Author Topic: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope  (Read 28319 times)

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Offline cliffyk

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #175 on: July 17, 2020, 01:29:52 pm »
Got mine yesterday evening, haven't "played with it" a lot yet (it is for certain a toy) of course. However I can confirm the following (in no special order):

  • It is as cute as a bug's ear;
  • The capacitive touch screen UI is quite nice, responsive and nicely configured;
  • It triggers properly on aperiodic bursts usin 5 bursts of a 1 MHz pulse at a 100 kHz repetition rate.
  • It does not have a usable bandwidth of anywhere near 100 MHz;
  • In X10 mode and mucking about with the probe's compensation I found I could create an incredibly non-linear "peaky as hell' response that might perhaps pass a 100 MHz signal--this may be how the rice-burners that market it justify their "100 MHz" and "< 3ns" claims;
  • It is as cute as a bug's ear;
  • In X10 mode the vertical input characteristics are different at each sensitivity setting--making X10 mode even more useless;
  • The FFT math function does nothing but provide a vertically constrained, fixed position, non-calibrated, non-adjustable, clipped off at the top picture of the waveform's spectral content--it is more annoying than useful;
  • The battery seems quite capable of meeting the 4 hour runtime claim;
  • The user manual is horrid, tiny, incomplete and obviously written by someone with an only partial command of the English language;
  • It is as cute as a bug's ear;
  • The -3 dB bandwidth in X1 mode (using just a 50 Ω BNC patch cable) is 20 MHz;
  • I have no way of measuring the sample rate, however I seriously doubt it is 1 Gs/s;
  • Within it's real capabilities the display is very nice;
  • It runs well when charging via the supplied wall wart, however when connected to the USB charging station also powering my function generator or my desktop computer it goes haywire--some ground loop issue I suspect;
  • It is as cute as a bug's ear;
  • Mine is branded Yeapook, though in the Amazon ad copy it was shown as being FNIRSI;
So all that said, and as what I will likely use it for (automotive, motorcycles, etc.) does not require an X10 probe or 100 MHz bandwidth, I think I will keep it. It's portability alone makes it a worthwhile tool. I's too bad the makers feel they need to lie about it's specs.

Did I mention it is as cute as a bug's ear?
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Offline iscle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #176 on: July 17, 2020, 10:39:31 pm »
Got mine yesterday evening, haven't "played with it" a lot yet (it is for certain a toy) of course. However I can confirm the following (in no special order):

  • It is as cute as a bug's ear;
  • The capacitive touch screen UI is quite nice, responsive and nicely configured;
  • It triggers properly on aperiodic bursts usin 5 bursts of a 1 MHz pulse at a 100 kHz repetition rate.
  • It does not have a usable bandwidth of anywhere near 100 MHz;
  • In X10 mode and mucking about with the probe's compensation I found I could create an incredibly non-linear "peaky as hell' response that might perhaps pass a 100 MHz signal--this may be how the rice-burners that market it justify their "100 MHz" and "< 3ns" claims;
  • It is as cute as a bug's ear;
  • In X10 mode the vertical input characteristics are different at each sensitivity setting--making X10 mode even more useless;
  • The FFT math function does nothing but provide a vertically constrained, fixed position, non-calibrated, non-adjustable, clipped off at the top picture of the waveform's spectral content--it is more annoying than useful;
  • The battery seems quite capable of meeting the 4 hour runtime claim;
  • The user manual is horrid, tiny, incomplete and obviously written by someone with an only partial command of the English language;
  • It is as cute as a bug's ear;
  • The -3 dB bandwidth in X1 mode (using just a 50 Ω BNC patch cable) is 20 MHz;
  • I have no way of measuring the sample rate, however I seriously doubt it is 1 Gs/s;
  • Within it's real capabilities the display is very nice;
  • It runs well when charging via the supplied wall wart, however when connected to the USB charging station also powering my function generator or my desktop computer it goes haywire--some ground loop issue I suspect;
  • It is as cute as a bug's ear;
  • Mine is branded Yeapook, though in the Amazon ad copy it was shown as being FNIRSI;
So all that said, and as what I will likely use it for (automotive, motorcycles, etc.) does not require an X10 probe or 100 MHz bandwidth, I think I will keep it. It's portability alone makes it a worthwhile tool. I's too bad the makers feel they need to lie about it's specs.

Did I mention it is as cute as a bug's ear?

Would you mind dumping the winbond SPI flash and posting it here? It would definitely help with reverse engineering it! I've ordered one but it's coming on a human-powered boat from China...
 

Offline cliffyk

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #177 on: July 17, 2020, 10:48:44 pm »

Would you mind dumping the winbond SPI flash and posting it here? It would definitely help with reverse engineering it! I've ordered one but it's coming on a human-powered boat from China...

I would be pleased to;  how do I go about doing so? What do I need?
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Offline cliffyk

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #178 on: July 18, 2020, 12:27:35 am »
I just bought one too  :palm:

Even with all the lies, bugs and limitations, I find the concept to be excellent.
I sometimes need to "see something" in hard to reach places or when I am not in the lab.
When we just need to see if the clock signal is here or if we have our RS422 pairs at the right place, no need for the big 5000€ scope balanced on the crimping pliers.

The fact that we can increase the battery capacity is great, the big 7" screen is also great, no fan. I hesitated with a handled oscilloscope but I find them very expensive.
If I like the concept, I think it will lead me to buy a Micsig tablet oscilloscope but the small form factor of this little Fnirsi is very very nice.

If they make their code open source, they can sell millions, I think.
It need a small silicone protection and a more expensive 50 € model with real 500 MSa/s

That's pretty much the way I look at it, I have a $360 Hantek 1062B with an actual 60 MHz bandwidth, 1 Gs/s sample rate, 2 mv/div sensitivity, and a real configurable and adjustable FFT function.

It is approximately the same size but has just a 5.7" 640 x 480 display, a cooling fan, and weighs 1.2 kg vs. 707 g for the little guy. It also requires 12 VDC to charge vs. the little fella's nearly ubiquitous 5 VDC requirement.

The Hantek is cute (it would be better with a larger touchscreen):



But not as "cute as a bug's ear":





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Offline iscle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #179 on: July 18, 2020, 12:33:37 am »

Would you mind dumping the winbond SPI flash and posting it here? It would definitely help with reverse engineering it! I've ordered one but it's coming on a human-powered boat from China...

I would be pleased to;  how do I go about doing so? What do I need?

Awesome! You'll need a CH341A (preferred) or a Raspberry Pi (any model) or, as a last resource, a blue pill board.

If you don't own any of those devices you could order the CH341A on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-USB-Programmer-CH341A-Burner-Chip-Writer-SOP-Clip-Adapter-EEPROM-BIOS-FLAS/233635841518), but in that case I think it's not worth it as I'd probably get my device before you get the programmer. However, if the open-source firmware comes along nicely and you want to flash it, you'll need one of those devices too, so it's not wasted money ;)

In case you own a CH341A, you will need to connect it to the SPI memory and dump it using the provided software.
In case of using a Raspberry Pi, a software called "flashrom" can be used to use the GPIO as the interface to the SPI chip. (https://www.flashrom.org/RaspberryPi)
With the blue pill board it's more tricky to do.

In all cases, the CPU will need to be held in a reset state in order to free the SPI bus for the programmer to use it. The only other way is physically de soldering the SPI chip from the board.

PD: To hold the CPU in reset, pin 70 needs to be shorted to GND. There's a convenient pad attached to it (https://prnt.sc/tjxfnl).
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 12:37:35 am by iscle »
 

Offline cliffyk

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #180 on: July 18, 2020, 01:22:43 am »

Would you mind dumping the winbond SPI flash and posting it here? It would definitely help with reverse engineering it! I've ordered one but it's coming on a human-powered boat from China...

I would be pleased to;  how do I go about doing so? What do I need?

Awesome! You'll need a CH341A (preferred) or a Raspberry Pi (any model) or, as a last resource, a blue pill board.

If you don't own any of those devices you could order the CH341A on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-USB-Programmer-CH341A-Burner-Chip-Writer-SOP-Clip-Adapter-EEPROM-BIOS-FLAS/233635841518), but in that case I think it's not worth it as I'd probably get my device before you get the programmer. However, if the open-source firmware comes along nicely and you want to flash it, you'll need one of those devices too, so it's not wasted money ;)

In case you own a CH341A, you will need to connect it to the SPI memory and dump it using the provided software.
In case of using a Raspberry Pi, a software called "flashrom" can be used to use the GPIO as the interface to the SPI chip. (https://www.flashrom.org/RaspberryPi)
With the blue pill board it's more tricky to do.

In all cases, the CPU will need to be held in a reset state in order to free the SPI bus for the programmer to use it. The only other way is physically de soldering the SPI chip from the board.

PD: To hold the CPU in reset, pin 70 needs to be shorted to GND. There's a convenient pad attached to it (https://prnt.sc/tjxfnl).

I do not buy from China via eBay, having been stung too many times after waiting weeks on end. I do see what looks like the same device on Amazon for $8.88 w/ Prime shipping

Amazon does not vet it's vendors as well as they could/should, eBay is worse!

I have a CP2102 based USB to TTL interface I have used to update firmware on a JYETech DSO112A. I wonder if that could work, however to be honest as my Parkinson's has advanced over the last year I have become less confident about mucking about on SMD boards with a soldering iron, I would hate to brick my new $160 toy (SWMBO would kill me)...

I will do some research any see if it's something I feel comfortable jumping in to...
-cliff knight-

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Offline iscle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #181 on: July 18, 2020, 01:35:37 am »

Would you mind dumping the winbond SPI flash and posting it here? It would definitely help with reverse engineering it! I've ordered one but it's coming on a human-powered boat from China...

I would be pleased to;  how do I go about doing so? What do I need?

Awesome! You'll need a CH341A (preferred) or a Raspberry Pi (any model) or, as a last resource, a blue pill board.

If you don't own any of those devices you could order the CH341A on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/JW-USB-Programmer-CH341A-Burner-Chip-Writer-SOP-Clip-Adapter-EEPROM-BIOS-FLAS/233635841518), but in that case I think it's not worth it as I'd probably get my device before you get the programmer. However, if the open-source firmware comes along nicely and you want to flash it, you'll need one of those devices too, so it's not wasted money ;)

In case you own a CH341A, you will need to connect it to the SPI memory and dump it using the provided software.
In case of using a Raspberry Pi, a software called "flashrom" can be used to use the GPIO as the interface to the SPI chip. (https://www.flashrom.org/RaspberryPi)
With the blue pill board it's more tricky to do.

In all cases, the CPU will need to be held in a reset state in order to free the SPI bus for the programmer to use it. The only other way is physically de soldering the SPI chip from the board.

PD: To hold the CPU in reset, pin 70 needs to be shorted to GND. There's a convenient pad attached to it (https://prnt.sc/tjxfnl).

I do not buy from China via eBay, having been stung too many times after waiting weeks on end. I do see what looks like the same device on Amazon for $8.88 w/ Prime shipping

Amazon does not vet it's vendors as well as they could/should, eBay is worse!

I have a CP2102 based USB to TTL interface I have used to update firmware on a JYETech DSO112A. I wonder if that could work, however to be honest as my Parkinson's has advanced over the last year I have become less confident about mucking about on SMD boards with a soldering iron, I would hate to brick my new $160 toy (SWMBO would kill me)...

I will do some research any see if it's something I feel comfortable jumping in to...

The one in Amazon is the same, but it does not come with the clip connector which is useful in these situations.

That said, there's no smd soldering involved! FNIRSI were kind enough to give us access to all the pins required with standard 2.54mm pin headers (https://prnt.sc/tjxzwj). However, I completely understand that you don't want to risk it and kill your brand new oscilloscope :P

That's okay, I'll do it myself when I receive mine, and post full pinouts for every (unpopulated) header in the board, for future reference.

Thanks for the interest!
 

Offline cliffyk

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #182 on: July 18, 2020, 02:00:48 am »

The one in Amazon is the same, but it does not come with the clip connector which is useful in these situations.

That said, there's no smd soldering involved! FNIRSI were kind enough to give us access to all the pins required with standard 2.54mm pin headers (https://prnt.sc/tjxzwj). However, I completely understand that you don't want to risk it and kill your brand new oscilloscope :P

That's okay, I'll do it myself when I receive mine, and post full pinouts for every (unpopulated) header in the board, for future reference.

Thanks for the interest!

I just ordered one from Amazon, with the clip connector and some other physical interface devices ($13.58, this one). Supposed to be here Monday (evening is when we get deliveries out here "in the county").

I'll see what I can figure out then...


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Offline iscle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #183 on: July 18, 2020, 02:24:38 am »
I just ordered one from Amazon, with the clip connector and some other physical interface devices ($13.58, this one). Supposed to be here Monday (evening is when we get deliveries out here "in the county").

I'll see what I can figure out then...

Awesome! I'm sure you'll find it useful in other situations too (SPI Flash chips are very common!).

The only thing you will need to solder is a jumper from the pin 70 header to GND, to keep the CPU in reset mode.


This is the driver + software for the programmer for Windows. I tested it on my machine with Windows 10 x64. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pPrfsr2i2ZM_NXGNXCCLFuscdtjxWvYx/view?usp=sharing (I don't recommend to download this software from other sources as some of them are viruses... It took some time to find this working, clean version).
You need to install the driver first, and then run the software. I've included various versions (as they support different chips). Try the latest one, and if it does not work keep trying the other ones until you find one that works. Worst thing that can happen is that the software won't be able to read the chip.

Those are the only steps that are required to read the chip (DO NOT PRESS THE "Auto", "Blank", "Write" OR "Erase" BUTTONS AS THAT WILL ERASE THE CHIP!):
 

Online Fungus

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #184 on: July 18, 2020, 02:43:40 am »
The only thing you will need to solder is a jumper from the pin 70 header to GND, to keep the CPU in reset mode.

Looks like there's a GND hole without solder mask 2.54 millimeters to the left right of that.


That said, there's no smd soldering involved! FNIRSI were kind enough to give us access to all the pins required with standard 2.54mm pin headers (https://prnt.sc/tjxzwj).

Indeed. This thing was born to be hacked.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 08:22:34 am by Fungus »
 
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Offline cliffyk

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #185 on: July 18, 2020, 08:16:07 am »

Looks like there's a GND hole without solder mask 2.54 millimeters to the left of that.


That would be cool, I'll just slap a two-pin header strip in there and put a jumper on it...
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Offline iscle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #186 on: July 18, 2020, 12:55:53 pm »
The only thing you will need to solder is a jumper from the pin 70 header to GND, to keep the CPU in reset mode.

Looks like there's a GND hole without solder mask 2.54 millimeters to the left right of that.

From the looks of it, that's not GND... This is a (low-res) picture of the underside:


Also, @cliffyk, could you take some clear pictures of the LCD ribbon cable and the Touchscreen IC chip? We need to identify them to write their drivers in the Linux Kernel. The pictures on page 1 of the topic does not show them clearly.

Thanks!
 

Online Fungus

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #187 on: July 18, 2020, 01:02:42 pm »
From the looks of it, that's not GND... This is a (low-res) picture of the underside:

Seems hard to believe that they'd bring out that pin then put another hole 2.54mm away from it, no solder mask on either hole, but that's not what you're supposed to use.  :-//

[attachimg=1]
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 01:12:17 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #188 on: July 18, 2020, 01:13:42 pm »
[...] Also, @cliffyk, could you take some clear pictures of the LCD ribbon cable and the Touchscreen IC chip? We need to identify them to write their drivers in the Linux Kernel. [...]

There's lots of useful info here: http://nano.lichee.pro/ (chinese, use the google translate extension)

Seeing how quick it boots, I'd think it isn't booting uboot then linux, but maybe, perhaps xboot? + rt-thread, and also the simple UI may as well be littlevGL. (follow the links at the url above).
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Offline iscle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #189 on: July 18, 2020, 01:24:11 pm »
[...] Also, @cliffyk, could you take some clear pictures of the LCD ribbon cable and the Touchscreen IC chip? We need to identify them to write their drivers in the Linux Kernel. [...]

[...] Seeing how quick it boots, I'd think it isn't booting uboot then linux, but maybe, perhaps xboot? + rt-thread, and also the simple UI may as well be littlevGL. [...]

Yeah! I thought about that too (but Linux can be made to boot that fast too, if you try hard enough). However, I'd like to use Linux in the new firmware as it's easier to use overall, and also allows us to use other UIs, like Qt. I still have to see if Qt will run in this little chip. If not, then GTK or LVGL would be my other choices.

There's a guy that has created a bare minimum buildroot configuration for this specific chip, which I'm planning to use as a base.
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #190 on: July 18, 2020, 02:27:47 pm »
It's not going to be easy, first you've got to be sure you can reverse engineer the interface with the fpga, because without that you're not going anywhere.

P.D. the lichee nano (an F1C100S with a Linux) is $6 at seeedstudio.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 02:30:50 pm by GeorgeOfTheJungle »
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Offline iscle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #191 on: July 18, 2020, 02:34:11 pm »
It's not going to be easy, first you've got to be sure you can reverse engineer the interface with the fpga, because without that you're not going anywhere.

Yeah, I'll have to either reverse engineer the interface with the FPGA, or program the FPGA myself (which is my plan!). I'll of course back up all the SPI memories to be able to restore the scope to factory defaults. The main reason of buying this scope was to write full open-source code for it.

P.D. the lichee nano (an F1C100S with a Linux) is $6 at seeedstudio.

I know, very cheap! I have a Lichee Pi Zero which is quite similar, but a bit more powerful.
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #192 on: July 18, 2020, 02:37:29 pm »
I know, very cheap! I have a Lichee Pi Zero which is quite similar, but a bit more powerful.

But that's an S3 (V3s?), right?
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Offline iscle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #193 on: July 18, 2020, 02:58:31 pm »
I know, very cheap! I have a Lichee Pi Zero which is quite similar, but a bit more powerful.

But that's an S3 (V3s?), right?

Exactly, it's an S3 with integrated DDR2 memory. It's true that the V3s is a Cortex-A7, while the F1C00S is ARM926EJ-S, so binaries are not compatible. However, building for both is quite similar.
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #194 on: July 18, 2020, 05:28:46 pm »

Yeah, I'll have to either reverse engineer the interface with the FPGA, or program the FPGA myself (which is my plan!). I'll of course back up all the SPI memories to be able to restore the scope to factory defaults. The main reason of buying this scope was to write full open-source code for it.


I'm very interested to see how this goes.  I started work on open source for an Instek GDS-2000E but then killed the scope in an accident.  I'm trying to get a price on replacing the main board.

Have Fun!
Reg
 

Offline iscle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #195 on: July 18, 2020, 06:36:56 pm »

Yeah, I'll have to either reverse engineer the interface with the FPGA, or program the FPGA myself (which is my plan!). I'll of course back up all the SPI memories to be able to restore the scope to factory defaults. The main reason of buying this scope was to write full open-source code for it.


I'm very interested to see how this goes.  I started work on open source for an Instek GDS-2000E but then killed the scope in an accident.  I'm trying to get a price on replacing the main board.

Have Fun!
Reg

Oh, that's an expensive accident...  :-\ In case of the FNIRSI-1013D, it's practically unkillable (unless you overvolt it, or short something you don't have to). I'm not that good with FPGAs yet, so any help will be appreciated (by me and by all the community, I'm sure) :)
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #196 on: July 18, 2020, 07:14:32 pm »
I had leads on a header so I could probe the signals without shorting the pins, but then stood the scope up and one of the leads hit the SMPS.  Ouch!

I got insanely lucky and got it new for $255 from Amazon during an old stock clearance.  So I was diligently working on reverse engineering the header, software update process, etc.

My initial goal was simply to crack the UI open so I could fix a bunch of bugs.  But I'd also set up to develop FPGA IP for the Zynq on a Zybo Z-7 board.  Goal was to develop open source FW for Zynq based DSOs.  They have to be very similar so over the course of a couple of years one ought to be able to completely replace the OEM FW on any Zynq based DSO.  Almost certainly not exactly the same, but no worse than dealing with different MMUs used with different CPUs.

If I get a replacement main board for the GDS-2072E I'll use the dead board to reverse engineer the ADC and Zynq wiring.

Has anyone investigated the USB port to see if one can get access via that?  I just learned about these recently.  I've watched a couple of reviews by Dave and another chap, but not read through all the posts here.

Have Fun!
Reg
 

Offline iscle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #197 on: July 18, 2020, 07:55:08 pm »
Has anyone investigated the USB port to see if one can get access via that?  I just learned about these recently.  I've watched a couple of reviews by Dave and another chap, but not read through all the posts here.

The USB port is handled by the Allwinner SOC, and it can work in both host and peripheral mode. I don't know if there's a way to upgrade the firmware directly by copying a file to the USB disk it creates when connected to a computer. If we get our hands on a dump of the firmware we could find it out.
 

Offline rhb

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #198 on: July 18, 2020, 08:09:44 pm »
I'll send $20 US via PayPal to the first person to post a FW dump.

Have Fun!
Reg
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #199 on: July 18, 2020, 08:27:48 pm »
Hi,

Ordered a fnirsi too, should arrive on monday (amazon).
The only reason is to measure the update rate of my scope.
After this, maybe it could be useful for something else.
Can try to read out the winbond chip too, as I got a tl866 here.


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