilloscope but I find them very expensive.
If I like the concept, I think it will lead me to buy a Micsig tablet oscilloscope but the small form factor of this little Fnirsi is very very nice.
If they make their code open source, they can sell millions, I think.
It need a small silicone protection and a more expensive 50 € model with real 500 MSa/s
Would you mind dumping the winbond SPI flash and posting it here? It would definitely help with reverse engineering it! I've ordered one but it's coming on a human-powered boat from China...
I would be pleased to; how do I go about doing so? What do I need?
Would you mind dumping the winbond SPI flash and posting it here? It would definitely help with reverse engineering it! I've ordered one but it's coming on a human-powered boat from China...
I would be pleased to; how do I go about doing so? What do I need?
Awesome! You'll need a CH341A (preferred) or a Raspberry Pi (any model) or, as a last resource, a blue pill board.
If you don't own any of those devices you could order the CH341A on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-USB-Programmer-CH341A-Burner-Chip-Writer-SOP-Clip-Adapter-EEPROM-BIOS-FLAS/233635841518 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-USB-Programmer-CH341A-Burner-Chip-Writer-SOP-Clip-Adapter-EEPROM-BIOS-FLAS/233635841518)), but in that case I think it's not worth it as I'd probably get my device before you get the programmer. However, if the open-source firmware comes along nicely and you want to flash it, you'll need one of those devices too, so it's not wasted money ;)
In case you own a CH341A, you will need to connect it to the SPI memory and dump it using the provided software.
In case of using a Raspberry Pi, a software called "flashrom" can be used to use the GPIO as the interface to the SPI chip. (https://www.flashrom.org/RaspberryPi (https://www.flashrom.org/RaspberryPi))
With the blue pill board it's more tricky to do.
In all cases, the CPU will need to be held in a reset state in order to free the SPI bus for the programmer to use it. The only other way is physically de soldering the SPI chip from the board.
PD: To hold the CPU in reset, pin 70 needs to be shorted to GND. There's a convenient pad attached to it (https://prnt.sc/tjxfnl (https://prnt.sc/tjxfnl)).
Would you mind dumping the winbond SPI flash and posting it here? It would definitely help with reverse engineering it! I've ordered one but it's coming on a human-powered boat from China...
I would be pleased to; how do I go about doing so? What do I need?
Awesome! You'll need a CH341A (preferred) or a Raspberry Pi (any model) or, as a last resource, a blue pill board.
If you don't own any of those devices you could order the CH341A on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-USB-Programmer-CH341A-Burner-Chip-Writer-SOP-Clip-Adapter-EEPROM-BIOS-FLAS/233635841518 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-USB-Programmer-CH341A-Burner-Chip-Writer-SOP-Clip-Adapter-EEPROM-BIOS-FLAS/233635841518)), but in that case I think it's not worth it as I'd probably get my device before you get the programmer. However, if the open-source firmware comes along nicely and you want to flash it, you'll need one of those devices too, so it's not wasted money ;)
In case you own a CH341A, you will need to connect it to the SPI memory and dump it using the provided software.
In case of using a Raspberry Pi, a software called "flashrom" can be used to use the GPIO as the interface to the SPI chip. (https://www.flashrom.org/RaspberryPi (https://www.flashrom.org/RaspberryPi))
With the blue pill board it's more tricky to do.
In all cases, the CPU will need to be held in a reset state in order to free the SPI bus for the programmer to use it. The only other way is physically de soldering the SPI chip from the board.
PD: To hold the CPU in reset, pin 70 needs to be shorted to GND. There's a convenient pad attached to it (https://prnt.sc/tjxfnl (https://prnt.sc/tjxfnl)).
I do not buy from China via eBay, having been stung too many times after waiting weeks on end. I do see what looks like the same device on Amazon for $8.88 w/ Prime shipping (https://www.amazon.com/Gikfun-Programmer-CH341A-Burner-EEPROM/dp/B01I1EU9LG/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=USB+Programmer+CH341A&qid=1595034129&sr=8-5)
Amazon does not vet it's vendors as well as they could/should, eBay is worse!
I have a CP2102 based USB to TTL interface I have used to update firmware on a JYETech DSO112A. I wonder if that could work, however to be honest as my Parkinson's has advanced over the last year I have become less confident about mucking about on SMD boards with a soldering iron, I would hate to brick my new $160 toy (SWMBO would kill me)...
I will do some research any see if it's something I feel comfortable jumping in to...
The one in Amazon is the same, but it does not come with the clip connector which is useful in these situations.
That said, there's no smd soldering involved! FNIRSI were kind enough to give us access to all the pins required with standard 2.54mm pin headers (https://prnt.sc/tjxzwj (https://prnt.sc/tjxzwj)). However, I completely understand that you don't want to risk it and kill your brand new oscilloscope :P
That's okay, I'll do it myself when I receive mine, and post full pinouts for every (unpopulated) header in the board, for future reference.
Thanks for the interest!
I just ordered one from Amazon, with the clip connector and some other physical interface devices ($13.58, this one (https://www.amazon.com/AiTrip-EEPROM-Programmer-CH341A-Adapter/dp/B07VNVVXW6/ref=sr_1_24?dchild=1&keywords=USB+Programmer+CH341A&qid=1595037248&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&rnid=2470954011&rps=1&s=electronics&sr=1-24)). Supposed to be here Monday (evening is when we get deliveries out here "in the county").
I'll see what I can figure out then...
The only thing you will need to solder is a jumper from the pin 70 header to GND, to keep the CPU in reset mode.
That said, there's no smd soldering involved! FNIRSI were kind enough to give us access to all the pins required with standard 2.54mm pin headers (https://prnt.sc/tjxzwj (https://prnt.sc/tjxzwj)).
Looks like there's a GND hole without solder mask 2.54 millimeters to the left of that.
The only thing you will need to solder is a jumper from the pin 70 header to GND, to keep the CPU in reset mode.
Looks like there's a GND hole without solder mask 2.54 millimeters to theleftright of that.
From the looks of it, that's not GND... This is a (low-res) picture of the underside:
[...] Also, @cliffyk, could you take some clear pictures of the LCD ribbon cable and the Touchscreen IC chip? We need to identify them to write their drivers in the Linux Kernel. [...]
[...] Also, @cliffyk, could you take some clear pictures of the LCD ribbon cable and the Touchscreen IC chip? We need to identify them to write their drivers in the Linux Kernel. [...]
[...] Seeing how quick it boots, I'd think it isn't booting uboot then linux, but maybe, perhaps xboot? + rt-thread, and also the simple UI may as well be littlevGL. [...]
It's not going to be easy, first you've got to be sure you can reverse engineer the interface with the fpga, because without that you're not going anywhere.
P.D. the lichee nano (an F1C100S with a Linux) is $6 at seeedstudio.
I know, very cheap! I have a Lichee Pi Zero which is quite similar, but a bit more powerful.
I know, very cheap! I have a Lichee Pi Zero which is quite similar, but a bit more powerful.
But that's an S3 (V3s?), right?
Yeah, I'll have to either reverse engineer the interface with the FPGA, or program the FPGA myself (which is my plan!). I'll of course back up all the SPI memories to be able to restore the scope to factory defaults. The main reason of buying this scope was to write full open-source code for it.
Yeah, I'll have to either reverse engineer the interface with the FPGA, or program the FPGA myself (which is my plan!). I'll of course back up all the SPI memories to be able to restore the scope to factory defaults. The main reason of buying this scope was to write full open-source code for it.
I'm very interested to see how this goes. I started work on open source for an Instek GDS-2000E but then killed the scope in an accident. I'm trying to get a price on replacing the main board.
Have Fun!
Reg
Has anyone investigated the USB port to see if one can get access via that? I just learned about these recently. I've watched a couple of reviews by Dave and another chap, but not read through all the posts here.
If you can go higher please plot values for a sine wave as I did today in the Rigol DS1202Z-E thread.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1202z-e-entry-level-scope-(200mhz-2-channel)/msg3143092/#msg3143092 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1202z-e-entry-level-scope-(200mhz-2-channel)/msg3143092/#msg3143092)
That will give a much better idea of the usable BW. For a lot of uses such as HF RF work they seem to be pretty viable even with the attenuation and aliasing at higher frequencies.
Have Fun!
Reg
Hey, I just worked out how to turn off the auto triggering level. It's in the system menu |O This scope just got a lot better :-+
34 MHz (3.47 Vpp -3.24 dB)
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/TestEquipment/Yeapook/34MHz-00.jpg)
So, there it is -3 dB @ 33 to 34 MHz with alligator clips! Not too shabby,,,
Note that the square-wave on CH2 (X1 mode via a 50 Ω patch cable) turned to crap at > 10 MHz, which actually validates the 30+ MHz bandwidth...
Hey, I just worked out how to turn off the auto triggering level. It's in the system menu |O This scope just got a lot better :-+
The menu system is weird. It's also where you set / unset the FFT function. A somewhat bizarre FFT, too...
Did you figure out the fast/slow setting near the top that changes responsiveness to the (single-point) screen movement? The single-tap on the left or right on screen to alter the time-base. (I could not figure this out for ages... gah!)
It has very basic functionality and works adequately within those limitations. The vertical accuracy on mine is way off, though, so you should check that against something else if you intend on believing what it claims.
My results seemed a little better: this is 3 Vpp at 50 kHz and 50 MHz, ~2.3 dB down. I was using a calibrator with active heads directly Cabling can cause lots of degradation, and alligator clips is not ideal for high frequency.
I'll send $20 US via PayPal to the first person to post a FW dump.
Ohh, so the "3ns rise time" looks more like "30ns rise time", LOL. What a waste. It's a pity because @200MSps that could look much much better with a decent front end. Maybe the software of this one is the least of the problems.
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/TestEquipment/Yeapook/10MHz-00.jpg)
Ohh, so the "3ns rise time" looks more like "30ns rise time", LOL. What a waste. It's a pity because @200MSps that could look much much better with a decent front end. Maybe the software of this one is the least of the problems.
Can anybody post a "dots" display mode of that WF, so we can count the dots?
Would you mind dumping the winbond SPI flash and posting it here?attached...
You'll need a CH341A (preferred)...This is totally shit programmer...
It appears to be an AD9288:Yep, I said it before...
I'm guessing that the last is a reference to merging all 4 channels into one. So there may be variants which implement that.They don't have hardware support to merge all 4 channels into one...
Does anyone have a disassembler for the chip?IDA Pro, Ghidra... it is ARM9 core
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/TestEquipment/Yeapook/10MHz-00.jpg)
Ohh, so the "3ns rise time" looks more like "30ns rise time", LOL. What a waste. It's a pity because @200MSps that could look much much better with a decent front end. Maybe the software of this one is the least of the problems.
Can anybody post a "dots" display mode of that WF, so we can count the dots?
Personally I can not understand at all why so small amount of noise and ranting is about this "1GSa/s 100MHz" total hoax - fraud. Totally shameful outrageous scam if it is just as in Dave's video and HW is like displayed and if it is true what ADC there is.
Does anyone have a disassembler for the chip?IDA Pro, Ghidra... it is ARM9 core
0030ba0: f001 bde8 0000 a0e3 0082 bde8 1cd0 8de2 ................
0030bb0: f001 bde8 0100 a0e3 0082 bde8 0060 7380 .............`s.
0030bc0: 01ff ff00 01ff ff80 7377 6974 6368 2069 ........switch i
0030bd0: 6e74 6f20 6869 6768 2073 7065 6564 206d nto high speed m
0030be0: 6f64 6520 2121 210d 0a00 0000 04e0 2de5 ode !!!.......-.
0030bf0: 8bdf 4de2 0120 a0e3 ac10 8fe2 0d00 a0e1 ..M.. ..........004d330: e13f a0e3 b0c0 d0e1 9b00 5ce3 1900 009a .?........\.....
004d340: 0110 81e2 0c20 82e0 0118 c1e3 1800 00ea ..... ..........
004d350: ccaf 1880 506c 6561 7365 2069 6e73 6572 ....Please inser
004d360: 7420 7465 7374 2063 6c69 7020 616e 6420 t test clip and
004d370: 7072 6573 7320 4f4b 2074 6f20 636f 6e74 press OK to cont
004d380: 696e 7565 2021 0000 9ced 1880 5901 0000 inue !......Y...
004d390: 4f4b 0000 7227 1980 58cd 1980 02b8 1a80 OK..r'..X.......
004d3a0: cdcc 0000 72cf 1a80 0180 8be2 0ca0 8ae0 ....r...........
004d3b0: 01b8 c8e3 0130 53e2 0200 80e2 dcff ff1a .....0S.........
attached...
This is totally shit programmer...
Who assured that the FW is only the SPI mem contents?
I realized that Dave thought it was an AD9288, but the chips had been sanded off. My point was confirmation from the binary image.
Does anyone recognize the filesystem? It doesn't appear to be UBI which is the only flash filesystem I have any familiarity with, and that is *very* little.
Does it come with an SDCard or is the SD slot empty?
"F1C100S XiaoTaoQi Disk 1.0" inside.
The F1C100s has no internal memory, only RAM, so it must be in flash. Normally they run Linux, but in this case they must be using something else (somebody suggested XBoot paired with other software). It makes sense as the flash chip is only 2MB, Linux won't fit in there.
Does it come with an SDCard or is the SD slot empty?It comes with a 2GB SDCard I think.
Personally I can not understand at all why so small amount of noise and ranting is about this "1GSa/s 100MHz" total hoax - fraud. Totally shameful outrageous scam if it is just as in Dave's video and HW is like displayed and if it is true what ADC there is.
Are you in a position to do anything about it?
We're busy hacking it into something useful.
"F1C100S XiaoTaoQi Disk 1.0" inside.
https://linux-sunxi.org/images/b/ba/F1C100s_Datasheet_V1.0.pdf (https://linux-sunxi.org/images/b/ba/F1C100s_Datasheet_V1.0.pdf)
There is a big part that looks obfuscated (starting around offset 0x184C80).
Does it come with an SDCard or is the SD slot empty?
It comes with a 2GB SDCard I think.
It comes with a 2GB SDCard I think.
Might as well be booting from there, then, no?
I did not find the string in the datasheet. The apparently obfuscated part may be the FPGA bitstream. However, there is a string "Encrypt" in the image.
The F1C200s is the same as F1C100s, but with double the RAM. All the registers are the same, so this user manual applies to our chip too:
https://www.thirtythreeforty.net/posts/2020/02/trying-the-allwinner-f1c200s/Allwinner_F1C200s_User_Manual_V1.1.pdf (https://www.thirtythreeforty.net/posts/2020/02/trying-the-allwinner-f1c200s/Allwinner_F1C200s_User_Manual_V1.1.pdf)
It contains all the CPU and Peripherals registers and descriptions about them. Might be useful to use with Ghidra.
Does it come with an SDCard or is the SD slot empty?
It comes with a 2GB SDCard I think.
Mine came with a SanDisk 1 GB card...
Does it boot w/o the card? Can you have a look and tell us what's in the card?
It has 4 blocks:
00000000 - SPL (secondary bootloader)
00006000 - 1st executable (OS part that deals with the SD card)
00013000 - bitmap
00027000 - 2nd executable (main app)
My best guesses ATM.
It has 4 blocks:
00000000 - SPL (secondary bootloader)
00006000 - 1st executable (OS part that deals with the SD card)
00013000 - bitmap
00027000 - 2nd executable (main app)
My best guesses ATM.
ATM? I shudder to think what google will return for that. Can you explain?
...I think something is missing...Something what? there is no another flash... that is a full dump of SPI flash...
Does anyone recognize the filesystem?this is a plain binary file... not filesystem...
There is a big part that looks obfuscated (starting around offset 0x184C80).it is not obfuscated... it is some table... note values coming in ascending order.
it is not obfuscated... it is some table... note values coming in ascending order.
it looks more as a map, unicode characters conversion table.
Can someone post a disassembly?
Does it come with an SDCard or is the SD slot empty?Yep, 1GB... I've tried 32GB (FAT32) working!
...I did read somewhere that the SDCard only contained the screenshots and saved data.Yep, only for screenshots and saved data.
Does it boot w/o the card? Can you have a look and tell us what's in the card? Ideally, partitions, filesystem types, and start blocks too :-)Yep, working without SD... but hangs if you try to save.
No way, it looks obfuscated. There are very few "clear" strings...My 20 years of experience in reverse engineering tells me that this is a table, not a code. But I will know for sure only when I reach that place.
If we can get documentation for the JuTouch library we should have a pretty good grip on it.
My 20 years of experience in reverse engineering tells me that this is a table, not a code. But I will know for sure only when I reach that place.
It is still "as cute as a bug's ear", but it may be going back...
My 5 minutes look at that part shows an incrementing pattern (with contiguous 0x400 bytes size blocks). That doesn't look like a unicode characters conversion table. I could be wrong...Maybe we talk about different places?
But the fpga has another spi flash chip.
It comes with a 2GB SDCard I think.
Might as well be booting from there, then, no?
I still don't have the scope with me, but I did read somewhere that the SDCard only contained the screenshots and saved data.
If that's the case there will be a bit of assembly code that sits in loop incrementing a pointer through that section reading and then writing the contents to the FPGA load address.
But the fpga has another spi flash chip.
I think that's an I2C EEPROM, judging by the two pull-up resistors on two of the pins.
This is strongly suggestive of a bitstream for the FPGA.FPGA has another standalone chip... as wrote @GeorgeOfTheJungle
But the fpga has another spi flash chip.IC which you mark is I2C, name is erased...
Well, maybe, but my point is/was, isn't that the eeprom that contains the fpga bitstream? And if so, it's not going to be in the other eeprom too, right?
But the fpga has another spi flash chip.IC which you mark is I2C, name is erased...
and the IC a little bit left, is also SPI 25P16VP, and connectors on left (6pin top, and 4pin bottom is to program them)
That is almost certainly wrong. The Zynq at least has it's own facility for loading the bitstream from flash.
But the fpga has another spi flash chip.
I think that's an I2C EEPROM, judging by the two pull-up resistors on two of the pins.
Here is the dump of ST 25P16VP... (this is FPGA stream data and connected to dedicated FPGA pins)
I don't think that it is useful for anyone, just let it be for history...
I2C I guess for store settings.
WARNING: the .RBF file has the bytes bit-reversed! Reversing...
FPGA - RBF/RPD (Raw Binary File) - Filesize: 16 777 216 bits (00200000 bytes)
00000000 - Start of File (Type 1)
[00000048 00000021]
Bit 7 - 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111 FFFFFFFFFF
Bit 6 - 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111 FFFFFFFFFF
Bit 5 - 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111 FFFFFFFFFF
Bit 4 - 1111111111111111111111111111111111111111 FFFFFFFFFF
Bit 3 - 1111111111111111111111111110111010000000 FFFFFFEE80
Bit 2 - 0000011100110011001011111000000000111111 07332F803F
Bit 1 - 1100000000000111100011000000010111111111 C0078C05FF
Bit 0 - 0000000000010101000100010110110111111111 0015116DFF
Bits 0080 - EPCS/EPCQ ID check: Enabled
Bits 005F - Stream size: 943 711 bits (0001CCCC bytes) Compression Bit ON (+1) Size NOT OK
Bits 0056 - 0000 0000 : 0x56-0x5D
Bits 004C - Programming Mode: Active Serial (AS x1)
Bits 003B - IDCode (Version+Part Number only): 0x020F1 (-> 0x024F1)
Bits 0008 - Usercode: 0015116D
00000049 - Header CRC-16_MODBUS: 0033 [00000021-00000048] CRC OK
0000004B - Data Framesize: 207 [0000004B-000000F1]
000000F2 - 4-byte words: 1260 [000000F2-000014A1]
00000000 - Stream Size (Uncompressed): 15 610 872 bits
000014A2 - CRC Framesize: 207+0 # Data Frames: 1727 [000014A2-00059D4F]
Start address: 00000000
00059D50 - Post-device bitstream pad bytes (0xFF): 1583407 [00059D50-001DC67E]
File Checksum: 1E469589
What's the architecture I should select?
What's the architecture I should select?
ARM Little endian with the load addresses that I've previously indicated, after stripping the 32 byte headers!
Well, I got Ghidra 9.1.2 to run, but it does not grok ARM V9. So where to from here?
Reg
What's the architecture I should select?
ARM Little endian with the load addresses that I've previously indicated, after stripping the 32 byte headers!
Not clear what you mean by "stripping the 32 byte headers". Could you give a novice a more detailed description?
Once I can decompile the whole thing I should be able to discover quite a lot. I haven't attacked a completely undocumented code in 30 years, but that was how I was introduced to C & Unix. A 5000 line C code which didn't work correctly on a little endian machine. It had 2 comments both of which read
/* handling special cases */
thanks,
Reg
ARM V4T little endianactually
(the 1st 32 bytes of each block are its header) In the header, at offset 0x10, there is the size of the block (including header).addon
SPL has a Load Address = 0x00000000
The executables have a Load Address = 0x80000000
A teaser function in the attached file.
ARM V4T little endianactually
CPU: ARM926EJ-S [41069265] revision 5 (ARMv5TEJ)
https://steward-fu.github.io/website/mcu/lichee-nano/flash_image.htm
ARM V4T little endianactually
CPU: ARM926EJ-S [41069265] revision 5 (ARMv5TEJ)
https://steward-fu.github.io/website/mcu/lichee-nano/flash_image.htm
So, it turns out that 100 Mhz is the "maximum theoretical value" and if you actually want a 100 Mhz bandwidth you should "buy other better oscilloscope, such as TEKTRONIX..."
So, it turns out that 100 Mhz is the "maximum theoretical value" and if you actually want a 100 Mhz bandwidth you should "buy other better oscilloscope, such as TEKTRONIX..."
It's the Nyquist limit of a 200Mhz sample rate and we know it's 200Mhz. :-+
What about their claim of 1GHz sampling? I'd love to see how they spin that.
I don't get why everybody is so angry about it at this price point.
In my country we have a saying about people who start looking the teeth when you're trying to give them a free horse.
False advertising!
In engineering specifications are everything!
If something is specified to be 100MHz and1G samples - it had better be!
False advertising!
In engineering specifications are everything!
If something is specified to be 100MHz and1G samples - it had better be!
That's just a cultural expectation, not a physical law.
I was raised to believe that a man's word was his bond.
I was raised to believe that a man's word was his bond.That has NEVER been true.
Perhaps not in your circles...
Did anyone check if it was capable of 100Mhz?
Or where its limit is?
I was raised to believe that a man's word was his bond.That has NEVER been true.
Perhaps not in your circles...
I was going to respond "Never been in a firefight, have you?". When you tell a brother you "have his back", YOU HAVE HIS GODDAMN BACK!
Has anybody measured the bandwidth in 1x mode?
Here are some results of my testing bandwidth in X1 mode using alligator clips:
10kHz reference (5.04 Vpp):
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/TestEquipment/Yeapook/10kHz-00.jpg)
1 MHz (4.99 Vpp -0.087 dB)
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/TestEquipment/Yeapook/1MHz-00.jpg)
10 MHz (5.39 Vpp +0.58 dB)
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/TestEquipment/Yeapook/10MHz-00.jpg)
20 MHz (4.99 Vpp -0.087 dB)
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/TestEquipment/Yeapook/20MHz-00.jpg)
30 MHz (4.36 Vpp -1.26 dB)
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/TestEquipment/Yeapook/30MHz-00.jpg)
34 MHz (3.47 Vpp -3.24 dB)
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/TestEquipment/Yeapook/34MHz-00.jpg)
So, there it is -3 dB @ 33 to 34 MHz with alligator clips! Not too shabby,,,
Note that the square-wave on CH2 (X1 mode via a 50 Ω patch cable) turned to crap at > 10 MHz, which actually validates the 30+ MHz bandwidth...
I was going to respond "Never been in a firefight, have you?". When you tell a brother you "have his back", YOU HAVE HIS GODDAMN BACK!
I don't think it's a bad thing to have been raised with the phrase "Caveat Emptor" burned into the psyche.
For example, 0xb34e() has an infinite loop following a series of function calls suggesting that it is the main loop when the DSO is running. However, I can't figure out how to walk back up the call tree from there.
I'm certainly impressed by Ghidra. I had not known of it before, so it's been a very valuable education. I can see lots of uses for it, but I think I need to start by analyzing a less complex program.
Hi,
Mine did arrived - Ordered as fnirsi, it comes a "yeapook"... ;)
First look, cute toy, responsive touchscreen...
Here're my results, a couple others checked it as well:
Here're my results, a couple others checked it as well:
Fed in a sinewave with 1Vrms, starting at 1Mhz. Got -3dB (0.707Vrms) at appx 37 Mhz.
Interesting :
Where at frequencies about 10Mhz or more the waveform looks stable, at 1Mhz it´s somekind of "restless" .
For example, 0xb34e() has an infinite loop following a series of function calls suggesting that it is the main loop when the DSO is running. However, I can't figure out how to walk back up the call tree from there.
I'm certainly impressed by Ghidra. I had not known of it before, so it's been a very valuable education. I can see lots of uses for it, but I think I need to start by analyzing a less complex program.
As Morpheus would say: Welcome to the real world.
It would be very interesting to know the origins of this. The obvious presence in the FW of features not supported by the HW suggests someone developed a base design and FW to sell to manufacturers who in turn set the price point by leaving out HW.
Be serious , this is not a company as it should be , just some guys wanting to make easy money lying ... ;D
Be serious , this is not a company as it should be , just some guys wanting to make easy money lying ... ;D
Be serious , this is not a company as it should be , just some guys wanting to make easy money lying ... ;D
In the west we call those people "managers and salesmen".
There's laws that make it make it difficult to sell products with definite numbers on them though so they mostly stick to homeopathic, gluten-free hairloss remedies that help you sleep and tighten up your abs while you use them. ie. Nothing that can be disproved in a court of law.
(either that or investment-grade "collectables" on the shopping channel that can only go up in value in the future...)
Edit: And then there's the Batteroo brothers.
"Franklin Mint" comes to mind...
Has anybody measured the bandwidth in 1x mode?
Didn't read the entire thread did you?
Cute, really cute toy... :D
That measurement was with "alligator clips". I was interested in the bandwidth with the 1x probes. The 1x probes will have some capacitance that will lower the bandwidth.
If we have to use crocodile clips to get the most from this thing then there should be a way to get better results by adding a small amount of capacitance and limiting the bandwidth to something the system can handle.
Cliff, can you select units of Amps in the channel input menu ?
I quite understand and we needed to do maths on the fly with a CRO however most DSO's are able to display waveforms in the units of Amps.Cliff, can you select units of Amps in the channel input menu ?
With my Lecroy's you can select A as he unit and scale the display, but not with this little fella. However I'm pretty good at math and "make believe"...
Hi,
Done the meausure with the probe switching to 1x.
BW decreases to 17.8Mhz
Martin
I quite understand and we needed to do maths on the fly with a CRO however most DSO's are able to display waveforms in the units of Amps.
Another FAIL for FNIRSI. ::)
I quite understand and we needed to do maths on the fly with a CRO however most DSO's are able to display waveforms in the units of Amps.
But the amount of menu-diving required simply isn't worth it.
Another FAIL for FNIRSI. ::)
Yeah, total fail. They totally should have added a whole extra menu just for that. :palm:
We need ask ourselves who might buy this $120 tablet instead of a proper DSO or for that matter a working CRO ?I quite understand and we needed to do maths on the fly with a CRO however most DSO's are able to display waveforms in the units of Amps.
But the amount of menu-diving required simply isn't worth it.Another FAIL for FNIRSI. ::)
Yeah, total fail. They totally should have added a whole extra menu just for that. Not. :palm:
Hi,
Done the meausure with the probe switching to 1x.
BW decreases to 17.8Mhz
Martin
:-+
Not perfect but also not the disaster promised in the manual.
[attachimg=1]
Theoretically we could gain an extra 15Mhz in 1x mode by making a custom probe with just the right amount of capacitance, but... you'd only need that when you want 50mV/division.
The overlap in the Venn diagram isn't big enough to not bother, IMHO. People who want that would probably be using a real oscilloscope anyway.
That first statement in the manual's red-flagged "Solemn reminder" section ("The bandwidth of the 1x probe file is 5 MHz,...") may be so with regard to the supplied probe in 1X mode, however I got out to 34 MHz at -3 dB, with alligator clips on the end of 16" of 50 Ω cable.
Theoretically we could gain an extra 15Mhz in 1x mode by making a custom probe ...
That first statement in the manual's red-flagged "Solemn reminder" section ("The bandwidth of the 1x probe file is 5 MHz,...") may be so with regard to the supplied probe in 1X mode, however I got out to 34 MHz at -3 dB, with alligator clips on the end of 16" of 50 Ω cable.
It's all about capacitance.
You can get the same bandwidth by switching the probe to 10x mode, you just lose the 50mV range.
(because the x10 probe has a 10:1 voltage divider hidden inside it).
There'll be a compromise in between the two, which is what you're doing with your clips, but I suspect most people won't bother. It's nice to know it's there but the difference in bandwidth isn't huge (you're not getting the promised 100Mhz or anywhere close)
Doing such a scope with a multimedia chip is another example of ingenuity and its developers surely did their best. Once again, I don't think it can be improved much more.
I wonder why did they put a front end so slow when the digitizer runs @ 200MSa/s? It's not a good fit. Perhaps the guy was better at digital than analog? It happened to Woz all time.
There goes the neighborhood... you up the proc, you up the price. It's a fine balance. You have to put the limit somewhere.
Do you think it would have been so much more expensive?
Do you think it would have been so much more expensive?
I think so. When we are at this scale of "upscaling/modding", any small change in any part of the chain might force big € increments in the rest of the chain / total redesign. But, of course, IMHO.
If R12 is reduced to 10-22 Ohm, the frequency response at the HF will become flat to 100 MHz.
If you increase C2, it will level out at the low frequency response.
I don't understand why people are so shocked by the lies and the performance of this oscilloscope.
I don't understand why people are so shocked by the lies and the performance of this oscilloscope.I'm not shocked!
if you have 150$...
Playing around with the stb-3 board :
[attachimg=1]
The demo board provides a variety of testsignals, ideal for doing a quick "overall" test on new scopes.
Sinewaves, squarewaves, pwm, runt, glitch, modulation, eres and several serial bus signals.
And inbetween it´s limitations, the scope performed well.
PWM signals are no problem:
[attachimg=2]
Runt and glitch pulses....Well, no. ;)
Also it couldn´t display the AM signal (25Mhz carrierfrequency) proper, but the rest is not too bad, single/normal trigger works fine.
Showstopper is the minimum resolution of 500mV/div. in 10x mode and the missing of other triggerfunctions.
Interesting:
Frequency will only be measured when the trigger is in "auto" mode, in normal mode it doesn´t work.
Also you can´t "zoom" in after stop.
Continue playing with the board and scope...
We need ask ourselves who might buy this $120 tablet instead of a proper DSO or for that matter a working CRO ?I quite understand and we needed to do maths on the fly with a CRO however most DSO's are able to display waveforms in the units of Amps.
But the amount of menu-diving required simply isn't worth it.Another FAIL for FNIRSI. ::)
Yeah, total fail. They totally should have added a whole extra menu just for that. Not. :palm:
At least an order of magnitude sensitivity better is available in all other scopes and totally without the apparent sensitivity to 10x probes. :o
Yes older instruments do have their limitations too but not so for the most basic of measurements like these.
A buyers expectations of getting a somewhat capable instrument would not be met and for once on this forum I'd recommend the purchase of a CRO so not to be so disappointed. Yes I said that ! :palm:
Yet member bd139 picked up a mint condition TDS210 DSO yesterday for the same price as the topic of this thread of which I strongly suggest will be a much better investment.
I don't understand why people are so shocked by the lies and the performance of this oscilloscope.I'm not shocked!
if you have 150$...
Actual price is 100$ (on taobao.com in China, price is 699 RMB = ~100$), this is how much I paid...
Do you know any alternative for the same price? :)
I suspect 99.44% of the buyers have no need for 100 MHz or < 50 mV/div performance--half of that number probably don't even know what those specs mean...
Yep. It's 200MS/s actually as both ADC's in the one chip are clocked out of phase, same signal goes into both ADC channels.
tv84 is in the place so he will soon be able to unlock the serial bus decoding, the eye diagram and the zone triggering :-/O
Look: https://mysku.ru/blog/aliexpress/80036.html#comment3580231QuoteIf R12 is reduced to 10-22 Ohm, the frequency response at the HF will become flat to 100 MHz.
If you increase C2, it will level out at the low frequency response.
Bodnar-Pulse :
[attachimg=1]
Terminated with 50 \$\Omega\$ ,although it makes no difference... ;D
Has anybody measured the bandwidth in 1x mode?
Has anybody measured the bandwidth in 1x mode?
What specifically did you want verified?
We need ask ourselves who might buy this $120 tablet instead of a proper DSO or for that matter a working CRO ?I quite understand and we needed to do maths on the fly with a CRO however most DSO's are able to display waveforms in the units of Amps.
But the amount of menu-diving required simply isn't worth it.Another FAIL for FNIRSI. ::)
Yeah, total fail. They totally should have added a whole extra menu just for that. Not. :palm:
At least an order of magnitude sensitivity better is available in all other scopes and totally without the apparent sensitivity to 10x probes. :o
Yes older instruments do have their limitations too but not so for the most basic of measurements like these.
A buyers expectations of getting a somewhat capable instrument would not be met and for once on this forum I'd recommend the purchase of a CRO so not to be so disappointed. Yes I said that ! :palm:
Yet member bd139 picked up a mint condition TDS210 DSO yesterday for the same price as the topic of this thread of which I strongly suggest will be a much better investment.
People who want a compact battery operated portable scope they can take with them anytime and can also do floating measurements etc ;) If you have something better to offer let us know. So far I haven't seen any offers of something better for the price. I've seen a lot worse for the price for a portable scope with tiny iddy biddy screens or limited bandwidth etc :( If I want to make my TDS3012 portable I would have to pay $500 US just for a battery and extra for a charger etc !! Yes it's a lot better scope than this one but for on the job in-situ measurements this would be adequate in most cases and compact as well.I get that and for those that understand the limitations of these tablets the price is good however I would never recommend them as a beginners scope which due to their price is tempting to those with a limited budget.
cheers
What specifically did you want verified?
I was wondering what the bandwidth was with the supplied probes in 1x mode. What would a 10Mhz square wave look like with probes in 1x mode?
I get that and for those that understand the limitations of these tablets the price is good however I would never recommend them as a beginners scope which due to their price is tempting to those with a limited budget.
This is a prime case to use a recent Keysight slogan: Get a real scope !
I was wondering what the bandwidth was with the supplied probes in 1x mode. What would a 10Mhz square wave look like with probes in 1x mode?
This is all using the timing signals from the calibrator. 1 Vpp at 10 MHz, nominally squarewave.
The supplied probes were used first, both set to 1X.
Once I have it I'll give it a look over. My expectations are low, but we'll see.
25MHz sinus looks pretty distorted , no wonder why the 10MHz square wave is odd .
That's very good, but the MicSigs last as long too. :-+
25MHz sinus looks pretty distorted , no wonder why the 10MHz square wave is odd .
I believe it is an AM signal, unless I missed it the modulating frequency does not seem to be stated....
I was wondering what the bandwidth was with the supplied probes in 1x mode. What would a 10Mhz square wave look like with probes in 1x mode?
This is all using the timing signals from the calibrator. 1 Vpp at 10 MHz, nominally squarewave.
The supplied probes were used first, both set to 1X.
:-+
Food for thought. I'm surprised at how much difference the probes made at this frequency. There's other threads here that show even the cheapest eBay probes working fine at frequencies an order of magnitude higher.
eg. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/cheapest-100mhz-oscilloscope-probes-hands-on-review/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/cheapest-100mhz-oscilloscope-probes-hands-on-review/)
Edit: Did you compensate the probes on each device before the screenshots? Images like this say "uncompensated probe" to me:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1031238;image)
The AP020 is a FET active probe, isn't it--a $550 (MSRP), $250 (used VG+) probe--that's comparing apples to lemons.
But I get your point, it shows that the signal is pretty damned clean...
the difference between the generic p6100 and the Fnirsi is interesting though.
Chineese P6100 are crappy compared to brand probes , not linear even bellow 100MHz , so that Fnirsi should be the crappiest probes ever made :-DD
Food for thought. I'm surprised at how much difference the probes made at this frequency. There's other threads here that show even the cheapest eBay probes working fine at frequencies an order of magnitude higher.
eg. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/cheapest-100mhz-oscilloscope-probes-hands-on-review/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/cheapest-100mhz-oscilloscope-probes-hands-on-review/)
Edit: Did you compensate the probes on each device before the screenshots? Images like this say "uncompensated probe" to me:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1031238;image)
Once I have it I'll give it a look over. My expectations are low, but we'll see.
User interface looks awful.
In a not at all bandwidth related exercise I tested the 1013D's battery life.
It ran continuously for 6 h 45 m while monitoring two phases of a 4-phase stepper motor being accelerated and cycled clockwise/anticlockwise over a 270° sweep, pulse frequencies 7 to 44 Hz...
Pretty damned good, first thing I've tested that bettered the claimed spec. It took a 3½ hours to recharge at 1.8 A tapering to 0.3 A over the last ½ hour...
I got similar results testing the probe that came with my FNIRSI 5012H. Probe was compensated and then I used a 1V square wave at 2Mhz with 1ns Rise time.
Fnirsi probe:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1032676;image)
Generic P6100:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1032680;image)
Lecroy AP020:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1032684;image)
The probes that came with mine are just plain ol' Chinese P6100s¹--there would be no reason for FNIRSI to make their own, as l suspect in China P6100s come with Happy Meals :
(http://www.paladinmicro.com/TestEquipment/Yeapook/Probes-00.JPG)
------------------------------------------
¹ - Now pretty much generic, and most likely actually made by 37 or more manufacturers. From what I can tell, in Shenzhen, you cannot swing a dead cat without striking at least a dozen electronics producers.
You can't compensate probes on 1x only on 10x. The compensation trimmer cap is not part of the 1x probe circuit.
I tried adjusting both probes with the signal applied, and couldn't get any noticeable change at 1X. :-//
You can't compensate probes on 1x only on 10x. The compensation trimmer cap is not part of the 1x probe circuit.
I tried adjusting both probes with the signal applied, and couldn't get any noticeable change at 1X. :-//
Still, the probes trimming range must suit the input capacitance of the scopes input for 10x work when matching probes to scopes. Yet it is just not that simple either as a probes frequency response when swept to a scopes max BW and beyond needs be a flat as possible for measurements at any rated frequency to be reasonably accurate.
FYI for any instrument tests it's always best to use direct BNC cable connections and assess the probes independently/separately.
The "P6100" probes with my FNIRSI look slightly different to those pictured. Text on labels is finer, moulded text shown in pic beside CE marking is absent, and possibly the moulded "X1" and "X10" are different.
Maybe my mysterious no-nameplate 'scope-type-thing was fished out of the same dumpster as some knock-off P6100s? :-DD
I got similar results testing the probe that came with my FNIRSI 5012H. Probe was compensated and then I used a 1V square wave at 2Mhz with 1ns Rise time.
Fnirsi probe:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1032676;image)
Generic P6100:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1032680;image)
Lecroy AP020:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1032684;image)
Possibly not my ineptness, then.
I tried adjusting both probes with the signal applied, and couldn't get any noticeable change at 1X. :-//
Then the second probe was really bouncing around on that leading edge, while the first was pretty consistent.
Garbage probes, I guess.
Who knows how many let's say "companies" produce P6100 probes ... hard to believe it is just one in the whole China :D Because is low quality and cheap to madeJust one company makes the P6100 probes.
What tools did you use for these nice screenshots? :)
Who knows how many let's say "companies" produce P6100 probes ... hard to believe it is just one in the whole China :D Because is low quality and cheap to madeJust one company makes the P6100 probes.
They have been making probes for decades and make many more than just P6000 models.
Other Chinese probe manufacturers exist too.
the difference between the generic p6100 and the Fnirsi is interesting though.
Yep, I'm wondering how a probe can be that bad when even $5 eBay probes seem to work well up to 300MHz.
Yes but look at your second image, one probe is certainly a copy as it's NOT a P6100.Who knows how many let's say "companies" produce P6100 probes ... hard to believe it is just one in the whole China :D Because is low quality and cheap to madeJust one company makes the P6100 probes.
They have been making probes for decades and make many more than just P6000 models.
Other Chinese probe manufacturers exist too.
Not too sure about that. The generic 6100 (I have 4 identical samples bought from different sources) and FNIRSI Probes are not exactly the same. All generic 6100 in my possession look the same and behave the same. The FNIRSI probe is physically different and behave differently.
Generic 6100 on the left, FNIRSI probe on the right.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1033510;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1033514;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1033518;image)
I would say they work okish up to 50Mhz (FNIRSI more 25Mhz). 300Mhz not really. Like CDaniel mentioned, linearity is not really good.
I did some tests with a noise source over here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg2416473/#msg2416473 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg2416473/#msg2416473)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg2860544/#msg2860544 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg2860544/#msg2860544)
Yes but look at your second image, one probe is certainly a copy as it's NOT a P6100.Who knows how many let's say "companies" produce P6100 probes ... hard to believe it is just one in the whole China :D Because is low quality and cheap to madeJust one company makes the P6100 probes.
They have been making probes for decades and make many more than just P6000 models.
Other Chinese probe manufacturers exist too.
Not too sure about that. The generic 6100 (I have 4 identical samples bought from different sources) and FNIRSI Probes are not exactly the same. All generic 6100 in my possession look the same and behave the same. The FNIRSI probe is physically different and behave differently.
Generic 6100 on the left, FNIRSI probe on the right.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1033510;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1033514;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1033518;image)
Of a good few P6100's I've bought over the years all have been from different sources yet by the same manufacturer which after considerable hunting I was able to find however they wouldn't deal with small fry like me.
Now I just get PP510 from Siglent as they are reasonably priced.
I also have one exactly similar to the "6100" but marked "P6100" instead.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fnirsi-1013d-100mhz-tablet-oscilloscope/?action=dlattach;attach=1033746;image)
Just do a search for "p6100 probe" on ebay. They are all marked as p6100 but are all a little bit different. I don't think there's only one producer :)
Anyway my point is, the P6100 probes from FNIRSI are particularly bad.
You got my curiosity up and I did take a look at eBay's listings, something that caught my eye was how many vendors were touting their product's ability to work with "HP and Tektronix" 'scopes--HP hasn't made a 'scope in over 20 years. I'm not sure if Agilent still makes them
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You can't compensate probes on 1x only on 10x. The compensation trimmer cap is not part of the 1x probe circuit.
I tried adjusting both probes with the signal applied, and couldn't get any noticeable change at 1X. :-//
FYI for any instrument tests it's always best to use direct BNC cable connections and assess the probes independently/separately.
The original (1995) Honda S2000 delivered 247 H.P. @ 8600 RPM, but just 75 to 120 H.P. from 2500 to 5000 RPM, and barely able to launch itself from a stop. You had to "rev" it to 6 or 7 grand to get a respectable launch--whereupon everyone watching was wondering "WTF is wrong with that A-hole".
It's interesting that the Siglent probes respond radically differently. What is the expected frequency limit for these when set to 1X?For your SDS1202X-E its PP215 probes are 200 MHz probes and are listed as capable of just 6 MHz in 1x mode:
The original (1995) Honda S2000 delivered 247 H.P. @ 8600 RPM, but just 75 to 120 H.P. from 2500 to 5000 RPM, and barely able to launch itself from a stop. You had to "rev" it to 6 or 7 grand to get a respectable launch--whereupon everyone watching was wondering "WTF is wrong with that A-hole".
That's because it was built to be driven, not to be "launched".
Take one out on some twisty mountain roads sometime. :popcorn:
With automobile engines peak H.P. of an engine is an interesting number--power generally happens briefly, just before you shift--but the level and flatness of the torque curve are much more important to real world performance on the street...
The original (1995) Honda S2000 delivered 247 H.P. @ 8600 RPM, but just 75 to 120 H.P. from 2500 to 5000 RPM, and barely able to launch itself from a stop. You had to "rev" it to 6 or 7 grand to get a respectable launch--whereupon everyone watching was wondering "WTF is wrong with that A-hole".
In the end it was just a plain ol' 150 H.P Jap 4-banger built to withstand 9000 RPM, and tuned to make the marketing people happy by producing an unusable horsepower "peak" at that engine speed. It was not at all a fun car to drive, which is the whole point of "sports cars".
The best description I ever saw was that "it is a great car as long as you drive it like you just stole it."
The original (1995) Honda S2000 delivered 247 H.P. @ 8600 RPM, but just 75 to 120 H.P. from 2500 to 5000 RPM, and barely able to launch itself from a stop. You had to "rev" it to 6 or 7 grand to get a respectable launch--whereupon everyone watching was wondering "WTF is wrong with that A-hole".
That's because it was built to be driven, not to be "launched".
Take one out on some twisty mountain roads sometime. :popcorn:
Bollocks. No torque no push, no push no fun, simple as that. It's a girly car anyways.
Yeah, power is torque x rpm, choose your venom. But keep in mind that on the streets you can't drive like a maniac. That's why EVs are so fun to drive.
Just do a search for "p6100 probe" on ebay. They are all marked as p6100 but are all a little bit different. I don't think there's only one producer :)
Read a physics book.
At least we've all moved on from units like "feet"... :scared:What's wrong with feet? I have two, use them all the time, marvelous stuff... :-DD
At least we've all moved on from units like "feet"... :scared:
Not here in the "colonies",
English/Imperial measure is still the official standard--us long with Myanmar (I don't even like saying that word) and Liberia.
Figure out which FPGA pin controls it, make some FPGA code to just set that pin and nothing more. Do the rest later :-)
Edit: Or.... just use the existing FPGA code and send it the command to turn the lights on.
ReplyContent：
hi, friend
The situation you said is measurable, you can contact the store where you bought this product, and she will help you solve this problem. Thank you for your message and wish you a happy life!
ReplyDatetime：
2020-09-02 14:47
Hi,
As the scope couldn´t measure in normal trigger mode, I´ve asked them if there will be any firmware upgrade in the future, to fix that.
This was on 13th august.
Today I receive an answer:QuoteReplyContent：
hi, friend
The situation you said is measurable, you can contact the store where you bought this product, and she will help you solve this problem. Thank you for your message and wish you a happy life!
ReplyDatetime：
2020-09-02 14:47
OK, I´m going to ask AMAZON... :-DD
[How to fix irresponsive touchscreen] [with solution]
So I tried a couple of low value caps (1pF, 5pF, 10pF and 100pF) and they all made things a bit better, but the 100pF one made it just PERFECT :-DMM!
Questions
1. Why is there a cap connected to SCL?
1.1 That's a capacitor, right?
2. Why is the cap connected across two signal lines?
2.1 I never saw anything like that in I2C lines, is this some advance hack?
2.2 What could the other signal be?
3. Why do you think the touchscreen was defective in the first place?
The cap appears to be placed across SDA and SCL. That makes pretty much no sense.
Around 3k3 would be better for 3.3V logic, with no additional capacitance.
maybe the touch controller datasheet had it in the reference design
...
Waveform captures are 15 000 bytes. Take slightly longer than a screen capture - maybe 2.5 seconds. Why 15 000 bytes? Don't know. Perhaps that's the full memory for data points?
...
Still a dual channel 20MHz 7" touch screen portable tablet scope for $140 isn't bad.