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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: tinhead on October 24, 2010, 05:01:32 am

Title: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on October 24, 2010, 05:01:32 am
The topic is about how to hack another one Chinese DSO (Tekway/Hantek) up to 200MHz bandwidth.


-short history

When my Tek TDS754D died some time ago i had to find a replacement. At that time (2009) I ordered few
cheap known china DSOs and tested them in detail:
- UNI-T (UT2102CE)
- Rigol (DS1102E)
- Atten (ADS1102CE)
- Tekway (DST1102B)

Finally i decided to take Tekway DST1102B instead of Rigol DS1102E because :
(ATTEN and UNI-T was at that time simply useless crap)

- 7" high quality display (Innolux AT070TN83 V1) with 800 x 480 resolution
- display viewing angle designed for "on a shelf above the workbench" use
- DPO-like functionality
- 2500 wfrms/s update rate
- Linux OS on good known Samsung ARM S3C2440 SoC
- modern firmware with lot of unique (in the <1k USD DSO price class) features

Tekway call these model "Tekway DSO 2.0 Platform", and yes, there was "DSO 1.0 Platform" in 2008-2009
http://www.tekwayins.com/product.asp?ArticleID=7 (http://www.tekwayins.com/product.asp?ArticleID=7)
but that completely different gear (with 2.5k memory depth, 320x240 display resolution and TEK TDS2000 like firmware)

In the meantime there are as well Hantek DSOs/Handhelds using that Tekway DSO 2.0 platform, as well some rebadged
models (some made by Tekway, other by Hantek) from Extech, PCE, Voltcraft, Protek, ICEL, AKIP, Redsea, Zhongce, etc !!!


-what inside Tekway/Hantek

i have reverse-engineered the hardware and made schematics:

 -hw0 (produced from Dec 2009 to Feb 2011)    ready
  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg56754/#msg56754 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg56754/#msg56754)
 
 -hw1005 (produced from Feb 2011 to Jun 2011)    ready errata in work
 
 -hw1007 (produced Jun 2011 to xxx 2013 , DSOs and MSOs with S/N < 15000)    ready
  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg214613/#msg214613 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg214613/#msg214613)

 -handheld hw1001 (S/N < 15000)    in work
 
 -DSO5xxxP hw1.0    on to do list I've made alrady schematics of the new input circuit: 
  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg264085/#msg264085 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg264085/#msg264085)


- before you hack made a backup - if you wish
 
It make sense to make backup of whole NAND flash (firmware+setting) before any hack attempt.
I have prepared easy to use "firmware update" files, simply choose your model, download the tool
and read the included Readme.txt to proceed.

For all following "B" model benchtop DSO with S/N < 15000
 - Tekway DST1062B, DST1102B, DST1202B
 - Hantek DSO5062B, DSO5102B, DSO5202B
 - Voltcraft DSO-3062C, DSO-1062D
 - Zhongce DF1202CL, DF1102CL, DF1062CL
 - Protek 3006, 3010, 3110, 3120

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg35683/#msg35683 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg35683/#msg35683)


For all following "BM/BMV" models benchtop DSO with S/N < 15000
 - Hantek DSO5062BM, DSO5102BM, DSO5202BM
 - Hantek DSO5062BMV, DSO5102BMV, DSO5202BMV

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg111917/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg111917/)


For all following "B" and "D" models benchtop MSO with S/N < 15000
 - Tekway MST1062B, MST1102B, MST1202B
 - Hantek MSO5062D, MSO5102D, MSO5202D
 - Voltcraft MSO5062B, MSO5102B

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg185074/#msg185074 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg185074/#msg185074)


For all following "B", "BV" and "S" models handheld DSO with S/N < 15000
 - Hantek DSO1062B, DSO1102B, DSO1202B
 - Hantek DSO1062BV, DSO1102BV, DSO1202BV
 - Hantek DSO1062S, DSO1122S, DSO1152S
 - Extech MS6060, MS6100, MS6200

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg86825/#msg86825 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg86825/#msg86825)


For all following "P" models benchtop DSO with ANY S/N
 - Hantek DSO5072P, DSO5102P, DSO5202P
 - Falcon DSO100C1G (this one http://falconindia.biz/products_desc2.aspx?id=120 (http://falconindia.biz/products_desc2.aspx?id=120) )

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg264194/#msg264194 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg264194/#msg264194)

For the cute old Tekway DST1000/DST3000/DST4000 please PM me.

For all others (not listed above) DSO/MSO/Handhelds  (e.g. with S/N > 15000) please use integrated command line tool "nanddump", do a search in thread to check how that might work.


When you need to restore previously created backup, check the Readme.txt from backup tools above and/or following links:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg75015/#msg75015 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg75015/#msg75015)
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/Tekway_MSO (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/Tekway_MSO)


- the bandwidth hack

As far i know, all DSO/MSO/Handhelds since 2009 (so yes, even the latest "P" models) can be hacked.
To hack the bandwidth all you need to do is to rename one file in DSO root directory
- when you have 60MHz/70MHz model (no matter if benchtop or handheld) you must rename /dst1062b to /dst1202b
- when you have 100MHz model (no matter if benchtop or handheld) you must rename /dst1102b to /dst1202b
- when you have 150MHz model (no matter if benchtop or handheld) you must rename /dst1152b to /dst1202b

then after second reboot (yes, you have to reboot twice) the new bandwidth (and when you decided to go
up to 200MHz bandwidth the 2ns/DIV timbase as well) will be available.

To do this you can use that tool (then simply choose what bandwidth you wish and click on "Change bandwidth")

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg91877/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg91877/)

or that tool (then go to "Shell F2" tab and execute there for example  "mv /dst1062b /dst1202b")

http://peter.dreisiebner.at/dso-usb-tool/ (http://peter.dreisiebner.at/dso-usb-tool/)

or you can connect via UART to DSOs Linux shell and work from there. You will of course need to open the enclosure
and connect to PC via UART to USB converter (e.g. ebay CP2102 UART to USB etc). For the UART pinout check pictures below.


- optional - the bootlogo hack

you might wish to change the boot screen logo as well (not necessary for bandwidth hack).

For all following "B" model benchtop DSO with S/N < 15000
- Tekway DST1062B, DST1102B, DST1202B
- Hantek DSO5062B, DSO5102B, DSO5202B
- Voltcraft DSO1062D, DSO3062C
- Zhongce DF1202CL, DF1102CL, DF1062CL (i don't have logos from Zhongce)

Download, when missing, all the boot logos
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/136103/all_logos.zip (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/136103/all_logos.zip)
and copy to yor DSOs /logo directory

You will have as well to edit /logotype and /logotype.dis files. The best is to use "vi" editor on the DSO shell,
you might as well copy these two file to PC and edit there. All you need is to change the DSO name from
what it is to what you wish to see, e.g. for Hantek DSO5062B you need to change in /logotype the dst1062b to dst1202b
and in /logotype.dis the hantek_DSO5062B to hantek_DSO5202B.

If you have questions - use search, or ask in this thread.


For all other following benchtop and handheld models with S/N < 15000
- Hantek Handheld DSO1062B/BV, DSO1102B/BV, DSO1202B/BV
- Hantek Handheld DSO1062S, DSO1102S, DSO1152S
- Tekway MSO MST1062B, MST1102B, MST1202B
- Hantek MSO MSO5062D, MSO5102D, MSO5202D
- Voltcraft MSO MSO5062D, MSO5102D, MSO5202D
- Hantek DSO DSO5062BV/BMV, DSO5102BV/BMV, DSO5202BV/BMV
- Extech MS6060, MS6100, MS6200

you have to edit a specific execuatable (as the logo is compiled into it), all necessary tools are here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg200040/#msg200040 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg200040/#msg200040)

For all other following benchtop and handheld models with S/N > 15000 (exept "P" models, they can have ANY S/N)
- Hantek DSO5072P, DSO5102P, DSO5202P
- Hantek MSO5074F, MSO5074FG
- Tekway/Hantek MSO7000B series
- Tekway/Hantek DSO/Handheld/MSO with S/N > 15000 and hw1.0 or hw1.10 (so all with S3C2416 SoC)

All i can tell for now is that the boot logo seems to be compiled into display driver


-optional - frontend hack (models with SN < 15000)

It seem that since some time Hantek/Tekway/Voltcraft is using not that great combination of resistors in frontend, it was nearly perfect originaly but they changed it to what is today. Saving everywhere (or for reason to gie all hackers bad respons?) ^^
No matter, we can fix it easily, for more information and lot of measurment results see
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg212054/#msg212054 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg212054/#msg212054)


-optional - EEPROM licensing hack
sometimes one need or wish to enable some extra things, like LAN, more memory, video, etc. The licensing for these functions is stored in EEPROM, see here how to make use of them:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg467313/#msg467313 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/msg467313/#msg467313)


-bug list

see attached - note, this list is not up to date, i have to work on it :\[/s]


-SDK, LabView, other hardware hacks, tons of other things

simply check the post below

-Hantek's OneDrive

https://onedrive.live.com/?#cid=6C60A056648D9011 (https://onedrive.live.com/?id=6C60A056648D9011%21107&cid=6C60A056648D9011&group=0)



-and finally my OneDrive with hacks, firmwares, tools, etc:

http://1drv.ms/1hf4SgO (http://1drv.ms/1hf4SgO)
updated links ... grr 1drv (https://1drv.ms/f/s!AiY46m4u993EgSg4ZGmBREL7uZRz)

If you like what there and wish to support me/my hacks, then feel free to donate,
there is PayPal "donate button" when you click on my "home website" icon @ my eevblog forum profile.

Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on October 24, 2010, 05:03:32 am
:ALL OTHER HACKS and INFOS:


If you wish to connect to the UART, check attached pictures

all other hacks temp removed ... in last 4yrs there was so much said, hacked and released that one can easily get lost. Wht i'm doing now is to sort all that knownledge, and split into models/hw version sections. All that information will be the posten here and of course on my OneDrive (see above post for link).

Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: Hypernova on October 24, 2010, 07:48:11 am
Nifty, you would think the other vendors have learned a thing or two after the rigol incident.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: cybergibbons on October 24, 2010, 09:44:46 am
Thanks - that's really interesting.

As far as I know, both the GW-Instek and Rigol scopes deal with all of the display logic in the FPGA, so have quite limited ability. The UI on these scopes looks a lot more fancy.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: saturation on October 24, 2010, 10:48:54 am
Awesome job, tinman and welcome the eevblog, what a great way to start.

Don't know much about tekway, but now its worth looking in to.



Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: saturation on October 24, 2010, 11:11:27 am
I have a sneaking suspicion letting the hack info continue and not be suppressed is actually good for business. 

Consider:

If sales of the Rigol 1052E double, it would compensate for each single lost sale of the 1102E

But If the 1102E is really just a factory hacked 1052E, then the manufacturing cost to make either scopes is equal, so they are not losing any sales at all, just making more.  The excess inventory of 1102E can always have their case stickers changed and firmware reburned to downgrade them into 1052E.  So the only cost to make an 1102E over a 1052E is labor to do the firmware and casing decal changes.

If the owner bricks his scope and asks for factory repair, the unit is not under warranty, and now not only did they make a sale on a scope, they can charge for repair

Rigol now has a bigger reputation, free publicity, more people own it, know its electronics intimately and thus have a better appreciation of its capabilities, and will consider buying their other products now too

So, its a win win.

If you look at the trends in electronics, there is a market of makers and hackers so manufacturers are addressing their wants.  Hakko's new iron, the FX888, Agilent's DMM skins, Hakko 936 skins etc., certainly isn't directed towards professional electronics.

(http://www.hakko.com/english/oshirase/images/090330_04.jpg)

(http://cp.home.agilent.com/upload/cmc_upload/CLP_HHSkin2.jpg)

(http://c0456141.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/images/large/hak/hak936-rc-r.jpg)

Which prompted Fluke to make this ad:

http://register.fluke.com/globalforms/goyellow/index.html (http://register.fluke.com/globalforms/goyellow/index.html)

(http://register.fluke.com/globalforms/goyellow/images/index_032.jpg)



Nifty, you would think the other vendors have learned a thing or two after the rigol incident.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: Hypernova on October 24, 2010, 12:10:42 pm
I have a sneaking suspicion letting the hack info continue and not be suppressed is actually good for business. 

Consider:

If sales of the Rigol 1052E double, it would compensate for each single lost sale of the 1102E

But If the 1102E is really just a factory hacked 1052E, then the manufacturing cost to make either scopes is equal, so they are not losing any sales at all, just making more.  The excess inventory of 1102E can always have their case stickers changed and firmware reburned to downgrade them into 1052E.  So the only cost to make an 1102E over a 1052E is labor to do the firmware and casing decal changes.

If the owner bricks his scope and asks for factory repair, the unit is not under warranty, and now not only did they make a sale on a scope, they can charge for repair

Rigol now has a bigger reputation, free publicity, more people own it, know its electronics intimately and thus have a better appreciation of its capabilities, and will consider buying their other products now too

So, its a win win.

If you look at the trends in electronics, there is a market of makers and hackers so manufacturers are addressing their wants.  Hakko's new iron, the FX888, Agilent's DMM skins, Hakko 936 skins etc., certainly isn't directed towards professional electronics.

Nifty, you would think the other vendors have learned a thing or two after the rigol incident.

Well, that certainly reminds me of the conspiracy theory that Microsoft was loose on copy protection in the early years to ensure that they get the market share in first.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: PsI-On on October 24, 2010, 01:08:38 pm
Hi tinman,

Can you post some more pictures please?

Looks like I'll be picking one of these up in China next month ;o)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 24, 2010, 01:28:34 pm
cant find it in ebay, just the 200MHz version. maybe they are pulling all 100MHz back to upgrade to 2.04.SP1 FW? ??? just speculation, not related to anyone who is still live or dead.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: PsI-On on October 24, 2010, 01:42:51 pm
They're listed on www.taobao.com (http://www.taobao.com)

Be warned, checking prices on taobao.com will leave you feeling sick every time!

-P
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on October 24, 2010, 02:00:56 pm
cant find it in ebay, just the 200MHz version. maybe they are pulling all 100MHz back to upgrade to 2.04.SP1 FW? ??? just speculation, not related to anyone who is still live or dead.

a month ago electrolab.com had some 100MHz versions. It can have something to do with the rumoured Hantek/Tekway deal,
but it can be just whatever. The distributor in Germany have still enough in stock, and of course taobao is full of sellers anyway.


Nifty, you would think the other vendors have learned a thing or two after the rigol incident.

Well, there are many competitors on low cost DSO market. That why probably every company have to reduce the costs.
You can hack almost all low cost DSOs, the question for me was only "which SOC/µC inside, which OS".

With Samsung S3C2440 and Linux 2.6.13 was easy thing, much easier than with TI DSP or pure FPGA based DSOs.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on October 24, 2010, 02:15:54 pm
maybe they are pulling all 100MHz back to upgrade to 2.04.SP1 FW? ???

i don't think that they will every try. By design the DSO is using these few config files, as this is Linux these can be always changed.
Of course Tekway/Hantek can try to disable UART port, JTAG can't be disabled. But even if, you will be still able to make backup
of the firmware via JTAG, to "patch" it on your mini2440 board and to restore it back to DSO.

The only chance is to change the PCB (the low pass filter around AD8370), which costs more money.
EDIT: Actually there are some differences between model,  however a hacked 60Mhz DSO can be still good up to 180MHz (-3db)
which is i think good value.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: slburris on October 24, 2010, 02:24:41 pm
Any idea if Tekway makes Hantek's handheld oscilloscopes too?

Do you know if the Hantek DSO-1060 could be modified to be
a DSO-1200?  This would change a 60Mhz scope into a 200Mhz scope.

Great information, I bet there's going to be tons of discussion
about this topic!

Scott
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on October 24, 2010, 02:27:59 pm
Hi tinman,

Can you post some more pictures please?

Looks like I'll be picking one of these up in China next month ;o)

Thanks.

sure, some PCB pics attached. As you can see the PCB is very nice routed, these guys did good job

For the outside pics check the tekway/hantek websites.

Btw, the DSO is fanless, which is good.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on October 24, 2010, 02:33:29 pm
Any idea if Tekway makes Hantek's handheld oscilloscopes too?

Do you know if the Hantek DSO-1060 could be modified to be
a DSO-1200?  This would change a 60Mhz scope into a 200Mhz scope.

Great information, I bet there's going to be tons of discussion
about this topic!

Scott


the other Hantek DSOs are made by Hantek itself (or others), but definitely not by Tekway.

Tekway started to made DSOs 3years ago and they never had handheld based devices.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: slburris on October 24, 2010, 02:34:55 pm
I've posted a pointer to this thread over at RCGroups site.

Scott
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: Mechatrommer on October 24, 2010, 02:53:24 pm
whats with the blank capacitor? top left near the samsung? 4th picture
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: PsI-On on October 24, 2010, 03:10:37 pm
Looks like it's probably some sort of sounder, I can see what might be a transistor drive circuit feeding off the negative pin!

Maybe battery backup?!
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on October 24, 2010, 03:18:55 pm
whats with the blank capacitor? top left near the samsung? 4th picture

That's where the buzzer was soldered. During debuging the uncofigured Samsung SOC was making me crazy
(driving the buzzer high), so i removed it.

Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: PsI-On on October 24, 2010, 03:34:41 pm
I wonder if you can redirect the terminal session to the 7" LCD and use a USB keyboard (that would make an awesome hackable scope)
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on October 24, 2010, 05:15:55 pm
I wonder if you can redirect the terminal session to the 7" LCD and use a USB keyboard (that would make an awesome hackable scope)

The DSO is like a friendlyarm 2440 board, with FPGA and ADC connected via I/O.
Afaik you will have to recompile the 2.6.13 kernel to redirect terminal session to the TFT.

So in principle yes, with recompiled kernel you can redirect the terminal to TFT, use a usb keyboard
(or on screen like xvkbd with touch screen if you connect one) and if you need the DSO functionality
you have only to start the DSO app from the shell (/dso.exe). Of course the /dso.exe line in rcS
need to be commented out.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on October 24, 2010, 05:26:06 pm
attached fast rise time 10MHz (1ns rise time) test signal measurement.

It is not really perfect example just because the 50Ohm termination
and cable loss, but already 1.8ns which give you an idea what's possible.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: PsI-On on October 25, 2010, 11:03:09 am
Tinman, have you tried this hack on the DST1062B?

Do you know if the DST1062B has the same components as the DST1102B?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: ngkee22 on October 25, 2010, 02:11:27 pm
I did find this one for sale, but it is already at 200Mhz.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270568563296&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270568563296&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on October 25, 2010, 03:56:12 pm
I did find this one for sale, but it is already at 200Mhz.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270568563296&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270568563296&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)

yes, right now "Electrolab" have only 200MHz, but they had 100MHz during last months, e.g.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270603792546 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270603792546)

However they never had 60Mhz versions, maybe just question of profit ?
They known Measurements Equipment provider, just ask them for 60Mhz.


Probably the same (pprofit question) is for "GoodluckSell"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280552591608 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280552591608)

If you compare the price on ebay on taobao.com you will see that a 60Mhz Tekway/Hantek should costs about 400-450$.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on October 25, 2010, 05:09:57 pm
Tinman, have you tried this hack on the DST1062B?

Do you know if the DST1062B has the same components as the DST1102B?

Thanks.

Afaik yes, EDIT: check the later in this thread published schematic
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on October 31, 2010, 11:15:11 pm
from Rigol thread ...

that's the self-calibration unit, it runs with 125Mhz.
 
Do you mean that it has a 125Meg oscillator on board which is used for the sole purpose of selfcalibration???



I'm replying here just because this have nothing to do with Rigol:

Tekway is using 100MHz XO, however due only 4 ADCs in last 3 highest timebase ranges the FPGA PLL output is set to 125MHz.
Exact the same clock is used for normative-actual value comparison, there are some presets (files) in the firmware for pulse, edge and overtime compare.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 13, 2010, 04:42:42 pm
another user in forum recieved Hantek DSO, he reported already that the jtAG pin header is not soldered, so you will have to solder 20pin 2mm header or just to use attached firmware update which will do firmweare backup to USB stick for you.

How to use :

1. unzip the attached fw2dump.zip. You will find 3 files (dst1kb_9.99.9_cli(111111.0).up, nanddump and asgard)
2. unplug any USB cables from your DSO first!
3. copy dst1kb_9.99.9_cli(111111.0).up to usb stick (delete all other files from stick!), put into DSO and execute the firmware updated.
4. after update switch off DSO and unplug the stick, switch on the DSO back. The firmware version will be not changed, but thats ok
5. copy the "nanddump" and "asgard" to usb stick (delete everything else from the stick!), plug into DSO and wait 10-15 sec.
6. plug the DSO via USB to your PC. If the LED on your stick didn't started to blink, unplug the USB cable and plug it again after
   additional 15 seconds (this is because how the usb agent is working on the DSO)
7. the LED on usb stick will start now to blink, the DSO is dumping itself to the usb stick. This can take up to 5 minutes, so just be patient.
   Sometimes the usb agent on DSO is a bit slow/srtange acting, so watch your LED - if not blinking retry just and wait few secs more between step 6 and 8
8. After the 5 mins unplug the stick first, then the usb cable (or the selfdump will start again)


On the usb stck the "asgard" file has been now renamed to "asgard.done", this is just protection to now execute it over and over again.
You will find 3 additional files :
boot.bin (thats the vivi bootloader)
kernel.bin (the kernel)
root.bin (root FS)

All dumps are done with NAND OOB blocks, so we can restore them any time later if we need to original version.

This step can be executed on all devices, Hantek/Tekway or Protek, it is modifying only usg.agent and works even with older Tekway DSOs (A series which have kernel 2.4), so we good for a while. it is kernel 2.4 and 2.6 compatible, and it will not break linux itself.

for Tekway/Hantek DSO user:
you can use the asgard script to whatever you like, the DSO will now enumerate for attached usb ticks, if any present for file named asgard on it, if present it will execute the asgard scipt. Of course be careful with copying/moving things.

for Hantek DSO users:if you have such dump, zip/rar it and post it here, so i can then prepare a hacked firmware updated to allow you to "update" your DSO to 200MHz without UART/terminal/JTAG, like for Tekway DSOs.


General note:
if one of my updates is stopping to work, with firmware update error then you can be sure nothing broken on your scope.
Then probably Tekway or Hantek did changed the gpg magic and we have dump firmware over JTAG to find the magic again.

if during the hack the DSO is reporting that the firmware is older than installed or didn't worked, then let me know your firmware version number - then i will have to increase the number too.

EDIT: I updated this firmware-selfdump hack to version 9.99.9 making it firmware versiond indenepndant (works with all known Tekway/Hantek firmware versions now)



updated, go to here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg35683#msg35683 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg35683#msg35683)
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 14, 2010, 02:48:56 am
here we go ... again

i got Hantek firmware dump from another user here in forum (thx G***!) and installed on my Tekway DSO, it is booting without any issues.

With this firmware i was able to prepare a hack which will switch your Hantek DSO5062B or DSO5102B to DSO5202B
- so again we have 200MHz bw for free - this time for Hantek DSO's


All you need to do is to copy the attached dst1kb_2.06.9_cli(101031.0).up to USB stick and run a firmware update on your Hantek DSO.

If you have higher version of firmware on your Hantek DSO already, please make a firmware dump with JTAG or with:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg23807#msg23807 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg23807#msg23807)

and post it here or send me a message


Check here (generic hack for all versions):
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg24564#msg24564 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg24564#msg24564)


There is only one thing missing, Hantek didn't included boot logos for all models, so you DSO will still shows up during boot your old model name, but who really cares about boot logo.

The System Status shows up right version, the TTScope is displaying 200MHz model and of course we have 200MHz bw and 2ns time base.

Some technical things:

Hantek have newer verion of firmware as Tekway so few things changed, if you wish to play with JTAG/UART way of hacking you will have
(additionally to all those steps described in my first post) to edit another one file in root directory (logotype.dis).
You will need to edit it and change whatever you see there to "hantek_DSO5202B". If you don't do it the the bootlogo will
be not loaded, but your DSO will still boot-up.

What's new in Hantek firmware 2.06.2 (compared to Tekway 2.05.xx)
- French/German/Chinese/English/Japanese menu language supported instead of only Chinese/English
- CSV export to USB (up to 40k samples only, but better than nothinig)
- a bit better export menu (much easier to recognize what your saving)
- more colors for menu/submenu/background (black/green/pink/yellow/blue instead of only blue)
- trigger works now stable up to 300MHz (of course after hacked to 200MHz bw)

What Hantek made worse than Tekway:
- TTScope virtual panel is crippled, the developer who did changed the virtual TFT size was probably blind or not aware that
   this DSO have wide-screen TFT ... anyway, i did changed the affected EnglishResource.dll, so just unzip the attached
   into your TTScope\Language directory (overwrite the org. file)


For Tekway DSO users:
i will publish in the next days an 2.06.2 firmware update for Tekway DSOs, this update will change your Tekway DSO to Hantek DSO,
so you will be able to use the new features too. Most files seems to be same, but i need to compare and debug them a bit before i post anything.


check here :
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg24564#msg24564 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg24564#msg24564)

Wondering if Hantek will ever publish the firmware source code, it is GPL licensed so normaly they should do it.
It would be easier to compile own hacks. my current dev environment is a mix of some Samsung S3C2440 boards, no easy to match memory mappings
and other things to compile for example WiFi modules (i think would be nice to be able to save CSV/waveforms/snapshots over WLAN)

.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: g***! on November 14, 2010, 09:43:13 am
Hello there, great article....I got a bit of a buzz when I switched my computer on and saw my firmware running on your Tekway!
I did notice that TT Scope's driver does not want to party with windows 7!
I have not tried the downlosd yet....but will do very shortly....I wonder will this cause a surge in Tekway/Hantek sales. 
It certainly appears a much safer mod to do than the Rigol one!  I will post the photos of the internals later, need to tidy them a bit first....now i'm off to install some firmware!
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: g***! on November 14, 2010, 10:03:22 am
Yes tinhead, there is now a 200Mhz DSO5102B!  I will let the scope warm up for an hour or so, and then re-adjust the scope probes.  Should I do a recallibration as well?
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: saturation on November 14, 2010, 11:10:15 am
FANTASTIC!  You guys are awesome, this is what real EE is all about!
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 14, 2010, 03:50:49 pm
Yes tinhead, there is now a 200Mhz DSO5102B!  I will let the scope warm up for an hour or so, and then re-adjust the scope probes.  Should I do a recallibration as well?

even if all model are doing self calibration with 125MHz, you still need to recalibrate the DSO.

The TTScope, isn't signed for Win7 ? i believe it is.

and yeah, thanks for the firmware dump, enjoy the 200Mhz BW!



Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: g***! on November 14, 2010, 06:43:15 pm
I will try reinstalling the TT scope, in case I have made some fundamental error in the install....I get a no scope connected error, has to be a driver error of some sort. 
Are the Tekway/Hantek firmwares directly interchangeable, what I mean is, if say Tekway brought out an update, could it be applied to a Hantek without having to be modified? 
Many thanks again for the massive effort yesterday, I got quite a surprise when I switched on the PC...to find a working firmware update! ;D
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 14, 2010, 11:14:17 pm
Many thanks again for the massive effort yesterday, I got quite a surprise when I switched on the PC...to find a working firmware update! ;D

you welcome

Are the Tekway/Hantek firmwares directly interchangeable, what I mean is, if say Tekway brought out an update, could it be applied to a Hantek without having to be modified?  

Before i answer this question let's take a look what inside both DSO:

standard linux dirs:
/bin - no diff
/dev - no diff
/etc - no diff (which is funny, Hantek device is still tagged as Tekway in many scripts)
/lib - new in firmware 2.06.2 is libiconv.so.2.3.0, to support the language switching
/sbin - no diff
/usr - no diff

custom DSO dirs:
/dso/app - no diff
/dso/driver - lcd.ko and fpga.ko updated fw 2.06.2
/usr/bin/gpg149arm - no diif (there is the gpg binary responsible for firmware decryption)
/logo - no diff (there are icns used by DSO UI)
/OurLanguages - this one is new for fw 2.06.2, it contains text files with translation for menu, so in principle you can edit it and add your language
The fw 2.05.xx have hardcoded english/chinese, no really smart but typical for early firmwares

in root dir:

dso.exe - that's the DSO UI, will be started by rcS
fpga.exe - this is a executable used to load/check FPGA
fpga.conf - a very interessting configuration file, depends on settings the FPGA is slower/faster or using different i/o (like for 500MSs models)
help.db - SQLite DB containing help for UI
dn.rbf - FPGA configuration, different for all model families (250MSs models have own, 500MSs have own and 1GSs have own)

and some already mentioned files used for model identification.

The 2.06.2 update script was (you will find this in your fw dump, NAND have always one or more older updates "saved" but visible only in dump):

[DST type]dst1000b
[soft version]2.06.2(101028.0)
[type]123
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/dso.exe /dso_update.exe
[cmd] rm /logo/ -rf
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/logo /
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/dso-lcd.ko /dso/driver/dso-lcd.ko
[cmd] rm /OurLanguages -rf
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/OurLanguages /
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/libiconv.so.2.3.0  /lib/libiconv.so.2.3.0
[cmd] rm /lib/libiconv.so.2
[cmd] ln -s /lib/libiconv.so.2.3.0 /lib/libiconv.so.2
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/help.db /help.db
[cmd] rm /logotype.dis
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/logotype.dis /logotype.dis
[cmd] rm /sys.inf
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/sys.inf /sys.inf
[cmd] rm /cur_acq.type
[cmd] sync
[cmd] sync
[cmd] sync
[end]

So in principle yes, currently both firmwares are directly interchangeable - but - that might change.
I would say, don't just download and try to update your DSO, if something geos wrong you will brick your DSO.


For sure, if you have fw backup/dump and JTAG cable you will be able to unbrick your device, but just be warned.

A better way is to check first what inside new firmware, to evaluate it and then to update.
A firmware test can be done on DSO itself :
- connect via UART
- terminate dso.exe (by ctrl+C)
- insert USB stick with decrypted update files (they will be mounted to /mnt folder)
- insmod new .ko modules (if necessary)
- execute new files and test how the device works

Same can be done on Samsung S3C2440 dev board (like FriendyArm 2440), but it is better to do it on DSO just because of
the fact that DSO have all the other hardware (ADCs, FPGA)

To decrypt firmware update:
- download the .up file from Hantek/Tekway website
- download and install GPG
- run gpg -d dstxxxxxxx.up > dstxxxxxx.gz (when asked for password type 0571tekway)
- gunzip the dstxxxxxx.gz
- untar the resulting file (it is dstxxxxxx. )
- untar again the resulting DST1000_4000.tar

To create new/custom firmware
- tar the folder "tekwayup_client" and the upend file to dst1000_4000.up.tar
- tar the resulting dst1000_4000.up.tar to DST1KB_version.tar and remove the .tar extension
  (for example dst1kb_2.06.8(101231.0) )
- Gzip the DST1KB_version to DST1KB_version.gz and remove the .gz extension
- encrypt with gpg -c DST1KB_version (when asked for key type 0571tekway)
- Rename the resulting DST1KB_version.gpg to DST1KB_version.up

What important to know :
- if you type/use wrong password or Tekway/Hantek change the password, your DSO will still not get bricked because the update will get canceled
- use "move" instead of "copy" in "update" script (or chmod 777 filename after copy)
- ensure that whatever inside folder "tekwayup_client" is listed in upend file too
(this means the "upend" file is a list of files and folders contained in "tekwayup_client" folder - but not subfolders and subfiles!)


There is still not clear situation who is ODM and who OEM of these DSOs, which didn't really matter for us.
We know the hardware is identical and we know we can use both firmwares, so who ever write a better firmware - we can use it.



Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 18, 2010, 05:37:44 pm
another one screenshot ...
My previous bw measure was done with 1ns rise time generator, which is normally not sufficient (due cable, terminator loss).

So here we are, i did build the 250ps generator (well, at least on my 500MHz scope it shows 550ps rise time)
and made some measurments on the Tekway/Hantek DSO. The result is 1.3ns which is equal to 270MHz -3db bw.

EDIT: on the snapshot is 1.250ns, so it is between 1.25ns and 1.30ns, but the worst value counts.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: saturation on November 18, 2010, 06:00:09 pm
NICE, tinman, what did you use generate 250ps?


another one screenshot ...
My previous bw measure was done with 1ns rise time generator, which is normally not sufficient (due cable, terminator loss).

So here we are, i did build the 250ps generator (well, at least on my 500MHz scope it shows 550ps rise time)
and made some measurments on the Tekway/Hantek DSO. The result is 1.3ns which is equal to 270MHz -3db bw.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: alm on November 18, 2010, 07:38:45 pm
So here we are, i did build the 250ps generator (well, at least on my 500MHz scope it shows 550ps rise time)
and made some measurments on the Tekway/Hantek DSO. The result is 1.3ns which is equal to 270MHz -3db bw.
Did you verify the amplitude with your 500MHz scope? Rise time is measured from 10% to 90% of the signal amplitude, so if the scope shows a lower amplitude due to the attenuation of the high-frequency component, the apparent rise time will be higher. A step is much easier to use than a pulse for this reason.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 18, 2010, 07:40:16 pm
NICE, tinman, what did you use generate 250ps?


the Linear Technology, App Note 47.

I didn't had LT1073 but 1073-5 so changed some Rs values in 90V power supply part, but the rest is the same.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: saturation on November 18, 2010, 08:20:07 pm
Wonderful, and thanks so much for appending the app note pdf too.

NICE, tinman, what did you use generate 250ps?


the Linear Technology, App Note 47.

I didn't had LT1073 but 1073-5 so changed some Rs values in 90V power supply part, but the rest is the same.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 18, 2010, 08:50:04 pm
Did you verify the amplitude with your 500MHz scope? Rise time is measured from 10% to 90% of the signal amplitude, so if the scope shows a lower amplitude due to the attenuation of the high-frequency component, the apparent rise time will be higher. A step is much easier to use than a pulse for this reason.

well actually this is like apple and pear, a scope with higher BW will show evtentually** higher amplitude
On the other side 10%/90% are from measured signal amplitude and not the real amplitude.

The only common BW limiter on both DSOs is 20MHz, with such setting both are displaying ~2.5ns rise time and 1Vp.

My result is exact what Tekway/Hantek did specified for 200MHz models, so it isn't something new, it is just a proove of this hack.


** The 250ps rise time are far beyond both DSOs bandwitdh, at least 4-6GHz DSO is necessary to measure such
high rise time/amplitude signal with accuracy lower than 5%.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: alm on November 18, 2010, 09:13:08 pm
well actually this is like apple and birnes, a scope with higher BW will show evt. higher amplitude. On the other side 10%/90% are
from measured signal amplitude and not the real amplitude.
Just to elaborate why I think amplitude matters:
Assume a really fast (say 250ps 10-90 rise time on a sampling scope with a much faster rise time than that) pulse, and a step (eg. 1kHz square wave, which is much slower than the edge rate) with the same rise time. The step will have a rise time of about 1.75ns on a 200MHz Gaussian scope.

Now replace the step by a pulse. The rise time won't be 1.75ns, since the total pulse with is narrower than that. The pulse will start to fall before the scope's vertical amplifier reached the top. Did the scope just become faster?

Using pulses for bandwidth measurement is hard, in my opinion, which is why Jim Williams made an improved version with charge line. It should be fine for relative tests, but I wouldn't rely on the actual numbers.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 18, 2010, 10:59:56 pm
It should be fine for relative tests, but I wouldn't rely on the actual numbers.

Well yes, i did posted before measurments done with 10MHz/1ns rise time square generator, it was still good enough (1.8ns)

The AN47 pulse generator can be easy build by everybody, the rise time will probably vary a bit (but still much faster than most low costs DSOs are)
so a good base for relative comparison of such DSOs.

Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: eecfans on November 19, 2010, 11:32:50 am
Really interesting ha. they are useful info for me, because I may have to find a new replacements, too. Tks.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 19, 2010, 03:11:11 pm
Finally i got official answer from Tekway and Hantek.
Both companies have same shareholders and since few months sharing development team (welcome to "cost reduction" world),
but they still independant, so both will continue to produce DSOs under own company name.


The SDK kit (for both Hantek and Tekway) is scheduled to be released end of Jauary 2011,
the firmware source code (which is under GPL and have to be published) will be not published,
this seems to be GPL licensing misunderstanding so i will try to explain again both companies what's about.

Hantek have currently no 60MHz devices in stock, just because they not started yet with the production,
the answer is "60MHz device will follow".

Tekway have some 60MHz in stock (over official distributors - see my first post, or directly),
but it seems that there are more people asking for 100/200MHz devices than for the 60MHz.

Personally i think both companies have issues due the components market situation to get components in time, so probably
they prefer to sell higher models to earn more, but that's fair enough.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: GeoffS on November 19, 2010, 03:19:36 pm

The SDK kit (for both Hantek and Tekway) is scheduled to be released end of Jauary 2011,
the firmware source code (which is under GPL and have to be published) will be not published,
this seems to be GPL licensing misunderstanding so i will try to explain again both companies what's about.

Send an email off to this group (http://gpl-violations.org/about.html). They'll do the chasing up about GPL compliance.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 19, 2010, 04:51:28 pm

The SDK kit (for both Hantek and Tekway) is scheduled to be released end of Jauary 2011,
the firmware source code (which is under GPL and have to be published) will be not published,
this seems to be GPL licensing misunderstanding so i will try to explain again both companies what's about.

Send an email off to this group (http://gpl-violations.org/about.html). They'll do the chasing up about GPL compliance.

for now i did analyzed first what under GPL and what not, made a list of all files/modules/libraries and send it to Tekway/Hantek
with a full description. Now it would be easier to understand for them.
Depends on answer i will of course contact gpl-violations.org and/or softwarefreedom.org.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: Gall on November 19, 2010, 08:42:00 pm
Do they link their proprietary executables statically and/or with GPL (not LGPL) libraries? If yes, they have to publish sources or at least linkable object files of these executables as well.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 19, 2010, 09:56:11 pm
Do they link their proprietary executables statically and/or with GPL (not LGPL) libraries? If yes, they have to publish sources or at least linkable object files of these executables as well.

All proprietary executables are dynamically linked, except customized gpg (which will be used for automatic firmware decryption during update), but as the secret key is already known should be not a bid deal to publish the source. Tekway/Hantek know about this hack
and about what we already know/looking for.

Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 19, 2010, 11:27:17 pm
HACK UPDATE
I did updated some stuff and changed all ref. postings to have all hacks/tools in single place

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Firmware update for Tekway users
This is inofficial version, it will update all Tekway DSO to firmware version 2.06.2
- French/German/Chinese/English menu language supported instead of only Chinese/English
- CSV export to USB (up to 40k samples only, but better than nothinig)
- a bit better export menu (much easier to recognize what your saving)
- more colors for menu/submenu/background (black/green/pink/yellow/blue instead of only blue)
- trigger works now stable up to 300MHz (of course after hacked to 200MHz bw)
- zoom up to 1000x
This firmware update is replacing only binaries, nothing will be hacked or changed.
How to use :
- download attached do_firmware_Tekway_2.06.2.exe and do_firmware_Tekway_2.06.2.r00
(it is packed with WinRAR just because of size limit here in forum)
- unrar or execute it and copy dst1kb_2.06.2_cli(101028.0).up to your USB stick and proceed with firmware update
- reboot, recalibrate your DSO

removed since never firmware available
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generic Tekway hack
Hack is now updated to work with any Tekway firmware versions, it will change your DSO model but it will not anylonger replace any binary files
How to use:
- download one of the attached version
   do_Tekway_DST1062B.zip - if you wish to change your DSO to DST1062B (60MHz bw)
   do_Tekway_DST1102B.zip - if you wish to change your DSO to DST1102B (100MHz bw)
   do_Tekway_DST1202B.zip - if you wish to change your DSO to DST1202B (200MHz bw)
- unzip and copy the dst1kb_9.99.9_cli(111111.0).up to your USB stick and proceed with firmware update
- reboot and recalibrate your DSO

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Generic Hantek hack
Hack is now updated to work with any Hantek firmware versions, it will change your DSO model but it will not anylonger replace any binary files
How to use:
- download one of the attached version
   do_Hantek_DSO5062B.zip - if you wish to change your DSO to DSO5062B (60MHz bw)
   do_Hantek_DSO5102B.zip - if you wish to change your DSO to DSO5102B (100MHz bw)
   do_Hantek_DSO5202B.zip - if you wish to change your DSO to DSO5202B (200MHz bw)
- unzip and copy the dst1kb_9.99.9_cli(111111.0).up to your USB stick and proceed with firmware update
- reboot and recalibrate your DSO

I don't have DSO5062B and DSO5202B boot screen logos, so your DSO will always show during boot DSO5102B.
If you have such logos please let me know. If you wish to change the DSO5102 logos (see attached hantek_logo.zip content)
to "proper" name, then do it and send them back to me (so i will update again this hack).
I would do it, but i prefer to spend my time on other things :)


I got the proper logos for DSO5102B and DSO5202B, for DSO5062B is did my own. Generic hacks in below updated now.


not working anylonger, use UART to hack

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Firmware Dump utility
as already posted here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg23807#msg23807 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg23807#msg23807)
this tool has been again updated


again updated to work with fw 2.6.x and higher?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg35683#msg35683 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg35683#msg35683)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Firmware Update Counter Reset
This tool will reset fw-update and DSO-usage counter to 0 on your Hantek/Tekway DSO.
How to use:
- download attached do_ResetUpdateCounter.zip
- unzip and copy the dst1kb_9.99.9_cli(111111.0).up to your USB stick and proceed with firmware update
- reboot and recalibrate your DSO

NOTE: This tool is deleting sys.inf from your DSO root file system. All currently known firmware versions are re-creating this file during reboot,
however be warrned that i'm not responsible for any modifications done by you.


not working, use UART to delete sys.inf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALL Hacks/tools has been tested on both Tekway and Hantek DSOs (DST1xxxB series and DSO5xxxB series) with all currently known
firmware versions, however i'm still not responsible for any resulting issues (warranty, bricked DSO, whatever).


If you brick your DSO with one of in above posted hacks/tools you will still be able to un-brick it via JTAG. "ARM JTAG cable for H-JTAG"
costs 10$, e.g. ebay item 300453556955
If you don't want to play with JTAG and wish to unbrick your DSO, unsolder the NAND memory (K9F1208xxx) and send it to
me (i'm located in Europe ...), i can definitely reprogram the NAND with working firmware (however you will have to know how
to unsolder/solder such IC). A empty NAND will not work, there is some factory calibration data stored, so it is always recommended to have a original firmware backup (created via JTAG/UART or with the "Firmware Dump utility" hack/tool)
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on November 20, 2010, 12:07:20 am
attached hack/tools zips ... (updated Nov 28th)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on November 20, 2010, 11:34:27 am
Just perusing tinheads post, again, awesome!  :D

He's changed my view of the Hantek/Tekway completely.  A worthy equivalent to the Rigol hack threads for higher bandwidth scopes.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on November 20, 2010, 03:52:28 pm
and again.. sorry if i miss something... where can get this hackable DSO model? still didnt show up in my ebay :( ...can the hack update... be updated in the 1st post for ease of referencing? (just a suggestion) as i said.. i may have missed something due to lack of supply. :-\
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: g***! on November 20, 2010, 06:00:18 pm
and again.. sorry if i miss something... where can get this hackable DSO model? still didnt show up in my ebay :( ...can the hack update... be updated in the 1st post for ease of referencing? (just a suggestion) as i said.. i may have missed something due to lack of supply. :-\

I bought mine from GoodLuckBuy.com (Hantek DSO5102B)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: dfnr2 on November 21, 2010, 02:48:54 am
Very interesting.  I'm looking for a scope to fill in while I repair my workhorse scope, a Lecroy 9834 with no video.  I had just been about to pull the trigger on the $415 Instek 1062A, or the $800 big brother 1102A.

This thread caught my eye.  Do you care to do a review on the Hantek scope?  In particular, can this scope be controlled via the USB port?  One thing that I like about the Instek is that it has a documented programming interface, and you can interface it to your own software (such as NI Labview, or Python/VISA).  Does the Tekway have a similar interface?

How does the triggering, display, etc. compare?  How is the brightness/crispness/viewing angle?

Also, anyone had experience ordering from Goodluckbuy.com to the US?  How long did it take?

Many thanks!

Dave
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: .o:0|O|0:o. on November 21, 2010, 03:05:16 am
Is the Tekway Chinese?

.o:0|O|0:o.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on November 21, 2010, 03:57:53 pm
Is the Tekway Chinese?

.o:0|O|0:o.

yes it is
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on November 21, 2010, 07:10:56 pm
This thread caught my eye.  Do you care to do a review on the Hantek scope?  In particular, can this scope be controlled via the USB port?  

One thing that I like about the Instek is that it has a documented programming interface, and you can interface
it to your own software (such as NI Labview, or Python/VISA).  Does the Tekway have a similar interface?

How does the triggering, display, etc. compare?  How is the brightness/crispness/viewing angle?


Oki, small Hantek DSO5202B/DSO5102B/DSO5062B - Tekway DST1062B/DST1102B/DST1202B review.

Display :

The DSO is using InnoLux 7" TFT (AT070TN83 V1) with LED backlight,
It is a good display wth high contrast/brightness and do have anti glare.
Viewing angle is 6 o'clock, no differences to 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. Only in 12 o'clock isn't that good (see display datasheet for more information)
The DSO is using native resolution (800x480), no double/quad pixeling tricks like with UNI-T CEL series.

A very good thing is the DPO-like display persitency, from 0.2s to infinite (Instek Accumulate is like infinite persistency on Hantek/Tekway, so no compare)

There is additionaly TFT refresh rate selectable between 30, 40, 50 aud automatic (which is i think 20 or less) frames/sec.
You can "see and feel" the refresh speed and the waveform changes.


Menu:

Menu on the right side can be switched on/off (in single window mode), it is always on in double window mode.
Menu-speed is fast, a little-bit slower in long memory mode but still ok (this is new in current firmware version, it was amazing slow in fw 2.05.x)


Trigger:

All standard triggers available :
Edge (Falling/Rising)
Pulse (Pos/Neg, "<" ">" "=" "!=", 20ns to 10s pulse width)
Video (All/Odd/Even/LineNumber/AllLines - PAL/SECAM/NTSC)
Slope ("<" ">" "=" "!=", Time and V/sec scale)
Over Time (Pos/Neg, 20ns to 10s)
Alternate (Edge, Pulse, Over Time, Video trigegr per chan available)

Of course all triggers have additialy LF reject, HF reject, Noise reject, AC or DC coupling options
and Ext, Ext/5, AC50

Autoset have additionaly multicycle / singlecycle rising/falling edge waveformtriggers.


Memory :

Sample memory can be switched between 4k, 40k, 512k or 1M (in real time sampling mode) up to 200µs time base (2ms record time)
It will change automatically to 512k in 200µs and higer time base if you in run mode.
In eq. sampling mode you can't change sample memory, however it seems to be using the real time sampling mode values.

Currently there is funny firmware bug (fw 2.06.2), with some specific combination of run&stop/single/time base change/memory length
the DSO is showing wrong data. This means don't use single shot with long memory (everything over 40k) in higher time base than 200µs.
Run/Stop is displaying proper data, single shot too as long you don't change time base. I did send a error log/description to Hantek/Tekway today.

Zoom in double window mode up to 1000x, with holdoff 100ns to 10s. You can set multiple markers, switch or play between markers.
Not sure if the Zoom is more like Rigol or more like Instek (see instek review), wating for some screenshots from Instek users
to compare it - however it would be hard to compare due dual window function available on Hantek/Tekway devices.

Math/FFT:

only CH1+CH2, CH1-CH2, CH2-CH1, CH1xCH2 available.

FFT only Hanning, Flatop and Rectangular with zoom x1 to x10.

In FFT mode no long time memory available anylonger in fw 2.06.2, it was before but i would say good change,
because the DSO wasn't really responsible in FFT with 1m memory mode.

Math/FFT in dual or single window mode available


Measure menu:

11 values can be measured (Freq,Period, Mean, Pk-Pk, Cycl. RMS, Min, Max, Rise time, Fall Time, Pos Width, Neg Width)
however only 8 displayed at same time.


Cursor:

In dual or single window mode available, Time or Voltage but not both at same time.


Other:

Timescale 2ns to 40s, i wish 1ns would be available (instek 1ns to 50s)
Avarage sample 4/8/16/32/64/128 (instek have 2 and 256 too)
XY mode with dual window available (XY and XY atr same time)
Ref. A or B can be only saved to internal memory, setup localy or USB, waveforms to USB only.
CSV export currently only 40k samples, more only via PC software.
The DSO is fanless, however you can add fan if you like, there is everythign prepared for.


Programming:

Well, all functions can be controlled via USB, but there is no SDK published yet (scheduled for end of Jan 2011).




Also, anyone had experience ordering from Goodluckbuy.com to the US?  How long did it take?

ask user g***!, i got my directly from Tekway but from what i understood it was a week (?)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: g***! on November 21, 2010, 07:58:58 pm

Also, anyone had experience ordering from Goodluckbuy.com to the US?  How long did it take?

Many thanks!

Dave

Hi there Dave!

My buying experience was as follows:

From initial order to dispatch was 5 days (probably waiting on stock)
Transit time was 6 days, I'm not in US, but from looking on the website US delivery is typically about 5 days....hope this helps!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on November 21, 2010, 09:56:21 pm
And here some pictures of Hantek DSO5102B ( thx g***! )

Interessting that some components has been changed (input and trigger circuit) between my
old Tekway (which is very early version) and current Hantek.

All JTAG and I/O extender port pin headers are not soldered, only UART port still there.

All ADCs got now small heatsink.

EDIT : as reported some ppl got heating/death chan issues in the past because of missing heatsink's on ADCs.
I'm not a friend of fanless devices, so i never got any issue because my very early device have small fan.

If you bought a Hantek/Tekway DSO without heatsink on ADCs, send it back! That's probably old stock
and the distributor have to send you a new one.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: kramer on November 21, 2010, 10:34:42 pm

Also, anyone had experience ordering from Goodluckbuy.com to the US?  How long did it take?

Many thanks!

Dave
Hi everyone!
Same question - different destination ;)

Anyone had experience ordering from Goodluckbuy.com to Germany?  How long did it take?

Many thanks!

kramer
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on November 21, 2010, 11:35:38 pm
Same question - different destination ;)
Anyone had experience ordering from Goodluckbuy.com to Germany?  How long did it take?

Ich ...

... not DSO but other things. I did selected DHL (was about 20$ extra fee) and got my items within 8 days (due Customs),
normally it should be up to 5 day only ...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: app-note on November 22, 2010, 10:32:17 am
Excellent step-by-step guide ! I could convince my buddy to sacrifice his Tekway DST1102B for a tear-down and patch session over the weekend.
That's the kind of learning experience I am missing in class.
Tinhead, can you shed some light on how you managed to extract the gpg key ? Might be of interest to other projects as well.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: dfnr2 on November 22, 2010, 10:34:47 am
Great!  Have you by any chance tried out the USB port on the back?  With the drivers installed, does it look like a serial port? Does it implement an SCPI command subset?  

Also, a question about the responsiveness.  I am borrowing a Tek TDS 2024B, and I'm kind of disapointed in the sluggish response to adjustments and button pushes, and the weak passive LCD screen.


Regards,

Dave
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on November 22, 2010, 01:55:48 pm
Tinhead, can you shed some light on how you managed to extract the gpg key ? Might be of interest to other projects as well.

If I told you it I'd have to shoot you ...

Before i did any debugging i did checked every binary for "tekway" string (to find out which of them are proprietary).
The first match in gpg was the hash key, so there was no need to disassemble/debug the gpg binary anylonger
.. look at the screenshot.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on November 22, 2010, 03:30:02 pm
Great!  Have you by any chance tried out the USB port on the back?  With the drivers installed, does it look like a serial port? Does it implement an SCPI command subset?  

hard to answer, the PC driver seems to be proprietary partially based on cypress ezusb bulk (but there is no ezusb chip,
(so they just copy/pasted too much ...), service description SvcDesc="Hantek usbtmc".

"usbtmc" looks good for me, but i wasn't able to do anything with it.

I think we have to wait until the SDK (and probably new driver) has been released.


Also, a question about the responsiveness. 

it is very fast with fw 2.06.2, with lower fw versions was depends on which menu and sample/memory settings between "real time" and "real death"
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on November 23, 2010, 01:12:46 pm
Currently there is funny firmware bug (fw 2.06.2), with some specific combination of run&stop/single/time base change/memory length
the DSO is showing wrong data. This means don't use single shot with long memory (everything over 40k) in higher time base than 200µs.
Run/Stop is displaying proper data, single shot too as long you don't change time base. I did send a error log/description to Hantek/Tekway today.

got nice answer, Hantek/Tekway will release asap updated firmware. Btw, they already aware about this hack ^^
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: dfnr2 on November 23, 2010, 04:13:58 pm
Well, I needed a scope this week, so although I had been leaning toward the instek before finding this thread, I decided to go with the Hantek unit, in part due to the higher bandwidth, and bigger screen at a cheaper price.  I'll post my thoughts in the review section once I've had time to play with it.

I ordered mine from Emtesco/Morton Controls in Colorado.   They appear to be the US official distributor for these Hantek scopes, and also stock some other interesting cheap scopes: https://www.mortoncontrols.com/index.php?main_page=index (https://www.mortoncontrols.com/index.php?main_page=index).  BTW, it sounds as if they will be offering some Black Friday deals on these units.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on November 23, 2010, 04:37:34 pm
Pray tell, what is your final price like, after S&H, and taxes?

Well, I needed a scope this week, so although I had been leaning toward the instek before finding this thread, I decided to go with the Hantek unit, in part due to the higher bandwidth, and bigger screen at a cheaper price.  I'll post my thoughts in the review section once I've had time to play with it.

I ordered mine from Emtesco/Morton Controls in Colorado.   They appear to be the US official distributor for these Hantek scopes, and also stock some other interesting cheap scopes: https://www.mortoncontrols.com/index.php?main_page=index (https://www.mortoncontrols.com/index.php?main_page=index).  BTW, it sounds as if they will be offering some Black Friday deals on these units.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: dfnr2 on November 23, 2010, 06:02:24 pm
Pray tell, what is your final price like, after S&H, and taxes?

I needed the scope this week (couldn't wait for the Black Friday sale) so I ordered the 100MHz DSO5102B.  It was $630, plus $37 for 2-day shipping, so total $667. No tax since I'm in Texas. Of course, ground shipping would have been much cheaper.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Adama on November 25, 2010, 08:40:22 am
@tinhead,

(Servus) ;-)

As you are the mastermind re. this hack and the scopes involved, what type of scope would you choose/recommend for someone like me, who is just about to buy a new scope (with limited budget but bigger amibitions ;-) ) ?
Hantek, Tekway ???

My understanding aber reading the entire thread is that the tekway offers the better screen and resolution, but the innards seem to be all the same?

Any comment and suggestions are highly appreciated!

Kind regards,

Adama
(from probably one of the most southern parts of Germany) ;D

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on November 25, 2010, 12:51:40 pm

what type of scope would you choose/recommend for someone like me, who is just about to buy a new scope ith limited budget


i don't know you needs, so i can't recommend anything.

As you from Germany please check first this link

http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/Oszilloskop (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/articles/Oszilloskop)

(for those who don't speak german, that's article describing scope types, the diffs - for all those who don't know what they have to look for)


My understanding aber reading the entire thread is that the tekway offers the better screen and resolution, but the innards seem to be all the same?


The "innards" that's just a piece of electronic parts, with same parts you can build a lightsaber, scope or coffeemaker.
Talking about DSOs innards, even it they "same" without software they still not doing anything special.

Tekway/Hantek are 100% identical, just because both companys belongs to same shareholder,
so no matter which of them you take, it would be still the same.

Tekway/Hantek input and trigger circuit is almost same as Rigol is using, so no matter which of them you take,
you still have same input/trigger quality (at least from hardware point of view)

The major difference between Rigol and HanTekway is display, some features in firmware and the UI responsible µC.
I've choose HanTekway because of the diff's, other ppl might don't need bigger display or more DPO-like functionality
but need USB-GPIB adapter, so they will take Rigol.

About the competitors (UNI-T, ATTEN) - well, almost everythign said already, they cheaper - not only in price - but
that's still not a no go for some ppl, everything depends on needs and budget.

Again, as you from Germany, read this :

http://www.martin-lauff.de/utd-2052cel.html (http://www.martin-lauff.de/utd-2052cel.html)


Loser of the day
comment on hackaday :
The was a lot of reports on EE forums from people feeling greedy and getting Tekway instead
of more trusted brand, a lot of Tekway scopes lose a channel or two after couple weeks of usage


... this guy probably worry about his cheap-dso store ... it could be easier for him to ask
Hantek/Tekway for some devices to continue business instead of talking crap ...
Afaik there is no single evidence (at least google don't know any, not even in china) about tekway and broken/losed channels.


i got badly busted :P Indeed some people having early devices got heating issues.
I told Tekway months ago, this can be potential issue, but they send me typical "cost-saver-answer" :

“The components we used in this DSO is industrial level, so these conponents can be worked well under the temperature you tested. For example the AD9288-100, work well under 75°. Of course we have reserved the interface for fan supply, but not used in this series. We have considerd about the situation when the DSO running without the fan. It could be worked well. But we will add the fan in the future if our clients need”

It is good to see that Hantek/Tekway learned and finally installed small heatsinks on ADCs - a combination of overclocked ADC without heatsink and fanless power supply producing additionally lot of heat was not a good idea.

My very early DSO got small fan long time ago, i'm not a friend of component stress because of production-cost saving efforts,
so i never got any issues. I think i will install some small heatsink on ADCs too, like on the new Hantek/Tekway revisions.

So be warned : If you bought a Hantek/Tekway DSO without heatsink on ADCs, send it back! That's probably old stock
and the distributor have to send you a new one.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: dfnr2 on November 26, 2010, 08:23:18 am
Emtesco (https://www.mortoncontrols.com/ (https://www.mortoncontrols.com/)) is having a Black Friday sale on the Hantek scopes (and also on the Rigols).  Since I had ordered the 100 MHz DSO5102B just before the sale, they were kind enough to send me the 200 MHz version DSO5202B, since the sale price is about what I paid.

I have looked over the scope.  No real surprises having seen the pics posted here.  The screen is nice, and the scope is responsive and easy to use, and for a brand new 200 MHz scope, the price can't be beat.  I think there is certainly room for improvement in the firmware.  I wonder how responsive Tekway/Hantek will be to customer suggestions.  My alternative to this was getting the 100 MHz Instek.  The Instek does have some advantages for serious users, but the Hantek could easily have the same advantages with some straightforward firmware enhancements, if they choose to do so.

Overall, I'm pleased with this scope so far.  I will post some thoughts on the unit after I have played with it for a few days.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: g***! on November 26, 2010, 03:36:59 pm
Hi there Dave! 
Good for you, landing the 200Mhz version.
What software version is it running? I think when the little flaws are ironed out of the software, it will turn into quite a nice scope!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on November 27, 2010, 03:44:26 am
removed ....
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on November 28, 2010, 05:02:44 pm
... and finally input circuit picture from real 200Mhz device. As expected there are some small
differences between AD8370 and LMH6552 (280R vs. 301R, 330R vs 390R, unknown C + "varicap" vs. unknown C + "varicap").

From what i got reported, the bw is higher than on hacked 100MHz DSOs
(210Mhz vs 260MHz -3db, 240MHz vs. 320MHz -6db - don't compare these valuse to bw pulse measurment, they always higher)
which is of course a bonus for those who buy 200Mhz DSO instead of hacking 60Mhz or 100Mhz model.

I assume the 60MHz model have some differences too, unfortunately i never had a chance to test it by myself.
People who hacked 60MHz DSO reported 200MHz bw, the question is only how accurate they measured
the bw (i think it is between 170-180MHz for hacked 60MHz DSOs).

I ordered 60MHz today, not sure when it arrives (because no stock) but i will report back the results.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: LostInSpace on December 06, 2010, 03:38:02 pm
dfnr2,

If I'm reading this series right, you paid about $650 and they sold you the 200 Mhz labeled scope through their close to black friday sale.  Right? 

Many thanks!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on December 06, 2010, 04:57:30 pm
An interesting review of Tekway, as a clone of Tektronix:


http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://tm.eefocus.com/stupid/blog/09-08/174338_65029.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3D3458a%2Breview%2Beefocus%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DPGy%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Div&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhhQDHHxxHFcqjNYZo4kvO9LBkAV3Q (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://tm.eefocus.com/stupid/blog/09-08/174338_65029.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3D3458a%2Breview%2Beefocus%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DPGy%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Div&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhhQDHHxxHFcqjNYZo4kvO9LBkAV3Q)


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 09, 2010, 03:10:38 am
For NA folk good news, the 60MHz Hantek seems to be orderable

https://www.mortoncontrols.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_67&products_id=450 (https://www.mortoncontrols.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_67&products_id=450)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on December 09, 2010, 06:13:03 am
To: tinhead.
What can you say about Oscilloscopes OWON PDS8102T/PDS8202T?
Can I change the first model in the second (100 MHz to 200 MHz)? 
I choose the oscilloscope, and looking at your messages. 
Thank you! 
Igor, Russia.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 09, 2010, 12:51:39 pm
To: tinhead.
What can you say about Oscilloscopes OWON PDS8102T/PDS8202T?
Can I change the first model in the second (100 MHz to 200 MHz)?  
I choose the oscilloscope, and looking at your messages.  
Thank you!  
Igor, Russia.

Igor,

no idea yet. What you can do is, take it apart, make some detailed pictures, create a separate review
thread here in forum (you don't have to write much).
We can see then what inside, and maybe there is a chance.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on December 09, 2010, 06:39:33 pm
Tinhead, I don't have such a device. I just choose.
But most likely choose Hantek DSO5102M, and take your recommendations for upgrading.
And for sure I will contact you.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Gall on December 10, 2010, 11:44:22 am
Just received my 100 MHz Hantek. I'm thinking about replacing dso.exe with something that would be more extensible, i.e. with wavelet support in addition to FFT etc. Are there such projects already?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 11, 2010, 08:52:14 pm
Just received my 100 MHz Hantek. I'm thinking about replacing dso.exe with something that would be more extensible, i.e. with wavelet support in addition to FFT etc. Are there such projects already?

Afaik not that i know. To replace the dso.exe we need first to reverse few thigs, like FPGA control, front panel control, to
understand the data coming from FPGA, to udnerstand how the trigger, the input stage and self-calibration are working and how to
control them ... a lot of things for single person.

I'm currently busy with Ethernet addon board and evt. wireless usb stick for this DSO.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Gall on December 12, 2010, 08:22:12 am
Yesterday I tried to analyze dso.exe. For now, I suspect that dso.exe contains a small piece of GPLed code (not everything is linked dynamically). It would be great.

What exactly I'd like to add first is another algorithm of sample averaging for low-frequency modes. This would reduce ADC noise and increase effective bit-resolution if the 20 MHz filter is on. (I expect to see a perfect straight line in low-freq, high-voltage modes).

Upd: I made another firmware extract utility. It does exactly the same but does not modify any files on oscilloscope at all. Everyting is done inside the update script on tmpfs. See attached file.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 12, 2010, 01:13:26 pm
Upd: I made another firmware extract utility. It does exactly the same but does not modify any files on oscilloscope at all. Everyting is done inside the update script on tmpfs. See attached file.

The trick with tmpfs is good idea.

@All

Gall's utility is dumping the firmware during firmware update directly (just be more patient), so no need to play with usb stick and usb cable after reboot.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: am2pgs on December 12, 2010, 07:14:47 pm
Tinhead et all,

this has been a very facinating thread for me. I have been looking at affordable scopes for a while , and this thread finally helped make my mind. So I went ahead and ordered the Hantek DSO5102B from Goodluckbuy last week.  I am expecting it any day now.

To start with, I'll have a go at backing up the firmware (in NAND flash) once I get the unit. One question, does the USB firmware dump utility backup the vivi bootloader as well? I am not sure if Nanddump utility could access that partition at all.

Also any idea where in NAND flash the factory settings are stored or what these settings are for?
 
Thanks again,
great job.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 12, 2010, 07:55:56 pm
To start with, I'll have a go at backing up the firmware (in NAND flash) once I get the unit.
One question, does the USB firmware dump utility backup the vivi bootloader as well?
I am not sure if Nanddump utility could access that partition at all.

Again, i can only recommend to backup the firmware. The best way is to do it with JTAG (to have everything not only the 3 "partitions".
The USB firmware dump utility is saving boot, kernel and root "sectors". Vivi is stored in boot dump. Such backup can
be restored only to own NAND and as long NAND was not completly erased.

In case NAND is broken or erased there are two additional things necessary to restore it
- 135168 byte "blank" sector (must be filled with FFh)
- 16896 byte "mizi_tag" sector - this is just a marker (not sure if this is NAND unique, but it worked for me on two DSOs and dev board)

To get a full NAND backup with OOB blocks you have to merge all these files:

copy /B boot.bin + blank.bin + kernel.bin + root.bin + mizi_tag.bin fw_backup.bin

and then the fw_backup.bin is the full NAND backup.

However, in most cases it is enough to have backup of boot, kernel and root FS.

Also any idea where in NAND flash the factory settings are stored or what these settings are for?

afaik there is factory calibration data directly in root of root FS:

tdc_edge125M
tdc_overtime125M
tdc_pulse125M

there are additionally some *.log files directly in root of root FS (not sure what they for, but it seems dso.exe is using them) :

i2c.log
mult_adc.log
tdc.log

Everything else seems to be not unique, so in case something mising/deleted/broken you can still ask someone here to get a copy.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: am2pgs on December 14, 2010, 12:56:05 am
@ Tinhead

Thanks for the extra .bin files. I received my Hantek today, and did a firmware dump.

It is reassuring that the total of the .bin file sizes (including the ones you posted) works out to be the same as the Nand Flash memory size.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 14, 2010, 01:10:09 am
@ Tinhead

Thanks for the extra .bin files. I received my Hantek today, and did a firmware dump.

It is reassuring that the total of the .bin file sizes (including the ones you posted) works out to be the same as the Nand Flash memory size.


you welcome.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Crippled on December 14, 2010, 01:46:54 pm
Is the 60MHz also hackable to 100 or 200MHz?
At which China internet warehouse is it for sale? I know the 100MHz is for sale at goodluckbuy.

thanks  :)

edit
found the 100mhz at taobao.com:


http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://item.taobao.com/item.htm%3Fid%3D4727827746&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhgIAaJdhC3FJaM0olzo1VLJF3Kbdw (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://item.taobao.com/item.htm%3Fid%3D4727827746&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhgIAaJdhC3FJaM0olzo1VLJF3Kbdw)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Gall on December 14, 2010, 03:15:15 pm
Is there a schematic of Hantek input stage, maybe reverse engineered?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 14, 2010, 04:29:49 pm
Is there a schematic of Hantek input stage, maybe reverse engineered?

afaik no, only the part between AD8370 and LMH6552 is known. It is like Rigol input stage,
the varicap D1 is BBY65-02V, C1=C2=160pF

Pin8, Pin9 in the picture are connected to AD8370 and over resistors (they a bit different per model, but it didn't change that much)
to LMH6552 input. The voltages on the picutre are fom Rigol, Tekway/Hantek have different levels
(as we have 20,60,100 and 200MHz bw selectable).

Everything else has been afaik not yet reversed (even not for Rigol)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: am2pgs on December 14, 2010, 09:20:45 pm
Has anybody got the TTscope to work under windows 7 with the DSO5102B?

The application installs but I seem to miss the USB driver.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Gall on December 15, 2010, 12:53:25 pm
tinhead, thank you for the schematics!

I was investigating Hantek's noise. Now I'm pretty sure that it is NOT normal ADC sampling noise, it is just too big. Looks like mine has only 6 significant bits while 2 bits measure noise even on strong input signals (5 V/div on 1:1 or 50 V/div on 1:10 probe)! I expected 7.5 significant bits of course.

The nature of the noise is unknown. It is uncorrelated between 1st and 2nd input channels so it cannot be EMI (I've seen interference from FM radio broadcasts on 2 mV range but not here). I suspect it is kind of Johnson-Nyquist noise or something. I hope it can be reduced somehow to less than 1 significant bit.

Of course, some noise is always expected, all DSOs have noise, but low-end ones have more. It is strange that a fast DSO measures strong low-frequency signals worse than just some resistors and comparator hooked to PC parallel port.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: am2pgs on December 16, 2010, 09:33:41 pm
Just converted my DSO5102 to DSO5202 and I can say it really works. What a difference!

The following traces were captured using the same scope, same probe and exactly the same point of measurement, one with the original DSO5102 Firmware, and the other after it was modified to DSO5202.

Not very scientific, but it is a relative test indicating that the frequency response has doubled.

Thanks!

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 24, 2010, 04:29:14 am
Is there a schematic of Hantek input stage, maybe reverse engineered?

i did reversed the complete input stage from ch1 / ch2, and some internal logic control, see attached pdf.
Few controls sognals are still missing, but it think it is good enough to understand the circuit.

The input stage (up to AD8370 input pin) is flat up to 400MHz, so there is room for more improvements (e.g. 350MHz bw ...)

As the input stage is almost equal to Rigol this schematic might be interessting also for Rigol hacks.

EDIT: Updating schematics right now ... be patient

In principle S3C2440 is controlling over i/o the CPLD, the CPLD is controling FPGA/SRAM.
FPGA is capturing data and controling some input stage signals and front panel
(which was a small suprise, i was thinking s3c2440 is doing this).
It can be that there are some other connections between FPGA and S3C2440,
however multilayer board is not easy to reverse with components soldered on it.


The interessting thing is that no matter what kind of C/R/Varicap combination i used, the bw was always the same.
Somehow the CPLD is controling the bw of AD8370, maybe we need to check with LA what's going there (VAG control words)
The DAC LTC2601 is providing always 2.7V to Varicap, no matter what settings (hmm, haven't tested during self calibration yet)
or which model (60,100 or 200MHz), this didn't really make sense.

Normaly this part of the circuit should change the bw (like Rigol is doing) via reverse voltage applied to varicap,
no idea why Hantek/Tekway is not using it - however this is only checked on my very early Tekway,
maybe somone else can test it too (Anode of the Varicap).


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Gall on December 25, 2010, 11:31:24 am
Great work! What a Christmas gift! Thank you!!

It's a bad surprise that FPGA seems to go to CPLD and not to ARM directly. Looking at the board, I suspected that CPLD does just very simple thing - connecting SRAM to both FPGA and ARM and mapping SRAM into ARM's address space. Looks like I was wrong. Also looks like that everything is memory mapped.

It is unclear why CPLD is used at all. FPGA should be able to do the same by itself. This may indicate that input stage including ADC and FPGA part is ingeneered by someone else and bought by both Rigol and Hantek, thus CPLD is used as glue logic between ready-made FPGA design and the CPU.

The varicap seems to be used for correction and not for frequency filtering. Its connection does not look like a filter, there are no resistors or inductors between AD8370 and the varicap. Of course, AD8370 has 95 Ohm output impedance but it is not intended to be used in such a way.

I think about analyzing connections between CPLD, FPGA and ARM by using their JTAGs in boundary scan mode.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 25, 2010, 01:49:36 pm
i have to correct myself, both FPGA and CPLD are memory mapped to ARM, and both CPLD and FPGA are controlling some
signals. I know that CPLD is controlling input stage HC595 and generating for example 1kHz, the FPGA front panel and some other
signals. The question is now who is master, probably FPGA and not CPLD ... unfortunately without special equipment we can't see it
and Han/Tek/way will never publish the schematics.

You right, it could be easier to use boundary scan instead of unsoldering components or x-ray PCB. I hope Han/Tek/way will really
publish the firmware sources, it will help defnitely to understand the design.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Frank Q. on December 26, 2010, 12:02:56 pm
Testing a new DST1062 I see, keys and rotary encoders are working not reliable. Often a pressed key is not recognized and has to be pushed once again. Rotary encoders (e.g. VO and Horz. Position) are working if tuned slowly. Faster rotation will result to slower motion. Is this typical to tekway scopes?
Will the 'newer' software described here reduce/kill these errors?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 26, 2010, 12:06:30 pm
[...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Frank Q. on December 26, 2010, 12:09:24 pm
It's 2.06.2 (101028.0)
I think this is the last one.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 26, 2010, 12:12:08 pm
It's 2.06.2 (101028.0)
I think this is the last one.

did you already updated or it was pre-loaded?

I saw similar issues if DSO was not re-selfcalibrated after fw update.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Frank Q. on December 26, 2010, 12:17:52 pm
I didn't made any update, so this is the pre-loaded (original) version.
Before I make any changes I will find out if this scope could make me happy at last :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 26, 2010, 12:37:16 pm
I didn't made any update, so this is the pre-loaded (original) version.
Before I make any changes I will find out if this scope could make me happy at last :)

nice, because there is no official Tekway 2.06.2 fw available, so maybe the distributor did updated for you.
If you don't mind, made a fw backup with this tool :

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg26877#msg26877 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg26877#msg26877)

Just download, unzip and copy to usb stick the *.up file, plug into the DSO USB port
and run as "firmware update" - it will not farm or change anything on your DSO, it will only dump the
firmware during update process (so just wait 5 mins or so).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Frank Q. on December 26, 2010, 01:17:47 pm
I did it. Inside root.bin there are several places showing 2.06.2.
How should I continue?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 26, 2010, 05:59:06 pm
Frank,

check PM for instructions.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: PsI-On on December 27, 2010, 09:22:10 am
Can anyone tell me how to change the language, all i can see is Mandarin Chinese  :-[

I updated the firmware and now have english  ;D Chinese version seems to only have Mandarin!

Thanks

-P

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on December 28, 2010, 12:23:26 pm
Santa was here :)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on December 28, 2010, 01:55:53 pm
Awesome!  He made it safely through Chinese airspace ...

Santa was here :)


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: sliverstorm on January 04, 2011, 09:16:39 am
What do you think the odds are we can get LA software running on these things? Do you know how the input from the probes is passed to dso.exe? (fancy memory access, "Everything is a File" /dev instance, ...?)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 04, 2011, 01:36:52 pm

What do you think the odds are we can get LA software running on these things?


for a logic analyzer we need two things:
- the data
- the UI

The UI app need to be of course developed first. It can be controlled over two ways:
-via touch screen (so everybody have to buy a touch screen and connect to ARM)
-via front panel keys

As the keys are controlled over FPGA we need to know how it works (is on my to do list).
Maybe we can use current FPGA design to capture fron panel events and to forward to ARM, but maybe
it need to be a new design.

The more important question is where the LA data will be coming from. There are some possibilities:
- over ch1/ch2 (make no really sense to build LA with two ports)
- over the FPGA pins currently connected to ADCs (there is no header, so soldering necessary ... i think bad idea)
- over the FPGA with new design and some pins (still bad idea)
(side note: the FPGA is interconnected with CPLD which we can't change and to SRAM. Sure the SRAM could be nice
to store LA data, but there are too many "If" to do it without source code and detailed schematics ....)

- over any other available port.
This seems to be the best option, so in principle a small external/internal addon board need to capture the data and to send
it to ARM. There are some open source designs (sump, minila, seedstudio and so on), they can be changed to
do whatever we need.

The S3C2440 ARM is fast enough for DSO UI, so it would be fast enough for LA. The captured data can also provided
over:

- front panel USB port
- ARM UART1
- ARM I/O port (which have 16bit data, 4 address, nOE, nWE, nWAIT, GPIO select 3, nBE1, ext int9, reset signals and 3.3V/GND)

From a usability point of view front panel USB could be the easiest one (plug external LA, push for example F6 for 5sec.
and dso.exe will be killed and own LA ui started...). Over UART1 could be a bit slow and we have to make modification to the
enclosure (probably on the back side). The I/O port is nice, but same as for UART1 enclosure modifications necessary.
I would personaly plug into i/o port a Ethernet addon board (like originaly supposed to be used for).

For Tekway users (like me) modifications to the enclosure are necessary, for Hantek users it is a bit easier. On the front panel
there is a sticker (right over USB port). If you remove it you will see two holes:
- for USB
- for printer/RS232 - DSUB25 (just push the word "waveform" on the sicker and you will feel it)
So in principle Hantek users will  have to remove this sticker, mount a DSUB25 socket and connect external LA over this port
(which can be then connected to UART1 or I/O port).


The external LA could have own memory and sample logic, but it could be a simple (but slower) thing - just a piece of buffers controlled over
nWE/nOE/nGCS3/eInt9 and capturing 16bit data directly to ARM.

So as you can see we have may options and still many open questions. I will continue the hardware reversing, maybe it would be never
used for logic analyzer, but i think it could be helpful to have schematics in case the DSO dies some day.
I don't really count on warranty, probably every distributor know that ppl are playing with firmware, Hantek/Tekway know it anyway.



Do you know how the input from the probes is passed to dso.exe? (fancy memory access, "Everything is a File" /dev instance, ...?)


no, not exactly. There are two device drivers dso-iobank.ko and dso-fpga.ko, they seems to be used to access CPLD and FPGA,
but how exactly the data flow works no idea yet. But feel free take care over this task.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 04, 2011, 01:50:40 pm
Santa was here :)
all those santas... do you intend to sell it here? interesting.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 04, 2011, 01:59:56 pm
Santa was here :)
all those santas... do you intend to sell it here? interesting.


no i don't. It was collective order for some ppl who asked for.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: xxbsd on January 06, 2011, 12:41:19 am

- ARM I/O port (which have 16bit data, 4 address, nOE, nWE, nWAIT, GPIO select 3, nBE1, ext int9, reset signals and 3.3V/GND)


Hello tinman,

have you been able to find out the exact io port assignment?
I've already tried to find out myself and I found similar signals. But there are still ambiguities with some pins.
I'm afraid it's nearly impossible to clarify them without unsoldering the cpu.

Thanks a lot
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 06, 2011, 01:05:15 am

- ARM I/O port (which have 16bit data, 4 address, nOE, nWE, nWAIT, GPIO select 3, nBE1, ext int9, reset signals and 3.3V/GND)


Hello tinman,

have you been able to find out the exact io port assignment?
I've already tried to find out myself and I found similar signals. But there are still ambiguities with some pins.
I'm afraid it's nearly impossible to clarify them without unsoldering the cpu.

Thanks a lot



sure, see attached picture.

The DATA0->DATA15 are the ARM D12 -> B15 pins (check the S3C2440 manual).
The RESET signal, there is reset circuit generating it, so it is routed to i/o expansion port and over 2G04 to JTAG/ARM.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 06, 2011, 01:12:49 am

I'm afraid it's nearly impossible to clarify them without unsoldering the cpu.


btw, i did it, so now we know all used/unused pins.
Unfortunately i have still to work from time to time, so reversing is going slow...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 06, 2011, 03:18:28 am
This is nice, can't wait to buy one! :) I hope SDK will be released ASAP.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on January 06, 2011, 11:43:29 am
You unsoldered that CPU?! Amazing  :o.

Tinhead, you are the Tekway/Hantek hack god for sure.


I'm afraid it's nearly impossible to clarify them without unsoldering the cpu.


btw, i did it, so now we know all used/unused pins.
Unfortunately i have still to work from time to time, so reversing is going slow...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 07, 2011, 12:45:49 am
Hm, there was no strong "OK!" answer for the Tekway DST1062B mod. I have an offer to buy DST1062B or DST1102B. Is it really the same inside through the whole 1062->1102->1202 series is the same hardware? So no point to buy 100MHz scope to mod it to 200MHz? I would save then about 150USD and buy 60MHz one.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 07, 2011, 01:12:32 am
probably you haven't read my postings carefully. All these models are 99.999% the same inside.
There are some more or less cosmetic differences (for higher freq. response):
- 4 resistor arrays in input stage
- 8 resistors in input stage
but in principle you can live with that (or solder new 0.1% resistors and ran self-calibration)

Everything else remains the same.

Afaik Tekways are still hackable via USB (firmware update), the new stock Hantek's not anylonger*
For Hantek you will have to connect via UART0, kill the dso.exe (by ctrl+c + enter)
and modify manually model name (see my first post).


*new stock models firmware is checking current DSO model name with the model name in the firmware (on USB stick).
Of course there is still a way to create a firmware which will lie about model name and hack the DSO, but
honestly i'm too lazy (too busy) to create it. As we can still hack over JTAG or/and UART0 i don't see a need
to spend time on this.

I think everybody should be able to buy TTL UART-> USB adapter (ebay for "cp2102 usb ttl"),
so no issue at all. There are two CP2102 TTL USB adapter models (on ebay), one with GND/RXD/TXD/5V/RST
and one with 5V/GND/RXD/TXD/RST (talking about adapter header pinout).
Just be sure you checked the connections before you connect the adapter to DSO, if you do it wrong - like
i did (5V on DSO GND and GND on DSO RXD) you will kill the ARM µC RXD port, which isn't funny if
you have no IR Rework equipment and spare ARM µC at lab/home.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 07, 2011, 07:24:36 am
Thanks for clearing my mind! I think I am taking that DST1062B :)

Regarding logic analyzer question:
Even two channel logic analyzer would be cool, because it could successfully decode 1-wire, RS232, RS485, I2C protocols. Or even if it would be possible to connect SCK signal to ext trigger channel and two channels to MOSI/MISO, it would be a perfect SPI decoder. I can't wait for the SDK!

A bit offtopic, but regarding the ARM processor:
Where do You buy them? There is a project with S3C2440 uC and farnell/digikey/etc has no such processors on stock.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 07, 2011, 09:38:34 am
A bit offtopic, but regarding the ARM processor:
Where do You buy them? There is a project with S3C2440 uC and farnell/digikey/etc has no such processors on stock.

in my local drug store :)

go to

http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/quote.php?action=search&pn=S3C2440AL-40 (http://www.digchip.com/datasheets/quote.php?action=search&pn=S3C2440AL-40)

select S3C2440AL-40 and create RFQ
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 08, 2011, 09:33:46 am
Hello Guys,
We are Hantek 'a agent in France and we can deliver many DSO5102B as our stock is large enough.
Please visit our website: http://elec3i.com (http://elec3i.com)
Hope to deal with you soon. ;)

Best regards,
Pascal
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 08, 2011, 10:07:58 am
@pgup62:
1) delete your duplicate (1st) post.
2) sell gossen metrahit or energy dmm.
3) do you talk malay? multilingual ehh?
4) how much dhl/ems shipping cost to malaysia?
Cheers.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 08, 2011, 01:08:34 pm
Hello Guys,
We are Hantek 'a agent in France and we can deliver many DSO5102B as our stock is large enough.
Please visit our website: http://elec3i.com (http://elec3i.com)
Hope to deal with you soon. ;)

Best regards,
Pascal

yeah, i know your website. Btw, what is TTC price ? Is it with TVA or without ?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 08, 2011, 09:24:14 pm
Selamat Salam Shafri  :o
In fact, I have some friends in Singapour, malay language, they tought me some language tips.
Fortunately, we most of time talk english 8)
TTC means tax included. we use to deliver inside Europe. For Asia, perhaps we can dropship from Hantek. I will inquire this possibility from them.  Dou ke yi !

Regards,
Pascal
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: flyer1059 on January 08, 2011, 10:17:48 pm
Thank you Tinhead and others for a very informative post...

I got my Hantek DSO5102B last week. It was shipped with 2.06.2 software. I haven't hacked it or upgraded it in any way. I have noticed two software bugs in its operation. Is anyone else seeing them too?

1. Using cursors with 2 channels with different volts/div. Triggering is off channel 2. Voltage cursors are on channel 1 - but the scope displays cursor readings using volts/div for channel 1. I am definitely selecting cursors to be sourced by channel 1.

2. Observe a signal on channel 1 and setup triggering using a suitable level and timebase. While observing the waveform press "SINGLE SEQ". The waveform is captured. Change the timebase to another setting. Press "SINGLE SEQ" again. The waveform is captured but at the OLD timebase setting, even though the scope is displaying the NEW timebase on the screen. The workaround is to change the timebase only while the scope is in the RUN mode i.e. the "RUN STOP" button is green.

Apologies if this has been answered already. Can the Hantek DSO5102B standard software be upgraded with Tekway DSO1102B files. Also can either Hantek or Tekway TTscope software be used with my scope?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 08, 2011, 11:09:09 pm
Hello Guys,
We are Hantek 'a agent in France and we can deliver many DSO5102B as our stock is large enough.
Please visit our website: http://elec3i.com (http://elec3i.com)
Hope to deal with you soon. ;)

Best regards,
Pascal

Are there possible discounts for students? I've managed to get a discount @ German Pinsonne electronics to the same price(shipping included) as Yours for DSO5062B. If it is possible to have a discount @ Your company, I will cancel my order there and buy Yours :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 09, 2011, 01:18:48 am
Are there possible discounts for students? I've managed to get a discount @ German Pinsonne electronics to the same price(shipping included) as Yours for DSO5062B. If it is possible to have a discount @ Your company, I will cancel my order there and buy Yours :)

lol, "sparen?"

Be careful, the "Elec3i" price includes TVA (19.5%) which is like MwSt in Germany (19%),
if you have no EU VAT number you will pay evt. twice the VAT (TVA and MwSt).

- no TVA/VAT

The "Elec3i" price is ok...
no, is same as everywhere else.

DSO5102 costs 589 EUR, plus for Germany 19% VAT so we have 700,91EUR which is equal to what e.g. pinsonne
sells (695EUR).

If Elec3i price would be with french VAT it would be of course very good offer.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 09, 2011, 11:15:06 am
Please, let me give you a little explanation: :-\
For everybody into Europe, our price si the same TTC or VAT (This means VAT=0.00 EUR !), because for now, we are not charged by VAT taxes because of the taxes policies in France according to our turnover. At the same time, no added taxes for European countries (Germany, UK, Brlgium, Spain, Italy, etc.)
For countries outside Europe, these countries should add their own custom taxe according to every country custom policy, usually around 20% of "product price + Shipping price + insurance" plus anti-dumping taxes and other fees (depending of the importer fees).
We already paid our importation taxe, as this should be for every imported product inside Europe.
Just I wanted to point out that perhaps we can inquire Hantek (we are somewhat in narrow collaboration with Hantek  because some of our staff comes from the same city where their factory is settled) to possibly dropship to people outside Europe, then this wouldn't charge the custom tax from exportation (From France to elsewhere outside Europe: this one will be requested by the importation country if we deliver outside Europe), just the tax from China to the importation country, and for lucky guys perhaps 0, but don't believe this can be possible too much (many people in France got sad when they order from USA and a while later they were requested to pay 20% custom tax...).
I hope my explanation is not too tricky. For special discount requested price  or any special information, everybody can directly communicate with us : pascal@elec3i.com   ;D
Cheers
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 09, 2011, 03:23:55 pm
Pascal,

someone (enduser) in EU have always to pay VAT, so if your price have no french VAT the enduser will have to pay it
in own country. Your price (no-VAT) is typical for B2B, for me as a company owner just perfect (therefore my org. question is TTC=TVA)
 - but the enduser will still to have to pay VAT, everything else is cheating and illegal.

Import TAX is a different story, you as importer have to pay it anyway.

P.S. - normally you can't sell a B2B items to enduser without proper VAT, that's the EU business rules.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 09, 2011, 07:11:42 pm
cuo le mei you ? dui bu qi.... :o
Hao ba ! :-\

VAT is included in the price (Even VAT=0) and european customers won't be charged by VAT in their country. This policy has been confirmed by EUROPA service and french custom.
We are then very competitive on DSO52102B , we accept discount prices here for this forum. Let us say we offer shipping delivery inside Europe and we offer extra 30,00 EUR more in the final price ! I let you do all the operations. I think we can argue and we don try to cheat people anyway. ;D
Cheers
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on January 09, 2011, 07:51:35 pm
cuo le mei you ? dui bu qi.... :o
Hao ba ! :-\
you can translate some of chinese ee sites for us.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 09, 2011, 10:30:08 pm
I think we can argue and we don try to cheat people anyway. ;D

... on the other side, if a enduser is not asking explicit for invoice with VAT, who cares :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 10, 2011, 02:06:35 am
Well, if VAT is not mentioned in the invoice or it is marked as added already, then who cares in Europe? :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 10, 2011, 02:48:11 am
Well, if VAT is not mentioned in the invoice or it is marked as added already, then who cares in Europe? :)

sure, nobody .. except other distributors (just because of "unlauteren Wettbewerb" - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Commercial_Practices_Directive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Commercial_Practices_Directive)) and revenue office....

To be very honest, i don't care. If you manage to get it cheaper by cheating the revenue office, then lucky you.

DSO5102B price on elec3i.com is 589EUR, -30EUR for eevblog users is a good total price.
I would say cancel your pins**** order and buy the 100MHz from elec3i.com.

I assume you will anyway hack the device, so it make sense to buy 100MHz model to get better probes (they good up to ~150MHz).

Or buy the DSO5062B and extra 200MHz probes ...


@Pascal

do you have guys any informations when the "C" series (DSO5102C and DSO5062C) will be available?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 10, 2011, 10:14:48 am
yes, I will give you this information as soon as possible.
DSO5062C is already on the market (2 x 60MHz, 500MS/s), we will add the product online.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 10, 2011, 04:50:46 pm
Well, if VAT is not mentioned in the invoice or it is marked as added already, then who cares in Europe? :)
DSO5102B price on elec3i.com is 589EUR, -30EUR for eevblog users is a good total price.
I would say cancel your pins**** order and buy the 100MHz from elec3i.com.
...
Or buy the DSO5062B and extra 200MHz probes ...

Well, seems like it won't be any cheaper from elec3i for DSO5062B :-\ If they would offer at least 499EUR - 30EUR(forum user) + 10EUR shipping = 479EUR I am on the order. Also afaik they support PayPal. Anyway, 200MHz probes will be cheaper than 200MHz/60MHz scope price difference :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: am2pgs on January 10, 2011, 08:43:27 pm
This is just my experience and it could be different for other people:

I bought my DSO5102B from the chinese website Goodluckbuy for ~492 EUR and they shipped via DHL express for free. It arrived here in the UK within 7 days and it was in prefectly new condition (the box had seen better days though).

The customs didn't charge me any taxes in the UK, possibly because the value was written as only $40 on the invoice.

I was not bothered about any warranty issues since I wanted to modify the scope anyway.




Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 10, 2011, 09:45:54 pm
Well,
I can notice some chinese challengers have illegal practice and I would like people take care of this.
Up to people to accept this, even the idea to get no warranty and so on is an exciting idea.
As a serious company, we deliver legal invoice (our VAT=0, according to french law, is written on it !) with device serial number and we have maintenance parts (main boards, LCD screens, power unit boards, etc). We are ingaged for a 2 years warranty.
We are more than a B2B service, we can develop sofware and translate user's manuals as well. I hope these chinese companies can give you a better service than ours, just I seriously doubt about it. After, sometimes you cannot be sure to receive your parcel, and you can claim what you like, I feel sure you will never be granted for your device. We have contract with HANTEK, and our stock is already in France.
I let people think about risks carefully...




Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: flyer1059 on January 10, 2011, 10:09:17 pm
Hi tinhead

Can you please have a look at my reply #133 and comment.

Regards, flyer1059
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 10, 2011, 10:44:16 pm
1. Using cursors with 2 channels with different volts/div. Triggering is off channel 2. Voltage cursors are on channel 1 - but the scope displays cursor readings using volts/div for channel 1. I am definitely selecting cursors to be sourced by channel 1.

i think you mean "but the scope is displaying cursor reading using volt/div from ch2 (and not ch1)

No, on my 2 DSOs no such errors. If i switch in coursor source menu between channels the proper value will be displayed.


2. Observe a signal on channel 1 and setup triggering using a suitable level and timebase. While observing the waveform press "SINGLE SEQ". The waveform is captured. Change the timebase to another setting. Press "SINGLE SEQ" again. The waveform is captured but at the OLD timebase setting, even though the scope is displaying the NEW timebase on the screen. The workaround is to change the timebase only while the scope is in the RUN mode i.e. the "RUN STOP" button is green.

yes, this is known bug (new since 2.6.x), i did notified Hantek/Tekway about it already.
As a work around you have to select always first "run", change time base, and then use single seq.
Especially if long memory is specified this bug really sucks, but the work around works (so let's hipe next fw will fix it).

Apologies if this has been answered already. Can the Hantek DSO5102B standard software be upgraded with Tekway DSO1102B files. Also can either Hantek or Tekway TTscope software be used with my scope?

you mean the PC software ? The Hantek software works with Tekway and Hantek DSOs, the Tekway only with Tekway :)
This is because of additional DSO names added into some dll files and ini files (look into ttscop\config dir)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 10, 2011, 11:30:17 pm
This is just my experience and it could be different for other people:

I bought my DSO5102B from the chinese website Goodluckbuy for ~492 EUR and they shipped via DHL express for free. It arrived here in the UK within 7 days and it was in prefectly new condition (the box had seen better days though).

Seems like there are no information about warranty, so maybe goodluckbuy doesn't offer any.

I let people think about risks carefully...

Do You offer service for devices that wasn't bought at Your store?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: sliverstorm on January 11, 2011, 05:33:57 am
Hmm, I have run into a stumbling block. I have tried to update my 'scope (a Hantek DS5102B) with the files provided in do_Hantek_DSO5202B.zip, and I get:

Software upgrade failed, error 0xf7
Illegal upgrade files detected!

System Status tells me:

model: DSO5102B
soft version: 2.06.2 (101108.0)
hard version: 0x555583e8
serial number: xxxxxxxxxxxx
boot count: 4
upgrade log: 2


Haven't got a JTAG programmer handy, so I'm hoping the USB upgrade method will work.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 11, 2011, 10:48:44 am
Hmm, I have run into a stumbling block. I have tried to update my 'scope (a Hantek DS5102B) with the files provided in do_Hantek_DSO5202B.zip, and I get:

Software upgrade failed, error 0xf7
Illegal upgrade files detected!

Haven't got a JTAG programmer handy, so I'm hoping the USB upgrade method will work.


yes, i said it already here that Hantek did changed fw on new stock models :

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg29262#msg29262 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg29262#msg29262)

JTAG is usefull for fw backup, only to hack the device use UART.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 11, 2011, 01:52:20 pm
Dear Scrts,
Of course not, no service for people who buy outside our shop, because warranty is relative to a device serial number. Another thing too, we cannot garantee devices which were illegaly upgraded (hacked) and I don't know any which will accept this... ;)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 11, 2011, 03:10:25 pm
@Scrts

you have 3 years Hantek warranty for DSO and 1 year for probes (however you have to pay shippment
costs which is why distibutor price is higher than china mainland price)
 - of course until you modify anything on hardware or software side (like 200MHz hack).

Exceptions:
- official beta firmware
- certified addons (like ethernet board which can be installed by enduser)
- modification done by Hantek Maintenace Center

From "Goodluckbuy" you will get no addidtional warranty, only the manufacturer warranty mentioned in above
which is probably enough for all ppl whio will anyway modify the DSO.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 12, 2011, 01:08:10 am
Dear Scrts,
Of course not, no service for people who buy outside our shop, because warranty is relative to a device serial number. Another thing too, we cannot garantee devices which were illegaly upgraded (hacked) and I don't know any which will accept this... ;)

Well, I fully understand Your company :) Just thought You could do some services for money. Lets say got hacked scope, ask 400USD for motherboard exchange and make business :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 12, 2011, 10:02:44 am
@scrts,
Yes, we can probably do this, I will confirm later. ;D
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 12, 2011, 07:34:36 pm
So I've made my order @ GoodLuckBuy and paid through PayPal and selected free shipping. About an hour later I get an email from the shop and they say, that it is impossible to send the item using free shipping. Neither registered airmail, nor EMS (which would cost additional 30USD), so they asked me to pay additional 40USD for DHL. Its quite annoying, since I live in Lithuania, which is a part of European Union and a guy here had DHL shipping for free to the UK, which is even further. So I've asked how can I pay for DHL, since the invoice is paid and they have to generate another one I suppose?

Finally:
be sure that You won't get a PITA dealing with China suppliers...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 12, 2011, 09:24:56 pm
@scrts,
Big big sorry to you.  ??? Today I asked informations from Europe Direct service center and I am waiting informations from french Custom too. I asked some european clients wether they were charged or not with VAT. I think I will get all answers tomorrow. But after many inquiries, it seems that our european clients were not charged with VAT because we are not under VAT policy (french taxe policy for micro-enterprises business). In France our clients do not pay french VAT because of our business status ("micro-entreprise"). It should be the same with all european customers because this process should be equal to everybody in Europe, not only with the french people.
When this will be confirmed, this will mean that our prices is better than Tinhead said, because no VAT and discount here (30 EUR).
@Tinhead,
Please verify VAT policies in Europe because it is not so obvious as you seem to affirm... There are many rules and it gives the feeling that every case is different from another
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on January 13, 2011, 01:45:08 pm
@ tinhead:
I want to buy Tekway DST1102B.
The seller from China said that the device has the English interface, but the system only Chinese.
I think the built-in Help system, etc.  
Can I install full English version of the software of your recommendations?  
Can I count on your help?
In advance thank you.

P.S. What other information about the device, check with the seller for the correct decision about purchasing?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: PsI-On on January 13, 2011, 04:55:52 pm
Hi Igor,

I got a DST1062B in China last month. As you can see from the photo, some of the front panel is in Chinese (not a problem, after a week you'll know what button does what!).
The menu was in Chinese when I got it, took me a while to figure out how to update the firmware.
When I did update with tinheads, the default language was English  ;)

Oh by the way, I paid 2000 Yuan for it, that's about 235 euro  ;D

-PsI
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on January 13, 2011, 07:29:04 pm
@PsI-On:
You can say a seller bought the appliance?
Your price is much lower than I would like to buy DST1102B.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 13, 2011, 09:43:14 pm
Oh by the way, I paid 2000 Yuan for it, that's about 235 euro  ;D

And said this so late...  :-[ Mine is shipping from GoodLuckBuy, had to pay for DHL :-\ Well at least I got soldering tip cleaner for free and tracking of the package ::)

Tell us the supplier!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on January 14, 2011, 09:09:09 am
@All:
Here is the link to the site of the seller DTS1062B and costs 2000 Yuan.
http://youa.baidu.com/item/8ffb93b8ca327c15601fac17 (http://youa.baidu.com/item/8ffb93b8ca327c15601fac17)
I hope someone can buy appliance …
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 14, 2011, 12:40:36 pm
this is exactly what i said before, if you buy in/from china you will get one very cheap, but with some
chinese buttons and crippled firmware (afaik the chinese firmware have less features).

Firmware is not a big deal since the hack and 2.0.6.2 update has been released,
chinese buttons can be easily fixed if you have a printer.

GoodLuckBuy is delivering Hantek's only, and Hantek has changed the enclosure
and buttons design a bit - so they always english - and just due the internal agreements they a bit expensive than Tekway
models (so even if you find one directly in china you will have to pay more than for Tekway chinese model)

So if you need warranty buy from :
mortoncontrols.com
elec3i.com
pinsonne-elektronik.de

if you need only english interface and DOA warranty:
GoodLuckBuy
or whoever on ebay (but be careful and check they really provide DOA warranty)

and if you don't care that much about warranty or front panel/buttons:
baidu.com
taobao.com

It can happens that if you buy in/from china a Tekway model, you will get one of very early models.
They don't have heatsinks on ADCs and FPGA - not a big deal if you install small 12V fan
(and replace the 7812 on power supply board with 7808 or even 7805) or small heatsinks on ADCs at least.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on January 14, 2011, 05:10:30 pm
Unfortunately, many Chinese websites do not have the English version.
It is very difficult to make an order on such site. Often they do not accept international payments because work with the Yuan only.
I'm trying to find a partner in China, so that through him the order on such site, but so far failed.
Only one vendor has agreed to sell me DST1102B with the Chinese system, and costs much more than the Chinese online stores.
I live in Russia, so I don't need the manufacturer's warranty. In Russia there is no service centers Tekway, Hantek, Protek. And send the defective device in repairs in China would be extremely expensive, and it's not profitable.
So I want to buy an inexpensive oscilloscope and will try to modify it. Although experience on hacking the devices I have not.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Bored@Work on January 14, 2011, 05:59:44 pm
Unfortunately, many Chinese websites do not have the English version.
It is very difficult to make an order on such site. Often they do not accept international payments because work with the Yuan only.

The currency as such isn't the problem, Chinese vendor's limited access to international payment systems (credit card, Paypal *spit*) is.

You can hire agencies http://www.google.de/search?q=buy+from+taobao (http://www.google.de/search?q=buy+from+taobao) to deal with Chinese speaking vendors and the Chinese payment system. But they of course take a fee, and I would be very careful when selecting one, so not to end up with a conman. In the end it might not be worth using an agent.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on January 15, 2011, 06:48:49 am
Chinese vendor's limited access to international payment systems (credit card, Paypal *spit*) is.
This is what I meant.

Quote
But they of course take a fee, and I would be very careful when selecting one, so not to end up with a conman. In the end it might not be worth using an agent.
This problem actually exists.
Therefore it is better to work with a proven seller.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 20, 2011, 01:36:33 pm
Dear All,
Hao jiu bu jian le !!! ;)
I finally can access the blog again, oops.
We have relationship with chinese vendors and evrything should be done with care:
Some cheap devices sometimes mean : chinese local market. I cannot believe you will get some help or warranty from this market: once you paid, you get your device and bye bye. Many times the motherboard is made of cheap components, no thermo-retractable shrinkable tube to protect mains or other wire connexxions, glue here and there, and so on. Sometimes too, the motherboards are from the second market, a repaired board for instance. But the worse is a copy of a genuine board...  >:(
As previously mentioned, Elec3i offer good prices for the Eevblog users. Now we have discount prices for at leat 3 weeks as we call this : "Les Soldes d'hiver".
It is a traditional french discounting period where you can access cheapest products after winter hollidays.
For now : DSO52102B is 549,00 EUR with VAT=0, discount=30,00 EUR, final price = 519,00 EUR. We charge shipping (packing free) with the price you can find to the french international post office, Coliposte : http://www.colissimo.fr/affranchissementenligne/displayShipment.do (http://www.colissimo.fr/affranchissementenligne/displayShipment.do)
We don't take extra fees for delivery because we have special agreements with our another company : Geyre Electronique SA.
We received the french custom answer for VAT and answers from some european clients : no european clients is charged with VAT after their purchse from Elec3i, because as a micro-enterprise we have special VAT policy. All we sell is VAT=0 in France, and it is equal this policy can be applied to european clients too. So as a conclusion, the prices you can find in our website: http://elec3i.com (http://elec3i.com) are gross prices.  ;D
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 21, 2011, 12:42:40 am
Since mine DSO5102B has a new firmware, I have to use UART or JTAG. Is it really UART there is 5V levels? I have my own board with FT232 and 3.3V levels. Also maybe it is possible to get step-by-step manual how to flash firmware using JTAG? I have Segger J-Link :)

I see that the scope top surface above LCD gets warm, since there is no cooler. Is it normal?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 21, 2011, 02:29:53 am
Since mine DSO5102B has a new firmware, I have to use UART or JTAG. Is it really UART there is 5V levels? I have my own board with FT232 and 3.3V levels.

yeah, i said "TTL UART USB converter" just because of easy search on ebay.
The i/o port is LVCMOS of course (3.3V). I know that the ports are 5V tolerant, but i would still
recommend to use "proper" 3.3V levels.

Also maybe it is possible to get step-by-step manual how to flash firmware using JTAG? I have Segger J-Link :)

well, i use H-JTAG USB (for which i wrote OOB NAND drivers) so no idea how to read/write NAND properly (with OOB blocks) over J-Link.
Search for mini2440, s3c2440 + j-link, there are tons of manuals/threads available.

I see that the scope top surface above LCD gets warm, since there is no cooler. Is it normal?

yes, it is. The temperature measured in my DSO (measured on a hot summerday after 2hrs warm-up time):
SNT controller (TOP246YN) - 65°
KA378R33 - 70°
KA 78R05 - 58°
ADCs (without heatsink) - 60°
FPGA (without heatsink) - 60°
BNC plugs - 45°

so as you can see they hot but still within specs. You can install a cooler, there is everything prepared on power supply PCB (7805 + some caps).
It is enough to drive a 12V cooler with 8V or even 5V to make the enclosure temperature much lower (with 5V almost no cooler noise)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Zinahe on January 21, 2011, 08:26:56 pm
tinhead and all,

Thank you for the all the good work.

Do you think this UDT2102CEL http://www.andahammer.com/udt2102cel/ (http://www.andahammer.com/udt2102cel/) can be hacked the same way like it is done on the Tekway ? I know the UT2102CE has been mentioned at the begining of the discussion, but I believe this particular model is different. I could be wrong, but the damn thing looks very  similar to the Tekway version.

(http://www.andahammer.com/assets/Uploads/scopes/_resampled/ResizedImage600363-UT2102FU.jpg)

Regards,

Zinahe A.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 21, 2011, 09:55:15 pm
@Zinahe

if you ever heard about "chinese piece of crap", then it was one of such famous things like the UNI-T CEL.

This is one of these management decision devices, not a new design, just a new display, cheap interpolation (actually not interpolation, 4 pixels will be displayed as one) on a cheap 480x234 display. So what is the resolution ? Exact 240 x 120 ...

So no, don't compare it and no there is nothing "similar" (just think about 7' BMW and VW Golf ..  both are cars - you can drive both but you should not compare). For sure some ppl will buy UNI-T, but to be very honest Rigol is cheaper (and with some luck you hack it)
is having 320x240 resolution and light years better than the UNI-T.

About a hcak possibility : UNI-T is like Rigol FPGA + DSP based - the most critical thing is to hack the DSP firmware. Just check the Rigol thread and you will see it can be possible but only if the manufacturer was too lazy ... If you have a chance to get both 100 and i don't know 60MHz? you can try to compare firmwares .. but that's a lot of work, time and it costs some money.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Tohuwabohu on January 22, 2011, 09:04:49 am

2. Observe a signal on channel 1 and setup triggering using a suitable level and timebase. While observing the waveform press "SINGLE SEQ". The waveform is captured. Change the timebase to another setting. Press "SINGLE SEQ" again. The waveform is captured but at the OLD timebase setting, even though the scope is displaying the NEW timebase on the screen. The workaround is to change the timebase only while the scope is in the RUN mode i.e. the "RUN STOP" button is green.

yes, this is known bug (new since 2.6.x), i did notified Hantek/Tekway about it already.
As a work around you have to select always first "run", change time base, and then use single seq.
Especially if long memory is specified this bug really sucks, but the work around works (so let's hipe next fw will fix it).

This bug seems to be fixed in the 60 Mhz Tekway I received from Pinsonne yesterday.
System Status:
[model] dst1062b
[softversion] 2.06.3(110111.0)
[hardversion] 0x555583e8
[serial number] T 1G/100M ......

I think some of the FFT window options are new.
I can select between Hanning, Flatop, Rectangular, Bartlett and Blackman.

Math menu shows two additional options: CH1/CH2 and CH2/CH1.

Several new options in the Measure Menu:
Delay1-2Rise, Delay1-2Fall, +duty, -duty, Vbase, Vtop, Vamp, Overshot, Preshot, Period Mean, Period RMS
The Help entries for these options are incomplete. Trying to scoll past Delay1-2Fall blocks the scope and the only way to get it into normal operation is the power switch.

English seems to be the only available language in this firmware.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 23, 2011, 02:04:15 am
The i/o port is LVCMOS of course (3.3V). I know that the ports are 5V tolerant, but i would still
recommend to use "proper" 3.3V levels.

Cool, will try that.

so as you can see they hot but still within specs. You can install a cooler, there is everything prepared on power supply PCB (7805 + some caps).
It is enough to drive a 12V cooler with 8V or even 5V to make the enclosure temperature much lower (with 5V almost no cooler noise)

Maybe You remember the diameter of the cooler or the length between mounting holes?
Thanks for helping!

BTW, no news about SDK? I've managed to dump all the firmware, so I am safe to start :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 23, 2011, 02:13:22 am
so as you can see they hot but still within specs. You can install a cooler, there is everything prepared on power supply PCB (7805 + some caps).
It is enough to drive a 12V cooler with 8V or even 5V to make the enclosure temperature much lower (with 5V almost no cooler noise)

Maybe You remember the diameter of the cooler or the length between mounting holes?
Thanks for helping!

[/quote]

standard 50mm cooler.


BTW, no news about SDK? I've managed to dump all the firmware, so I am safe to start :)

no, no news about SDK.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mala_elektronic on January 24, 2011, 07:56:28 am
Hi,
on this side I have written down my experience with the Tekway DST1102B. Maybe someone find it useful.
Here is the Side in German (http://www.martin-lauff.de/tekway-dst1102b.html (http://www.martin-lauff.de/tekway-dst1102b.html))
and here in English (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Ftekway-dst1102b.html (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Ftekway-dst1102b.html)) by Google translator.

I have the Firmware version 2.06.1 (101008.0). I wonder if there is an update for my DSO. In the Internet I haven’t found any.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 24, 2011, 10:26:21 am
Hi,
on this side I have written down my experience with the Tekway DST1102B. Maybe someone find it useful.
Here is the Side in German (http://www.martin-lauff.de/tekway-dst1102b.html (http://www.martin-lauff.de/tekway-dst1102b.html))
and here in English (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Ftekway-dst1102b.html (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Ftekway-dst1102b.html)) by Google translator.

mr uni-t killer did Tekway review, nice.

I have the Firmware version 2.06.1 (101008.0). I wonder if there is an update for my DSO. In the Internet I haven’t found any.

yes, there is for Tekway 2.6.2 created by me so you could use it but probably it would be better to wait for official 2.6.3
As already posted by someone here, Tekway/Hantek is delivering DSOs with 2.6.3 right now. However there is no update available
on manufacturers website (but you can ask Tekway via email for new fw).
The reason is very simple - due the 200MHz hack they have to post (for now) separate versions per model.

I have it here, i could repackage it for your device and send you via email - so you can update your review :)
There are many changes:
- FFT new features
- PASS/FAIL with many options (3rd page in Utility menu)
- Additional RECORDER (3rd page in Utility menu)
- Additionaly Filters "Bandpass, High, Low- pass" (3rd page in Utility menu)
... still not checked all options as i have it since an hour



Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 24, 2011, 04:59:04 pm
So if the updates are pretty frequent, what about hacked devices updates? Once hacked to the better BW scope, the official firmware will detect the hack or not? I wonder if the firmware update tool check the current version of the software or it checks the hardware. There is possibility, that one day, the hacked scope could be updated (or actually downgraded) only using JTAG.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 24, 2011, 05:39:02 pm
So if the updates are pretty frequent, what about hacked devices updates? Once hacked to the better BW scope, the official firmware will detect the hack or not? I wonder if the firmware update tool check the current version of the software or it checks the hardware. There is possibility, that one day, the hacked scope could be updated (or actually downgraded) only using JTAG.

as for now, all firmware updates are updating to newer version regardless of hacked/not hacked, so if you did hacked to 200MHz model
it will remain 200MHz after fw update.

In the future of course there is a small chance that Hantek will change the firmware to check for example part of SN
- all Hantek models have SN's like T 1G/xxM yyyyyy where xx is model speed and yyyyyy serial number). For Tekway it will be a bit difficult,
all DSOs sold before Nov 2010 have different Model/SN codeing - but of course you can catch them too with some effort.
... but we can then still logon to shell and reprogramm EEPROM so what.


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: campodea on January 24, 2011, 09:25:53 pm
I bought my Hantek DSO5102B from elec3i. They were really fast in processing my order and packed the scope very well!

Some things I noticed on the first day of playing with my new toy:

On my unit the measure and cursor buttons have to be pressed about twice as hard as all the other ones.
The ch2 position knob protrudes about 2mm more than the ch1 knob, it was glued (or is stuck) to far out on its shaft.
The TTScope software shows the not very informative message "5" upon clicking the connect button in Vista (in VMWare Fusion, will try on native windows).
The noise is prominent in xy mode, as Mala_elektronic also pointed out in his review.

Apart from that it made a really quite good first impression and I think I would buy it again!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 24, 2011, 10:04:25 pm
The ch2 position knob protrudes about 2mm more than the ch1 knob, it was glued (or is stuck) to far out on its shaft.

Thats strange, mine is OK.

Btw, That TTScope software is slow as hell... Pointless except of using for steady signal screenshots... Like on every scope :) I wonder if the scope has LAN expand module, what software does it support?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 24, 2011, 11:47:54 pm
On my unit the measure and cursor buttons have to be pressed about twice as hard as all the other ones.

disassemble the unit, maybe there is a piece of whatever inbetween.

The ch2 position knob protrudes about 2mm more than the ch1 knob, it was glued (or is stuck) to far out on its shaft.

they normally not glued, you can remove them easily.


The TTScope software shows the not very informative message "5" upon clicking the connect button in Vista (in VMWare Fusion, will try on native windows).

first the driver need to work, then of course the communication with DSO need to work.
The driver works in vmware, however sometimes timing seems to have issues (unexpected disconnect from DSO).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 24, 2011, 11:58:39 pm
Btw, That TTScope software is slow as hell... Pointless except of using for steady signal screenshots... Like on every scope :) I wonder if the scope has LAN expand module, what software does it support?

right, it is slow. I'm not sure if LAN module would made it faster, as for now not sure if the app itself is not sending enough updates to PC or
the PC software is just not able to update screen faster.

If you click on something within the software, the change is immediate on DSO side (but delayed on PC side), so communication PC-> DSO is slow because of PC side - but this still didn't means that DSO-> PC is fast enough.

Originaly Tekway planed to produce LAN Addon board, no idea if this will be ever produced.
For now i'm working on such board, but of course this will be only piece of hardware. USB -> Ethernet redirector driver need to be written too
to allow communication/remote control over LAN (or maybe just "SCPI" <-> DSO translator)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: sliverstorm on January 25, 2011, 05:14:08 am

The TTScope software shows the not very informative message "5" upon clicking the connect button in Vista (in VMWare Fusion, will try on native windows).


This can be fixed by adding a measurement to the workspace before hitting the connect button.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: campodea on January 25, 2011, 08:14:00 am
On my unit the measure and cursor buttons have to be pressed about twice as hard as all the other ones.

disassemble the unit, maybe there is a piece of whatever inbetween.

I will have a look sometime, but right now I'm ok with pressing them a little harder...


The ch2 position knob protrudes about 2mm more than the ch1 knob, it was glued (or is stuck) to far out on its shaft.

they normally not glued, you can remove them easily.


True they are not glued. Removed the knob today and scraped away some plastic inside it -> now it goes all the way in.

Regarding TTScope I got this e-mail:

Quote
I discoverd your TTscope hang with the DSO.
I read it in the Eevblog. I wanted to post the answer but i cannot access the
blog most of the time because of DNS propagation again, I suppose.
So here is the issue: Hantek used to deliver bad TTscope and I found that the
TTscope from DSO5202B CDRom works well with DSO5102B. I reported the issue to
Hantek who will correct it with new shipments.
You will receive a link from NextSend server to download new TTscope version.
Follow the instructions and read our bugs report.

Thank you.
Kind regards,
Pascal Geyre
Elec3i
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 26, 2011, 04:58:25 pm
Hacked mine. Added cooler inside, which is already annoying :'(, so thinking about on/off button. Firstly connected through UART, changed all the model names as described (dst1102b->dst1202b), restarted and it showed me DSO5102B logo, so I have ran firmware update with DSO5202B firmware which was complete successfully. Restart showed logo with DSO5202B ;D
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: baldrick9 on January 27, 2011, 05:20:04 am
Woohoo - just received my Hantek DSO5102B from goodluckbuy.com (via eBay). Dunno why anyone would pay more than double to buy from the Australian distributor. Maybe warranty? support? something...  but I don't think it's worth more than double the price.

Having said that... The scope's a little bit grubby around some buttons, but not worn - I thought it might be *used*, but upon closer examination I now think not. Perhaps the dealer was just testing/configuring it. Firmware shows as 2.06.2.  Hmmm should I hack it?

Mine has already locked up once - while doing a simple measurement. Maybe it was user error. I'll see if it happens again.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 27, 2011, 02:39:28 pm
Dear baldrick9,
IT is very simple :
Chinese from HongKong or Shenzhen used to deliver with prices that is large enough for them. Another thing is that VAT is not charged but your custom should inquire you in a while. I don't know why people don't understand this. When we sell from Europe to Europe, VAT is charged either by the retailer or the customer, it depends of some VAT policies. For ELec3i, our policy is the VAT is charged for us and not charged by the customer. In the case of a purchase from China, individuals will be charged by their country customs plus other fees, this can be 20 percents of the the purchase price. So you can calculate easily:
if you bought from Goodluckbuy (I hope you are a lucky guy ;D). let us say 480 eur, add 20% then you get 576 eur ! Elec3i price is 549 - 30 = 519 eur!!!
After what about Goodluckbuy service ? (warranty, repair department, online service ?) Did you get a commercial invoice ? In case of repairing do you plan to send the device back to China ? Wow, never forget anything and compare the comparable.... ;)
Cheers
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 27, 2011, 07:39:10 pm
I have chosen to void the warranty... Whatever :) I could reupload the previous firmware and send it back to hantek if something happens, but seems like all of the parts inside (FPGA/uC/ADC/etc) are orderable and still in production, so it is possible to change them myself.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 27, 2011, 07:59:36 pm
I have chosen to void the warranty... Whatever :) I could reupload the previous firmware and send it back to hantek if something happens, but seems like all of the parts inside (FPGA/uC/ADC/etc) are orderable and still in production, so it is possible to change them myself.

right, and as soon i'm ready with complette schematics you would be able to trace the potential error.

There is only one exception - CPLD is copy protected and we don't have/knwo what inside. So whatever you do, don't destroy CPLD :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 27, 2011, 09:04:16 pm
So You're reverse engineering the schematics? Afaik the PCB is not 2 layered, so it is pretty hard  :-\
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: baldrick9 on January 28, 2011, 03:07:26 am
In Australia GST (VAT) is not applied to imported shipments valued less than $1,000 AUD i.e when an individual buys from eBay etc.. Electronic test equipment doesn't incur import duty. So I'm not expecting to hear from customs. Maybe this is lucky, compared to other countries. The scope cost me a total of $693 (AUD) including DHL shipping. I understand that I have little-to-no chance of warranty support, but I'm not prepared to pay more than double to get warranty support, that I may not need (it's like insurance - it should not double the price!).

On a more technical note.. my firmware seems to be the slightly newer 2.06.2 (101108.0) - but not the latest 2.06.3

So maybe the only way to hack will be the original way via JTAG or UART?

Sliverstorm - I noticed you had the same version as me and had a problem updating the firmware - how did you fix it? Did you just use the JTAG method?

Thanks to tinhead and all for this thread - it's great stuff!

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 28, 2011, 11:26:01 am
Dear baldrick9,
AUD 693 = EUR 502, not double price anyway compared to our european price (519 + shipping Europe < EUR 545) ;)
There will be on the market (Elec3i) LAN and WIFI add-ons for your DSO5000 series (DSO5202B, DSO5102B, DSO5062C). We will retrofit our DSO stock and can do for customers who need to. According to Hantek, the communication speed will be increased compared to the USB link, but for now we have no idea for the real speed. We will report this later. Another thing is that we should be a Hantek repairing center for Europe (to be confirmed in a while). This can be nice for people who don't want to return their scopes to China (Expensive shipping + custom troubles, etc.). We already repair DSO1000 series for people who didn buy from us.  8)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 28, 2011, 12:59:17 pm
Thats nice pgup62! Are You planning to sell WiFi expansion modules separately? What software support Ethernet/WiFi modules?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on January 28, 2011, 01:15:04 pm
Yes this is a possibility for people who want to do by themselves for either Lan and Wifi boards. we will give precisions later and post prices in our website.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 28, 2011, 01:34:05 pm
DONT BUY FROM THEM ! I WILL BE CHEAPER!

hehe, just joking guys. I did ordered some PCBs and was about to announce the production,
but if Elec3i will sell them too (as manufacturer supported version) i will throw my PCBs into trash.

Manufacturer supported is probably better, and i would be not that much cheaper than they,
so no loss at all for you guys.


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Chasm on January 28, 2011, 01:55:31 pm
And so they get back at you for the bandwidth hack. 8)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on January 28, 2011, 02:43:14 pm
hehe, just joking guys. I did ordered some PCBs and was about to announce the production,
but if Elec3i will sell them too (as manufacturer supported version) i will throw my PCBs into trash.

Don't :) What if manufacturers modules will be crap? :P
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 31, 2011, 01:15:25 am
before i change my mine, how many of you guys would buy such LAN-addon board right now?

The price is not calculated yet, so let's just use dummy number 50USD.


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Regnirps on January 31, 2011, 02:52:10 am
@Zinahe

if you ever heard about "chinese piece of crap", then it was one of such famous things like the UNI-T CEL.

This is one of these management decision devices, not a new design, just a new display, cheap interpolation (actually not interpolation, 4 pixels will be displayed as one) on a cheap 480x234 display. So what is the resolution ? Exact 240 x 120 ...

So no, don't compare it and no there is nothing "similar" (just think about 7' BMW and VW Golf ..  both are cars - you can drive both but you should not compare). For sure some ppl will buy UNI-T, but to be very honest Rigol is cheaper (and with some luck you hack it)
is having 320x240 resolution and light years better than the UNI-T.

About a hcak possibility : UNI-T is like Rigol FPGA + DSP based - the most critical thing is to hack the DSP firmware. Just check the Rigol thread and you will see it can be possible but only if the manufacturer was too lazy ... If you have a chance to get both 100 and i don't know 60MHz? you can try to compare firmwares .. but that's a lot of work, time and it costs some money.

Hello Tinhead. I have a dozen of these Uni-T scopes as we were thinking of selling them. I would like to examine the inside and can not see how they come apart. Did you get one open without damaging it?

The scopes you have been playing with sound more appropriate since I sell and support all the Mini2440/Mini6410 products. They even use the same Innolux LCD as the FriendlyARM 7" systems. We will be shipping from Hong Kong or Shenzhen to Seattle by sea very soon which will cut our incoming shipping costs considerably. The 6410 would be a nice choice for these. The VFP could make quick work of bigger FFT jobs.

By the way, I wonder if the pixel doubling in some of the Uni-T is less of a cheap upgrade and more of a misguided attempt to have the "look" of the early Tektronix small DSOs that were so immensely popular. The display certainly has a very familiar feel.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mala_elektronic on January 31, 2011, 10:19:33 am
@tinhead
I would take one.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: spookytooth on January 31, 2011, 03:03:35 pm
Hi all... 'upgrading' worked fine using UART connection and the shell.
I managed to upgrade to 200MHz and DSO is working fine. But the .ico files for the other models (except the original one) are not included on my system, so I just copied and renamed the original one but it would be nicer to have the correct one being displayed on startup.
Can somebody post a DST1102 and 1202 icon file please? - Thanks...

@tinhead: maybe you can modify your script to copy the missing/required icon files during 'upgrade' as well?


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on January 31, 2011, 05:37:00 pm
attached all logos (ico) files, from both Tekway and Hantek models.



Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: spookytooth on January 31, 2011, 10:35:20 pm
Thanks! Looks much better now  ;)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on February 01, 2011, 03:03:55 am
... since I sell and support all the Mini2440/Mini6410 products.
Maybe You have Your eshop? I am interested in mini2440/6410 boards

before i change my mine, how many of you guys would buy such LAN-addon board right now?
Hm, what about WLAN modules? :) I would be interested in those :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 01, 2011, 03:30:46 am
before i change my mine, how many of you guys would buy such LAN-addon board right now?
Hm, what about WLAN modules? :) I would be interested in those :)
[/quote]

WLAN can be something like:

- USB stick in front panel, like VT6656 (useless, evt. with some modification can work as "remote usb storage" to save setups/screenshots,
   but no shell access)
- USB to WLAN adapter on the back side (useless and unecessary overhead, need to be small (can be but linux not necessary) host translating
   USB to WLAN)
- real memory mapped WLAN module, haven't investigated which chipset can be connected, can be done directly chipset to i/o port or indirectly.

in my opinion only the real memory mapped WLAN module with chipset directly connected to i/o port make sense, everythign else is overhead or unnecessary/useless protocol/port translation from/to/whatever/to/WLAN.

But let's see what HanTekway/Elec3i will develop. The LAN module i build is 10mbit (CS8900A based), fast enough for whatever you need.
Of course i could create a DM9000 based addon board to get 100Mbit, but i'm too lazy (there is ready compiled CS8900A module installed
on HanTekway DSOs - this might change in the future but for now it is sufficient).

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Regnirps on February 01, 2011, 04:39:45 am
... since I sell and support all the Mini2440/Mini6410 products.
Maybe You have Your eshop? I am interested in mini2440/6410 boards

before i change my mine, how many of you guys would buy such LAN-addon board right now?
Hm, what about WLAN modules? :) I would be interested in those :)

www.andahammer.com (http://www.andahammer.com)  I'm not here to push it. A customer put me on to the scope discussion which is pretty interesting and I'd like to open one of the Uni-T wide screen units and check it out. Can not figure how to open it without damage! The S3C2440 based ones are really attractive. I might have a short sale on Uni-T :-) and pick up some of the others in Shenzhen in April, maybe meet the engineers and see whats up.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Regnirps on February 01, 2011, 04:48:04 am
before i change my mine, how many of you guys would buy such LAN-addon board right now?
Hm, what about WLAN modules? :) I would be interested in those :)

WLAN can be something like:

- USB stick in front panel, like VT6656 (useless, evt. with some modification can work as "remote usb storage" to save setups/screenshots,
   but no shell access)
- USB to WLAN adapter on the back side (useless and unecessary overhead, need to be small (can be but linux not necessary) host translating
   USB to WLAN)
- real memory mapped WLAN module, haven't investigated which chipset can be connected, can be done directly chipset to i/o port or indirectly.

in my opinion only the real memory mapped WLAN module with chipset directly connected to i/o port make sense, everythign else is overhead or unnecessary/useless protocol/port translation from/to/whatever/to/WLAN.

But let's see what HanTekway/Elec3i will develop. The LAN module i build is 10mbit (CS8900A based), fast enough for whatever you need.
Of course i could create a DM9000 based addon board to get 100Mbit, but i'm too lazy (there is ready compiled CS8900A module installed
on HanTekway DSOs - this might change in the future but for now it is sufficient).


[/quote]

The old Linux they are using on the S3C2440 (from over 2 years ago and for 2410) needed three tool chains to put together. It usually has TP-Link321 handler and r73 firmware installed somewhere. I don't think you can find a DM9000 setup for that tool chain mess. I have some DVDs with the old software and tools for QQ2410/2440 that I bet are the same thing and the downloads may have never been erased from my hosting site.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 01, 2011, 10:15:35 am
all china DSO have one common thing - the enclosure mechanical construction. Just remove top screws (behind the hangripp so you have to remove it forst), remove bottom screws.

Regards Linux 2.6.13 and DM9000, no there are no issues with drivers.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: baldrick9 on February 03, 2011, 04:37:57 am
Can confirm that the one I received last week has the heatsinks on the ADC's just like the image posted earlier.

The Australian dealer for these wants $1,495 +GST(10%) for the Tekway DST1102b ($AUD). This is crazy stuff!
http://www.triosmartcal.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=1961 (http://www.triosmartcal.com.au/product_info.php?products_id=1961)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Regnirps on February 03, 2011, 07:24:51 pm
all china DSO have one common thing - the enclosure mechanical construction. Just remove top screws (behind the hangripp so you have to remove it forst), remove bottom screws.

Regards Linux 2.6.13 and DM9000, no there are no issues with drivers.

I got into the Uni-T and so far all I see is a Lattice part, an Analog Devices DSP, and some AD A/D converters and an analog amplifier/management chip I need to look up. I have not seem the bottom of the board yet but I have the feeling there is no Samsung ARM and very little likelihood of hacking anything.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Regnirps on February 03, 2011, 09:55:48 pm
I forgot to mention that when I opened the UNi-T, the heavy metal lid to the shielded input section was off and wedged under some structure against the PCB! Now I'll have to open them all I guess. Looks like we will be switching brands if we decide to continue down the instrumentation road.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on February 04, 2011, 08:13:36 pm
Hello tinman and other Tekway hackers,

Can you check the X-Y function of this scope, either native or hacked version?  Can you generate a lissajou pattern with frequencies >= 100kHz?  If you can, what's the limit before the scope starts to choke?

If you've never done it or heard of it, just connect 2 separate sine wave sources, one for each channel, and set the scope to X-Y mode.  This will create a lissajou pattern.  Its CPU intensive.

What it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lissajou (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lissajou)

I've tried it on the Rigol 1052E, and it chokes at 100kHz. 

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 05, 2011, 12:39:34 am
Can you generate a lissajou pattern with frequencies >= 100kHz?  If you can, what's the limit before the scope starts to choke?


no issue up to end of bandwidth, even 190/380MHz has been displayed properly. Starting from 1MHz down to 150Hz there are some small gaps (like on analog scope), but they can be easily "disabled" by the wave persistency setting (e.g. 0.2 sec persistency is fast enough for human eye to produce complette waveform but still fast enough to not produce visual latency). Then from 150 to 20Hz the signal is dropping producing more noice than "waveform".
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on February 05, 2011, 06:37:41 pm
Finally I got my Tekway DST1102B!

Packaging not very aesthetic, pillow, but without significant damage. Check the contents of the box.  
Immediately see a strange gadget that may not be part of the kit – USB hub, which recalls children's toy - colorful rattle. Just yesterday bought his grandson something similar. And here's the USB cable to connect the oscilloscope bundled with a computer was missing.  

The seller had warned me that the device will be the Chinese version, so you see on the front only characters, I sighed heavily, but fainting fell.
A few months ago, purchased from the same seller UTD2102CEL, and got shipped two interchangeable faceplates-English and Chinese.  
Apparently, Tekway saves on a piece of plastic.  

User manual is missing. Even the Chinese version. Instead, delicate brochure for quick installation. Of course, Chinese …  

First time turn ON device. Oh my God, it works!!!  
But to understand the Chinese menu very difficult. Good thing I found online English manual for the device, and already printed it.  
The first tests did not reveal any malfunctions. Knobs revolve, button are pressed, the characters on the display changes. Probably should be.  

Find information about the installed version of the program. It turned out to be pretty old:

model: dst1102b
soft version: 2.03.0 (091231.0).
hard version: 0x555583e9
serial number: T09xx1102bxxxxxx
boot count (?): 49
upgrade log (?): 0

I try to connect the oscilloscope to a PC. PC sees the peripheral and asks you to specify the driver path.
CD find the only one PDF-file - is a Chinese user manual. No program files.
Dead End …
 
I want to see what's inside the device.  
Gently open case, and see that the front metal plate, which closes the display and a button bar, quite dirty. No neat looks and fee for power supply: the traces of the soldering flux and dirty fingers. Take off the upper screen MB. Immediately see whether radiators on chips ADC. They do not exist ... So far it's unpleasant but not fatally. Radiators can glue itself. We'll see that there are in stock and will install.
But first do update on recommendations Tinhead. Here's this and will be soon.  

I have all files and programs that are overlaid Tinhead in this branch of the Forum, and USB cables (A-A and A-B). Special cable type UART or JTAG not, but if necessary, can do it.  On a PC running Windows XP SP3. This is what I have at the moment. I have no experience for hacking such devices.  
I would be very grateful if someone agree to advise me or explain how to properly "step by step" to update the program.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 05, 2011, 08:09:14 pm
Igor,

download

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1571.0;attach=4581 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1571.0;attach=4581)

and

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1571.0;attach=4582 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1571.0;attach=4582)

ask me for help, all depends on your fw version

run it on your windows computer, it will unpack the ***.up file somewhere to your harddrive.
Copy this **.up file to empty usb stick, put on DSO, insert stick into DSO.

Wait 4 sec., click utility button (marked in attached picture), click F2, click F5 (or whatever will be displayed, i believe the old fw is asking for F6) to confirm.

After the update is ready switch off DSO, remove usb stick and switch back on.
Now you should have english language instaled, to enable it again Utility, and F2 (probably  multiple time until you see english).

That's all.

You can get english manual from Hantek.com or tekwayins.net.

They a bit outdated but enough for now.

You can use this picture :
http://www.tekwayins.net/pic/1202B.jpg (http://www.tekwayins.net/pic/1202B.jpg)
to print some english labels for your front panel :)

If something not working as described send me PM, i can guide you through.


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on February 05, 2011, 08:30:44 pm
Thanks a million for that quick test, tinhead!  ;D.  Its looking like Tekway is an overall better scope in performance and capacity, over the Rigol, mostly thanks to all the tests and info you provide.  The more I use the Rigol the more the menus getting too crowded bothers me, and I wish for the wider Tekway screen.

I found an undocumented feature if the Rigol I will post on the Rigol thread, since its more appropriate for these readers to know. Some screen grabs are there too.

The persistence function in the Rigol 1052E works so long as the phase is matched and doesn't drift, otherwise it slowly paints the entire view area a nice solid color!

  
Can you generate a lissajou pattern with frequencies >= 100kHz?  If you can, what's the limit before the scope starts to choke?


no issue up to end of bandwidth, even 190/380MHz has been displayed properly. Starting from 1MHz down to 150Hz there are some small gaps (like on analog scope), but they can be easily "disabled" by the wave persistency setting (e.g. 0.2 sec persistency is fast enough for human eye to produce complette waveform but still fast enough to not produce visual latency). Then from 150 to 20Hz the signal is dropping producing more noice than "waveform".

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 05, 2011, 09:18:19 pm

The persistence function in the Rigol 1052E works so long as the phase is matched and doesn't drift, otherwise it slowly paints the entire view area a nice solid color!


luckily the HanTekway DSO have 0.2sec, i believe the lowest persistance on Rigol is 1sec, that's just too much.
Additionally you can change screen refresh rate on HanTekway between auto, 30, 40 and 50 frames.
I did my tests with 50frames/sec (i just love when the screen is updating very fast), but recognized later that
for phase unsync slow XY signals is better to set auto or 30frames/sec to get even better picture than with persistency on 0.2sec.

So you can see there are some features helping a bit out. Someone mentioned already that the noice level in XY mode is very high
on HanTekway DSOs. But to be very honest it seems to be the same "issue" on Rigol (or at least from what i saw on screenshots).

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on February 06, 2011, 12:02:16 am
Thanks tinhead for those additional Tekway tips.  More adjustments are always helpful, you never know how it can help improve the image!  The only thing I can do with noise is use average mode, since it should cancel each other out and leave the signal alone; alas its disabled in the XY mode!  :'(

Since there are no automated measurements, the last resort is save the image, and manually measure the phase angle using the center of the fat tracing  ;D



The persistence function in the Rigol 1052E works so long as the phase is matched and doesn't drift, otherwise it slowly paints the entire view area a nice solid color!


luckily the HanTekway DSO have 0.2sec, i believe the lowest persistance on Rigol is 1sec, that's just too much.
Additionally you can change screen refresh rate on HanTekway between auto, 30, 40 and 50 frames.
I did my tests with 50frames/sec (i just love when the screen is updating very fast), but recognized later that
for phase unsync slow XY signals is better to set auto or 30frames/sec to get even better picture than with persistency on 0.2sec.

So you can see there are some features helping a bit out. Someone mentioned already that the noice level in XY mode is very high
on HanTekway DSOs. But to be very honest it seems to be the same "issue" on Rigol (or at least from what i saw on screenshots).


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on February 06, 2011, 02:15:39 am
Tinhead, thank you!
I did, now the device is multilingual.  

System status:
model: dst1102b
soft version: 2.06.2 (101028).  
hard version: 0x555583e8  (Change the last digit: 9->8 )
serial number: T09xx1102bxxxxxx
boot count: 62
upgrade log: 1

Can I add another Russian? I'm willing to translate all menus and built-in help.  
How do I upgrade to DST1202B?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 06, 2011, 03:41:01 am

Can I add another Russian? I'm willing to translate all menus and built-in help.  


The help file is SQL Lite v3 DB, you can edit it with your fav. SQL lite editor
Menu is just a text file, it can be translated. The firmware 2.6.2 does support cyrillic characters :
-FontRusAsc22x24
-FontRusAsc19x19

Side note : Not every language can be implemented, the language.lan file is only one part of the story,
the firmware itself need to support it. For 2.6.2 that :

Korean  Korean.lan 
Italian Italian.lan
Spanish Spanish.lan
German  German.lan 
Russian Russian.lan
French  French.lan 
Japan   Japan.lan   
Tridchn Tridchn.lan
Chinese Chinese.lan
English English.lan


In your case there is support already compiled in the dso firmware
but probably Hantek/Tekway not managed (yet) to do proper translation.

Another thing is, you will have to stay on 2.6.2 for now (2.6.3 have too many bugs anyway)
In case you do an update to higher fw version you will have again to change/edit the russian.lan (to match what inside to new menu structure)
If you don't update, your menu will be corrupted :) So it can be a neverending story ...
(until Hantek/Tekway translate by themselve the russian.lan)

But as i said, nothing really hard, it is text file so you can do it easily.

You will have to use for example the English.lan (attached, from 2.6.2 firmware), edit it and save as Russian.lan

Then of course you will have to copy it to /OurLanguages folder of the DSO linuy ... this can be done by special crafted firmware
or for example from USB stick after you connected over UART to the linux shell.

I could prepare such special crafted firmware, but you will have probably to do some testings anyway
(espacially with the help.db translation), so the best for you will be to learn how to connect via UART to DSO linux shell.

On the very first page there are pictures of UART port (UART0), you will have to buy UART-> USB adapter (ebay for "cp2102 usb ttl")
and to use your fav. terminal application (e.g. putty)


How do I upgrade to DST1202B?


well, it is in this thread, but i will do it very simple for you :)

download this

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1571.0;attach=4577 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1571.0;attach=4577)

copy to usb stick and run firmware update. After reboot you will have DST1202B
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on February 06, 2011, 04:27:09 am
Tinhead – you're the best!  :)

Now I have not "chinese soap dish", and wonderful oscilloscope DST1202B!  

System status:
model: dst1202b
soft version: 2.06.2 (101028)
hard version: 0x555583e8
serial number: T09xx1102bxxxxxx
boot count: 65
upgrade log: 2

I won't rush translation system menu. Will do that once a new version of 2.06.3.

Tinhead, if you need help with translation to Russian, can count on me.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: zare on February 15, 2011, 07:04:00 pm
Looks to me that Tekway DST1102B and Hantek DSO5102B is the same scope, but the Hantek is bit cheaper. Should I expect better quality with Tekway?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 15, 2011, 07:15:49 pm
Looks to me that Tekway DST1102B and Hantek DSO5102B is the same scope

well yes they are.

... but the Hantek is bit cheaper. Should I expect better quality with Tekway?

I know i reported that 60Mhz Hantek have some 1% instead of 0.1% resistors,
but on the other side 1% is still sufficient and they not making a real price difference (that's about 12 resistors per scope).
Other parts have exact the same specs, so what (it was probably just a delivery issues, so they soldered 1% resistrors).

Both companies are delivering with heatsinks on ADCs, both is not soldering the 2.54 headers anylonger (except UART),
both have same probes.

The only real diff (as until of now, but i think that will change too in the future) is that Tekway seems to be soldered a bit cleaner,
which means they have still own production line what probably make the price
diff (as Tekway is only producing these DSOs and Hantek many other things).

So it don't need to be necessary quality driven, it can be marketing/production cost thing.



Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Scrts on February 16, 2011, 09:53:08 pm
Looks to me that Tekway DST1102B and Hantek DSO5102B is the same scope, but the Hantek is bit cheaper. Should I expect better quality with Tekway?


Open a Hantek scope and check PCBs. Its all Tekway inside, every single PCB marked Tekway.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: zare on February 16, 2011, 11:44:05 pm
Thanks guys .. Hantek on order  ;) ..
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on February 18, 2011, 01:26:15 pm
Yes I confirm, even Hantek english user's manual show Tekway front panels instead of their Hantek front panels, a little bit funny  :D, we feel sorry for this.
We are translating this user's manual into french, and put our own pictures (With hantek this time)... ;)
Hantek/Tekway buyers, do not forget Elec3i for your purchase  ;D
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 19, 2011, 12:04:25 am
Hantek/Tekway buyers, do not forget Elec3i for your purchase  ;D

Hi Pascal,

i got nice answer from Hantek/Tekway, they will not release the SDK yet (company policy - the firmware have too many bugs
and they wish first to fix them before SDK will be released, this is good idea).

The only bad thing is - they will not release the source code. So you know what this means, they using illegal operating system
(it is actually stolen if you don't publish sources as requested in the GPL) making the whole DSO illegal in European Union.
So you asking ppl now to buying illegal (actually stolen) product ?


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Gall on February 19, 2011, 07:43:09 am
I think it's about time to take a legal action about this. Please forward the answer to http://gpl-violations.org/ (http://gpl-violations.org/)

I think about developing the firmware from scratch.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on February 19, 2011, 02:24:26 pm
Tinhead,
You are right and I asked them to release the sources too, I am waiting for their reply. I feel confident something will happen in the right way...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: dfnr2 on February 20, 2011, 04:57:37 pm

i got nice answer from Hantek/Tekway, they will not release the SDK yet (company policy - the firmware have too many bugs
and they wish first to fix them before SDK will be released, this is good idea).

The only bad thing is - they will not release the source code.

Hi Tinhead,

Is the SDK for developing software on a PC communicating with the scope by USB or RS232, or is it for extending functionality built in to the scope?  Judging from their bacground in USB scopes and lack of SCPI, I imagine it's the first option.  The second option would be surprising, but much more interesting.

Regarding the GPL, they may be obligated to provide access to compilable version of the GPL code such as the kernel and any GPL libraries, but still won't be obligated to provide access to the scope application or any of the HDL.  It would be nice to have sources frr these, of course!

Dave
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on February 20, 2011, 05:29:20 pm
A friend went back Taiwan bring me back a Hantek DSO5102B in his backpack, about CAD$450 from hantek distributor. Yep, if u got friend in china, then u can have it about $400 or less.

Open up, every piece made by tekway, only little diff on firmware. Has reserved fan connector holes on board and fan bracket, but maybe no need a fan, as let it continue work 4-5 hours highest temp was 43 celsius degree on PSU. Probes come woth it are 150Mhz, yep, I have better, it's not a matter for me.

Before I open it up, I had a feeling that this one is 200Mhz ready, as the SN lable on the back of machine is T 1G/200M 00xxxx, but firmware show T 1G/100M 00xxxx. Yep after I open it up it is 200Mhz ready--44A(280) and 330 risistors on board.

Sadlly, firmware is 2.06.02(101108.0), that means I may not update it just by usb without lie to DSO.

Havn't play it too much, but will do.

Also thanks Tinhead, I almost pull the trigger on Atten ADS1102CAL right before I saw this post.  

Btw I think the front shell and knobs color should be gray instead irovy, as time and heat will let irovy turns to yellowish. 

  
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on February 20, 2011, 05:36:19 pm
For above someone asked could not find USB driver for windows 7. You can just install TTscope on CD come with your machine first, and plug DSO in and manual install driver from TTscope installation directory under x:\program file\TTscope\drivers or similar, accept install driver anyway, it'll work. But when u trying to connect it with TTscope, it'll report sort of error and won't work anyhow. 
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 20, 2011, 08:26:34 pm
For above someone asked could not find USB driver for windows 7. You can just install TTscope on CD come with your machine first, and plug DSO in and manual install driver from TTscope installation directory under x:\program file\TTscope\drivers or similar, accept install driver anyway, it'll work. But when u trying to connect it with TTscope, it'll report sort of error and won't work anyhow. 

just don't use the TTScope from CD, the one on Hantek website is bit better, especially drivers.

Before I open it up, I had a feeling that this one is 200Mhz ready, as the SN lable on the back of machine is T 1G/200M 00xxxx, but firmware show T 1G/100M 00xxxx. Yep after I open it up it is 200Mhz ready--44A(280) and 330 risistors on board.

oh that's even better for you, after hack to 200MHz bw the calibration will match 100%.

Btw I think the front shell and knobs color should be gray instead irovy, as time and heat will let irovy turns to yellowish. 

actually Hantek is mix of gray and ivory, Tekway's frontpanel is typical ivory (which i like because match to my other already yellowish toys)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on February 21, 2011, 07:05:48 am
just don't use the TTScope from CD, the one on Hantek website is bit better, especially drivers.

Yes u are right, TTScope on Hantek website works fine. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ianryeng on February 22, 2011, 05:00:47 am
So after spending a lot of time debating buying Atten, then finding and reading this entire thread (thank you to all of you who have contributed) I no longer am interested in Atten and want to get one of these instead. The questions I have are is there a preference (quality, potential future support, ect) between Hantek and Tekway? Also is the 100MHz version worth $140USD more than the 60 or has anyone here successfully upgraded a 60 to say a 100 or even 200 (money is tight so if its not necessary I don't want to spend it)?

Sorry for all the questions and I appreciate any responses.

Thanks,

-Ian

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on February 22, 2011, 01:05:15 pm
So after spending a lot of time debating buying Atten, then finding and reading this entire thread (thank you to all of you who have contributed) I no longer am interested in Atten and want to get one of these instead. The questions I have are is there a preference (quality, potential future support, ect) between Hantek and Tekway? Also is the 100MHz version worth $140USD more than the 60 or has anyone here successfully upgraded a 60 to say a 100 or even 200 (money is tight so if its not necessary I don't want to spend it)?

Sorry for all the questions and I appreciate any responses.

Thanks,

-Ian


This was the question that I had before I got my. Believe Tinhead. Hantek and tekway are identical, all their boards made by tekway, diff maybe just on firmware/logo and frontpanel cosmatic look.

Yes, you can mod 60 to 100 or to 200,or 100 to 200. someone already confirm it. All you need is change some risistors and hack the software. but Three things remind you.
1.Those are SMD resistors, you'll need proper tool and skill to change them (hot gun or smd tweezer iron), and resistors cost money. Mine's lucky, come with 200 ready.
2. For hantek5102B 2.6.2(101108.0), you'll need JTAG way to hack it, or modify USB files to cheat DSO. I don't know tekway.
3. I heard probes come 60Mhz is 80Mhz. You may ask these to confirm. My 100Mhz come with 150Mhz.  Good probes cost quite a bit in NA, 1/10 price in China.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on February 22, 2011, 01:11:12 pm
BTW, the headers on my 5102b come with two size. FPAG JTAG header is 2.5mm, ARM JTAG and I/O header are 2mm. Not soldered.

And we don't need remove handle to remove top two screws, only need is open it by 45 degree, you'll got enough space to remove them.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ianryeng on February 22, 2011, 02:13:54 pm
Hey,

Thanks for the quick response and feedback.
If probes are the only real difference I will factor that in and see how much difference there really is in the cost.
In terms of reworking the front end I don't expect too many problems.

Thanks again, I appreciate the feedback. Now I just need to convince my wife...
Hope to be bugging you again soon to mod one of these :)

-Ian
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 22, 2011, 02:23:44 pm
This was the question that I had before I got my. Believe Tinhead. Hantek and tekway are identical, all their boards made by tekway, diff maybe just on firmware/logo and frontpanel cosmatic look.

exact, they identical.

Yes, you can mod 60 to 100 or to 200,or 100 to 200. someone already confirm it.
the whole thread is about the mod, and yes this works.

All you need is change some risistors and hack the software. but Three things remind you.

not exactly, if ~180-190MHz are enough for you then you don't have to change these resistors.


1.Those are SMD resistors, you'll need proper tool and skill to change them (hot gun or smd tweezer iron), and resistors cost money. Mine's lucky, come with 200 ready.

as above ... Btw, i would not recommend to change them if you have no additional test equipment to evt. change the internal compensation.

2. For hantek5102B 2.6.2(101108.0), you'll need JTAG way to hack it, or modify USB files to cheat DSO. I don't know tekway.

right, Hantek for sure Tekway i got reported some models where the hac was still working over USB,
but generally spoken yes you have to do it over uart

3. I heard probes come 60Mhz is 80Mhz. You may ask these to confirm. My 100Mhz come with 150Mhz.  Good probes cost quite a bit in NA, 1/10 price in China.

yeah, that's the major problem. IF you have already good probes you will probably don't care, but if you don't you will have to buy better probes.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tom66 on February 25, 2011, 01:44:23 am
tinhead, do you have the input schematic for this scope? I am trying to learn a bit more about oscilloscope inputs and filters. I lost the original PDF, then you took it down. Would appreciate it, thanks!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: SuperMiguel on February 25, 2011, 05:21:17 am
why do you give the option of 100MHz, 150, and 200? why not just 200? why should any one want to be at 100/150 when they can have 200Mhz??
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ianryeng on February 25, 2011, 05:32:49 am
Aside from the fact that people may want to play around with different limits to see the differences the fact that all firmwares are available would be very convenient in the event of failure to revert to factory settings if you wanted to try and claim the warranty. Just my guess though.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 25, 2011, 12:35:51 pm
tinhead, do you have the input schematic for this scope? I am trying to learn a bit more about oscilloscope inputs and filters. I lost the original PDF, then you took it down. Would appreciate it, thanks!

yeah i do have, currently a bit busy with other things but soon i will publish it, together with Ethernet-addon schematic.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on February 25, 2011, 12:39:31 pm
yeah i do have, currently a bit busy with other things but soon i will publish it, together with Ethernet-addon schematic.

Wow?this sounds great, can't wait it.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on February 25, 2011, 02:19:35 pm
why do you give the option of 100MHz, 150, and 200? why not just 200? why should any one want to be at 100/150 when they can have 200Mhz??

I think that some day it is good to open new thread where handle things what are related to analog channel quality and frequency response together with true A/D conversion samplerate.

I think this is important to look these things without connection to one scope manufacturer/model.

These things are fundamentals for understanding digital oscilloscopes and also for avoid some possible "hidden" effects to measuring accuracy and for avoid some problems.

It is not so that as wide analog channel as can made is better - specially if talk about realtime measurements as FFT or single shot or other measurements where we use realtime sampling and not repetitive sampling (Rigol named id "egual time...")

There are some good readings for this:


http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5989-5732EN.pdf (http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5989-5732EN.pdf)

http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5989-5733EN.pdf (http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5989-5733EN.pdf)

http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5989-3020EN.pdf (http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5989-3020EN.pdf)

http://www.emcsociety.org/Presentations/IEEE%20Seminar%20Scopes%20and%20Radar.pdf (http://www.emcsociety.org/Presentations/IEEE%20Seminar%20Scopes%20and%20Radar.pdf)

As long as do not rise (by mod) samplerate there is growing problem with aliasing if make analog channel more wide.
But also this problen must not overlook. Only need undertand that oscilloscope is always some kind of compromise. Good there, error there. What you see is sum of errors summed to original signal under test.

With digital camera you can easy see if picture is good enough for tell what is real what you take picture.
Scope situation is different... only "window" to signal is your scope display... but, sometimes it is wrong. How to avoid this... design scope so that all fundamentals are ok.

Example if you look FFT and signal under test include components what freq go over Nyquist.. what you see.. you see totally lies about signal under test. You can see signal (example just wrong frequency high spike... but real signal do not have it at all. Why... you read papers then you know.
It is like bad radio where you listen signals totally in wrong frequency only becouse front end and mixer etc is toy.

I hope some with good english and more time open new thread for handle these fundamentals...
You do not buy best camera by looking only more pixels... you do not get more good oscilloscope if you look only samplerate and MHz number.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on February 25, 2011, 09:44:04 pm
so i just got mine DSO5062B and i tried to updated it to the 200Mhz.. So i went here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg24564#msg24564 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg24564#msg24564)
downloaded do_hantek_DSO5202B.zip extracted it to a flash drive and when i hit update firmware i get an error saying:

Software upgrade failed, error 0xf7 Ilegal upgrade files detected!

System status shows:

model: DSO5062B
soft version: 2.06.2 (101108.0)
hard version: 0x555583e8


This version need hack by UART or JTAG way. Or make a file to cheat the DSO, read few pages back, Tinhead explained this. Guess more people ask, Tinhead may release new version USB files.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 25, 2011, 10:58:56 pm
so i just got mine DSO5062B and i tried to updated it to the 200Mhz.. Software upgrade failed, error 0xf7 Ilegal upgrade files detected!

System status shows:

model: DSO5062B
soft version: 2.06.2 (101108.0)
hard version: 0x555583e8


you really funny guy, complained about warranty but 5min after DSO arrived directly trying to hack.
Waht do you think how many DSO mortoncontrols sold yesterday and how many got shipped today ? So it will be easy for them
to recognize your name .. and that's all about your warranty.


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 26, 2011, 12:00:07 am
Guess more people ask, Tinhead may release new version USB files.

i could, but i think it is better to hack via UART, just because of such things:
- if USB hack/update fails because of whatever user will have no clue how to fix broken DSO
- too many versions necessary (H60->H100, H60->H200, H100->H200, H200->H100, H200-> H60, H100->H60, T60->T100, T60->T200,
  T100->T200, T200->T100, T200-> T60, T100->T60  ), user will don't know what/when/why
- i promised Han/Tekway to not create any new USB hacks
- i wish Han/Tekway will spend time on fixing firmware bigs and the SDK - and not on new protections only because
  i created another one USB hack for "lazy" ppl

What i will post is a new firmware dump utility, so everybody will be able (again) to make a backup of installed firmware.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 26, 2011, 12:50:22 am
New Firmware dump utility

this version works with fw 2.5 to 2.6.x (and later?)

Hantek/Tekway did added some protection into firmware update procedure, therefore the fw dump
utility need to be changed too.

Attached fw_backupV3.zip, it contains folders named as DSO names/models, all you have to do is
to copy dst1kb_9.99.9_cli(200101.0).up from proper folder (must be same as your DSO model!) to USB stick
and like always run firmware update (can take up to 5mins)


This tool will not hack nor change anything on your DSO, it will only create dump of your currenty firmware
and save it on the USB flash drive.

UPDATED: new version is V3a (see in universal folder from the attached zip file), it does use special trick
to be model independant.


EDIT: if you get error 0xFE while using the "universal" backup version, then rename the
"special_secret_dst1kb_9.99.9_cli(200101.1).up" to "dst1kb_9.99.9_cli(200101.1).up"
and try again :)


simply download, unpack and read how to use ... it contains also some informations and tools to allow restore of the backup

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on February 26, 2011, 12:04:23 pm
Tinhead, you write: "must be same as your DSO model!"  
I have a DST1102B but the DSO installed DST1202B. Which model do I specify, and do I need to update your software?
I installed your program without saving the original.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on February 26, 2011, 12:16:33 pm
I think they're watching this thread  ;)

New Firmware dump utility
Hantek/Tekway did added some protection into firmware update procedure, therefore the fw dump
utility need to be changed too.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 26, 2011, 12:24:54 pm
Tinhead, you write: "must be same as your DSO model!"  
I have a DST1102B but the DSO installed DST1202B. Which model do I specify, and do I need to update your software?
I installed your program without saving the original.

well if you hacked to whatever model then this is your new model name an not what printed out on enclore.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on February 26, 2011, 01:33:51 pm
I think they're watching this thread  ;)

New Firmware dump utility
Hantek/Tekway did added some protection into firmware update procedure, therefore the fw dump
utility need to be changed too.

This forum (look link later) they also maybe watch. (Whole this Chinese forum, in some special topics and threads you can find wery avesome things... (but some of course is just garbage... but some threads you can find very extremely professional things... there are also some special highest level knowledge peoples.. as you can see example some voltage reference threads.. (ok... someone do not know enough about LTZ1000 things... ok.. lets look with RTG and other thigs what silicon have eat inside can... hehe. Olso some pictures about "homelab" where is ton Fluke Voltage standards and maybe aalso Josephson on the corner.

I mean this forum in China (you need windows asian language support installed) http://www.ourdev.cn/bbs/bbs_content.jsp?bbs_sn=4529838&bbs_page_no=1&search_mode=1&search_text=Tekway&bbs_id=3053 (http://www.ourdev.cn/bbs/bbs_content.jsp?bbs_sn=4529838&bbs_page_no=1&search_mode=1&search_text=Tekway&bbs_id=3053)

Becouse chinese language it is "littlebit" difficult use and find things but.. go to "home" and start. Interesting. Some times there you can look peoples do things what they want, somewhere peoplses do only what they can... ;)

tinhead is famous man in China...

;)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 26, 2011, 01:37:37 pm
I think they're watching this thread  ;)

sure, they watching very carefuly, especially after this hack has been notified by chinese ppl (from ourdev.cn).
This thread is 99% about the hack, however i do have other thread in different forums about users experiences or
firmware bugs (yeah, currently fw2.6.3 have "too" many - but there is a very good progress and new fw will be ready in few days, so what).

EDIT: hehe you right rf-loop, i think the next time i fly to china i will get killed but also will get some flowers too :P
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on February 28, 2011, 03:23:43 pm
Tinhead bie dan xin, zhong guo ren hen hao !
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on February 28, 2011, 05:53:04 pm
hehe i actually don't really worry :)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: SoftwareSamurai on March 01, 2011, 12:28:21 pm
- i promised Han/Tekway to not create any new USB hacks
- i wish Han/Tekway will spend time on fixing firmware bigs and the SDK - and not on new protections only because i created another one USB hack for "lazy" ppl

Q. Does that mean the rest of us can't/shouldn't talk about the USB hacks?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 01, 2011, 01:20:57 pm

Q. Does that mean the rest of us can't/shouldn't talk about the USB hacks?

First of all for most ppl a DSO is a measurment device and they will use it for measurments.
However, a manufacturer can't stop ppl playing around, there will be always someone who will touch the hardware\firmware
and always someone talking about, so of course you can talk about it, why not.

You can be sure that this hack will not work forever, sooner or later Han/Tekway will change FPGA design or CPLD design
or even PCB design to provent hacks. For now all they can do was to change the software. If i release a new USB hack they
will again release new software protection - and to be very honest i think there are more important tasks on their to-do list
than new hack-protection.

The SDK was planned for end of January - not yet done, necessary firmware changes are bit buggy so they have to fix them first before SDK
can be released. Additionally Ethernet addon is planned (which is again a big change to firmware) - all these changes are
more important than a "hack for lazy ppl" - which USB hack is.

Someone who knows ARM architecture and familiar with Linux will not destroy DSO by "playing around",
more critical are let say "lazy ppl" who just don't know how to fix if something get wrong during hack.
The USB hack was maybe a good solution for the beginning, but there was also potential risk of device damage.
As i said, i could compile new USB hacks (12 pcs to cover all model changes), but this will increase the risk
(not only for beginners) - which is bad for manufacturer (warranty questions, bad statements about manufacturer and so on).

Therefore no USB hacks (except things which can't harm DSO, like fw-dump/fw-restore, Eth-enabler, whatever),

If you wish to hack buy a UART-> USB converter, learn about linux/vi, and hack via UART - or buy ARM JTAG and S3C2440
based board, backup DSOs NAND content over JTAG, restore to your S3C2440 dev board, hack there is restore back to DSO.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: SoftwareSamurai on March 01, 2011, 02:19:32 pm
Yes, I do understand all of that. My question was more focused on the rest of us discussing USB modding (or modding in general) of these DSOs in this forum.

The reason I ask is because I'm a software engineer (over 20 years experience), I've got a DSO5102B and a USB TTL UART, I've been researching all of this for a little while now, and I'd like to document/discuss my findings with everyone here. But I just wanted to know what your policy was on others posting what could be considered...let's say "sensitive"...information regarding these DSOs. And when I saw your post saying that you promised not to post any more USB hacks, I thought it would be a good idea for me to ask first.

So tinhead, would it be okay with you if I were to start a new thread discussing in detail these DSO's internal workings (with some info regarding USB modding) and modding in general?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 01, 2011, 04:43:11 pm
But I just wanted to know what your policy was on others posting what could be considered...let's say "sensitive"...information regarding these DSOs. And when I saw your post saying that you promised not to post any more USB hacks, I thought it would be a good idea for me to ask first.

So tinhead, would it be okay with you if I were to start a new thread discussing in detail these DSO's internal workings (with some info regarding USB modding) and modding in general?

sure, but no issue at all. You can open a new thread or use this one (maybe even better) to discuss modding/internal things.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 01, 2011, 09:40:26 pm
So let's start other mods with Ethernet-addon schematics.

Attached working schematic (as pdf). There is nothing special except the RJ45 jack which can be

- Tyco 1888250-1 with LEDs (PCB mounted with Harwin Spacers R30-3001102 and double size 2mm pitch header)
[DK A98526-ND, DK 952-1502-ND]
or
- Tyco 5406298-1 without LEDs (PCB mounted with Harwin Spacers R30-3001502 and tripple size 2mm pitch header)
[DK 5406298-1-ND, DK 952-1506-ND]

The PCB itself is 70x62mm, screenshot of dimenssions for PCB with Tyco 1888250-1 RJ45 jack.

RJ45 jack is mounted on bottom side, it is a bit tricky due the fact that there is almost no space (1-3mm, depends on jack)
between jack and RAM on the DSO PCB. Everything else is on top of the PCB (of course except 2mm header) to
reduce EMI (bottom full grounded). The best would be 4layer PCB, but it works with 2layers too.

As the HanTekway DSO have already pre-compiled CS8900A drivers all we have to do is to edit
the /etc/init.d/rcS (just add these line before "/etc/rc.d/init.d/hotplug start" line)

insmod /dso/driver/dso-cs8900.ko
/sbin/ifconfig lo 127.0.0.1
/dso/app/setnet 00:11:38:33:44:55 1.2.3.4

where 1.2.3.4 is the IP address which will be used by DSO

and add this line before "/dso.exe" line

/etc/rc.d/init.d/netd start

This will load the CS8900A driver and start inetd with ftp and telnet enabled.
For FTP you wil of course login first time over telnet add add a user, e.g.
adduser myftp

The "/dso/app/setnet" is HanTekway compiled tool to make the network configuration easier,
however you can of course use ifconfig if you like it.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: SoftwareSamurai on March 02, 2011, 01:23:09 am
Okay, I'd like to share some info regarding the USB Update Firmware.

Note: All my work has been done using my Hantek DSO5102B w/ v2.06.2(101108.0) firmware.

While testing out the USB Update Firmware functionality (and how much I can do with it via the update script), I suddenly hit a wall where the Update Firmware would always fail (error 0xf7) no matter what I did. After tracking it down, I discovered that I had left a CTRL-M (CR) at the end of the logotype.dis file. (Obviously I had attempted to replace the file with one edited on my PC, which uses CR+LF instead of just LF.)

So the Update Firmware is scanning certain files for CTRL-M characters, and if it finds any, it will abort the update process with error 0xf7.

Here's the result of my testing of some files:
   sys.inf - not checked (probably because it's re-created after each successful update)
   tmpdst - not checked (also appears to be re-created after each successful update)
   logotype - not checked (ditto)
   logotype.dis - checked!
   upend - not checked
   update - checked! (but apparently no other files in the tekwayup_client directory are checked)

There may be other files scanned. These are just a few that I've tested directly.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 02, 2011, 02:00:08 am
if you download the fw_backupV3.zip you will see what is always needed to allow an update,
in principle it is only the logotype.dis which need to be present in firmware file
and the content must match the content of logotype.dis in DSO root directory.

The CR+LF issue is just because the firmware update procedure does string compare.

If you decompile dso.exe you will see the "magic" arround ubdb.swi, logotype.dis,
ucUpdateType, ucSysType, ucSysBrand and ucUpdateBrand
- just look for UpdateSysFiles procedure.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: SoftwareSamurai on March 02, 2011, 02:50:21 am
if you download the fw_backupV3.zip you will see what is always needed to allow an update, in principle it is only the logotype.dis which need to be present in firmware file and the content must match the content of logotype.dis in DSO root directory.

I started my experimenting using one of those backup .up files. Eventually I ended up boiling it all down to just the upend file and the update file. I found that I was able to do just about any shell command in the update file. That's why I started experimenting with the USB Update Firmware feature. In fact, one of the first things I did was to do a complete copy of / onto a 4GB thumbdrive (not including things like /dev or /proc, etc).

The logotype.dis file I was referring to is the one located in the root of the main filesystem (/logotype.dis). If that file has a CR in it, the update will fail.

The CR+LF issue is just because the firmware update procedure does string compare.

Apparently so. I guess the string compare includes the LF at the end of the line(s), and fails when it has CR+LF at the end of any line.

If you decompile dso.exe you will see the "magic" arround ubdb.swi, logotype.dis, ucUpdateType, ucSysType, ucSysBrand and ucUpdateBrand - just look for UpdateSysFiles procedure.

Well I haven't gotten to the point of decompiling dso.exe. I've just been experimenting with the update feature. But now that I've got my UART connected and working, it's much easier to "debug" when the update fails.

On your previous subject - I'm looking forward to the Ethernet add-on. I think that would be an excellent "upgrade" for these scopes!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: SoftwareSamurai on March 03, 2011, 03:03:29 am
Q. What's the file format for the .ico files? (e.g. hantek_DSO5202B_mid.ico) Anyone know? It looks like a .png or RGB format to me.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 04, 2011, 01:34:21 am
Q. What's the file format for the .ico files? (e.g. hantek_DSO5202B_mid.ico) Anyone know? It looks like a .png or RGB format to me.

just like typical 8bit bmp (without header so yes only RGB data), BGR, LSB first. The actual data starts on 8 bit position of the file, the first and second positions are bitmap size (e.g. samll icons from icon dir have 14h 00h = 20 pix large).

So the hantek_DSO5202B_mid.ico is 497pix.

EDIT: byte 4h have afaik transparency information stored, so if you wish to replce picture manipulate only the data starting from 8h
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 04, 2011, 12:24:41 pm
Hi all,

I was about to purchase a Tekway DST1202 from a trader in China. But when the trader asked the manufacturer about supplying a Australian 240V power plug, he was told that they now don't supply Chinese traders with English menu oscilloscopes, they would only supply him oscilloscopes with Chinese menu. He was told this was to protect their overseas agents. He indicated that Hantek also wouldn't supply oscilloscopes with English menu.

I wonder if China have a Trade Practice Act (law), isn't that restricting free trade.

A search on Ebay didn't find any Tekways.

Does anyone know where a Hantek or Tekway DST1202 or DST1102 can be purchased for a reasonable price.

Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: SoftwareSamurai on March 04, 2011, 12:26:23 pm
Does anyone know where a Hantek or Tekway DST1202 or DST1102 can be purchased for a reasonable price.
What do you consider a "reasonable price"?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on March 04, 2011, 01:13:39 pm
Our prices (Elec3i) are the best in Europe, and for Australia, shipping costs from France are a bit expensive, but perhaps we can support half price for shipping. I can inquire Hantek to dropship to you ;). Although the pins on the Chinese plug are 1 mm (0.039 in) longer, the Australasian plug can be used with mainland Chinese socket, but contrary is not so sure, we must investigate about this. ::)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on March 04, 2011, 02:39:41 pm
But if they sell it to you, that isn't restricted, isn't it?  Seems like if you buy a Chinese product in China, why should they supply English or any other non-Chinese instructions?

Hi all,

I was about to purchase a Tekway DST1202 from a trader in China. But when the trader asked the manufacturer about supplying a Australian 240V power plug, he was told that they now don't supply Chinese traders with English menu oscilloscopes, they would only supply him oscilloscopes with Chinese menu. He was told this was to protect their overseas agents. He indicated that Hantek also wouldn't supply oscilloscopes with English menu.

I wonder if China have a Trade Practice Act (law), isn't that restricting free trade.

A search on Ebay didn't find any Tekways.

Does anyone know where a Hantek or Tekway DST1202 or DST1102 can be purchased for a reasonable price.

Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 04, 2011, 03:11:24 pm
Tekway


USD 580 and free shipping in this store in mainland China: Store http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788 (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788)


(I have also talk in phone with this store man "Mr Pioneer Huang" But I did not buy becouse I find more economy solution (not only one scope))

Scope in this store http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html)


In Ali you can also chat with seller and this seller also answer phone if you want check for security. (you ask his phone if you need)
Also you can buy with safe system (seller get money after you get scope - but you send money first...)
This seller write quite good english.

And also you can select with same price Hantek or Tekway (100MHz)
MOQ = 1pcs
price USD580
Shipping = Free by DHL (and I think also to Australia)

Power cord... normal power plug in scope end ... just as nearly all equipment you can buy compatible power cable in your country.
China normal electric is 50Hz 220 - 230Vac. (only what chance is this cable wall end, scope end is always same)

With same price my own opinion is "buy Tekway" mut this is only my opinion.

Also you can use PayPal
There is also Escrow (littlebit more safety) system between you and seller.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 04, 2011, 10:40:30 pm
Thanks rf-loop and all for your help.

Mr Pioneer Huang was one of the Chinese traders who said that he only had Telway oscilloscopes with Chinese Menu (display). Another Chinese trader said that both Tekway and Hantek would now only supply him with Chinese Menu oscilloscopes. And that the reason was to protect their overseas agents. It was only when he talked to the manufacturers that he found this out.

Maybe it looks as if purchasing oscilloscopes from China is impossible if you want a Tekway or Hantek English menu (display) oscilloscope.

When I say a English Menu, I mean the display on the oscilloscope, not the user instructions as I should be able to download that from the internet.

Is this restricting free trade? I would say yes because you can't purchase a English display oscilloscope from a Chinese trader, you have to go through the manufacturer's agents in another country. Maybe someone who lives in China may want a English Menu display.

Question, will the hack also fix the language problem if there is a command to change the language?

Thanks all for your help.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 04, 2011, 11:39:23 pm
RFman

why you just don't red this thread ? The only difference is the enclosure, so if you can work with chinese fron panel
buy in china - the firmware (so that what will be displayed ) can be changed to one of the supported languages.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 05, 2011, 12:27:19 am
I finally got time to mod my 5102 today. problem for me is I don't have rs232-ttl/cmos adapter or arm jtag adapter in hand. Spend few mins to figue out that i can build those adapter by myself without waiting shipping. while digging parts, I found a board from a tape library has a max232 with one set rs232-ttl ports not been used, this make thing more easy, get proper cable/wire and connecor, open up DSO, and connect to computer.While DSO booting hit Crtl-C then go into shell, then just did as Tinhead's first post, after reboot with a caliberation, a 200Mhz bw reborn. Copy .ico for 5202 to /logo without delete old 5102 .ico, make thing more perfect.

I check the power board, The reserve fan connector has a dedicated 12v power supply(7812). But I would like the fan run less speed, I connect the fun to 5v on board, not even can hear fan noise.

And next thing is obtain newer firmware, 2.06.2 has few bugs.

Thanks Tinhead again.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 05, 2011, 01:17:51 am

I check the power board, The reserve fan connector has a dedicated 12v power supply(7812). But I would like the fan run less speed, I connect the fun to 5v on board, not even can hear fan noise.


replace the 7812 by 7805, it is oly dedicated for fan, so no big deal - and of course less stress for the 5V on main PCB.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 05, 2011, 02:25:48 am
replace the 7812 by 7805, it is oly dedicated for fan, so no big deal - and of course less stress for the 5V on main PCB.

That's what I'm gonna to do, but not now.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on March 05, 2011, 06:03:07 am
Question, will the hack also fix the language problem if there is a command to change the language?
See my questions on Tekway DST1102 in the Chinese version of Tinhead, and answers, starting with # 212 in this forum thread.


Pages Tekway and Hantek in the English version from Aliexpress :
http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788/210894552-414442182/DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1062B-Oscilloscope-2channels-60MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788/210894552-414442182/DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1062B-Oscilloscope-2channels-60MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800.html)

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788/210894552-414433064/DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788/210894552-414433064/DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800.html)

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788/210894552-414455314/DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1202B-Oscilloscope-2channels-200MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788/210894552-414455314/DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1202B-Oscilloscope-2channels-200MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800.html)

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788/210894552-414452263/DHL-Free-Shipping-Hantek-DSO5062B-Oscilloscope-2channels-60MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788/210894552-414452263/DHL-Free-Shipping-Hantek-DSO5062B-Oscilloscope-2channels-60MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800.html)

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788/210894552-414451305/DHL-Free-Shipping-Hantek-DSO5102M-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788/210894552-414451305/DHL-Free-Shipping-Hantek-DSO5102M-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800.html)

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788/210894552-414454351/DHL-Free-Shipping-Hantek-DSO5202B-Oscilloscope-2channels-200MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788/210894552-414454351/DHL-Free-Shipping-Hantek-DSO5202B-Oscilloscope-2channels-200MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800.html)

Surprisingly, Aliexpress to describe instruments quoted Tinhead (see first post in this thread):

" What inside Tekway DST1xxxB:
4 x AD9288 ADCs (yes, for 1GSs overclocked to 125MHz in 8ns, 4ns and 2ns time base - like Instek GDS1102A)
2 x AD8370 amps (750MHz bw - input stage like Rigol)
2 x LMH6552 amps (1.5GHz bw - input stage like Rigol)
ADCMP562 ECL comparator (for trigger)
Altera Cyclone III FPGA (ADC sampling control and data acquisition)
Altera Max II CPLD (long/short memory management - copy protected)
Samsung S3C2440 (user i/o, UI interface, TFT control)
EEPROM with s/n
some NAND, SRAM and SDRAM memory and of course bunch of other things (no cheap parts which is good)"


Tinhead, You need to receive royalties!  ;D
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 05, 2011, 06:38:23 am
Thanks rf-loop and all for your help.

Mr Pioneer Huang was one of the Chinese traders who said that he only had Telway oscilloscopes with Chinese Menu (display). Another Chinese trader said that both Tekway and Hantek would now only supply him with Chinese Menu oscilloscopes. And that the reason was to protect their overseas agents. It was only when he talked to the manufacturers that he found this out.

Oh sorry, this time when I ask, he promise english text on the scope face (international model) and I ask many times just this becouse neraly all what I find in china sellers they have chinese version. (just as his picture for Tekway show it is english labeled front panel) So, my information is now "old". (it was around 2-3 weeks ago I ask by chat and also by phone) Also I ask both, Hantek and Tekway.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 05, 2011, 12:06:15 pm
the pictures on aliexpress (Tekway) are from someone else, actually from mala-electronic Tekway review,
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg31659#msg31659 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg31659#msg31659)
so you should ask the seller about the real fron panael language before you buy.

You can even see on the picture below "Package List: all you see are what you buy!" a nice self-burned DVD with Germans
user manual - from pinsonne-electonic.de.

There is one thing you have to know, due the manufacturers restrictions these DSOs would have no manufacturer warranty outside china,
so if can live with that then aliexpress is right for you (even DOA warranty will be on your own cost). It have nothing to do with distributor
protection, is have only something to do with user satisfaction (if you add the express shipment fee to the aliexpress price and TAX you
will see there is alomost no difference in price - compared aliexpress Hantek 60Mhz and Elec3i price within EU is only 30EUR diff, but full warranty).




Btw, the first revision of Tekway DSOs have dark blue "Tekway logo" and gray model name - the sticker above display,

like this one : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg33560#msg33560 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg33560#msg33560)

-  most chinese sellers on Taobao will have the first revision.

the second revision (with not soldered jtag and i/o header but with heatsinks on ADCs and FPGA) have
black model name and light blue logo (like from mara-electronic review)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Bored@Work on March 05, 2011, 03:00:19 pm
Be very careful with buying via Alibaba, whatever their name of the day is (Aliexpress, Taobao, ...).

Recently the shit hit the fan as it turned out that at least 2300 fraudulent "gold sellers" (think organized crime) managed to setup shop there, and - this is the worst part - with the help of around 100 Alibaba employees. Alibaba management looked away for two years before they couldn't deny it any more and two managers were made the fall guys. Alibaba and the 2300 thieves ...

If you think Alibaba is squeaky-clean now, and they got rid of all their criminal employees and sellers, well, just Google "Alibaba fraud". It goes on and on and on.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: SoftwareSamurai on March 05, 2011, 03:37:35 pm
Okay, well, back to modding my DSO5102B via the USB Update Firmare...

More info for everyone: (Remember I've got the 2.06.2 firmware.)

Finally got it to work! Turns out the only hitch was that if you include a file named logotype.dis in the .up file, it will be checked for the correct "hantek_DSOxxxxx" label inside. But if you simply rename it to something else (I just renamed it l), it won't be checked. And like I've mentioned before, you only need the update file listed in the upend file. You can include other files without listing them in the upend file since it's all untarred en-masse. Then in the update file, you just need to do something like this:
Code: [Select]
[cmd] cp -f /usr/up/tekwayup_client/l  /logotype.dis
[cmd] chmod 766  /logotype.dis
And you're good to go.

Now as an interesting side-effect, once I've modding my DSO5102B to a DSO5202B, the Update Firmware now fails because it thinks the system is a DSO5202B but the update file is for a DSO5102B. Changing the [DST type] line in the update file doesn't appear to fix it. Hmmm...

Update: Ah, turns out the Update Firmware assumes that the update is for a DSO5102B if there's no logotype.dis file in the .up file! So if you just add a logotype.dis file with "hantek_DSO5202B" in it, it works. So it's possible to create 2 .up files: one for DSO5102B->DSO5202B and one for DSO5202B->DSO5102B. (The latter would be good to have if/when a newer firmware comes out!)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 05, 2011, 05:59:42 pm
Okay, well, back to modding my DSO5102B via the USB Update Firmare...

Finally got it to work! Turns out the only hitch was that if you include a file named logotype.dis in the .up file, it will be checked for the correct "hantek_DSOxxxxx" label inside. But if you simply rename it to something else (I just renamed it l), it won't be checked. And like I've mentioned before, you only need the update file listed in the upend file. You can include other files without listing them in the upend file since it's all untarred en-masse. Then in the update file, you just need to do something like this:

This is nice information. Even I like to do UART more.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 05, 2011, 06:33:41 pm
And about Serial Number of the machine.
I haven't figure out where they hide the SN information, definitly not sys.inf. But the 'i2c.log' is where they store the SN update or say i2c op log, that means it's stored in i2c programable chip. My 5102b was T 1G/200m xxxxxx in last OCT in i2c.log which is same on back lable. They factory change the SN to T 1g/100m xxxxxx in last Dec when they ship to distributor. Check yours you may lucky as mine.

Mine got from taiwan distributor(you can find contact information on hantek web site) as cash no invoice price NT$13400 that's about $450-460(This is about $50-60 higher than you can get from China by cash no tax price, but to me it's a trustable source). you can ask him if he can ship and how the price gos. It's 5102b(factory hacked from 5202b) english front panel and multi-lang 2.06.2.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 05, 2011, 08:13:48 pm
Allah help us ... all you have to know about how the firmware check is already in the fwdump tool, just read it.

In pirnciple the check is simple :

just ensure you update file is same as update~, sys.inf same as sys.inf~ and logotype.dis same as logotype.dis~ (talking now about files for your self-made firmware).

Then ensure that for these lines are inside in the update script:

[cmd] rm -f /logotype.dis
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/logotype.dis /logotype.dis
[cmd] rm /sys.inf
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/sys.inf /sys.inf
[cmd] rm -f /cur_acq.type
[cmd] touch ubdb.swi
[cmd] rm -f /dst1*
[cmd] touch /dst1202b
[cmd] chmod 777 /dst1202b
[cmd] chmod 777 /*
[cmd] chmod 777 *
[cmd] sync
[cmd] sync
[cmd] sync
[end]

So, if you wish to build own usb hack, all you have to do is to create own logotype.dis with whatever model number (same rule for Tekway or Hantek),
then you have to copy it to your self-build firmware as whatever file name (just don't use logotype.dis or logotype.dis~ names),
then you have to change the update script as following

[cmd] rm -f /logotype.dis
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/logotype.dis /logotype.dis
[cmd] rm /sys.inf
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/sys.inf /sys.inf
[cmd] rm -f /cur_acq.type
[cmd] touch ubdb.swi
[cmd] rm -f /dst1*
[cmd] touch /dst1202b
[cmd] chmod 777 /dst1202b
[cmd] chmod 777 /*
[cmd] chmod 777 *
[cmd] sync
[cmd] sync
[cmd] sync
[cmd] mv /usr/up/tekwayup_client/yourcustomlogotype.dis.file /logotype.dis
[cmd] sync
[end]

The fw currently didn't care/check other files, only what described in above. Of course the model inside logotype.dis and logotype.dis~
in your custom firmware MUST match your model (the one from what you will hack, so if you already hacked but wish to hack-back use the new model name) and the [cmd] touch /dst1202b and [cmd] chmod 777 /dst1202b lines must match destination model.

That's all. As said before, for each target model one custom firmware will be necessary (per destination model),
increasing the amount of necessary self-made usb hack files - which is bad for new users.
UART is still the best way, you can't destroy anything and you have full controll over the process.
Custom firmwares are always risky, if you forget to change for example permissions for copied files the DSO might not start,
for a beginner a disaster.


Regards serial number, yes it is stored in eeprom connected to s3c2440, it is easy to change it.
I don't tell you how, but i can tell you one thing - up to last 4 serial numbers and up to last 4 firmware updates are stored in NAND
memory - so whatever so do, be ensure you have a backup of your original NAND content (to be able to restore it i case of warranty).
Yes - the NAND backup contains serial number too, after it has been restored the DSO.exe will write it to EEPROM.




Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 05, 2011, 11:43:45 pm
it is stored in eeprom connected to s3c2440, it is easy to change it.

No worry, I figured out already, LCD ribbon block the view of that 4L64i. Just not necessary for now. I never touch an ARM, may be need learn a little about min2440 to know the whole system before do anything wild.

But another thing bug me know, while checking my boot log, looks my NAND has a bad block. Can you please confirm with me?

S3C24XX NAND Driver, (c) 2004 Simtec Electronics
s3c2440-nand: mapped registers at c4880000
s3c2440-nand: timing: Tacls 9ns, Twrph0 39ns, Twrph1 9ns
NAND device: Manufacturer ID: 0xec, Chip ID: 0x76 (Samsung NAND 64MiB 3,3V 8-bit)
NAND_ECC_NONE selected by board driver. This is not recommended !!
Scanning device for bad blocks
Bad eraseblock 1518 at 0x017b8000
Creating 3 MTD partitions on "NAND 64MiB 3,3V 8-bit":
0x00000000-0x00030000 : "bootloader"
0x00050000-0x00250000 : "kernel"
0x00250000-0x03ffc000 : "root"

..........

NET: Registered protocol family 1
NET: Registered protocol family 17
yaffs: dev is 32505858 name is "mtdblock2"
yaffs: Attempting MTD mount on 31.2, "mtdblock2"
block 1371 is bad
VFS: Mounted root (yaffs filesystem).
Mounted devfs on /dev


Even looks doesn't make any trouble with the DSO, I think I need make a JTAG for full backup really soon.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 06, 2011, 12:22:29 am
But another thing bug me know, while checking my boot log, looks my NAND has a bad block. Can you please confirm with me?
...
Even looks doesn't make any trouble with the DSO, I think I need make a JTAG for full backup really soon.

Bad blocks are typical for NAND memory (you will always find some with bad blocks in a full tray of brand new NANDs)
the bootloader and then OS YAFFS driver can handle this (normally).

Backup is always good idea, as long you have no ARM JTAG just use the fwdump v3, it will save
bootloader, root and kernel - that's all you evt. need later.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 06, 2011, 12:34:55 am
Backup is always good idea, as long you have no ARM JTAG just use the fwdump v3, it will save
bootloader, root and kernel - that's all you evt. need later.

Thanks, and I did a v3 backup when you post it, just don't know what are included. I'll make a arm jtag tonight and play around it. I have some hynix 64MBx8bit NAND in hand, will check if I can replace it directly.  

Update: yes it'll works, H-jatag has driver too.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 06, 2011, 02:04:19 am
Update: yes it'll works, H-jatag has driver too.

you will need OOB H-JTAG driver to save/restore OOB blocks too!

you can find NAND-OOB drivers for H-JTAG here

http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/163836 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/163836)

The s3c2440 ARM need to be initialized, the right one init is already included in H-JTAG software, just
load in H-Flasher the ..\HFC Examples\S3C2440+K9F1208.hfc
You can disable flash id check too if H-Flasher don't like Hynix with NAND OOB drivers (or change the driver, whcih is simple)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 06, 2011, 03:30:10 am
you will need OOB H-JTAG driver to save/restore OOB blocks too!
you can find NAND-OOB drivers for H-JTAG here
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/163836 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/163836)
The s3c2440 ARM need to be initialized, the right one init is already included in H-JTAG software, just
load in H-Flasher the ..\HFC Examples\S3C2440+K9F1208.hfc
You can disable flash id check too if H-Flasher don't like Hynix with NAND OOB drivers (or change the driver, whcih is simple)

Thanks, I'm reading manual for mini2440 and h-jtag now. looks H-flasher v1.1 can flash s3c2440+k9f1208 and s3c2440+hy27us08121a(which I have now).

Update: After research about NAND bad blocks and OOB, I would not bother replace the chip for now, as most factory will ship NAND flash Chip up to 80 bad blocks for lower price. I checked 1/3 of my stocks, only 1/4 no bad blocks, 1-3 bad blocks are most, very few over 10.  Anyway, I made my LPT-jtag, and order one USB-JTAG, will play it little bit later.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: mirgo on March 06, 2011, 06:16:17 pm
Tekway

USD 580 and free shipping in this store in mainland China: Store http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788 (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788)

(I have also talk in phone with this store man "Mr Pioneer Huang" But I did not buy becouse I find more economy solution (not only one scope))

Scope in this store http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html)


I think you can securely order at this seller. I already bought five items from him in the last 3 month. Fast shippment and good communication (english). I also talked to him regarding the chinese frontpanel - He will prepare a new english frontpanel that will be sold with the scopes in the near future. So if you want to mod anyway and don't care about guaranty, just order there...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on March 06, 2011, 09:39:39 pm
hi Mirgo,
Ni shi zhong guo ren ba ? ;D ( ::) Are you chinese ?  ;))
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 07, 2011, 02:39:57 am
Thanks all for your help,

Is there any advantage in using a Hantek DSO5102B over a DSO5062B or a DSO5062C (60MHz) when hacking to a DSO5202B (200MHz). Other than the price.

I have now read all the posts in this thread. I don't remember seeing an answer to this question, sorry if there was.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 07, 2011, 02:41:34 am
two things?

one, hope they change on/off switch to top, not in front. As this is light weight DSO, need hold the body to push the switch.

second, mini2440 chinese manual has much more information than english.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 07, 2011, 02:58:11 am

Is there any advantage in using a Hantek DSO5102B over a DSO5062B or a DSO5062C (60MHz) when hacking to a DSO5202B (200MHz). Other than the price.


don't count 5062C in, that one will not work or unknow now, it's 500M sa/s, instead 1G.

The 5062b and 5102b basicly same, just different probes, 60Mhz and 100Mhz(good to 150Mhz). you may not need buy new probes for 200Mhz if you buy 5102b.

And 5062b is less available on the market, even hard to find sometime.

If you don't intend to change the input part resistors, 5102b is cal to 200mhz more closer than 5062b, and not absolutely necessary to do so. And if you are lucky as me, you may get one with 200mhz cal already.

other than these, no big diff.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 07, 2011, 04:09:22 am
Thanks project,

Which model has the power switch on the top ???, I didn't know that Hantek made one with the switch on the top. That wouldn't bother me having the switch on the front, I can just put the other hand on the top of the oscilloscope to stop it moving. but that's a good point.

I was thinking more on the end performance once it has been hacked/converted into a 200MHz oscilloscope.

Interesting, the Chinese manual having more information. Wish I could speak Chinese, I would then be able to read it. Maybe someone will translate it and post it here.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 07, 2011, 05:19:04 am
Thanks project,

(1) C Model - OK I won't be getting that model.

(2) Probes - Think I will purchase proper 200MHz probes to ensure that I get maximum bandwidth. Probes are not expensive these days. I can always use the old probes on my old 50MHz Tecktrinic 547 valve oscilloscope. Did you know the Tecktronic was the same price as a new car when purchased many years ago.

(3) Input Resistors - Changing SMD components is not a problem for me.
For best performance: Is it that the input resistors on the DSO5062B should be changed; In the DSO5102B it is best if they are changed. Looks like I've missed the messages with regard to this. Do you know what the message numbers are for this.

(4) Question - The DSO5062B with the input resistors changed and with the hack to change it to 200MHz. Is the performance much the same as if a DSO5102B with input resistors changed and hacked to 200MHz.

(5) Not sure what you mean when you say "cal ready" would you please explain this a bit more.

Thanks for your help.

By The Way, Tinhead, thanks for all the work that you have put in for us, you must have spent many hours doing this.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: nukie on March 07, 2011, 11:29:41 am
Tekway


USD 580 and free shipping in this store in mainland China: Store http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788 (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788)


(I have also talk in phone with this store man "Mr Pioneer Huang" But I did not buy becouse I find more economy solution (not only one scope))

Scope in this store http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html)


In Ali you can also chat with seller and this seller also answer phone if you want check for security. (you ask his phone if you need)
Also you can buy with safe system (seller get money after you get scope - but you send money first...)
This seller write quite good english.

And also you can select with same price Hantek or Tekway (100MHz)
MOQ = 1pcs
price USD580
Shipping = Free by DHL (and I think also to Australia)

Power cord... normal power plug in scope end ... just as nearly all equipment you can buy compatible power cable in your country.
China normal electric is 50Hz 220 - 230Vac. (only what chance is this cable wall end, scope end is always same)

With same price my own opinion is "buy Tekway" mut this is only my opinion.

Also you can use PayPal
There is also Escrow (littlebit more safety) system between you and seller.



Now I hope I posted correctly, this is not an advertisement I don't work for anyone, and hello all this is my first post I am from Melbourne, Australia. Posting my positive experience of sourcing the Tekway from its country of origin.

I want to let you guys know that Mr Pioneer Huang is a genuine and honest seller. He is a MCU programmer himself. I chat with him numerous times regarding the Tekway DSO. He knows his stuff and know them well. He's not like someone who sells some teddy bear, iphone bumper and random items. Today I received my oscilloscope from Mr Huang, and I have also left positive feedback on his aliexpress account. He told me in advance that the scope panel is in Chinese but I couldn't care less as the buttons are in English. The panel can be easily peeled off and I can print one with my printer.

The Tekway arrived within a few days to Australia. Due to his low profit margins(as I understand), Mr Huang had to keep the package as small as possible so he could make some money from the sale. I don't mind as long as it arrive in working condition, I am glad to help him out. This is what I received today from DHL-> Australia Post.


(http://i51.tinypic.com/2eggxm8.jpg)
Seems reasonable condition. No major ding.

(http://i56.tinypic.com/2h2jl82.jpg)
Standard foam protection.

(http://i51.tinypic.com/24vuna8.jpg)
Tekway branded probes, probably a rebranded probe.

(http://i55.tinypic.com/11vig5t.jpg)
Warranty card(hopefully I don't need it), items check list and software on a stupid small mini 3" CD which some slot-in drives wont be able to read :( It will probably end up in the bin when you can always download the latest from the interweb. I know this sounds a bit ignorant because not everyone has internet but if you wish to include software, please at least supply in a standard disc.

(http://i54.tinypic.com/a4msgm.jpg)
Good News! No mechanical damage visible. I have seen a lot worse handled package.

(http://i54.tinypic.com/2ytz49k.jpg)
For the first time I am happy & excited to see a 3 pin Australian IEC plug. Not that I am short of them( I believe everyone on this forum has plenty lying around) but you can actually tell that the seller did the right thing!

(http://i52.tinypic.com/f022rd.jpg)
See what I mean? English buttons plus Chinese panel. Maybe someone here with an English panel could scan and upload so that we could print it out? Or even better, learn Chinese, I don't think it's that hard you only need to memorize the top 9 or so buttons the rest are in common positions.

(http://i56.tinypic.com/359wf1t.jpg)
Sweet 7" 800x480! Unfortunately, my phone camera don't have the dynamic range to capture the true beauty of the display.

(http://i56.tinypic.com/2804ny9.jpg)
As mention before, this unit has the extra tiny heatsink mounted on 4 of the IC chips, above and underside of the PCB. It has no fan. I haven't done much to the insides yet, I might measure the max temperatures of the PSU area when I am free.

Okay now I need to go figure out how to change the chinese menu/firmware to English. Or take up Chinese electronics class  :P
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 07, 2011, 11:38:18 am
Actually both Hantek and Tekway are fair enough to send what in stock, so if distributor did ordered 10 x 100MHz and they have only 6 ready but some 200MHz there they will "re-label" these 200MHz models as 100MHz and send it out.
So very often you will get better than ordered, of course with software reduced bw but electrically exact the same as higher modell.

The hardware differences between models (resistors) are very small:
Input resistors (channels and ext trigger)

    200MHz - 22R 0.1%
    100MHz - 33R 0.1%
     60MHz  - 33R 0.1%

Compensation resistors (channels only)

    200MHz - 10R 0.1%
    100MHz - 12R 0.1%
     60MHz  - 12R 0.1%


OpAmp resistors (4 x per channel)

    200MHz - 280R 0.1%
    100MHz - 301R 0.1%
     60MHz  - 365R 0.1%

OpAmp arrays (2 x per channel)

    200MHz - 33R 1%
    100MHz - 39R 1%
     60MHz  - 47R 1%

Trigger stage

    200MHz - 82R 0.1%
    100MHz - 100R 0.1%
     60MHz  - 100R 0.1%

After "200MHz hack" the bandwidth depends on these resistor a bit (and of course a little bit the waveform, see picture below),
true 200MHz hardware is good up to (-3db) ~220MHz, 100MHz hardware up to 200MHz and 60MHz hardware up to ~185MHz.

Of course you can replace them, but only if you have good equipment to recalibrate the compensation
(actually most ppl having good equipment would buy directly the right one model and save time/money indirect).
Most ppl i know can live with ~185MHz (for org. 60MHz models) and 200MHz (org. 100MHZ models)
bandwidth and bit less trigger sensivity arroung 200MHz freq - just because they not extended the bw to measure the amplitude
exact for 195 or 210MHz signals but to measure more accuracte up to 100MHz signals.

Finally it is your choice (don't forget the probe price too).

Attached pics:
- 200MHz vs 100MHz hardware signal respond/waveform compare (blue-200MHz model, white 100MHz model)
- red marked the different resistors



Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 07, 2011, 11:47:32 am
Mr Huang had to keep the package as small as possible so he could make some money from the sale. I don't mind as long as it arrive in working condition,
yeah, normally there is another one a bit bigger paper box arround the small one, but you ruight as long i did arrived healthy who cares.

See what I mean? English buttons plus Chinese panel. Maybe someone here with an English panel could scan and upload so that we could print it out? Or even better, learn Chinese, I don't think it's that hard you only need to memorize the top 9 or so buttons the rest are in common positions.

http://www.tekwayins.net/pic/1202B.jpg (http://www.tekwayins.net/pic/1202B.jpg)

if not sufficient i can scan my Tekway by chance.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 07, 2011, 11:54:58 am
Hantek DSO5062C

Hey Pascal,

as you have some of these Hantek 500MSs models in stock, any chance to make a picture of the PCB ?
It would be interessting to see what's inside, i did noticed there are some diffs but never had a chance to make a picture of PCB.


@ALL
For most beginners a 500MSs would be good enough anyway, for sure it can't be hacked to 200MHz,
but 60MHz (if someone manage to buy them somewhere, but as i remember Hantek wasn't really interessted to sell them - however Tekway is selling them as DST4062B) can be "extended" to 100MHz bw.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 07, 2011, 11:59:44 am
Okay now I need to go figure out how to change the chinese menu/firmware to English. Or take up Chinese electronics class  :P

tell me the firmware version, click on red marked button and then F1

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: nukie on March 07, 2011, 12:20:56 pm
I think the firmware version is the second line  ??? 2.05.0(100305.0)


Okay now I need to go figure out how to change the chinese menu/firmware to English. Or take up Chinese electronics class  :P

tell me the firmware version, click on red marked button and then F1


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 07, 2011, 12:49:19 pm
I think the firmware version is the second line  ??? 2.05.0(100305.0)


cool (since no USB hack protection), then just do following :

backup the firmware:
download this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1571.0;attach=4899 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1571.0;attach=4899)

unzip the *.up file to empty USB stick, insert the stick in fromt usb port, wait 4 sec.,
click utility button (that was the red marked in attached picture),
click F2, click F5 (or whatever will be displayed, i believe the old fw is asking for F6) to confirm.

The backup can take up to 5 minutes.

After it is ready remove the usb stick, reboot DSO and move everything from usb stick to whatever
folder on your PC, you might need it later.


then (if you wish) hack it to 200MHz

download this :

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1571.0;attach=4577 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1571.0;attach=4577)

again, unzip the *.up file and do firmware update - this will hack your DSO to 200MHz bw.


then download attached *.up file (THIS IS ONLY FOR TEKWAY DST1202B, don't use it on other DSO models),
that's the latest firmware - and do again firmware update

After all you can change the language in utility, F6, F2 (to switch language).

If you don't wish to hack but need the latest Tekway firmware for your DSO let me know.

EDIT: and yeah, post the results .. it seems that someone else tried this few days ago but never said if it worked :P Maybe just killed the DSO, heh.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: nukie on March 07, 2011, 01:08:21 pm
Hello tinhead,

Thank you for the 200Mhz firmware english hack but I am not ready to alter the Mhz of my scope yet because I am still 'evaluating' the unit. I will save the instructions you posted for future reference, I am sure 200Mhz will be useful.

I see you have mention it's for Tekway DST1202B, it should be fine with DST1102B right?
If you need someone as a guinea pig, I don't mind bringing it up to 200Mhz temporary to validate your instructions, I will report back in 8 hours time zZZ.

I sent PM regarding the 100Mhz firmware. Thank you so much for your contributions.

Vincent.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 07, 2011, 01:30:32 pm
but I am not ready to alter the Mhz of my scope yet because I am still 'evaluating' the unit.

buuuhhhh ! :)

sure, it is always user choice. Attached the official 2.6.3 for Tekway DST1102B,
so you can update your scope to latest vfw version and add english language.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 07, 2011, 02:12:32 pm
Tinhead, thanks for the resistor change information. Your attached trace photo shows the difference.

Was thinking that it maybe easier to add parallel resistors instead of replacing resistors to get the 200MHz resistor values. Lucky in that the 200MHz values are all lower than the values for 100MHz or 60MHz.

Input resistors (channels and ext trigger)

    200MHz - 22R 0.1%
    100MHz - 33R 0.1% Parallel with 66R 0.1%
     60MHz  - 33R 0.1% Parallel with 66R 0.1%

Compensation resistors (channels only)

    200MHz - 10R 0.1%
    100MHz - 12R 0.1% Parallel with 60R 0.1%
     60MHz  - 12R 0.1% Parallel with 60R 0.1%


OpAmp resistors (4 x per channel)

    200MHz - 280R 0.1%
    100MHz - 301R 0.1% Parallel with 4K 0.1%
     60MHz  - 365R 0.1% Parallel with 1.2K 0.1%

OpAmp arrays (2 x per channel)

    200MHz - 33R 1%
    100MHz - 39R 1% Parallel with 215R 1%
     60MHz  - 47R 1% Parallel with 111R 1%

Trigger stage

    200MHz - 82R 0.1%
    100MHz - 100R 0.1% Parallel with 455R 0.1%
     60MHz  - 100R 0.1% Parallel with 455R 0.1%

Problem is where can you purchase these resistor values in 0.1% and 1%? Do you know what physical size the SMD resistors are.

Tinhead, what equipment do you need to calibrate the oscilloscope when the above resistors have been changed. What is the procedure. Would the normal oscilloscope push button calibration do the job? I don't know much about what the calibration is other than you only have the power cable connected to calibrate.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 07, 2011, 02:50:44 pm
Just arrived:

System status shows:

model: DSO5102B
serial T1G/008xxxxxx
soft version: 2.06.3 (110118.0)
hard version: 0x555583e8

First touch... better than expected. I know it is better than Rigol but... I did not expect so much. (yes price is different and it is maybe not very clever compare these.)



Example -3dB point well over 170MHz.. if reference is 1MHz and level 300mVp-p.  (yes I need later check my test lab accuracy.. maybe my HP old workhorse signal gen need careful "flatness calibration" over frequency band 100k to 2G .. I do not trust now...)  it looks like there (in hantek oscilloscope analog front end) is littlebit "M" shape freq response and it makes some special corner shape with fast rising pulse edge.. but... not bad.. but all this need now lot of work for tests.

Edit

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 07, 2011, 03:15:53 pm
to add parallel resistors instead of replacing resistors to get the 200MHz resistor values. Problem is where can you purchase these resistor values in 0.1% and 1%?

bad idea, this will increase the caapacitance.

Do you know what physical size the SMD resistors are.
mouser is haveing alle of them,
22.1R 0.1% or 22R 1% in 0603
280R 0.1% in 0603
10R 0.1% in 0603
82R 1% or 82.5R 0.1% in 0603
33R x 4 1% array in 1206


what equipment do you need to calibrate the oscilloscope when the above resistors have been changed. What is the procedure. Would the normal oscilloscope push button calibration do the job? I don't know much about what the calibration is other than you only have the power cable connected to calibrate.

the one you don't have (400MHz analog or DSO to compare results, 1kHz to 250MHz square/sinus generator, good set of RG316 cables, active and passive probes) but at least a 1kHz and 10kHz signal generator with stable amplitude, true rms dmm to measure the amplitude
and some luck.

The compensation can be changed by the cap value (red marked), the measured amplitude must match the real signal amplitude (square and sinus),
you will of course have to wait at leat 30mins before the DSO would be warm enough and after each step (1 and 10kHz signal) do self-calibration
and compare results again.

Still, i do not recommend to play with compensation without knowledge about and good equipment. For sure you might have luck
and no compensation will be necessary, but i would not bet on that.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 07, 2011, 03:24:08 pm
Just arrived:

welcome in club!

but all this need now lot of work for tests.

true, you always very sceptic so you will definitely test 5x :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: SoftwareSamurai on March 07, 2011, 03:44:38 pm
Attached the official 2.6.3 for Tekway DST1102B, so you can update your scope to latest vfw version and add english language.

(Forgive me if you've already answered these before.)

Q1. Can I load v2.06.3 onto my Hantek 5102B?
Q2. What's the improvements in v2.06.3 from v2.06.2? (i.e. Is it worth upgrading?)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 07, 2011, 03:48:01 pm

true, you always very sceptic so you will definitely test 5x :)

Yes, first I need check my calibration generators and sinewave generators calibration..

5x is not enough.

If test full specs temp range, humidity range, pressure range it need more... and also repeating so that can make some opinion about random variations... haha. (yes I do not...)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 07, 2011, 03:51:45 pm
Q1. Can I load v2.06.3 onto my Hantek 5102B?
no, you can't.
Once again, because of the hack protection the firmware is now per model, so each manufacturer and each model
firmwares are different (well the update scripts, if you decryt it and copy manally the DSO.exe and other evt. changed files then it will works for you on any DSO)

Q2. What's the improvements in v2.06.3 from v2.06.2? (i.e. Is it worth upgrading?)

more measurment pre-setups, pass/fail, digital filters, nice recording option and other things, but also some new bugs :)
They should be fixed very soon so maybe is a good idea to wait fir the new fw.

I did posted these Tekway fw's just because of the chinese fw version of "nukie's" DSO.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 07, 2011, 03:54:27 pm
5x is not enough.

If test full specs temp range, humidity range, pressure range it need more... and also repeating so that can make some opinion about random variations... haha. (yes I do not...)

hehe to be very honest i do check each every function and setting after each fw upgrade, HanTekway is doing great job improving
things but sometimes they creating more bugs than improvements :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: gileadlin on March 07, 2011, 04:24:39 pm
hi ,tinhead'
would you make a firmware for tekway1062B(version 2.06) to hack it to 200MHz?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 07, 2011, 05:00:42 pm
hi ,tinhead'
would you make a firmware for tekway1062B(version 2.06) to hack it to 200MHz?

no, why i should ? Read the whole thread and you will learn how to hack or create own hack.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: mirgo on March 07, 2011, 06:11:03 pm
hi Mirgo,
Ni shi zhong guo ren ba ? ;D ( ::) Are you chinese ?  ;))

No sorry, I'm from germany and I did not register just to advertise for the chinese shop. I've been following this topic for some weeks now and I just wanted to give my advice for anybody that is afraid of ordering from china. I know you sell the hanteks from france too, but anybody may select his/her prefered source and there are trustworthy sources in china too (not all of them, but they exist).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: PsI-On on March 07, 2011, 07:05:21 pm
I scanned the Chinese panel and replaced the characters with English.

I haven't tried it on for size yet, but it looks close!

-P
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 07, 2011, 07:31:33 pm
yeah, looks like my org. panel (except 1 "kHz" which is on your version khz and Tekway org. version KHZ)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: bilko on March 07, 2011, 08:28:24 pm
I scanned the Chinese panel and replaced the characters with English.

I haven't tried it on for size yet, but it looks close!

-P



It's very good but missed out 'PROBE CHECK' decal

Can you get these made in the same material as the original ?

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: PsI-On on March 07, 2011, 09:55:06 pm
Original Panel changed....

tinhead - "Khz" to "KHZ"
yachtronics - added "PROBE CHECK"

I was thinking you could use 'Water-Slide Decal Paper' to make a new front panel, I haven't done this myself so I'm not sure if it'll work!

-P
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: nukie on March 08, 2011, 12:49:06 am
This is my Tekway DST1102B if anyone's interested

My External trigger measures 22R vs the 33R channel input resistors

*Copy from tinhead post, updated with my scope hardware details*

Input resistors (channels and ext trigger)
    100MHz - 33R 0.1% channels
    100MHz - 22R ext trigger

Compensation resistors (channels only)
    100MHz - 12R 0.1%

OpAmp resistors (4 x per channel)
    100MHz - 301R 0.1%

OpAmp arrays (2 x per channel)
    100MHz - 39R 1%

Trigger stage
    100MHz - 100R 1%
    100MHz - 466.5R !!!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 08, 2011, 01:16:32 am
Trigger stage
    100MHz - 466.5R !!!


maybe you on wrong place? I mean this one (red marked) ...

Btw, Tekway is as always clean soldered, i wish Hantek will learn to soldr too ... almost every Hantek was not that clean.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: nukie on March 08, 2011, 01:48:19 am
Sorry, I measured again it's 100R. All good!

Tips for all users, it's good to connect the dso to a UPS battery backup to prevent mains interruption during firmware upgrades.

For those who are interested in recapping the unit, here's the list of caps

SMPS (13)
C6 - 100uF 400v
C8 - 47uF 50v
C11 - 1000uF 16v
C14 - 1000uF 16v
C15 - 22uF 16v
C17 - 2200uF 16v
C18 - 1000uF 25v
C19 - 3300uF 10v
C20 - 1000uF 16v
C22 - 330uF 6.3v
C23 - 1000uF 16v
C25 - 470uF 25v
C36 - 100uF 35v

Main PCB (16)
C512 - 220uF 16v
C514 - 220uF 16v
C636 - 220uF 16v
C675 - 1000uF 10v
C676 - 220uF 16v
C715 - 220uF 16v
C912 - 220uF 16v
C913 - 1000uF 10v
C934 - 220uF 16v
C935 - 1000uF 10v
C936 - 220uF 16v
C942 - 100uF 35v
C943 - 470uF 25v
C944 - 1000uF 10v
C948 - 1000uF 10v
C949 - 1000uF 10v
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 08, 2011, 01:55:10 am
Sorry, I measured again it's 100R. All good!

:)

you don't have to measure, just read what on the resistor, they are EIA code marked:

http://talkingelectronics.com/contents/articles/109/1/Resistors---EIA-markings/Page1.html (http://talkingelectronics.com/contents/articles/109/1/Resistors---EIA-markings/Page1.html)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 08, 2011, 03:17:39 am
Btw, Tekway is as always clean soldered, i wish Hantek will learn to soldr too ... almost every Hantek was not that clean.

Mine looks fine, but not proper washed, still have un-washed rosin/flux on board, I did wash by myself. I believe all boards are made by Tekway. Slightly diff quality, guess due to diff batch and little adjustment of production line(wave soldering). Hantek's 5000B series Just OEM by tekway, Hantek load custom firmware only. This is quite normal in China now.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 08, 2011, 06:24:34 am
I scanned the Chinese panel and replaced the characters with English.


Hi PsI-On,

that a good job you did on the English front panel. I may need it, but I haven't decided where I'll purchase my oscilloscope from, I'm waiting for some prices before I choose.

A great Front panel, thanks.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 08, 2011, 11:22:46 am
I scanned the Chinese panel and replaced the characters with English.


I've made some great front panel labels from A4 size stick on labels:

http://www.kalex.net.au/timesaver-price-list (http://www.kalex.net.au/timesaver-price-list)

Page 15: C3897/A4 10 SHEETS SILVER LABEL $27.50

I used a colour laser printer and stick on clear book covering to protect the print. Kalex also have a can of spray on protection. The silver label colour is simular to the colour of aluminium. Looks great.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 08, 2011, 05:00:17 pm
Tekway/Hantek doing YouScope demo ...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2730.0 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2730.0)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on March 08, 2011, 05:55:30 pm
Tekway/Hantek doing YouScope demo ...
Are you a magician?
I want this demo too!   ;D
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 08, 2011, 06:32:39 pm
Tekway/Hantek doing YouScope demo ...
Are you a magician?
I want this demo too!   ;D

http://www.eevblog.com/2011/03/08/eevblog-153-youscope-demo-on-a-digital-scope/ (http://www.eevblog.com/2011/03/08/eevblog-153-youscope-demo-on-a-digital-scope/)

so just dw the wav and let's play left+right channels to ch1+ch2 in XY mode. Is not really good, but still better as Rigol.
I haven't tested with persistency on, so it could be even better setup.

The XY mode on HanTekway isn't really good, especially noice level - so there is definitely room for improvement.
 
Bingo, with 40kpts memory settings is much better, no dropped frames. The 4kpts as in my video was not enough.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 08, 2011, 09:51:28 pm
what equipment do you need to calibrate the oscilloscope when the above resistors have been changed. What is the procedure. Would the normal oscilloscope push button calibration do the job? I don't know much about what the calibration is other than you only have the power cable connected to calibrate.

but at least a 1kHz and 10kHz signal generator with stable amplitude, true rms dmm to measure the amplitude
and some luck.

The compensation can be changed by the cap value (red marked), the measured amplitude must match the real signal amplitude (square and sinus),
you will of course have to wait at leat 30mins before the DSO would be warm enough and after each step (1 and 10kHz signal) do self-calibration
and compare results again.

Still, i do not recommend to play with compensation without knowledge about and good equipment. For sure you might have luck
and no compensation will be necessary, but i would not bet on that.
[/quote]
Hi Tinhead,
Question: For compensation you refer to 3 components. Do you have to change all 3 components or you only have to adjust the trim capacitor?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 09, 2011, 01:12:14 am
Question: For compensation you refer to 3 components. Do you have to change all 3 components or you only have to adjust the trim capacitor?

if you replace parts in input circuit (or sometimes just solder around), you will have to adjust the compensation (yes, with the trim cap).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 09, 2011, 09:18:09 am
tinhead:

Do you have any kind of FW bug list for model: DSO5102B, FW: 2.06.3 (110118.0)?

I have find some "fatal" bug.

If use single shot. After shot if fast turn horizontal time (for "zooming" captured signal in main window) scope system crash... random to whole display and after this system do not make anything what ever button press, excl power off. (only power off reset scope and it returns of course normal)

small cosmetic bug

If use fast horizontal and then shut menu off... left and specially right side display show some random signal. (around half div horizontal... thes area signal looks random)

if use voltage cursors, fast horizontal speed... move cursor(s) vertically ... it do not reset "old" cursor pixels and they stay on the display.. (as long as whole display refresh)

In some case scope UI go extremely slow... signal is updating but all knobs react extremely slowly, even default setup react after many seconds or more... I have not yet find what special all settings is need to show this bug but more than 5 times I have find this situation.

If we have bug list... I think factory repair these bugs more fast.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 09, 2011, 09:47:11 am
I have finally ordered a Tekway DST1102B 100MHz oscilloscope from Pioneer.

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html#tabbed-pane (http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html#tabbed-pane)

I will let you all know how this purchase go, I don't anticipate any problems as Pioneer has at this time a 100% positive feedback, refer to the above link :).

When I receive the Tekway I'll upgrade it to a English front panel and Tinhead's firmware to obtain a English Menu display.

Later, I'm going to consider changing the resistors in the channel amplifiers, Trigger section ETC.

Thanks all for your feedback and help.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: bilko on March 09, 2011, 12:11:31 pm
I have finally ordered a Tekway DST1102B 100MHz oscilloscope from Pioneer.

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html#tabbed-pane (http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html#tabbed-pane)

I will let you all know how this purchase go, I don't anticipate any problems as Pioneer has at this time a 100% positive feedback, refer to the above link :).



I ordered a Tekway DST1102B from Pioneer too. Ordered on the 7th, now on its way. He's a good guy, an engineer, not a box shifter. He know what he's talking about so I have every confidence. Will let you know when the scope arrives. Thanks everyone for your help.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on March 09, 2011, 12:12:41 pm
My God, I had visited this Aliexpress website  :o . You can see how no care is made for packaging and handle electronics accessories like probes.
If people only concentrate the price, well why not proposing everything like a kit with components, case, bill of materials and serigraphy masks for each country!
Then people arrange by themselves (soldering, cleaning, testing) and everything is ok. Ok, men, we will give you a 300.00 EUR oscilloscope kit, and wish you good luck ! ;D Just this policy is not ours: we change bad boxes, change power cord with 2.50m (Hantek/tekway is 1.50m, a bit short for convenience), change CD small pocket when this one is damaged. Electronics should be handled with care, not like trash...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: bilko on March 09, 2011, 12:36:14 pm
My God, I had visited this Aliexpress website  :o . You can see how no care is made for packaging and handle electronics accessories like probes.
If people only concentrate the price, well why not proposing everything like a kit with components, case, bill of materials and serigraphy masks for each country!
Then people arrange by themselves (soldering, cleaning, testing) and everything is ok. Ok, men, we will give you a 300.00 EUR oscilloscope kit, and wish you good luck ! ;D Just this policy is not ours: we change bad boxes, change power cord with 2.50m (Hantek/tekway is 1.50m, a bit short for convenience), change CD small pocket when this one is damaged. Electronics should be handled with care, not like trash...


Pascal,
We will comment when we receive the goods, we don't see pictures of your setup. You don't have something to hide here do you ? Your equipment came from China and could well have been built in a chicken shed before you received it. Lets wait and see, if your comments are justified I am sure Aliexpress customers will not be afraid to reveal the facts.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 09, 2011, 01:55:53 pm
If people only concentrate the price, well why not proposing everything like a kit with components, case,
bill of materials and serigraphy masks for each country!

Pascal,

there will be always people looking for cheaper than cheap. They don't care about DOA warranty,
don't care about regular warranty, don't care about packaging - only price counts.
Is it right ? Well, depends - but honestly i prefer to have at least DOA warranty on no costs,
which is not given if i buy from any of those "cheap-sellers". Sure, such seller can say
"i will checked before i send out, so no DOA 100%", but that's the half of the story.

This is electronic equipment, it can always fail, especially BGA parts might works for few days and then stop,
and this is common for all products, not only chinese (just see Dave's 12k USD Agilent fail issue).
Next example was a guy from Ukraina, he ordered once - got DOA, ordered next one - broken after few days.
For sure maye he was just stupid, but to be very honest the seller and Tekway confirmed his story,
so shit happens sometimes. Luckily for him the seller was fair enough ...

As you said , you have the lowest price for Hantek in Europe - and that's fine.
You giving full no-DOA warranty (on no costs) and the regular 3yrs warranty
- knowing that many of your customers will manipulate these DSOs - and that's more than fair.

So why still some ppl think they have to buy in china instead of from Elec3i ?

- because they can't pay more than whatever
- because they loves to play russian roulette
- because they think they need to do something "cool", like russian roulette purchase


We can't change "cool" guys, and can't change "russian roulette players"
and can't just add some "candys" for price-driven people - so just don't care about.



Btw, did you saw my question ?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg36747#msg36747 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg36747#msg36747)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 09, 2011, 02:26:09 pm
It must also remember that many countries ask VAT (and also may ask duties). Inside EU this is simple. No customs office on the "inside" borders. (exept some special goods, example cars etc, harmonization is not yet fully ready.)

But if someone buy (example to Australia) from EU. No any matter if Elec3i have pay (VAT) as he import it from China to France. (no need pay any customs duties becouse it is in EY TARIC codes free from customs but import VAT need pay for total.
But now if he send it to Australia  there is Australian customs office.. there buyer need pay TAX (VAT) agen.
This price is ok in EU. (USD 580 with free shipping to Aus is lot of better price. around 430Eur + VAT  if compare (559 Eur + shipping) + VAT.  If (some country) have VAT 25%  it means 430 * 1,25 = ~540 (eur) and if 559 + ship is example 590 then 590 * 1,25 = ~740 eur. Difference is markable. (this is not accurate but here you find some difference)

Also, now they are talking about Tekway NOT Hantek. They are not exactly same but overall specs and functions are same. Example in China Tekway is lot of better name as hantek. (yes inside scope PC read Tekway in Hantek but with somecomponents may be diff becouse there are also two separate production lines... separate factories. Also you may be know what is difference in  prices. (I'm surpriced Aliexpress seller can sell both with same price. How it is possible... this I do not want speculate. (sky is high and caesar is far away)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: bilko on March 09, 2011, 03:12:25 pm
If you are in Europe and want Hantek, I agree why not buy from elec3i. For those outside of Europe, it doesn't make that much sense. If you pay with paypal you have some protection from DOA regardless. You still have to send the unit back at your own expense, either to France or to China. The lower price from China incurs less import duty too. So yes there is a price incentive, also the warranty side is only really effective in Europe if you buy from Europe. The quality of the scopes is variable, you are not guaranteed a better scope just because it was shipped to Europe first.
Hantek's focus is for the export market, whilst Tekway are intended for the internal Chinese market. Hence you will find very few if any Hantek scopes with the Chinese keyboard overlay.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on March 09, 2011, 03:37:18 pm
OK, OK, I don't want to lit the fire, and I really wish everything you buy is OK.
Hantek makes its best to give good quality and service. ;D and free parts for quick maintenance.
I don't really know Aliexpress and people behind them. But what I know is Hantek staff and development. tools and production as I visited them many times.
My staff and cooperation team are half chinese too, we don't criticize but we are aware of possible problems because we have faced them sometimes.
OK, from now I stop posting for this topic. It is better we concentrate improving informations of the products...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 09, 2011, 09:49:41 pm
My God, I had visited this Aliexpress website  :o . You can see how no care is made for packaging and handle electronics accessories like probes.
If people only concentrate the price, well why not proposing everything like a kit with components, case, bill of materials and serigraphy masks for each country!
Then people arrange by themselves (soldering, cleaning, testing) and everything is ok. Ok, men, we will give you a 300.00 EUR oscilloscope kit, and wish you good luck ! ;D Just this policy is not ours: we change bad boxes, change power cord with 2.50m (Hantek/tekway is 1.50m, a bit short for convenience), change CD small pocket when this one is damaged. Electronics should be handled with care, not like trash...


Hi Pascal,

Question: do you give a three year warranty if we change the resistors and firmware in the oscilloscope?

Who pays for warranty postage? We pay to France and you pay back to us, or we pay both ways, or you pay both ways?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 09, 2011, 10:23:42 pm
Hi Pascal,

Question: do you give a three year warranty if we change the resistors and firmware in the oscilloscope?

hehe, RFman, knowing that a customer might play with the DSO internals is one thing, allowing up front is a different thing.

I would never allow it up front, therefore all my customers got a simple question "shall i do it for you?",
if yes i did it and i'm responsible for potential warranty issues, if no then i placed "tags" in NAND, PCB and input channels cover.

But well, the question is not what i think and allow, the question is what Pascal does.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 09, 2011, 11:10:35 pm
Hi Pascal,

Question: do you give a three year warranty if we change the resistors and firmware in the oscilloscope?

hehe, RFman, knowing that a custom might play with the DSO internals is one thing, allowing up front is a different thing.

I would never allow it up front, therefore all my customers got a simple question "shall i do it for you?",
if yes i did it and i'm responsible for potential warranty issues, if no then i placed "tags" in NAND, PCB and input channels cover.

But well, the question is not what i think and allow, the question is what Pascal does.

Hi Tinhead,

Oh I see, now I understand. It's just that this was one of the things I considered when ordering my oscilloscope.

I agree, it is up to what Pascal allows as far as to what his warranty is.

Thanks for that information.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 10, 2011, 03:51:52 am
There was an interesting Tekway DST1102B 100MHz DSO Review article in Silicon Chip magazine January 2011.

http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/search/index.html?scope=&keywords=Tekway&Search=Search (http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/search/index.html?scope=&keywords=Tekway&Search=Search)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 10, 2011, 05:00:45 am
I scanned the Chinese panel and replaced the characters with English.

I haven't tried it on for size yet, but it looks close!

-P


Hi PsI-On,

When you added the letters and lines onto the front panel, did you put them on a seperate layer to the background colour. Why I ask is that some dial paper already has a background colour. I would be good if it was possible to print on this without the background. Are you able to generate another image of your front panel without the background colour.


Thanks for a great front panel.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: PsI-On on March 10, 2011, 09:40:30 am
Hi RFman,

Yes all the text is on separate layers, I can generate another image but it will have no graphics. The Photoshop file is about 50MB if you want to play with it PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

-P
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: renais on March 10, 2011, 01:33:30 pm
Hi guys,

I heard that recently all the new DST 1062B from the traders have been with upgraded firmware version 2.06.3. The new version has hack-prevention which prevents illegal firmware update as we did for ver 2.06.2.

Although firmware upgrading with hacked fimware image by USB is not allowed anymore, , I guess by JTAG we still can backup the image and then change to hacked version, if CPLD and FPGA design are not changed from v2.06.2 to v2.06.3. Has anyone tried and confirmed this? Also kindly correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on March 10, 2011, 01:49:32 pm
Warranty is applied only if no hardware changes are made by fellows. This means Hantek agents may do for you (add-ons, every hardware maintenance like electronic boards, keyboard and display changes). We asked Hantek to put a customized laser security hologram sticker to prevent case opening.
For firmware, the ones provided by Hantek cannot cancel warranty. For shipment charges, customer pays the shipping to us, and he can choose the best ecnomical way for this, and we will pay the shipment back to the customer: this time, we always choose our international post service (the one we use for the purchase process), and we pay for shipping insurance (the rate is the DSO+shipment value, DSO value is our purchase price). ;)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 10, 2011, 02:02:13 pm
Hi guys,

I heard that recently all the new DST 1062B from the traders have been with upgraded firmware version 2.06.3. The new version has hack-prevention which prevents illegal firmware update as we did for ver 2.06.2.

Although firmware upgrading with hacked fimware image by USB is not allowed anymore, , I guess by JTAG we still can backup the image and then change to hacked version, if CPLD and FPGA design are not changed from v2.06.2 to v2.06.3. Has anyone tried and confirmed this? Also kindly correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks!

if you would spend 10mins to read this thread you will see that:
- yes we know it
- yes it works still over UART
- yes it can work over USB if you read carefully what i wrote
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on March 10, 2011, 02:24:20 pm
The Photoshop file is about 50MB if you want to play with it PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.
I want to.  ;D
I can show my version *.psd precise sizing.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: SoftwareSamurai on March 11, 2011, 01:41:05 am
You know what would be a really great mod for my DSO5120B? How about a 100 MHz DDS function generator!
.
.
.
Yeah, I know. I'm dreaming. Time to crack open the wallet for a good DDS unit...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: renais on March 11, 2011, 02:45:27 am
Hi guys,

I heard that recently all the new DST 1062B from the traders have been with upgraded firmware version 2.06.3. The new version has hack-prevention which prevents illegal firmware update as we did for ver 2.06.2.

Although firmware upgrading with hacked fimware image by USB is not allowed anymore, , I guess by JTAG we still can backup the image and then change to hacked version, if CPLD and FPGA design are not changed from v2.06.2 to v2.06.3. Has anyone tried and confirmed this? Also kindly correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks!

if you would spend 10mins to read this thread you will see that:
- yes we know it
- yes it works still over UART
- yes it can work over USB if you read carefully what i wrote

Hi Tinhead,

Thanks for your kind comments, I should have read the thread more carefully!

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: kahe40 on March 11, 2011, 09:59:04 am

>>> I should have read the thread more carefully!

I dont think so, there are 24 pages with 350 answers,
it took me one afternoon to read everything,
result was: I know less than before!
(because 95% of the thread is bla-bla-bla...)

I found this page for Hantek Scopes:
http://www.socratesblog.eu/?p=174 (http://www.socratesblog.eu/?p=174)
maybe it helps a little bit.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 11, 2011, 11:26:10 am

I dont think so, there are 24 pages with 350 answers,
it took me one afternoon to read everything,
result was: I know less than before!


seriously, you don't need 200MHz bw DSO if your IQ is too low to use search function

Ask the right question and you will get answer, a very first post like "no idea", "i'm blind", "help me" are useless.
And no, don't ask for pre-compiled USB hacks, use your brain again, everything you need is in here.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: RFman on March 12, 2011, 07:10:38 am
Tinman, have you tried this hack on the DST1062B?

Do you know if the DST1062B has the same components as the DST1102B?

Thanks.

Afaik yes, all Tekway's are equal inside within model series:
DST1062B=DST1102B=DST1202B
DST4062B=DST4102B
DST3022B=DST3042B

The DST3xxxB are probably like DST4000B, but without SRAM soldered and with different FPGA config applied.
The DST4xxxB are a bit different then DST1xxxB (layout and XO), and of course FPGA config didn't match.
So as already said, hacks within model series are possible, but not accross.

Regards the DST1062B hack, it has been tested and confirmed as working by someone else.

On my DST1102B i can switch firmwares between 60-100-200MHz, there are of course measurable differences,
see attached picture (db vs MHz on screen)

Tekway seems to be broad-minded, the -3db bandwidth is always higher
than the model bandwidth (R&S SMY -> DSO ->T 50Ohm terminated)
Hi Tinhead,

In the plot Frequency/dB that you did with DST1202B fw in your DST1102B Hardware. Did you change the channel amp resistors etc for this plot/trace? I note that with DST1102B fw it is 0dB at 100MHz. If components were not changed, what is the plot/trace like with these changed.

Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Bored@Work on March 12, 2011, 09:48:03 am

>>> I should have read the thread more carefully!

I dont think so, there are 24 pages with 350 answers,
it took me one afternoon to read everything,
result was: I know less than before!
(because 95% of the thread is bla-bla-bla...)

If you are so retarded that this is over your head, you should bring all your electronics stuff back where you bought it, and ask for your money back. When asked why, tell them you are too stupid to use it.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on March 12, 2011, 01:50:58 pm
Hi Tinhead,

In the plot Frequency/dB that you did with DST1202B fw in your DST1102B Hardware. Did you change the channel amp resistors etc for this plot/trace? I note that with DST1102B fw it is 0dB at 100MHz. If components were not changed, what is the plot/trace like with these changed.

Thanks for your help.

this plot was created on very early 100MHz Tekway hw revision, where some parts are like in currenty 200MHz model
and some ~ like in 100MHz model. I should probably create a "proper" one from each model (current hw revision) hacked/not hacked.

In principle as already mentioned it will be a bit worse if you hack 60MHz to 200MHz bw, and almost equal (to my old plot)
if you hack 100MHz model.

For sure, if you change the few resistors it will looks like on original 200MHz model (current hw revision) - see attached
- sweep from HP8594E , 0-400 MHz in 50 ms.  Channel 1 is connected with a known good LMR-195 N-to-BNC cable
with a 50-ohm terminator on the scope end.  The knee occurs at about 2 ms = 400MHz*27ms/50ms=216 MHz, -3db point is about 266 MHz.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on March 12, 2011, 04:08:49 pm
I draw your option panel to fit the real oscilloscope.
This had to completely disassemble the device. 
Slightly changed design. Design Tekway I don't like.
Color file will do tomorrow. 
What type of file like all-* .CDR, * pdf, * psd or JPEG? 
Please do not throw tomatoes at me!


Quote
Please zip it and replace the attached, it is slowing down this page ...
Edit: Sorry … Corrected.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: nukie on March 13, 2011, 12:50:35 am

>>> I should have read the thread more carefully!

I dont think so, there are 24 pages with 350 answers,
it took me one afternoon to read everything,
result was: I know less than before!
(because 95% of the thread is bla-bla-bla...)

I found this page for Hantek Scopes:
http://www.socratesblog.eu/?p=174 (http://www.socratesblog.eu/?p=174)
maybe it helps a little bit.



Firstly, you should have at least some experience with how the microprocessor works before you attempt to mess with your DSO. I spent more than an afternoon to read and digest, guess what? I got more than I need.

I can see the intention of your post is to advertise the webpage here?
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: RFman on March 13, 2011, 05:38:53 am
Hi Tinhead,

In the plot Frequency/dB that you did with DST1202B fw in your DST1102B Hardware. Did you change the channel amp resistors etc for this plot/trace? I note that with DST1102B fw it is 0dB at 100MHz. If components were not changed, what is the plot/trace like with these changed.

Thanks for your help.

this plot was created on very early 100MHz Tekway hw revision, where some parts are like in currenty 200MHz model
and some ~ like in 100MHz model. I should probably create a "proper" one from each model (current hw revision) hacked/not hacked.

In principle as already mentioned it will be a bit worse if you hack 60MHz to 200MHz bw, and almost equal (to my old plot)
if you hack 100MHz model.

For sure, if you change the few resistors it will looks like on original 200MHz model (current hw revision) - see attached
- sweep from HP8594E , 0-400 MHz in 50 ms.  Channel 1 is connected with a known good LMR-195 N-to-BNC cable
with a 50-ohm terminator on the scope end.  The knee occurs at about 2 ms = 400MHz*27ms/50ms=216 MHz, -3db point is about 266 MHz.

Hi Tinhead,

Am I correct in saying you meant "The knee occurs at 27ms" and not 2ms? 400MHz x (27ms/50ms) = 216MHz. The step at the right of the screen (13.5 divisions from the left) looks to be the point where the sweep ends (400MHz) and starts (0MHz) again. Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?

But all is ok if the -3dB point is 266MHz. I've never measured it but I wonder what it would be when a 200MHz probe is connected and used. That would make it worse. I take it that your test was without a probe, with the 50ohm terminator at the oscilloscope BNC connector.

Later I may change the resistors after I have my Tekway DST1102B running a English UI. Am I correct in saying that if you don't change the resistors (and adjust the compensation etc). And run it at 200MHz. Then you are better to get the Tekway 100MHz and not a 60MHz oscilloscope to convert/hack?

Yes, traces for not hacked and hacked for each model would be interesting and would show a lot on what performance to expect.

Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: RFman on March 13, 2011, 07:24:18 am
Hi Tinhead,

In the plot Frequency/dB that you did with DST1202B fw in your DST1102B Hardware. Did you change the channel amp resistors etc for this plot/trace? I note that with DST1102B fw it is 0dB at 100MHz. If components were not changed, what is the plot/trace like with these changed.

Thanks for your help.

this plot was created on very early 100MHz Tekway hw revision, where some parts are like in currenty 200MHz model
and some ~ like in 100MHz model. I should probably create a "proper" one from each model (current hw revision) hacked/not hacked.

In principle as already mentioned it will be a bit worse if you hack 60MHz to 200MHz bw, and almost equal (to my old plot)
if you hack 100MHz model.

For sure, if you change the few resistors it will looks like on original 200MHz model (current hw revision) - see attached
- sweep from HP8594E , 0-400 MHz in 50 ms.  Channel 1 is connected with a known good LMR-195 N-to-BNC cable
with a 50-ohm terminator on the scope end.  The knee occurs at about 2 ms = 400MHz*27ms/50ms=216 MHz, -3db point is about 266 MHz.

Hi Tinhead,

Am I correct in saying you meant "The knee occurs at 27ms" and not 2ms? 400MHz x (27ms/50ms) = 216MHz. The step at the right of the screen (13.5 divisions from the left) looks to be the point where the sweep ends (400MHz) and starts (0MHz) again. Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?

But all is ok if the -3dB point is 266MHz. I've never measured it but I wonder what it would be when a 200MHz probe is connected and used. That would make it worse. I take it that your test was without a probe, with the 50ohm terminator at the oscilloscope BNC connector.

Later I may change the resistors after I have my Tekway DST1102B running a English UI. Am I correct in saying that if you don't change the resistors (and adjust the compensation etc). And run it at 200MHz. Then you are better to get the Tekway 100MHz and not a 60MHz oscilloscope to convert/hack?

Yes, traces for not hacked and hacked for each model would be interesting and would show a lot on what performance to expect.

Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on March 13, 2011, 02:49:30 pm
Am I correct in saying you meant "The knee occurs at 27ms" and not 2ms? 400MHz x (27ms/50ms) = 216MHz. The step at the right of the screen (13.5 divisions from the left) looks to be the point where the sweep ends (400MHz) and starts (0MHz) again. Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?

But all is ok if the -3dB point is 266MHz. I've never measured it but I wonder what it would be when a 200MHz probe is connected and used. That would make it worse. I take it that your test was without a probe, with the 50ohm terminator at the oscilloscope BNC connector.

Later I may change the resistors after I have my Tekway DST1102B running a English UI. Am I correct in saying that if you don't change the resistors (and adjust the compensation etc). And run it at 200MHz. Then you are better to get the Tekway 100MHz and not a 60MHz oscilloscope to convert/hack?

Yes, traces for not hacked and hacked for each model would be interesting and would show a lot on what performance to expect.

Thanks for your help.

no idea where the spike was coming from, not really important.

In principle yes, if you buy 100MHz model and hack to bw, you will have full -3db by 200MHz (without any hw changes)
instead of something between 180-190MHz if you chose a 60MHz model. It is up to you.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: project on March 14, 2011, 03:44:57 pm
no idea where the spike was coming from, not really important.

looks like a singal bounce to me, no big deal for the test.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: dfnr2 on March 14, 2011, 07:48:30 pm
Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?
It's from normal tracking generator function, switching of RF circuits inside the tracking generator prior to the sweep.  It's in the "dead period" during sweep setup, so it's irrelevant.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: RFman on March 14, 2011, 08:35:39 pm
Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?
It's from normal tracking generator function, switching of RF circuits inside the tracking generator prior to the sweep.  It's in the "dead period" during sweep setup, so it's irrelevant.

0MHz is at the left of the screen. 400MHz is at around 13.5 divisions from the left. That makes the step and spike at around 3.5 and 4 divisions from the left, somewhere between 0MHz and 400MHz. Maybe around 3.75 divisions x(400MHz/13.5) = 111MHz. That's not during sweep setup but is during a sweep at around 111MHz.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: RFman on March 14, 2011, 08:56:43 pm
no idea where the spike was coming from, not really important.

looks like a singal bounce to me, no big deal for the test.

I was thinking it's maybe a mismatch reflection on the transmission cable between the generator and oscilloscope, but there is only one spike and a step. But this is at around 111MHz which is before our measurements at 200MHz.

Interesting, thanks all for your help.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: tinhead on March 14, 2011, 09:12:34 pm
0MHz is at the left of the screen. 400MHz is at around 13.5 divisions from the left. That makes the step and spike at around 3.5 and 4 divisions from the left, somewhere between 0MHz and 400MHz. Maybe around 3.75 divisions x(400MHz/13.5) = 111MHz. That's not during sweep setup but is during a sweep at around 111MHz.

no, check the picture, the spike was on 0MHz
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 14, 2011, 09:12:55 pm
All these are with Hantek DSO5102B factory condition:


(http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae171/Xie_07/frespAc50mV_1H_20M_C_hantek67_4.gif)
Log continuous Sweep 1Hz - 20MHz, markkers around, start 1Hz, 5, 10, 20, 30, 50, 100, 200, 500, 1k, 2k 5k 10k 20k 80k 150k 300k 1M 2M 5M 10M 15M 20M scope AC, 50 ohm terminal in scope BNC (DC mode same over 1M but all below 1M is "flat" enough so that can tell... "flat"



(http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae171/Xie_07/f_resp_5_350M_s2_5M_50ohm_hantek70_3.gif)
Step sweep, start 5MHz, next longer is 7,5M. (all steps 2,5MHz, all vertical yellow lines are steps.. and all steps are sama timing but first step after 5MHz is long time (7,5MHz))
Connection: HP8567B, cood cable <2m, terminator (tektronix) 50 ohm in scope BNC



(http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae171/Xie_07/fresp_5_360M_2_5Mstep_10dB_50ohm_cursors_hantek70_1.gif)
Same but now connection is HP8567B, same cable, terminator (tektronix), 10dB suhner attenuator, scope BNC.
(I think attenuator reduce scope input reactance bad effects littlebit?? (less "ringing")

Cursors are -3dB if reference (0) is 300mVp-p (6 div) So in this picture ~175MHz
Remember that this kind of test give some image about scope analog front end... (and test settings).
Looking signals with normal capture do not give this feq response! Using scope normal probes also make big difference.






(http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae171/Xie_07/PulseShapeRisetime10dBja50ohm_cursors_hantek70_4.gif)
Pulse, rise- and fall time set to 1.3ns (HP pulse generator). Geniksen käskynä tehdä 20ns pulssi. Kytkentä: genis. (Suhner)cable, (tek) terminator, attenuator 10dB (suhner) Scope BNC.
Title: Re: Another one china DSO hack - 200MHz
Post by: RFman on March 14, 2011, 09:34:40 pm
0MHz is at the left of the screen. 400MHz is at around 13.5 divisions from the left. That makes the step and spike at around 3.5 and 4 divisions from the left, somewhere between 0MHz and 400MHz. Maybe around 3.75 divisions x(400MHz/13.5) = 111MHz. That's not during sweep setup but is during a sweep at around 111MHz.

no, check the picture, the spike was on 0MHz

Thanks Tinhead, no wonder I couldn't understand the trace. I was taking 0MHz at the left of the screen just like my old valve/transistor Tektronix 547 oscilloscope. I'm looking forward to getting my Tekway to try all the new functions. Thanks all for correcting me.... :).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on March 15, 2011, 04:38:03 pm
I draw my front panel to fit the real oscilloscope.
For this had to completely disassemble the device.  
Slightly changed design. Design Tekway I don't like.
In the tekway.zip - two good quality file (*.PDF).

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4692/02paneltekway.jpg) (http://img28.imageshack.us/i/02paneltekway.jpg/)

EDIT:
Fixed typo in Tekway_Panel.pdf
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: alm on March 15, 2011, 10:02:10 pm
Same but now connection is HP8567B, same cable, terminator (tektronix), 10dB suhner attenuator, scope BNC.
(I think attenuator reduce scope input reactance bad effects littlebit?? (less "ringing")
Probably reflections causing trouble. A high-impedance input is not a nice resistive circuit like a low-impedance transmission line, which is why all high bandwidth scopes have 50 ohm inputs. It's actually standard practice for scope bandwidth testing to use as much attenuation as possible (limited by the generator's output power), to eliminate exactly this problem.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 15, 2011, 11:30:55 pm
Same but now connection is HP8567B, same cable, terminator (tektronix), 10dB suhner attenuator, scope BNC.
(I think attenuator reduce scope input reactance bad effects littlebit?? (less "ringing")
Probably reflections causing trouble. A high-impedance input is not a nice resistive circuit like a low-impedance transmission line, which is why all high bandwidth scopes have 50 ohm inputs. It's actually standard practice for scope bandwidth testing to use as much attenuation as possible (limited by the generator's output power), to eliminate exactly this problem.

Yes, this is why I use it and also want show how it is without.  But many people I have seen using only about 50 ohm terminator.

BTW if someone have Tektronix "input normalizer" (small box with BNC connectors) it is useful tool (it need be just made for this capacitance value what is scope input)... but today can not find very easy.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 16, 2011, 07:20:51 am
Hi Tinhead and all,

I have just received my Tekway oscilloscope from Pioneer via DHL. It took 7 days from the date of order :). I found the Utility "System information button" position in the English manual that I had downloaded from Teckway's website. It is:

Model: dst1102b
Soft version: 2.05.0 (100305.0)
Hardware version: 0x555583e8

I've purchased a USB UART RS232 3.3V TTL board to enable me to change the Menu Display to English. On reading the instructions again, it said that there was a prehacked version for firmware versions before 2.6.xx.

Are the prehacked versions upgrades still available. Would like to make it a 100MHz or 200MHz oscilloscope with English Menu Display.

I also can't find a USB driver to run TTScop program via USB from my Laptop computer. Any idea where I can download this driver? I have Windows 7 64 bit.

Thanks Tinhead, without your information I wouldn't have a great oscilloscope for such a great price USD$580.00 including DHL shipping to Australia.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: flolic on March 16, 2011, 08:39:40 am
I draw my front panel to fit the real oscilloscope.
For this had to completely disassemble the device.  
Slightly changed design. Design Tekway I don't like.
In the tekway.zip - two good quality file (*.PDF).


Hi Igor, you are missing "i" in a acquire  ;)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 16, 2011, 11:40:25 am
I have just received my Tekway oscilloscope. It is:

Model: dst1102b
Soft version: 2.05.0 (100305.0)
Hardware version: 0x555583e8

aha, so old stock as currently 2.6.3 (110225.0) is programmed by the manufacturer

I've purchased a USB UART RS232 3.3V TTL board to enable me to change the Menu Display to English.

good, as you have USB UART converter use it. You can just download the recent firmware,
for example this one

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg36768#msg36768 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg36768#msg36768)

and hack after firmware ugrade via UART.

On reading the instructions again, it said that there was a prehacked version for firmware versions before 2.6.xx.

Are the prehacked versions upgrades still available. Would like to make it a 100MHz or 200MHz oscilloscope with English Menu Display.

i did cleaned-up this thread and removed all pre-hacked firmware versions
as they only works with minority of currently available DSOs.

I also can't find a USB driver to run TTScop program via USB from my Laptop computer. Any idea where I can download this driver? I have Windows 7 64 bit.

on Hantek website there is new TTScope version which should work with Win7 64bit.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 16, 2011, 01:17:46 pm
btw, i did said "manafacturer is installing by defualt 2.6.3 (110225.0) now",
this is not yet bug-free firmware, it is still in principle the same as 2.06.3 (110118.0).

Hanek did changed the PCB revision, so small firmware update was necessary, therefore revision 2.6.3 (110225.0).
It can be downloaded from Hantek website.

No idea if Tekway changed the hardware too, so therefore there is not new firmware on Tekway website.

There are no details on hw modification, we have to wait until someone bought a Hantek with new hw version.
They just started the production, so probably few old hardware revision models still available.

Even if Hantek said "minor modifications only" i can tell you already that
display init is different (same display but connected a bit different),
buzzer driver has been changed (connected to different port - probably pin swap with display),
some FPGA design changes (only for new hw revisions).


The firmware update is of course checking the hw revision, so it will not "destroy" old models
(and will not update buzzer, display and FPGA).

Most interessting thing during hw revision check is the information
which will be read by the "readHWVersion" from EEPROM:
- PCB revision
- LCD revision
- TOUCH revision
- FRONT PANEL revision
- USB revision
- NET revision

PCB and DISPLAY are clear, probably some routing changes to support new functions, NET is know, that's the LAN addon,
USB revision (probably) for the planned SCPI support, TOUCH - yeah, we know there will be touch in the future,
and FRONT PANEL - right, Hantek have on the front panel preparation for DB25 plug - probably LA functionality in the future.

I think i will order a new hw revision and check what inside, however not now - i will wait until the Hantek's LAN addon is ready.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 16, 2011, 06:35:06 pm
Thanks for your information. 5202B(Mod 5102B) Updated to 2.6.3(1100225.0). looks more function than 2.6.2. Utility has 3 pages now. and language packs Now have English, Chinese(simplify), Chinese(traditional)--have it in 2.6.2 but file name was wrong so won't show, Japanese, Franch, Deutsch, korean. Other funtions haven't tested yet.

Update: the 2.6.3 looks more bugs than 2.6.2.
Acquire switch between diff long term will let DSO halt or response slow, longer term, slower.This caused by turn filter on. And by turned filter on will also cause that CH1 display little slow, and vertical position image shift little while changing.  
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: alm on March 16, 2011, 09:43:56 pm
BTW if someone have Tektronix "input normalizer" (small box with BNC connectors) it is useful tool (it need be just made for this capacitance value what is scope input)... but today can not find very easy.

It's just an adjustable capacitor in a box. A 10:1 probe accomplishes exactly the same: making sure the capacitance of all channels is the same so you can swap probes without checking compensation each time. Just compensate the probe to one channel, and adjust the other channels so the signal looks the same. The actual capacitance value doesn't really matter as long as it's within the compensation range of your probes. On scopes were you can adjust the input capacitance (which does not include the Tekway/Hantek scopes, as far as I know)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 16, 2011, 10:21:35 pm
BTW if someone have Tektronix "input normalizer" (small box with BNC connectors) it is useful tool (it need be just made for this capacitance value what is scope input)... but today can not find very easy.

It's just an adjustable capacitor in a box. A 10:1 probe accomplishes exactly the same: making sure the capacitance of all channels is the same so you can swap probes without checking compensation each time. Just compensate the probe to one channel, and adjust the other channels so the signal looks the same. The actual capacitance value doesn't really matter as long as it's within the compensation range of your probes. On scopes were you can adjust the input capacitance (which does not include the Tekway/Hantek scopes, as far as I know)

Really? But why they sell these calibration fixtures for every different scope input capacitances seoarately. If it is adjusted capacitance how you can calibrate with it becouse you never know if capacitance is right.
Example here
http://www.classictek.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=105:calibration-fixtures&Itemid=57&layout=default (http://www.classictek.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=105:calibration-fixtures&Itemid=57&layout=default)
and there example this : 067-0538-00 Input Normalizer.

Also in tektronix service/calibration manuals ask put this "normalizer"  to scope input (and also extremely fast rising pulse generator) but never it tell that adjust this box capacitance. This box can use in calibration routines for adjusting device under calibration! If you adjust tools for calibration what you then calibrate? This "box" is afaik not itself adjustable becouse it is used for checking adjustment in calibration prosedure. But, also it can use for other purposes.

For every different scope capacitance value need buy different box.
I have never open this "input Normalizer" and I can not tell exactly what is inside.

;)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: alm on March 16, 2011, 10:52:39 pm
Really? But why they sell these calibration fixtures for every different scope input capacitances seoarately.
To be more accurate, it's a fixed cap with a smaller trimmer cap in parallel (18pF // 2-8pF for the 20pF model according to Håkan). There is also a 1Mohm resistor in parallel (so it forms a 1:1 compensated voltage divider if the scope's input capacitance matches the normalizer). They need different ones because you would need a huge adjustment range (=bad resolution) to cover 12pF-47pF or so.

If it is adjusted capacitance how you can calibrate with it becouse you never know if capacitance is right.
Just like every other calibration, by comparing it to a more accurate source (at some point they probably use a capacitance meter). Not sure what the factory calibration procedure was. But I don't see the point about caring about input capacitance, as long as the channels match, everything should be fine. And you can't adjust it on (most) modern scopes anyway.

Also in tektronix service/calibration manuals ask put this "normalizer"  to scope input (and also extremely fast rising pulse generator) but never it tell that adjust this box capacitance.
That would be the service manual for the normalizer, if such a thing exists (it was designed for internal use, so I'm not sure how well it was documented).

This box can use in calibration routines for adjusting device under calibration! If you adjust tools for calibration what you then calibrate?
That's the whole traceability chain of calibration, all the way to the national standards lab. A 3.5/4.5 digit DMM is calibrated by a DMM calibration system, which may be calibrated by a reference DMM, which is calibrated by a voltage and resistor transfer standard, which is calibrated to a Josephson standard, which is a fundamental physical standard which defines the volt. Same for time/frequency, which is traced to a cesium clock. You can derive capacitance from those.

Found the calibration procedure in the TekScopes archive:
Quote from: David Garrido
After searching through some data this is the best info you will find.  Straight from the horses mouth........so to speak.  Both the author of this procedure and the gentleman who inserted it into the microfiche files worked at Tek during the 60's and I am just the means by which it made its way to the digital realm.

If readjustment should be necessary, the internal resistor should first be measured to be sure it is in tolerance.  Then the internal variable capacitor may be adjusted to produce a square—cornered, flat-topped response to a square-wave signal on an oscilloscope it is designed to be used with, in the same way as described in the instructions for adjusting scope input capacitance.  The response of the scope to square waves should first be known to be normal, and the input capacitance to the scope should be known to be within about five per cent of its nominal value at the attenuator setting used.  It is normal for input capacitance to vary slightly from one setting to the next to correspond with slight variations of input resistance.  A Tektronix type 130L-C Meter may be used to measure the scope input capacitance.  Measurement should be made while the scope is operating.  When using the Type 130, to avoid a small possibility of a measurement error due to over driving the input, it is a good idea to use an attenuator setting that corresponds to a deflection factor of about 1 volt per division.     

Written by: Leon Orchard
PE/Elec Evaluation
Inserted by: John Mulvey
Tektronix 3-1-67
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 17, 2011, 05:23:39 am
btw, i did said "manafacturer is installing by defualt 2.6.3 (110225.0) now",
this is not yet bug-free firmware, it is still in principle the same as 2.06.3 (110118.0).

Hanek did changed the PCB revision, so small firmware update was necessary, therefore revision 2.6.3 (110225.0).
It can be downloaded from Hantek website.

No idea if Tekway changed the hardware too, so therefore there is not new firmware on Tekway website.

There are no details on hw modification, we have to wait until someone bought a Hantek with new hw version.
They just started the production, so probably few old hardware revision models still available.

Even if Hantek said "minor modifications only" i can tell you already that
display init is different (same display but connected a bit different),
buzzer driver has been changed (connected to different port - probably pin swap with display),
some FPGA design changes (only for new hw revisions).


The firmware update is of course checking the hw revision, so it will not "destroy" old models
(and will not update buzzer, display and FPGA).

Most interessting thing during hw revision check is the information
which will be read by the "readHWVersion" from EEPROM:
- PCB revision
- LCD revision
- TOUCH revision
- FRONT PANEL revision
- USB revision
- NET revision

PCB and DISPLAY are clear, probably some routing changes to support new functions, NET is know, that's the LAN addon,
USB revision (probably) for the planned SCPI support, TOUCH - yeah, we know there will be touch in the future,
and FRONT PANEL - right, Hantek have on the front panel preparation for DB25 plug - probably LA functionality in the future.

I think i will order a new hw revision and check what inside, however not now - i will wait until the Hantek's LAN addon is ready.


Hi Tinhead,

From your informstion it looks that, if I load the latest Tekway firmware 2.6.3, it won't hurt the oscilloscope because it 1st checks the version of hardware before it updates.

I'm now thinking that it maybe better if I go straight to the 200MHz version and be finished. Is there a prehack upgrade for that as I'm waiting for the UART RS232 TTL interface to come from Hong Kong. I can't do much with my new Tekway as I can't read Chinese... :)

Yes it looks as if there are a few DST1102b with the old version of software.

Thanks again for all the work that you have put in for us.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 17, 2011, 05:58:37 am
I have tested with one single scope:

model: DSO5102B
serial T1G/008xxxxxx
soft version: 2.06.3 (110118.0)
hard version: 0x555583e8

This scope accept new FW what is now shared by Hantek.
( dst1kb_2.06.3_15102b_fact(110225.0).up )

But I do not know what is changed. Fast check I can not find any changes - as expected. (later I look more)
(maybe it do not nearly anything change for this scope becouse HW version?)

It seems reset power up counter and FW upgrade counter. Nice.

----------------

alm: thank your opinion comment about Tek "normalizer".


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 18, 2011, 11:37:24 am
Hi Tinhead,

I have just updated my Tekway DST1102b to a DST1202b. Everything so far is working OK including the English Menu display... :). After backing up the memory contents, I used version 2.06.3 - 200MHz update.

So far everything has progressed nicely with my Tekway purchase from Pioneer.

Thanks for your help.
Title: The new firmware crack 2.06.3 for Tekway
Post by: wjb444 on March 18, 2011, 02:54:07 pm
from china
Title: Re: The new firmware crack 2.06.3 for Tekway
Post by: tinhead on March 18, 2011, 04:31:44 pm
from china

look at that, wjb444 is here .. welcome!

For those of you asking what these file are for :

dst1kb_2.06.3_01202b_fc(110225.0)(1).up  - this is the latest original firmware for
Tekway DST1202B (or whatever Tekway model hacked to 200MHz).
Don't use it on Hantek (for Hantek you will find exact the same fw version on Hantek website).


dst1kb_2.06.3_1062ridoflim(110315.1).up - this is somehow broken or template for upcoming firmware 2.6.3_110315.1

wjb444 , any idea for what this file is ? (i see what inside, seems to be like fw template only).

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 18, 2011, 07:28:08 pm
ups, the Tekway firmware is broken ...

there are all language files (*.lan) missing ... so after update is only chinese available, heh

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: spookytooth on March 18, 2011, 07:40:42 pm
Yes... right. And for me it did not with with the ..(1).up in the end of the filename. Checking this on the console (UART) showed the error "... unexpected character '(' "
 ;) You need to remove the '(1)' from filename so that ist looks like all update files. And - of course you need to copy back the language files...

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on March 18, 2011, 08:17:30 pm
New design of my Chinese Tekway DST1102B.

(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2131/newtekway.jpg) (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/newtekway.jpg/)

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4323/newtekway2.jpg) (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/newtekway2.jpg/)

(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4270/newtekway1.jpg) (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/newtekway1.jpg/)    
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 18, 2011, 08:30:34 pm
Yes... right. And for me it did not with with the ..(1).up in the end of the filename. Checking this on the console (UART) showed the error "... unexpected character '(' "
 ;) You need to remove the '(1)' from filename so that ist looks like all update files. And - of course you need to copy back the language files...

yep ..

i think wjb444 even not recognized that the other lan files are missing as he is using chinese, so what, shit happens

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: spookytooth on March 18, 2011, 08:33:48 pm
One of these ching chong language files contained in the hantek version must be corrupt. The system crashed when I tried to switch language thru one of these funny character settings (don't know which one) ....
So here is an update file that contains Chinese, English, French and German and works fine for me.
And there is on additional (empty) file in the update file set called 'special'. This one is unique to Tekway update set. Anybody any idea what this means?

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 18, 2011, 08:58:41 pm
One of these ching chong language files contained in the hantek version must be corrupt. The system crashed when I tried to switch language thru one of these funny character settings (don't know which one) ....
yep,indeed (that's why deleted my posting few sec. ago ...)

So here is an update file that contains Chinese, English, French and German and works fine for me.

good work

And there is on additional (empty) file in the update file set called 'special'. This one is unique to Tekway update set. Anybody any idea what this means?

actually it is special file to do special things ... middle of the firmware update procedure this file will be loaded, if exist .. so let's play
to find out what it can do for us.

Actually Hantek fw is also checking for this file, but they just not used it in last fw (probably Tekway shoudl just remove empty file, whatever)
Title: Re: The new firmware crack 2.06.3 for Tekway
Post by: bilko on March 18, 2011, 09:22:23 pm
from china


dst1kb_2.06.3_1062ridoflim(110315.1).up - this is somehow broken or template for upcoming firmware 2.6.3_110315.1

wjb444 , any idea for what this file is ? (i see what inside, seems to be like fw template only).




Is the clue in the filename ?

dst1kb_2.06.3_1062ridoflim(110315.1).up

rid of limits ?


Title: Re: The new firmware crack 2.06.3 for Tekway
Post by: tinhead on March 18, 2011, 10:04:27 pm
Is the clue in the filename ?
dst1kb_2.06.3_1062ridoflim(110315.1).up
rid of limits ?

you should really not ask so many questions :P

But yet it is, actually the firmware update procedure is checking for the "special" file, if such file exists
the model version will be not checked and the update procedure simple continue to execute what inside the "update" script.

So if you for example have an firmware update file which contains logotype.dis with "tekway_dst1062b", the script
will update the firmware and on some step replace your logotype.dis with the one from your firmware update.
This works of course as universal hack (well, still one per Hantek/Tekway).

But don't forget, you should also move the /dstxxxxx to the same model as the specified in logotype.dis
If you don't the displayed model (in utility-system information) will be changed, but the DSO itself still not changed.

So yes, it mean "get rid of limits", but of course you have to take care of the /dstxxxxB in root dir too (which was not the case in the fw posted by wjb444).

Here is the prove:
I did changed the logotype.dis content to "tekway_dst1102b", compiled the firmware and updated my DSO.
The bootscreen logo is still displaying DST1202B, but the utility-system info DST1102B.
As you can see i have still 2ns/div, which means it is still DST1202B even if the model version displayed in
utility-system info says DST1102B.

If i add into the "update" script a mv /dst1202B /dst1102B and compile the firmware again (and do update)
the model will be really changed.

So yes, this "special" file is removing check of the "current logotype.dis = logotype.dis from firmware update file",
but you have still to care about the /dstxxxxB file in root dir.

I think probably someone from the Tekway/Hantek was pissed of to care each time they soldered new DSO
to look which update file for which model, so they just added a backdoor.
This kind of protection was a joke, so probably they already working on new protection,
so they probably will not care that this backdoor got exploited.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: wjb444 on March 19, 2011, 04:25:13 am
Sorry, my English is poor, I use google automatic translation.
Firmware, I did not break people, it comes from the generation of TEKWAY Agents, so, sorry, I can not answer any questions.
But the firmware is easy to use.


??????????????google ?????
?????????????TEKWAY??,?????????????????
????????
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 20, 2011, 06:09:20 am
New design of my Chinese Tekway DST1102B.

(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2131/newtekway.jpg) (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/newtekway.jpg/)

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4323/newtekway2.jpg) (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/newtekway2.jpg/)

(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4270/newtekway1.jpg) (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/newtekway1.jpg/)    


Hi Igor,
Your front panels look great. What type of material did you use. Did you use something like the origional panel where the LED shines through for the VO control? What type of printer did you use to print colour? I perfer your origional panel which was close to Tekway's design, where the channel inputs were grouped with their controls. Is it possible for you to produce a PDF of the correct size for your origional design. How did you do the cut outs?

Thanks for for your help.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 20, 2011, 06:33:40 am
I have not been able to get Windows 7 to install/update the driver that comes with TTScope in the Driver folder. I've downloaded TTScope from both Tekway and Hentek but the driver will not install in Windows 7. Looks to me as if a different driver is required for windows 7. A search has not found a suitable driver. Has anyone a solution for this problem,

Thanks all.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on March 20, 2011, 08:25:25 am
Your front panels look great.
Thank you!

Quote
Is it possible for you to produce a PDF of the correct size for your origional design. How did you do the cut outs?
I have long picked up material for printing. Watched the film and paper. Stopped on paper density 125.
Printed on Pro Minolta laser printer.
Recommend punctured paper hole LED some buttons V0 to laminated. I did not do so, and LED almost not visible.
Then closed the paper on both sides of the matte laminate thickness 75 µm.
Laser cut holes and path.

In the ZIP: PDF files for printing and cutting.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 20, 2011, 08:34:55 am
Get nearly 200MHz without any modifications!
All tests are made with unmodified Hantek DSO5102B.


I make short test becouse many peoples do not use direct cable with termination to scope from DUT.
Most of times peoples use probes of course. So, what is important: scope BW alone or probe+scope BW?
(of course both are important but in practice normal use is with probes.)

Now I make only one "big trick". I did not use probe GND wire. I use normal universal probe adapter to connect center and GND just on the probe tip. (It is BNC and it have hole for probe and it connect GND and tip)
All (I hope) know that making HF measurements using probe GND wire give very bad effect. So normally we use some kind of tip end what connect GND directly. (With Hantek probes there are not these any included in package, not even small "spring" style what price is 1/100 yuan)

This test do not tell anything about this situation when use "long" GND wire.

For some compare I make also test with Agilent/HP old "not bad" probe with Hantek.
Both probes LF compensation I make for exactly same square shape with scope own 1kHz signal.






(http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae171/Xie_07/probe_1_1_C.jpg)
Hantek P150 probe (labeled as 100/6MHz).
Now with 1:1 setting. Signal 0,5 - 10MHz.



(http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae171/Xie_07/Probe_10_1_C.jpg)
Same hantek probe 10:1 setting. Signal 1 - around 280MHz
I use step sweep and stepping is stopped after around every 50MHz advanced as "poor mans markers".



(http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae171/Xie_07/probe_agilent_10_1_C.jpg)
same test but now HP/Agilent "150MHz" probe 10:1, sweep stop around 250MHz (sorry, my mistake)



(http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae171/Xie_07/probe_pulse.jpg)
Hantek P150 probe, now mediumfast rising and falling pulses. (pulse generator specs: rise and fall time <=1.3ns not good but enough for this purpose)
(if all is exactly ok, pulse looks symmetric... so there is not perfect frequency response over 0 - 1GHz / ;) But there is scope freq response shape with probe together and lot of transmission line mismatches and also pulese generator itself is not perfect. It is HP8161A with "fast" option (not 50MHz model).


(http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae171/Xie_07/HP_probe_pulse_C.jpg)
Same test with HP "150MHz" probe. (littlebit better pulse shape but not big advantage. DC/Ac do not make any difference with this pulse freq)


Conclusion: Not bad. In this price class Hantek with own probes is really good. It is not Tektronix, it is not Agilent but... it is reasonable good scope for normal hobby and also professional use for signals under 100MHz.

(also I have make fine adjustment for CH1 and 2 compensation capacitors (inside scope front end) as perfect as I can do but this do not affect these probe tests becouse all they are made using scope lower voltage band.)

Also I test with probe own GND wire. (later pics - but both are really bad (of course) and nearly as same class)


----------
So if you do not really need advantage what mod may give, do not mod a: if you want factory 3 year warranty, b if you are not sure how to do mod. (fail may give lot of troubles - but still it is "repairable" if you follow exactly what all information you can get reading carefully this forum... in this case Rigol is littlebit different)

But remember, samplerate do not go faster.
This is also very good scope in its price class.

(with mod you get 2ns/div but scope is just same speed, it is only "zoom". You can do it with computer... draw nev vlines with 2ns/div and stretch picture with irfan wiev or other. It gives just same effect. Scope real speed is just same before and after mod.)

Understand aliasing specially if use FFT. With this kind of freq response shape there is lot of and littlebit more aliasing.. nearly as garbage collection. And modification make it more bad. Lot of more bad. If want make good, it need do just opposite as modification. It need reject BW and make it more like brickwall shape. (but who cares FFT quality... maybe not so many)

If you use scope in high temperature. Room temperature high or  if air do not flow very free around scope.

Maybe it is good in this case install small fan inside scope. (no need full speed, you can reduce nominal speed example x0.7 - 0.9 (depends fan type and quality) and you get low noise and it still helps airflow inside scope. It need only small extra amount of air. (example double speed if compare natural free air flow and exance rate)  In this case I recommend fan take outside air and flow is to inside. In this case you can put small filter before fan so all dirty do not free travel to inside.  In normal 22Celsius room temp some components work quite high temp. Clearly over 70C case temperature. It is not good to go any more high. They may last but maybe fail rate start grow.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 20, 2011, 01:23:04 pm
I have not been able to get Windows 7 to install/update the driver that comes with TTScope in the Driver folder. I've downloaded TTScope from both Tekway and Hentek but the driver will not install in Windows 7. Looks to me as if a different driver is required for windows 7. A search has not found a suitable driver. Has anyone a solution for this problem,

Thanks all.

Didn't see any problem with running on win7 32bit, just use driver under x:\Program Files\TTScope\Driver. If not working for you, install TTScope in xp sp2 compatiable mode.  Don't know 64bit.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: wjb444 on March 21, 2011, 03:28:04 am
My friends say that this firmware is deceived agents, or were cheated by manufacturers, brush machine, no 2ns file
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 21, 2011, 08:29:53 am
Time difference between channels. May come from timeshared AD conversion and becouse this is not compensated by system (FW).

(http://i969.photobucket.com/albums/ae171/Xie_07/DSO5102Boriginal_CH1_CH2_timing.jpg)

Mode, average, trig CH1, edge up.

Both channel get same signal but becouse signal split is not as good as it can be (only things what affect timing is ok).
(same cable lenght and same type of cable so trawel time is enough same.)

It may come from timeshared AD conversion. AD samples difference is 1ns but single channel is sampled every 2ns. (2 channel maximum is 500Msa/s for both channels but there are 1ns shift between channel.)

1. sample CH1
1ns time
2. sample CH2
1ns time
3. sample CH1
1ns time... etc

Who can confirm this so that it is exactly this. If not know what is truth, do not confirmate this.

IF it is this reason, I wonder why Tekway/Hantek do this mistake in FW.

It need repair  all ather modes but not Alt trig mode.

Timing is important in oscilloscope and this kind of systematic error is just "bad design".

But also it can solve with short extra lenght cable as poor mans solution...  1ns is not long travel in cable. ;)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on March 21, 2011, 11:55:48 am

Both channel get same signal but becouse signal split is not as good as it can be (only things what affect timing is ok).
(same cable lenght and same type of cable so trawel time is enough same.)


If you swap the signal cables between channels does it change?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 21, 2011, 12:41:09 pm

Both channel get same signal but becouse signal split is not as good as it can be (only things what affect timing is ok).
(same cable lenght and same type of cable so trawel time is enough same.)


If you swap the signal cables between channels does it change?

it didn't matter, ch2 is always 1ns behind ch1.

This is actually software error, my DSO (cold) is having 200ps skew time between channels, after warm-up 1ns.

Of course ALT trigger works without skew time, but is not having avg. and long mem mode, so not really a work around.
Even with ext trigger no difference, ext/5 even worse because of bug which has been still not fixed (ext/5 is increasing the 1ns to 3ns or so).

Of course you can create a small loop with RG316 cable for ch1 data and setup trigger on ch2 - hehe, then of course skew time is 0ns.

Skew time is common for many DSOs, but of course every company is reducing it to few ps during manufacturer calibration,
this seems to be not the case anylonger for HanTekway (if i'm not wrong, it wasn't there with very old firmware - but hacked).

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 21, 2011, 01:30:09 pm

If you swap the signal cables between channels does it change?

it didn't matter, ch2 is always 1ns behind ch1.

This is actually software error, my DSO (cold) is having 200ps skew time between channels, after warm-up 1ns.

Of course ALT trigger works without skew time, but is not having avg. and long mem mode, so not really a work around.
Even with ext trigger no difference, ext/5 even worse because of bug which has been still not fixed (ext/5 is increasing the 1ns to 3ns or so).

Of course you can create a small loop with RG316 cable for ch1 data and setup trigger on ch2 - hehe, then of course skew time is 0ns.

Skew time is common for many DSOs, but of course every company is reducing it to few ps during manufacturer calibration,
this seems to be not the case anylonger for HanTekway (if i'm not wrong, it wasn't there with very old firmware - but hacked).



RFman: Signal cabeling is same for both channel input BNC point so why cables change make any affect?
(yes of course I also do this but no with any real reason. Becouse cable lenght is same, both cables are good condition and they are exactly same cable type (also manufacturing lot is same...) They are also checked for this accuracy level what even can respect for BNC connector cables. Electrical lenght is much better than +-25ps need. They are checked becouse they are my calibration cables, made for Tektronx and also for some HP scope channel time differencies adjustment (skew calibration). And there need accuracy what is lot of better than 1ns. (travel time is 1ns for 300mm  in empty but in coaxial cable it depends cable and it may be something between 0.9 - 0.7 or something like this so good estimate is around 25cm)


tinhead

This is problem with cheap scopes what have not designed using professionals with long history of experience. (example Tek or HP) Many good scope take high care about it.)
But today it is littlebit different becouse digital scopes. If digitize with 1ns periods resolution is 1ns. Now this 1ns is for 1 channel. In this (and many other scope in same class) two channel maximum samplerate is 500MSa/s. 1 sample every 2ns. can not measure anything with better resolution. Yes, if single shot real time.  Averaging give more. So there must not be human made error in sample and store. Then take care also analog channel itself. This your thermal drift is littlebit strange - why?  (averaging is sometimes nice becouse system have noise and it give some advantage for accuracy. In theoretical ideal signal and sampling this advantage can not get. There are many nice solutions in some systems where adding noise to system give more accuracy ;) )

But in this Hantek case it looks really just like bug. (they have forget..or make some mistake in FW upgrade) I can only quess that memory and capture construction is so made that channels can very easy shift in time axis related to each others.

"Of course you can create a small loop with RG316 cable for ch1 data and setup trigger on ch2 "

why change Trig to CH2. No need.

If delay CH1 signal before scope there is no any reason to think trigger source! It simply means that CH2 signal come earlier as compared to CH1.  Trig do not mean anything. Only meaning is signal timing... becouse we can not put signal travel more fast we can only delay.

I think it do not need picture where  I shift CH2 signal to left so that it is same as CH1 only adding delay to CH1 signal and also so that there is no matter if Trig is CH1 or 2. ;)


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: nukie on March 22, 2011, 11:40:26 pm

If you use scope in high temperature. Room temperature high or  if air do not flow very free around scope.

Maybe it is good in this case install small fan inside scope. (no need full speed, you can reduce nominal speed example x0.7 - 0.9 (depends fan type and quality) and you get low noise and it still helps airflow inside scope. It need only small extra amount of air. (example double speed if compare natural free air flow and exance rate)  In this case I recommend fan take outside air and flow is to inside. In this case you can put small filter before fan so all dirty do not free travel to inside.  In normal 22Celsius room temp some components work quite high temp. Clearly over 70C case temperature. It is not good to go any more high. They may last but maybe fail rate start grow.

I agree with adding a fan! I am building a 8 channel temperature logging with DS1721 to measure 'in case' temperature of the different parts. I will report back in a few weeks. I can feel the heat from the top of the case, my room temperature is only 24c. I bet the parts in it especially the caps in the smps area are choking to death.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 23, 2011, 01:04:51 am

... are choking to death.


actually all components are still within specs, but a slow running fan will of course reduce the potential stress.
If you have good quality fan you can use temp / speed control, if you use a cheap one it is enough to replace the 7812
on power board by 7805 (and run a 12V fan with 5V).

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: bilko on March 23, 2011, 01:59:44 am

actually all components are still within specs, but a slow running fan will of course reduce the potential stress.
If you have good quality fan you can use temp / speed control, if you use a cheap one it is enough to replace the 7812
on power board by 7805 (and run a 12V fan with 5V).



Does anybody have the details of the fan (size ?) and are there any pictures of the mod ?
What about using a filter and running the fan to suck the air in ?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 23, 2011, 03:15:25 am
Does anybody have the details of the fan (size ?) and are there any pictures of the mod ?
What about using a filter and running the fan to suck the air in ?

Just open your case , 4 screws, you'll see all your options. believe it's 55mm fan or maybe 50mm and 55mm mount holes.

I'm using larger size, 65 or 75mm fan, and mount only one hole by a long screw to extend fan to the middle of the case, also changed to L7805CV  to power this 12v fan. All these are for reduce noise and creat more air flow.

For this DSO, I'm not very worry about power supply part. It's just a normal switching psu. Anything goes wrong can be easy fixed. What I'm worried are those two BGA chips, BGA+lead-free stuff creat most electronic gabage today. I'll add some heat sinks on them later.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ianryeng on March 23, 2011, 05:54:59 am
Just bought a DSO-5062B  ;D

As a side note at least currently you can get the english version with shipping for $450 while they last (25% off and no I have no connection to them its just a good deal)
https://www.mortoncontrols.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=58_51&products_id=450 (https://www.mortoncontrols.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=58_51&products_id=450)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: slburris on March 23, 2011, 03:06:45 pm
Another option for US buyers is

http://www.thefamousbrandsoutlet.com/test-measurement-instruments.html?cat=50 (http://www.thefamousbrandsoutlet.com/test-measurement-instruments.html?cat=50)

Don't be put off by their weird name.  I saw a recommendation
for them on rcgroups about a year ago, and picked up the
Hantek DSO-1060 handheld scope and have been quite happy with
it.

At the time, they didn't carry any of Hantek's bench scopes, but that appears
to have changed.

Still, the Morton Controls seems to be a deal!

Scott
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ianryeng on March 24, 2011, 01:29:31 am
The only thing that I've noticed that I don't like so far is the max 5V/div. Why not 10/dev...at least that way I could work on a 240V system without needing to buy a 100x probe... 
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 24, 2011, 02:15:42 pm
The only thing that I've noticed that I don't like so far is the max 5V/div. Why not 10/dev...at least that way I could work on a 240V system without needing to buy a 100x probe... 


turn to x10, you got 50v/div.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ianryeng on March 24, 2011, 03:30:05 pm
Thank you for the response, I certainly appreciate and I should have been more specific that I meant AC systems.

240VAC with 50v/div doesn't fit with the default setup (unlike the Rigol which will display 10V/div, this was a big issue for us when we bought a LeCroy WaveAce as a second scope in my office and it only supported 5V/div max)

680Vpk-pk/50V = 14 divisions minimum meaning that you would need 10V/div and use 7 of the eight available on the screen to display the waveform.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 24, 2011, 04:15:16 pm
Thank you for the response, I certainly appreciate and I should have been more specific that I meant AC systems.

240VAC with 50v/div doesn't fit with the default setup (unlike the Rigol which will display 10V/div, this was a big issue for us when we bought a LeCroy WaveAce as a second scope in my office and it only supported 5V/div max)

680Vpk-pk/50V = 14 divisions minimum meaning that you would need 10V/div and use 7 of the eight available on the screen to display the waveform.

Guess you mean you need 10v/div at 1x probe. then you'll need 100x probes for sure on this scope. Or get some scopes support higher input voltage, like 1000vpp at 10x. usually this type DSO accurate at lower voltage. higher frequence, lower voltage. 
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: enclis on March 24, 2011, 11:10:09 pm
Finally got my DST1062B from taobao. Easily upgraded it to DST1202. Dont run any benchmark tests on the edge of the bandwidth. There are only 60MHz probes out of the box, so I need to buy another to take appropriate tests. Everything is great!  8) , but I cant connect my oscilloscope to PC via usb. I'm using TTScope 2.0.0.4 software that i've downloaded from Tekway official site but it doesn't work   :'( . And I cant get svg data to my USB flash greater than 40k points >:(, I want to get 512k and 1M points!

Thanks a lot to all forum members in this topic, especially tinhead.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 25, 2011, 01:05:28 am
Finally got my DST1062B from taobao. Easily upgraded it to DST1202. Dont run any benchmark tests on the edge of the bandwidth. There are only 60MHz probes out of the box, so I need to buy another to take appropriate tests. Everything is great!  8) , but I cant connect my oscilloscope to PC via usb. I'm using TTScope 2.0.0.4 software that i've downloaded from Tekway official site but it doesn't work   :'( . And I cant get svg data to my USB flash greater than 40k points >:(, I want to get 512k and 1M points!

Thanks a lot to all forum members in this topic, especially tinhead.

use the software from Hantek website or chinese Tekway website .. there is 2.0.5 too, http://www.tekwayins.com/pic/TTScope.rar (http://www.tekwayins.com/pic/TTScope.rar)
no idea why they not yet copied to the english website.

and yeah, there are no drivers for Win 7 64bit ...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: enclis on March 25, 2011, 01:11:52 pm

use the software from Hantek website or chinese Tekway website .. there is 2.0.5 too, http://www.tekwayins.com/pic/TTScope.rar (http://www.tekwayins.com/pic/TTScope.rar)


Software is works but I still can't get svg data greater than 40k points. In this case PC software is useless for me. Can you get 512k or 1M points out of your oscilloscope?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 25, 2011, 01:17:33 pm
Software is works but I still can't get svg data greater than 40k points. In this case PC software is useless for me. Can you get 512k or 1M points out of your oscilloscope?

with firmware version 2.6.1 the 1M data export is working, with other versions not. It has been confirmed as bug and it will be fixed soon.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on March 25, 2011, 04:09:42 pm
Software is works but I still can't get svg data greater than 40k points. In this case PC software is useless for me. Can you get 512k or 1M points out of your oscilloscope?

with firmware version 2.6.1 the 1M data export is working, with other versions not. It has been confirmed as bug and it will be fixed soon.

mine works  to 512k, but not 1M.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 25, 2011, 04:21:24 pm
mine works  to 512k, but not 1M.

that's new for me, which fw version ?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: enclis on March 25, 2011, 08:57:53 pm
with firmware version 2.6.1 the 1M data export is working, with other versions not. It has been confirmed as bug and it will be fixed soon.

Will wait eagerly for bug fix.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: dfnr2 on March 27, 2011, 05:32:12 pm
Hello,  I'm posting here since this thread seems to be the gathering place for Hantek/Tekway owners, and my query relates to the scope performance.  I am seeing an artifact at higher sample rates; specifically, distortion of the waveform which is independent of amplitude (and thus of SNR relative to broadband background).  I've attached a screen shot of a capture of a 150 MHz signal, with sinc interpolation.  On the second image (taken in the dual-window zoom mode, which doesn't do the sinc interpolation) shows all the samples within the correct amplitude range.  For both, sample memory is set to 4K, with single channel active.

I believe that the variation in amplitute of the reconstructed sinewave is due to error in timing of the sampling at the highest sample rates, most likey due to imperfect interleaving of the DACS, but possibly just due to clock jitter. The effect is much smaller at lower rates, and with lower bandwidth signals (which don't change as much between samples, so small sample timing errors aren't as noticeable).  The question is:  Do the Tekway/Hantek scopes typically exhibit this kind of error at the highest sampling rates, or do I have a bad unit?

If anyone here has access to a clean 150 MHz sine wave source, can you try the same acquisition, and report whether or not you see the same thing?  Results from more that one person/scope would be helpful.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on March 28, 2011, 04:33:04 pm
I don't own the Hantek, but a Rigol 1052e.  Try switching your scope from real time to equivalent time sampling, does the sine wave appear better?  The Hantek does 1Gs/s for ~ <= 100MHz with fidelity, but at 150 MHz, you're more likely to see sampling related errors.

If these artifacts were present below 100 MHz, I'd more suspect the Hantek hardware.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RobertB on March 28, 2011, 04:34:21 pm
Hi all!

I received my Hantek DSO5062B today - and from the short glimpse I've got so far I am VERY satisfied - Tank you very much for your work and recommendation tinman!

Just after the DOA-Check I "dismantled" my new gadged - just to find a PCB I can't remember having seen in this thread so far (see attachment)

There is a footprint for a Ethernet jack, for speaker and microphone jack and finally for a micro-SD!

I have not yet tried to "unlock" 200 MHz operation, just wanted to get a quick response on the PCB shot.

BR
Robert
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 28, 2011, 05:04:19 pm

 just to find a PCB I can't remember having seen in this thread so far (see attachment)

There is a footprint for a Ethernet jack, for speaker and microphone jack and finally for a micro-SD!

I have not yet tried to "unlock" 200 MHz operation, just wanted to get a quick response on the PCB shot.

and you got PM now ...

The re-design seems to be more than only few wires between FPGA/SoC ... that's completly new device.
Luckily still the same soft-design (meaning Linux and hack).

These jacks, hmm, good question for what reason they are, as i remember Pascal (from Elec3i) said somethign about external battery.




Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 28, 2011, 05:49:51 pm
Robert B

Extremely interesting. I just waiting DSO5102B  before end of this week.... I hope...

Some weeks ago they was with "old" PCB.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RobertB on March 28, 2011, 07:26:33 pm
Hi!

You're welcome! If any is missing, reply within the next 30min or so because after that I want to reassemble my new gadged... Already costed my one heat sink from the ADC mounted on the backside...

I have retrofitted the missing USB Host connector - guess it will work. For the Ethernet I doubt that the jack will be enough - see the pictures.

Resized versions attached, Link to full res: http://rapidshare.com/files/454830015/Hantek.rar (http://rapidshare.com/files/454830015/Hantek.rar)

BR
Robert

btw: found the EEPROM: Microchip 24AA64 64K I2C™ Serial EEPROM with write protect
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RobertB on March 28, 2011, 08:55:15 pm
I must be out of my mind for doing this, but

I plugged in a USB Flash Drive in the retrofitted USB Host connector:

"usbctl: zombie --> [reset] --> default. Device in default state."

So, no luck - but the good news: Everything else still works! ;-)

Next, instead of measuring some test-signals:

The 28-pin footprint shown in P1170503 is connected to the "PHONE1" jack footprint. After some investigation in the Mini2440 schematics (http://www.friendlyarm.net/dl.php?file=mini2440_schematic.zip (http://www.friendlyarm.net/dl.php?file=mini2440_schematic.zip)) it is for 100% sure that this can be used to retrofit a UDA1340: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/philips/UDA1340.pdf (http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/philips/UDA1340.pdf)

Looking at the SDIO Pinout I am sure we just have to find the right SD-slot. Unfortunately, the buzzer right in front blocks changing the SD-card, so I guess I will go for some flat ribbon cable... Only thing missing could be the missing pullups.

I still can't find a way to see how a Davicom DM9000 or another Ethernet-PHY could be attached to the board to make use of the ethernet-jack. So to make a sophisticated guess I say the ethernet-part is implemented in the FPGA I can't identify due to its heatsink...


BR
Robert
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 28, 2011, 10:00:36 pm
thanks Robert for the pics!

The not assembled SSOP28 IC between NAND and 74HC4053 (USB mux) is UDA1341TS (connected via IIS).
The SOP8 is an amp for headphones, P1/P2 connectors nears that IC are routed to these phones/mis connectors too (near USB client).
No idea for what a DSO need audio codec, but who cares, this is in principle Linux box with "DSO functionality" so what.

Same for SD card (ok, it can be used as additional memory/boot device), on the old hw revision the SDIO port is
not routed.

So in principle Hantek was nice enough to route all these unused pins to what-they-designed-for.
Probably they will never use sound on DSO, but we can. SD card is nice for hacks too.

Other changes/not assembled parts:
- some status LEDs, but that's not new
- new 60pin 1.27 pitch I/O header  - very nice, much more addons possible than with the old one.
- on bottom side for different DAC IC (instead of LTC2601 on the top side)
- diag connectors ??? within input stage, hmm (lol, input stage open-detector?)
- U12 on bottom, J4 on top and all these parts around J4 (abouve J700 on top) - hmm (i saw that parts
combination somewhere near FPGA, think ...)
- opamp TLV272 replaced by TLV274, no function change, just some savings
- USB mux with 4053 (S3C2440 is having host/client or 2 x host USB ports, the "mux" is probably detecting VUSB
voltage on USB client and swithing off the second USB host on the front side)
- on bottom side really ugly soldered single gate 74hc04 with some resistors as jumpers, let me gues - for EEPROM WP ?
- polyfuse for both front USB ports (good idea)
- "RJ45 jack" routed probably to the long I/O header, so LAN addonboard will be plugged there.
- on the bottom side 6 x 0ohm "jumpers" block connected to FPGA, hmm (model detection?)
- on the bottom side some not assembled resistors/transistor, routed to S3C2440, no idea what for.
- input channels JFET changed to ??? (i can't read the device marking)

Many changes, especially these "jumpers" are interessting for future hacking.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 28, 2011, 10:13:37 pm
I must be out of my mind for doing this, but

I plugged in a USB Flash Drive in the retrofitted USB Host connector:

"usbctl: zombie --> [reset] --> default. Device in default state."

So, no luck - but the good news: Everything else still works! ;-)

this should work, normally the host/device usb port is jumpered (like in attached pic), however you have to tell the S3C2440 what
will be used. The 4053 seems to be connected to them (from what i can see) to act as "mux", or in detector.



Next, instead of measuring some test-signals:

The 28-pin footprint shown in P1170503 is connected to the "PHONE1" jack footprint. After some investigation in the Mini2440 schematics (http://www.friendlyarm.net/dl.php?file=mini2440_schematic.zip (http://www.friendlyarm.net/dl.php?file=mini2440_schematic.zip)) it is for 100% sure that this can be used to retrofit a UDA1340: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/philips/UDA1340.pdf (http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/philips/UDA1340.pdf)

Looking at the SDIO Pinout I am sure we just have to find the right SD-slot. Unfortunately, the buzzer right in front blocks changing the SD-card, so I guess I will go for some flat ribbon cable... Only thing missing could be the missing pullups.

yep, that's what i found out too.

I still can't find a way to see how a Davicom DM9000 or another Ethernet-PHY could be attached to the board to make use of the ethernet-jack. So to make a sophisticated guess I say the ethernet-part is implemented in the FPGA I can't identify due to its heatsink...

Hantek told me DM9000, and yes it would be (like once designed by Tekway) a addon-pcb connected to i/o header. From mechanical point of view
the new hw revision is designed much better (RJ45 jack mounted to big PCB instead to "weak" addon).

But hey, you have the hw there, you can easily check if the RJ45 jack (on these parts around it on bottom PCB side) are connected to
the long I/O port.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RobertB on March 28, 2011, 10:24:53 pm
Hi!

No luck with the micro-SD... Soldered a flat ribbon cable to the footprints and to a micro-SD slot. No matter if I insert the start before power up or after powering up - nothing happens. The resistors on the bottom side of the pcb are fine - so I guess software is not capable?

BR
Robert
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 28, 2011, 10:39:12 pm
Hi!

No luck with the micro-SD... Soldered a flat ribbon cable to the footprints and to a micro-SD slot. No matter if I insert the start before power up or after powering up - nothing happens. The resistors on the bottom side of the pcb are fine - so I guess software is not capable?

BR
Robert

of course it need to be enabled, via sd card driver or evt. via direct GPIO access, but it is good to have it routed to the S3C2440.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RobertB on March 29, 2011, 12:37:14 am
Yes, looks like the same (missing piece of software) for the USB-mux. Soldered the resistor I supposed to be the signaling pin in (2.2k, just to make sure not to destroy the S3C2440). Consequently it changes from approx. 0V to 3.3V if there is a cable plugged in on the back (USB B jack) and therefore the xY1 are routed to xZ connecting the USB B jack with the S3C2440.

Wasn't able to figure out how exactly the 1.5k pullup works. The missing resistor is kind of unclear, as it connects 3Y1 and 3Z. Guess 3Z is routed to the S3C2440 as well and gets switched to 3Y1 is the cable is inserted. I have no clue why this is switched at all as this can always be the case even when using the USB A jack at the front (does not harm anything). Maybe because of this there is a bypass as well.

Is there any tool to check what pin toggles when the USB A cable is connected/disconnected? Maybe it would be possible to reconfigure the S3C2440 on the fly...

BR
Robert
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 29, 2011, 03:27:09 am
it works very simple - these 3 input selectors (4053 pin 9,10,11) are connected via 10k resistor (near usb client jack) to VUSB, cap to GND (giving some delay) and missing resistor to unknown GPIO port.
This missing resistor (that's where you soldered the 2.2k) is used (i gues) only if the firmware is forced switching the USB client off and USB Host2 on (no matter if there is VUSB on USB client).
Without this resistor (there is currently no support in firmware for this anyway - btw, what fw version is istalled on your DSO?) this circuit still works, but only via VUSB detection.
By default 4052 is selecting X inputs, so the second host is enabled if no VUSB. If VUSB exists, 4052 is switching USB signals to USB client and the USB_Enable (actually another one GPIO port)
to the 1.5k resistor (which is soldered near USB client jack and routed to 3Y1). This signal (actually the 1.5 resistor between D- and the GPIO port) is necessary to allow proper USB client functionality.
The 3rd resistor between 3Y1 and 3Z is probably for hysteresis.


To monitor GPIO port status there are 3 ways
- boundary scan over JTAG (which is always the best way)
BSDL files are available on Samsung website, but if you have no hardware and knowledge how to use it, then you lost.

- via test app loaded instead of linux.
There are many such test applications for S3C2440 to show the GPIO port status (some over USB which didn't make sense here, others via shell/uart),
but you have to compile them and load to NAND or even better to memory over JTAG.

- via what already on the DSO
Normally you can read GPIO under linux, you will need an GPIO driver and application calling such driver.
Luckily there is such driver availble on HanTekway DSOs - /dso/driver/dso-iobank.ko and there is application calling this driver /dso/app/setio
The "setio" is being used by default like that /dso/app/setio g12 o 1 (where G12 is GPG12 port/pin, "o" is output and "1" the actual data which will be written to that port/pin).
However this app can be user like /dso/app/setio g12 i to display the port value.

So all you need is to connect via UART to the Linux shell, kill the dso.exe by ctrl+c, to connect 3.3V via 2k to the unknown GPIO pin (i mean the one where you soldered 2.2k resistor)
and monitor what changed ... lot of ports/pins to monitor, but you can write a script to loop until change and display what changed.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RobertB on March 29, 2011, 10:59:11 am
it works very simple - these 3 input selectors (4053 pin 9,10,11) are connected via 10k resistor (near usb client jack) to VUSB, cap to GND (giving some delay) and missing resistor to unknown GPIO port.
Yes, this is exactly what I've said and showed in the picture.

This missing resistor (that's where you soldered the 2.2k) is used (i gues) only if the firmware is forced switching the USB client off and USB Host2 on (no matter if there is VUSB on USB client).
Without this resistor (there is currently no support in firmware for this anyway - btw, what fw version is istalled on your DSO?) this circuit still works, but only via VUSB detection.

I don't agree on this. The missing resistor connects to an INPUT, this is where the USB-driver should look at to reconfigure the USB core on the S3C2440. Working against the 4.7k/10k voltage divider of VBUS of USB A jack would work somehow, but would be a design flaw. This is supported by measurements I did when the DSO was running: you get ~0V when no USB-A is in (10k to GND) on BOTH sides (so not even a pullup) and ~3.3V when connected (voltage divider to VBUS) on BOTH sides (so again no pulldown). The pin is not driven at all - this will be the pin to consider for reconfiguring the S3C2440. By the way, I was looking at the Mini2440 - I saw somebody asking about the SEL_USBPAD bit (http://www.armkits.com/download/s3c2440.pdf (http://www.armkits.com/download/s3c2440.pdf)) but I doubt this is enough for reconfiguration. Never saw somebody telling it actually works. To be honest, it is of course more tempting to stick in a small 4-port-hub and avoid the hassle.

By default 4052 is selecting X inputs, so the second host is enabled if no VUSB. If VUSB exists, 4052 is switching USB signals to USB client and the USB_Enable (actually another one GPIO port)
to the 1.5k resistor (which is soldered near USB client jack and routed to 3Y1). This signal (actually the 1.5 resistor between D- and the GPIO port) is necessary to allow proper USB client functionality.

To be precise, by default it connects/selects xY0 with xZ. The jacks' Dx lines are connected to the xY1/2 pins, the S3C2440 Dx lines are connected to the xZ pins.  

The 3rd resistor between 3Y1 and 3Z is probably for hysteresis.

I don't think so. To do this, it would have to have a connection to Sx. This is not the case. I guess 3Z is connected to the pin controlling the 1.5k pullup in the original design. By soldering a zero-ohm resistor to this location you ALWAYS have the pullup-control connected to the USB A jack. Using the actual configuration, its only connected if VBUS is applied. I guess 3Y0 (default) is open (so the 1.5k is flowing on one side in default state).

To monitor GPIO port status there are 3 ways
- boundary scan over JTAG (which is always the best way)
BSDL files are available on Samsung website, but if you have no hardware and knowledge how to use it, then you lost.

- via test app loaded instead of linux.
There are many such test applications for S3C2440 to show the GPIO port status (some over USB which didn't make sense here, others via shell/uart),
but you have to compile them and load to NAND or even better to memory over JTAG.

- via what already on the DSO
Normally you can read GPIO under linux, you will need an GPIO driver and application calling such driver.
Luckily there is such driver availble on HanTekway DSOs - /dso/driver/dso-iobank.ko and there is application calling this driver /dso/app/setio
The "setio" is being used by default like that /dso/app/setio g12 o 1 (where G12 is GPG12 port/pin, "o" is output and "1" the actual data which will be written to that port/pin).
However this app can be user like /dso/app/setio g12 i to display the port value.

So all you need is to connect via UART to the Linux shell, kill the dso.exe by ctrl+c, to connect 3.3V via 2k to the unknown GPIO pin (i mean the one where you soldered 2.2k resistor)
and monitor what changed ... lot of ports/pins to monitor, but you can write a script to loop until change and display what changed.

I will do this when I have time. Have a Segger J-Link, so this is not a problem at all. More of a problem is that we don't have 2.00mm headers on stock in the lab. I don't like to solder plain cable to this socket. I think I will tackle this when upgrading the analog parts, because I don't want to srew/unscrew the frontpanel frequently (the threads in the plastic get stale way to fast even if you're cautious).

Quite probable I will try to get some WiFi-stick running with the DSO to allow ssh (dropbear?) access to avoid the hassle of designing an addon-card we don't have to connections for. I think it takes a broken unit to unsolder the BGAs and "beep" all connections. - And I prefer it won't be mine... ;-)

So, does anybody has some kind of toolchain ready? Some kind of BSP available? What about triggering Hantek/Tekway or - if they are not nice, which I don't think - let FSF making them releasing the relevant sources?

BR
Robert
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 29, 2011, 11:44:37 am
I don't agree on this. The missing resistor connects to an INPUT, this is where the USB-driver should look at to reconfigure the USB core on the S3C2440. Working against the 4.7k/10k voltage divider of VBUS of USB A jack would work somehow, but would be a design flaw. This is supported by measurements I did when the DSO was running: you get ~0V when no USB-A is in (10k to GND) on BOTH sides (so not even a pullup) and ~3.3V when connected (voltage divider to VBUS) on BOTH sides (so again no pulldown). The pin is not driven at all - this will be the pin to consider for reconfiguring the S3C2440. By the way, I was looking at the Mini2440 - I saw somebody asking about the SEL_USBPAD bit (http://www.armkits.com/download/s3c2440.pdf (http://www.armkits.com/download/s3c2440.pdf)) but I doubt this is enough for reconfiguration. Never saw somebody telling it actually works. To be honest, it is of course more tempting to stick in a small 4-port-hub and avoid the hassle.

what Input ? Thie is an SoC I/O port, so you can configure for input or output function. As it is not configured right now by currenty firmware it is acting probably "as input".

Design flaw, hmm, depends. Let's imagine there is option in firmware to switch between "backside client and frontside host", with warnning to the user - in that case there will be no 4.7/10k voltage divider, and even if user plugs in
wrong port nothing will get destroyed. So it is cheap but working solution (however with user asistance).

The SEL_USBPAD is working, however by default most s3c2440 boards developers are too lazy to drive proper drivers, they instaling hard jumpers or even better USB hub chips.

I don't think so. To do this, it would have to have a connection to Sx. This is not the case. I guess 3Z is connected to the pin controlling the 1.5k pullup in the original design. By soldering a zero-ohm resistor to this location you ALWAYS have the pullup-control connected to the USB A jack. Using the actual configuration, its only connected if VBUS is applied. I guess 3Y0 (default) is open (so the 1.5k is flowing on one side in default state).

maybe, was only a gues. The 1.5k is only necessary for usb client port detection.

I will do this when I have time. Have a Segger J-Link, so this is not a problem at all. More of a problem is that we don't have 2.00mm headers on stock in the lab. I don't like to solder plain cable to this socket. I think I will tackle this when upgrading the analog parts, because I don't want to srew/unscrew the frontpanel frequently (the threads in the plastic get stale way to fast even if you're cautious).
j-link works, but don't forget to save NAND dump with OOB blocks in case you wish to restore it some day.

Is it 2mm or 1.27mm header? Looks like 1.27 on pic, but maybe i just saw the dimensions wrong.

Quite probable I will try to get some WiFi-stick running with the DSO to allow ssh (dropbear?) access to avoid the hassle of designing an addon-card we don't have to connections for. I think it takes a broken unit to unsolder the BGAs and "beep" all connections. - And I prefer it won't be mine... ;-)

There is 2.6.13 linux installed (i think, still no idea what firmware you have and what linux version ..see my PM), WiFi-stick like VNT6656 based might work but there is some effort in driver compilation for
2.6.13 kernel. SSH might work too, but telnet is already there, so enough for me.

Beep all conections, this is what i did for the whole DSO. As i had to replace the SoC i shot picture of it, FPGA scanned via boundary scan. But sure, that was for the old hardware revision, for the new you have
we can start from scratch (almost, input and trigger part are same, but conected to different FPGA pins)


So, does anybody has some kind of toolchain ready? Some kind of BSP available? What about triggering Hantek/Tekway or - if they are not nice, which I don't think - let FSF making them releasing the relevant sources?

i know this thread is long, the information about is somewhere in it. To make it shorter - no, no toolchain available for now. You have to build your own, QQ2440 with 2.6.13 is good starting point.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on March 29, 2011, 04:47:40 pm
Russification Tekway DST1102b (or DST1202B?  ;D ) is over!

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1011/tekway1.png) (http://img849.imageshack.us/i/tekway1.png/)


(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1171/tekway2.png) (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/tekway2.png/)


Posted in Tekway, and invited them to a Russian.lan.  They even failed to respond...  :-\
Perhaps they are not interested in the Russian market.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 29, 2011, 05:47:07 pm
hey Igor, beautiful!

Tekway maybe not really present, but Hantek have some russian distributor, so i'm sure they will be happy about the translation.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on March 30, 2011, 02:14:59 am
Thanks, Tinhead.  Your assessment of my modest work very important for me. I know Hantek's distributors in Russia. People who aren't very nice chat. Sorry.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ccatt on March 30, 2011, 11:23:19 am
Happy every day!Sorry to trouble you, but I need your help.

My DSO firmware version is 2.6.3,
 by measurement,the last pin of  UART  is 3.3v on the picture,not 0v. if USB UART converter 's "gnd "to the last pin of  UART in DSO , can't  this instrument  be damaged ?  now  rx0 : 0.1v   rx1: 0v

just buy H-JTAG and USB UART converter ,   but the  USB UART converter not  work,

I felt very strange: fw2dump.zip can dump 3   files(boot.bin kernel.bin root.bin  ),but  fw_backupV3.zip  can't.

If only use H-JTAG, What should I do?  How do you define the offset of the 3 file  .

How do I  downgrade to 2.6.2 or  lower?

(dst1kb_2.06.3_1202b_fact(110118.0).up  ) IS THIS ONLY FOR TEKWAY DST1202B?
 
How did the "bin" file compile or decompile?
 
What's changed, Where's changed, Every version firmware?

And finally analyze this, What will I need to access and read for this course?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RobertB on March 30, 2011, 01:10:29 pm
Hi!

Linux version is still 2.6.13. So this is actually totally outdated. I even had problems finding linux-2.6.13-QQ2440-xxxxxx.tgz, which seems to be a working kernel for the mini2440 board. If anybody happens to have hold on this, an upload would be highly appreciated.

My firmware is exactly (even the "build-numbers") what is distributed right now by Hantek as an update.

The JTAG-header is 2.00mm, the 60- (64?) pin IO-connector is 1.27mm.

I am a little concerned about the old kernel. While it should be possible to compile the sd-driver supplied with qq2440, any new drivers will be hard. For example, compat-wireless only supports >= 2.6.24, compat-wireless-old supports 2.6.21. So it will be very hard to get for example AR9170usb to work (or any other recent USB wlan stick).

Further, I was not able to get hold of any hint on the actual kernel config used in the DSO.


BR
Robert
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on March 30, 2011, 02:43:21 pm
I'm not concerned about Linux version. It is embedded linux and for user it is Oscilloscope (not linux entertainment machine).  User do not need even know about system behind display and knobs. It works and linux version do not make any problem afaik. Of course if people want make some modifications and if he want make it as game box or tv or music box he need use 2.6.13 compaible things.

If I'm concerned something it is analog channel and ADC system design and quality. But then I remember - if I think this quality... it is <1k$ scope and in this class it is really unexpected good.

Building guality (main board) seems littlebit better now in these new HW. (I have look only some old and new units so I can tell only these units what I have checked)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on March 30, 2011, 02:58:23 pm
just buy H-JTAG and USB UART converter , but the  USB UART converter not  work
I broke into the brains oscilloscope through such devays:

(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4323/17465090.jpg) (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/17465090.jpg/)

http://cgi.ebay.com/USB2-0-RS232-TTL-Converter-Module-PL2303-4pcs-cable-/270726085956?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f08883d44 (http://cgi.ebay.com/USB2-0-RS232-TTL-Converter-Module-PL2303-4pcs-cable-/270726085956?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f08883d44)

You can apply the service cord from your old mobile phone.

(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/2097/pl2303pinout2.jpg) (http://img812.imageshack.us/i/pl2303pinout2.jpg/)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on March 30, 2011, 07:01:26 pm
oscilloscope through such devays:
how?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 31, 2011, 12:00:49 am
My DSO firmware version is 2.6.3,
 by measurement,the last pin of  UART  is 3.3v on the picture,not 0v. if USB UART converter 's "gnd "to the last pin of  UART in DSO , can't  this instrument  be damaged ?  now  rx0 : 0.1v   rx1: 0v

yes, +3.3V is correct, my very first picture was wring - updated already to correct pinout.

just buy H-JTAG and USB UART converter ,   but the  USB UART converter not  work,

did you set right paramters in your terminal application ? com port number (the one assigned to your usb uart adapter), 115200 8/N/1 for baudrate are proper values.
If these things are ok you should see something during DSO boot process - if not maybe txd/rxd are connected vice versa - change them and try again.

Which H-JTAG ? USB or LPT version ? It dind't really matter for function, but for speed ...

I felt very strange: fw2dump.zip can dump 3   files(boot.bin kernel.bin root.bin  ),but  fw_backupV3.zip  can't.

this is interessting, you have Tekway right ? I got no issues here on both Hantek and Tekway DSOs.
Can someone test it ? I mean this backup utility:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg35683#msg35683 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg35683#msg35683)


If only use H-JTAG, What should I do?  How do you define the offset of the 3 file  .
with H-JTAG, or actually H-Flasher software you can backup the whole NAND or restore it. If you backup via h-jtag/h-flasher you have to ensure that OOB blocks are also saved,
H-Jatg software have be default no drivers doing this - but you can find some here:

http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/163836 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/163836)

If you wish to restore a backup created with the in here posted fw_backup utility (these 3 files) you
will have to merge them to one file (together with 2 other files which ar common for all), as described here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg26926#msg26926 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg26926#msg26926)

The resulting file can be restored via h-jtag/h-flasher (with loaded s3c2440 + OOB drivers)

How do I  downgrade to 2.6.2 or  lower?

in generally if you have already 2.6.3 you can just copy the dso.exe from earlier firmware version to you DSO root file system (a good idea is to make a copy of your existing dso.exe)
You will have to connect via uart to the shell, kill dso.exe process (which will actually happens during login to the shell) , insert usb stick with the older version of dso.exe (in will get mounted automatically into /mnt
and copy the old dso.exe to /

You can download older Tekway firmware (2.5 something) and extract it to get the old dso.exe version.

Additionally to this you will have to copy language files, they are version dependant, they located in /OurLanguages directory. the older firmware version does not have these files, so it is enough to
replace the dso.exe file.

After reboot the you will be ready with downgrade.

(dst1kb_2.06.3_1202b_fact(110118.0).up  ) IS THIS ONLY FOR TEKWAY DST1202B?
[/quote]

yes, it is. Tekway and Hantek are using exact the same dso.exe, help files, almost all drivers ... but not all.
display driver ( /dso/driver/dso-lcd.ko) and logo files (/logo directory) are manufacturer dependant, so don't mix them.

How did the "bin" file compile or decompile?

which bin ? you mean the dso.exe (which is the main dso application) or you mean the 3 files created during backup ?

For the dso.exe any ARM disassembler will be good, for example IDA

For these bin files, you can't them just decompile :)

Actually the boot.bin is single boot loader, it can be decompiled with some advanced tricks, but there is no need to do it.
Kernel.bin is just a copy of kernel, sure this can be extracted but for what reason ?
root.bin is copy of the linux root file system, it is binary copy, with OOB blocks !!!, you can only mount it to other linux computer (look for how to mount YAFFS)
To get the root file system files it is easier to connect over uart to shell and create a tarball to usb stick (or even just copy if you don't care about broken permissions)


What's changed, Where's changed, Every version firmware?
ohh, this is very bad question, actually for 2.6.3 there is description of changes on chinese Tekway website, as you from china it will be easy for you to read it.
What's in older version is writen down in user manual ... unfortunately both Hantek and Tekway are not smart enough to post firmware changes (for each version) on their websites ...

If you wish to see my bug report (having some infos about what inside which version) look here :

http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/205820?page=1#2036474 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/205820?page=1#2036474)


And finally analyze this, What will I need to access and read for this course?

honestly i don't know what you mean ?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on March 31, 2011, 12:05:31 am
I'm not concerned about Linux version. It is embedded linux and for user it is Oscilloscope (not linux entertainment machine).  User do not need even know about system behind display and knobs. It works and linux version do not make any problem afaik. Of course if people want make some modifications and if he want make it as game box or tv or music box he need use 2.6.13 compaible things.

good point, i have even some other (almost new) devices having linux 2.4.18, as long they work i don't really care what kernel version on it.
Sure, 2.4.18 is overkill today, but it works.

For these HanTekway DSOs, 2.6.13 is good enough, for sure it sucks to compile drivers for new hardware line wlan-sticks, but to be very honest it is still possible with some effort.
for all "older" hardware revisions i do have working Ethernet-addon board solution, for the new hardware revision Elec3i is producing addon boards (and Hantek / Tekway as well, but no idea if they will ever sell them to existing customers - which Elec3i will do). Btw, Ele3i is also working on Wireless solution, so you can ask Pascal when they will be available.

But then I remember - if I think this quality... it is <1k$ scope and in this class it is really unexpected good.
Building guality (main board) seems littlebit better now in these new HW. (I have look only some old and new units so I can tell only these units what I have checked)

oh yeah, i saw these pictures posted by Robert and the quality seems to be now much better, overall design seems to be also optimized to remove some hardware bugs (like skew time between channels).
Even the old hardware was worth the money, the new revision is even better.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ccatt on March 31, 2011, 12:31:34 pm
 What's changed, Where's changed, Every version ?  
 Not different apparatus, is firmware(include High to low).
How to decompose the  firmware project?   IS bin ,*.up or other?How do you get the DSO.exe .Have you,the source program?
Use C Language  or  assembly language ?
How to analyze the every part of file ?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ccatt on April 05, 2011, 08:46:37 am
not answer?why? Email to me, if it is not inconvenient to you.
Because I wants to do by myself .But I can't. Have no way of doing it; not know where to start.
Finally ,Thanks a lot  .
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: SoftwareSamurai on April 05, 2011, 11:10:36 am
@ccatt

The best place to start is at the beginning of this thread. Read every post. Then you'll have the answers to your questions.

This DSO's internal workings are pretty easy to understand, so if you read this entire thread and still don't understand how this DSO works, you should move onto something else.

Please understand that I'm not trying to be mean or anything. It's just that your questions have already been answered in this thread.

FYI: No, no one here has the source code to the DSO.exe file, so we can't tell you what language it was written in. (I'll take a guess and say C, but what does that matter?)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 05, 2011, 06:59:28 pm
here we go ...

Attached LAN-Addon board files (Eagle 5.11 format) for the hardware revision 0, so all Hantek / Tekway DSOs produced
before April 1st 2011.

The Addon board is CS8900A based, the necessary Linux driver is already preinstalled in all firmware versions.
Network setup here :

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg36087#msg36087 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg36087#msg36087)

As you can see the PCB is monted with two screews/distance spacers (Harwin Spacers R30-3001102).

It works so far up to 10Mbit, no issues except the fact that the driver is not doing CS8900 reset during soft-reboot,
so for clean reboot i have to power off/on.

The attached Eagle files can be used free/commercially, so no issue if someone (from China?) wish to produce some PCBs.
I will not, just because Hantek/Tekway changed hardware revision no idea how many ppl would buy the Addon-board.

EDIT: hmm, attached files got removed while forum was migrated, so here they are again:
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 06, 2011, 11:02:20 am
Hi, folks!
First of all I would like to thank all of you for this topic. I was searching for inexpensive DSO to replace my old analog Russian 60 MHz single channel 65A that I've got for less than 60 backs 5 years ago right before I found this topic. My first choice was Rigol, but after reading of all ~28 pages, I decided to get HanTekWay. So, I've ordered mine Hantek DSO5102M (actually B) from Mr. Pioneer Huang from Aliexpress/Alibaba cause it was only available with English front panel and I'm to lazy to make one by myself. I would strongly recommend Mr. Pioneer as a honest seller and a very helpful person. I received my DSO in a perfect new condition, except the box, but I don't care. I wasn't lucky to get a "new" hardware, but I was lucky enough to get Tekway's 1.00.3 mainboard with 200 MHz ready out of the box. I can see all input stages resistors are 200 MHz version, so, seems that no soldering needed at all. The thing I definitely don't lake at all, is how it all soldered. I thinks kids in kindergarten do better! Resistors and capacitors sometimes are more than a half case out of there place, flux is everywhere and I wasn't able to wash it out with isopropyl alcohol and even with FluxOff! It's sticky and as I'm going to install fan, all this will get tons of dust. One of 4 ADC radiators is missing. Despite all that I'm satisfied with how this thing work and especially screen.
I haven't made any software/hardware upgrade before I get some very-very fast rising edge generator like http://www.i9t.net/fast-pulse/fast-pulse.html (http://www.i9t.net/fast-pulse/fast-pulse.html) to be able to see difference and good probes.
For now, I like to know is at a good idea to apply Cramolin FluxOff to wash PCBs and where SN is stored?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 06, 2011, 11:16:54 am
I wasn't lucky to get a "new" hardware, but I was lucky enough to get Tekway's 1.00.3 mainboard with 200 MHz ready out of the box. I can see all input stages resistors are 200 MHz version, so, seems that no soldering needed at all.
aha, so check the i2c.log, maybe it is rebranded 200MHz model.

The thing I definitely don't lake at all, is how it all soldered. I thinks kids in kindergarten do better! Resistors and capacitors sometimes are more than a half case out of there place, flux is everywhere and I wasn't able to wash it out with isopropyl alcohol and even with FluxOff!
take a picture of that ...

One of 4 ADC radiators is missing.
that's ugly

For now, I like to know is at a good idea to apply Cramolin FluxOff to wash PCBs and
... avoid using PVC and polysterene. ... hmm, i would use pure Isopropanol (99.7%).
Everything except the cap trimmers would have no problems with it.

where SN is stored?
in the EEPROM, located between display connector and front USB.
Additionaly you can see all model changes in the i2c.log file (directly in root dir).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: project on April 06, 2011, 11:44:33 am
For wash the flux, isopropyl alcohol won't work good. Most industrial flux, no clean flux are harder than rosin flux, not dissolved in alcohol or water too much. USE lacquer thinner, banana oil, paint thinner, acetone, xylene, all smell bad and dangerous. a little brush will work faster. take the battery off, wash two or three times, till no sticky feelling. blow dry before power it on.  I think this caused by product line wasn't adjust properly, and QA not good too.

 
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 06, 2011, 12:03:01 pm
I think this caused by product line wasn't adjust properly, and QA not good too.

^^ maybe that's why this one was suposed to be for chinese market.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 06, 2011, 12:33:06 pm
^^ maybe that's why this one was suposed to be for chinese market.
Nop. Pioneer told me it's original English, besides there were some 5062 from Pioneer with English face for another guy from Russia (not Igor).
I will post some pictures as soon as I get home and have enough time to make photos and upload them to my server.
For the missing radiator.. that sucks, I know, probably I will cut some old PC motherboard chipset radiator with Dremel, not to live it hot, seems that cause edge dramatically change during cold power on and hit up. Seems that it affect only one channel. I will make some test with prob attenuation and replay asap.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: nukie on April 06, 2011, 01:26:12 pm
Isopropyl for rosin flux.

For cleaning the "stubborn' flux, if small area, I usually use Zippo or Ventti lighter fluid. It's superb for cleaning any sticky stuff. Finish off with Isopropyl alcohol because they can leave very little white residue when dry. It's quite expensive in Australia(compared to petrol) but a bottle of 133mL goes a long way for me. This stuff is extremely flammable, well it's called lighter fluid it's used to make flame, so you better be careful when working with it. Keep it away from your solder tool and the likes.

I've been doing this for more than 15 years, no corrosion what so ever on any of my earlier FR4 boards.

Yes I smoke, I smoke rosin not nicotine.  :P
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 06, 2011, 01:37:24 pm
BTW, I know there is a shift between waveforms on first and second channel when connected to same source on old hardware version. But I was unable to reproduce that, what I'm doing wrong and how can I see that to handle such a thing in feature?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 06, 2011, 03:51:11 pm
BTW, I know there is a shift between waveforms on first and second channel when connected to same source on old hardware version. But I was unable to reproduce that, what I'm doing wrong and how can I see that to handle such a thing in feature?

depends, it can be that your unit have different firmware, or due some flying components is doing the job better (haha, not a good joke),
or just cable length caused.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 06, 2011, 06:11:06 pm
BTW, I know there is a shift between waveforms on first and second channel when connected to same source on old hardware version. But I was unable to reproduce that, what I'm doing wrong and how can I see that to handle such a thing in feature?

depends, it can be that your unit have different firmware, or due some flying components is doing the job better (haha, not a good joke),
or just cable length caused.


Mine is 2.06.3 (110118.0) which isn't latest. I'm asking because if I'm using both channels, basically I'm doing that to monitor two signal synchronously to see what's going on when one changes with the other one. So, if there is a shift, that might be a little bit tricky. So, if this is a hardware bug, it's not a 2 channel oscilloscope, it's a couple of scopes in one case. Having two channels became useless if they are not showing _exactly_same_time_ signal. You will not be able to see a hysteresis, for example.  IMHO.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 06, 2011, 06:21:21 pm
Mine is 2.06.3 (110118.0) which isn't latest. I'm asking because if I'm using both channels, basically I'm doing that to monitor two signal synchronously to see what's going on when one changes with the other one. So, if there is a shift, that might be a little bit tricky. So, if this is a hardware bug, it's not a 2 channel oscilloscope, it's a couple of scopes in one case. Having two channels became useless if they are not showing _exactly_same_time_ signal. You will not be able to see a hysteresis, for example.  IMHO.

we talk about max 1ns difference (and on new hw revision 500ps), it is not that much, but for sure not really nice.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: wjb444 on April 07, 2011, 11:39:11 am
Source 60M 4ns

Not the same as the sampling depth, the waveform will be inconsistent it? :(
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 08, 2011, 06:29:07 am
Source 60M 4ns
Not the same as the sampling depth, the waveform will be inconsistent it? :(

What's your fw version?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on April 08, 2011, 08:12:24 am
1. is 500MSa/s
2. and 3. is 400MSa/s

I have also check this with several DSO5102B's and one my opinion is: It change "fake"Sin(x)/x filtering parameters as it change samplerate. It is some kind of compromse and what you look in screen is never what is signal. For making inspections with oscilloscope is good to understand how it works and then thinking what all is between signal under test and what is signal on the screen.

Becouse there is also ADC jitter it need littlebit "overtight" filtering and result look more complex.

Draw some real signal (not theoretical) to paper and then do imagined sampling with paper and pen so that you also add some random errors -- littlebit sampling timing jitter, ADC's unbalance, amplitude analog channel noise etc. Then look best and worst case where are sampled points (And after time jitter also readjust these exatly every 1ns becouse scope "think" they are taken these times and not real times including jitter (so that timing jitter X change to amplitude Y = time jitter means variable signal amplitude modulation. (you can use ADC as modulator in some application)), and fit some curve these points... oh yes... on your paper and pen picture you see nearly exactly same ... look paper... look scope screen.. why it looks just same?

Btw, for time difference measurements with continuous signals.. use high level averaging.

There is littlebit time difference between channels if you put exactly same signal to both BNC connector so that in this point time difference is around zero. Scopes looks like CH2 is around <1ns late. (part of this is coming from time splitted ADC's ans also that maximum sampling speed is 125MSa/s in one ADC. My opinion is that it need correct in FW. 1 channel and 2 channel sampled points need small timeshift or ADC's clock signals timing need change different on 1 and 2 channel use. I hope they make correction later. (but we need remember, this is cheapest possible oscilloscope in its class and in this group it is very good)

What to do for timing... becouse there is no "skew" adjustment -- you can very easy adjust it outside. (specially becouse time difference is nearly constant if scope have warmed and stabilized.)

Measure this time difference and  make short delay line. (if coaxial have speed factor 0.8 then 1ns is 24cm)   (You need BNC M, BNG F, right lenght of 50 ohm coaxial cable) you can very easy adjust time difference under scope resolution. If CH2 is 1ns late simple put 1ns delay line to CH1. In professional good lab scopes have this adjustment. Example in Tektronix 2465 series there is adjustment (CH2 delay (if it is enabled in system cal settings for user)) Many digital scopes do this delay zeroing in the selfcal routines. It looks like this scope do not it (or it have done wrong - as many things in scope - but agen - it is extremely cheap. 10000 scope and 500 scopes are different)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 08, 2011, 10:28:16 am
HanTekWay may fix that in the feature since this bug is known and if timeshift stays constant or vary little, it's not gonna be very difficult to make a software fix. IMHO.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on April 08, 2011, 11:46:27 am
Yes.

Also they need check and fix ADC timing sequence related to 1 channel or 2 channel use and related to short and long capture memory use.

I think there is something wrong in sampling clock phasing sequence with alternate 8 phase sampling (1 channel) and parallel alternate 4 phase sampling (2 channel use). Maybe some logical misthinking or simple mistake in some FW update??

But it is difficult to analyze becouse scope have not mode where it show _real_ sampled points on the screen if use fastest horizontal speed.

In one channel use there need be 8 separate ADC so clocked that analog samples are taken 1ns steps. (there is some phasing error becouse signal attenuation do not follow logically as samplerate change.

Also there is one tinhead comment that some FW update maybe have affect somehow this 2 channel skew. maybe this is also related to this possible samplers "phasing" error.  (if example I look CH1 signal with 500MSa/s (2 channel also selected). Then I turn it 1GSa/s. It looks like nothing happend....yes more noise...  what happend if they do not sample sequentially right 8 phase.. with right timing... what if signal is parallel to all adc in 1ch mode but it do 4 + 4 phase sampling... and if 2 channel mode they do sequentially 8 phase sampling but alternately for ADC groups (juts opposite as need do). It explain very easy this 1ns skew AND also situation what looks like no any advantage if change 2 channel use to 1 channel use if look 1 channel high frequency sine.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 09, 2011, 06:25:28 pm
I thought why not to replace electrolytic capacitors as they seem to me to be low quality.
To start with PSU: there are:
1. 100 uF x 400 V (150C)
2. 47 uF x 35 V
3. 22 uF x 16 V
4. 1000 uF x 16 V (4 pc)
5. 47 uF x 25 V
6. 1000 uF x 25 V
7. 100 uF x 35 V
I would like to know is there is a way to improve PSU by increasing capacitance or voltages of this caps? Should I use low impedance/ESR caps?
Besides, there are 6 1000 uF x 10 V and 8 220 uF x 16 V and one 470 uF x 25 on mainboard, any suggestions what to with them?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 09, 2011, 07:28:47 pm
I thought why not to replace electrolytic capacitors as they seem to me to be low quality.
To start with PSU: there are:
1. 100 uF x 400 V (150C)
2. 47 uF x 35 V
3. 22 uF x 16 V
4. 1000 uF x 16 V (4 pc)
5. 47 uF x 25 V
6. 1000 uF x 25 V
7. 100 uF x 35 V
I would like to know is there is a way to improve PSU by increasing capacitance or voltages of this caps? Should I use low impedance/ESR caps?
Besides, there are 6 1000 uF x 10 V and 8 220 uF x 16 V and one 470 uF x 25 on mainboard, any suggestions what to with them?

to replace caps without exact knowldge of PSU details it will not improve anything.

Let me tell you about the power supply on these DSOs (this is for the old hardware revisions only)

The PSU is delivering some voltages, especially +5 and +3.3V are important.

Channels and Trigger Input circuit is using own LDO, the ripple is low enough to say that these are good designed.
Still, these LDOs can be replaced by better once, mit higher PSSR and lower noise. These LDOs are located on
the left side of the main PCB.

FPGA is using two additonal LDOs, they good enough (ok, AMS1117 is not the best one, but should have no influence on DSO quality)
SoC is using two additional LDOs too, same as fr FPGA - they can be replaced by better LDOs but not really important.

ADCs and part of trigger circuit is using 3.3V coming directly from the PSU, the ripple is =<  20mV. This is not the best design at all,
especially for ADC/DAC there should be something better in place.

The 3.3V on the PSU will be created from the 5V, decreased a bit by Schottky diode and followed by Fairchild KA378R33.
The Schottky diode is reducing the LDO input voltage to reduce LDOs Power Dissapation, which make sense because the heatsink
is two numbers to small anyway. The Fiarchild KA378R33 is not designed the best choice, the PSSR is low, noice level high and it is
to slow responding. A ugly chinese/cost-reduction design.

A good replacement (note, the 3.3V will be used for other voltages creation too, like FPGA, SoC, and used by all logic ICs - this is
giving some load and need fast response LDOs) could be something like LT1585, of course the ugly Schottky diode need to be removed too
as the LT1585 have a bit higher droupout voltage.

For ADCs and part of the DAC/trigger circuit where this voltage will be used a separate solution is the only way,
there are no LDOs with such low dropout volage (well, there are some , but initial min. voltage is higher than these 3.3V)

As the 3.3V will be anyway generated from the 5V, we can take the 5V and generate proper 3.0V for ADCs,DAC and trigger IC separatelly.
Luckily each part of affected circuit can be easily disonnected from the 3.3V - by removing of the ind. filters on the main pcb.
Top side ADCs are then separated from bottom side ADCs and from DAC/Trigger. Each these groups is using not more
than 90mA (two or single chan, 1GSs, highest resolution, highest memory tested, with high loaded input and ext. trigger)
so with 3 low noise/high PSSR LDOs a really clean and stable voltage can be generated - for example with LP5900SD-3.0

If you look on the Instek DSOs (which is the original design for input/ADCs circuit used later by Hantek/Tekway/Rigol), you will see that
the power supply is generated in proper way, every ADC have all recommended decoupling caps, ADCs having own LDOs and so on.
Then Rigol - they removed some decoupling caps and started with the crap voltage thing (one 3.3V, a cheap low ESR caps),
and then Hantek/Tekway - they removed again some (well, only one per ADC) decoupling caps ... is it really bad ? Well sure,
far away from what AD is recomending for the AD9288, is it working ? Sure, but not the best design.
Why this happens ? Well, as EE you can design nice things, but then you have still to sell them, so it was probably cost reducion thing
afterall. For an EE no a big deal to create proper voltages (or solder 8 decoupling caps like i did), but i don't like it.

To be very honest i recognized this "issues" first as i was testing better (from overclocking and SNR point of view) ADCs (AD9218), they need better power supply and as i started
to trace i found out "ups, someone was too smart and removed too much parts".
Probably Hantek will answer "no our EE tested everything and 20mV ripple is not too much for ADCs" :P

Anyway, even with additional decoupling caps or better 3.3V voltage, i don't think it will have a real big influence
on the skew time issue, or warm-up drift or noise level by 1GSs (but maybe i'm wrong).

I have here tons of high quality LDOs/parts, in a free "minute" i will test it a bit and report back. So for now, don't replace caps as they
not a real issue.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 09, 2011, 07:50:55 pm
Huh, this device looks like a DIY kit :) But we can squeeze more out of it, I think. Unfortunately, I'm not a PSU designer at all. and when it comes to switching PSUs - hands up.
BTW, I have no clue what the f... fluxe the use, but acetone did nothing, same sticky surface. And it very-very hard to wash it because outputs are long.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 09, 2011, 08:08:33 pm
Huh, this device looks like a DIY kit :) But we can squeeze more out of it, I think. Unfortunately, I'm not a PSU designer at all. and when it comes to switching PSUs - hands up.

hehe, not really DIY.

This is the common problem, you as EE design something, it works good, they you boss will tell you "reduce the price".
So where you will start ? Well, some caps here and there, smaller heatsink and schotky-diode instead, cheaper LDO (AMS instead of better brand - makes 1USD per LDO, or this Fairchild LDO instead of a good one makes 6 USD).
This is not actually Hantek designers fault, that's actually created by us - we expecting to get nice DSO for small price. Brand manufacturers like Tektronix/Agilent probably don't care, everything what necessary will
be implemented, the customer have to pay anyway x-time the parts value. Chinese manufacturers can't just do the same, they have to reduce the revenue and price, because if not you will not buy it ...

Is this PSU "issue" tragic ? No, actually not. The overall DSO design is good, the PSU "issue" can be easily fixed for 10USD total, so not a big deal. Do i like it ? No, not really, but i haven't expected such good quality
as i bought all these chinese DSOs - and to be very honest at that time (and still today) Tekway (and now Hantek too) was the best choice.

The ancient Rigol screen is just ugly, low framerate, low cost DSP, same PSU "issues" as Hantek. The UNI-Ts are even worse, cheap high noise ADCs, cheap display (even these new with pseudo bright screen),
tons of issues in firmware never fixed, support - no not at all. Siglent/Atten - well, they only fixed on "sell", they don't care about customer feedback. From design perspective somewhere between UNI-T and Rigol.


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 09, 2011, 09:57:56 pm
I was able to hook up there with my USB<->USART FT232R based board and take a look at what inside. For thous folks who are using *nix on "big" puter, your command will be (make sure to replace /dev/ttyUSB0 with what you have):
Code: [Select]
cu -l /dev/ttyUSB0 -s 115200and to get "almost all" backup type
Code: [Select]
tar -cvpf /mnt/root_backup_originall.tar / --exclude "mnt/*" --exclude "proc/*"
and don't forget to umount /mnt before you rip out thumbdrive.

2 tinhead: do you have any sujestions about "10USD total" PSU fixup?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on April 10, 2011, 02:06:26 am
I think more relevant change power supply to work not only on AC 110-240V, but from DC 12V.
I want to do so as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 10, 2011, 11:09:33 am
Here are some photos of my DSO:
(http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020441_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020444_pw.jpg)
(http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020446_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020447_pw.jpg)
(http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020449_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020450_pw.jpg)
(http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020452_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020455_pw.jpg)
(http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020457_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020458_pw.jpg)
(http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020461_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020463_pw.jpg)
(http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020464_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020466_pw.jpg)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 11, 2011, 11:06:52 am
2 tinhead: do you have any sujestions about "10USD total" PSU fixup?

oh well, there are many possible parts. As the 3.3V will be generated from 5V you don't have even to disassemble the PSU for testing,
just connect an LDO to front USB and measure the ripple. On the PSU-side ht 5V ripple is bit higher as on VUSB-side, but if you
have good results you can then try to replace on PSU and measure there.

Semi-direct replacements for the KA378R33:
LT1585CM-3.3 or LT1585CM-ADJ - 3A LDO, ADJ for better PSSR
or
TPS75833 or TPS75801 - 3A LDO
or even PTH04070WAH (or PTH04070WAZT) - which is 3A DC/DC with 10mV/Vpp ripple.

Both LDOs will reduce the ripple on 3.3V only a littebit in compare to KA378R33, but more important is they are designed for
fast transient response. The DC/DC converter need of course some output filter, see Altera/TI PTH04070W appnotes.



For separate ADC power supply something like a combination of some parts:
TPS73701 from 5V to 4.3V-4.5V 1A
TPS7A8001 from 4.3 to 3.0V-3.3V, 1A

The LP5900SD-3.0 (or 3.3) would be even better for 4.3->3.0 conversion, the only problem is you will
need 3 of them. Advantage - less ripple/noise than TPS7A8001, disadvantage - ADCs not powered with same VCC.

All these parts are luckily small, they can be easily placed on small separate PCB fixed to main pcb, see attached picture.
As said before, that's only proposal, i (or someone else) have to check it in detail.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 11, 2011, 11:30:57 am
attached the ripple pictures (believe me, you don't want to see the noise ...) , note the VUSB ripple look
different as the 5V on PSU directly. The 3.3V ripple on the picture is avg. value digitally and analog filtered to see the form,
so the measured amplitude is lower than the real amplitude (with good Analog scope measured 18mV Vpp on ADC directly).

On the new hardware revision the 3.3V ripple seems to be lower, however i don't see any PSU/VCC changes so probably
caused by parts quality. Therefore my measurments are only valid for my actuall unit, it might be that you will see
something different.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 11, 2011, 12:32:59 pm
Very interesting!
So, what part quality may be different? Solid devices should be same, any idea?
I'm I right thinking that 3.3V PSU ripple is what we see on idle/connected to ground probe?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 11, 2011, 07:19:22 pm
So, what part quality may be different? Solid devices should be same, any idea?

For example the smps transformer could be developed different, this is custom part so we can't see
if there was a design change. Another possiblity are caps on PSU PCB with maybe different ESR matching better the
PSU design. If you measure around on the PSU you will see that only the 5V is having such massive ripple,
the other voltages are better - even unloaded, so sure there is room for improvement.
I don't have new hardware revision here, but someone else did measured the ripple and i do trust him.

I'm I right thinking that 3.3V PSU ripple is what we see on idle/connected to ground probe?

no, this not work like that.

The PSU ripple/noise have influence on ADC quantization reducing the ENOB.
As the ADCs are overclocked we can't calculate the error, so all we can do is to improve PSRR/noise.

Traditionaly after switching regulator (PSU) a LDO with some ferrite beads will follow to filter the VCC.
Of course EE can save some money and supply the VCC directly from switching regulator (that's what Hantek is doing),
but then a combination of rc snubber/ferrite bead/filter is necessary to decrease ripple/noise (which Hantek didn't did except single ferrite bead).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 12, 2011, 02:10:31 pm
BTW, what is a *.bin fs type yaffs or yaffs2? I'm looking for a way to mount root.bin, made by backup utility.

sed and awk are available, as I can see in my tar backup, I have no clue why they need them on DSO, but this gives us ability to "softly" hack a device by batch editing configs and moving/renaming other files. That will help folks, having no UART. And this gonna be more safe than loading bin file. We can backup files prior making modifications.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on April 12, 2011, 05:08:29 pm
As we all know just all discuss in this forum are highly folloved by Tekway/Hantek.
Rigol we teach make mod more difficult.

Hantek need do only some simple changes and all is end.
(yes still it is modable but not so easy as before)

And more they need do work with this mod related things... more there is delay for these develop what they really need do.
If we push them to work with this mod issue it takes resources from some more important things.

Now it is not yet so clever to stop mod (by Hantek) becouse this propability may rise selling...
And maybe there need be some small window still open but...

tinhead have done lot of fine work for this and we can respect highly his superior work if first read carefully all what he have write. Tehere is lot of info and wink how to do.

Discl. This is only my personal opinion and I have not any relationship with Tekway or Hantek.
I do not comment possible comments what this may induce.
:)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 13, 2011, 07:43:50 am
I wonder if we are actually breaking any laws by modifying firmware and hardware and making that stuff public.. And especially opening the process itself.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Gall on April 13, 2011, 11:07:00 am
It depends on the contry you're living in.

I.e., Russian federal law explicitly permits reverse-engineering and modification of hardware and software, "if it is needed to provide proper interaction between components of the system". This generally conflicts with intellectual property laws (i.e., a software crack IS a "modification for proper interaction (between application and underlying OS/hardware)"), so only court can make a final decision.

Chinese law seems to permit anything.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 13, 2011, 12:49:21 pm
Hm-m-m.. Let's ask the question in different way: "Can I or any other person get in trouble with HanTekWay helping other people to hack DSOs"? Basicaly, is HanTekWay is interested in kicking anybodies ass because of this hack?

BTW, HanTekWay seems to break GPL.. That was already with ASUS router and they had to open fw.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on April 13, 2011, 01:23:20 pm
I think there are no problems with the law.
We buy the device and not the program.  Changing the hardware device, we lose  manufacturer's warranty.
But this is not a violation of the rights of the manufacturer. Who can deny you install on a new car the nitrogen booster, or ban you install sports shock absorbers?
Modifying the program,you do not infringe the rights of the producer, until you begin to sell the modified software, or use it for other commercial purposes, only if the program is protected by a patent.
I do not think that a program running under Linux, is a separate trademark product.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 13, 2011, 01:32:32 pm
Modification of own DSO not suppose to be a crime, I think. But tinhead made recipe public available. Is that a crime?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: bilko on April 13, 2011, 01:46:45 pm
He did the manufacturer a big favour and increased their sales and market share. Most people on this board would not have even considered buying this brand if it was not made public here.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 13, 2011, 02:39:51 pm
Modification of own DSO not suppose to be a crime, I think.

simple said "of course not", as long there is no conflict with the business (best example is Sony) or laws.
However in case of business conflict the court have to judge, not the manufacturer.
So depends on kind of modification and potential law conflict (if you mod your car to fly instead of drive you will break many laws, not only manufacturer IPs) it might be a crime.

Good example for legal mod is the LAN-Addon card, i even got some support from Hantek for it
(as for the old hardware revision is no LAN addon planed there is no business conflict - for the new hardware revision
this question has been not yet answered) - this means i can even produce and sell such LAN-Addon boards.


But tinhead made recipe public available. Is that a crime?

All i did was to publish a "security hole" which is not illegal and to be very honest i notified HanTekway about it (so they know my name).

A different story is for those who did modified own DSO - in this special case (as you using exact the way the manufacturer is using)
it is a "crime", the 100/200MHz bw are "payable options" so in principle everybody who did such mod should at least
pay the potential price difference to the manufacturer.

It would/could (and this depends on country laws) be a different story if someone would develop hardware/software addon
changing the bw (no, not just a batch file changing something but a real addon).

Currently, due GPL infringement HanTekway can't do anything against these who mod their own DSO (and they will probably never do soemthing, just because it costs much more than the potential revenue - they smart enough to know that this will kill the
business - they not brainless like Sony). In worst case it can happens that if you send back your modified DSO to HanTekway for repair
they will send you an invoice.

However i'm sure HanTekway will kick your ass if you shop-owner/distributor selling modified DSOs or selling the mod itself
or helping (even for free) your customers to use this mod as this is direct business conflict (regardless of GPL or whatever).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 13, 2011, 06:47:53 pm
Got you. So, simplified answer is that if you are not making money of it - you are safe.
As for me, I'm not a "business" at all, I'm a regular hobbyist, even not modified my DSO (but crackopened, as you can see. I'm trying to open almost everything I get in my hands anyway). And frankly speaking, I bought this device only because of review and it's "open" (read "known") architecture.

For now, my questions are:
1. what fs is used for .bin files?
2. what database language files stored in?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 13, 2011, 07:20:47 pm
For now, my questions are:
1. what fs is used for .bin files?
2. what database language files stored in?

fs is YAFFS, help file (/help.db) is SQLite format 3 and language files are located in /OurLangauges , they are pure text files.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 13, 2011, 08:02:33 pm
There are two versions of YAFFS: yaffs and yaffs2, so what is the used one?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 13, 2011, 08:48:01 pm
There are two versions of YAFFS: yaffs and yaffs2, so what is the used one?

yaffs is yaffs, yaffs2 is yaffs v2 ... it doen not really matter, and as said before YAFFS
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: p1ge0n on April 15, 2011, 03:23:15 pm
Hi everybody,

Thanks for you for helping me choose Hantek DSO1502B which has arrived yesterday. I'm very satisfied with it. Today I had a look inside and found that it has new hardware revision PCB. Is it possible to "upgrade" it to 200Mhz? What about resistors? Thank you in advance for advise.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 15, 2011, 03:41:15 pm
Hi everybody,

Thanks for you for helping me choose Hantek DSO1502B which has arrived yesterday. I'm very satisfied with it. Today I had a look inside and found that it has new hardware revision PCB. Is it possible to "upgrade" it to 200Mhz? What about resistors? Thank you in advance for advise.

Regards,
Paul

sure, you can still use the how-to from page 1 of this thread (meaning over uart/shell) or
as you have new firmware anyway (which includes the "special" hole) you can build your own firmware doing the change for you.
So depends on you, if you know how build firmware and you know how to fix in case of disaster (well actually very easy over uart),
then you can build your own fw (note: the one posted by wjb444 is for Tekway not Hantek, but the way how it works is the same).
If you don't know, just go the secure way - over uart.

The resistors - well, i don't know how often i said "do not play with them unless you have good equipment to re-calibrate the DSO",
but unfortunately ppl just soldering around and wondering later why there is 5ns skew or trigger not working ...
On the other side the 5102B you have is good up to 200MHz with these resistors
(if they for 100MHz unit, it can be you got re-labeled 200mhz unit anyway), so no need to fix it anything anyway.


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: p1ge0n on April 16, 2011, 07:14:32 am
Thanks tinhead for the prompt answer. I'll try to do it over uart. Is it possible to determine what version do I have? The resistors values are different compare to what you published for Tekway PCB. I'm not going to replace them, just curious.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 16, 2011, 11:03:00 am
Thanks tinhead for the prompt answer. I'll try to do it over uart. Is it possible to determine what version do I have? The resistors values are different compare to what you published for Tekway PCB. I'm not going to replace them, just curious.

nice, maybe new/improved combination ? shot a picture of one of the input chanels.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: clonecrp on April 17, 2011, 03:26:21 am
e-priest:

Can you send me contact info on your Hantek DSO5102B supplier please...?

Thanks!
Doug
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 17, 2011, 10:29:49 am
e-priest:
Can you send me contact info on your Hantek DSO5102B supplier please...?
I've bought it from AliExpress.com, search for "Hantek DSO-5102B".
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 17, 2011, 10:57:51 am
Thanks tinhead for the prompt answer. I'll try to do it over uart. Is it possible to determine what version do I have? The resistors values are different compare to what you published for Tekway PCB. I'm not going to replace them, just curious.
And it will be nice if you post a photo of power supply to.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: clonecrp on April 17, 2011, 05:29:22 pm
e-priest:

I see you purchased from them ...

I recently purchased a Hantek DDS-3x25 arbitrary Wave form generator from http://www.thefamousbrandsoutlet.com (http://www.thefamousbrandsoutlet.com) and find they have also have the Hantek 100MHz 2Channel Digital Storage Oscilloscope DSO5102B with warranty => http://www.thefamousbrandsoutlet.com/test-measurement-instruments/benchtop-oscilloscopes/hantek-100mhz-2channel-digital-storage-oscilloscope-dso5102b.html (http://www.thefamousbrandsoutlet.com/test-measurement-instruments/benchtop-oscilloscopes/hantek-100mhz-2channel-digital-storage-oscilloscope-dso5102b.html) ,these guys (Frank) are in Toronto but ship from Niagara Falls, NY with free shipping in the US.

How are your progressing on your mod(s) ?

Please advise...

Thanks!
Doug
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 17, 2011, 05:48:04 pm
How are your progressing on your mod(s) ?
Please advise...
Thanks!
Doug
Well, my device OK and works fine, but I'm not going to mod it until I at least I will be able to measure the difference. I'm going to build 350 ps rise edge generator. I crack opened it, you can find some photos on pages above, but nothing special, same 1.00.3 Tekway board inside. Dirty soldering, tons of flux.. but still not bad and much better than expected from 6 hundred backs Chinese toy. It's definitely can be hacked, but I have some unanswered questions. Seems that prices go down.

USD 640 not a bad price for device with warranty, but keep in mind, you will void it if you mod/hack. I actually already forget how you guys in USA deal with VAT or whatever, I've been in US very long ago, I was lucky enough to get mine paying no taxes at all.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: clonecrp on April 18, 2011, 12:00:32 am
e-priest:

Thanks for the rapid response... Really appreciate the shots ...

I think you are fortunate on the price. No VAT here in the US ... at least not for now.

I use a cleaner called carbo-chlor to clean my PCBs ... not to inhale though ... also IBM made a cleaner that works well too Cleaning Fluid Part No. 450608 with contains similar to carbo-chlor but other stuff too:

1,1,1-Trichoroethane <= That's the stuff that does the trick ! Product says it also may have 1,2-Butylene Oxide, Diethylele Ether,Glycol Methylene, Swc-Butanol, Nitromethane.... but the the "Trich" moves all residue away. 

I don't think the carbo-chlor or IBM Cleaning Fluid are sold in U.S. any longer ... the "Trich" also melts some plastics but I haven't seen the melting problem with many PCB components.

Warmest Regards,

Doug
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 19, 2011, 01:34:45 pm
What Volts/Div:Coarse/Fine does in channel menu? A can't figure you what changes between Coarse and Fine.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on April 19, 2011, 01:48:51 pm
What Volts/Div:Coarse/Fine does in channel menu? A can't figure you what changes between Coarse and Fine.

Normal steps are example 1 - 2 - 5V / div

Select Fine.

Now turn channel voltage adjust knob. (Vertical:  Volts/div)

It changes example 1.02V - 1.04V - 1.06V - 1.08V - 1.10V / div
(steps are different in different voltage "band") example if go under 1V next is 990mV/div  etc.)


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: e-pirate on April 19, 2011, 02:19:55 pm
Normal steps are example 1 - 2 - 5V / div
Select Fine.
Now turn channel voltage adjust knob. (Vertical:  Volts/div)
It changes example 1.02V - 1.04V - 1.06V - 1.08V - 1.10V / div
(steps are different in different voltage "band") example if go under 1V next is 990mV/div  etc.)
Got it, thank you.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 20, 2011, 06:57:46 pm
As there is no PSRR data for overclocked ADCs i spend some time
and measured it by myself (PSRR of AD9288 under overclocking condition).
As far i can see the PSRR is only about 25db for 50MHz signals (ADC clock 125MHz)
and only 18db for 200MHz signals (ADC clock 125MHz).

This means, with the measured 18mV PSU ripple (before my mod) the ADC error
is about 1mV with 50MHz and 2.25mV with 200MHz signal which is
in worst case about 1/2 LSB of the AD9288.

So why any mods ? Well, the original design (with overclocked AD9288)
was done by Instek, these guys calculated everything proper, no issue at all.

Tekway's design is working too - on paper at least. In real world
we have not a single ADC but at least 2 physical ADC die's, so in worst case
the error need to be multiplied by 2.

(Instek's original design have better power supply, so still no issue at all for Instek DSOs).

This means with input freq. starting from 150MHz the error is above 1/2LSB
and finally about 1 LSB with 200MHz input signal.

1LSB is maybe not much, but i don't like it, therfore i did modified the PSU a littlebit
to improve a bit 5V / 3.3V supply.


The mod is very simple:
4700/10V instead of C19 (3300/10)
1500/10V instead of C14 (1000/16)
3 x 47/6.3V SMD on the bottom side instead of C22 (330/10)

and DC/DC converter (so the PSU is cold now) instead of KA378R33.


The part numbers are:

2 x EEFCD0J470R (Farnell/Element14 9694714) - that's the 47uF SMD caps soldered on bottom side of PSU pcb.
1 x PTH04070WAH (Farnell/Element14 1470479) - dc/dc converter
2 x GRM32ER71A476KE15L (Farnell/Element14 1797018) - soldered as close as possible to PTH04070 pins

1 x EEUFM1A152L (Farnell/Element14 1855213) - 1500uF
1 x EEUFM1A472L (Farnell/Element14 1219459) - 4700uF


The Ti DC/DC sonverter is recommended for Altera FPGA designs, so it will
definitely work better for fast transient /high load as the KA378R33.

After all i did measured the ripple, it is now about 11mV (instead of 18mV) for the 3.3V
and 61mV (instead of 76mV) for the 5V.

The attached 3.3V ripple measurment is again with digital/analog filter, so you can see only 6mV
Vpp ripple, but on good analog scope it is in real 11mV.

This is maybe not that much, but now in worst case the ADC error is a little bit higher that 1/2LSB.

you can compare to what was before :
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg41294#msg41294 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg41294#msg41294)

Total price of the mode, something about 16USD.
You can of course do it with combination of TPS73701/TPS7A8001 (to produce clean 3.3V from 5V)
but my goal was to reduce the 5V ripple too and replace the unnecessary "heat-engine" (KA378R33).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ccatt on April 23, 2011, 11:13:12 am
 If Tekway disable the UART port,What can I do?My dso 's UART not transmit any message.Before this,I let after-sales department to handle this so-called update .I don't know is or isn't this(http://www.xici.net/#b1293165/door.asp (http://www.xici.net/#b1293165/door.asp))
How am I to open the UART port? what to writer the vivi.bin or the original bootloader ,I want knoe the specific address or offset ?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 23, 2011, 12:49:09 pm
If Tekway disable the UART port,What can I do?My dso 's UART not transmit any message.Before this,I let after-sales department to handle this so-called update .I don't know is or isn't this(http://www.xici.net/#b1293165/door.asp (http://www.xici.net/#b1293165/door.asp))
How am I to open the UART port? what to writer the vivi.bin or the original bootloader ,I want knoe the specific address or offset ?

Currently the UART is still open, just connect to uart and boot the DSO. You should see some messages in the window.
You can interrupt the DSO application by CTRL+C and Enter. Sometimes you have to do it during the dso is booting linux or just
multiple times, but it still works.

I don't think they will disable UART port, but if then you have still other way to connect to shell:
- over LAN-Addon board (i posted full schematics and Eagle brd files, so you can produce your own LAN board)
- you can dump the firmware, patch it and restore on s3c2440 board (for test reason). I did it before for older Tekway DSOs,
all you need is to stop the rcS from executing dso.exe by simple hex editing the firmware dump. After that i was able to connect
over UART, do changes and restore back. So this way will alyway work for the current Tekway DSOs (it is Linux, so there is alway a hole).
- we can still create a fake firmware update files, downgrading the firmware to version where UART is working.

So just don't worry, there is nothing they can do against.

Vivi is always loaded from adress 0x0 of the NAND, the maximum length in Tekway DSOs is currently 128kb (the org. Tekway vivi is about 94kb only, but there is 128kb spae reserverd for vivi, i did used matching supervivi and own compiled vivi already) , so you can create your own vivi as long it is not larger than 128kb and "burn" to NAND 0x0 address.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: carloscuev on April 23, 2011, 04:41:42 pm
Hello tinhead, first of all I want to thank you for your time and dedication to this subject, this thread definitively made me decide which DSO to get, my DST1102B is on its way bought from Mr. Pioneer Huang at Aliexpress.

I'll sure take it apart after a quick DOA check, will post 8MPX pics of the boards. The scope will arrive in chinese and I will change it to engish, does this will require a complete firmware change or just some setup? AFAIK the latest FW is 2.6.3 right? But at the Tekway homepage theres only 2.5 version. Where can I find the latest english version? Sorry I have not finished reading all the thread since Im currently in a extensive work project that takes almost all of my time.

I cant wait to have my own scope, currently using a Fluke 199 Scopemeter from the company I work for which does not have all the complete DSO functionality (also, the horizontal black line disease, common for this series fluke scopmeters, is stating to appear)

Can it be possible that I get that new redesigned PCB with SD, Ethernet footprints? Or currently its only possible with Hantek DSOs like RobertB's?

Thanks !
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ccatt on April 23, 2011, 05:33:14 pm
tinhead,thank you!
Yes,I do it in accordance with your same step before ask you,  press the CTRL+C and Enter many times (in SecureCRT and HyperTerminal ).But am I wrong,is it possible in DNW.exe.
but whatever l tried, wouldn't get  any message  in windows .  
My USB  FT232 converter  is normal when connection rx to tx itself.
What time to Post your matching supervivi and own compiled vivi ,and the interrelated files of other ways?
In addition, I do not have the qualifications to DIY LAN.
You know  (Attempt to disassemble the product can damage it and void your warranty),I don't want to miss the boat 3 years easily.Because  JTAG  20 pins not solder.Although I bought the H-JTAG .
If you are interested,I can post my backup files (  boot.bin  kernel.bin  root.bin  )
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on April 23, 2011, 07:03:37 pm
ccatt

maybe you can test it with scope itself if there is signal. (but be careful... repeat... be careful do not damage UART.

Start scope.

Let it run.


Connect probe center pin carefully to UART 0 Tx so that it do not make any short circuit to neighbours.

(all time as scope is on it sends data out from uart! Also if you turn or push some knob UART send it out.
If you do nothing and scope is on with default setup... it sends some short string around 10seconds inteval.

This data stream you can detect with probe. If there is nothing maybe UART 0 Tx is damaged.

UART have not any buffer/protection so it is very extremely easy to defect and it may die very easy!

There need normally connect only UART0 Rx to module Tx and UART0 Tx to module Rx and GND to GND

(my experience is about Hantek and USB to TTL UART made with CP2102)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 23, 2011, 07:06:48 pm
Hello tinhead, first of all I want to thank you for your time and dedication to this subject, this thread definitively made me decide which DSO to get, my DST1102B is on its way bought from Mr. Pioneer Huang at Aliexpress.

I'll sure take it apart after a quick DOA check, will post 8MPX pics of the boards. The scope will arrive in chinese and I will change it to engish, does this will require a complete firmware change or just some setup? AFAIK the latest FW is 2.6.3 right? But at the Tekway homepage theres only 2.5 version. Where can I find the latest english version? Sorry I have not finished reading all the thread since Im currently in a extensive work project that takes almost all of my time.

I cant wait to have my own scope, currently using a Fluke 199 Scopemeter from the company I work for which does not have all the complete DSO functionality (also, the horizontal black line disease, common for this series fluke scopmeters, is stating to appear)

Can it be possible that I get that new redesigned PCB with SD, Ethernet footprints? Or currently its only possible with Hantek DSOs like RobertB's?

Thanks !

i did posted the latest Tekway firmware (2.6.3) on other forum, http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/106249/dst1kb_2.06.3_01102b_fc_110225.0_.up (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/106249/dst1kb_2.06.3_01102b_fc_110225.0_.up)
You can use it to update your language files.

The reason why Tekway is having only the 2.5.x firmware on the website is the hack itself. They sending via email without any issues firmwares,
but they asking always for what model. This is only because after the hack prevention (try) they need separate firmwares for each model, and
not like before one universal firmware. So it is my fault why there is only 2.5.x. Anyway, i heard from Tekway that this will change soon (meaning they will update the website).


Well, it can be that oyu got the latest hardware, but it can be also old stock. You don#t have even to open, just check the utility->system status.
It the [hardversion] starts with 0x then you have old stock hardware.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 23, 2011, 07:10:31 pm
tinhead,thank you!
Yes,I do it in accordance with your same step before ask you,  press the CTRL+C and Enter many times (in SecureCRT and HyperTerminal ).But am I wrong,is it possible in DNW.exe.
but whatever l tried, wouldn't get  any message  in windows .  
My USB  FT232 converter  is normal when connection rx to tx itself.
What time to Post your matching supervivi and own compiled vivi ,and the interrelated files of other ways?
In addition, I do not have the qualifications to DIY LAN.
You know  (Attempt to disassemble the product can damage it and void your warranty),I don't want to miss the boat 3 years easily.Because  JTAG  20 pins not solder.Although I bought the H-JTAG .
If you are interested,I can post my backup files (  boot.bin  kernel.bin  root.bin  )

maybe uart port is broken, the S3c2440 is easy to destory :) i did it already (and had to re-solder the chip).

The supervivi is on the very first page of this thread, 3rd posting ... :)

And sure, if you have h-jtag and created NAND backup (wth OOB blocks) or if you crated via the utility posted here (so then these 3 files)
you can upload them somewhere and give me the link.
I can then restore it on my dev board and do whatever you like, no problem.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ccatt on April 24, 2011, 06:23:33 am
 thank you,tinhead!
My USB  FT232 converter  must be marked wrong .swap the pin  (tx rx) ,  UART is working.
 :D

link
https://rapidshare.com/files/458915396/dst1062b.rar
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: clonecrp on April 25, 2011, 11:57:07 pm
e-priest:

Received my Hantek 100MHz scope today. How have you progressed w/yours ? ::)

Thanks !

Doug
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: colinbeeforth on April 26, 2011, 03:30:59 pm
Hi tinhead,

Many thanks for your excellent work!

I have recently bought Hantek DSO5102B and have noticed some bizarre behaviour when using it on the 40k acquisition memory setting.

When testing at lower timebase settings, if you go one timebase setting faster, and the sample rate will increase and memory used usually stays around 32k or 25.6k - this is just because of timebase/div x 16divs x sample rate = acquisition memory used.  Normal situation with all DSOs.

At 20uS per division, sample rate is 100MS/s the memory taken is 32k, and the table of data looks like this:

Timebase          Samplerate        Memory
20uS/div           100MS/s            32k
8uS/div             200MS/s            25.6k
4uS/div             400MS/s            25.6k
2uS/div             400MS/s            12.8k
800nS/div          400MS/s            5.12k
400nS/div          400MS/s            2.56k
200nS/div          400MS/s            1.28k
80nS/div            500MS/s            640
40nS/div            1GS/s                640

As the time/div increases from slow, the sample rate is in a 1-2-5 pattern until it reaches 8uS/div, then it switches to 200MS/s, then 400MS/s and locks at 400MS/s for many settings.  This is pretty crazy behaviour.

A LeCroy 9310 using same time base settings and 50k acquisition memory is totally logical, running slower digitising speed for low timebase settings, and speeding up to maximum sample rate, then it decreases memory taken until you reach top time/div setting.  This makes sense.

It is tested by setting the scope to Dots interpolation, and 40k max acquisition memory.  Take a single shot of anything, then when sweep is stopped, increase the timebase control until you see the dots, then use time cursors to measure across ten dots and read time between points and sample rate from cursor display.

Have you experienced this weirdness in your scopes?

Cheers, Colin


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 26, 2011, 06:15:53 pm
Colin,

actually it is very hard to say what is the real sample rate on these scopes. From a ADC clock point of view everything below
8ns/div is sampled with 100MHz x amount of ADC = 800MSs. Starting from 8ns/div up to 2ns/div it is 125MHz x 8 = 1GSs.
That's the measured clock on ADC pins and actually the physical sample rate. So for single channel, 4k this could be
the "real" sample rate. It changes of course as soon two channels are enabled (div by 2).

Probably we should ask the original developer, which i think is someone worked for Instek before (or contractor? maybe).
I stopped to try to understand why something is build in the one or other way, as long it works i'm fine.
Some ideas are very nice, others are price driven.


About the DSO design and measurments:

The DSO is using Altera Cyclone II, if you check the specs you will see the amount of internal SRAM is "big" enough for
only one channel 4k sampling, so everything beyond that is saved into long memory (btw, same for Rigol DSOs - they have 16k per
channel which didn't match the FPGA size as well by factor 4!!). Data shifting costs time anyway, so that's one of
the reasons why Rigol's wfrm/s is much lower than Hantek (just because they shift 4times more data for short memory shot).

Anyway, due the data shifting/short shots into FPGA memory you can't just measure the sample rate by dots difference
(not only that, see below). Someone told me "FFT is displaying sample rate", well yes, it does but it didn't really match
just because in FFT mode the FPGA design is working in a different mode (you can actually see this on the DSO shell,
there is "debug log" running).

The data is finally calculated/mixed together within the FPGA and moved to SoC/UI. This is definitely different than on LeCroy 9310
where the sample rate is physically changing and the memory deep makes more sense (just because of the fact that the LeCroy
is sampling with different rates and the memory is writable on full speed).

Note, the external SRAM here is clocked with 200MHz only so there are some limits within the shifting from FPGA to external SRAM,
in both short and long memory mode (except short mem 1 channel).

If you analyze these dots:
Starting from 4µs/div to 2ns/div the amount of captured data (40k setting) is always 100µs long.
With 4µs/div the diff between dots is 2.5ns, so we have exactly 40000 dots.
With 80ns the diff is changing to 2ns, so we have 50000 dots, then with 40ns the diff is again switching to 1ns
so we have already 100k and finally with 20ns/div the diff is 500ps so we have 200k dots.

I said "finally" because in 8ns/4ns/2ns/div the diff is very small and hard to count exactly, but it seems to be
200ps, 100ps and 50ps.

And it is exact same behaviour with 2 channels enabled or 4k/512k or 1M memory (except of course the recorded data length
and count of dots, but same logic behind - look on 20ns/div and 1M memory - that's 4M dots!).


This is of course with real time mode sampling selected. With equ mode selected and 20ns/div the diff between dots
is 100ps instead of 500ps like in real time mode.

So is Hantek cheating a bit and running the DSO in kind of equ mode where real time is selected ? No, it is not.
This is just result of how they using sin/x interpolation and the way how the DSO is designed.

Therefore don't count the dots, they not one per sample and don't compare to other DSOs as they designed different
(except Rigol and Instek - as they designed similar, Rigol having 2 more ADCs so no 125/100Mhz switching and Instek having
much bigger FPGA so no data shifting in short memory mode, but the idea is the same).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: colinbeeforth on April 27, 2011, 01:56:54 am
Hi tinhead,

Thanks for the lengthy reply, I'll try to understand what you have said in small sections.

I often work with short single pulses, so I need to know what the scope is doing if I am to trust what I see on the screen.  If I want to look at a repeating waveforms I have several analogue scopes I can use that are much faster to drive.  The thing that DSOs do, that beats analogue scopes, is single shot storage of a waveform.  There's not a lot of point talking about DSOs for repeating waveforms, that has already been solved.  So for this discussion, I always refer to single shot operation.

On my LeCroy there is an info screen, one button, anytime and you see all the channel settings, timebase settings, sample rate and memory acquired at a single glance.  It is very clear to me what it is doing, and I know what pulses I can sensibly measure and what is likely to be aliased.  By comparison, the Hantek/Tekway design seems to be hiding that information, so I wonder why.  Also, they hide the change from Real Time operation to Equivalent Time operation, that is deeply annoying.  LeCroy automatically switch to Equivalent Time (they call it RIS, or Repetitive Interleaved Sampling) but it is clearly visible at all times.  The operator really <needs> to know when this is happening, otherwise the data on the screen might be totally undersampled and quite untrustworthy.


You said:
"actually it is very hard to say what is the real sample rate on these scopes." and "Probably we should ask the original developer"

I agree completely with these comments, but are we never likely to find who it was and ask them...


You said:
"The DSO is using Altera Cyclone II, if you check the specs you will see the amount of internal SRAM is "big" enough for
only one channel 4k sampling"

OK, thanks for that information, I'm not experienced with FPGA so their specs are confusing to me.  That would explain the default back to 4k with Autoset.  It does change the way the scope must work, there are many compromises compared to my old LeCroy.  Even though my 9310 is only 100MS/s, I can trust that what I have on the screen, since I know always what sample rate it being used.


You said:
"The data is finally calculated/mixed together within the FPGA and moved to SoC/UI. This is definitely different than on LeCroy 9310
where the sample rate is physically changing and the memory deep makes more sense (just because of the fact that the LeCroy
is sampling with different rates and the memory is writable on full speed)."

I don't know what SoC/UI means.  In the LeCroy, the sample rate changes are completely logical and in keeping with the published limitations and specs.  The Info screen always tells you precisely what is happening.  In my LeCroy, the scope acquisition memory defaults to 10k, but you can select 50k.  Using 50k increases the processing required to display the waveforms, so drops the update rate, but the choice is yours.  As you increase the timebase setting, the scope it will automatically change to RIS (Repetitive Interleaved Sampling) or Equivalent Time automatically, but it clearly tells you this is the case, so you can't be easily fooled alias.


You said:
"I said "finally" because in 8ns/4ns/2ns/div the diff is very small and hard to count exactly, but it seems to be
200ps, 100ps and 50ps."

Of course, this is what it would do for repeating waveforms.  I was testing it for single shot only.  Single shot waveform storage is the banner capability that separates DSOs from analogue scopes, so my focus is on single shot.


You said:
"This is of course with real time mode sampling selected. With equ mode selected and 20ns/div the diff between dots
is 100ps instead of 500ps like in real time mode."

Agreed, but I did all my tests on single shot acquisitions.  I have analogue scopes and didn't buy a a digital scope to show easy repetitive waveforms.


You said:
"So is Hantek cheating a bit and running the DSO in kind of equ mode where real time is selected ? No, it is not.
This is just result of how they using sin/x interpolation and the way how the DSO is designed."

Clearly the maker must work within the limits of physics and with difficult cost restraints.  So, I am not being critical of the makers.  But, there is no reason for not letting the user know what the scope is doing.  There is still something weird happening with the sample rate getting stuck at 400MS/s for so long.  I cannot understand why this should happen.  At higher time base settings, the scope appears to use 500MS/s and 1000MS/s sample rate, so it's not like the digitiser can't do it.  It's not because of a 4k fast RAM limitation, since at 200nS/div, it samples 1.28k at 400MS/s.  It just makes no sense to me.  I can't understand why they break the 1-2-5 sequence of sample rate at lower timbase settings and go to 1-2-4.  I'm looking to explain why it is like this.  I can accept quirks of design, but I like to know <why> it is like that.


You said:
"This is just result of how they using sin/x interpolation and the way how the DSO is designed. "

What?  Surely this must be a mistake.  I saw nothing in the manual about the scope using sinx/x interpolation between actual data points.  I detest sinx/x interpolation.  I used to sell LeCroy DSOs many years ago, and I have seen many many comparisons of different digital scopes.  I finished that work 8 years ago, so I have not seen the latest HP DSOs.  Apparently, they have improved dramatically, but in my past experience, by far the worst alias problems my customers encountered were cases where sinx/x was operating.  Linear interpolation is the safest method.  As soon as you see the very characteristic alpine looking sharp peaks, you know you have undersampling and need to take care to ensure you aren't looking at alias.  Since Hantek/Tekway under the Display menu allows selection of Dots or Vectors, I assumed Vectors meant linear interpolation.  We must find some way to be sure about this, it really matters to me.


You said:
"Therefore don't count the dots, they not one per sample and don't compare to other DSOs"

If the dots are not actual sample points, what else could they be?  Don't forget, I have always used single shot mode and ensured Real Time mode was operating.

Please don't think I am full of criticism, I'm just trying to understand how this thing works, and whether I can trust its single shot screens.  I deal with photomultiplier and gas radiation detectors and fast one-ff pulses matter to me.

As general DSO philosophy, the vital thing is to understand the limitations of the technology so you are not fooled by alias.  Aliasing happens all the time, we just don't often realise it.  Trusting a DSO screen without questioning is a good way to fool yourself.

Another interesting factor is screen alias.  The screen only has a limited number of dots across it, if you squeeze memory down to show the pixels, then data is not being shown and alias can occur.  To my best knowledge, Hantek/Tekway at least make an effort to capture spikes that are present in memory and display something on the screen that grabs your attention and makes you zoom for more info.  LeCroy have always done this.  I believe GW Instek take the trouble also.  Many little modern scopes simply ignore the spike in memory and if luck has it fall into the data that is decimated for screen display, then bad luck, you never see it.  If you ask a Tek salesman about this, they get excited and say the data isn't lost, it's still in memory.  But so what, why would you scroll through anything up to 1 meg of waveform data <every single time> to find something that you don't know is there!!

I have no trouble with instrument and technology limitations.  I have no trouble with compromise made for better cost.  But if you can't find out what those imitations are, how can you ever know when to be alert for alias?  Even a car manual tells you what speeds to use for each gear...

Please keep up the good work, I have very much appreciated your work in informing us all about these scopes.  I'm enjoying tinkering with the HAntek/Tekway scope, the screen readability for my older eyes is very nice, I just don't trust it yet and may never fully, unless I get some answers.  I have emailed this issue to Hantek, who have sent a polite "gone to engineering evaluation" reply, so I wait with interest.  In the mean time, I thought it would be interesting to ask your thoughts on the matter. *smile*

Cheers, Colin
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: carloscuev on April 27, 2011, 09:57:09 am
My DST1102B arrived today :D
Just after a DOA check I opened it up !!
Here the pictures:

(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1185/dscn0263k.th.jpg) (http://img717.imageshack.us/i/dscn0263k.jpg/) (http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1218/dscn0267an.th.jpg) (http://img198.imageshack.us/i/dscn0267an.jpg/) (http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/465/dscn0270.th.jpg) (http://img577.imageshack.us/i/dscn0270.jpg/) (http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/3183/dscn0273.th.jpg) (http://img855.imageshack.us/i/dscn0273.jpg/) (http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7998/dscn0276e.th.jpg) (http://img16.imageshack.us/i/dscn0276e.jpg/) (http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/4593/dscn0278f.th.jpg) (http://img593.imageshack.us/i/dscn0278f.jpg/) (http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1089/dscn0284i.th.jpg) (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/dscn0284i.jpg/) (http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/6730/dscn0288b.th.jpg) (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/dscn0288b.jpg/) (http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/970/dscn0287ix.th.jpg) (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/dscn0287ix.jpg/) (http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/1553/dscn0291.th.jpg) (http://img807.imageshack.us/i/dscn0291.jpg/) (http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3179/dscn0301n.th.jpg) (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/dscn0301n.jpg/)

I tried to find the resistors which determine the lowpass filter value, but I did not find them, I guess they are on the other side and I was lazy to do that.

Something that I noticed is that it gets really hot inside. After 30 minutes of playing with it, when I opened it, all the metal plates were REALLY hot (I dont want to know the ICs). In fact before opening it I noticed a very intense heatwave coming from the top. I installed a 5cmx5cm fan in the place designed for that, and soldered a header in the power supply where it says "fan". Now it runs cool after hours of use. Sure its noisy but if it's a guarantee of a better lifespan i think it's not a big sacrifice, anyway I always have earphones listening some good music ;)


UPDATE: NOW HACKED !!!
At first I was afraid but the procedure seemed to be very easy, so i did it. Now I'm happy and grateful for tinhead :)

During the process:
(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9868/dscn0311n.th.jpg) (http://img90.imageshack.us/i/dscn0311n.jpg/)

Voila!
(http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3541/dscn0316k.th.jpg) (http://img709.imageshack.us/i/dscn0316k.jpg/) (http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8649/dscn0313y.th.jpg) (http://img121.imageshack.us/i/dscn0313y.jpg/)

I also wanted to do something about the PSU's 3.3v but didnt have much caps or regs lying around so I installed 2 extra 220uF Tantalum caps in the 3.3v output:
(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/9768/dscn0325ql.th.jpg) (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/dscn0325ql.jpg/)

Tinhead, do you think the tantalums are helping? Im looking towards fully hack the device including Ethernet, PSU mods, etc.

Something curious is that my DSO had a permanent +20mV offset on CH1, I did not took pictures of the shorted probe showing the offset. After the hack and tantalum caps the problem has dissappeared, I dont know why.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 27, 2011, 03:37:53 pm
Colin,

I often work with short single pulses, so I need to know what the scope is doing if I am to trust what I see on the screen.  If I want to look at a repeating waveforms I have several analogue scopes I can use that are much faster to drive.  The thing that DSOs do, that beats analogue scopes, is single shot storage of a waveform.  There's not a lot of point talking about DSOs for repeating waveforms, that has already been solved.  So for this discussion, I always refer to single shot operation.

All my comments above are valid for single shot, the buffer need to be filled no matter
if this is repeating or single event.
The “logic” behind the dots on screen is also valid for average and peak sampling modes,
the resulting count of dots might be different but that’s different story.

On my LeCroy there is an info screen, one button, anytime and you see all the channel settings, timebase settings, sample rate and memory acquired at a single glance.  It is very clear to me what it is doing, and I know what pulses I can sensibly measure and what is likely to be aliased.  By comparison, the Hantek/Tekway design seems to be hiding that information, so I wonder why.  Also, they hide the change from Real Time operation to Equivalent Time operation, that is deeply annoying.  LeCroy automatically switch to Equivalent Time (they call it RIS, or Repetitive Interleaved Sampling) but it is clearly visible at all times.  The operator really <needs> to know when this is happening, otherwise the data on the screen might be totally undersampled and quite untrustworthy.

Right, but that’s the major diff between brand names and china manufacturers. Actually not everything will be displayed and if there is information you can’t really trust.
Why ? Well very simple, all china DSOs (except Rigol 6000) are sampling always with fixed and highest sample rate of the ADCs, the resulting information is just “converted” to kind of sample rate information on the display (if available).  So actually you can’t undersample, the firmware is correcting automatically based on the horizontal settings. Of course they could do it different (meaning the sample rate setting will reflect changes to ADC clock), but then they would need better clock sources, an FPGA PLL is not good enough, some external clock logic would be necessary, probably with good clock jitter attenuators which cost money – so that’s why.


"actually it is very hard to say what is the real sample rate on these scopes." and "Probably we should ask the original developer"
I agree completely with these comments, but are we never likely to find who it was and ask them...

Actually in begin of 2007 a developer named “rgj” started development of a DSO 1.0 platform.
Later, in April 2008 Tekway company was founded and started production of the first DSO models DST3000/DST4000/DST1000 – based on DSO 1.0 platform. End of 2008 this developer worked again on DSO development – named DSO2.0 platform – mid of 2009 Tekway started development and end of 2009 sales of this new (DSO 2.0 platform based) series - DST1000B/DST3000B/DST4000B, which was bought by Hantek shareholders June 2010. Since them developer teams from both companies merged together and started with firmware optimization – of course for both Tekway and Hantek models. (Btw, since them firmware issues started, probably the joined HanTekway team should ask “rgj” how to optimize the firmware …)

No idea if “rgj” was/is working for Tekway or only external resource (which I think),
the fact is this developer is not located in China.
Maybe he/she is reading this thread and will answer us some questions.

At same time Instek and Rigol started of development and later production of very similar DSO.
Coincident?  no, I don’t think so.

You said:
"The DSO is using Altera Cyclone II, if you check the specs you will see the amount of internal SRAM is "big" enough for
only one channel 4k sampling"
OK, thanks for that information, I'm not experienced with FPGA so their specs are confusing to me.  That would explain the default back to 4k with Autoset.  It does change the way the scope must work, there are many compromises compared to my old LeCroy.  Even though my 9310 is only 100MS/s, I can trust that what I have on the screen, since I know always what sample rate it being used.

The Cyclone III, EP3C5 have 414kbits memory, Tekway/Hantek is using 8 ADCs x 8 bit x 4000 point,
so 250kbits, no way to have both channels sampled at same time into internal memory. Rigol is using exact the same FPGA, and sampling 2 x 16k (or it was 2 x 8k? no matter), this can’t match even for single shot, so they already shifting the information to external SRAM during short-memory shot /which is slowing down the design). Instek is using EP3C16, having 515kbits, this is big enough for single 8k or 2 channels 4k. I didn’t found any information about the memory size in short mem setting, but it would be probably 4 or 8k.
I don't know what SoC/UI means.

The SoC is actually ARM9 Samsung application processor responsible for GUI. This baby is reading the sampled data and displaying on screen. It is doing additionally some math/FFT things and the communication to outside world.

In the LeCroy, the sample rate changes are completely logical and in keeping with the published limitations and specs.  The Info screen always tells you precisely what is happening.  In my LeCroy, the scope acquisition memory defaults to 10k, but you can select 50k.  Using 50k increases the processing required to display the waveforms, so drops the update rate, but the choice is yours.  As you increase the timebase setting, the scope it will automatically change to RIS (Repetitive Interleaved Sampling) or Equivalent Time automatically, but it clearly tells you this is the case, so you can't be easily fooled alias.

All china DSOs are doing is exact in same way, except the fact that ADCs are hard-clocked so everything in done in firmware itself.

You said:
"I said "finally" because in 8ns/4ns/2ns/div the diff is very small and hard to count exactly, but it seems to be
200ps, 100ps and 50ps."
Of course, this is what it would do for repeating waveforms.  I was testing it for single shot only.  Single shot waveform storage is the banner capability that separates DSOs from analogue scopes, so my focus is on single shot.
You said:
"This is of course with real time mode sampling selected. With equ mode selected and 20ns/div the diff between dots
is 100ps instead of 500ps like in real time mode."
Agreed, but I did all my tests on single shot acquisitions.  I have analogue scopes and didn't buy a a digital scope to show easy repetitive waveforms.
Me too, there is no difference between single and repetitive run in the logic, except the fact that the memory will be purged and filled again and again and again.

This is just result of how they using sin/x interpolation and the way how the DSO is designed."
Clearly the maker must work within the limits of physics and with difficult cost restraints.  So, I am not being critical of the makers.  But, there is no reason for not letting the user know what the scope is doing.  There is still something weird happening with the sample rate getting stuck at 400MS/s for so long.  I cannot understand why this should happen.  At higher time base settings, the scope appears to use 500MS/s and 1000MS/s sample rate, so it's not like the digitiser can't do it.  It's not because of a 4k fast RAM limitation, since at 200nS/div, it samples 1.28k at 400MS/s.  It just makes no sense to me.  I can't understand why they break the 1-2-5 sequence of sample rate at lower timbase settings and go to 1-2-4.  I'm looking to explain why it is like this.  I can accept quirks of design, but I like to know <why> it is like that.

The 1-2-4 sequence is probably because of clock rates for FPGA/SRAM/ADC and amount of ADCs. (100MHz clocked, 200Mhz clocked, 8ADCs)
They could probably do 1-2-5 but it will cost some FPGA time slowing down waveforms refresh.
I don’t like it, but can live with that, one of the reason why I bought it was the 2500wfrm/s, the other choise would be at that time Rigol with 1-2-5 seq. but 800wfrm/s.

You said:
"This is just result of how they using sin/x interpolation and the way how the DSO is designed. "

What?  Surely this must be a mistake.  I saw nothing in the manual about the scope using sinx/x interpolation between actual data points.  I detest sinx/x interpolation.  I used to sell LeCroy DSOs many years ago, and I have seen many many comparisons of different digital scopes.  I finished that work 8 years ago, so I have not seen the latest HP DSOs.  Apparently, they have improved dramatically, but in my past experience, by far the worst alias problems my customers encountered were cases where sinx/x was operating.  Linear interpolation is the safest method.  As soon as you see the very characteristic alpine looking sharp peaks, you know you have undersampling and need to take care to ensure you aren't looking at alias.  Since Hantek/Tekway under the Display menu allows selection of Dots or Vectors, I assumed Vectors meant linear interpolation.  We must find some way to be sure about this, it really matters to me.

Well, that’s what you can find in the user manual – waveform interpolation : (sin x)/x
therefore you will see aliasing on all china DSOs.
Generally spoken all china DSO have a different understanding of sin x as for example Tektronix has,
however it is hard to guess what they exactly doing without source code.

You said:
"Therefore don't count the dots, they not one per sample and don't compare to other DSOs"
If the dots are not actual sample points, what else could they be?  Don't forget, I have always used single shot mode and ensured Real Time mode was operating.
Physically these dots have to be interpolated dots and not actual sampled points.

Please don't think I am full of criticism, I'm just trying to understand how this thing works, and whether I can trust its single shot screens.  I deal with photomultiplier and gas radiation detectors and fast one-ff pulses matter to me.

I can’t answer this question, these DSOs are comparable to Tektronix TDS2012, is such Tek is good for you then you fine, if not you will have to change it to better model, maybe Agilent DSOX will fit your need.
As general DSO philosophy, the vital thing is to understand the limitations of the technology so you are not fooled by alias.  Aliasing happens all the time, we just don't often realise it.  Trusting a DSO screen without questioning is a good way to fool yourself.
Another interesting factor is screen alias.  The screen only has a limited number of dots across it, if you squeeze memory down to show the pixels, then data is not being shown and alias can occur.  To my best knowledge, Hantek/Tekway at least make an effort to capture spikes that are present in memory and display something on the screen that grabs your attention and makes you zoom for more info.  LeCroy have always done this.  I believe GW Instek take the trouble also.  Many little modern scopes simply ignore the spike in memory and if luck has it fall into the data that is decimated for screen display, then bad luck, you never see it.  If you ask a Tek salesman about this, they get excited and say the data isn't lost, it's still in memory.  But so what, why would you scroll through anything up to 1 meg of waveform data <every single time> to find something that you don't know is there!!

Actually Hantek/Tekway are very similar to Instek, and to be very honest good for spikes detection.
The only thing I’m missing is search function, sure with the double window (F7) you can switch both normal and zoomed view and actually you will see these spikes in normal view, you can set some markes but there is room for improvement.

I have no trouble with instrument and technology limitations.  I have no trouble with compromise made for better cost.  But if you can't find out what those imitations are, how can you ever know when to be alert for alias?  Even a car manual tells you what speeds to use for each gear...

Well, no idea why these guys (now talking about all chinese DSO manufacturers) can’t just write everything down into the manual. Sure, even brand manufacturers are doing this, hiding some information’s, but you can always find such hidden information if you look on the competitor website …
What the do is to write down highlights, sure everything what good need to be known, everything else hidden.
I guess they doing this just because they worry nobody would buy their products. But actually we all know that you will have to pay a lot of money to get really good product, everything else is always compromise.


Please keep up the good work, I have very much appreciated your work in informing us all about these scopes.  I'm enjoying tinkering with the HAntek/Tekway scope, the screen readability for my older eyes is very nice, I just don't trust it yet and may never fully, unless I get some answers.  I have emailed this issue to Hantek, who have sent a polite "gone to engineering evaluation" reply, so I wait with interest.  In the mean time, I thought it would be interesting to ask your thoughts on the matter. *smile*

Sure you welcome and i hope my answer will help a bit to understand some things about chinese DSOs.
I remember how hard was to get any answer from Tekway at the beginning of my Tekway-adventure, especially because I did found some
“strange things” and asked directly. Today the communication is better, especially after Hantek shareholder bought Tekway,
Hantek’s international experience is good for us.


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 27, 2011, 04:02:56 pm

I tried to find the resistors which determine the lowpass filter value, but I did not find them, I guess they are on the other side and I was lazy to do that.
they located in the (shielding) input channel part of the PCB, which you already opened - i can see tme on your pics :)

Something that I noticed is that it gets really hot inside. After 30 minutes of playing with it, when I opened it, all the metal plates were REALLY hot (I dont want to know the ICs). In fact before opening it I noticed a very intense heatwave coming from the top. I installed a 5cmx5cm fan in the place designed for that, and soldered a header in the power supply where it says "fan". Now it runs cool after hours of use. Sure its noisy but if it's a guarantee of a better lifespan i think it's not a big sacrifice, anyway I always have earphones listening some good music ;)
right, the most heating comes from PSU, then the input circuit then FPGA and ADC.

My PSU, with the PTH04070 instead of KA378R33 is producing no heat at all, input channel can't be fixed (these chips will get hot)
and FPGA/ADCs have already heatsinks installed. A 12V fan powered with 5V (just replace the 7812 on the PSU by 7805 and connect the fan)
will do the rest.

UPDATE: NOW HACKED !!!
At first I was afraid but the procedure seemed to be very easy, so i did it. Now I'm happy and grateful for tinhead :)

you welcome

I also wanted to do something about the PSU's 3.3v but didnt have much caps or regs lying around so I installed 2 extra 220uF Tantalum
caps in the 3.3v output:

Tinhead, do you think the tantalums are helping? Im looking towards fully hack the device including Ethernet, PSU mods, etc.
you can measure the ripple by yourself :)
The Ethernet mod, yeah, maybe i should produce some PCBs. Few ppl asked already, it seems that the 6mil is to small for home made PCBs.

Something curious is that my DSO had a permanent +20mV offset on CH1, I did not took pictures of the shorted probe showing the offset. After the hack and tantalum caps the problem has dissappeared, I dont know why.

well, the time you spend on hacking the DSO, the device got over the warm-up time so the drift was gone, the explanation for this drift is here

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2961.0 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2961.0)

there is nothing wrong about.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: carloscuev on April 27, 2011, 04:21:51 pm
you can measure the ripple by yourself :)
The Ethernet mod, yeah, maybe i should produce some PCBs. Few ppl asked already, it seems that the 6mil is to small for home made PCBs.

Can the scope measure its own ripple by placing the probe in the +3.3v net?

wow 6mil sounds difficult but could be possible, I've done 8mil with a lot of problems, but got good results at last.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 27, 2011, 05:42:52 pm
Can the scope measure its own ripple by placing the probe in the +3.3v net?

sure, the best is with short gnd connection directly near ADCs.

wow 6mil sounds difficult but could be possible, I've done 8mil with a lot of problems, but got good results at last.

well, the Eagle files i posted can be of course changed.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ccatt on April 28, 2011, 12:55:27 pm
Tinhead,You saw that my upload files?Because i didn't have enough power to do that now. Only if i need to  enough to know to  do it .Can you tell me what the difference is between the received files and your previously  files,and reciprocal measures ?(if you can post the better nandflash backup file of dst1602, so much the better.)I only know a little Linux.used all your upgrade applications, always  reported error code . I don't know what Tekway did?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on April 28, 2011, 08:34:42 pm
Tinhead,You saw that my upload files?Because i didn't have enough power to do that now. Only if i need to  enough to know to  do it .Can you tell me what the difference is between the received files and your previously  files,and reciprocal measures ?(if you can post the better nandflash backup file of dst1602, so much the better.)I only know a little Linux.used all your upgrade applications, always  reported error code . I don't know what Tekway did?

yes i saw and got it, i will check on weekend (quite busy right now)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: clonecrp on May 03, 2011, 03:58:18 am
Tinhead ...

Removed my new Hantek DSO5102B from shipping container here .... applied power .... the display is quite nice at quick look.
... looking around etc ... I notice Acquire Menu - 1M LongMem is not supported by the model. Is this a SW, HW issue or both ?

Very Interesying Features  ;D ... I think I am going to like this

Probably will do Power Supply mods this week ... got the TI PTH04070WAH Chip as sample.

Comments Please ...

Thanks!
Doug
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: clonecrp on May 03, 2011, 05:51:17 am
BTW ... Loaded TTScope Software from Scope CD ... plugged in USB ... and a bad bong ! Usb Driver failed to load ..... won't attach ... eMail off to Hantek Support just to see what happens ...  :(  ??? ..  :'(

Anyone w/similar USB problem ?

Thanks!
Doug 
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ECL on May 03, 2011, 07:27:03 pm
BTW ... Loaded TTScope Software from Scope CD ... plugged in USB ... and a bad bong ! Usb Driver failed to load ..... won't attach ... eMail off to Hantek Support just to see what happens ...  :(  ??? ..  :'(

Anyone w/similar USB problem ?

Thanks!
Doug 

The version of TTScope on my CD was nonfunctional.  Use the version on Hantek's website.
Also, see this link, for where to find the driver, after installing TTScope (it says for Win7, but
I had to do the same for WinXP SP3):

http://www.hantek.com.cn//FAQ/Win7DriverInstall.pdf (http://www.hantek.com.cn//FAQ/Win7DriverInstall.pdf)

BTW Greetings everyone.  Been following the EEVB for a while now.  Thanks to everyone's
hard work, on this thread, I decided to buy a Hantek DSO as well.  Honestly, I was leaning toward
another manufacturer, but changed my mind, once I read about the hack, and the data that had
been collected on the scope.  I would not have bought the Hantek, if it hadn't been for this thread.
Hopefully this factors into Hantek's (and all manufacturer's thinking) going forward.  Special thanks
to Tinhead, for all of his hard work, and support! 

ECL -K
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on May 03, 2011, 10:32:52 pm
Hi Tinhead.

I've been waiting for the Windows 7 64 bit driver for TTScope. Do you know if this has been released.

Thanks for all the work that you do for us. I also wouldn't have a Tekway 200MHz oscilloscope if it wasn't for you.

RFman.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: clonecrp on May 03, 2011, 11:09:49 pm
Hey Guys !

Once my PS Mod is complete ...  I just might have a spare (one or two)  TI PTH04070WAH Chips if anyone needs one ... Just let me know  ;) .

Doug
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: colinbeeforth on May 04, 2011, 10:14:34 am
Hi tinhead,

Thanks for the very long and thorough reply.   I really appreciate the effort it means.  You have cleared up a major misunderstanding of mine.  Before buying I searched the Hantek manual for sinx/x.  There was no result, so I thought it did not use this limited method.  In the manual, just where you said, there was "sin(x)/x"  The horrible manual writer used brackets., so I did not think it was there.  I am not very happy about this now.  Even if a scope has sinx/x interpolation, most provide it as an option and it can be switched out.  I prefer to use DSOs without it.  sinx/x works ok in limited situations, but you have to be much more careful and watchful for alias problems.  Since Hantek/Tekway don't have an information screen, or even put the sample rate somewhere on the screen like most reputable makers, it is hard to know what the sample rate it uses, and therefore, how can I know whether alias is possible or not?  You can never be sure.  With linear interpolation, it is impossible to under-sample without very obvious spiky looking waveforms.  Linear interpolation is self policing, if there is risk of alias, you see sharp spikes, and it is a big warning to the user to check the signal and acquisition settings since it is under-sampled.

Let's look at a practical example:  If you feed a squarish waveform into the DSO, at say 250MHz.  At the fastest timebase settings the DSO will take 4 samples per repeating cycle.  If the input is a square wave, it will have quite high frequency components, and if you have a 200MHz front end bandwidth, I expect it will round off the sharp edges a bit.  The samples will go into memory, and be displayed with sinx/x interpolation.  This will force sine curves to join the dots.  The screen will display total lies compared to what is being fed into the ADC.  It will look nice rounded sine waves, you will have no reason to be suspicious or mistrust what you see.  If the scope used linear interpolation, you would see sharp spikes, and would immediately realise that you were seeing an alias.  It isn't happy when this happens, since you have limited ways of seeing what is actually there, but at least you know.  An analogue scope of 200MHz bandwidth will show far closer to the truth, although will slew rate limitations softening the sharper edges.  It is still useful to see.  This is why I think sinx/x is dangerous for DSOs, especially for inexperienced users.  Thing is, alias can happen at very slow timebase settings as well, so it isn't just something to worry about at the highest frequencies.

When I looked at the Hantek/Tekway Display mode menu and saw the "Vectors/Dots" switch.  I assumed this was the selection of display interpolation, as being no interpolation (Dots) or when switched on as simple straight line interpolation (Vectors).  I forgive myself for making this mistake - the DSO is very unclear about what this setting actually does.  But I am totally at a loss to describe what the points shown on the screen <actually are> if they are not acquired data points!!  If the dots are totally synthetic, what on earth are the designers thinking!  I can't even imagine what they must be showing me, if those dot displays are not actual sampled points.

You said: "all china DSOs (except Rigol 6000) are sampling always with fixed and highest sample rate of the ADCs, the resulting information is just “converted” to kind of sample rate information on the display (if available).  So actually you can’t undersample,"

I'll deal with this in two parts, the "So you actually can't under-sample" part first:

1:  I think this is not a good way of understanding what is happening.  Any DSO can under-sample.  I don't care who argues, any DSO can alias and show nonsense - I've done it myself and seen it on 1GS/s scopes with 500MHz bandwidth and huge memory that cost $70,000!!  I don't wish to sound horrible, but there can no argument about this.  It is a fact of the universe, like the speed of light.  If you sample in anyway, you can get alias.  We can get into a detailed argument about Nyquist criteria, but I think this may bore the forum senseless.  It is pretty easy to describe in simple language.  Digitising isn't actually complex in practical use, if you think a bit first.  If you sample less than 10 points of any cycle of a repeating waveform, or of a rising or falling edge, you will have a poor understanding of what is actually there.  If you know there is a simple square wave, then maybe 8 points is enough, let's not argue about exact numbers, but how many data points on a graph paper allows you to draw what looks like the signal at the input socket.  You can argue 8 or 10 samples, whatever, you need enough samples for your application, otherwise you don't really know what is there.  Nyquist criteria is two sample points per since wave cycle using sinx/x interpolation and brick wall low pass filtering - this is entirely academic, as sharp low pass filters are quite difficult at RF frequencies, and a DSO input bandwidth is a slow roll off, not a brick wall.  Despite my scope being 3dB down at 100MHz, if there is a large signal at 1000MHz at my input terminal, some of it will get to the ADC.  Therefore alias is quite possible and I maintain, fairly common, just most people aren't aware of it!  Depending on the circumstances of each acquisition, the alias may not be very serious, or it can make the screen display a total lie, it all depends on the exact circumstances, the input waveform and the scope settings.  That is why I want to know what the actual sample rate is, so I can know if I can trust the that the screen is showing me a <real> result.  If you work with fast non-repetitive pulses from scientific radiation detectors, like I do, this isn't just a pointless argument, it really matters to people - not just me.

2:"all china DSOs (except Rigol 6000) are sampling always with fixed and highest sample rate of the ADCs, the resulting information is just “converted” to kind of sample rate information on the display"  OK, thanks for the information, but this doesn't really mean anything important about aliasing or undersampling.  I don't care how fast the ADC runs, if you decimate the data coming from the ADC, and store the points in memory, what matters for alias is the time interval between data points.  If you are acquiring waveforms at a slow timebase setting, and the memory is set to 4k, then the time between samples is (timebase x 16divisions) / 4000 = time between samples.  Then 1 / (timebetweensamples) = samplerate.  This doesn't care if the original ADC ran at 1nS per sample, what is in the memory and what is displayed to the screen is what determines aliasing.  I hope this makes is clearer.  It is perfectly possible to undersample on any DSO, no matter what the ADC hardware speed.  At slower time base settings, the sample rate is basically determined by the amount of memory available for filling.  Logically, longer memory is better.  There are some compromises with the Hantek/Tekway for long memory, but they don't make it clear when and how those compromises happen, an information screen is absolutely necessary!

OK, this is enough for one post, as I have run over some big concepts that take time to think over.

Basically, I believe that a DSO should work for the user, not against the user.   Most Chinese models I have seen don't seem to do this.  It is a shame, I have no trouble with cost based limitations to a design.  Honest disclosure shows respect for the customer.  Would you get into an aeroplane that had "aerobatic" written on it without knowing the exact limits for vertical and inverted acceleration??? *laughs*

Cheers, Colin
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: carloscuev on May 06, 2011, 01:13:50 am
Hello, I've been using my DST1102B (my first scope :D) to design a microcontrolled buck converter and everything has been pure sweetness. The only things ths bugs me is when you save to USB, why does it save a .bmp and .gif of the picture? I can do just fine with .gif, Is there any way to make it only save .gif file? Or better ! is there any way to get fast oscillograph screenshots in the PC without using the slow TTScope?

I've found a way to use Tekway's TTScope in windows 7, Just copy and rename:
<Hantek's TTScope Installation Dir>\config\DSO5202B_eng.ini
to
<Tekway's TTScope Installation Dir>\config\DST1202B_eng.ini

This way I can use Tekway's TTScope, but it's still slow :( I suspect the scope sends *.bmp screenshots instead of some type of compressed image. Is there any third party software ?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: clonecrp on May 06, 2011, 02:00:17 am
Hey Colin ... Whew coosh !

Thanks for the info as appreciated by all but ... me ... personally .... ???
I simply want to change my Hantek from 100 to 200  do you have any advice on that ...?

Please advise...'
Thanks !
Doug
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: AnotherRFman on May 06, 2011, 06:49:06 am
Hi Carlos

When you say you have found a way to use Tekway's TTScope with Windows 7, do you mean Windows 7  32 bit or 64 bit. I have had it working with 32 bit Windows 7 from the outset but like other members, I am sweating on the 64 bit version becoming available so I can run it on my desktop machine too.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: carloscuev on May 06, 2011, 07:02:12 am
Sorry, Win 7 32-bit. Mine wasn't working, dunno why.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 07, 2011, 01:41:29 am
Tinhead,You saw that my upload files?Because i didn't have enough power to do that now. Only if i need to  enough to know to  do it .Can you tell me what the difference is between the received files and your previously  files,and reciprocal measures ?(if you can post the better nandflash backup file of dst1602, so much the better.)I only know a little Linux.used all your upgrade applications, always  reported error code . I don't know what Tekway did?

yes i saw and got it, i will check on weekend (quite busy right now)

ccatt

sorry, but due some undone projects there was no time for fun, i will take a look this weekend.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 07, 2011, 01:43:19 am
Tinhead ...

Removed my new Hantek DSO5102B from shipping container here .... applied power .... the display is quite nice at quick look.
... looking around etc ... I notice Acquire Menu - 1M LongMem is not supported by the model. Is this a SW, HW issue or both ?

Very Interesying Features  ;D ... I think I am going to like this

Probably will do Power Supply mods this week ... got the TI PTH04070WAH Chip as sample.

Comments Please ...

Thanks!
Doug
DSO5102B doen support 1M only in one chan mode, so if even this did'nt work then you have an issue with your DSO (if so, tell me fw version)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 07, 2011, 01:47:18 am
Hi Tinhead.

I've been waiting for the Windows 7 64 bit driver for TTScope. Do you know if this has been released.

Thanks for all the work that you do for us. I also wouldn't have a Tekway 200MHz oscilloscope if it wasn't for you.

RFman.

The drivers isn't really that complex, should be not a big deal to develope 64bit version, unfortunately their
to-do list seems to be much longer than free resources :(

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 07, 2011, 02:03:42 am

1:  I think this is not a good way of understanding what is happening.  Any DSO can under-sample.  I don't care who argues, any DSO can alias and show nonsense - I've done it myself and seen it on 1GS/s scopes with 500MHz bandwidth and huge memory that cost $70,000!!  I don't wish to sound horrible, but there can no argument about this. 

sure, that's what these chinese DSOs are doing is like a combination of flat and gausian response. It is far from perfect, but we should not
forget - that low cost DSOs.


It is a fact of the universe, like the speed of light. 


typical humans ... everything beyond horizon is not possible :)


If you sample in anyway, you can get alias. 


and of course you can see alias on these DSOs, no doubt. One of the good things in Hantek/Tekway DSOs is hardware freq. counter,
for most ppl the freq. diff on both display should be an indicator for "somethign wrong on the display".


There are some compromises with the Hantek/Tekway for long memory, but they don't make it clear when and how those compromises happen, an information screen is absolutely necessary!


yeah, that's again price driven issue. Actually for real 1M on full speed they should add some additional SRAMs, FPGA should be a bit faster too.
But they just can't, nobody would even think about to buy chinese DSO for 3k $ if there is Tek or Agilent for same price, just because of brand name.



Basically, I believe that a DSO should work for the user, not against the user.   Most Chinese models I have seen don't seem to do this.  It is a shame, I have no trouble with cost based limitations to a design.  Honest disclosure shows respect for the customer.  Would you get into an aeroplane that had "aerobatic" written on it without knowing the exact limits for vertical and inverted acceleration??? *laughs*


i saw so many errors or strange menu on brand name DSOs, even such nice things like touch screen are useless (at least for me) - sometimes
is hard to understand what the developer was thinking (or not) in first place.

I think for you the best would be to get something like an Agilent DSOX3000, there is enough memory running with full speed, much faster waveform
refresh and some nice addons.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 07, 2011, 02:15:29 am
Hello, I've been using my DST1102B (my first scope :D) to design a microcontrolled buck converter and everything has been pure sweetness. The only things ths bugs me is when you save to USB, why does it save a .bmp and .gif of the picture? I can do just fine with .gif, Is there any way to make it only save .gif file? Or better ! is there any way to get fast oscillograph screenshots in the PC without using the slow TTScope?

I've found a way to use Tekway's TTScope in windows 7, Just copy and rename:
<Hantek's TTScope Installation Dir>\config\DSO5202B_eng.ini
to
<Tekway's TTScope Installation Dir>\config\DST1202B_eng.ini

This way I can use Tekway's TTScope, but it's still slow :( I suspect the scope sends *.bmp screenshots instead of some type of compressed image. Is there any third party software ?

fro Win 7 32bit the software from Hantek website is working perfect. The DSO5102B is still sending back identification "DST1102B",
which req. of course proper ini file. Normally this file was included within the TTScope setup, probably again someone updated and forgot
to add everything - work around is exact what you did.


Regards the screenshots, the DSO is doing BMP from the captured memory, then bmptoppm and ppmtogif :) Sounds crazy but that's the out-of-the-box
tools on linux, so of course the developer could not resist to use them. You can rename the bmptoppm and ppmtogif to something, so you will get only bmp -
or you have to patch firmware to remove the bmp after conversion. However, on the to-do list for future firmwares is an option to select what
will be saved during quick action "save to usb" (picture or/and bin/text file), let's hope this will be implemented soon.

Actually there is a way to get the sampled data from the USB port (and a way to do many custom things), there is a someone working
already on custom SDK, many things are already working but as he is doing without any support from Hantek is costs reverse engineering time.
The good news is, it will be soon published, so please be patient.


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ccatt on May 07, 2011, 03:52:43 am
I see.Creation of files takes time.Thanks so much for your time.Compared with a layman myself.your efficiency will Be multiplied several times or even more than .
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: colinbeeforth on May 07, 2011, 02:45:56 pm

Hi tinhead,

I said:  "There are some compromises with the Hantek/Tekway for long memory, but they don't make it clear when and how those compromises happen, an information screen is absolutely necessary!"

Than you said:  "yeah, that's again price driven issue. Actually for real 1M on full speed they should add some additional SRAMs, FPGA should be a bit faster too.
But they just can't, nobody would even think about to buy chinese DSO for 3k $ if there is Tek or Agilent for same price, just because of brand name."

I am not complaining for the sake of it, I understand the compromises in hardware.  I understand memory write times, bus settling times, refresh etc.  I have no problem with compromises used to keep things at a cost the market will pay for.  That's just normal engineering.  Oh, and compared to other Chinese DSOs, Hantek/Tekway are paragons of virtue, some other DSOs are really total rubbish.

Anyway, I've found that so long as you are only using 4k, the FFT screen does show a sample rate.  Why can't they put that on the normal acquisition screen, it wouldn't cost anything?  Why would it wreck their sales?  It 's probably also got a lot to do with culture and their manufacturing environment.

I've been doing some tests with the Hantek DSO, using random fast pulses lately, and like you said, it works fairly well.  However, if we all shrug and go on, it won't teach Chinese manufacturers to make better products.  In 20 years time, if they are open to learning from their customers, they will make better products, and give us good stuff at a reasonable price.  But, we need to tell them what is needed.

Hey, if I had more money, I'd buy Agilent in a heartbeat.  But I don't have that option.  My LeCroy 9310 is really clever, really nice, but only 100MS/S.  Maybe I'm spoiled.  Sadly, the LeCroy power supply maker has gone bust, the switched mode supply has a horrible custom thick film controller (I hate vendor lock in! grr!), it can't be repaired easily, and if it fails, I could buy 4 or 5 Hanteks for the cost of one repair...  So that's why I am looking at the cheaper end of the market.

Thanks again for the excellent work you have done in exploring the software environment of the DSOs, I wish I was better at software, but I'm more of a hardware guy.  Shame we don't live in the same city, we could have some interesting discussions I think.  Oh, it might help if I say that in test equipment and calibration, I like to know - know for sure, not just guess, but you probably figured that out. *waves and smiles*

Cheers, Colin

PS: Maybe I'll send some more email to Hantek, it hasn't done much good yet.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Gall on May 08, 2011, 02:27:39 pm
In fact, almost all issues of HanTekWay are software issues. An alternative firmware (maybe including FPGA/CPLD as well, maybe not) could solve them. Hope HanTekWay will eventually go open-source.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: alm on May 08, 2011, 04:28:46 pm
Hope HanTekWay will eventually go open-source.
Why would they do that? What would be the incentive? Most Chinese companies are even more restrictive about documentation and details than companies like Tek and Agilent, and even they have never released the source as far as I know, even when they published full schematics.

The only exception is WELEC, but that's only because they went bankrupt before releasing a good firmware version, and I don't think the open source version is really usable for end users yet. Not sure how much of the firmware they actually released.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 08, 2011, 04:51:40 pm
sooner or later Hantek/Tekway will fix these bugs. For some reason the joined dev. team has to start from scratch, so the original developer "rgj" is not supporting them anylonger ( i guess Hantek thought "we can do it by ourself").
Currently they fixing home made errors, which is typical for learning process when you "overtake" development.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Gall on May 09, 2011, 02:21:18 pm
I guess that's why they haven't releases the SDK yet - they just don't have all the sources anymore. I saw such a situation once, I was the one who had to develop new software after the previous main developer ... (to be polite) retired and left only binary compiled version to us.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 09, 2011, 03:16:42 pm
I guess that's why they haven't releases the SDK yet - they just don't have all the sources anymore. I saw such a situation once, I was the one who had to develop new software after the previous main developer ... (to be polite) retired and left only binary compiled version to us.

it is of course hard to get internal informations, but in principle every company worldwide is doing exact the same -
1.you buy a company,
2.you plan merger,
3.you fire people because you don't need additional staff,
4.you will get blamed by customers/your product is not "working"
5.you hire contractors because you don't know what to do,
6.you hire again old teams to fix issues.

The good news is - Hantek is already between stage 5 and 6 (they did tried to fix some firmware issues and produced new once,
they released interim non-public fw versions (especially for new hardware) with big bugs, so finally they dropped pants and told the truth
to distributors about development issues due insuficient staff. That's fair enough and good starting point).

From what i know they have definitely SoC sources and at least CPLD/FPGA binaries and documentaton. Which is in principle enough to compile new
firmware (SoC) versions and to publish SDK, but not sufficient to change hardware revisions. The plan was to publish SDK end of jaunuary,
however due the internal dev. team issues they worked on bug fixing and new hardware revision (which caused new bugs).
Finally they deleted all firmwares from web page, dropped pants, and focused on the "right way to work". This is again a good example
for chinese companies, they working much faster than wester-world companies. I'm working since years with Fortune 100 companies on big projects,
and to be very honest within 6 months you will not get even trough all meetings, still light years far away from real work.
Hantek managed to buy, merge, produce mistakes, drop pants, hire people within 8 months which is incredible fast!,
this is in my opinion another one reason to trust their products
.

This means for us, we have to wait - for official SDK from Hantek/Tekway or for custom partial-SDK which is almost ready.
A user from this forum spend tons of hours decompiling the firmware and documenting things, let's hope he will publish it soon.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Bored@Work on May 09, 2011, 08:07:34 pm
I have no sympathy for companies losing their source code. It is simply gross mismanagement when this happens. Firing people is no excuse for losing assets like source code. In fact, there is no excuse. It is not rocket science keeping track of source code, and the principles aren't new. More like known since 30 or 40 years.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: bilko on May 09, 2011, 08:18:56 pm
It sounds like they don't do version control either else they would have the archives. The implications are that they can't backtrack and fix bugs properly, hence flaky f/w
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 09, 2011, 08:36:08 pm
I have no sympathy for companies losing their source code. It is simply gross mismanagement when this happens. Firing people is no excuse for losing assets like source code. In fact, there is no excuse. It is not rocket science keeping track of source code, and the principles aren't new. More like known since 30 or 40 years.

i didn't said they losed source code. Middle of the merger process Hantek designed new hardware revision, and for some reason made
some mistakes within interim firmware, errors which can only happens if you have no sources or if you fired developers
(and new team have not yet "assimilated" the source). As they published in same time some public firmwares they must have at
least part of the source - that's why i said "at least" in my org. posting.

On the other side i know they build new joined team, which means normaly fired some ppl - at least contractors.
The org. developer "rgj" seems to be a contractor. In some countries as contractor you don't own the sources, in some you do.
So it might be that Tekway originaly bought only part of the source, but it can be that they own all sources and the new dev. team
just not managed to understand the source in proper way (which can easily happens in such complex design).
The good part of the story is that they finally recognized this "internal issue", bad aspect of this story that they losed time,
so we will have to wait for bug-free firmware, netwrok support within firmware and SDK a bit longer than promised (and planed by HanTekway).

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 09, 2011, 08:42:11 pm
It sounds like they don't do version control either else they would have the archives. The implications are that they can't backtrack and fix bugs properly, hence flaky f/w

if you disassemble or decompile the firmware you will see many "improvisations" and things that didn't make sense, version control can
only help if you documment your source and of course don't use such "fast bugfix mechanism" for issue resolution.
In the real world, now talking about over 10yrs experience with Fortune 100 companies, something like that didn't exists.
Sure version control exists, but nobody really cares about clean programming - time to fix is important as this costs money!
So why chinese company should be different? No reason at all.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: bilko on May 09, 2011, 09:33:17 pm

Sure version control exists, but nobody really cares about clean programming - time to fix is important as this costs money!
So why chinese company should be different? No reason at all.


Clean programming = faster time to fix.
If you let developers run all over the code they cause all sorts of problems and make more bugs than they fix. I worked in industrial automation software development for over 30 years and yes clients were all blue chip automotive and aerospace manufacturers with downtime in the region of $20,000 to $50,000 per minute.
Time to fix was of the essence or people would get laid off.

Not running a proper documented source and VCS is bad and expensive for business and should not be encouraged. The only time it is acceptable is when prototyping or producing products for personal use.

Probably another good reason that HanTekway should release the API, they can concentrate on the hardware and let the developer community decide the functionality of the equipment. Both sides win.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 09, 2011, 11:55:00 pm
Probably another good reason that HanTekway should release the API, they can concentrate on the hardware and let the developer community decide the functionality of the equipment. Both sides win.

full ack, and afaik they got during last days some proposals, up to them to decide. In my opinion is not a shame to let ppl help you,
it is a shame to ignore it.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: bilko on May 10, 2011, 12:31:31 am
full ack, and afaik they got during last days some proposals, up to them to decide. In my opinion is not a shame to let ppl help you,
it is a shame to ignore it.

There is absolutely no way that HanTekWay can accumulate the knowledge of thousands of developers on the Internet. Their product will see applications that they never dreamed of. Investing software time for them is a pure waste of money and resources. How can they charge more because of their software 'enhancements'. Its still the same hardware and still the same company. Releasing the API and a 'scope development kit' would attract customers from education, industry, R&D. There isn't a product on the market as capable within this price band. Lets hope that they see sense and pursue this market.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: drieg on May 10, 2011, 12:52:07 pm
Hello to all HanTekWayMen! ;)

I've been watching this thread with interest for some time already and I just could not resist any longer from getting one of these units.
Nice work, tinhead! (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)

In fact I got couple of them. They all are Tekway DST1062B model with English front panel and the DST1102B set of resistors (Rinp = 33R/12R, Ropa = 301R/39R, Rtrig = 100R).

There is a new PCB version inside (Ver1.00.5 2010/11/30, 012-00193FH) which seems to be "ready" for ethernet-on-board and also other stuff (audio AC'97 codec, SD Card interface, 2nd USB,...).

If there is anybody looking for a good price and service in EU, just let me know...

Regards,
drieg.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on May 10, 2011, 01:13:11 pm
Nice to see that there read Hantek. ;)

I have some (100MHz) units with Hantek front panel.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: colinbeeforth on May 11, 2011, 08:55:27 am
I think proper CVS saves time, money and big disasters.  If you lose a critical programmer, others can pick up the threads.  My wife works on software for scheduling nation wide transport systems.  Without CVS, the company would be a train wreck!  Like yachtronics says, only excuse for not using CVS is prototyping or personal projects.  tinhead suggests that many "real world" companies don't do this.  I think he may be right, but the reason why it is needed is in his evidence of bugs and inexplicable software.  It just proves how important discipline in programming is.  It sounds like the Hantek/Tekway source is in a pretty bad way.  It would explain why my scope crashes several times a day, when my LeCroy crashes maybe once per year.  For the LeCroy 93XX scope, the previous 94XX series software was ported across with big rebuilds in the display technology and waveform processing in 3 weeks with a team of 7 guys.  I was told there were some bugs, but I had 9310 serial number 013 for one year, demonstrating it to customers, and I never saw a single bug.  It might help that the team of 7 guys were all Swiss, so maybe there was a culture of precision.  However, to port, modify and extend the software in only 3 weeks with so few bugs shows what can be done.

In reality, the Hantek/Tekway DSO must have far less complex software than the LeCroy, as it does only a fraction of the waveform maths and processing that my 9310 can do.  I know there is better hardware support for averaging in the LeCroy, but it can handle 50k acquisitions without limitations.  Curiously, the Hantek/Tekway also has an ARM processor which must run rings around the LeCroy's old 68020 20 meg processor.  I'm not being critical of anyone, I'm sure the developers of the Hantek/Tekway are trying their best with cost limits to hardware and personnel, but I can't help but think that there is much more potential to be released from that machine and it wouldn't cost so much more to do it.  Don't get me wrong, it's far better then many other products, but it could be a work beating product if the software exploited the hardware to best performance.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 11, 2011, 10:26:59 am
yep, the current fw version have some bugs. Hantek got a long list with bug description and "promised" to fix it within 2 weeks :)
The current version (well, the last whcih was av. on Hantek website) is crashing only once a day instead of few per day,
but still not sufficient. Some measuring ugly bugs are fixed, but others not.

In pirnciple evey version since 2.6.0 have some bugs, the best is still 2.5.x which was developed by Tekway before they got bought by Hantek and (probably) before the developer got replaced - bit less functions but very stable. However, 2.5.x have hard coded english and chinese, 2.6.x not (languages module based) - that's alreay one of the error sources, additionaly the new menu functions are not clean implemented, seems that the return path is lost sometimes producing of course crash.
FPGA/CPLD and Linux are still working, just the GUI crashing, so "only" some part need to be fixed.



Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: colinbeeforth on May 13, 2011, 06:02:40 am
Interesting, I've been checking what sample rate is in operation at different timebase settings and found some oddness with my Hantek DSO5102B 100MHz DSO.

In all the DSOs I've ever seen, the rules are straightforward, if not exactly simple.  Since the amount of acquisition memory is the limiting factor at low timebase settings and the maximum sample rate is the main limiting factor at high timebase settings, the links between these things is as follows:

Number of sample points = time/div x number of divisions (16 in Hantek/Tekway) / time between sample points (or 1/sample rate)

So what normally happens is at low timebase settings, the acquisition memory is filled full or near enough (as the maths don't always work out to exactly fill the available memory).  As you increase each step in timebase setting, the digitiser gets one step faster and the acquisition memory is filled again or near enough.  Eventually, you reach a timbase setting where the sample rate is it its maximum.  The next timebase setting upwards will cause the acquisition memory to not be filled as much, because the sample rate must remain the same, but you will acquire sample over a shorter amount of time.  Eventually, you have to stop at the highest timebase setting when the total amount of memory sampled isn't too low to show across the screen.  For example on a 16 division screen, showing only 16 points would not be very useful, so you have to decide what upper setting to use as a maximum.

What I have found with my Hantek, in single channel 4k memory mode, is this rule is followed at various timebase settings until it reaches 2 uS, when the sample rate is 100MS/S, and the total memory acquired in each 'sweep' is 3200 points.  See what I mean, (2 uS x 16)/10 nS = 3200 (at 100MS/S, the time between points is 10nS)  It doesn't always work out to give 4000.  This is quite normal in all DSOs and just their basic internal mechanics at work.

On my Hantek DSO5102B, at every timebase setting up to and including 2uS, the sample rate is a 1, 2.5 , 5 sequence, like 1MS/S, 2.5MS/s, 5MS/S.

At timebase setting of 800nS, the sample rate switches to 200MS/s, and breaks the pattern of the 23 timebase settings below.
At timebase setting of 400nS, the sample rate switches to 400MS/S.
At timebase setting of 200nS, the sample rate switches to 800MS/S.

From 200nS.div up to 8nS/div, the sample rate stays stuck at 800MS/S.
Finally, at the top timebase setting of 4uS per div, (100MHz model limit) the sample rate jumps to 1GS/S.

Now, this is where it is quite odd and hard to understand.  At 800nS/div, it should be using 250MS/S and at 400nS/div it should be 500MS/S, then for all settings above 200nS it should be 1GS/S.

Strangely for a DSO specced at 1GS/S, you only actually get it at one timebase setting, with many more high speed timebase settings being 800MS/S.

When I first saw a Tekway  scope, I only saw the max sample rate of 800MS/S, so I suspected the manufacturer of cheating on their spec sheet.  I obviously missed trying it at the top 4nS timebase setting.  However, this was a lot of the reason why I didn't buy one six months ago when I saw a demo.  I thought if they would fudge the spec, they would not be trustworthy in other ways.

Now I am beginning to understand, with the help of tinhead's reports on the background of the development group, what has been happening.  It looks to me like they may have lots of software and maybe electronics engineering talent, but somehow have missed to have anyone with strong experience using scopes and test equipment, or with experience of how many other makers work their hardware.  By being different, it upsets customer's expectations.  I used to sell LeCroy DSO against HP and Tek, so I know how many difficult questions customers ask.  They don't just shrug and buy for cheapest price, they really want to know how they work, so they can make a good comparison between different offerings on the market.  Mind you, I am talking about technical and engineer customers.

While I understand that my experience probably isn't the average DSO buyer, and the Hantek will still seem ok to a non-critical or inexperienced user, there are many many experienced technicians and engineers, who will find this scope a bit weird.

I have some guesses as to why the timebase shifts like it does, but without any real information, they remain guesses.  I don't see why the time base gets stuck at 800MS/S.  It should go straight to 1GS/S only limited by the amount of acquisition memory selected.

I'm sure all these modern cheaper DSOs have limitations with memory at fast digitising speed.  4K shows up because it is likely the maximum of fast RAM available in the FPGA chip.  We are talking about very fast data, 1GS/S means an 8 bit data word every 1 nanosecond.  Light travels 30cm in that time, no RAM in the world can cope with 1 nanosecond write times!  All sorts of engineering cleverness is needed to get this to work.  But this means memory size limits, you can't use big cheap DRAM, it's not fast enough at all.  My LeCroy will acquire 50k per channel at fastest time base setting.  It took a lot of demultiplexing to achieve that with static RAM.  At 1GS/S, eight ADCs will deliver an 8 bit word every 8 nanoseconds each.  Even 8 nanoseconds is faster than the fastest silicon SRAM I've seen and far faster than cheaper DRAM.  This little scope is going like blazes to do what it does, so that is very impressive, but no doubt needs tricks to get it to work, and those tricks means some limitations.  Limitations that we have to live with.  I far prefer it when a manufacturers are open and honest about their products' limitations, you feel like you can trust them for taking you into their confidence.

I have sent all this information to Hantek and had helpful replies for them, they know there are some difficulties but seem keen to sort them out.  So I agree with tinhead, they are trying, and maybe a little patience will get us a better result.  It does show you how difficult the world market is though for Chinese manufacturers.  By comparision, Agilent would never send a scope out the door without being totally sure it was up to the standard of an experienced engineer -  But they charge 5 or 10 times as much and Hantek/Tekway is far cheaper.  It reminds me of the old engineer's saying, you can have good, fast, and cheap, pick any two!

Many people underestimate how logn good software takes, but What amazes me is this:  I recently looked at Geoff Graham's website:  http://geoffg.net/ (http://geoffg.net/)  He has done a brilliant job of creating a neat small computer for many different jobs, it was in Silicon Chip recently.  He devised a complete Basic command line interpreter in 8 days!!!  There was about 3 weeks of study behind that plus a lifetime of software experience, but it does make you think.  Software seems to be hard to me, but to some people, it isn't so difficult.  Trying to get the complex programmable hardware in the Hantek DSO to work effectively would be more tricky I'm sure, but you've got a 400MHz ARM processor to help do it with, that is a serious resource.  My LeCroy runs rings around the Hantek with a 20MHz 68020 for maths capability - granted it gets some hardware help for some tasks, but it's 20 times slower, both are 32 bit, and ARM has inbuilt support for LCD displays if I remember correctly.  It should be capable of getting near to LeCroy's signal processing capability!  My Hantek crashes twice a day, my LeCroy maybe once per year, I can't actually remember the last time it crashed.

Maybe Hantek should offer a basic system software and sell an optional maths processing addition, like LeCroy used to sell their scopes.  That would pay for the extra development costs.  Then again, I like the idea of them offering an SDK, there are enough open source smart engineers out there who will happily create a magnificent operating system, and it won't cost Hantek anything.  Building a user community around a product will create it's own success.  It would be first choice over all the other competing Chinese products then.  I can hope.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on May 13, 2011, 06:38:20 am
Quote
From 200nS.div up to 8nS/div, the sample rate stays stuck at 800MS/S.
Finally, at the top timebase setting of 4uS per div, (100MHz model limit) the sample rate jumps to 1GS/S.

AFAIK to 20ns/div it use 100MHz clock.
8, 4 (and2) ns/div it use 125MHz clock for ADC's

I have measured it directly from  ADC's clock lines. (FPGA produce these 8 (4) interleaved clock signals with PLL from 100MHz base time base.)

so, not only 4ns/div.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 13, 2011, 10:58:29 am

Number of sample points = time/div x number of divisions (16 in Hantek/Tekway) / time between sample points (or 1/sample rate)...
What I have found with my Hantek, in single channel 4k memory mode, is this rule is followed at various timebase settings until it reaches 2 uS,
when the sample rate is 100MS/S, and the total memory acquired in each 'sweep' is 3200 points. 
See what I mean, (2 uS x 16)/10 nS = 3200 (at 100MS/S, the time between points is 10nS)  It doesn't always work out to give 4000. 
This is quite normal in all DSOs and just their basic internal mechanics at work.


if you count like that, you should count what behind the menu, the scope is always using this area, menu is only overlay displayed (click F0 to hide it).




I'm sure all these modern cheaper DSOs have limitations with memory at fast digitising speed.  4K shows up because it is likely the maximum of fast RAM available in the FPGA chip.  We are talking about very fast data, 1GS/S means an 8 bit data word every 1 nanosecond.  Light travels 30cm in that time, no RAM in the world can cope with 1 nanosecond write times!  All sorts of engineering cleverness is needed to get this to work.  But this means memory size limits, you can't use big cheap DRAM, it's not fast enough at all. 


Generally spoken this didn't matter because of ADC hold function, the waveform per seconds time (up to 2500 wfrm/s) is describing how fast the data will get collected and processed,
the dead time between can be used for whatever (haven't analyzed how this actuall design works) - the DSO can continuously sample until 4k are full or it can sample/hold every 1ns
The FPGA can handle both, that's only 8 x 8bit data, refreshed every 125MHz on each ADC where the FPGA can sample i/o with 250MHz.


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: carloscuev on May 13, 2011, 12:37:04 pm
Hello everyone, I've made the recommended PSU update from tinhead (thanks a lot again for your dedication), well half of it because I didn't had all components in hand and didn't got component needs to spend 40 bucks at mouser to get free shipping (In my country $40.00 USD is the minimum for free shipping)

I didn't had electrolytic caps, so no upgrade there.
The DC-DC Converter capacitors I used are tantalum Low-ESR TPSA106K010R1800
Yes, I know 10uF is not the recommended 47uF, but I think it's enough if the converter is not going to be used at full 3A rated current.
I think I've made a really nice dead-bug soldered module ;)

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8016/dscn0406z.th.jpg) (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/dscn0406z.jpg/) (http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5361/dscn0402y.th.jpg) (http://img268.imageshack.us/i/dscn0402y.jpg/) (http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9393/dscn0410p.th.jpg) (http://img829.imageshack.us/i/dscn0410p.jpg/)

Module's trimmer is fine tuned to get 3.300v (if my meter is well calibrated, which I think so)
Unfortunately I didn't took screenshots of the same signal before and after the mod (after the mod I executed a self-calibration)
Maybe it's my imagination, but I really see the waveforms (of the current project I'm working on) with less noise and they look better!

Happy hacks everyone !!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 13, 2011, 12:40:49 pm
Some ppl asked how the DSOs will get manufacturer calibrated, so i decided to look inside the fw.

What i found is nice feature allowing to extend the analog bw. As already said before these DSOs are using variable gain amplifier in
the input stage in combination with digital filter to cut the bw. Each model is having then two kind of settings within the firmware,
the vag opamp settings and digital filter max corner frequency. We can't (easily) manipulate vag settings, but we can use
something what will be afaik used for test and calibration to change the max bw.

How it works:
simply create a file "tst" in root directory of the DSO OS (/tst), edit this file like following

[filter] x

where x is the digital filter max corner frequency (it will be normally read from model, where for example DST1102B
is setting the x to 10 (x10) = 100MHz. This "tst" file is overwritting (temporairy in the memory, so no change to firmware)
the model based settings, so you can use higher values. Of course the VAG opamp will not allow to have flat frequency
response but you will be able to do e.g. FFT or avg. sampling up to 450MHz.

Everything above 450MHz didn't really matter, the overclocked ADCs can not handle much more.
With such setting ( [filter] 45 ) in the tst file my DSO is allowing to capture 400MHz singnals (with -15db attenuation )
and 300MHz signals (with -9db attenuation).

The best rise time with such mod is about 1.05ns (pulse generator), giving 333MHz bw which seems to be
good but in principle we have still -3db on 220MHz, -6db on 250MHz, -9db 300MHz, -15db 400MHz and falling (instead of digital
filter and vag based brick wall on 300MHz). I did used it for example to control 433MHz carrier signal,
which worked beautiful.

So it is not a true bw hack, but at least something. If you don't have another high bw scope and wish to measure/control
higher freq. this solution is good enough. The hadrware freq. counter (in the bottom status line) is anyway working
stable up to 410MHz.

Btw, the /tst file will be used after reboot - so create it and reboot to enable it. Other values works too, for example
if you wish to cut the bw for some reason. Afaik there are other interessting options like disabling of single
ADCs (might be usefull for those who have no warranty ...) or skew time calibration, more later.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 13, 2011, 02:25:29 pm
What i found is nice feature allowing to extend the analog bw. As already said before these DSOs are using variable gain amplifier in
the input stage in combination with digital filter to cut the bw...

where x is the digital filter max corner frequency (it will be normally read from model, where for example DST1102B
is setting the x to 10 (x10) = 100MHz. This "tst" file is overwritting (temporairy in the memory, so no change to firmware)
the model based settings, so you can use higher values. Of course the VAG opamp will not allow to have flat frequency
response but you will be able to do e.g. FFT or avg. sampling up to 450MHz.

Everything above 450MHz didn't really matter, the overclocked ADCs can not handle much more.
With such setting ( [filter] 45 ) in the tst file my DSO is allowing to capture 400MHz singnals (with -15db attenuation )
and 300MHz signals (with -9db attenuation).

The best rise time with such mod is about 1.05ns (pulse generator), giving 333MHz bw which seems to be
good but in principle we have still -3db on 220MHz, -6db on 250MHz, -9db 300MHz, -15db 400MHz and falling (instead of digital
filter and vag based brick wall on 300MHz). I did used it for example to control 433MHz carrier signal,
which worked beautiful....
let me repeat this post. this is interesting stuff and have been in my dream. so tinhead, is that means if the x setting is default to x10, then 400++MHz signal will not be able to be detected? ie low amplifier gain? badly attenuated by firm/software?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 13, 2011, 03:55:33 pm
let me repeat this post. this is interesting stuff and have been in my dream. so tinhead, is that means if the x setting is default to x10, then 400++MHz signal will not be able to be detected? ie low amplifier gain? badly attenuated by firm/software?


100Mhz DSO don't have to detect 400Mhz signals :) Sure, depends on scope and design you might see higher freq. signals,
for Hantek/Tekway 200MHz model the signal disapear from display by about 310Mhz, and actually you can't really trust
in what you see for signals above 250Mhz.

So for the "/tst" file:
x is equal to model bw/10, so for 60MHz models 06, for 100MHz models 10, for 150MHz models 15 and finally for 200MHz models 20.

The firmware is doing exact the same calculations (however tst file is overriding them). These settings are for digital filter (implemented in FPGA),
and such filter will be used by Rigol/Hantek/Tekway/Instek (together with VAG opamp) to realize the brick wall filter to reduce bw.

So in principle, during hack from 100 to 200Mhz the model name changes and as the filter is model name based it will be then set to a
specific corner freq. Unfortunately the VAG opamp settings are not easy to change (except bin patching), so to have flat freq. response
we can maximal set that what the firmware know as highest model (200Mhz for Hantek/Tekway, or 150MHz for Rigol/Instek).
No idea is there is a way for something similar like the /tst file on Hantek for Rigol/Instek scpes, they probably have to be bin patched.

On Hantek/Tekway we have Linux, and the manufacturer luckily implemented easy way to override the filter settings by the /tst file.
Maybe is not something for every day use, but i think it is nice to have. Sure it does work only for 4k short memory,
and for best waveform view avg. mode should be enabled (however 400Mhz signal doesn't looks worse than 200Mhz, only attenuated of course)
and yes it does only work for single chanel (as we need to sample 1GSs to capture 400Mhz) but for those who don't have sampling
scopes or fast analog scopes it might be useful. Even the auto settings works for 400Mhz signals. Sure, measurments results need
to be recalculated, but that's not a big deal (knowing the attenuation values for 250, 300 and 400Mhz).

For a full "300 or 400MHz hack" the VAG opamp part of the firmware should to be changed, therefore i will not call it "hack",
it is just a feature.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 13, 2011, 04:29:37 pm
100Mhz DSO don't have to detect 400Mhz signals :)
you are right. but 1Gs/s should be able to detect 400MHz according to Nyquist.

For a full "300 or 400MHz hack" the VAG opamp part of the firmware should to be changed, therefore i will not call it "hack",
it is just a feature.
for me , it is a hack... that not everybody can do. last question pls. by enabling 400MHz "feature" (ie disabling brick wall filter), will the lower frequency <=200MHz distorted, affected, contaminated? (or whatever you want to call it). edit: ok i just read about the why "dso bw limit", is to avoid noise, but how about flatness, is it affected?

if the answer is no, then i think this is the most stupidiest effort that the manufacturer did. even if the answer is yes, then they still the same by not giving access to user to enable/disable it. my 2cnts.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 13, 2011, 05:25:56 pm
100Mhz DSO don't have to detect 400Mhz signals :)
you are right. but 1Gs/s should be able to detect 400MHz according to Nyquist.

sure, 1GSs scope can do it, even more than this (however the waveform reconstruction will be not the best)
but 100MHz don't have to do it.

for me , it is a hack... that not everybody can do. last question pls. by enabling 400MHz "feature" (ie disabling brick wall filter), will the lower frequency <=200MHz distorted, affected, contaminated? (or whatever you want to call it). edit: ok i just read about the why "dso bw limit", is to avoid noise, but how about flatness, is it affected?

if the answer is no, then i think this is the most stupidiest effort that the manufacturer did. even if the answer is yes, then they still the same by not giving access to user to enable/disable it. my 2cnts.


well, a blue led instead of red is also hack, so you right.

It can be done by everybody who did hacked via UART, because all you need is to connect to the DSO, killall dso.exe,
create the tst file in root dir with [filter] 45, save it and restart dso application by /dso.exe.
You should then see status message "get corner freq ID =45 from filetst ok"
If this works, you can reboot DSO and enjoy the additional (attenuated) bandwidth.

Sure, there is some additional disortion coming from the higher freq., it have to be there anyway,
therefore the avg. mode or equi. sampling should be used for such measurments.

If you don't have necessary equipment to measure for example 400MHz signal this solution will help you,
it is maybe not a every day situation anyway.

The manufacturer have impelmented user selectable digital filter, but the max freq. is on Hantek/Tekway 247Mhz
and it is an additional filter and not the real bw filter. With the custom SDK, which i hope will
be released soon by the forum user "censored for now" everybody would have a chance to implement
for example a simple shell script to enable/disable the /tst file.

As i have my DSO on the network a quick remote execute is good enough for me for now.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 13, 2011, 05:38:35 pm
If you don't have necessary equipment to measure for example 400MHz signal this solution will help you,
yes sure, very sure! it will help alot! -15db is better than nothing. and as you have indicated in earlier post, it did help you.

it is maybe not a every day situation anyway.
yes sure it will not be everyday. but could be a saviour on one particular project in a month.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on May 13, 2011, 07:08:53 pm
A great discussion!  @colinbeeforth: your posts do get people thinking a lot.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 15, 2011, 12:51:39 pm
if the answer is no, then i think this is the most stupidiest effort that the manufacturer did. even if the answer is yes, then they still the same by not giving access to user to enable/disable it. my 2cnts.
i'm sorry. there was a misunderstanding. i was in emotional state that i thought my dso is the same as the discussed hantek. it turned out they are different. but my previous points still stand.

edit: tried to find hantek dso user manual in google but unsuccessful. instead i found this thread is mentioned in hackaday (i did search if its mentioned here, but no) http://hackaday.com/2010/11/24/double-the-hertz-double-the-pleasure/ (http://hackaday.com/2010/11/24/double-the-hertz-double-the-pleasure/) i havent read all the lengthty replies there.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 15, 2011, 02:32:11 pm
if the answer is no, then i think this is the most stupidiest effort that the manufacturer did. even if the answer is yes, then they still the same by not giving access to user to enable/disable it. my 2cnts.
i'm sorry. there was a misunderstanding. i was in emotional state that i thought my dso is the same as the discussed hantek. it turned out they are different. but my previous points still stand.

edit: tried to find hantek dso user manual in google but unsuccessful. instead i found this thread is mentioned in hackaday (i did search if its mentioned here, but no) http://hackaday.com/2010/11/24/double-the-hertz-double-the-pleasure/ (http://hackaday.com/2010/11/24/double-the-hertz-double-the-pleasure/) i havent read all the lengthty replies there.


different ? now i'm lost :)

Hantek user manual is here
http://www.hantek.com.cn/Manual/DSO5000Series/DST%20B%20Series%20Digital%20Storage%20Oscilloscope%20User%20Manual(Ver0.9).pdf (http://www.hantek.com.cn/Manual/DSO5000Series/DST%20B%20Series%20Digital%20Storage%20Oscilloscope%20User%20Manual(Ver0.9).pdf)

Tekway user manual
http://www.tekwayins.net/pic/DST%20B%20Series%20DSO%20User%20Manual(Ver0.9).pdf (http://www.tekwayins.net/pic/DST%20B%20Series%20DSO%20User%20Manual(Ver0.9).pdf)

both have exact the same erros, like wfrm/s (2000 but in real 2500, mentioned in product prospects, review and on the website)
and are of course not updated since 2yrs ... which of course sucks, on the other side why they should update manual if the firmware is chaning weekly.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 15, 2011, 02:43:38 pm
different ? now i'm lost :)
coz mine is rigol :P i thought they come from the same root. i should have check the feature earlier. thanx i got the manual already. i was searching dst1102b keyword earlier.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 15, 2011, 02:49:30 pm
different ? now i'm lost :)
coz mine is rigol :P i thought they come from the same root.

ahh, ok. In principle the digital filter and vag opamp are used in exact same way on Rigol, the stupid thing is that
it is hard to change anything there due the DSP bios (instead of Linux like on HanTekway).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: drieg on May 15, 2011, 08:07:08 pm
"Take it apart!"  ;)

Tekway DST1062B, PCB Ver1.00.5 2010/11/30...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: flolic on May 15, 2011, 08:23:48 pm
Drieg, a little explanation?
You removed BGA package, why?  ;D
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: drieg on May 15, 2011, 08:44:45 pm
...because I like to know how things work and it's easier like this unless you have x-ray eyes ;D
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 15, 2011, 08:55:56 pm
You removed BGA package, why?  ;D
look at the avatar.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: flolic on May 15, 2011, 09:13:36 pm
look at the avatar.

Mecha, I know Drieg is our scope doctor  ;)
But I expected more specific answer from him, like "I removed that chip because...."  :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 15, 2011, 10:52:07 pm
Everything above 450MHz didn't really matter, the overclocked ADCs can not handle much more.
With such setting ( [filter] 45 ) in the tst file my DSO is allowing to capture 400MHz singnals (with -15db attenuation )
and 300MHz signals (with -9db attenuation).

The best rise time with such mod is about 1.05ns (pulse generator), giving 333MHz bw which seems to be
good but in principle we have still -3db on 220MHz, -6db on 250MHz, -9db 300MHz, -15db 400MHz and falling (instead of digital
filter and vag based brick wall on 300MHz).

The "tst" file hack:

i did measured it again, this time with active x10 500MHz probe terminated on 50Ohm instead of direct connection from
signal gen to dso (of course terminated) as in the results above.

As the probe is x10 the DSO internal compensation will be not used, giving a bit better response (filter = 45),

100MHz = 0db
150MHz = 0db
200MHz = 0db
250MHz = -3db
300MHz = -6db
350MHz = -9db
400MHz = -12db

which is really nice (easy to calculate measured vs. real values). I did measured with sinus and square waves, there is about ±0.5db
between both which is fair enough.

The scope internal compensation didn't really work proper above 250Mhz giving fancy results, so it make no sense to
use x1 probes with this hack (above 200mv/div) which i think is good enough for 99.99% applications.
I think the compensation circuit could be adapted to work properly, but honestly i don't see any reason to do this.

So in principle, with proper probes, it is a 250MHz bw hack. For me, as already mentioned was not the extra 50MHz
important but the chance to measure 400MHz signals.


"Take it apart!"  ;)

Tekway DST1062B, PCB Ver1.00.5 2010/11/30...

heh, great, thanks for this picture.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: colinbeeforth on May 16, 2011, 08:22:16 am

Hi tinhead, and all,

Quote
if you count like that, you should count what behind the menu, the scope is always using this area, menu is only overlay displayed (click F0 to hide it).

Ah, thank you!  I had not noticed this.  When you remove the menu display, the trigger point on the screen moves, and I had assumed that it was simply scaling the 16 divisions to fit across the larger screen.  I am totally amazed, now it has 19.5 divisions!  What a strange number, although I can see why, they stick with 40 pixels wide per division.  Whoever devised this system originally must have been taking LSD - 19.5 divisions is so weird. *laughs*  Why supply expensive hardware and acquire waveform in memory, and then cover some of it up most of the time?  I use menus all the time, and so will most users.  I hardly ever switch them off, so the extra 3.5 divisions is a waste of design effort and complexity for no gain.

This gets back to a fundamental aspect of design philosophy.  Call is Colin's law of DSOs if you like!!! *laughs*   However, it is a common principle in many fields, particularly aerospace.  All instruments and DSOs should work so that if the customer is inexperienced, and reacts by doing nothing, he/she will get the best result anyway.  How this would work with the Hantek/Tekway scope would be to remove the 'menu off' F0 button, and leave menus always on.  The software would be simpler, as there is no exception mode.  Show the whole acquired waveform on the available space at all times.  That way, you never have to know anything about the DSO to get it to work at its best.  Why even have a non-menu-shown expanded mode?  It doesn't really contribute much, apart from 2 cm of extra screen space.  Simpler all round and no animals would be harmed!! ;D

This is one thing that intrigues me about the Hantek/Tekway design; 16 divisions (in menu mode), the 2, 4, 8 sequence of timebase settings, all look like it was designed by a programmer used to binary and software, not by a scope engineer.  Partly, I like the fact that it breaks old concepts and shows a willingness to try new things, but also, there are quite a few aspects of this scope that are odd or don't work very well.  It makes me think that the designer didn't have a lot of experience with other DSOs, so wasn't sure of the best way to do many things.  *shrugs* Like you said, we will probably never know.

Quote
Generally spoken this didn't matter because of ADC hold function, the waveform per seconds time (up to 2500 wfrm/s) is describing how fast the data will get collected and processed, the dead time between can be used for whatever (haven't analyzed how this actuall design works) - the DSO can continuously sample until 4k are full or it can sample/hold every 1ns The FPGA can handle both, that's only 8 x 8bit data, refreshed every 125MHz on each ADC where the FPGA can sample i/o with 250MHz.

Not sure what you are trying to say here?  The waveform update rate isn't very important to digital scopes, despite the fact that some mainstream DSO makers try to get you to think it is the only number that matters - it is in their interest to promote their banner spec and get you to ignore so many important things that affect the usefulness of a DSO.  They appeal to our natural desire for simplicity, but it is always a mistake to accept at face value what a salesman is telling you!!  I know, I was one!!  I try very hard to get people to think about DSO operation and specs.  There are many factors, DSOs are not simple!  They cannot be, and they are not an equivalent of an analogue scope.  I think they should be called something else, because they do not work like an analogue scope, but I also realise that this is hoping for too much, the name DSO - we are stuck with it now.   A buyer must know quite a lot to be able to make an informed choice.  This is even more important now since low cost models are becoming available with many built in compromises.  Before, you could trust the big makers to not screw it up too badly, although there were big name DSOs that really weren't very good during the early days of DSOs.  Any DSO will work for a school teacher to show a sine wave.  But to use it, even in hobby deign or repair work, it won't do the important things you really badly need.  Why spend money on a DSO when a cheap analogue scope will do as well and be much easier to use??!!

As another thought about update rate... what is the response time of the LCD display, and how fast are its pixels updated?  I don't have a model number or spec on the display LCD used int he Hantek/Tekway DSOs.  If it is typically around 5mS pixel response time, the fastest update rate that can be seen is limited by the LCD response rate.  1/5mS =2000 changes black to white per second = 1000 hertz of a waveform.  So, the fastest that any pixel can turn on and off, is 1000 times per second.  It makes the very high waveform update rates that Tek and HP have been quoting pretty pointless I think.

I'm not saying update rate is unimportant, just that there are other factors, and some of them are more important.  Update rate does become irrelevant, if the DSO triggers on the feature you want to see.  The real banner spec that differentiates digital scopes from analogue is storage and single shot use.  Update rate is irrelevant to single shot use.  If update rate matters so much to a DSO user, they'll get much better results from an analogue scope.  It only becomes an issue if you have no analogue scope and are stuck with a digital scope as your only tool.  That's another reason why it would be more rational to call digital scopes something else, then inexperienced users wouldn't be fooled into thinking that a DSO is a replacement for an analogue scope.

The Hantek/Tekway screen is 800 x 480, which is enough to be useful, at a reasonable cost.  More vertical resolution would have given the designer more flexibility/  A vertical acquisition is 8 bits, so there are 256 steps, and that can be fitted into the 480 vertical with one_pixel = one_step plus borders etc, quite nicely.  Scopes with vertical resolution less than 256 pixels have a difficult job showing a smooth waveform like a sine wave nicely without showing jaggies.  This does bring up another issue, screen alias.  The actual DSO sample rate while very important for some things isn't relevant for this discussion, if you decimate acquired_memory to fit into a limited number of horizontal pixels, that is a form of sampling also, so alias can occur at the pixel level of the screen, unless some tricks are used like memory_to_display_compression_algorithms.  So alias can happen even just showing things on a screen - it's sampling after all!  That's another reason for my opinion that the Hantek/Tekway screen of 800 horizontal pixels is a reasonable decision.  My LeCroy is 810 lines, with vertical raster scanning!! Yes, it's quite unusual, but it achieves 810 x 696 on a common CRT using cheap raster scan and cheap TV monitor components.  The earlier models used full vector display with no raster scan at all, and gave superb displays, but at an impractical cost.  Having seen and used the earlier LeCroy 94XX series, the 93XX was a reasonable compromise, but it was clearly a compromise, the 94XX screens were beautiful to see and being true vector, made lovely waveforms.  It took a large board chock full of expensive ICs to do it though.  Raster scan wasn't as nice, but it was adequate, so long as the resolution was high enough.  Likewise, I reckon the Hantek/Tekway at 800 x 480 is a reasonable compromise and the addition of colour does help with contrast and waveform identification.  With the earlier LeCroys, the eye saving orange phosphor was ok to use long term, but the lack of colour to identify waveforms could occasionally be a nuisance.  Being able to split the screen vertically into 2 or 4 separate graticules was a big help and largely avoided the need for colour.  Hantek/Tekway are perhaps limited there, since they have fewer vertical pixels, although I would have thought the LeCroy way of doing 2 sets of graticules on one screen would be acceptable on the Hantek/Tekway display.  Again, it's like the original designer of the Hantek/Tekway system didn't know much about what other scope makers had found effective in the past.

On a related subject:  I have an older HP54601A, it was given to me by a very kind colleague, although it had a few faults at the time.  I fixed the faults although that took time and special effort to get an IC that was obsolete, so it shows how even big manufacturers get hit by obsolete chips.  Seems to me that many pieces of equipment are having longer lives than the chip makers would have guessed, as many ICs are made obsolete well before the equipment is gone.

I use the HP DSO it for certain jobs.  It was a major step in the early development of DSOs, when HP were able to produce a low price point DSO that sold heaps of them to schools.  It had a really big green CRT screen, and that is why I use it, my eyes are getting older and big screens with good contrast help.  It has only a very short acquisition memory, so it is quite limited for many jobs.  I use my LeCroy 9310 for any serious work though, and using the HP for simpler jobs and that saves the LeCroy.  The LeCroy is a much larger box and eats up my bench space quickly.  Also, if the LeCroy has a failure, I won't be able to afford a LeCroy replacement or even to fix my 9310 - parts are becoming very expensive for them now, and parts obsolescence is a big problem.  Anyway, this explains why I have some experience with other DSOs.  Also, I had to do serious spec comparison in DSO sales situations, I also have experience with using different DSO designer's concepts.  I don't have any experience with using the most recent models of DSO from the bigger makers, but from some long discussions on this forum with other users I am led to believe that the newer range of HP/Agilent scopes are attractive.  I've also used Tek over the years, and have respect for their fast analogue designs, but I'm afraid I don't like their lunchbox DSO designs.  Even the expensive models (over $3k Australian) don't have any sort of acquisition_memory_to_display_compression_algorithm.  I have an email from Tek support in the USA confirming this, I didn't just dream it.  In other words, if you acquire more than about 320 data points, it must be compressed somehow to get it onto a small number of horizontal pixels of an LCD display.  Most of the earlier LCD displays are 320 wide by 240 (234) high.  So how do Tek get the larger memory to display on the limited number of LCD pixels?  They decimate the available memory data and only show a small percentage of the data on the screen.  For example, if they had (imaginary numbers) 3200 data points, they could show 320, so only 1 in every 10 points is actually displayed.  If there was a glitch, 3 data points wide, and it fell into the 9 out of 10 that didn't get shown, you won't see it on the display.  When I asked the Tek sales-guy in Australia about this, he almost shouted the mantra "but the data isn't lost, it's in the memory and you can see it any time by using waveform zoom".  Now, that is quite true, but why would I go through the often tedious process of winding the zoom pot many turns to perhaps see something that <might> be there, but I saw no evidence of in the first immediate view?  In reality, you will get sick of doing this <for every single acquisition you make>!!  In practice, decimating acquired_memory to fit it onto a small low resolution display is not a good idea.  It is easy on your hardware, so convincing your customer to accept it, saves you cost on hardware so you make more profit.  I prefer engineering the equipment not the customer...  The problem becomes far worse the bigger the acquired memory becomes, yet long memory is incredibly useful for tracing data on serial lines like USB, RS232, I2C...  LeCroy 94XX and 93XX series have always used a proper acquired_memory_to_display_compression_algorithm, which I suspect is why some makers have made such a <big thing> of waveform update rate.  LeCroy take a complete data acquisition run, then break the memory into bins, if the display is say 600 horizontal pixels there are 300 bins.  In each bin they sort out the highest voltage and lowest voltage, and display them on two pixels.  That way, if any amplitude deviation, even one memory bit wide is a high or low flyer, you will see it on the screen.  It won't be a fully accurate representation on the low res screen, but you will see something that will grab your interest, and then you can zoom to see exactly what it it.  That's why the "waveform update rate" is lower on older LeCroy DSOs, because they are taking the time to show you everything you need to know.  That's why I have never owned a Tek DSO.  I can't stand the thought of a glitch being there in the memory and not seeing it immediately, the concept frustrates me just thinking about it, you actually captured the event you want, but can't see it...

I have it confirmed from Rigol, that they decimate their data for display the say way Tek do.  When did a designer ever get sacked for copying Tek?  I still don't think it is a best_practice concept though.  I have it confirmed from GWInstek that they have an acquisition_memory_to_display_compression_algorithm in at least the GDS1000A series DSOs and perhaps other models.  I have seen a demonstration of a Tekway DSO that proves there is some sort of compression algorithm being used - although I have no idea how it works, but it does show very small features in a long memory acquisition on a much reduced number of horizontal display pixels.  I'd love to know how such a system works.

OK, so maybe that is enough for now.  Like I said, the true usability of DSOs is not simple, so the Chinese makers are doing the users a dis-service by not explaining in more detail how their scopes work.  I can understand why they would be concerned about telling their competitors what they are doing, but if they don't tell their customers how good they are, maybe the customers will go elsewhere also.  It all comes down to users becoming better informed and choosing wisely.  For many end users, I can understand why this won't happen, since their applications are undemanding and they don't care to understand a lot of complex details.  At least one well know manufacturer has made a fortune selling scopes that in my personal opinion aren't very clever at all.  Many manufacturers have copied them.  There's no doubt in my mind, that making a lot of noise and shouting about a couple of banner specs wins the day for their sales ledgers.  It all depends on what you are using a scope for.  Final test instruments for an electronics manufacturer, or for a field service technician following a "set this, set this, read waveform" sort of handbook, a cheap poorly designed DSO will do enough to complete the job.  When you don't know what will drop on your workbench tomorrow, or what you are going to be building next month, or working in a research lab, it is a different matter.  Even computer monitors use data speeds that were dreams only a few years ago.  DSOs need a set of design features that makes the scope as flexible as possible, so it earns its price and never leaves that nasty feeling when you simply can't see what you need to see to solve a problem.  In the end, it's the tricky problems that cause you grief, and that's what you spent your money to solve, what's the point in having spent money on a DSO that can show you nice sine waves, which you already understand, but won't show you the spike that is really what is causing the unexplained behaviour of a micro you are working on?  You didn't spend the money to show sine waves, but to show you the things that weren't expected...  LeCroy's early scopes excelled at this, finding things that weren't expected.  They were builders of high energy physics instrumentation first, and I think that motivated a lot of their early work.  I'm not sure the market is the same now, but end users are.

We still need to know that what's on the screen of a  DSO screen is true, and know it will earn its keep in the future when it gets thrown jobs that no-one anticipated.

The Hantek/Tekway is the first cheap DSO I've considered worth spending money on, but the operating software is disappointing in quite a few areas.  It could be so much better!

Cheers, Colin
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 16, 2011, 09:02:59 am
i think it boils down to performance vs cost. as you say it yourself...
It reminds me of the old engineer's saying, you can have good, fast, and cheap, pick any two!
dso maker (hardware and software) can struggle to maximize and perfect the performance. but later they will charge exponential. or they (engineers and management) can ignore it, and let it flow/blend/balance with the market (profit vs cost). its called business, a "contaminated engineering", imho.

you can buy a perfect scope, or buy hantek and get involved in this thread. pick one.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 16, 2011, 12:34:28 pm
Colin,

there are only 19 divs, you miscounted it. We have also 760x400 effective points on the display.
Why ? Probably easier to divide. Of course it could be fixed view area with a bit larger display,
like on Agilent DSOX but on the other side the F0 Menu On/Off marking is big enough to see it :)

To understand why Tekway chose 800x480 display (or why some things are like this and not different) we have to look back.
They new on the market, so probably they started DSO development from business point of view:
- take µC/DSP platform which is wide available and cheap
(Samsung SoC instead of TI DSP - to be different/better and cheaper than competitors)
- create something "known" but at lower price
(like Tektronix clone)
- chose nice company name assiociated with something ppl know.
(like Tek-way ...)

So Tekway was born, and of course the first product was Tektronix clone. They even made some advertisement
like "our Tektronix clone - but cheaper". I do have such Tekway DST1102 too, you can blind navigate through
menu if you know Tektronix TDS2012 - but of course exact the same disadvantages - slow display update rate,
crap display and 2500 points memory. You can still buy some of these DSOs - designed for chinese market (only chinese fw).

However Tekway realized that ppl don't need another one Tektronix clone - to have a chance on DSO market you have
to develop something better than (chinese) competitors. So the actuall series was born.

To not start from scratch they decided to continue work and improve their DST1000 platfrom.
So instead of Samsung S3C2410 (266MHz) like on DST1000 then chose S3C2440 (400Mhz), added external SRAM and CPLD,
faster and bigger FPGA and bigger display. If you look on the Samsung SoC dev. board market you wil find out
the common biggest display at that time was Innolux AT070TN83 - they wide available, good quality and cheap displays.

All these steps are typical for someone who just started on DSO market, they will need some time (or well, with the Hantek
merger they actually got a "good" name, or at least known name) to be real DSO developers/manufacturers.
However, if i do compare to comeptitors they already better than all of them together (uni-t, atten, rigol) - at least on the paper.

Sure, these firmware bugs are not nice - but the platform is good, so it is easier to fix firmware bugs instead of "fix the platform".
I know that earilier firmwares were working much better, sure with some small bugs around F7 button but everything else was ok.
The "disaster" started as they decided to implement more features, more languages, more menu options and tried to
fix alread known small bugs ... i do undertood why they did it:
- missing features vs. chinese competitors products
- Hantek ruled multilanguage product policy
but honestly don't know why they decided to use not stable firmware version for end user products.

Anyway, maybe they learned from Microsoft ("field evaluation" engineering) and as you said
"designed by a programmer used to binary and software, not by a scope engineer" - so if you don't knwo what
ppl really need develop "something you think it might work" , let end user test it and decide later based on feedback.

If you look on competitors - e.g. UNI-T - they realized very fast "we need bigger display", but instead of display with
biger resolution they chosed bigger display with small resolution, removing all informations from website ... as ppl realized
they got cheatted uni-t promissed to fix the firmware. One year later and after 4 firmware updates no changes on the
display - and probably they will never fix it - the platform is not good enough for better resultion.
Rigol/Atten - they have to start from scratch too - the DSP/display controller platform is not good enough to
handle bigger resolutions, Rigol decided (at least until now) to not cheat customers and is still producing DSOs with 320x240
and "small" display, ATTEN/Siglent did same as UNI-T - big display with small resolution (yhear, the typical buyer will not even recognize it).
The worse part of the story is that many ebay/china shops are selling these Atten/Siglent/UNI-T DSOs under
"big resolution 800x480 DSO" - which isn't truth. As we can see "fix the platform" is not easy step.

Back to "topic" - of course is Tekway/Hantek not a real DSO manufacturer, they doing great job and let's hope they will
fix firmware issues. I know them and i know they doing everything necessary to fix it - however i can't vouch for.

I don't know why all chinese manufacturers hiding details of their products, there is nothing to shame about.
If a product does not have something implemented, well who cares, the truth is better than "cheatting".
Probably they learned from the wester-world competitors - if you need to know something "bad" about
Tektronix - don't ask them, ask Agilent - and vice versa of course. I remember these nice LeCroy
presentations - "refresh rate didn't matter, do single shot and you can find the spike with our software".
Sure, i would probably said the same if my product is slow refreshing. Of course the actuall HanTekway 2500 wrfm/s
are not much, but better than 800. It was not all that long ago that Tektronix prodeuced DPOs with similar refresh rate,
even current low range models are not much better at all. Or look on Hameg - no single word about refresh rate,
but copmetitors know it of course, and yeah it is on Tekway/Hantek level. If you look on my first post in this thread you
will see i was looking for "replacement" for my broken TDS754D. To be very i bough the older Tekway model and was
disapointed (currently using it as DIY Spectrum Analyzer), then bought Tektronix DST2012 - again very
disapointed (luckily i bough it very cheap, with broken front and display). Then i started again to look around chinese product,
tested some and finaly decided to use Tekway. It can't repalce my old TDS754D, but is a good enough.
Today i would probably buy 70Mhz Agilent DSOX2000 (and hack it to higher bw) or Tekway - even with these firmware bugs -
because of the potential within this hardware/software platform.

It is all about the price vs. features. On the other side there is no warranty that high end scope will have perfect firmware,
actually you can buy one of the R&S scopes and you will see how perfectly they freezing every two days, there
are other DSOs with known issues too, nobody is perfect.

So what, good value for money ? Sure, and it does have potential, but jesus, some of the firmware issues need to fixed asap.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 16, 2011, 09:27:34 pm

Not sure what you are trying to say here?  The waveform update rate isn't very important to digital scopes, despite the fact that some mainstream DSO makers try to get you to think it is the only number that matters - it is in their interest to promote their banner spec and get you to ignore so many important things that affect the usefulness of a DSO. .....

I think they should be called something else, because they do not work like an analogue scope, but I also realise that this is hoping for too much, the name DSO - we are stuck with it now. ......

As another thought about update rate... what is the response time of the LCD display, and how fast are its pixels updated?  I don't have a model number or spec on the display LCD used int he Hantek/Tekway DSOs.  If it is typically around 5mS pixel response time, the fastest update rate that can be seen is limited by the LCD response rate.  1/5mS =2000 changes black to white per second = 1000 hertz of a waveform.  So, the fastest that any pixel can turn on and off, is 1000 times per second.  It makes the very high waveform update rates that Tek and HP have been quoting pretty pointless I think.


Colin,

i miss to answer the part above ... so here we go.

the biggest advantage of analog osciloscope was that you could see the real waveform (generally spoken, because even with analog scope you
can measure bullshit) or beautifull random spikes on the phosphor ... the biggest disadvanted was the missing memory. Sure there are some combination
between both techs possible, but let stay on basics techs.

The biggest advantage of DSO is the memory, and vice versa to analog biggest disadvantage are the blind times between sample cycles
caused primarly due serial data processing (-> acq. data -> calculate waveform -> move data to µC -> display data ->).
Even if this process look like a "flow", it is combination of steps, with dead time between, which of course accumulate
to a very high total blind time.

The common misunderstanding is the waveform refresh rate, it does not have anything to do with actual display refresh,
from that point of view everything about 25-200frames/sec should be sufficient. It does have only something to do with the
time the DSO need to acquire, calculate and display the data, which is very slow on typical DSO due the serial process flow.
Same of course for DPOs , however they have significant differences to typical DSOs.

To have a real time digital scope (like a analog scope) we need to process 1000000 waveforms per second.
(Btw, the TDS754D is doing 80000wfrm/s, but only when single channel selected and 50point/frame,
with 5000point/frame and two channels enabled it less that 4000wfrm/s - not that far from HanTekway's 2500wfrm/s
in dual chan and 4000point/frame)

If you compare it to lower range Tektronix DPO with 5000 wfrm/s that's only 0.5% of what really happens and 99.5% blind time
(or 99.75 blind time for Tekway/Hantek ... or 99.92% for Rigol ... or 95% for Agilent DSOX 2k).
So what, is this data important ? Sure, if you have to capture glitches it is important - statement like "with Tekway you have 300%
more chance to capture glitch than with Rigol ..."  funny heh, but it is actually truth.
If you have to watch endless sinus, a 20$ cheap toy-dso like Nano is good enough.

Tekway/Hantek DSOs are more like Tektronix DPOs, the data will be collected and rasterized - the resulting data accumulated and displayed
where spikes/gltiches with less occurrence will get displayed darker and more occurrence brighter to simulate phosphor.
Sure Tek DPOs are doing this job better having 256 stages (Tekway only 16), but it is the same idea.
(Note the difference - typical DSO is not rasterizing and accumulating data, so to see a glitch yuo have to wait
actually until the glitch happens within the sampling window - and then of course it will get display in same color/brightness as normal signal, so it might
, depends on glitch, misslead you)

As this process is (more or less -depends on the implementation) parallel on a DPO, the amount of captured data is higher than on typical DSO,
reducing blind times. The display refresh rate is a different story, lower range Tek DPO is doing display update with 30Hz
(where still the data will be collected, rasterized and moved to the display memory to get accumulated - and that with 5000 wfrm/sec).

Tekway is having 30/40/50Hz and auto (which is autoresponding refresh rate based on event occurance - it is actually good for XY, i pref. to use 50Hz)
display refresh rate (where still like on Tek the data will be collected, rasterized and moved to display controller to get accumulated with 2500 wfrm/sec).


As you own LeCory - for yrs LeCroy was not able to deliver scopes with high wfrm/s rate, they saw it only as Tektronix marketing gag (well, a drunken driver will always tell you others are responsible, he will be alway the best driver in the world) and tried to sell scopes via "big memory" marketing trick.
Sure, sufficient memory is important, but actually you can't sample with 1GSs for minutes (which you will need to see few khz glitch on Rigol/lower cost LeCroy). Luckily this changed, LeCroy is having today scopes with high wfrm/s rate (and sufficient memory) - but we talk now about
chinese products which are comparable to 5-10yrs old middle range scopes (Tek/LeCroy/HP) or even todays lower range Tek/LeCroy/Agilent scopes.

If you have enough money, you can get a good one digital scope which will be better than analog one, but honestly i prefer to drive a nice car
and work on lower/middle range equipment.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: dfnr2 on May 17, 2011, 10:44:23 am
Of course it is good to maximize the refresh rate, but the examples in the HP ads are very artificial.  First of all, those high rates only apply at the shortest sweep rates with the shallowest memory.  Second, you still have to sit there and watch the screen for really rare glitches (1/hr), and unfortunately, you don't really get to choose your glitch rate.  True, if you have 1M waveforms/sec, you may see a glitch that happens 1/hour, and with 1K waveforms/sec, you may never see it, but neither will see a glitch that happens 1/day (without a stakeout), and nobody will look for glitches using that technique.  You will look for events around the glitch and trigger on those, then hunt for the glitch, or you'll try to trigger on the glitch.  Then you check every so often, go home, sleep, check in the morning.  Once you've confirmed your glitch, regardless of update rate, you may want to troubleshoot the cause, which may require triggering about the glitch, and capturing signals.  When you're capturing and analyzing signals, waveform update rate is irrelevant. 

In general, given a choice between a scope with very deep memory, sophisticated memory architecture (segments), and sophisticated triggering versus high waveform rate, I believe the first option would be by far the more useful and versatile scope for most engineering applications.  If you can trigger on the glitch, you prove it's existence, and can explore other waveforms.  Or, you can trigger on the symptom, and find the glitch in memory.

Additionally, the majority of debugging does not involve hunting for gitches; you're more often looking at highly reproducible, deterministic behavior.  In this case as well as the intermittent events, great triggering and deep memory are a boon.  That's why those old Lecroy scopes are such a great deal.  They've got fantastic triggering capability and (even by today's standards) incredibly deep memory with segmentation ability, and are typically much cheaper than similar bandwidth/sample rate HP and Tek scopes with 1/100 the memory, no segments, and less powerful math and triggering.  (According to TeraPeak, last 90 days Ebay final sale prices of 2 working LeCroy 9354 scopes was $300 and $500; and a tek TDS754A was $2600).

Dave
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 17, 2011, 11:50:36 am
Additionally, the majority of debugging does not involve hunting for gitches; you're more often looking at highly reproducible, deterministic behavior.  In this case as well as the intermittent events, great triggering and deep memory are a boon.  That's why those old Lecroy scopes are such a great deal.  They've got fantastic triggering capability and (even by today's standards) incredibly deep memory with segmentation ability, and are typically much cheaper than similar bandwidth/sample rate HP and Tek scopes with 1/100 the memory, no segments, and less powerful math and triggering.  (According to TeraPeak, last 90 days Ebay final sale prices of 2 working LeCroy 9354 scopes was $300 and $500; and a tek TDS754A was $2600).

most EE even don't know how to proper measure things they not work with daily. LeCroy 9345 is for sure good value for money, as my Tek died i didn't saw any reason to buy expensive replcament parts for such old device (you never know what next). I was thinking about other brand named used scopes, but again - you never know what you buy, so finally decided to give a chance non-brand named manufacturer.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: dfnr2 on May 17, 2011, 03:50:05 pm
good one, go home and sleep a bit :)
Done  8)

All that being said, having used scopes for digital, analog, and RF design, and for MRI pulse sequence development, I think one can do most of the stuff you need with triggering no fancier than the current crop of chinese scopes, and deep memory.  That's why I'm fond of this little Hantek--It's tiny, silent, with a stunningly beautiful screen, nice control panel, and has enough features to accomplish a lot of design, service, or testing work, even for a pro.  The screen really makes a difference.  I'm rooting for Hantek to open up the code; but barring that, to start fixing the bugs.  I believe they will--they seem very responsive to their customers.  I would imagine that a good software base and a good HDL base could form the basis for a profitable series of scopes for years to come.

Dave
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 17, 2011, 06:18:09 pm
well someone have to convince the shareholders, actually they blocking any open source / SDK ideas,
which is really "stupid" (stupid is maybe hard word, but there is a chance to have additional benefit and they just refusing it)

There is, except DSO nano, no open source DSO available on the market - and what a supprise, many ppl bought DSO NANO
even knowing that the performance is really poor, but the idea of "to be involved" in something (or well, or have a chance some day)
is fooling ppl and increasing the sales numbers. Another one example - Wittig DSOs - even after the company stop to exists
ppl still developing firmware, for free. Sure they spend a bit longer than necessary to have real revenue, but only because there was almost
no support from manufacturer.

Sure good EE cost money, but actually there are enough good ppl who wish
to get involded - for free - in the Hantek DSO improvement.

Today, even a "open" source prostitute is getting more "customers", even if she already wide open.

Hantek is currently such conservative, they even don't want to supply schematics of the DSOs to official service providers.

So dear shareholders, think about it!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Mechatrommer on May 17, 2011, 06:22:53 pm
Today, even a "open" source prostitute is getting more "customers", even if she already wide open.
LOL!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: bilko on May 17, 2011, 07:09:06 pm
Now the concept of a relatively high spec scope based on Linux has been proven by Hantekway and the demand for an open source version has been established. I wonder how long it will be before another manufacturer will 'jump in' and sweep the rug from under their feet whilst the shareholders are still thinking about it. Wake up Hantekway, this is the 21st century, business is changing, you still have a chance to take advantage of the situation.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: carloscuev on May 18, 2011, 03:22:15 pm
Just talked to Pioneer Huang, the Aliexpress Hantek and Tekway seller and he told me that he will start shipping the english panel sticker he promised to his buyers in about 2 days, he sent me a pic:

(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/8895/snv30823.jpg)
(resized within html tags only, save it to view it in high res)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 19, 2011, 03:00:17 pm
@new hardware revision owners

can someone test the /tst hack on new hardware revision ?

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 21, 2011, 10:39:49 pm
@new hardware revision owners

can someone test the /tst hack on new hardware revision ?

nobody ? Drieg ?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: drieg on May 23, 2011, 05:55:31 pm
Unfortunately I don't have any 400 MHz source at hand at the moment, so I did test the tst file hack with my fast-pulse generator only.

First picture is original DST1062B, PCB v1.00.5, second picture shows the same unit with the /tst file ([filter] 45) after reboot. The [filter] parameter obviously changes the VGA settings, it has no effect on varicap bias in low pass BW filter.

Although the input circuits are almost indentical for Rigol DS1052E and Tekway DST1062B, it seems the BW control is done in a different way. Tekway don't use primary the low-pass filter with different varicap bias, they're changing gain of input VGA. As tinhead mentioned earlier (e.g. here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=553.msg44517#msg44517)):

"Everything happens within FPGA design, where FPGA is talking to CPLD and CPLD is changing the gain of AD8370 (combination of digital low pass filter and gain control)."

This is probably the reason, why the fast pulse amplitude fluctuates on DST1062B while on Rigol DS1052E you can see nice stable pulse. Frankly speaking, I don't understand why Tekway/Hantek chose this way and I don't really understand how this can work when you need to capture fast single-shot signals. What is the single-shot bandwidth then? Based on what data is the gain calculated??
It might work for sinus, but how can this work for square with fast rissing/falling eges?

I've also found out, that the varicap bias in low-pass filter is still the same for DST1062B and DS1202B unit. They must do all BW control in VGA. The low-pass filter is used only for 20MHz BW limit on/off...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 23, 2011, 08:13:42 pm
btw, there is new firmware on Hantek website v2.06.3 (110420.0). However for some reason the dev team forgot to
increase version number in the executable itself, so after update you will still see v2.06.3 (110225.0).

However the dso.exe is from April 2011, so if you do an fw update don't wonder about not updated version number.

For Tekway user - there is no fw available to download, however Tekway is sending via email/support fw with exact same "error".


The firmware itself have only some code changes, no new functions.
From what i can see changes are in these parts of code:
- menu (measure, dual windows wave player, digital filter, recorder),
- language selection,
- data export (math),
- pass/fail,
- default setup,
- FFT draw,
- Wave draw,
- pc communication

Hantek said that this firmware should have language issues fixed (whatever this means, haven't checked because
i use anyway english only).

I think next time i will send an invoice to Hantek/Tekway, something like changelog seems to be too much for them
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: enclis on May 23, 2011, 09:14:30 pm
is there in v2.06.3 (110420.0) a bugfix with 1M samples saving? Can I upgrade my DST1062 with this Hantek fw?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 23, 2011, 09:48:01 pm
is there in v2.06.3 (110420.0) a bugfix with 1M samples saving? Can I upgrade my DST1062 with this Hantek fw?

no, the 1M csv bug is still not fixed. You can't directly use Hantek firmware on Tekway DSO, and vice versa.

What you always can od is to decrypt/unpack firmware content, and manually copy updated files
(this time dso.exe and the content of OurLanguages folder).

You can of course create own firmware upgarde file, but to be very honest to write an email to Tekway
support (our your fav. Tekway dealer) takes 1 minute and tomorrow you will get the firmware.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tom66 on May 23, 2011, 10:35:13 pm
Hi, Tinhead, a while back you said you had a schematic for the inputS... Well I'd be interested in seeing how these modern scopes are designed as I am working on a similar project on the back-burner. Thanks!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: colinbeeforth on May 25, 2011, 12:42:11 pm
Hi tinhead,

There seems to only be one version of firmware.  Is this the same for all 3 models?  Does it change the bandwidth or read some config file and leave bandwidth correct for each model?

Colin
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 25, 2011, 11:05:41 pm
This is probably the reason, why the fast pulse amplitude fluctuates on DST1062B while on Rigol DS1052E you can see nice stable pulse. Frankly speaking, I don't understand why Tekway/Hantek chose this way and I don't really understand how this can work when you need to capture fast single-shot signals. What is the single-shot bandwidth then? Based on what data is the gain calculated??
It might work for sinus, but how can this work for square with fast rissing/falling eges?

I've also found out, that the varicap bias in low-pass filter is still the same for DST1062B and DS1202B unit. They must do all BW control in VGA. The low-pass filter is used only for 20MHz BW limit on/off...

The digital filter does not have any influence on waveform as long the HF component necessary to rebuild the waveform is not filtered out.
It is by default set to bw limit, so the resulting waveform on the display looks similar as with analog filter.
The VAG is used in addition to control the flatness over the whole bw (it is hard to analyze the exact functionality)

Actually Rigol/Instek are doing exact the same, the analog low-pass filter is only an addition to what the firmware is doing
(plus of course the 20MHz filter functionality)

In principle you can add analog filter to Tekway/Hantek too, the waveform looks cleaner up to 20ns/div but as soon you switch to 8/4/2ns ADCs are running with 125Mhz which is producing some "nice artifacts" (amplitude changes). This isn't really bad design, as long the DSO is calibrated properly.
Especialy the factory calibration is very important, the self-calibration data is based anway on it (+ measured data created by DAC)

I did played a bit with the factory calibration, which is without internal information from dev team a real pain. I was able to increase signal quality (and
decrease drasticly). Haven't published anything about because it is not for everybody (yet? will see).

What the diff between Rigol and HanTekway is - well, Rigol is using 5 double ADCs running with 100Mhz, which is easier to synchronize (and reduce potential conversion errors). However, if you check Instek, they using 4 double ADCs like HanTekway - with no issues at all.

So you might ask what really different or wat is exactly the reason for the "nervous" signal ?

That's actually the the FPGA firmware itself. Where Rigol and Instek are doing 800wfrm/s (more or less serial), HanTekway is doing 2500 (more or less parallel).
Set your display refresh to auto or 30Hz, set avr to 4 and the signal looks close to what on Rigol/Instek. Sure pulse signal is still jumping around (well it is doing anyway, that's not a real stable pulse) but the reason is mostly in jitter/calibration. If you do single shot for 200MHz signal on a 200Mhz enabled DSO you will see that every second peak is having same amplitude (where by 300Mhz two ok, third bad and for 400 Mhz two ok, next two bad).
This is a perfect indication for not perfect synchronized ADCs (well, it will be never really perfect due the i/o pin jitter from the FPGA)

Anyway, HanTekway did updated the FPGA design for the new hw models for reason (let's hope they will still support and improve design for old hw!).

Btw, if you look in detail the varicap (and the two series caps) together with the opamps in/out impendace, the resistors network and
wires inductance is in principle a (R)ZLC butterworth low pass filter. You can actually calculate back from the 20MHz and the total capacity
of Varicap/C combination the (R)ZL values and calculate then again the cutoff for lowest varicap capacity. As i remember it was something about 280Mhz?


To be very honest i doubt that HanTekway are having good QC and spending hours for calibration, which we of course love because every
working hr costs money and we don't want to pay  too much ... that's the point. I wish HanTekway could tell me/us how they doing the factory
calibration in detail
(i can guess and track many things, but not everything without spending tons of hrs on that). Sure not everybody will be
able to re-calibrate @home, but for those who have the knowledge and equipment it could be an option.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 25, 2011, 11:12:32 pm
Hi tinhead,

There seems to only be one version of firmware.  Is this the same for all 3 models?  Does it change the bandwidth or read some config file and leave bandwidth correct for each model?

Colin
no, it's not. On chinese webpage for 60Mhz model is available, on english webpage for 100Mhz model ... crazy what? , but there is
explanation why (the firmware on the webpage is only interim version).

HanTekway said that they will publish single firmware (for all models), with some bux fixes in the next few days
(actually they said until end of this week, but we know already that marketing and engineering calendars have different amount of days per week)
so please be patient.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: colinbeeforth on May 26, 2011, 06:44:01 am

Hi tinhead,

Quote
no, it's not. On chinese webpage for 60Mhz model is available, on english webpage for 100Mhz model ... crazy what?

Defintiely a bit crazy.  I found the 100MHz version [dst1kb_2.06.3_15102b_fact(110225.0).up] on the Chinese page.  I tried to upgrade my DSO5102B DSO and it appeared to do everything correctly, saying successful upgrade, power off and then on to run it.  When I turn it on again, the DSO still shows version 110225, and upgrade count is still 0!!  The upgrade simply doesn't work at all.

Quote
What you always can do is to decrypt/unpack firmware content

Sounds like a good idea.  What sort of encryption is used to package the operating software?  <colin at lasielle dot net> if you want to email direct.

Frankly, I am beginning to suspect Hantek/Tekway software development is not run by engineers, maybe talented amateurs - talent, but no discipline.  Lack of changelog, early release of only some versions, upgrades that don't work.  This is not building my confidence in them at all.  ???
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 26, 2011, 10:13:47 am
Sounds like a good idea.  What sort of encryption is used to package the operating software?  <colin at lasielle dot net> if you want to email direct.

To decrypt firmware update:
- download the .up file from Hantek/Tekway website
- download and install GPG / GnuPG
- run gpg -d dstxxxxxxx.up > dstxxxxxx.gz (when asked for password type 0571tekway)
- gunzip the dstxxxxxx.gz
- untar the resulting file (it is dstxxxxxx. )
- untar again the resulting DST1000_4000.tar

Frankly, I am beginning to suspect Hantek/Tekway software development is not run by engineers, maybe talented amateurs - talent, but no discipline.  Lack of changelog, early release of only some versions, upgrades that don't work.  This is not building my confidence in them at all.  ???

knowing the public and not public issues in last 3 months - full ack.

Before Hantek shareholder bought Tekway, so before the original developer "rgj" stopped to work on the hardware/firmware
the situation was totally different - you can still see some echos in the firmware, SVN, changelog/history, comments
in the apps and scripts - things you always expect from a profesional development process.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on May 26, 2011, 04:24:10 pm

Hi tinhead,

Quote
no, it's not. On chinese webpage for 60Mhz model is available, on english webpage for 100Mhz model ... crazy what?

Defintiely a bit crazy.  I found the 100MHz version [dst1kb_2.06.3_15102b_fact(110225.0).up] on the Chinese page.  I tried to upgrade my DSO5102B DSO and it appeared to do everything correctly, saying successful upgrade, power off and then on to run it.  When I turn it on again, the DSO still shows version 110225, and upgrade count is still 0!!  The upgrade simply doesn't work at all.

Quote
What you always can do is to decrypt/unpack firmware content

Sounds like a good idea.  What sort of encryption is used to package the operating software?  <colin at lasielle dot net> if you want to email direct.

Frankly, I am beginning to suspect Hantek/Tekway software development is not run by engineers, maybe talented amateurs - talent, but no discipline.  Lack of changelog, early release of only some versions, upgrades that don't work.  This is not building my confidence in them at all.  ???


New latest FW package (.rar)   is here for all models (be sure you select right model:

http://www.hantek.com/download/dst1kb_2.06.3_15000B_fact(110420.0).rar (http://www.hantek.com/download/dst1kb_2.06.3_15000B_fact(110420.0).rar)

extract it and you find separate FW update for every single models.
There is NOT version 110225.0 on the Hantek official siteds (where from you find this old, it is not anymore officially shared?)

(add: as we all know there is still 110225.0 after update to 110420.0 becouse they forget update version number change in file.. really I do not understand they thinking and lazy loose woking practice. No changelog what is "must" in all FW updates so this is like garbage coillecting in the dark)

Do not use any other sources for FW update but only official Hantek webpage. (exept if you know exactly what you are doing ;)  )
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 26, 2011, 05:26:16 pm
it was fw from the official webpage. To stop the confusion, Hantek updated shortly the file on the webserver.

Those who downloaded the older file found only update for one model, the file what is right now on server does have
updates files for all models.

The version number, well, look in hex editor and you will see, the dso.exe DOES NOT have the number updated,
it is still 2.06.3(110225.0) and not (110420.0)


Even the update script is talking about old number:

[DST type]dst1000b
[soft version]2.06.3(110225.0)

So yes, we assume it is 110420.0 just because it was compiled in April, but after update the DSO will still show you 110225.0

And btw, Tekway is sending exact the same firmware with exact the same version number "bug"
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on May 26, 2011, 06:46:41 pm
it was fw from the official webpage. To stop the confusion, Hantek updated shortly the file on the webserver.

Those who downloaded the older file found only update for one model, the file what is right now on server does have
updates files for all models.

The version number, well, look in hex editor and you will see, the dso.exe DOES NOT have the number updated,
it is still 2.06.3(110225.0) and not (110420.0)


Even the update script is talking about old number:

[DST type]dst1000b
[soft version]2.06.3(110225.0)

So yes, we assume it is 110420.0 just because it was compiled in April, but after update the DSO will still show you 110225.0

And btw, Tekway is sending exact the same firmware with exact the same version number "bug"

O-ou. What is going on...  this sloppiness negligence is going more and more worse.

What happend after springfestival in Hantek. Maybe some better worker did not arrive back to working?

Someone need stop this game and clean table and then continue from clean board with good tight order and rules. Other way they start loose...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: amigo on May 27, 2011, 08:46:09 pm
Phew, I have finally read all 41 pages of this thread...

Let me join everyone in thanking tinhead for his relentless effort to bring us this wonderful improvement and a wealth of information along.

I bought my Hantek DSO5102B last Christmas and did not even fully unpack it until couple of days ago. The firmware on the unit is 2.06.2 (101028.0) and I was able to use the original USB hack to change it to DSO5202B without any problems.

I wonder now, is it worth upgrading to 2.06.3 (110420.0) using the original file vias the USB? Will that cause any problems with the hack, or should I manually copy the files?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 27, 2011, 10:59:49 pm
Phew, I have finally read all 41 pages of this thread...

yeah, i created some shortcuts in my first posting to save some reading time )

I bought my Hantek DSO5102B last Christmas and did not even fully unpack it until couple of days ago.

how come ?

I wonder now, is it worth upgrading to 2.06.3 (110420.0) using the original file vias the USB? Will that cause any problems with the hack,
or should I manually copy the files?

hacked device is working exact as original device, so as you hacked you can use manufacturer firmware updates
(for the target model, which i assume is now 200MHz model).
Manuall copy work of course too, but it's not that handy is you don't have LAN addon board or at least uart port outside DSO.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: amigo on May 28, 2011, 12:26:55 am
yeah, i created some shortcuts in my first posting to save some reading time )
I saw those, but you made many more posts in-between that I found having valuable information. I actually pasted it all into a text file so I can refer to it later and contemplate what's said. :)

Quote
how come ?
I was building a new workbench and my equipment was all stacked aside waiting for the build to finish. It just took sooooo long but here's the product of that labour:
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7144/dsc01907p.th.jpg) (http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7144/dsc01907p.jpg)

Quote
hacked device is working exact as original device, so as you hacked you can use manufacturer firmware updates
(for the target model, which i assume is now 200MHz model).
Manuall copy work of course too, but it's not that handy is you don't have LAN addon board or at least uart port outside DSO.
Appears it worked via USB, although it says 2.06.3 (110225.0) even though I used the 110420.0 file from their website, weird.

I looked at the latest firmware update and it seems the only difference is in the scripts in the main tekwayup_client/ folder. Binaries are the same according to my diff here for all three versions (5062B, 5102B, 5202B). I wonder why they are separating them now by model if all the binaries are the same.

You mentioned that another member here did some "looking" into the circuits and the code, so I suppose I should not invest time into it if that's going to be presented soon?

What we really need is Hex Rays ARM as that would give us pseudo code, rather than trying to guess through disassembly. Sadly, I do not have it and do not know anyone with it. Kinda pricey at that, too. :\

Someone else asked earlier in the thread about the 2.6.13 QQ2440 kernel source and that was a pain to find (just one source in China) but here it is for everyone else: http://mir.cr/DJHYUIHK (http://mir.cr/DJHYUIHK)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 28, 2011, 01:37:34 am
I was building a new workbench and my equipment was all stacked aside waiting for the build to finish. It just took sooooo long but here's the product of that labour:
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7144/dsc01907p.th.jpg) (http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7144/dsc01907p.jpg)


heh, that's perfect excuse. Btw, on the pic, 4 x Xantrex/Sorensen power supply ? I like them, good value for money, especialy if you use gpib/uart.

Appears it worked via USB, although it says 2.06.3 (110225.0) even though I used the 110420.0 file from their website, weird.

yep, see the last 5 postings :) Just a "lazy" developer, binary if definitely from April 2011, so only version number not updated.

I looked at the latest firmware update and it seems the only difference is in the scripts in the main tekwayup_client/ folder. Binaries are the same according to my diff here for all
three versions (5062B, 5102B, 5202B). I wonder why they are separating them now by model if all the binaries are the same.
actually as there is new and old hw revision each update is checking first for hw model and then calling the child update script.
As there is routing diff between hardware revisions, in case firmware update includes fpga design (dn.rbf) you have to copy/use the proper one.
You will not kill the fpga by wrong design, but your DSO will not work proper.

And yes, there is no diff in binaries, however due the "hack protection" the update script need to be per model. Reason is very simple, the fw on the DSO is checking the content
of update file and comparing model names, if they match the update will continue. However this protection is mostly a joke, and it seems that HanTekway got pissed off by themself
so they implemented a secret way to skip model check (by the "special" file). However this only works if the fw version on the DSO know it (so must be at least 2.06.3 (110225.0)).
Anyway, as i heard they will soon have only single fw for all models, probably with better protection, which actually didn't really matter.

You mentioned that another member here did some "looking" into the circuits and the code, so I suppose I should not invest time into it if that's going to be presented soon?
What we really need is Hex Rays ARM as that would give us pseudo code, rather than trying to guess through disassembly. Sadly, I do not have it and do not know anyone with it. Kinda pricey at that, too. :\


i draw schematic (i still have to update some sheets from paper to sch) of the old hw revision (which is what you have), the member i mentioned
focused on firmware itself. He disassembled the firmware and analyzed deeper. However as asm analysis cost time he stopped and wrote
own arm decompiler (i think plugin for ida). For sure it might not work that good as Hex Rays, but defnitelly better than nothing (or pure asm).
To buy Hex Rays is not an option (not for single person).

He haven't published yet anything due private work load (so you can still spend some time analyzing too), no idea when he will be "ready",
but i'm bothering him all the time :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: amigo on May 28, 2011, 02:09:37 am
heh, that's perfect excuse. Btw, on the pic, 4 x Xantrex/Sorensen power supply ? I like them, good value for money, especialy if you use gpib/uart.
Yup Sorensen - I got them for $200 on eBay, I think the best deal I ever got judging that you can hook these up parallel, serial, stand-alone. :)

Quote
...
so they implemented a secret way to skip model check (by the "special" file). However this only works if the fw version on the DSO know it (so must be at least 2.06.3 (110225.0)).
Anyway, as i heard they will soon have only single fw for all models, probably with better protection, which actually didn't really matter.
I agree with you all the way when you said they should focus on fixing bugs and not spending resources on protection as that's just going to make people even more interested to go around it. Just look at what's happening with the commercial software and "fancy" ways of protection that all failed miserably. But I guess Hantekway is trying to keep their shareholders happy, too bad the shareholders don't have much insight into it or they would probably long abandoned protections as they are futile.

Quote
i draw schematic (i still have to update some sheets from paper to sch) of the old hw revision (which is what you have), the member i mentioned
focused on firmware itself. He disassembled the firmware and analyzed deeper. However as asm analysis cost time he stopped and wrote
own arm decompiler (i think plugin for ida). For sure it might not work that good as Hex Rays, but defnitelly better than nothing (or pure asm).
To buy Hex Rays is not an option (not for single person).

He haven't published yet anything due private work load (so you can still spend some time analyzing too), no idea when he will be "ready",
but i'm bothering him all the time :)
He wrote a plugin to convert to pseudo code, that's impressive?!

I thought you wouldn't need a plugin to just disassemble with IDA because ARM is already supported, but can't generate pseudo code without Hex Rays ARM...

When can we see those schematics? :)

Say, I'm struggling here with the dumped image of the firmware. I thought we could mount the root.bin as a yaffs(2) but I'm getting nowhere with it? I managed to compile yaffs2 and got mtd-utils and yaffs2utils as well, but it keeps telling me it's not the right image or not a multiple of 2048+64?

I suppose you aren't using vanilla Linux for your debugging but instead the Mini2440 board?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 28, 2011, 02:33:39 am
Yup Sorensen - I got them for $200 on eBay, I think the best deal I ever got judging that you can hook these up parallel, serial, stand-alone. :)

puhh, that's indeed good deal. I bough two (single units) for ~200USD total, however with gpib card which was still very cheap.

He wrote a plugin to convert to pseudo code, that's impressive?!

I thought you wouldn't need a plugin to just disassemble with IDA because ARM is already supported, but can't generate pseudo code without Hex Rays ARM...

to disassmeble IDA is enough, but to decompile back to C you need HexRays plugin (or DIY plugin/decompiler as he did, which is indeed impressive)


When can we see those schematics? :)

soon ...

Say, I'm struggling here with the dumped image of the firmware. I thought we could mount the root.bin as a yaffs(2) but I'm getting nowhere with it? I managed to compile yaffs2 and got mtd-utils and yaffs2utils as well, but it keeps telling me it's not the right image or not a multiple of 2048+64?

I suppose you aren't using vanilla Linux for your debugging but instead the Mini2440 board?

i'm not sure if yaffs2utils is working properly, as i remember there was problem with OOB and small NAND.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: amigo on May 28, 2011, 02:51:05 am
I'm just lazy to hook the FT232R up to the UART port and so I thought to dig through the file system by mounting the image. Maybe I should make a permanent port on the scope and just connect that way but then I have to keep the scope on as well, and I would be messing with a "live" system, too.

I'll figure this yaffs thing out, computers are not smarter than people - we made those suckers after all! :)

Thanks!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: jellytot on May 28, 2011, 06:35:02 am
Well I`m not sure what I've done here, but I performed the upgrade on a Hantek DSO5102B
the latest model, but after I upgraded with the latest 5202 firmware I thought to change the logo back
to 5102, so I did and it booted with the 5102 logo but it also changed it to 5102 under system parameters
model type. >:(  So now I was worried and decided to change the logo back to 5202 again,but the boot screen has still got the 5102 logo but the system parameter display is now DSO5202B.
So I thought that maybe to rerun the firmware update again to bring the boot logo back.. :) but the update
failed at stage 8 with the error message "software upgrade failed error 0xf7  Illegal upgrade files detected"
So now I'm worried that I wont be able to upgrade with future updates?? So how serious is it ? will a new upgrade work? Thanks.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 28, 2011, 10:51:32 am
So now I'm worried that I wont be able to upgrade with future updates?? So how serious is it ? will a new upgrade work? Thanks.
you did something wrong, but don't worry, you can't brick HanTekway DSO that easy.

Did you hacked over UART or USB? The best would be to connect via UART and to control
all files (/logotype, /logotype.dis, /tmpdst, /dstxxxxb)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: jellytot on May 28, 2011, 12:16:10 pm
Hi Tinhead. Yes I had followed exactly the instructions at the beginning using the uart method and everything worked great. It was only when after the upgrade that I edited the last setting to change the boot logo
back to DSO5102B that I ran into problems where I could not change it back. I tried to edit the files but they are already edited to use DSO5202B. It was Then I thought to run the same new firmware release, thinking that It would bring the logo back and thats were I got the error message. It looks like its running as a DSO5202B though as the band width goes to 2ns  :)  But I`m just worried that it wont take a future update, or is it that the firmware wont overwrite itself. Is it possible to fix ? I didnt think changing a logo would cause the problem >:(

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 28, 2011, 01:11:10 pm
if all files are ref. to 200Mhz:

logotype = dst1202b
logotype.dis = hantek_dso5202b
tmpdst = /dst1202b
/dst1202b

then you don't have to worry. After the hack you to use of course dso5202b firmware update files, it should not
give you an error if all these files in above are correct.

Check all these files, edit sys.inf like

[DST type]
[soft version]
[fpga version]
[start time]-1
[update time]-1

and reboot again.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: jellytot on May 28, 2011, 01:47:03 pm
Hi Tinhead. I Still have the problem! as far as I can tell the files are correctly edited but I still get the error ?
is it possible to flash again with the same firmware ?

model DSO5202B
soft version 2.06.3 (110225.0)
hard version 10050x555583e9
s/n T1G/005 xxxxxx 

here is a log of the process. Sorry its so long I edited it places to shorten..
it stops at ierror :247  ??

*** in doing do_update_secret_packet ***
<>get key=134.
(012)mem valid cnt=547..time 10s wave frames = 18...
iUpdateErrCode : 0
have * in update packet
Search_UdiskUpdateXXXFiles
dst1kb_2.06.3_15202b_fact(110420.0).up
(013)mem valid cnt=547..time 10s wave frames = 0...
(014)mem valid cnt=547..time 10s wave frames = 0...
tmp_name : /usr/up/dst1000_4000.up.tmp
gpg: CAST5 encrypted data
pw:0571tekway
gpg: encrypted with 1 passphrase
(015)mem valid cnt=547..time 10s wave frames = 0...
gpg: WARNING: message was not integrity protected
gpg: CAST5 encrypted data
pw:0571tekway
gpg: encrypted with 1 passphrase
(016)mem valid cnt=547..time 10s wave frames = 0...
gpg: WARNING: message was not integrity protected
dst1kb_2.06.3_.up.tar
(017)mem valid cnt=547..time 10s wave frames = 0...
tekwayup_client
tekwayup_client/update.sh
tekwayup_client/update
tekwayup_client/readHWVersion
tekwayup_client/update~
tekwayup_client/boardzero
tekwayup_client/boardzero/dso-lcd.ko
tekwayup_client/boardzero/updatezero.sh
tekwayup_client/boardzero/updatezero.sh~
tekwayup_client/update.sh~
tekwayup_client/sys.inf
tekwayup_client/logotype.dis
tekwayup_client/sys.inf~
tekwayup_client/common
tekwayup_client/common/logo
tekwayup_client/common/logo/hantek_DSO5062B_up.ico
(018)mem valid cnt=547..time 10s wave frames = 0...
tekwayup_client/common/logo/hantek_DSO5062B_mid.ico

tekwayup_client/common/libiconv.so.2.3.0
tekwayup_client/common/help.db
tekwayup_client/common/dso.exe
(019)mem valid cnt=547..time 10s wave frames = 0...
tekwayup_client/common/OurLanguages
tekwayup_client/common/OurLanguages/Tridchn.lan

tekwayup_client/common/OurLanguages/English.lan
tekwayup_client/common/updatecom.sh
tekwayup_client/common/updatecom.sh~
tekwayup_client/board1005
tekwayup_client/board1005/dso-lcd.ko
tekwayup_client/board1005/dso-buzzer.ko
tekwayup_client/board1005/update1005.sh
tekwayup_client/board1005/update1005.sh~
upend
Tar_UpdatePacket ok !!
start update sys files
ucUpdateBrand:hantek
ucSysBrand:hantek
ucUpdateType:DSO5202B
ucSysType:DSO5202B
iError :247

Draw_SingleMenuItem() <disp/menu_disp.c,2569>: 9682896.
(020)mem valid cnt=547..time 10s wave frames = 0...

Please press Enter to activate this console.


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 28, 2011, 02:06:59 pm
there must be some special character in the logotype.dis, visualy the compare seems to be ok

ucUpdateBrand:hantek
ucSysBrand:hantek
ucUpdateType:DSO5202B
ucSysType:DSO5202B
iError :247

take the attached file, unzip to usb stick, insert stick and move to / of the DSO.
Then reboot and try update again (and yes, you can run update over and over again)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: jellytot on May 28, 2011, 02:56:02 pm
Well Tinhead. You certainly know this instrument  8)  All working fine now  ;D I'm very grateful for your help
with this, I was sure that there was new protection employed in the new firmware...But now I`ll leave well enough alone and just apply the updates when they are released. so what do you think had happened, some corruption when I done the editing or something else? So the boot logo is critical when it comes to applying
firmware updates..? Thankyou once again.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 28, 2011, 06:20:04 pm
you welcome.

Regards the logo, it might be safer to rename the logo files itself (look in /logo directory) instead of changing
the logotype.dis (which will be actually read by the lcd driver to assign proper logo).
The reason is very simple, this file will be also used for model versification during firmware update, so if you have there
some wrong characters (like CR) the compare will always fail and you will be not able to do any fw updates.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: amigo on May 28, 2011, 06:32:44 pm
tinhead,

slightly off topic, but do you ever sleep? :)

I envy your passion and ability to stay up non-stop if you never sleep! :D
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: dfnr2 on May 28, 2011, 06:42:20 pm

(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7144/dsc01907p.th.jpg) (http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7144/dsc01907p.jpg)


Just for the record, that's really a beautiful setup.

Dave
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: amigo on May 28, 2011, 06:56:36 pm
Just for the record, that's really a beautiful setup.

Dave
Thanks Dave, here's a bit wider view of that side of the room.

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7788/dsc01904l.th.jpg) (http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7788/dsc01904l.jpg)

The workbench was a real pain to build and took me months (it was build in that room). I had no plans just a sketch and some wild idea of what I'd like it to look like. It did go through couple of design changes in my head and ended up like this. The two shelfs on top are separate and detach as well as the legs of the bench and the shelf beneath, else none of this could enter or leave the room (too wide/big for the door frame). :D
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on May 28, 2011, 09:18:53 pm
tinhead,

slightly off topic, but do you ever sleep? :)

I envy your passion and ability to stay up non-stop if you never sleep! :D

i did the "worst" thing human being can do - turned hobby into my job.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: amigo on May 28, 2011, 09:56:49 pm
i did the "worst" thing human being can do - turned hobby into my job.

You are right about the worst thing, as I know from my personal experience that all the hobbies I turned into jobs became laborious and I ended up disliking them. Electronics is still a hobby so I put up with it! :D
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: jellytot on May 29, 2011, 01:25:46 am
That old adage "do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life" isn't exactly true, more like
99% persperation 1% inspiration  ;D still its the satisfaction of finding out what caused the problem and then seeing it work again that motivates, its either that or a form of ocd  ;D
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ECL on June 13, 2011, 09:03:11 am

I finally got a chance to wire in an RS-232 translator, and do the hack.
Everything when quite smooth, thanks to the up-to-date summary, on the first page
(thanks tinhead  :)).  My firmware image did not have logo files, for the DSO5202B.  I
downloaded them from the link on page 14, and copied them to the scope, using
a flash drive:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg32924#msg32924 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg32924#msg32924)

That was the only step missing from the summary.  It might be useful to add a
link to logo files, on the first page.

While scanning the (post-hack) console output, during boot, I noticed the following:

now run app .....
main///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
link_autocheck_event......Complete!
mkdir: Cannot create directory `/param': File exists
mkdir: Cannot create directory `/param/sav': File exists
Kernel version = 0904100...
init kernel event ......[ok].
bank dso
init PC_UART_EVENT......[ok].
found /dst* =
 /dst1202b

DSTtype= dst1202b
maxSps = 2
bandWidth = 20
bandWidth = 6
 ###  CheckFileIsExist.  failled.
link_autocheck_event......Complete!   

Note the two bandWidth listings.  I have a Hantek DSO5062B, with firmware = 2.06.2 (101108.0).
Before the hack, this was the output:

now run app .....
main///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
link_autocheck_event......Complete!
mkdir: Cannot create directory `/param': File exists
mkdir: Cannot create directory `/param/sav': File exists
Kernel version = 0904100...
init kernel event ......[ok].
bank dso
init PC_UART_EVENT......[ok].
found /dst* =
 /dst1062b

DSTtype= dst1062b
maxSps = 2
bandWidth = 06
bandWidth = 2
 ###  CheckFileIsExist.  failled.
link_autocheck_event......Complete! 

Anyone know what the second bandwidth listing is all about?

Lastly, any strong opinions on the latest firmware?  Better/worse vs. 2.06.2 (101108.0)?

Thanks,

ECL  -K 
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 13, 2011, 12:12:43 pm
simple, there is a array with possible bandwidth values,  

[0..6] '02  04  06  08  10  15  20'

so we have 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 150 and 200MHz.

If the model is set to DST1062B we have 60MHz bw, so the value 06 is selected
which is second value in the array and with DST1202 we have 200MHz, so value 20 which
is the last, also 6th value from the array.

This array will be used to specify the bw filter corner frequency.


Regards the fw version, well hard to say, i remember there are some ugly bugs in 2.6.2,
so it might make sense to update to latest (which have already some bug fixed, but still crashing in measurment-> help menu and
after few minutes when trigger selected to alt. )

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: carloscuev on June 13, 2011, 03:04:54 pm
Hello, could somebody share the latest firmware (for a 100 to 200 Mhz hacked DSO), I sent an Email to Tekway but they did not replied and would like to test the new firmware. Thanks !
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 14, 2011, 03:09:06 pm
Hello, could somebody share the latest firmware (for a 100 to 200 Mhz hacked DSO), I sent an Email to Tekway but they did not replied and would like to test the new firmware. Thanks !

same here, waitng since two weeks and no answer. I know they have some webserver issues, so maybe non of the emails will
get read, let me check with distir here, maybe they know more ...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 14, 2011, 07:00:21 pm
About Factory Calibration

as you maybe know the factory calibration data is used by each Hantek/Tekway DSO to calculate
the self-calibration results agains specific hardware tolerance.

Sure, without this data the DSO will be able to run self-calibration, but you can be sure
the measured results will be wrong and over 5-10Mhz the ADC/FPGA timing constraint will not
work anymore, so you will see only crap on the display (actually they will be not run synchronous)

This factory calibration data is of course unique, each DSO have own due hardware tolerance.

There are (by default) following files on the file system:

tdc_edge125M - this is calibration for Edge Trigger by 1GSs (so each ADC in 125MHz)
tdc_overtime125M - this is calibration for Overtime Trigger by 1GSs (so each ADC in 125MHz)
tdc_pulse125M - this is calibration for Pulse Trigger by 1GSs (so each ADC in 125MHz)
mult_adc.log - this is the timing constraint table created from files above (more or less)
tdc.log

the first 4 files will get generated at factory, the 5th file (tdc.log) during self-calibration based on measured data recalculated
with data from the first 4 files.

In principle, if you do some changes to hardware, like input circuit changes, or clock oscillator changes
or even in some case you resolder something the factory calibration data need to be re-created.
And yeah, imagine if you have no warranty anymore and the NAND flash died, you will need this data
to be re-created too.

Btw, someone asked already before if there is a chance to reduce the waveform interferences,
well actually yes. By default the HanTekway DSOs are using standard quarz oscillators,
from all the models/hardware revisions over the time i know they typically specified somewhere
between 150ps up to 250ps total jitter. The FPGA pin (clock output to ADCs) jitter, as already mentioned in Rigol thread
is constant - however the calculation is based on the input clock quality (which is coming from the quarz oscillator).
This means if the clock signal have 30ps total jitter we have max 650ps jitter on ADC clock,
with 250ps input clock jitter you can calculate how the ADC clock looks like.

I did replaced my quarz oscillator, by low jitter model - FXO-HC736R-100 from Fox Electronics (digikey 631-1176-1-ND),
this baby have only ~25ps total jitter which is already below Altera specs.
However, it is not enough to change this part, the factory calibration need to be executed / re-created.
Therefore i looked around and found that Tekway/Hantek implemented the factory calibration procedure
into the firmware, as a hidden menu.

Now, with the /tst file hack (set to 300MHz bw) the waveform (100MHz test signal) looks like before with 100MHz bw,
where of course most of the HF distortion was removed. So in principe it is much better now, especially
for HF signals. This is still far from perfect but to be very honest there is no way to do it better,
except you design clock domain from scratch, as small addon boards placed directly near ADCs,
which isn't that easy.


How to run/restore Factory Calibration
You will need 10MHz (can be something between 1 and 20MHz, i got best results with 10MHz)
SQUARE signal source. Of course a good one, with low jitter (at least as good as your quarz oscillator used in your DSO)

Don't try to do it with sinus source, it will work for overtime and evt. for edge, but not for pulse calibration.
The necessary rise time can be something between 1ns - 20ns, i got best results with 5ns rise time.

And that's the factory calibration steps :

connect via UART to DSO
kill the dso application by typing
killall dso.exe

If you wish only to play around/test how this work, copy these files somewhere (stick, separate directory)
tdc.log
tdc_edge125M
tdc_edge (if exists, this files is really optional so don't care if you don't have it)
tdc_overtime125M
tdc_overtime  (if exists, this files is really optional so don't care if you don't have it)
tdc_pulse125M
tdc_pulse (if exists, this files is really optional so don't care if you don't have it)
mult_adc.log

You can restore them and everything will be as before (evt. you need to run after restored these files
and RESTARTED your DSO the self calibration once)

create /tdc.new file, by typing
touch /tdc.new

run on the shell (over UART/Terminal) the dso application by typing
/dso.exe

connect 10MHz low jitter square generator to channel 1

Click once "default setup", click once "Autoset",

Go to channel 1 settings, select coupling AC, go to trigger menu
and select Coupling AC, click once Trigger level knob to set trigger to ZERO line.

Select horizontal res. to 4ns/DIV.

Evt. increase the 10MHz aplitude, best distortion results are with aplitude over 8 div,
best small signal result with amplitude over 2 div - you can test what works better for your DSO/needs.

Now we ready for manufacturer calibration. Note that the DSO need some of these steps or it
will not let you re-create the manufacturer calibration files. The AC trigger and AC input
are optional, but as the calibration is checking zerocrossing it make sense to set like this.
You can of course do DC, but then your generator need to create +- waveform.

Now go to trigger menu, select type Edge, now click multiple time (fast) the "trigger Menu" button.
You should get an hidden window displayed.

Select F1 to continue, if you get "force quit!!!" message some of the settings are wrong, start from beginning :)

If everything fine the DSO will display

Creating TDC(1GSps)
Push KEY_F0 to force quit!!!


just wait until is it ready (a minute max.)

now select trigger type to pulse, open second page (F6)
and select "=" and pulse width of your test signal (so for 10MHz 50ns). As we in 4ns/DIV the next possible value
is 48ns, however you can change the horizontal res. to 20ns/DIV, select pulse Width to 50ns and select back the
horizontal res. to 4ns/DIV.

Now again click multiple time (fast) the key "trigger menu", again hidden menu will get displayed, select there F1.

If everything fine the DSO will display

Creating TDC(1GSps)
Push KEY_F0 to force quit!!!


just wait until is it ready (a minute max.)

now select trigger type to O.T. (over time) and select lowest overtime value (should be 24ns)

Now again click multiple time (fast) the key "trigger menu", again hidden menu will get displayed, select there F1.

If everything fine the DSO will display

Creating TDC(1GSps)
Push KEY_F0 to force quit!!!


just wait until is it ready (a minute max.)

That's all, the DSO have now created all necessary factory calibration files.

Now you can disconnect the 10MHz signal generator and run self-calibration.

You can reply all these steps to get best results.

Finally, if you happy, delete the tdc.new file by
rm /tdc.new

or by clicking multiple time (fast) the key "trigger menu" and selecting there F3 from the hidden menu.

what else ...

During the factory calibration the firmware is automaitcally re-loading the created files, so you don't haev to restart the DSO
to run self-calibration.

However, if you break up the factory calibration or wish only to test it, you will need to reboot DSO to reload
your original data (which of course need to be restored first as mentioned above).

The good thing is, you can't damage HanTekway DSO, the linux OS makes backup/restore easy,
now as we know how factory calibration works we can play with whatever we wish (except CPLD programming
which can't be restored - but Hantek have no issues at all to sell/send you replacement CPLD).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ECL on June 14, 2011, 07:19:29 pm
simple, there is a array with possible bandwidth values, 

[0..6] '02  04  06  08  10  15  20'

so we have 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 150 and 200MHz.

If the model is set to DST1062B we have 60MHz bw, so the value 06 is selected
which is second value in the array and with DST1202 we have 200MHz, so value 20 which
is the last, also 6th value from the array.

This array will be used to specify the bw filter corner frequency.

Ah, yes, that makes sense, thanks!  :)

Regards the fw version, well hard to say, i remember there are some ugly bugs in 2.6.2,
so it might make sense to update to latest (which have already some bug fixed, but still crashing in measurment-> help menu and
after few minutes when trigger selected to alt. )

Thanks, I think I will give the upgrade a whirl.  2.6.2 is okay, but I've gotten it to crash
as well.  Hopefully Hantek/Tekway will fix the crashing bugs soon.  I can live with buggy
software, but lock-ups are a big no-no ...  :)

ECL  -K
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ECL on June 14, 2011, 07:34:29 pm
About Factory Calibration

Fantastic!!!  Great job tinhead!

ECL  -K
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 14, 2011, 11:33:39 pm
Only for those who have firmware version 2.06.3 (110420) installed

since fw version 2.06.2 there is a "bug" which prevents from exporting more than 40k as CSV.

As HanTekway is not doing anything on that i finally got pissed off and patched the firmware.

There is memory depth check in the middle of the "DoKeyOption2InMenuSaveRecallCSV" procedure


      BL   Store_GetStoreDepthLib
      MOV   R3, 0x9C40
      CMP   R0, R3
      LDMGTDB   R11, {R11,SP,PC}

so i did nop'ed it

      BL   Store_GetStoreDepthLib
      MOV   R3, 0x9C40
      CMP   R0, R3
      NOP

and now i can export full 1M long memory as CSV.

If you need this feature, all you have to do is:

- connect over UART
- insert USB Stick with the attached dso.exe (unzip it first ...) and wait until the stick will get mounted
- kill the DSO application by typing "killall dso.exe"
- copy over the dso.exe ( cp /mnt/dso.exe / )
- change file permission ( chmod 777 /dso.exe )
- test it by typing /dso.exe

If everything works you can remove the stick, disconnect from UART and restart the DSO

Btw, it seems that HanTekway did it for a reason (really?), there seems to be a watchdog running,
as the 1M CSV export takes 40 seconds it might happen that the DSO will crash.

The best way to prevent it from crash is to close the file menu right after the file has been written.

And yeah, i did changed the file revision number to what it should be 2.06.3 (110420), i just
don't like wrong numbers (you remember, that was a small "bug", the file got changed by the developer forgto to
increase version number).


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ECL on June 15, 2011, 12:34:44 am

I wonder why they didn't just break up the transactions, into smaller
chunks (16-32K), so the watchdog can get "scratched" regularly?
It sounds like the speed of the USB flash stick will also factor into
how big an export can be performed, without triggering the watchdog?

Short of releasing a complete source package, or a development kit,
I wonder if Hantek/Tekway would be open to the idea of releasing
key source files, where known bugs are likely to reside?  After all, I
doubt there is too much proprietary technology in their file manager
app, or the CSV export routines.  They could publish the file, let the
user community submit changes, and then reintegrate on their end.
They could save a lot of time, and expense, and we could get critical
bugs fixed.  Everybody wins. 

BTW, thanks for getting pissed off  ;)

ECL  -K
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 15, 2011, 01:28:21 am

I wonder why they didn't just break up the transactions, into smaller
chunks (16-32K), so the watchdog can get "scratched" regularly?
It sounds like the speed of the USB flash stick will also factor into
how big an export can be performed, without triggering the watchdog?


hard to trace it, 10x saved o crash. So it happens sometimes only, especially if you
did songle shot and click run instead of close file menu and then continue acc.
So it might be something else causing the self kill.



Short of releasing a complete source package, or a development kit,
I wonder if Hantek/Tekway would be open to the idea of releasing
key source files, where known bugs are likely to reside?  After all, I
doubt there is too much proprietary technology in their file manager
app, or the CSV export routines.  They could publish the file, let the
user community submit changes, and then reintegrate on their end.
They could save a lot of time, and expense, and we could get critical
bugs fixed.  Everybody wins. 

[dream-mode on]
yeah, this would be great ...
[dream-mode off]

but i doubt they will do it

BTW, thanks for getting pissed off  ;)

you welcome!

Btw, i haven't changed the import procedure, it will still refuse 512k and 1M CSV import.
I think that's ok, in most cases we need to export data to do something with it on PC.
If i have to store large raw waveform data (for whatever comp. ) then the recorder is the best way to export and import it.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ECL on June 17, 2011, 08:42:46 pm

For anyone considering adding a fan to the Hantek/Tekway, here are a couple
off the shelf options:

Link Depot FAN-5015-B (15CFM, 29dba): 

http://www.link-depot.com/dc_fan_5015b.html (http://www.link-depot.com/dc_fan_5015b.html)

Startech FAN5X1TX3 (Evercool EC5010M12BA, 8.63 CFM, 23dba):

http://www.startech.com/product/FAN5X1TX3-5x1-cm-TX3-Replacement-Ball-Bearing-Fan-also-includes-a-TX3-to-LP4-adapter (http://www.startech.com/product/FAN5X1TX3-5x1-cm-TX3-Replacement-Ball-Bearing-Fan-also-includes-a-TX3-to-LP4-adapter)

I evaluated both units, in my scope.  Both are 12VDC nominal bias.  The Startech has about half the airflow
of the Link Depot, but is also much quieter.  If you are going for minimum noise, but want a little air moving,
the Startech is the best option.  If noise is not a big issue, I recommend the Link Depot.  Based on the
shielding design, venting and underside mounted ADC's, the Startech is a bit underpowered for the job, in my
opinion.  The noise level of the Link Depot, when the unit is fully assembled, is on par or quieter than other
gear in my lab (PC's, scopes, LA etc ...).  One advantage, to the Startech, is that it comes with a male 3-pin fan
adapter, that can be used to fill the empty (fan power) pads on the power supply. 

ECL  -K
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: colinbeeforth on June 18, 2011, 06:07:35 am
Re fans, take a look at the Sunon "maglev" fans, they use a magnetic levitation system to eliminate running bearings.  I've had experience with lots of equipment running 24 hrs that had constant fan failures.  We solved the problem at modest cost by using the maglev fans.  Traditionally, ball bearing fans have been the choice for lifetime, but I've found the new maglevs were reliable even with full time operation.  For my Hantek, I fitted a 12 volt maglev fan, and replaced the spare unused 7812 regulator on the power supply board with a 7805 (7808 would be ok also) regulator.  The fan has no start up problems and runs very quietly.  I soldered a male connector onto the empty place on the power supply board, and fitted a connector to the fan lead.  It's hard to tell it isn't original.  Despite running quietly it does a good job of cooling.  I hate loud fans.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 24, 2011, 01:59:18 pm
for those who looking for 64bit driver, Hantek relesed them today, they works of course for Tekway too.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: flodins on June 24, 2011, 10:38:52 pm
another DSO hacked, this time in Poland, thanks (:
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 25, 2011, 11:49:03 am
another DSO hacked, this time in Poland, thanks (:

musi dzia?a?, wiadomo kto wymysli? :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: WanaGo on June 26, 2011, 03:42:02 am
Hi Tinhead

So from what I am reading, the Tekway DST1102B is the same as the Hantec DSO5102B?

I am just starting to read up on these now as I have been looking at the Atten ADS1102CML, and also the Rigol DS1052E with hack etc, but the Hantec looks promising albeit more expensive.

http://www.goodluckbuy.com/hantek-digital-storage-oscilloscope-dso5102b-100m-1gs-s-7-wide-screen.html

$640.48 I assume is about as cheap as this comes?

$530 for the Atten 1102CML, which doesnt have a high a resolution as the Hantec.

$370 or so for the Rigol.

Cheers
James
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: colinbeeforth on June 26, 2011, 05:02:15 am
Hi James,
Are you quoting US dollar prices?  Group members are from all over the world.
The models you quote don't have equal hardware so that affects price.  Check carefully the screen resolution, the Hantek/Tekway DSO5102B is 800 horizontal by 480 vertical.  Many other DSOs have vertical resolution less than 256 points which is needed to nicely display an 8 bit sampled waveform.  If you look at a clean sine wave on low screen resolution scopes, they always show jaggies, not smooth curves.  DSOs are not even slightly simple, and comparisons are complex, but the the Hantek/Tekway screen is much nicer.  All the low cost scopes are a compromise, they all have aspects that aren't so good, so you must keep that in mind, you are not getting the equivalent of HP or LeCroy at a cheap price.  If you can afford it, the new range of HP DSOs give much better performance.  That said, the Hantek DSO5102B and the identical Tekway DST1102B are the best performance for dollar 100MHz DSOs on the low cost market.  Last year, Rigol was the best option, but the market changes quickly.  I have two older expensive digital scopes, but use the Hantek because the colour screen is easy to read and the DSO is tiny.  Besides, when my LeCroy 9310M fails, what will I use to diagnose it?  Probably the Hantek!  Best wishes, Colin in Melbourne, Australia
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: WanaGo on June 26, 2011, 05:08:18 am
Thanks Colin

Yes I was quoting US $, it tends to be the most universal $ on forums.

The more reading I do on these the better I like it.

Apart from the screen, It would be great to get a comparison to the ADS1102CML in terms of performance.

Regards
James
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on June 27, 2011, 11:49:52 am
New DSO5102B and 5062B.

FW 2.06.3 (110531.1)
HW 10070x555583e8

first 10 minutes fast looking around.. 

not bad... maybe least one fatal bug is repaired(??) or I have forget how to test..   need more tests (now busy)

5062B -3dB  well over 100MHz ;) 

5102B  -3dB just as before with new (blue) mainboard.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 27, 2011, 12:15:12 pm
nice, 110531.1 ... i hope it will be available public (soon)

Btw, HW 10070 seems to be a new hardware revision, do you see any difference?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on June 27, 2011, 12:32:11 pm
nice, 110531.1 ... i hope it will be available public (soon)

Btw, HW 10070 seems to be a new hardware revision, do you see any difference?

Not opened, not any older for compare with eyes but only  as compared to my memory feels  like littlebit less noisy and maybe ADC mismatching noise less - maybe only dreaming?. Have not now time for test more.

Update: Just littlebit opened and, wow...  Hantek have do development in production quality, specially soldering and cleaning work is now better. Well cleaned (not just as spacecraft electronics but still good) , also nice soldering.  (before just new board was blue... now it is agen green, Ver 1.00.7.)

But this is only one random individual unit. (also I have seen work quality variations before)



Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: pgup62 on June 27, 2011, 01:48:45 pm
Hi,
French "Soldes" in Elec3i (http://elec3i.com/specials.php) for 6 weeks. Eevblog users discount (30EUR) for Hantek DSO5000 series still running. :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 28, 2011, 05:05:59 pm
i did checked the firmware 2.06.3 (110531.1), works really stable.

There are still two "bugs":
- no export for 512k and 1M CSV
- help file in meausre menu is crashing DSO

For those who can't wait for official update:

I updated the help file (no more crashes, reason was simple - special characters inside SQL) and patched
the firmware to allow 512k and 1M CSV export. I leaved import as is, maximal 40k CSV can be re-imported back to DSO.

Attached dso.exe, language files and the help file.

It does work with all known hardware revisions, however you will have to copy these files over UART and
of course change permissions to chmod 777 * (or the DSO will not start-up)


Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on June 28, 2011, 08:33:21 pm
for those who looking for 64bit driver, Hantek relesed them today, they works of course for Tekway too.

I've been waiting for ages for this 64 bit Driver. But I always have trouble finding anything on the Hantek Website. I've searched everywhere but can't find it. Can someone PLEASE point me in the correct direction with the URL address for the 64 bit Windows 7 Driver for TTscope software.

Thanks all for your help.

RFman.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ECL on June 28, 2011, 09:07:21 pm
Quote
Can someone PLEASE point me in the correct direction with the URL address for the 64 bit Windows 7 Driver for TTscope software

Sure, try here:

http://www.hantek.com.cn/Product/64Driver/DSO5000.rar

ECL  -K
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: carloscuev on June 29, 2011, 11:42:03 am
Could somebody please share the 2.06.3 (110531.1) firmware for Tekway? (for a 100Mhz hacked to 200Mhz device, I guess I should ask for a 200Mhz device right?)
Thanks :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 29, 2011, 01:27:04 pm
ready compiled update file for Tekway DSOs only (with patched 512k/1M CSV export and updated help file)

NOTE: Do not use this on DSO bought after June 1st 2011 (or having hw1007 .. check system info before you run!!!)

On these scopes you have to copy files manually, see this:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg52173#msg52173

If you already updated and scope is not working properly it is not too late, look here for solution:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg52500#msg52500
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 29, 2011, 01:27:30 pm
ready compiled update files for Hantek DSOs only (with patched 512k/1M CSV export and updated help file)

NOTE: Do not use this on DSO bought after June 1st 2011 (or having hw1007 .. check system info before you run!!!)

On these scopes you have to copy files manually, see this:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg52173#msg52173

If you already updated and scope is not working properly it is not too late, look here for solution:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg52500#msg52500
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Pinkus on June 29, 2011, 10:28:07 pm
Many thanks to Tinhead and all other who are contributing.
I finally changed my 5102 to a 5202 (never took the time for this) and upgraded to the new latest firmware.
Lets hope it is not crashing as often as before. A first test quick seems to promise that it is a better FW now.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: flodins on June 29, 2011, 10:30:30 pm
i'm trying to setup gentoo on this scope, work is going well soon i'll have full linux and scope on one board (:
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: RFman on June 29, 2011, 11:21:51 pm
Quote
Can someone PLEASE point me in the correct direction with the URL address for the 64 bit Windows 7 Driver for TTscope software

Sure, try here:

http://www.hantek.com.cn/Product/64Driver/DSO5000.rar

ECL  -K

Thanks very much ELC,

RFman
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: carloscuev on June 30, 2011, 04:15:36 am
ready compiled update file for Tekway DSOs only (with patched 512k/1M CSV export and updated help file)

Thank you very much Tinhead !
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on June 30, 2011, 06:57:05 am
ready compiled update files for Hantek DSOs only (with patched 512k/1M CSV export and updated help file)

Thank you very much tinhead about nice work!
I hope that the company Hantek also like to thank and appreciate the work you've done.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Pinkus on June 30, 2011, 08:00:53 am
Mmmmh - first bug found where the scope always crashes??
· Press button "Display"
· Choosing XY instead of YT immediately chrashes my scope.
Hardware: Hantek5102B, pimped to 5202B
HW 10005 (blue PCB), latest FW (110531.1. from Tinheads files dst1kb_2.06.3_15202b_fact)
Can somebody verify that this crash happens everywhere?

One more questions:
I noticed, that in my terminal program the scope says:
root@Tekway-dso /]#
I assume that is OK ??

Update: Logfile (RS232 output) is attached
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 30, 2011, 08:09:19 am
Thank you very much tinhead about nice work!
I hope that the company Hantek also like to thank and appreciate the work you've done.

you welcome.

You mean is it time to ask for free Hantek Handheld DSO ? Or maybe one of the new DSO5000BMV series?
Probably i should, support costs always money. However, they know my address and my real name, so up to them.

As i said BMV series, do you noticed they updated series ? Long memory now with 2M instead of 1M, build-in 2GB flash card.
http://www.hantek.com.cn/english/produce_list.asp?unid=134
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 30, 2011, 08:22:43 am
Mmmmh - first bug found where the scope always crashes??
· Press button "Display"
· Choosing XY instead of YT immediately chrashes my scope.
Can somebody verify that this crash happens everywhere?

yes, i noticed it too. It does have something to do with an overflow during channel activation.
However it works perfect if you enable (just turn on, it does not matter if then on AC/DC/GND) both channels
or actually disable (turn off) both channels before you enable XY mode.

A small bug only, normally you will anyway enable both channels, setup coupling etc. before you go to XY.


One more questions:
I noticed, that in my terminal program the scope says:
root@Tekway-dso /]#
I assume that is OK ??
yes, don't care about that. That's historical thing, both companies belongs to sahe share holders and dev team is also shared,
probably Hantek could update root fs and change hostname, but normally enduser have nothing to do there.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on June 30, 2011, 09:26:31 am
Mmmmh - first bug found where the scope always crashes??
· Press button "Display"
· Choosing XY instead of YT immediately chrashes my scope.
Hardware: Hantek5102B, pimped to 5202B
HW 10005 (blue PCB), latest FW (110531.1. from Tinheads files dst1kb_2.06.3_15202b_fact)
Can somebody verify that this crash happens everywhere?

One more questions:
I noticed, that in my terminal program the scope says:
root@Tekway-dso /]#
I assume that is OK ??

Update: Logfile (RS232 output) is attached

Also with original hantek factory installed 110531.1 FW and version 7 HW (original unmodified DSO5062B and also unmodified DSO5102B)

(BTW it is same type crash what happend with measure menu if use help... (--> Killed.)  Scope did not loose his mind... after crash it follow UART commands.
totally different if compare example zoom window crash in old FW... what is really crash)

So problem is in original Hantek FW and also with new ver 7 HW.

Both Channels off or on, no crash. Only one on -> Killed (not crashed to random but need still power off/on if terminal is not connected to uart.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: flodins on June 30, 2011, 07:27:13 pm
tinhead

Do you know what toolchain they used in hantek? I'm still trying to run chroot on scope.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on June 30, 2011, 07:39:07 pm
NOTE!

Do not use this new here shared 110531.1 FW (tinhead shared  .up) for new HW version 10070 scopes.

this time it is not compatible without some adjustment/repair.

Only for HW 10050 and below afaik.

(original factory installed 110531.1 works of course with new 10070 HW)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 30, 2011, 08:04:37 pm
NOTE!

Do not use this new here shared 110531.1 FW (tinhead shared  .up) for new HW version 10070 scopes.

this time it is not compatible without some adjustment/repair.

Only for HW 10050 and below afaik.

(original factory installed 110531.1 works of course with new 10070 HW)


right, sorry i forgot to tell this because in principle all hw1007 boards have exact the same firmware version .. of course except fixed help file and patched dso.exe to support larger CSV export ... now i see the problem, if someone having
hw1007 try to update over existing "same" firmware then of course the DSO will stop to work properly.

The reason is actually very simple, the update script don't know "yet" hw1007, so it will copy wrong FPGA design.
This will not damage the hardware, but the firmware will not work properly.

In such case you have to:
- copy attached file to USB stick
- insert stick into DSO
- connect over UART
- run this killall dso.exe
- run cp /mnt/dn.rbf /
- run chmod 777 /*
and then start the dso application by typing /dso.exe

as far i can see this should be sufficient.

I case you tried to "fix" with self-calibration you will have to run it again after these steps in above.


Some tech. background:

Since hw1007 the firmware (dso.exe) is checking the hardware revision within few functions and calling in a different
way the FPGA. So if the eeprom/board are 1007 everything fine as long the fpga design is from hw1007.
Now what here happens is that the update script don't know yet hw1007 and definitely copied older fpga design file
overwriting the 1007 version, which of course don't have new functions implemented and the DSO is getting "crazy".
Therefore this simple fix - restore of hw1007 fpga design file (dn.rbf) should helps out.

Even if there is some backward compatibility (actually the dn.rbf from hw1007 works on hw0 too), i would
not recommend to use different version than the one designed for the specific hw revision.
We can test many things, but we don't have view into the sources, so it might be dangerous mixing versions.

The executable itself (dso.exe) is a different story, Hantek will probably some day drop support for hw 0,
but as of now they still supporting and developing only one executable file for all models (even these 500MSs models have the same dso.exe file) and all hw revisions.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 30, 2011, 09:24:02 pm
Thank you very much tinhead about nice work!
I hope that the company Hantek also like to thank and appreciate the work you've done.

you welcome.

You mean is it time to ask for free Hantek Handheld DSO ? Or maybe one of the new DSO5000BMV series?
Probably i should, support costs always money. However, they know my address and my real name, so up to them.


... and now you can write "Don't count your chickens before they hatch"

Actually i was thinking maybe for 5sec. about the update script compatibility with hw1007 ... but at that time i
wasn't thinking about compiled update files, instead of that i posted  files for manual update ...
and later as i finally decided (on request .. yeah, not my fault :P) to compile all these files i was not thinking
anymore about hw1007/update script potenatial compatibility issue .. here we go.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on June 30, 2011, 10:15:08 pm
tinhead

Do you know what toolchain they used in hantek? I'm still trying to run chroot on scope.

i tell you something, with different linux you will probably get some issues with lcd , definitely with usb,
we don't know the i/o nor memory mapping of cpld and fpga ... so we running blind.

If you need to compile kernel modules for this board, a good starting point is QQ2440 2.6.13 toolchain, gcc 2.95.3 OABI
(however i complied mtd utils with 3.4.1 EABI). A good idea is to look for firendlyarm2440, mini2440, qq2440, tq2440 boards
and 2.6.13 sources/cross toolchains, many things are already really ancient but you will still find them
(someone posted in this thread link for Q2440 sources).

This will work for all things except new hardware like wifi-sticks (ok, there are some working exceptions).

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: flodins on July 01, 2011, 01:20:52 am
tinhead

Do you know what toolchain they used in hantek? I'm still trying to run chroot on scope.

i tell you something, with different linux you will probably get some issues with lcd , definitely with usb,
we don't know the i/o nor memory mapping of cpld and fpga ... so we running blind.

If you need to compile kernel modules for this board, a good starting point is QQ2440 2.6.13 toolchain, gcc 2.95.3 OABI
(however i complied mtd utils with 3.4.1 EABI). A good idea is to look for firendlyarm2440, mini2440, qq2440, tq2440 boards
and 2.6.13 sources/cross toolchains, many things are already really ancient but you will still find them
(someone posted in this thread link for Q2440 sources).

This will work for all things except new hardware like wifi-sticks (ok, there are some working exceptions).

There is no problem with usb or lcd, framebuffer test works, I can display anything on screen. I can't make busybox or other binutils working. Then I whant to put X11 on screen and run some soft with GUI
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 01, 2011, 10:03:10 am
There is no problem with usb or lcd, framebuffer test works, I can display anything on screen. I can't make busybox or other binutils working. Then I whant to put X11 on screen and run some soft with GUI

you misunderstood me, i'm talking about possible DSO application issues not about the hardware itself.
On the hardware level itself you can install whatever, WinCE, µCOS, RTOS, *nix - this is Samsung SoC S3C2440
board + DSO extras.

But there might be an issue when the dso.exe tries to access LCD or accessing USB for DSO<->PC communication or general issues trying to access i/o and mapped memory. Just look into /dso/drivers directory and you will see why drivers you
will need to rebuilt without sources. Sure, maybe these original drivers will work with tainted kernel, but if not
you will have do recompile them .. and we don't have source code for them. And sure, you could disassemble them and recompile, but that's might not work either if you do it wrong.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: flodins on July 02, 2011, 12:50:23 am
Now I know that they use crosstool-0.27 gcc 2.3.2 and glibc 3.4.1 to Fedora Core 4 system (: oh source code could save lot of time, How did you know about "rgj" developer?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 02, 2011, 08:53:22 am
Now I know that they use crosstool-0.27 gcc 2.3.2 and glibc 3.4.1 to Fedora Core 4 system (: oh source code could save lot of time, How did you know about "rgj" developer?

This time whole scope was  Tekway. Small company who first copy some Tektronix extremely poor model but after then they develop new scope. They sell also scopes to organization under PLA.


But this kind of fun can also today find inside FW:

"
 #2007-9-29  by rgj
if [  -f /$1 ]; then
        echo "have dso_update.exe"
        if [ -f /dso.exe ]; then
                mv /$1 /dso.exe
                echo "do backup and update the sysytem"
        fi
else
        echo "no update file to foud"
fi
echo "now run app ....."
exit 1
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Gall on July 04, 2011, 06:00:14 am
i tell you something, with different linux you will probably get some issues with lcd , definitely with usb,
we don't know the i/o nor memory mapping of cpld and fpga ... so we running blind.
Haven't you tried to determine this?

Most likely the peripherals are occupying whole memory banks (nGCS#x) for simplicity. One memory bank of S4C2440 is 128M, and it is quite probbale that the DSO's memory is just mapped to S3C2440's address space. Another memory bank may be used for control registers ant it may be that only 2-3 least significant bits are used while MSBs are completely ignored, resulting in 4-8 io ports occupying the whole 128M bank.

Did you make any other hires photos of the board with components unsoldered? May be we can run the kernel debugger?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 05, 2011, 06:04:44 pm
Haven't you tried to determine this?

Most likely the peripherals are occupying whole memory banks (nGCS#x) for simplicity. One memory bank of S4C2440 is 128M, and it is quite probbale that the DSO's memory is just mapped to S3C2440's address space. Another memory bank may be used for control registers ant it may be that only 2-3 least significant bits are used while MSBs are completely ignored, resulting in 4-8 io ports occupying the whole 128M bank.

i know how this works, it was just a simplified answer who just trying to update Linux version without
deep hadrware knowledge.

Did you make any other hires photos of the board with components unsoldered?

no, not yet. I got some broken boards so i will finalize schematics of hw0 soon.
Unfortunately boundary san was not working properly for all pins (like adress bus, etc.)

May be we can run the kernel debugger?

afaik there is no integrated kernel debugger in 2.6.13

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 05, 2011, 07:33:43 pm
For those who have 2.06.3 (110531.1) installed:

I did modified the English.lan which is the menu file if you specify English UI.

The changes are in principle everywhere, typo corrections, naming changes from chinese-english translation to
proper good-known names, word-wrap fix to all message boxes (Probe check, Firmware updates etc...),
warnings and error messages and so on.

Not that i can't work with "regular" instead of "Pass/Fail mask" or "Open" instead of "Run" or "On",
but it makes definitely sense to not spend time for guessing what the function is actually doing.

Attached two update files:
dst1kb_2.06.3_newlang(110531.1).up - this one is with the proper English
dst1kb_2.06.3_orglang(110531.1).up - this one is the original one, in case you wish to restore back for whatever reason

The update works on both Tekway and Hantek models (update is not model dependant), however
please do not install it if you have different firmware version than 2.06.3 (110531.1) as it might breaks something.

If you like it let me know, maybe Hantek/Tekway will implement it into the next official firmware version.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: jellytot on July 06, 2011, 10:33:56 am
Thanks Tinhead. Thats a huge improvement, I think that Hantekway would only be too grateful
to have this work done for them...I hope they do use it in future builds.. :)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 06, 2011, 12:30:15 pm
Yes, really nice work. Thanks!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: jyo on July 06, 2011, 02:15:53 pm
Great job, tinhead. Oscar of the best DSO hacker! ;)
But we are not in Kansas, true? What about a french langage update?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: walt on July 06, 2011, 03:34:53 pm
Hi guy`s!

I read tinhead post about DC/DC converter on 3.3V.

Most easy and low cost way its magamp in current fly-back PSU. Like in standard ATX PSU on 3.3v rail.
No linear IC (~1$), same diode, little more big capacitor and inductor.
And no heat.


By the way, If  add capacity to existing smoothing inductor to form a parallel oscillatory circuit with a frequency converter can be greatly reduced noise frequency conversion.
   
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: JRoque on July 06, 2011, 09:13:23 pm
Hello all. I had to register to thank tinhead for his help. I purchased a Chinese version of the DST1102B for USD $580 including - get this - next day shipping! They sent me a Chinese AC plug but that's fine. The USB port in the back doesn't work.. yikes. They also sent me a front panel sticker in English.

I went through all of this thread and nothing seemed to work. Oh the scope was complaining about something but I have no idea what it was. I got to the last page and found out that my 10070 hw version scope, already with 2.06.3 fw wouldn't take the same fw again. The last file updated by honorable and oh wise one tinhead did it and now my UI is in English.

BTW, my PC complains about an unrecognized device being plugged in. I've seen this issue before with my own USB devices where I've missolder (a word?) the USB chip or a short is drawing too much current. Now that my menu is readable (to me), I'll see what else I find. But this will likely be a hardware issue with the scope USB driver chip - and there goes any savings I had by buying direct from China :-)

Regards,
JR
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 06, 2011, 10:35:15 pm
first of all try to find out what king of message you saw on the screen ...

Regards the USB, well the transciever is integrated into the main µC (Samsung S3C2440), this is a BGA chip so it
might be soldering issue (PB-free sucks). However, it might be something else too (like a cold soldered series resistor
between BGA chip and USB plug, or cable).

Btw,you should connect the DSO to PC after the DSO fully started-up, this is because of the fact that the S3C2440
will send different VID/PID during boot process (actually this is coming from the bootloader) and laetr different one
after Linux on the DSO started-up.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: JRoque on July 06, 2011, 11:52:49 pm
Hi. My guess is that the messages I was seeing before were related to the firmware conflict. They were red in color, does that help? 8=)

I got it to connect... sort of. I powered it off, disconnected it from mains and waited 5 mins (switched on for max drain). I then plugged AC in and booted it. After about 30 seconds I plugged it into the PC and no error! It now says "Tekway Measurement Device" in Windows Device Manager. I launch TTScope and it connects to the scope but it says: "No exsit [sic] configuration files to this machine!", whatever that means. The only thing that seems to work is the "Auto Set" function from the Setup list.

I'm going to try your suggestion of waiting a couple of minutes after booting to see if that helps.

Regards,
JR

PS: I rather shoot myself in the foot than trying to replace a PB-free BGA. Thanks for the warning.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 06, 2011, 11:59:50 pm
I launch TTScope and it connects to the scope but it says: "No exsit [sic] configuration files to this machine!", whatever that means. The only thing that seems to work is the "Auto Set" function from the Setup list.

download the latest ttscope from Hantek website ... it is compatible with Tekway DSO.
http://www.hantek.com.cn/Product/DSO5000Series/DSO5000/TTScope.EXE (http://www.hantek.com.cn/Product/DSO5000Series/DSO5000/TTScope.EXE)

you can also use the latest drivers (there is for 32 and 64bit OSs)
http://www.hantek.com.cn/Product/64Driver/DSO5000.rar (http://www.hantek.com.cn/Product/64Driver/DSO5000.rar)


PS: I rather shoot myself in the foot than trying to replace a PB-free BGA. Thanks for the warning.

hehe, easier as you think, in each every country there a mobile phone/xbox repair stores, they can do it for you.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: JRoque on July 07, 2011, 12:20:54 am
Ok, where do I send you a Paypal donation? That worked flawlessly. See if you can PM me your email address or if you have (you should!) a Paypal donation button somewhere that would work too.

Also, waiting a minute or two for the DSO to fully boot is also working.

Regards and, really, thank you!
JR
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 07, 2011, 01:18:44 am
you welcome, and no, donation is not necessary, my support if free of charge!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: colinbeeforth on July 07, 2011, 04:42:48 am
Hi Tinhead,

Thanks very much for the improved English language file. I greatly appreciate your work on this!

I have been using my Hantek DSO5102B for much of my work lately, and comparing the results to my LeCroy 9310M.  In general, the Hantek is not as logical as the LeCroy, but I understand - it achieves a lot with cheaper hardware.  I am beginning to appreciate it's usefulness, the nice screen and the small bench size.  I wish it would not crash quite so often.  Like you advised me a while back, I've tried not to stress too much about exactly how it achieves what it does, and just use it.  Hantek sent me a list of timebase setting versus digitiser speed, and it's a bit strange, but obviously trying to get around some sort of hardware limitations.  In practical usage, the Hantek screen usually looks like the LeCroy screen, if you are not trying to do something tricky with the LeCroy's waveform processing maths.  I've often used waveform processing to extract information where any other digital scope would be useless, but I'm not doing so much of that research type work these days.  So, I took your advice, and stopped fussing so much, and I'm getting some work done with the scope.  Thanks again for the improved language file, that really does help to make using the machine nicer.  It's a shame that Hantek/Tekway couldn't do that in the first place...  It doesn't look like they will ever admit they need some help.  Cheers, Colin, Melbourne, Australia
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 07, 2011, 08:43:45 am

  Hantek sent me a list of timebase setting versus digitiser speed, and it's a bit strange, but obviously trying to get around some sort of hardware limitations. 

Is it possible get this information?
I like to see how they have explain it.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 07, 2011, 04:58:33 pm
Thanks again for the improved language file, that really does help to make using the machine nicer.  It's a shame that Hantek/Tekway couldn't do that in the first place...  It doesn't look like they will ever admit they need some help.

I've send all modified files to Hantek, they promised to review it and implement evt. in later fw versions.

For sure we could blame Hantek, but actually we know that Tekway designed the multilanguage version in the first place,
so some things has been just overtaken. And you probably know how company merger works,
an CEO or even product manager will not look into such technical details (and you can be sure these ppl speak perfect english).
On the other side i know many talented engineers over the world not talking (or actually writing) perfect english.
So it is just something between company overtake/merger and QC. Sure, Hantek website does have
some typos too, but other and bigger companys are not that much better, so what.

For me is important that they reading this thread, in contact with me (and some other ppl here),
that they listening carefully and trying to improve their products. This is more than actually expected from
a non-global player (think just Fluke and their no-response to Dave's issues).

Btw, i said there are new products on Hantek websote, BM and BMV models. I got an confirmation that
they will be not ready before Sep 2011.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: A Hellene on July 07, 2011, 09:57:11 pm
I am trying to see what a modern DSO input stage looks like: the most modern schematic I have found so far is from the Tek 2232 (June 1992 !).
Well, I think that you can consider yourself lucky, since I have just posted(!) the Rigol DS1052E HW58 (2011 March PCB revision) Channel 1 analog front-end schematics (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=4048.msg53676#msg53676), while trying to troubleshoot my device (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.0)!



Tinhead,
If you examine the schematics mentioned above you will discover a few differences that exist between them and the DST1102B schematics you have posted earlier.
I hope that helps a little...


-George



[EDIT]: Schematics updated.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 07, 2011, 10:31:38 pm
i remember i posted few times the input stage, it wasn't complette anyway (or actually some copy/paste errors in values)

Attached the latest version, and yes there are some small diffs in attenuator compensation especially, but nothing
really important at all.

As i said before i will post soon the complette schematics, i have to find some time to ping here and there once again
to ensure everything match.

Btw: all important caps has been unsoldered and measured, all others are estimated values in circuit (when possible),
not important decoupling caps/inductors/ferrite bead skipped - every good EE know they are there.
CH2 is a bit different around HC595 as because HC595 within trigger circuit and both input channels HC595
are in same chain (you will see it)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: A Hellene on July 07, 2011, 10:36:46 pm
Thank you, tinhead!

I'll do the same with my DS1052E HW58 (2011.03 batch) schematics, when they become ready for publishing.


-George



[EDIT]: Sorry for the delayed response; I did not see in time the additional information you posted.

I have not removed the capacitors to read their values, so the values in my schematics are estimated (measured on board and calculated). When I will find the time needed to do that I will remove the critical ones (the timing/ filtering/ etc.) and will update the schematics.

Regarding the 'HC595, Rigol uses the faster AHC595 (marked HA595), even though I cannot see the reason why they do that because they are driven (by the BlackFin) with relatively slow signals (10.0MHz) and their fan-out is almost the same. The three AHC595 are also cascaded in the DS1000 and they are also driving the two VGAs. When the processor is addressing the VGAs it sends a 16-bit word and toggles their LATCH input; when the BlackFin is addressing the 595 shift registers it sends a 24-bit word and toggles their RCLK lines that are tied together. The first 595 that controls the Ch1 components takes the MSB, the second 595 that controls the Ch2 components takes the middle byte (the NSB), and the third 595 that drives the Video amplifier (LMH6574) address lines (A1:A0), the HC4053 control and the trigger signal blanking takes the LSB.

On the other hand, the two HC4051 demultiplexers and the DAC are driven by the Lattice LUT in the same manner: The HC4051 share the same address lines (S2:S0) and their /Enable lines are driven individually. The DAC has its own driving lines and produces 10 discrete voltage levels that are demultiplexed by the two HC4051 and buffered & amplified by four of the five TLC274 quad op-amps.

It seems that those two designs (the Rigol and the Tekway/Hantek) are not so different after all...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: A Hellene on July 08, 2011, 09:04:08 am
You are welcome!

But the credit goes to Tinhead, since his work has been an inspiration for many of us.


-George
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on July 08, 2011, 11:06:32 am
As the forum doesn't have a thank you button, need to express my personal thanks for the decoding of the PCB,  tinhead and Hellene, most excellent work.  I continue to follow all your posts closely!


You are welcome!

But the credit goes to Tinhead, since his work has been an inspiration for many of us.


-George
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: A Hellene on July 08, 2011, 11:53:50 am
Thank you for your kind words, saturation!


-George
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: saturation on July 08, 2011, 01:10:02 pm
Alas, without volume pricing on parts, we'll very likely pay more if we assembled it ourselves, given a free, open hardware design.  That's not adding the time and labor.  Its probably far easier to extend or modify existing hardware to improve its performance, than build from scratch.

When I see so many talented people struggling to make such proprietary DSOs work as expected, despite language, culture and manufacturer's short term-only vision, and put so many efforts in it, I am now sure it is worth trying to develop a decent open source/hardware DSO!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: Igor on July 08, 2011, 05:19:25 pm
Tinhead, if in the window “Display” press F4 (Format XY) oscilloscope hangs and stops responding to all buttons. You can only revive the Power button (re-enable).
Do You encountered this error?
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 08, 2011, 05:59:30 pm
Tinhead, if in the window “Display” press F4 (Format XY) oscilloscope hangs and stops responding to all buttons. You can only revive the Power button (re-enable).
Do You encountered this error?

Mmmmh - first bug found where the scope always crashes??
· Press button "Display"
· Choosing XY instead of YT immediately chrashes my scope.
Can somebody verify that this crash happens everywhere?

yes, i noticed it too. It does have something to do with an overflow during channel activation.
However it works perfect if you enable (just turn on, it does not matter if then on AC/DC/GND) both channels
or actually disable (turn off) both channels before you enable XY mode.

A small bug only, normally you will anyway enable both channels, setup coupling etc. before you go to XY.

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: A Hellene on July 09, 2011, 12:00:18 am
Squonk,

Thank you for pointing that out. This was yet another copy error in my schematics... I am sorry about that. I will correct the schematics and re-upload them soon.

Actually, tinhead's version is the right one: In the pictures of both the Rigol and the Tekway front-ends it is clear that the buffered JFET output is fed to the inverting input of the VGA (pin 16) via the 33R2 (marking: 51X) resistor. This is the TP2_1/TP2_2 in Rigol and TP103/TP203 in Hantek/Tekway, for the Ch1/Ch2 respectively. The non-inverting input of the VGA is the TP210/TP111 in Rigol and is driven by a complementary emitter-follower stage with some heavy output decoupling electrolytic capacitors.

Regarding the relays, though I have not looked into it I think that they have a polarized coil of 5V/20mA or so.
A brief search for the Rigol's relays (FT B3GA4.5) revealed this (http://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/MICRO/fcai/relays/ftr-b3.pdf), which confirms the polarised coil of 4.5V/30mA.


-George



[EDIT]: Done!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 09, 2011, 08:22:31 am
Hantek relays:

NEC  UD2 - 4.5NU  datasheet (http://www.worldproducts.com/pdfs/uc2ud2.pdf)

I can not see S in typecode between voltage 4.5 and option NU marking.

"Latch type
Nil: Nonlatch type
S: Single coil latch type"


Here you find picture about Hantek HW rev 7 (newest)  front end (http://www.box.net/shared/e24b9paza7m42dgibnbj)


And, also in Rigol

...GA....

"A : Standard type
B : Latching type (1 coil)
"

Btw. I did not understand what is "polarized".

But this I know that there may be monostable, bistable with one or two coils, relays in electronics and even more complex... . As many time they are called "impulse" relays also.

Example HP old digiscopes use 2 coil bistable relays in front end. Power off... and nothing can ghange. Power on and nothing change.

But, what I do not like.... Manufacturer/designer have not read these relays specifications... or simple, he/she do not care.
And why this most bad model in this relay series..  is it price question or "so what" case in design.

I do not like what happends in Hantek input as you start oscilloscope (or off) (not maybe always)

To where and how input is connected after shut off...and in startup time.

This design bug is terrible. I name it bug, maybe some other can accept it but I dont.
What if you have allready high level (example maximum level) voltage connected to input... but of course, develop test lab with peoples who really have not enough experience  how good lab machines need work...  who can teach them? Customers?

Look these schematics, look these agen...and look agen and same time think. Always designer can think... no need care... or: so what.

Voltage and current what come out from CH1, CH2 sometimes in shut off time or startup time... what hell  they are thinking.
But what is source...  (yes this current is not high, voltage is not high but enough to affect sensitive things.

Ok, go to do some (imagined) industrial service work with this. So, that you example try find some problems in situation where all systems are running with full speed... then you keep your scope connected and watching... and there come lunch time... you shut off your scope... (or come back and shut on)  one PID loop swings from one end to one end... after ten seconds whole system is short time heavy disturbed, alarm rings and paper breaks... oh...thank you Hantek... it was only some tens of kilo euro. (imagined worst case scenario ;) )

(this is one reason why Agilent (oh maybe I'm wrong and need say, old Hewlett-Packard)  or Tektronix professional series instrumets (not hobby series) are very cheap in use.)

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 09, 2011, 10:54:41 am
If I design some day oscilloscope front end (I do not want - If need I copy Tek or old golden years HP) I do not recommend this kind of cheap toy relays at all. They belongs to cheap entertainment equipments. But not to serious _good_ oscilloscope.

Max. switching voltage 250 VAC / 220VDC ! But my scope front reads 300V CAT II  "so what"
Min. switching load * 0.01mA, 10mVDC !    who knows, who care ... and "so what" as long as boss pay my salary...

Of course with this price class oscilloscope it can live with these.

I mean if need something good. If need design _good_ oscilloscope front end put these Rigol-Hantek style front ends to garbage and never tough them. But agen...in this price class they are ok and "not so bad". It is totally different case if go to scopes where price are ten times.

Poor flatness and extremely poor filtering is also problem for these both, Rigol and Hantek, front ends.

Yes with sinewaves no big problem but if need really measure some pulses shape or other littlebit more difficult things... this can not use. Becouse  do not know if you measure your scope or DUT.
But agen, in this price class, with this can live.

This do not mean that I tell Hantek is bad scope. NO, it is very very nice scope in its price class.
But I mean, if want do better (example some open project development)... do not look these front ends at all, only for learning what all mistakes need avoid.

Simply nice test for this design bug...

Connect 2 Hantek scopes "parallel" looking same signal.. example 1MHz sinewave and example both 2mV/div DC. Konnect signal simply by 50 ohm cable with simple T to both scopes CH1
Adjust signal so that both scopes looks same and signal is vertically center.

Shut off a oscilloscope. Look b display. Then agen start this a scope.
Look still this b screen.  maybe it do not this all times but mostly. Why this b display signal swing vertically.

Write User manual agen.

Do not keep any signal connected to scope when you on or off oscilloscope power.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 09, 2011, 11:20:50 am
I noticed in this picture these 3 strange new unpopulated footprints between the AD8370/LMH6552 and the AD8510... Really looks like a crystal with foot capacitors layout, but I am sure this can't be the case.
hehe, no not for cristal, probably temp sensor, however we should track back these pins.

Still, I don't understand the lack of current limiting resistor for the OptoMos: this device is a Cosmo KAQY214S solid-state relay with MOSFet output, with a max forward voltage of 1.5 V, and max forward current of 5 mA.
oh there is one, such things are like decoupling caps and just skipped in my schematics now

Also, although I may understand the reason why the input capacitor before the JFET and the dual BAV99 diodes is angled at 45 degrees to shorten the trace in this particularly sensitive area, however I don't understand why Tekway also angled all the AD8370/LMH6552 stuff this way? Is this to stress their pick-and-place machine? ;D

no, that's basics of HF design in combination of limited space for input circuit.

Do not keep any signal connected to scope when you on or off oscilloscope power.

right, the input is never ever really off.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 09, 2011, 11:25:43 am
...
Ok, go to do some (imagined) industrial service work with this. So, that you example try find some problems in situation where all systems are running with full speed... then you keep your scope connected and watching... and there come lunch time... you shut off your scope... (or come back and shut on)  one PID loop swings from one end to one end... after ten seconds whole system is short time heavy disturbed, alarm rings and paper breaks... oh...thank you Hantek... it was only some tens of kilo euro. (imagined worst case scenario ;) )

(this is one reason why Agilent (oh maybe I'm wrong and need say, old Hewlett-Packard)  or Tektronix professional series instrumets (not hobby series) are very cheap in use.)[/size]
In a good design, I would recommend:
  • to put a 2kV spark gap at the input, with very good path to ground for ESD protection, see Dave's videos if you are not sure what I am talking about :o
  • to provide a normally-open GND coupling relay at the input, which would physically disconnect the device under test when the scope is turned off and during start-up transients, to avoid any harm to it, or don't go out for lunch during tests ;D

1. Scope input capacitance and inductances need keep low. Every extra millimeter trace make it more bad.
2. This is not "start up transient" what I'm talking.  Also cutting signal with some relays in input stage... and specially if you want cut both... GND and signal... maybe this can collect more problems than goods.

2kV sparc gap in scope input. What it protects? Maybe something but I do not want any pF more to input. I'm happy about any pF what can take off. I think it is more clever to make small add to input BNC so that peoples who do not know what they are doing can also safely use scopes. (safety plug in... for low freq signal looking) It needs small box and M and F BNC and then these protection components. ;)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 09, 2011, 11:35:39 am

right, the input is never ever really off.

But, where it is sometimes connected in (only) boot up time and sometimes (power drop) off time shortly?
(I have not yet inspect what there happend exactly...  next time I have time and front end open, I want look carefully what is going on with there relays in boot time and specially if there is any posibilty that CAL realay do something... if CAL relay do connect... momentarily,...  then it is good to install switch  to front panel... (Cal/no cal ... haha)

(this all start as I test parallel lot of these scopes...  and also one other test procedure... there was one component damage and I'm still not sure if it was natural die or... outside from scope in start up situation come signal.... if this signal what I use was going to wrong road... (to calibration circuits). But this time it is onlu speculation.

But DC swing out from CH input is not very nice... tens of millivolts sometimes (and changing) over boot up time. After boot is just stop. This is not wise.,
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 09, 2011, 11:59:30 am
replace all these cheap relays/optoMOS by more adequate models

well, don't care that much about CAT II specs, 10x probe is standard for me.

replace BAV99 diodes

why? They good enough.

replace the 2 BC846 transistor for current mirror by at least a matched pair (BC846B)
that's already matched pair of BC846B (actually you don't have to much them today anymore)

replace the AD8310/LMH6552/VariCap by the LMH6518 above
for what? Actually you mean AD8370 and not 8310 (or you mean the AD8510 in LF path?)
Anyway, there is no reason to replace them. I can tell you something, Rigol did it in 300MHz CA models
and switched back to AD8370/LMH6552 because this combination works better.
Varicap is actually only part of the story, it 20MHz bw limiter, yes, but it does have only
mariginal influence on HF bw (just calculate back the filter corner freq. given by varicap+caps, out/in imp. and the
resistor networks and you will see it is much higher than necessary. The bw filter is within firmware)

straighten the signal trace as much as possible
hmm, it is stight, then 45° to first opamp then again stright ... the only think i don't like
it are the replays switching ADCs together, but the influence is as far as possible reduced
by self-calibration

keep the signal trace as short as possible and away from other traces
that would be complettly new PCB, much bigger anyway. Hantek/Tekway did it anyway better
(they have at least better shielding) than Rigol/ATTEN where the PSU is so close to ADCs/Trigger
stage/1MSs-500MSs relays that you have already influence.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: alm on July 09, 2011, 01:43:28 pm
I am trying to see what a modern DSO input stage looks like: the most modern schematic I have found so far is from the Tek 2232 (June 1992 !).
There's a more modern service manual for the Tek TDS520 available, I think on tek.com. Not exactly modern, but fairly detailed.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 09, 2011, 02:02:24 pm
Really? Do you have more details on this? Maybe pictures, schematic of it? I am really interested!
well both, but i can't publish as they has been created by someone else who don't wish to publish them,
which i will of course respect. But actually there is not that much difference
(except 50Ohm input switch and resulting gain switch)

This can't be, you have to do anti-aliasing filtering before sampling, not after. Maybe you mean that filtering is controlled by firmware?
no you don't, or not in form of what you interpreted from the schematics. It is hard to say what exactly Rigol/Atten/Instek/UNI-T/Tonghui are doing within the firmware because nobody (yet) reversed it. However it is simple to reverse Hantek/Tekway
as the firmware is on Linux based system, therefore we know some details how this works.
Sure, FPGA/CPLD design are not known, so we can only guess, but already from the application itself we know that
a sharp digital filter is implemented to replcae a typical analog bw filter. As all these DSOs are  (more or less) identical (like Rigol/ATTEN/HanTeway) or the concept identical (UNI-T/Tonghui/Instek vs Rigol/HanTekway) we can assume that
all these non linux based DSOs are doing it exact the same way HanTekway is doing.

For Rigol it has ben already tested before i started to play with it, if you even remove all caps/varicap and even
replace resistors to what HanTekway is having the circuit will not maigally allow 200MHz -3db bw,
even if you solder exact same components are 300MHz CA series is doing it will not works.
So the logical answer was for me "it must be firmware", and after i looked for it i found how at least HanTekway is doing this.

The details are here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg45275#msg45275 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg45275#msg45275)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg45649#msg45649 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg45649#msg45649)
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: alm on July 09, 2011, 02:16:34 pm
Unfortunately, Tek schematics are only block level after the Tek 2232, so is the TDS520 :-\
Really? Have you checked? The document is called 'TDS 520B Mod CM Digitizing Oscilloscope Component Service Manual', and those schematics don't look like block level to me.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 09, 2011, 02:21:17 pm
that would be complettly new PCB, much bigger anyway. Hantek/Tekway did it anyway better
(they have at least better shielding) than Rigol/ATTEN where the PSU is so close to ADCs/Trigger
stage/1MSs-500MSs relays that you have already influence.

btw, the Owon SDS does have totally different design (meaning PCB size, location, direction) so it would be
interessting to shot of a picture what inside. I hope i can get soon SDS8102.

Currently i'm testing Tonghui TDO3000 series, they have beautiful LC meters but actaully nobody knows their DSOs.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: alm on July 09, 2011, 02:51:49 pm
EDIT: Actually, I found the "Component Level Service Manual"on an exotic website
tek.com is exotic?

but not really useful: Tek was already using hybrid modules for the analog front-end, thanks anyway  :-\
That's a modern DSO for you ;). Lots of custom silicon, even more today than back then. This helps decreasing footprint and costs, and increasing performance. Some SMT passives on FR-4 just doesn't cut it for good HF performance.

Only exception is the low-end brands who just can't justify the investment.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 09, 2011, 02:57:36 pm
Before I have tell this "bug" in design related to CH1 and CH2 as scope is booting.

I check it and:

R1CH1 go on just as scope is powered on.  Around +3,5V to coil as long as scope is booting.

So, scope input is directly connected to SELFCAL line (trough 248ohm resistor) as long as it is booting .
(what if I trust input is 1Mohm, but this is not so severe...how about high voltages on the input...)

Is it doing some kind of self test?

But  IMHO this is totally wrong!
Becouse there is no any protection.

Yest they tell that do not connect anything to input if do selfcal. Of course but they do not tell that scope is also connected to unprotected selfcal line as it is booting.

Front end read 300V CAT II.

I think someone need shame now.
How can tell Hantek that this can not do?

Scope may be connected to signal all time, powered or not.
There is no place what warning this.

Example if I have test system made... so that I'm continuously watching some signal with scope. But signal is always on... example some kind of transmitter.

I have made signal cabeling and matching.  Do I need every time take signal cable off if I want power (off) on this scope.
How about if power switch is on but shortly mains breaks.

Yes I understand these chinese boys who design and test these in they lab and only what they randomly think... and test just as they think use of scope. Well, maybe nobody think what all kind of situation scope may be in field.

I have speaked... Ugh
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: alm on July 09, 2011, 04:47:59 pm
I could only find the "Module Level Service Manual" there, I had to search for TDS520 "component level" service manual in order to find it somewhere else.
A search for tds520b on tek.com finds this (http://www2.tek.com/cmswpt/madetails.lotr?ct=MA&cs=msv&ci=9971&lc=EN).

The Tek 2232 was probably one of the latest
As hobbyists, we have no access to either Hybrids or analog ASICs, so both the "old" Tek 2232 and these cheap low-end DSOs are interesting to look at.
Agreed, you learn more from studying the older technology, but it's not how a modern DSO is build. Just like a modern consumer widget often consists of a blob of epoxy on a phenolic PCB.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 09, 2011, 04:50:57 pm
I will still continue this HanTekway problem becouse this thread is for these scopes and specially not develop thread for open project front end.

This CH1 and CH2 bug is not at all so nice.

First as before. Both Channels are connected to Selfcal line trough 248 ohm resistor.
After these resistors both channels are connected together and after this they are connected trough 470ohm ressistor to TLV272IDGK output.
And this is not all. It is also connected to MAX II (cpld) pin 36 trough some small resistor and 220nF capacitor. (no dc but...)

You can test.

Measure resistance between CH1 center to CH2 center. Start up scope. Booting time it is around 500ohm.
Try with 300V fast rise ..  yes... after this you can buy new scope.

Someone ask... why ever some connect scope to signals before it have booted. It is good question.
But if it have done... first channel 1 signal and 2 are connected together as 500 ohm resistor. Nice.. yeah..
How about ~700 ohm to TLV272IDGK output?

If you have connected scope to some sensitive circuit... scope FW crash... do you remember connect probes or other signal wires out before boot...

I want go to qingdao and look this clever EE eyes when I show him what happend with his clever design.  After some smoke... yes put smoke back... it works agen.

Please correct if I am wrong!
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: alm on July 09, 2011, 05:10:39 pm
Popular 10x probes will add 9Mohm of series resistance. Even 1x scope probes add a few hundred ohms of series resistance. This may make the issue less severe. It does sound like bad design to me, though, inputs should either be 1Mohm or open-circuit when the system is booting/off.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 09, 2011, 05:28:12 pm
Well, that's confusing: for a single ADC, you need to meet was is known as the "Nyquist criterion", see Wikipedia ...

But what I am saying is only good when you have a single ADC...

As there are up to 10 of them, they can be clocked so that each one is sampling with a calibrated period that is 1/10 of the sampling period, thus achieving an effective sampling frequency of 1 GHz. Then, by digital reconstruction, you are able to get a 1 GSPS resolution digital signal, that you can THEN filter digitally to whatever you want below that.

And in this case, I really don't know if what I said for a single ADC is still valid, or if aliasing "magically" cancels itself by using several of them working with such a clock scheme, only requiring a max signal frequency of 1 GHz/2=500 MHz...

... don't take Wikipedia seriously ... 20+ yrs HF and later ARM/FPGA is better than pure theory,
but actually "nothing" in compare to ppl who design scopes since years, aynway.

For real time sampling, with no avarage and continuously signals you should apply Nyquist based on total sample rate,
(with avg. on or equ. sampling the sample rate didn't matter but the time of acq., think sampling scopes),
and for single shot mostly the single ADC clock with combination of random skew between
ADCs have more influence on the waveform than Nyquist (so total sample rate reduced by error factor coming
from skew/jitter + additional aliasing from single ADC clock). Finally don't forgett the non linearity of componets,
PCB itself and tons of other factors.

And of course there is aliasing on almost all DSO below 1GHz bw, some are better and have intelligent filter,
some really worse (especially due additional distortion caused by not properly synched ADCs).

For this particular design just take a look on the app notes and datasheets of the components which has been
used for these DSOs, they has been not chosed by price (only) but primary by reason. For up to 300MHz not bad at all,
sure there are some gaps around max bw, but you will have to pay much more to get something better.
The waveform distortion pure visualy is not worse than on TDS3000, and that's already good enough.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 09, 2011, 05:51:08 pm
alm,  Yes, many times scope is used with 10:1 (or sometimes 1:1) probes, but not all time. 

Example I use lot of measurements directly from 50 ohm line or with some special other connection.
Scope have BNC vonnectors for signals, not only for probes. If it can safely use only with 10:1 probes they need be "fixed" probes... ;)

I have use tens of years HP and Tektronix professional scopes, cheaper and more expensive.

I have never see this kind of design bug. Newer in any seriously bade test equipment for real working.

500 ohm directly from CH1 to CH2 center whole boot up time!

Direct unprotected connection ti deep inside scope sensitive electronix from inputs as long as scope is booting.

Do not go any serious real work enviroment for doing any measurements with this before you exactly know what may happend in system under test or what may happend inside scope with these signals what are going inside scope as it boots.

Sometimes scope may loose power accidentally and then power agen or it may do crash and you need boot...

Hantek probe 1x  center - center resistance 250ohm

Ok lets calculate... with probes... there is 1k between channels at boot time. 1V... 1mA. 10V 10mA. 100V, 100mA. Probe is accepted 200Vpk at 1x. Ok lets do it... -200 one probe. +200V other probe. No violations if look specs.

400V _difference_ between CH1 and CH2 center. But still in specs... Scope input. 300V CAT II, Probe 1x 200Vpk.

400mA 400V. Wau. 160W... how many milliseconds is enough...

Of course these are nearly as worst case. But who hell is designer who do not remember "worst case rules for designing"
Now if I do this fully documented...  some persons who can proof what is done and also example video.

How many scope I can destroy so that always Hantek send new ones.

So, I give my recommendation.
Just as in calibration state, DO NOT connect any signals to input this time when you shut off scope or when you start up scope. Of course always you know that powerline can not drop...
(low level signals are not danger to scope trough 1x and specially not at all trough 10x probe...

But remember also what it may affect in your circuit what are under testing. All circuits can not like 1kohm connection between to probe connection points.

I think, Hnatek need immediately solve this design bug. If there need boot time cal connection it need solve different way.


Why here is smoke. After this...
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 09, 2011, 06:42:04 pm
No any kind of real  antialising filter in front end. Front end is wide open for all signals over full freq span. And some peoples want it even more wide, but real advantage is make it more filtered but with better freq response shape.

8 (or 4+4) ADC clocked with FPGA PLL.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ECL on July 09, 2011, 08:00:27 pm

I think, Hnatek need immediately solve this design bug. If there need boot time cal connection it need solve different way.


I have not thought all of this through, so consider this idea "thinking out loud"  :)

Maybe 2/3 of the boot time is the OS coming up.  After that, the DSO app is run.
I have not observed any scope related state changes, prior to DSO running.  This
leads me to believe that the problem is caused by the initial state of the shift register,
controlling the relay.  Hantek should have added a tristate control, and pullup/down resistors
to all of the outputs, so the controls could be set to a knows state, prior to software initialization.
Looking at tinhead's (very handy) schematic, it appears that we may be able to force the
shift register to clear, by adding a RCD circuit to the SRCLR pin.  I have not checked if this would be
okay, for the rest of the signals, this register controls.  Another option would be to add an OE control
flop, tied to the RCLK term, and pullup/down resistors to the output lines.  The first write, to the SR
would enable the register outputs, until the next power cycle.  There is also the extra (open)
relay pole.  We may be able to do something with that, as well.

ECL  -K

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: ECL on July 09, 2011, 08:10:38 pm

Just curious if anyone else is experiencing this behavior?  If I power-on my
Hantek, with a USB stick installed (front port), the stick is not recognized by the
DSO application.  The OS, however, does see the stick, and auto-mounts it.
I need to unplug the stick, and re-insert, before the scope will flag it's presence.
It appears, at least on my unit, that the DSO app needs to see an insertion event,
before it detects the presence of a memory stick.

Does anyone else see this behavior?

Thanks,

ECL  -K

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 09, 2011, 09:02:15 pm
500 ohm directly from CH1 to CH2 center whole boot up time!

are you sure ? When off, the self-calibration relay is not connected, the attenuator not active, so in principle 1.2M input
(the state of relays on my schematic is off mode)

Maybe 2/3 of the boot time is the OS coming up.  After that, the DSO app is run.
I have not observed any scope related state changes, prior to DSO running.  This
leads me to believe that the problem is caused by the initial state of the shift register,
controlling the relay.  Hantek should have added a tristate control, and pullup/down resistors
to all of the outputs, so the controls could be set to a knows state, prior to software initialization.
Looking at tinhead's (very handy) schematic, it appears that we may be able to force the
shift register to clear, by adding a RCD circuit to the SRCLR pin.

if there is not dedicated "enable" signal within CPLD design then the CPLD is controlling the
HC595 already during boot time, and after OS has been loaded switching to the last saved status.

This means if there is an issue then the dso.exe itself should (after the last state has been loaded) enable the HC595,
which is bad idea because we need then (or actually output) to be active to activate last state!
Even a simple solution like RC combination on /OE pin will break the functionality, a i/o controlled (from SoC and dso.exe)
will not work either. The only chance is (if not already done, which we don't know) to control the state of
attenuator/self-calibration control pins by the CPLD itself

However, even without knowledge what inside CPLD we can test it by not allowing the dso.exe and dn.rbf to
be loaded (just comment out these lines in /etc/init.d/rcS). I can't do it during next days, my both DSOs are now
disassembled (testing still a bit "ugly" clock domain hack).
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 09, 2011, 09:09:20 pm
Yes, all what I can now look is HW5 and HW7 with FW, ..225, 420, 427patch, 531.1... all have this problem and afaik problem was also before. Not nice but can live with it. If need lot of USB things all times, it is good to buy short cable.... no need wear scope USB connector. (specially becouse these quality is just as entertainment quality (all USB connectors not only hantek but who care... today electronic need only 1-3year lifetime and tomorrow we go more short "designed" lifetimes.)..

Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: tinhead on July 09, 2011, 09:12:16 pm

Just curious if anyone else is experiencing this behavior?  If I power-on my
Hantek, with a USB stick installed (front port), the stick is not recognized by the
DSO application.  The OS, however, does see the stick, and auto-mounts it.
I need to unplug the stick, and re-insert, before the scope will flag it's presence.

yep, i know it. The funny part is, firmware update menu is even trying to access to stick, but
it fails because stick didn't exists (but the stick led is blinking ...) So it seems the firmware
just don't see a specific flag. Not sure if this is really firmware bug or linux hotplug delay bug,
it takes anyway a bit long to recognize usb devices. Maybe a delay before dso.exe will be loaded can help out.
Title: Re: Hantek - Tekway - DSO hack - get 200MHz bw for free
Post by: rf-loop on July 09, 2011, 09:24:01 pm