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Gossen Metrawatt Metrahit 2+ vs. Fluke 177
Posted by
GiskardReventlov
on 14 Jan, 2014 22:45
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Looking at the Gossen Metrawatt Metrahit 2+ versus Fluke 177 and am not sure which one to go with, my old analog Micronta suffered a battery leak. So that's how long it's been since I thought about a multimeter and want to get one that will last as long
and serve as well. But with so many choices I decided to ask here for any wisdom and/or experience with either of these.
I think they aree good enough choices but if I'm really wrong let me know that too.
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#1 Reply
Posted by
EEVblog
on 14 Jan, 2014 22:51
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Both are excellent meters, but both are also not an electronics oriented meter, offering no uA range.
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That's a great answer, thanks. I do want to be a little future proof so I have to decide on something that will do uA. I see Fluke 87 (original, not the V) for reasonable prices that do have uA range. I will do some research on that one. I did see display fixit kits for the Fluke 87 on ebay so that makes me wonder if there's an inherent design flaw in the displays. I saw too the GSM issue.
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I did see display fixit kits for the Fluke 87 on ebay so that makes me wonder if there's an inherent design flaw in the displays. I saw too the GSM issue.
Regarding the display, see modemhead's blog entry
http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-8x-faded-lcd/Regarding the GSM, I *think* it only affects the V. Someone did a video on youtube testing a lot of Fluke meters and GSM. You can watch yourself. (Turn down the volume if you dislike latin? music ).
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#4 Reply
Posted by
deth502
on 15 Jan, 2014 06:11
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Both are excellent meters, but both are also not an electronics oriented meter, offering no uA range.
seems someone is missing a sales opportunity here
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Someone did a video on youtube testing a lot of Fluke meters and GSM. You can watch yourself.
Video says:
Fluke 83 Pass
Fluke 87 Pass
Fluke 87 III Pass
Fluke 83 IV Pass
Fluke 83V Fail
Fluke 87V Fail
Fluke 87V EX Fail
There was an 87V for sale and a potential buyer asked for the serial no. but many of the 87V I saw for sale don't mention the issue and don't provide serial no.
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seems someone is missing a sales opportunity here
Do you mean eevblog should see me as a sales opportunity? If so what's the pitch you're alluding to?
If not, my mistake.
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#7 Reply
Posted by
nanofrog
on 15 Jan, 2014 20:46
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seems someone is missing a sales opportunity here
Do you mean eevblog should see me as a sales opportunity? If so what's the pitch you're alluding to?
If not, my mistake.
Dave offers a micro current device for sale (called the
µCurrent).
It would add micro current capabilities to a meter that doesn't have a uA range, or one that uses a low burden voltage if it does (Dave's uCurrent page has a link that will explain why burden voltage can be an issue).
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Dave offers a micro current device for sale (called the µCurrent).
I understand now. I am in the keep-it-simple-mode right now. But that's good to know about.
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I found that there are Gossen DMM15 and DMM16 but don't see them for sale in N. America.
I did come across an interesting feature on one of the many meter reviews I've looked at. This meter (can't recall which) had a lighted ring around each probe hole and lit the probe holes to match the range switch. Seems like a good idea not quite as definitive as hole-block feature on Gossen meters but better than nothing. Probably additional drain on the battery but always trade offs.
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#10 Reply
Posted by
deth502
on 16 Jan, 2014 20:54
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I found that there are Gossen DMM15 and DMM16 but don't see them for sale in N. America.
I did come across an interesting feature on one of the many meter reviews I've looked at. This meter (can't recall which) had a lighted ring around each probe hole and lit the probe holes to match the range switch. Seems like a good idea not quite as definitive as hole-block feature on Gossen meters but better than nothing. Probably additional drain on the battery but always trade offs.
the cheap mastech meters sold through harbor freight?
the lights go on when there are no probes inserted. if the probes are inserted correctly, the lights go out. if they are inserted incorrectly, the correct one flashes and beeps until remedied.
i got one for shits and giggles a while baack. its not bad for a $40 meter, but do not fool yourself into comparing it with a gossen.
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... but do not fool yourself into comparing it with a gossen.
No idea what the meter was, was not interested so it was forgettable. The probe hole feature is a good idea. Gossen's is more foolproof and offers more safety. It's comparable since I've not seen any similar features in any other meter.
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If you are talking about the shutter locks, a number of manufacturers, past and present, have them.
Hioki looks well made, they call them "terminal shutters". The only problem I see with terminal shutters is that it adds moving parts to the meter. I've not seen a review of the mechanism for terminal shutters on the Gossens. But I wonder what happens if they break or jam.
I would guess Fluke never implemented that feature due to increase in costs and lowered reliability. But the lighted terminal seems like a good idea and would be cheaper and more reliable than a moving part at the expense of battery life.
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I decided to buy a BK 2709b and then keep my eye out for a meter in the $200-300 range later. One thing I like about the BK, that Dave didn't like in the shootout, is that the battery compartment is isolated and the battery uses the typical 2-wire 9-volt connector. My previous meter died due to a battery leak so I guess I'm thinking about this more. But really who wants a crap battery to destroy a high dollar electronic. Good batteries help but sometimes they fail too. The BK through-hole is at the bottom of the battery tray but still it's better than some that have the battery contacts connected directly to the PCB, like the UNI-T and Ideal. If these leak it's very probable that the PCB will get contaminated. I loved the part in #99 part 2 where he's wrestling with the boot on the Ideal to get to the battery compartment. Was there some extra acting in there ala futbol players trying to draw a foul? Good stuff, thanks for the tips and the videos! It saved me from buying a "heap O' shit".
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For what it's worth it seems the price just jumped up on the BK2709b by $10-15. I looked last week at they were in the low $80 now they're in the low $90's and above. Are DMMs a commodity now? I got that feeling when I read some posts around here! I think it's still a good buy at $95 so no regrets.
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#16 Reply
Posted by
Wytnucls
on 21 Jan, 2014 05:29
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The BK is fine, but it has no analogue bar graph. Not a train smash, but at that price point, it should have been included.
The Gossen 16S is discontinued, unfortunately. Once in a while, it appears on eBay in Germany, priced at about 100 USD. It only has a count of 3100, but a good DC volt accuracy at 0.1% of reading plus 1 count and a resolution of 10uV. It has a uA scale, is true RMS and can do AC or AC+DC measurements, up to 20kHz.
For comparison, the BK specs are 0.5%+2 digits, with a max resolution of 100uV and a maximum TRMS frequency of 500Hz!
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The BK is fine, but it has no analogue bar graph. Not a train smash, but at that price point, it should have been included.
The Gossen 16S is discontinued, unfortunately. Once in a while, it appears on eBay in Germany, priced at about 100 USD. It only has a count of 3100, but a good DC volt accuracy at 0.1% of reading plus 1 count and a resolution of 10uV. It has a uA scale, is true RMS and can do AC or AC+DC measurements, up to 20kHz.
For comparison, the BK specs are 0.5%+2 digits, with a max resolution of 100uV and a maximum TRMS frequency of 500Hz!
I'm still keeping my eye out for a more capable model in the future. This is going to be a BIG improvement on my old meter. When/wher does the analog bar graph become useful? I noticed it as a feature but I didn't research it. Dave never got into much detail in the shootouts about it only mentioning it vaguely.
No Gossen or BK but interesting:
http://www.johannes-bauer.com/electronics/mmcomparison/app/index.htmlMaybe he can add Gossen and BK, I will ask.
(Edit: Found a description and it seems that I can add the data myself and run it locally.
http://www.johannes-bauer.com/electronics/mmcomparison/?menuid=2 )
(on same site I saw
http://www.johannes-bauer.com/electronics/conttest/?menuid=2 funny but amazing how bad continuity responses are for those meters)
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#18 Reply
Posted by
Lunasix
on 21 Jan, 2014 22:49
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Yesterday, I made comparison between Gossen 28S (300,000 counts) and Metrix MX53C (50,000 counts). On power up of a power supply, the 2 give the right value (with no bounce), but the Gossen is much faster while the Metrix is thinking, and then displays the result. The Gossen as no bargraph, and the Metrix (recent buy for a not recent model) as one. I think it's good if you have a bargraph, but it's not the most important thing in most cases.
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#19 Reply
Posted by
Wytnucls
on 22 Jan, 2014 04:37
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METRA HIT 28S and 29S multimeters are high performance
precision instruments for laboratory use, as well as for service and
training. With a display range of 300,000 digits, as well as
outstanding accuracy and long-term stability, they fulfill all
requirements for use in calibration and R&D laboratories. The
instruments can be utilized on-site for precision maintenance
and calibration tasks thanks to battery operation.
These are specialized meters to measure steady states accurately, mostly for calibration tasks.
General purpose meters should have a bar graph to observe fast changing parameters, which are too fast to make sense of on a digital display.
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#20 Reply
Posted by
AG6QR
on 22 Jan, 2014 05:37
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I'm still keeping my eye out for a more capable model in the future. This is going to be a BIG improvement on my old meter. When/wher does the analog bar graph become useful? I noticed it as a feature but I didn't research it. Dave never got into much detail in the shootouts about it only mentioning it vaguely.
A bar graph is useful when you've got a measurement that is changing quickly. A bar graph may update 40 times per second. That's about as fast as your eyes can reasonably see, and it's probably 10 times as fast as the digital display can update (your eye can't read a 4 digit display much faster than 1 time per second, anyway). The bar graph is low resolution, high speed. The digital display is high resolution, low speed.
You might use the bar graph for adjusting trimmers for peaks or nulls. Maybe you do the finest adjustment using the digital display, but it's faster to do the coarse adjustment using the bar graph as a guide.
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General purpose meters should have a bar graph to observe fast changing parameters, which are too fast to make sense of on a digital display.
A bar graph is useful when you've got a measurement that is changing quickly. A bar graph may update 40 times per second. That's about as fast as your eyes can reasonably see, and it's probably 10 times as fast as the digital display can update (your eye can't read a 4 digit display much faster than 1 time per second, anyway). The bar graph is low resolution, high speed. The digital display is high resolution, low speed.
You might use the bar graph for adjusting trimmers for peaks or nulls. Maybe you do the finest adjustment using the digital display, but it's faster to do the coarse adjustment using the bar graph as a guide.
This feature makes a lot of sense and seems useful enough for Dave to spend a little more time on. It will be on the next meter I get.
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I noticed on the recent, nice greenlee teardown that has an audible and visual warning for incorrect probe placement. I was reading the BK Precision manual
( not a good manual) and they mention similar. I don't know if it has a visual too.
Input Warning Beeper
The meter has a beeper that warns the user when the test lead is in the current
jack while the meter is switched to make a voltage measurement. Another safety
feature to protect the meter and you.
http://www.bkprecision.com/downloads/manuals/en/2709B_manual.pdf
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#23 Reply
Posted by
Wytnucls
on 29 Jan, 2014 06:00
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That safety aural warning is not very common and is seldom found on budget meters. Other meters with this feature are in the UNI-T UT71 range. Obviously, the safest system is the reliable mechanical blanking of the input jacks, as implemented by Gossen on their MetraHit range.
Interestingly, on their new series of meters, Gossen has combined the A and mA input jacks, making the blanking mechanism simpler.
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#24 Reply
Posted by
Lunasix
on 29 Jan, 2014 08:40
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Many Wavetek / Meterman have this warning beeper when test lead isn't at the right place. For example DM30XL and even the very cheap DM5XP.