Author Topic: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope  (Read 33671 times)

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Online Martin72

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #400 on: July 26, 2020, 09:51:39 pm »
Now we know all and enough about the probes... 8)


Offline cliffyk

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #401 on: July 27, 2020, 12:19:58 am »
I also have one exactly similar to the "6100" but marked "P6100" instead.



Just do a search for "p6100 probe" on ebay. They are all marked as p6100 but are all a little bit different. I don't think there's only one producer  :)

Anyway my point is, the P6100 probes from FNIRSI are particularly bad.

You got my curiosity up and I did take a look at eBay's listings, something that caught my eye was how many vendors were touting their product's ability to work with "HP and Tektronix" 'scopes--HP hasn't made a 'scope in over 20 years. I'm not sure if Agilent still makes them
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« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 01:16:48 am by cliffyk »
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Offline boggis the cat

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #402 on: July 27, 2020, 07:24:54 am »
You got my curiosity up and I did take a look at eBay's listings, something that caught my eye was how many vendors were touting their product's ability to work with "HP and Tektronix" 'scopes--HP hasn't made a 'scope in over 20 years. I'm not sure if Agilent still makes them
.

No.  Keysight is the 'inheritor' of Agilent / HP / Hewlett Packard (remember back then?) oscilloscopes and other electrical measuring instrumentation.
 

Offline boggis the cat

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #403 on: July 27, 2020, 07:29:53 am »

I tried adjusting both probes with the signal applied, and couldn't get any noticeable change at 1X.   :-//

You can't compensate probes on 1x only on 10x. The compensation trimmer cap is not part of the 1x probe circuit.

I thought that was the case, but couldn't be bothered checking.  I don't think I have ever used probes set to 1X.

Quote
FYI for any instrument tests it's always best to use direct BNC cable connections and assess the probes independently/separately.

Yes, which is what I did earlier by directly connecting the Active Heads.  'Fungus' wanted some info using the supplied probes set to 1X, so that's what I did.

It's interesting that the Siglent probes respond radically differently.  What is the expected frequency limit for these when set to 1X?
 

Online Fungus

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #404 on: July 27, 2020, 07:35:20 am »
The original (1995) Honda S2000 delivered 247 H.P. @ 8600 RPM, but just 75 to 120 H.P. from 2500 to 5000 RPM, and barely able to launch itself from a stop. You had to "rev" it to 6 or 7 grand to get a respectable launch--whereupon everyone watching was wondering "WTF is wrong with that A-hole".

That's because it was built to be driven, not to be "launched".

Take one out on some twisty mountain roads sometime.  :popcorn:
 

Online tautech

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #405 on: July 27, 2020, 07:48:18 am »
It's interesting that the Siglent probes respond radically differently.  What is the expected frequency limit for these when set to 1X?
For your SDS1202X-E its PP215 probes are 200 MHz probes and are listed as capable of just 6 MHz in 1x mode:
https://siglentna.com/product/pp215-200-mhz-oscilloscope-probe/
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Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #406 on: July 27, 2020, 07:57:20 am »
The original (1995) Honda S2000 delivered 247 H.P. @ 8600 RPM, but just 75 to 120 H.P. from 2500 to 5000 RPM, and barely able to launch itself from a stop. You had to "rev" it to 6 or 7 grand to get a respectable launch--whereupon everyone watching was wondering "WTF is wrong with that A-hole".

That's because it was built to be driven, not to be "launched".

Take one out on some twisty mountain roads sometime.  :popcorn:

Bollocks. No torque no push, no push no fun, simple as that. It's a girly car anyways.
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #407 on: July 27, 2020, 07:58:16 am »

With automobile engines peak H.P. of an engine is an interesting number--power generally happens briefly, just before you shift--but the level and flatness of the torque curve are much more important to real world performance on the street...

The original (1995) Honda S2000 delivered 247 H.P. @ 8600 RPM, but just 75 to 120 H.P. from 2500 to 5000 RPM, and barely able to launch itself from a stop. You had to "rev" it to 6 or 7 grand to get a respectable launch--whereupon everyone watching was wondering "WTF is wrong with that A-hole".

In the end it was just a plain ol' 150 H.P Jap 4-banger built to withstand 9000 RPM, and tuned to make the marketing people happy by producing an unusable horsepower "peak" at that engine speed. It was not at all a fun car to drive, which is the whole point of "sports cars".

The best description I ever saw was that "it is a great car as long as you drive it like you just stole it."


And that is why I was able to humiliate a guy driving Mustang SVT with a "stupid little golf cart"(his words) Golf GTI (stock) up the short, few miles stretch up the mountains in Pennsylvania...  He almost got killed twice and was making smoke mostly while I was taking curve by curve at blazing speed... He was paying for the lunch for a week...

You're supposed to drive it like you stole it.. Race car driver that keeps engine anywhere less than 4/5  or more of it's rev range at all times is not much of a driver ..

You would also probably laugh at Class A racing Yugo, that had 230 HP from 1300cc (at 11000 RPM, ceramic pistons) and 650 Kilos... And 17" Lockheed brake disks with 4 cylinder calipers. But if a pro racer would drive you on hill climb with it, you would be very, very afraid..
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #408 on: July 27, 2020, 08:05:15 am »
The original (1995) Honda S2000 delivered 247 H.P. @ 8600 RPM, but just 75 to 120 H.P. from 2500 to 5000 RPM, and barely able to launch itself from a stop. You had to "rev" it to 6 or 7 grand to get a respectable launch--whereupon everyone watching was wondering "WTF is wrong with that A-hole".

That's because it was built to be driven, not to be "launched".

Take one out on some twisty mountain roads sometime.  :popcorn:

Bollocks. No torque no push, no push no fun, simple as that. It's a girly car anyways.

Read a physics book. Power is RPM time torque time constant.
Torque at wheels happens in gearbox and diff ratios.

If you set gearbox for same speed at max power two cars with same HP will have same torque at wheels at same HP despite having it at different RPMs.

Torque curve is different thing.. If you have engine that has lots of torque at all RPMs you will be faster and easier to drive, because you have wider powerband.. Forced induction engines are nice that way.

But on a race car, you simply keep it in powerband and that's it.



 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #409 on: July 27, 2020, 08:11:12 am »
Yeah, power is torque x rpm, choose your venom. But keep in mind that on the streets you can't drive like a maniac. That's why EVs are so fun to drive.
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #410 on: July 27, 2020, 08:15:22 am »
Yeah, power is torque x rpm, choose your venom. But keep in mind that on the streets you can't drive like a maniac. That's why EVs are so fun to drive.

Of course you can...  >:D

And yeah, EV are pure fun...
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #411 on: July 27, 2020, 08:41:07 am »
Just do a search for "p6100 probe" on ebay. They are all marked as p6100 but are all a little bit different. I don't think there's only one producer  :)

And they're all marked as "high quality".  :scared:
 

Offline cliffyk

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #412 on: July 27, 2020, 08:45:21 am »
Read a physics book.

I read a bunch of them in school some years back--(MSME MIT '71).

Do you know where that "torque time constant" number (5252) comes from?

James Watt decided that a "good dray horse" could deliver 33,000 ft·lbf/ minute (actually he calculated 32,572, which was "rounded" to 33,000).

33,000 / 6.28 (pi X 2) = 5252...

Sounds as though you might be interested in my "How Much HP to Go How Fast?" calculator. It defaults to "New Edge" Mustang properties, but they can be changed to match any car's specs.



« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 09:28:55 am by cliffyk »
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Online Fungus

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #413 on: July 27, 2020, 10:29:46 am »
At least we've all moved on from units like "feet"...  :scared:
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #414 on: July 27, 2020, 11:53:09 am »
At least we've all moved on from units like "feet"...  :scared:
What's wrong with feet? I have two, use them all the time, marvelous stuff... :-DD
 
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Offline cliffyk

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #415 on: July 27, 2020, 02:10:45 pm »
At least we've all moved on from units like "feet"...  :scared:

Not here in the "colonies", English/Imperial measure is still the official standard--us long with Myanmar (I don't even like saying that word) and Liberia.
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Offline boggis the cat

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #416 on: July 28, 2020, 09:53:09 am »
Not here in the "colonies",

The Colonies that were treasonous terrorists...   ;)

Most of Britain's fading Empire went metric at some stage.

Quote
English/Imperial measure is still the official standard--us long with Myanmar (I don't even like saying that word) and Liberia.

Liberia doesn't really count, as that's the ex-slaves that were keen on 'going back to Africa' and thus technically also a sub-set of 'Muricans.

Myanmar / Burma must still love that Imperial legacy – or they're simply too poor to pay for the required changes.
 

Offline iscle

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #417 on: July 30, 2020, 10:16:12 pm »
Update on me trying to port U-Boot + Linux on the scope.

It turns out that the LCD backlight is controlled by the FPGA, which gets instructed by the original code to turn it on on boot. This means that the CPU<->FPGA protocol has to be reverse-engineered, or the FPGA code replaced with new code just to get the backlight working.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #418 on: July 31, 2020, 02:21:00 pm »
Figure out which FPGA pin controls it, make some FPGA code to just set that pin and nothing more. Do the rest later :-)

Edit: Or.... just use the existing FPGA code and send it the command to turn the lights on.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 02:22:31 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline pickle9000

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #419 on: July 31, 2020, 06:06:02 pm »
Figure out which FPGA pin controls it, make some FPGA code to just set that pin and nothing more. Do the rest later :-)

Edit: Or.... just use the existing FPGA code and send it the command to turn the lights on.

Or just cut the trace running to that pin and tie it to the logic level you need.
 
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Offline cliffyk

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #420 on: August 07, 2020, 09:50:53 am »
Well, I've had it for 3 weeks now, used it in real automotive and motorcycle diagnostic work 3 or 4 times, and find I like it. It is too bad the maker/vendors feel compelled to grossly overstate its specifications--but a handy 30 mhz 2-channel 'scope in a compact 7" tablet form for $165 is not too bad...
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Offline robca

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #421 on: August 10, 2020, 09:28:50 pm »
The Banggood version is down to $119 https://www.banggood.com/DANIU-ADS1013D-2-Channels-100MHz-Band-Width-1GSa-or-s-Sampling-Rate-Oscilloscope-with-7-Inch-Color-TFT-LCD-Touch-Screen-p-1641865.html

As usual, 5 star rating, given that for the last couple of years Banggood only allows 4 and 5 star reviews to be published. If you submit a 1 or 2 star review, it's never published, a well as most 3 star ones. Some people even resort to posting negative reviews, but with 4 or 5 star ratings just ot be able to post something negative (Banggood bots don't seem to pay attention to the content of the review, just the stars)
 

Online Martin72

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #422 on: August 10, 2020, 09:46:14 pm »
In this case I won´t worry about it - For it´s price I would give it a 4-5 star rating, no doubt about it.
Still it´s a toy against "real scopes", but it´s the first of the real cheaps, you can partly work with it.



Online Martin72

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #423 on: September 02, 2020, 01:13:26 pm »
Hi,

As the scope couldn´t measure in normal trigger mode, I´ve asked them if there will be any firmware upgrade in the future, to fix that.
This was on 13th august.
Today I receive an answer:

Quote
ReplyContent:
hi, friend
The situation you said is measurable, you can contact the store where you bought this product, and she will help you solve this problem. Thank you for your message and wish you a happy life!
ReplyDatetime:
2020-09-02 14:47

OK, I´m going to ask AMAZON... :-DD

Offline Dbuezas

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #424 on: September 06, 2020, 04:00:09 pm »
[How to fix irresponsive touchscreen] [with solution]

Hi,

Story
I received a broken unit: the touchscreen was very irresponsive and would jump all over the place  :-BROKE. I think the unit Dave tested had a similar issue at the beginning of his video, but mine was WAY worse. Not usable at all.

I tried to send it back, but aliexpress decided I should pay for the postage and since I rejected that, they stopped asking me and refunded 30€ back. GREAT! I have a 100€ paperweight!  :palm:
I thought it may had a bad solder joint or some solder bridge so I took it apart a month ago, cleaned some solder droplets and cleaned and reconnected the display flat cables. That didn't do s*t.
Yesterday I decided to give it a second try before I throw it away and since it is trash I was very careless and started touching everything with bare hands. Maybe some static fixes it hehe. And then something happened  :phew::

Confusion
I connected the clock line of the I2C to another oscilloscope and realised the clock was not a nice square wave all the time, so I looked a bit closer and realised there is what seems to be a cap there (see question 1). The other side of the cap is neither ground nor vcc, it is another different square signal even of a different frequency (Question 2).
-> see img2.jpeg

Lucky Fix
Anyway, I realised that the touchscreen worked perfectly while I was touching the ends of the cap with my bare hands  :-DD, and since both sides are connected through resistors, I decided the added capacitance was what was fixing it.
So I tried a couple of low value caps (1pF, 5pF, 10pF and 100pF) and they all made things a bit better, but the 100pF one made it just PERFECT  :-DMM!
-> see img1.jpeg

Questions
1. Why is there a cap connected to SCL? 
1.1 That's a capacitor, right?
2. Why is the cap connected across two signal lines?
2.1 I never saw anything like that in I2C lines, is this some advance hack?
2.2 What could the other signal be?
3. Why do you think the touchscreen was defective in the first place?

Last words
This neat toy is now fully functional as far as I can tell. I'm obviously a hobbyist so although I hope this may help somebody else, this opened a bunch of questions for me. I'd be very thankful if some of the old wolves here could clarify wtf is a cap doing in an I2C line and why it is connected across two signal lines.
Sorry if this appears more than once, last two posts didn't work, probably imgs too big
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 05:27:07 am by Dbuezas »
 
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