Products > Test Equipment
Hall of Fame: eBay Shipping Vs. Murphy's Law
RaymondMack:
--- Quote from: Stray Electron on September 28, 2023, 10:29:46 pm --- My only question is weather that was USPS or UPS?
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The first HP PSU was USPS, but that box was way, way too small and soft (cardboard felt like a wet paper towel). For small, light items USPS has been great (so long as the item is padded).
The second HP PSU was UPS, but the guy who shipped it just straight-up wrapped it in cardboard... I'm amazed the rear heatsink fins weren't broken like the first. (These 6000A series PSUs are super fragile!)
The Boonton standard capacitor was USPS, but... a bubble mailer with no padding or bracing doesn't protect anything. So I don't blame USPS here.
The HP 8175A was FedEx. The box was large enough but the shipper put the front panel right next to the edge/corner of the box and filled the remaining space with bubble wrap. Had it been centered, with bubble wrap padded *around it*--keeping it centered--it would have arrived okay.
The HP optical power meter latch might have been cracked already, but it broke free in the packaging. It came from Canada via UPS. It wasn't packaged very well, but I'll chock this one up to the seller not disclosing the damaged latch. I don't blame UPS here.
The last image with two HP 6000A series PSUs was FedEx, but the seller shipped this like a buffoon. Who sets two PSUs *directly* against one another? For god's sake, at least put a sheet of cardboard between them... And stacking them sideways is probably why the displays fell off. But who knows. These things are like fabergé eggs.
Over-all I'd rate USPS (in my area) to be 10/10 for small things and 6/10 for larger stuff on not breaking things and 10/10 on shipping speed (they move packages through their network on Sundays and even holidays, UPS and FedEx ground don't do that). UPS gets a 4/10 on heavy stuff and 8/10 for small stuff (almost every Amazon package is crushed regardless of how light or small it is). Almost everything I get from UPS that is heavy or large is damaged. And it's not the end delivery guy's fault (I went to school with him, super nice guy). It's somewhere in the transit chain before him. Finally, FedEx is maybe a 7/10 for heavy/large items and 10/10 for small stuff. So yeah, I prefer FedEx, but most sellers I buy from use UPS. Every time I see a UPS tracking number, a small part of me dies inside.
RaymondMack:
--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on September 29, 2023, 11:32:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: tautech on September 29, 2023, 11:24:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: coppercone2 on September 29, 2023, 09:15:00 pm ---in case someone does not understand, the point is that eventually a shipping company (evidence points to china) is gonna beat so much crap into a shipping container that it will achieve a fusion reaction, neutronium or possibly a black hole
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::)
You really have no idea.
How much shipping from Asia do you actually do, let's say in the last 10 yrs as I have and never, I repeat never received a damaged instrument.
Whereas a 100+lb machine I shipped across the US to be containered in LA arrived here with parts falling from its packaging.
--- End quote ---
China doesn't deserve all the blame, but the joke is still funny.
I also see totally different reasons for the damage in the two countries. In China they are trying to squeeze every last bit of value out of everything, so tight packing is a must. In the US it is a combination of incompetence (not understanding how to protect shipments) and laziness (just not willing to take the effort to handle things properly). The second part is baked into US culture as is reflected by milspec requirements for shipping containers. They include requirements for dropping things from 5 to 30 meters and rolling shipping boxes down long hills in addition to all the shake rattle and roll from tracked vehicles, aircraft landings and parachute drops.
--- End quote ---
For the record, I have never received a broken part from China. And most of the packages are bubble mailers. So, clearly, they are doing something right. But so is USPS, since they are often the end deliverer after customs. As for domestic Chinese shipping, I couldn't say.
As for the US, second hand sellers (on eBay, Amazon, and so on) are just normal people who often don't know anything about proper shipping. It is not laziness or incompetence, but rather ignorance. They simply don't know any better. That said, sellers who do ship regularly, and continue to use horrible shipping practices (after receiving feedback to their crap shipping), are lazy/incompetent. But that isn't just a US thing. I get packages from Canada that are shipped like crap too. So I would never use laziness/incompetence as a blanket statement, it really doesn't represent sellers as a whole--or the US in general. Many sellers I buy from do in fact provide much better packaging than is required (usually polyurethane spray foam padding). Ignorance is ultimately the issue here. One-off sales from people who rarely, if ever, ship a package or misers/buffoons who do ship frequently are the problem.
RaymondMack:
--- Quote from: watchmaker on September 30, 2023, 01:15:42 pm ---[...]
Without a doubt, it was his driver. Twice in one route? I shipped it to him at work at the Pilots and Mates School. No problems.
Told the story to UPS who did not care. So it goes. FedEx would not have paid.
--- End quote ---
I have the same problem with UPS. It frustrates me to no end. It's not my delivery guy's fault either (I've talked with him about it). Problem for me, comes down to sellers thinking I'm being dishonest when I report a damaged item. UPS won't let recipients file damage claims. So I'm forced to work with sellers on filing them. Last year I bought two large, heavy pieces of Tektronix/HP equipment from the same seller and BOTH arrived damaged... The seller refused to believe me, despite ample photos of the packages before being opened and while unpacking them, CSI Miami style. He thought *I* was the one who damaged them. It was insane. Said he had never had a damaged claim before--which is hard to believe. Ironically, he used very poor packaging technique: two layers of quarter-inch bubble wrap and too small of boxes. Probably would have ended up damaged though FedEx with how he packaged them. Some semi-rigid foam with cutouts for the knobs and other protrusions would have worked a whole lot better. Bubble wrap is really only good for small, light stuff--not massive/heavy equipment.
tautech:
Heavy/multiple shipments are easy.
Knock together a custom pallet and bind all boxes to it and with a roll of cling film packaging wrap cover the lot well and before the last few layers add address labels and stacking instructions on all 5 visible faces like TOP STACK ONLY and FRAGILE if/when required.
RaymondMack:
--- Quote from: tautech on September 30, 2023, 08:54:58 pm ---Heavy/multiple shipments are easy.
Knock together a custom pallet and bind all boxes to it and with a roll of cling film packaging wrap cover the lot well and before the last few layers add address labels and stacking instructions on all 5 visible faces like TOP STACK ONLY and FRAGILE if/when required.
--- End quote ---
That only works for commercial locations in the US. Most freight shipments do not ship to home address because the semi-trucks (or box-trucks) they use cannot get in and out of most residential locations. Or have a dock / room to use a pallet jack (i.e., gravel driveways makes them pointless). That said, sometimes they will ship to residences, and my god, I have personally witnessed the most amazing driving skills maneuvering a massive truck into seemingly impossible to fit locations.
Anyways, the simplest answer for second-hand sellers is foam: Either soft or semi-rigid sheets coupled with a little bit of bubble wrap (to avoid scratches on the equipment) can stop most damage. If the equipment has protrusions, use cut-outs in the foam and layer the foam in sheets. The next is using a box with sturdy cardboard (soft cardboard boxes should be tossed) with around 1.5 to 2 inches of spare space *around* the item. This provides enough room for padding to dampen any impacts and stop most damage. At this point UPS or FedEx should be able to deliver even heavy equipment without issue.
For serious second-hand sellers with large volume of sales, polyurethane spray foam is the way to go. You can buy the grey plastic rolls and dispensing equipment to save time and money over using FedEx/UPS to package items. This is as close to commercial molded Styrofoam or other types of prefabricated inserts that small businesses can achieve.
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