Nifty, you would think the other vendors have learned a thing or two after the rigol incident.
I have a sneaking suspicion letting the hack info continue and not be suppressed is actually good for business.
Consider:
If sales of the Rigol 1052E double, it would compensate for each single lost sale of the 1102E
But If the 1102E is really just a factory hacked 1052E, then the manufacturing cost to make either scopes is equal, so they are not losing any sales at all, just making more. The excess inventory of 1102E can always have their case stickers changed and firmware reburned to downgrade them into 1052E. So the only cost to make an 1102E over a 1052E is labor to do the firmware and casing decal changes.
If the owner bricks his scope and asks for factory repair, the unit is not under warranty, and now not only did they make a sale on a scope, they can charge for repair
Rigol now has a bigger reputation, free publicity, more people own it, know its electronics intimately and thus have a better appreciation of its capabilities, and will consider buying their other products now too
So, its a win win.
If you look at the trends in electronics, there is a market of makers and hackers so manufacturers are addressing their wants. Hakko's new iron, the FX888, Agilent's DMM skins, Hakko 936 skins etc., certainly isn't directed towards professional electronics.Nifty, you would think the other vendors have learned a thing or two after the rigol incident.
cant find it in ebay, just the 200MHz version. maybe they are pulling all 100MHz back to upgrade to 2.04.SP1 FW? ??? just speculation, not related to anyone who is still live or dead.
Nifty, you would think the other vendors have learned a thing or two after the rigol incident.
maybe they are pulling all 100MHz back to upgrade to 2.04.SP1 FW? ???
Hi tinman,
Can you post some more pictures please?
Looks like I'll be picking one of these up in China next month ;o)
Thanks.
Any idea if Tekway makes Hantek's handheld oscilloscopes too?
Do you know if the Hantek DSO-1060 could be modified to be
a DSO-1200? This would change a 60Mhz scope into a 200Mhz scope.
Great information, I bet there's going to be tons of discussion
about this topic!
Scott
whats with the blank capacitor? top left near the samsung? 4th picture
I wonder if you can redirect the terminal session to the 7" LCD and use a USB keyboard (that would make an awesome hackable scope)
I did find this one for sale, but it is already at 200Mhz.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270568563296&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270568563296&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)
Tinman, have you tried this hack on the DST1062B?
Do you know if the DST1062B has the same components as the DST1102B?
Thanks.
that's the self-calibration unit, it runs with 125Mhz.Do you mean that it has a 125Meg oscillator on board which is used for the sole purpose of selfcalibration???
Yes tinhead, there is now a 200Mhz DSO5102B! I will let the scope warm up for an hour or so, and then re-adjust the scope probes. Should I do a recallibration as well?
Many thanks again for the massive effort yesterday, I got quite a surprise when I switched on the PC...to find a working firmware update! ;D
Are the Tekway/Hantek firmwares directly interchangeable, what I mean is, if say Tekway brought out an update, could it be applied to a Hantek without having to be modified?
another one screenshot ...
My previous bw measure was done with 1ns rise time generator, which is normally not sufficient (due cable, terminator loss).
So here we are, i did build the 250ps generator (well, at least on my 500MHz scope it shows 550ps rise time)
and made some measurments on the Tekway/Hantek DSO. The result is 1.3ns which is equal to 270MHz -3db bw.
So here we are, i did build the 250ps generator (well, at least on my 500MHz scope it shows 550ps rise time)Did you verify the amplitude with your 500MHz scope? Rise time is measured from 10% to 90% of the signal amplitude, so if the scope shows a lower amplitude due to the attenuation of the high-frequency component, the apparent rise time will be higher. A step is much easier to use than a pulse for this reason.
and made some measurments on the Tekway/Hantek DSO. The result is 1.3ns which is equal to 270MHz -3db bw.
NICE, tinman, what did you use generate 250ps?
NICE, tinman, what did you use generate 250ps?
the Linear Technology, App Note 47.
I didn't had LT1073 but 1073-5 so changed some Rs values in 90V power supply part, but the rest is the same.
Did you verify the amplitude with your 500MHz scope? Rise time is measured from 10% to 90% of the signal amplitude, so if the scope shows a lower amplitude due to the attenuation of the high-frequency component, the apparent rise time will be higher. A step is much easier to use than a pulse for this reason.
well actually this is like apple and birnes, a scope with higher BW will show evt. higher amplitude. On the other side 10%/90% areJust to elaborate why I think amplitude matters:
from measured signal amplitude and not the real amplitude.
It should be fine for relative tests, but I wouldn't rely on the actual numbers.
The SDK kit (for both Hantek and Tekway) is scheduled to be released end of Jauary 2011,
the firmware source code (which is under GPL and have to be published) will be not published,
this seems to be GPL licensing misunderstanding so i will try to explain again both companies what's about.
The SDK kit (for both Hantek and Tekway) is scheduled to be released end of Jauary 2011,
the firmware source code (which is under GPL and have to be published) will be not published,
this seems to be GPL licensing misunderstanding so i will try to explain again both companies what's about.
Send an email off to this group (http://gpl-violations.org/about.html). They'll do the chasing up about GPL compliance.
Do they link their proprietary executables statically and/or with GPL (not LGPL) libraries? If yes, they have to publish sources or at least linkable object files of these executables as well.
and again.. sorry if i miss something... where can get this hackable DSO model? still didnt show up in my ebay :( ...can the hack update... be updated in the 1st post for ease of referencing? (just a suggestion) as i said.. i may have missed something due to lack of supply. :-\I bought mine from GoodLuckBuy.com (Hantek DSO5102B)
Is the Tekway Chinese?
.o:0|O|0:o.
This thread caught my eye. Do you care to do a review on the Hantek scope? In particular, can this scope be controlled via the USB port?
One thing that I like about the Instek is that it has a documented programming interface, and you can interface
it to your own software (such as NI Labview, or Python/VISA). Does the Tekway have a similar interface?
How does the triggering, display, etc. compare? How is the brightness/crispness/viewing angle?
Also, anyone had experience ordering from Goodluckbuy.com to the US? How long did it take?
Also, anyone had experience ordering from Goodluckbuy.com to the US? How long did it take?
Many thanks!
Dave
Hi everyone!
Also, anyone had experience ordering from Goodluckbuy.com to the US? How long did it take?
Many thanks!
Dave
Same question - different destination ;)
Anyone had experience ordering from Goodluckbuy.com to Germany? How long did it take?
Tinhead, can you shed some light on how you managed to extract the gpg key ? Might be of interest to other projects as well.
Great! Have you by any chance tried out the USB port on the back? With the drivers installed, does it look like a serial port? Does it implement an SCPI command subset?
Also, a question about the responsiveness.
Currently there is funny firmware bug (fw 2.06.2), with some specific combination of run&stop/single/time base change/memory length
the DSO is showing wrong data. This means don't use single shot with long memory (everything over 40k) in higher time base than 200µs.
Run/Stop is displaying proper data, single shot too as long you don't change time base. I did send a error log/description to Hantek/Tekway today.
Well, I needed a scope this week, so although I had been leaning toward the instek before finding this thread, I decided to go with the Hantek unit, in part due to the higher bandwidth, and bigger screen at a cheaper price. I'll post my thoughts in the review section once I've had time to play with it.
I ordered mine from Emtesco/Morton Controls in Colorado. They appear to be the US official distributor for these Hantek scopes, and also stock some other interesting cheap scopes: https://www.mortoncontrols.com/index.php?main_page=index (https://www.mortoncontrols.com/index.php?main_page=index). BTW, it sounds as if they will be offering some Black Friday deals on these units.
Pray tell, what is your final price like, after S&H, and taxes?
what type of scope would you choose/recommend for someone like me, who is just about to buy a new scope ith limited budget
My understanding aber reading the entire thread is that the tekway offers the better screen and resolution, but the innards seem to be all the same?
To: tinhead.
What can you say about Oscilloscopes OWON PDS8102T/PDS8202T?
Can I change the first model in the second (100 MHz to 200 MHz)?
I choose the oscilloscope, and looking at your messages.
Thank you!
Igor, Russia.
Just received my 100 MHz Hantek. I'm thinking about replacing dso.exe with something that would be more extensible, i.e. with wavelet support in addition to FFT etc. Are there such projects already?
Upd: I made another firmware extract utility. It does exactly the same but does not modify any files on oscilloscope at all. Everyting is done inside the update script on tmpfs. See attached file.
To start with, I'll have a go at backing up the firmware (in NAND flash) once I get the unit.
One question, does the USB firmware dump utility backup the vivi bootloader as well?
I am not sure if Nanddump utility could access that partition at all.
Also any idea where in NAND flash the factory settings are stored or what these settings are for?
@ Tinhead
Thanks for the extra .bin files. I received my Hantek today, and did a firmware dump.
It is reassuring that the total of the .bin file sizes (including the ones you posted) works out to be the same as the Nand Flash memory size.
Is there a schematic of Hantek input stage, maybe reverse engineered?
Is there a schematic of Hantek input stage, maybe reverse engineered?
It's 2.06.2 (101028.0)
I think this is the last one.
I didn't made any update, so this is the pre-loaded (original) version.
Before I make any changes I will find out if this scope could make me happy at last :)
Santa was here :)
What do you think the odds are we can get LA software running on these things?
Do you know how the input from the probes is passed to dso.exe? (fancy memory access, "Everything is a File" /dev instance, ...?)
Santa was here :)all those santas... do you intend to sell it here? interesting.
Santa was here :)all those santas... do you intend to sell it here? interesting.
- ARM I/O port (which have 16bit data, 4 address, nOE, nWE, nWAIT, GPIO select 3, nBE1, ext int9, reset signals and 3.3V/GND)
- ARM I/O port (which have 16bit data, 4 address, nOE, nWE, nWAIT, GPIO select 3, nBE1, ext int9, reset signals and 3.3V/GND)
Hello tinman,
have you been able to find out the exact io port assignment?
I've already tried to find out myself and I found similar signals. But there are still ambiguities with some pins.
I'm afraid it's nearly impossible to clarify them without unsoldering the cpu.
Thanks a lot
I'm afraid it's nearly impossible to clarify them without unsoldering the cpu.
I'm afraid it's nearly impossible to clarify them without unsoldering the cpu.
btw, i did it, so now we know all used/unused pins.
Unfortunately i have still to work from time to time, so reversing is going slow...
A bit offtopic, but regarding the ARM processor:
Where do You buy them? There is a project with S3C2440 uC and farnell/digikey/etc has no such processors on stock.
Hello Guys,
We are Hantek 'a agent in France and we can deliver many DSO5102B as our stock is large enough.
Please visit our website: http://elec3i.com (http://elec3i.com)
Hope to deal with you soon. ;)
Best regards,
Pascal
Hello Guys,
We are Hantek 'a agent in France and we can deliver many DSO5102B as our stock is large enough.
Please visit our website: http://elec3i.com (http://elec3i.com)
Hope to deal with you soon. ;)
Best regards,
Pascal
Are there possible discounts for students? I've managed to get a discount @ German Pinsonne electronics to the same price(shipping included) as Yours for DSO5062B. If it is possible to have a discount @ Your company, I will cancel my order there and buy Yours :)
cuo le mei you ? dui bu qi.... :oyou can translate some of chinese ee sites for us.
Hao ba ! :-\
I think we can argue and we don try to cheat people anyway. ;D
Well, if VAT is not mentioned in the invoice or it is marked as added already, then who cares in Europe? :)
Well, if VAT is not mentioned in the invoice or it is marked as added already, then who cares in Europe? :)DSO5102B price on elec3i.com is 589EUR, -30EUR for eevblog users is a good total price.
I would say cancel your pins**** order and buy the 100MHz from elec3i.com.
...
Or buy the DSO5062B and extra 200MHz probes ...
1. Using cursors with 2 channels with different volts/div. Triggering is off channel 2. Voltage cursors are on channel 1 - but the scope displays cursor readings using volts/div for channel 1. I am definitely selecting cursors to be sourced by channel 1.i think you mean "but the scope is displaying cursor reading using volt/div from ch2 (and not ch1)
2. Observe a signal on channel 1 and setup triggering using a suitable level and timebase. While observing the waveform press "SINGLE SEQ". The waveform is captured. Change the timebase to another setting. Press "SINGLE SEQ" again. The waveform is captured but at the OLD timebase setting, even though the scope is displaying the NEW timebase on the screen. The workaround is to change the timebase only while the scope is in the RUN mode i.e. the "RUN STOP" button is green.
Apologies if this has been answered already. Can the Hantek DSO5102B standard software be upgraded with Tekway DSO1102B files. Also can either Hantek or Tekway TTscope software be used with my scope?
This is just my experience and it could be different for other people:
I bought my DSO5102B from the chinese website Goodluckbuy for ~492 EUR and they shipped via DHL express for free. It arrived here in the UK within 7 days and it was in prefectly new condition (the box had seen better days though).
I let people think about risks carefully...
Hmm, I have run into a stumbling block. I have tried to update my 'scope (a Hantek DS5102B) with the files provided in do_Hantek_DSO5202B.zip, and I get:
Software upgrade failed, error 0xf7
Illegal upgrade files detected!
Haven't got a JTAG programmer handy, so I'm hoping the USB upgrade method will work.
Dear Scrts,
Of course not, no service for people who buy outside our shop, because warranty is relative to a device serial number. Another thing too, we cannot garantee devices which were illegaly upgraded (hacked) and I don't know any which will accept this... ;)
Oh by the way, I paid 2000 Yuan for it, that's about 235 euro ;D
Unfortunately, many Chinese websites do not have the English version.
It is very difficult to make an order on such site. Often they do not accept international payments because work with the Yuan only.
Chinese vendor's limited access to international payment systems (credit card, Paypal *spit*) is.This is what I meant.
But they of course take a fee, and I would be very careful when selecting one, so not to end up with a conman. In the end it might not be worth using an agent.This problem actually exists.
Since mine DSO5102B has a new firmware, I have to use UART or JTAG. Is it really UART there is 5V levels? I have my own board with FT232 and 3.3V levels.
Also maybe it is possible to get step-by-step manual how to flash firmware using JTAG? I have Segger J-Link :)
I see that the scope top surface above LCD gets warm, since there is no cooler. Is it normal?
2. Observe a signal on channel 1 and setup triggering using a suitable level and timebase. While observing the waveform press "SINGLE SEQ". The waveform is captured. Change the timebase to another setting. Press "SINGLE SEQ" again. The waveform is captured but at the OLD timebase setting, even though the scope is displaying the NEW timebase on the screen. The workaround is to change the timebase only while the scope is in the RUN mode i.e. the "RUN STOP" button is green.
yes, this is known bug (new since 2.6.x), i did notified Hantek/Tekway about it already.
As a work around you have to select always first "run", change time base, and then use single seq.
Especially if long memory is specified this bug really sucks, but the work around works (so let's hipe next fw will fix it).
The i/o port is LVCMOS of course (3.3V). I know that the ports are 5V tolerant, but i would still
recommend to use "proper" 3.3V levels.
so as you can see they hot but still within specs. You can install a cooler, there is everything prepared on power supply PCB (7805 + some caps).
It is enough to drive a 12V cooler with 8V or even 5V to make the enclosure temperature much lower (with 5V almost no cooler noise)
so as you can see they hot but still within specs. You can install a cooler, there is everything prepared on power supply PCB (7805 + some caps).
It is enough to drive a 12V cooler with 8V or even 5V to make the enclosure temperature much lower (with 5V almost no cooler noise)
BTW, no news about SDK? I've managed to dump all the firmware, so I am safe to start :)
Hi,
on this side I have written down my experience with the Tekway DST1102B. Maybe someone find it useful.
Here is the Side in German (http://www.martin-lauff.de/tekway-dst1102b.html (http://www.martin-lauff.de/tekway-dst1102b.html))
and here in English (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Ftekway-dst1102b.html (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.martin-lauff.de%2Ftekway-dst1102b.html)) by Google translator.
I have the Firmware version 2.06.1 (101008.0). I wonder if there is an update for my DSO. In the Internet I haven’t found any.
So if the updates are pretty frequent, what about hacked devices updates? Once hacked to the better BW scope, the official firmware will detect the hack or not? I wonder if the firmware update tool check the current version of the software or it checks the hardware. There is possibility, that one day, the hacked scope could be updated (or actually downgraded) only using JTAG.
The ch2 position knob protrudes about 2mm more than the ch1 knob, it was glued (or is stuck) to far out on its shaft.
On my unit the measure and cursor buttons have to be pressed about twice as hard as all the other ones.
The ch2 position knob protrudes about 2mm more than the ch1 knob, it was glued (or is stuck) to far out on its shaft.
The TTScope software shows the not very informative message "5" upon clicking the connect button in Vista (in VMWare Fusion, will try on native windows).
Btw, That TTScope software is slow as hell... Pointless except of using for steady signal screenshots... Like on every scope :) I wonder if the scope has LAN expand module, what software does it support?
The TTScope software shows the not very informative message "5" upon clicking the connect button in Vista (in VMWare Fusion, will try on native windows).
On my unit the measure and cursor buttons have to be pressed about twice as hard as all the other ones.
disassemble the unit, maybe there is a piece of whatever inbetween.
The ch2 position knob protrudes about 2mm more than the ch1 knob, it was glued (or is stuck) to far out on its shaft.
they normally not glued, you can remove them easily.
I discoverd your TTscope hang with the DSO.
I read it in the Eevblog. I wanted to post the answer but i cannot access the
blog most of the time because of DNS propagation again, I suppose.
So here is the issue: Hantek used to deliver bad TTscope and I found that the
TTscope from DSO5202B CDRom works well with DSO5102B. I reported the issue to
Hantek who will correct it with new shipments.
You will receive a link from NextSend server to download new TTscope version.
Follow the instructions and read our bugs report.
Thank you.
Kind regards,
Pascal Geyre
Elec3i
I have chosen to void the warranty... Whatever :) I could reupload the previous firmware and send it back to hantek if something happens, but seems like all of the parts inside (FPGA/uC/ADC/etc) are orderable and still in production, so it is possible to change them myself.
hehe, just joking guys. I did ordered some PCBs and was about to announce the production,
but if Elec3i will sell them too (as manufacturer supported version) i will throw my PCBs into trash.
@Zinahe
if you ever heard about "chinese piece of crap", then it was one of such famous things like the UNI-T CEL.
This is one of these management decision devices, not a new design, just a new display, cheap interpolation (actually not interpolation, 4 pixels will be displayed as one) on a cheap 480x234 display. So what is the resolution ? Exact 240 x 120 ...
So no, don't compare it and no there is nothing "similar" (just think about 7' BMW and VW Golf .. both are cars - you can drive both but you should not compare). For sure some ppl will buy UNI-T, but to be very honest Rigol is cheaper (and with some luck you hack it)
is having 320x240 resolution and light years better than the UNI-T.
About a hcak possibility : UNI-T is like Rigol FPGA + DSP based - the most critical thing is to hack the DSP firmware. Just check the Rigol thread and you will see it can be possible but only if the manufacturer was too lazy ... If you have a chance to get both 100 and i don't know 60MHz? you can try to compare firmwares .. but that's a lot of work, time and it costs some money.
... since I sell and support all the Mini2440/Mini6410 products.Maybe You have Your eshop? I am interested in mini2440/6410 boards
before i change my mine, how many of you guys would buy such LAN-addon board right now?Hm, what about WLAN modules? :) I would be interested in those :)
before i change my mine, how many of you guys would buy such LAN-addon board right now?Hm, what about WLAN modules? :) I would be interested in those :)
... since I sell and support all the Mini2440/Mini6410 products.Maybe You have Your eshop? I am interested in mini2440/6410 boardsbefore i change my mine, how many of you guys would buy such LAN-addon board right now?Hm, what about WLAN modules? :) I would be interested in those :)
before i change my mine, how many of you guys would buy such LAN-addon board right now?Hm, what about WLAN modules? :) I would be interested in those :)
all china DSO have one common thing - the enclosure mechanical construction. Just remove top screws (behind the hangripp so you have to remove it forst), remove bottom screws.
Regards Linux 2.6.13 and DM9000, no there are no issues with drivers.
Can you generate a lissajou pattern with frequencies >= 100kHz? If you can, what's the limit before the scope starts to choke?
Can you generate a lissajou pattern with frequencies >= 100kHz? If you can, what's the limit before the scope starts to choke?
no issue up to end of bandwidth, even 190/380MHz has been displayed properly. Starting from 1MHz down to 150Hz there are some small gaps (like on analog scope), but they can be easily "disabled" by the wave persistency setting (e.g. 0.2 sec persistency is fast enough for human eye to produce complette waveform but still fast enough to not produce visual latency). Then from 150 to 20Hz the signal is dropping producing more noice than "waveform".
The persistence function in the Rigol 1052E works so long as the phase is matched and doesn't drift, otherwise it slowly paints the entire view area a nice solid color!
The persistence function in the Rigol 1052E works so long as the phase is matched and doesn't drift, otherwise it slowly paints the entire view area a nice solid color!
luckily the HanTekway DSO have 0.2sec, i believe the lowest persistance on Rigol is 1sec, that's just too much.
Additionally you can change screen refresh rate on HanTekway between auto, 30, 40 and 50 frames.
I did my tests with 50frames/sec (i just love when the screen is updating very fast), but recognized later that
for phase unsync slow XY signals is better to set auto or 30frames/sec to get even better picture than with persistency on 0.2sec.
So you can see there are some features helping a bit out. Someone mentioned already that the noice level in XY mode is very high
on HanTekway DSOs. But to be very honest it seems to be the same "issue" on Rigol (or at least from what i saw on screenshots).
Can I add another Russian? I'm willing to translate all menus and built-in help.
How do I upgrade to DST1202B?
Looks to me that Tekway DST1102B and Hantek DSO5102B is the same scope
... but the Hantek is bit cheaper. Should I expect better quality with Tekway?
Looks to me that Tekway DST1102B and Hantek DSO5102B is the same scope, but the Hantek is bit cheaper. Should I expect better quality with Tekway?
Hantek/Tekway buyers, do not forget Elec3i for your purchase ;D
i got nice answer from Hantek/Tekway, they will not release the SDK yet (company policy - the firmware have too many bugs
and they wish first to fix them before SDK will be released, this is good idea).
The only bad thing is - they will not release the source code.
For above someone asked could not find USB driver for windows 7. You can just install TTscope on CD come with your machine first, and plug DSO in and manual install driver from TTscope installation directory under x:\program file\TTscope\drivers or similar, accept install driver anyway, it'll work. But when u trying to connect it with TTscope, it'll report sort of error and won't work anyhow.
Before I open it up, I had a feeling that this one is 200Mhz ready, as the SN lable on the back of machine is T 1G/200M 00xxxx, but firmware show T 1G/100M 00xxxx. Yep after I open it up it is 200Mhz ready--44A(280) and 330 risistors on board.
Btw I think the front shell and knobs color should be gray instead irovy, as time and heat will let irovy turns to yellowish.
just don't use the TTScope from CD, the one on Hantek website is bit better, especially drivers.
So after spending a lot of time debating buying Atten, then finding and reading this entire thread (thank you to all of you who have contributed) I no longer am interested in Atten and want to get one of these instead. The questions I have are is there a preference (quality, potential future support, ect) between Hantek and Tekway? Also is the 100MHz version worth $140USD more than the 60 or has anyone here successfully upgraded a 60 to say a 100 or even 200 (money is tight so if its not necessary I don't want to spend it)?
Sorry for all the questions and I appreciate any responses.
Thanks,
-Ian
This was the question that I had before I got my. Believe Tinhead. Hantek and tekway are identical, all their boards made by tekway, diff maybe just on firmware/logo and frontpanel cosmatic look.
Yes, you can mod 60 to 100 or to 200,or 100 to 200. someone already confirm it.the whole thread is about the mod, and yes this works.
All you need is change some risistors and hack the software. but Three things remind you.
1.Those are SMD resistors, you'll need proper tool and skill to change them (hot gun or smd tweezer iron), and resistors cost money. Mine's lucky, come with 200 ready.
2. For hantek5102B 2.6.2(101108.0), you'll need JTAG way to hack it, or modify USB files to cheat DSO. I don't know tekway.
3. I heard probes come 60Mhz is 80Mhz. You may ask these to confirm. My 100Mhz come with 150Mhz. Good probes cost quite a bit in NA, 1/10 price in China.
tinhead, do you have the input schematic for this scope? I am trying to learn a bit more about oscilloscope inputs and filters. I lost the original PDF, then you took it down. Would appreciate it, thanks!
yeah i do have, currently a bit busy with other things but soon i will publish it, together with Ethernet-addon schematic.
why do you give the option of 100MHz, 150, and 200? why not just 200? why should any one want to be at 100/150 when they can have 200Mhz??
so i just got mine DSO5062B and i tried to updated it to the 200Mhz.. So i went here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg24564#msg24564 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1571.msg24564#msg24564)
downloaded do_hantek_DSO5202B.zip extracted it to a flash drive and when i hit update firmware i get an error saying:
Software upgrade failed, error 0xf7 Ilegal upgrade files detected!
System status shows:
model: DSO5062B
soft version: 2.06.2 (101108.0)
hard version: 0x555583e8
so i just got mine DSO5062B and i tried to updated it to the 200Mhz.. Software upgrade failed, error 0xf7 Ilegal upgrade files detected!
System status shows:
model: DSO5062B
soft version: 2.06.2 (101108.0)
hard version: 0x555583e8
Guess more people ask, Tinhead may release new version USB files.
New Firmware dump utility
Hantek/Tekway did added some protection into firmware update procedure, therefore the fw dump
utility need to be changed too.
Tinhead, you write: "must be same as your DSO model!"
I have a DST1102B but the DSO installed DST1202B. Which model do I specify, and do I need to update your software?
I installed your program without saving the original.
I think they're watching this thread ;)New Firmware dump utility
Hantek/Tekway did added some protection into firmware update procedure, therefore the fw dump
utility need to be changed too.
I think they're watching this thread ;)
- i promised Han/Tekway to not create any new USB hacks
- i wish Han/Tekway will spend time on fixing firmware bigs and the SDK - and not on new protections only because i created another one USB hack for "lazy" ppl
Q. Does that mean the rest of us can't/shouldn't talk about the USB hacks?
But I just wanted to know what your policy was on others posting what could be considered...let's say "sensitive"...information regarding these DSOs. And when I saw your post saying that you promised not to post any more USB hacks, I thought it would be a good idea for me to ask first.
So tinhead, would it be okay with you if I were to start a new thread discussing in detail these DSO's internal workings (with some info regarding USB modding) and modding in general?
if you download the fw_backupV3.zip you will see what is always needed to allow an update, in principle it is only the logotype.dis which need to be present in firmware file and the content must match the content of logotype.dis in DSO root directory.
The CR+LF issue is just because the firmware update procedure does string compare.
If you decompile dso.exe you will see the "magic" arround ubdb.swi, logotype.dis, ucUpdateType, ucSysType, ucSysBrand and ucUpdateBrand - just look for UpdateSysFiles procedure.
Q. What's the file format for the .ico files? (e.g. hantek_DSO5202B_mid.ico) Anyone know? It looks like a .png or RGB format to me.
Does anyone know where a Hantek or Tekway DST1202 or DST1102 can be purchased for a reasonable price.What do you consider a "reasonable price"?
Hi all,
I was about to purchase a Tekway DST1202 from a trader in China. But when the trader asked the manufacturer about supplying a Australian 240V power plug, he was told that they now don't supply Chinese traders with English menu oscilloscopes, they would only supply him oscilloscopes with Chinese menu. He was told this was to protect their overseas agents. He indicated that Hantek also wouldn't supply oscilloscopes with English menu.
I wonder if China have a Trade Practice Act (law), isn't that restricting free trade.
A search on Ebay didn't find any Tekways.
Does anyone know where a Hantek or Tekway DST1202 or DST1102 can be purchased for a reasonable price.
Thanks for your help.
I check the power board, The reserve fan connector has a dedicated 12v power supply(7812). But I would like the fan run less speed, I connect the fun to 5v on board, not even can hear fan noise.
replace the 7812 by 7805, it is oly dedicated for fan, so no big deal - and of course less stress for the 5V on main PCB.
Question, will the hack also fix the language problem if there is a command to change the language?See my questions on Tekway DST1102 in the Chinese version of Tinhead, and answers, starting with # 212 in this forum thread.
Thanks rf-loop and all for your help.
Mr Pioneer Huang was one of the Chinese traders who said that he only had Telway oscilloscopes with Chinese Menu (display). Another Chinese trader said that both Tekway and Hantek would now only supply him with Chinese Menu oscilloscopes. And that the reason was to protect their overseas agents. It was only when he talked to the manufacturers that he found this out.
[cmd] cp -f /usr/up/tekwayup_client/l /logotype.dis
[cmd] chmod 766 /logotype.dis
And you're good to go.Okay, well, back to modding my DSO5102B via the USB Update Firmare...
Finally got it to work! Turns out the only hitch was that if you include a file named logotype.dis in the .up file, it will be checked for the correct "hantek_DSOxxxxx" label inside. But if you simply rename it to something else (I just renamed it l), it won't be checked. And like I've mentioned before, you only need the update file listed in the upend file. You can include other files without listing them in the upend file since it's all untarred en-masse. Then in the update file, you just need to do something like this:
it is stored in eeprom connected to s3c2440, it is easy to change it.
But another thing bug me know, while checking my boot log, looks my NAND has a bad block. Can you please confirm with me?
...
Even looks doesn't make any trouble with the DSO, I think I need make a JTAG for full backup really soon.
Backup is always good idea, as long you have no ARM JTAG just use the fwdump v3, it will save
bootloader, root and kernel - that's all you evt. need later.
Update: yes it'll works, H-jatag has driver too.
you will need OOB H-JTAG driver to save/restore OOB blocks too!
you can find NAND-OOB drivers for H-JTAG here
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/163836 (http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/163836)
The s3c2440 ARM need to be initialized, the right one init is already included in H-JTAG software, just
load in H-Flasher the ..\HFC Examples\S3C2440+K9F1208.hfc
You can disable flash id check too if H-Flasher don't like Hynix with NAND OOB drivers (or change the driver, whcih is simple)
Tekway
USD 580 and free shipping in this store in mainland China: Store http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788 (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788)
(I have also talk in phone with this store man "Mr Pioneer Huang" But I did not buy becouse I find more economy solution (not only one scope))
Scope in this store http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html)
Is there any advantage in using a Hantek DSO5102B over a DSO5062B or a DSO5062C (60MHz) when hacking to a DSO5202B (200MHz). Other than the price.
Tekway
USD 580 and free shipping in this store in mainland China: Store http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788 (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/312788)
(I have also talk in phone with this store man "Mr Pioneer Huang" But I did not buy becouse I find more economy solution (not only one scope))
Scope in this store http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html)
In Ali you can also chat with seller and this seller also answer phone if you want check for security. (you ask his phone if you need)
Also you can buy with safe system (seller get money after you get scope - but you send money first...)
This seller write quite good english.
And also you can select with same price Hantek or Tekway (100MHz)
MOQ = 1pcs
price USD580
Shipping = Free by DHL (and I think also to Australia)
Power cord... normal power plug in scope end ... just as nearly all equipment you can buy compatible power cable in your country.
China normal electric is 50Hz 220 - 230Vac. (only what chance is this cable wall end, scope end is always same)
With same price my own opinion is "buy Tekway" mut this is only my opinion.
Also you can use PayPal
There is also Escrow (littlebit more safety) system between you and seller.
Mr Huang had to keep the package as small as possible so he could make some money from the sale. I don't mind as long as it arrive in working condition,yeah, normally there is another one a bit bigger paper box arround the small one, but you ruight as long i did arrived healthy who cares.
See what I mean? English buttons plus Chinese panel. Maybe someone here with an English panel could scan and upload so that we could print it out? Or even better, learn Chinese, I don't think it's that hard you only need to memorize the top 9 or so buttons the rest are in common positions.
Hantek DSO5062C
Okay now I need to go figure out how to change the chinese menu/firmware to English. Or take up Chinese electronics class :P
Okay now I need to go figure out how to change the chinese menu/firmware to English. Or take up Chinese electronics class :P
tell me the firmware version, click on red marked button and then F1
I think the firmware version is the second line ??? 2.05.0(100305.0)
but I am not ready to alter the Mhz of my scope yet because I am still 'evaluating' the unit.
to add parallel resistors instead of replacing resistors to get the 200MHz resistor values. Problem is where can you purchase these resistor values in 0.1% and 1%?
Do you know what physical size the SMD resistors are.mouser is haveing alle of them,
what equipment do you need to calibrate the oscilloscope when the above resistors have been changed. What is the procedure. Would the normal oscilloscope push button calibration do the job? I don't know much about what the calibration is other than you only have the power cable connected to calibrate.
Just arrived:
but all this need now lot of work for tests.
Attached the official 2.6.3 for Tekway DST1102B, so you can update your scope to latest vfw version and add english language.
true, you always very sceptic so you will definitely test 5x :)
Q1. Can I load v2.06.3 onto my Hantek 5102B?no, you can't.
Q2. What's the improvements in v2.06.3 from v2.06.2? (i.e. Is it worth upgrading?)
5x is not enough.
If test full specs temp range, humidity range, pressure range it need more... and also repeating so that can make some opinion about random variations... haha. (yes I do not...)
hi ,tinhead'
would you make a firmware for tekway1062B(version 2.06) to hack it to 200MHz?
hi Mirgo,
Ni shi zhong guo ren ba ? ;D ( ::) Are you chinese ? ;))
I scanned the Chinese panel and replaced the characters with English.
I haven't tried it on for size yet, but it looks close!
-P
Trigger stage
100MHz - 466.5R !!!
Sorry, I measured again it's 100R. All good!
Btw, Tekway is as always clean soldered, i wish Hantek will learn to soldr too ... almost every Hantek was not that clean.
I scanned the Chinese panel and replaced the characters with English.
I scanned the Chinese panel and replaced the characters with English.
Tekway/Hantek doing YouScope demo ...Are you a magician?
Tekway/Hantek doing YouScope demo ...Are you a magician?
I want this demo too! ;D
what equipment do you need to calibrate the oscilloscope when the above resistors have been changed. What is the procedure. Would the normal oscilloscope push button calibration do the job? I don't know much about what the calibration is other than you only have the power cable connected to calibrate.
Question: For compensation you refer to 3 components. Do you have to change all 3 components or you only have to adjust the trim capacitor?
I have finally ordered a Tekway DST1102B 100MHz oscilloscope from Pioneer.
http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html#tabbed-pane (http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/414433064-DHL-Free-Shipping-Tekway-DST1102B-Oscilloscope-2channels-100MHz-1GSa-s-7-TFT-16-digit-color-800-wholesalers.html#tabbed-pane)
I will let you all know how this purchase go, I don't anticipate any problems as Pioneer has at this time a 100% positive feedback, refer to the above link :).
My God, I had visited this Aliexpress website :o . You can see how no care is made for packaging and handle electronics accessories like probes.
If people only concentrate the price, well why not proposing everything like a kit with components, case, bill of materials and serigraphy masks for each country!
Then people arrange by themselves (soldering, cleaning, testing) and everything is ok. Ok, men, we will give you a 300.00 EUR oscilloscope kit, and wish you good luck ! ;D Just this policy is not ours: we change bad boxes, change power cord with 2.50m (Hantek/tekway is 1.50m, a bit short for convenience), change CD small pocket when this one is damaged. Electronics should be handled with care, not like trash...
If people only concentrate the price, well why not proposing everything like a kit with components, case,
bill of materials and serigraphy masks for each country!
My God, I had visited this Aliexpress website :o . You can see how no care is made for packaging and handle electronics accessories like probes.
If people only concentrate the price, well why not proposing everything like a kit with components, case, bill of materials and serigraphy masks for each country!
Then people arrange by themselves (soldering, cleaning, testing) and everything is ok. Ok, men, we will give you a 300.00 EUR oscilloscope kit, and wish you good luck ! ;D Just this policy is not ours: we change bad boxes, change power cord with 2.50m (Hantek/tekway is 1.50m, a bit short for convenience), change CD small pocket when this one is damaged. Electronics should be handled with care, not like trash...
Hi Pascal,
Question: do you give a three year warranty if we change the resistors and firmware in the oscilloscope?
Hi Pascal,
Question: do you give a three year warranty if we change the resistors and firmware in the oscilloscope?
hehe, RFman, knowing that a custom might play with the DSO internals is one thing, allowing up front is a different thing.
I would never allow it up front, therefore all my customers got a simple question "shall i do it for you?",
if yes i did it and i'm responsible for potential warranty issues, if no then i placed "tags" in NAND, PCB and input channels cover.
But well, the question is not what i think and allow, the question is what Pascal does.
I scanned the Chinese panel and replaced the characters with English.
I haven't tried it on for size yet, but it looks close!
-P
Hi guys,
I heard that recently all the new DST 1062B from the traders have been with upgraded firmware version 2.06.3. The new version has hack-prevention which prevents illegal firmware update as we did for ver 2.06.2.
Although firmware upgrading with hacked fimware image by USB is not allowed anymore, , I guess by JTAG we still can backup the image and then change to hacked version, if CPLD and FPGA design are not changed from v2.06.2 to v2.06.3. Has anyone tried and confirmed this? Also kindly correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks!
The Photoshop file is about 50MB if you want to play with it PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.I want to. ;D
Hi guys,
I heard that recently all the new DST 1062B from the traders have been with upgraded firmware version 2.06.3. The new version has hack-prevention which prevents illegal firmware update as we did for ver 2.06.2.
Although firmware upgrading with hacked fimware image by USB is not allowed anymore, , I guess by JTAG we still can backup the image and then change to hacked version, if CPLD and FPGA design are not changed from v2.06.2 to v2.06.3. Has anyone tried and confirmed this? Also kindly correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks!
if you would spend 10mins to read this thread you will see that:
- yes we know it
- yes it works still over UART
- yes it can work over USB if you read carefully what i wrote
I dont think so, there are 24 pages with 350 answers,
it took me one afternoon to read everything,
result was: I know less than before!
Hi Tinhead,Tinman, have you tried this hack on the DST1062B?
Do you know if the DST1062B has the same components as the DST1102B?
Thanks.
Afaik yes, all Tekway's are equal inside within model series:
DST1062B=DST1102B=DST1202B
DST4062B=DST4102B
DST3022B=DST3042B
The DST3xxxB are probably like DST4000B, but without SRAM soldered and with different FPGA config applied.
The DST4xxxB are a bit different then DST1xxxB (layout and XO), and of course FPGA config didn't match.
So as already said, hacks within model series are possible, but not accross.
Regards the DST1062B hack, it has been tested and confirmed as working by someone else.
On my DST1102B i can switch firmwares between 60-100-200MHz, there are of course measurable differences,
see attached picture (db vs MHz on screen)
Tekway seems to be broad-minded, the -3db bandwidth is always higher
than the model bandwidth (R&S SMY -> DSO ->T 50Ohm terminated)
>>> I should have read the thread more carefully!
I dont think so, there are 24 pages with 350 answers,
it took me one afternoon to read everything,
result was: I know less than before!
(because 95% of the thread is bla-bla-bla...)
Hi Tinhead,
In the plot Frequency/dB that you did with DST1202B fw in your DST1102B Hardware. Did you change the channel amp resistors etc for this plot/trace? I note that with DST1102B fw it is 0dB at 100MHz. If components were not changed, what is the plot/trace like with these changed.
Thanks for your help.
Please zip it and replace the attached, it is slowing down this page ...Edit: Sorry … Corrected.
>>> I should have read the thread more carefully!
I dont think so, there are 24 pages with 350 answers,
it took me one afternoon to read everything,
result was: I know less than before!
(because 95% of the thread is bla-bla-bla...)
I found this page for Hantek Scopes:
http://www.socratesblog.eu/?p=174 (http://www.socratesblog.eu/?p=174)
maybe it helps a little bit.
Hi Tinhead,
In the plot Frequency/dB that you did with DST1202B fw in your DST1102B Hardware. Did you change the channel amp resistors etc for this plot/trace? I note that with DST1102B fw it is 0dB at 100MHz. If components were not changed, what is the plot/trace like with these changed.
Thanks for your help.
this plot was created on very early 100MHz Tekway hw revision, where some parts are like in currenty 200MHz model
and some ~ like in 100MHz model. I should probably create a "proper" one from each model (current hw revision) hacked/not hacked.
In principle as already mentioned it will be a bit worse if you hack 60MHz to 200MHz bw, and almost equal (to my old plot)
if you hack 100MHz model.
For sure, if you change the few resistors it will looks like on original 200MHz model (current hw revision) - see attached
- sweep from HP8594E , 0-400 MHz in 50 ms. Channel 1 is connected with a known good LMR-195 N-to-BNC cable
with a 50-ohm terminator on the scope end. The knee occurs at about 2 ms = 400MHz*27ms/50ms=216 MHz, -3db point is about 266 MHz.
Hi Tinhead,
In the plot Frequency/dB that you did with DST1202B fw in your DST1102B Hardware. Did you change the channel amp resistors etc for this plot/trace? I note that with DST1102B fw it is 0dB at 100MHz. If components were not changed, what is the plot/trace like with these changed.
Thanks for your help.
this plot was created on very early 100MHz Tekway hw revision, where some parts are like in currenty 200MHz model
and some ~ like in 100MHz model. I should probably create a "proper" one from each model (current hw revision) hacked/not hacked.
In principle as already mentioned it will be a bit worse if you hack 60MHz to 200MHz bw, and almost equal (to my old plot)
if you hack 100MHz model.
For sure, if you change the few resistors it will looks like on original 200MHz model (current hw revision) - see attached
- sweep from HP8594E , 0-400 MHz in 50 ms. Channel 1 is connected with a known good LMR-195 N-to-BNC cable
with a 50-ohm terminator on the scope end. The knee occurs at about 2 ms = 400MHz*27ms/50ms=216 MHz, -3db point is about 266 MHz.
Am I correct in saying you meant "The knee occurs at 27ms" and not 2ms? 400MHz x (27ms/50ms) = 216MHz. The step at the right of the screen (13.5 divisions from the left) looks to be the point where the sweep ends (400MHz) and starts (0MHz) again. Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?
But all is ok if the -3dB point is 266MHz. I've never measured it but I wonder what it would be when a 200MHz probe is connected and used. That would make it worse. I take it that your test was without a probe, with the 50ohm terminator at the oscilloscope BNC connector.
Later I may change the resistors after I have my Tekway DST1102B running a English UI. Am I correct in saying that if you don't change the resistors (and adjust the compensation etc). And run it at 200MHz. Then you are better to get the Tekway 100MHz and not a 60MHz oscilloscope to convert/hack?
Yes, traces for not hacked and hacked for each model would be interesting and would show a lot on what performance to expect.
Thanks for your help.
no idea where the spike was coming from, not really important.
Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?It's from normal tracking generator function, switching of RF circuits inside the tracking generator prior to the sweep. It's in the "dead period" during sweep setup, so it's irrelevant.
Do you know what the spike is that is at around 4 divisions from the left, looks to me as if something is wrong like a BNC connector problem? There is also a step at around 3.5 divisions from the left, should there be a step?It's from normal tracking generator function, switching of RF circuits inside the tracking generator prior to the sweep. It's in the "dead period" during sweep setup, so it's irrelevant.
no idea where the spike was coming from, not really important.
looks like a singal bounce to me, no big deal for the test.
0MHz is at the left of the screen. 400MHz is at around 13.5 divisions from the left. That makes the step and spike at around 3.5 and 4 divisions from the left, somewhere between 0MHz and 400MHz. Maybe around 3.75 divisions x(400MHz/13.5) = 111MHz. That's not during sweep setup but is during a sweep at around 111MHz.
0MHz is at the left of the screen. 400MHz is at around 13.5 divisions from the left. That makes the step and spike at around 3.5 and 4 divisions from the left, somewhere between 0MHz and 400MHz. Maybe around 3.75 divisions x(400MHz/13.5) = 111MHz. That's not during sweep setup but is during a sweep at around 111MHz.
no, check the picture, the spike was on 0MHz
Same but now connection is HP8567B, same cable, terminator (tektronix), 10dB suhner attenuator, scope BNC.Probably reflections causing trouble. A high-impedance input is not a nice resistive circuit like a low-impedance transmission line, which is why all high bandwidth scopes have 50 ohm inputs. It's actually standard practice for scope bandwidth testing to use as much attenuation as possible (limited by the generator's output power), to eliminate exactly this problem.
(I think attenuator reduce scope input reactance bad effects littlebit?? (less "ringing")
Same but now connection is HP8567B, same cable, terminator (tektronix), 10dB suhner attenuator, scope BNC.Probably reflections causing trouble. A high-impedance input is not a nice resistive circuit like a low-impedance transmission line, which is why all high bandwidth scopes have 50 ohm inputs. It's actually standard practice for scope bandwidth testing to use as much attenuation as possible (limited by the generator's output power), to eliminate exactly this problem.
(I think attenuator reduce scope input reactance bad effects littlebit?? (less "ringing")
I draw my front panel to fit the real oscilloscope.
For this had to completely disassemble the device.
Slightly changed design. Design Tekway I don't like.
In the tekway.zip - two good quality file (*.PDF).
I have just received my Tekway oscilloscope. It is:
Model: dst1102b
Soft version: 2.05.0 (100305.0)
Hardware version: 0x555583e8
I've purchased a USB UART RS232 3.3V TTL board to enable me to change the Menu Display to English.
On reading the instructions again, it said that there was a prehacked version for firmware versions before 2.6.xx.
Are the prehacked versions upgrades still available. Would like to make it a 100MHz or 200MHz oscilloscope with English Menu Display.
I also can't find a USB driver to run TTScop program via USB from my Laptop computer. Any idea where I can download this driver? I have Windows 7 64 bit.
BTW if someone have Tektronix "input normalizer" (small box with BNC connectors) it is useful tool (it need be just made for this capacitance value what is scope input)... but today can not find very easy.
BTW if someone have Tektronix "input normalizer" (small box with BNC connectors) it is useful tool (it need be just made for this capacitance value what is scope input)... but today can not find very easy.
It's just an adjustable capacitor in a box. A 10:1 probe accomplishes exactly the same: making sure the capacitance of all channels is the same so you can swap probes without checking compensation each time. Just compensate the probe to one channel, and adjust the other channels so the signal looks the same. The actual capacitance value doesn't really matter as long as it's within the compensation range of your probes. On scopes were you can adjust the input capacitance (which does not include the Tekway/Hantek scopes, as far as I know)
Really? But why they sell these calibration fixtures for every different scope input capacitances seoarately.To be more accurate, it's a fixed cap with a smaller trimmer cap in parallel (18pF // 2-8pF for the 20pF model according to Håkan). There is also a 1Mohm resistor in parallel (so it forms a 1:1 compensated voltage divider if the scope's input capacitance matches the normalizer). They need different ones because you would need a huge adjustment range (=bad resolution) to cover 12pF-47pF or so.
If it is adjusted capacitance how you can calibrate with it becouse you never know if capacitance is right.Just like every other calibration, by comparing it to a more accurate source (at some point they probably use a capacitance meter). Not sure what the factory calibration procedure was. But I don't see the point about caring about input capacitance, as long as the channels match, everything should be fine. And you can't adjust it on (most) modern scopes anyway.
Also in tektronix service/calibration manuals ask put this "normalizer" to scope input (and also extremely fast rising pulse generator) but never it tell that adjust this box capacitance.That would be the service manual for the normalizer, if such a thing exists (it was designed for internal use, so I'm not sure how well it was documented).
This box can use in calibration routines for adjusting device under calibration! If you adjust tools for calibration what you then calibrate?That's the whole traceability chain of calibration, all the way to the national standards lab. A 3.5/4.5 digit DMM is calibrated by a DMM calibration system, which may be calibrated by a reference DMM, which is calibrated by a voltage and resistor transfer standard, which is calibrated to a Josephson standard, which is a fundamental physical standard which defines the volt. Same for time/frequency, which is traced to a cesium clock. You can derive capacitance from those.
After searching through some data this is the best info you will find. Straight from the horses mouth........so to speak. Both the author of this procedure and the gentleman who inserted it into the microfiche files worked at Tek during the 60's and I am just the means by which it made its way to the digital realm.
If readjustment should be necessary, the internal resistor should first be measured to be sure it is in tolerance. Then the internal variable capacitor may be adjusted to produce a square—cornered, flat-topped response to a square-wave signal on an oscilloscope it is designed to be used with, in the same way as described in the instructions for adjusting scope input capacitance. The response of the scope to square waves should first be known to be normal, and the input capacitance to the scope should be known to be within about five per cent of its nominal value at the attenuator setting used. It is normal for input capacitance to vary slightly from one setting to the next to correspond with slight variations of input resistance. A Tektronix type 130L-C Meter may be used to measure the scope input capacitance. Measurement should be made while the scope is operating. When using the Type 130, to avoid a small possibility of a measurement error due to over driving the input, it is a good idea to use an attenuator setting that corresponds to a deflection factor of about 1 volt per division.
Written by: Leon Orchard
PE/Elec Evaluation
Inserted by: John Mulvey
Tektronix 3-1-67
btw, i did said "manafacturer is installing by defualt 2.6.3 (110225.0) now",
this is not yet bug-free firmware, it is still in principle the same as 2.06.3 (110118.0).
Hanek did changed the PCB revision, so small firmware update was necessary, therefore revision 2.6.3 (110225.0).
It can be downloaded from Hantek website.
No idea if Tekway changed the hardware too, so therefore there is not new firmware on Tekway website.
There are no details on hw modification, we have to wait until someone bought a Hantek with new hw version.
They just started the production, so probably few old hardware revision models still available.
Even if Hantek said "minor modifications only" i can tell you already that
display init is different (same display but connected a bit different),
buzzer driver has been changed (connected to different port - probably pin swap with display),
some FPGA design changes (only for new hw revisions).
The firmware update is of course checking the hw revision, so it will not "destroy" old models
(and will not update buzzer, display and FPGA).
Most interessting thing during hw revision check is the information
which will be read by the "readHWVersion" from EEPROM:
- PCB revision
- LCD revision
- TOUCH revision
- FRONT PANEL revision
- USB revision
- NET revision
PCB and DISPLAY are clear, probably some routing changes to support new functions, NET is know, that's the LAN addon,
USB revision (probably) for the planned SCPI support, TOUCH - yeah, we know there will be touch in the future,
and FRONT PANEL - right, Hantek have on the front panel preparation for DB25 plug - probably LA functionality in the future.
I think i will order a new hw revision and check what inside, however not now - i will wait until the Hantek's LAN addon is ready.
from china
Yes... right. And for me it did not with with the ..(1).up in the end of the filename. Checking this on the console (UART) showed the error "... unexpected character '(' "
;) You need to remove the '(1)' from filename so that ist looks like all update files. And - of course you need to copy back the language files...
One of these ching chong language files contained in the hantek version must be corrupt. The system crashed when I tried to switch language thru one of these funny character settings (don't know which one) ....yep,indeed (that's why deleted my posting few sec. ago ...)
So here is an update file that contains Chinese, English, French and German and works fine for me.
And there is on additional (empty) file in the update file set called 'special'. This one is unique to Tekway update set. Anybody any idea what this means?
from china
dst1kb_2.06.3_1062ridoflim(110315.1).up - this is somehow broken or template for upcoming firmware 2.6.3_110315.1
wjb444 , any idea for what this file is ? (i see what inside, seems to be like fw template only).
Is the clue in the filename ?
dst1kb_2.06.3_1062ridoflim(110315.1).up
rid of limits ?
New design of my Chinese Tekway DST1102B.
(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/2131/newtekway.jpg) (http://img97.imageshack.us/i/newtekway.jpg/)
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4323/newtekway2.jpg) (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/newtekway2.jpg/)
(http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4270/newtekway1.jpg) (http://img821.imageshack.us/i/newtekway1.jpg/)
Your front panels look great.Thank you!
Is it possible for you to produce a PDF of the correct size for your origional design. How did you do the cut outs?I have long picked up material for printing. Watched the film and paper. Stopped on paper density 125.
I have not been able to get Windows 7 to install/update the driver that comes with TTScope in the Driver folder. I've downloaded TTScope from both Tekway and Hentek but the driver will not install in Windows 7. Looks to me as if a different driver is required for windows 7. A search has not found a suitable driver. Has anyone a solution for this problem,
Thanks all.
Both channel get same signal but becouse signal split is not as good as it can be (only things what affect timing is ok).
(same cable lenght and same type of cable so trawel time is enough same.)
Both channel get same signal but becouse signal split is not as good as it can be (only things what affect timing is ok).
(same cable lenght and same type of cable so trawel time is enough same.)
If you swap the signal cables between channels does it change?
If you swap the signal cables between channels does it change?
it didn't matter, ch2 is always 1ns behind ch1.
This is actually software error, my DSO (cold) is having 200ps skew time between channels, after warm-up 1ns.
Of course ALT trigger works without skew time, but is not having avg. and long mem mode, so not really a work around.
Even with ext trigger no difference, ext/5 even worse because of bug which has been still not fixed (ext/5 is increasing the 1ns to 3ns or so).
Of course you can create a small loop with RG316 cable for ch1 data and setup trigger on ch2 - hehe, then of course skew time is 0ns.
Skew time is common for many DSOs, but of course every company is reducing it to few ps during manufacturer calibration,
this seems to be not the case anylonger for HanTekway (if i'm not wrong, it wasn't there with very old firmware - but hacked).
If you use scope in high temperature. Room temperature high or if air do not flow very free around scope.
Maybe it is good in this case install small fan inside scope. (no need full speed, you can reduce nominal speed example x0.7 - 0.9 (depends fan type and quality) and you get low noise and it still helps airflow inside scope. It need only small extra amount of air. (example double speed if compare natural free air flow and exance rate) In this case I recommend fan take outside air and flow is to inside. In this case you can put small filter before fan so all dirty do not free travel to inside. In normal 22Celsius room temp some components work quite high temp. Clearly over 70C case temperature. It is not good to go any more high. They may last but maybe fail rate start grow.
... are choking to death.
actually all components are still within specs, but a slow running fan will of course reduce the potential stress.
If you have good quality fan you can use temp / speed control, if you use a cheap one it is enough to replace the 7812
on power board by 7805 (and run a 12V fan with 5V).
Does anybody have the details of the fan (size ?) and are there any pictures of the mod ?
What about using a filter and running the fan to suck the air in ?
The only thing that I've noticed that I don't like so far is the max 5V/div. Why not 10/dev...at least that way I could work on a 240V system without needing to buy a 100x probe...
Thank you for the response, I certainly appreciate and I should have been more specific that I meant AC systems.
240VAC with 50v/div doesn't fit with the default setup (unlike the Rigol which will display 10V/div, this was a big issue for us when we bought a LeCroy WaveAce as a second scope in my office and it only supported 5V/div max)
680Vpk-pk/50V = 14 divisions minimum meaning that you would need 10V/div and use 7 of the eight available on the screen to display the waveform.
Finally got my DST1062B from taobao. Easily upgraded it to DST1202. Dont run any benchmark tests on the edge of the bandwidth. There are only 60MHz probes out of the box, so I need to buy another to take appropriate tests. Everything is great! 8) , but I cant connect my oscilloscope to PC via usb. I'm using TTScope 2.0.0.4 software that i've downloaded from Tekway official site but it doesn't work :'( . And I cant get svg data to my USB flash greater than 40k points >:(, I want to get 512k and 1M points!
Thanks a lot to all forum members in this topic, especially tinhead.
use the software from Hantek website or chinese Tekway website .. there is 2.0.5 too, http://www.tekwayins.com/pic/TTScope.rar (http://www.tekwayins.com/pic/TTScope.rar)
Software is works but I still can't get svg data greater than 40k points. In this case PC software is useless for me. Can you get 512k or 1M points out of your oscilloscope?
Software is works but I still can't get svg data greater than 40k points. In this case PC software is useless for me. Can you get 512k or 1M points out of your oscilloscope?
with firmware version 2.6.1 the 1M data export is working, with other versions not. It has been confirmed as bug and it will be fixed soon.
mine works to 512k, but not 1M.
with firmware version 2.6.1 the 1M data export is working, with other versions not. It has been confirmed as bug and it will be fixed soon.
just to find a PCB I can't remember having seen in this thread so far (see attachment)
There is a footprint for a Ethernet jack, for speaker and microphone jack and finally for a micro-SD!
I have not yet tried to "unlock" 200 MHz operation, just wanted to get a quick response on the PCB shot.
I must be out of my mind for doing this, but
I plugged in a USB Flash Drive in the retrofitted USB Host connector:
"usbctl: zombie --> [reset] --> default. Device in default state."
So, no luck - but the good news: Everything else still works! ;-)
Next, instead of measuring some test-signals:
The 28-pin footprint shown in P1170503 is connected to the "PHONE1" jack footprint. After some investigation in the Mini2440 schematics (http://www.friendlyarm.net/dl.php?file=mini2440_schematic.zip (http://www.friendlyarm.net/dl.php?file=mini2440_schematic.zip)) it is for 100% sure that this can be used to retrofit a UDA1340: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/philips/UDA1340.pdf (http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/philips/UDA1340.pdf)
Looking at the SDIO Pinout I am sure we just have to find the right SD-slot. Unfortunately, the buzzer right in front blocks changing the SD-card, so I guess I will go for some flat ribbon cable... Only thing missing could be the missing pullups.
I still can't find a way to see how a Davicom DM9000 or another Ethernet-PHY could be attached to the board to make use of the ethernet-jack. So to make a sophisticated guess I say the ethernet-part is implemented in the FPGA I can't identify due to its heatsink...
Hi!
No luck with the micro-SD... Soldered a flat ribbon cable to the footprints and to a micro-SD slot. No matter if I insert the start before power up or after powering up - nothing happens. The resistors on the bottom side of the pcb are fine - so I guess software is not capable?
BR
Robert
it works very simple - these 3 input selectors (4053 pin 9,10,11) are connected via 10k resistor (near usb client jack) to VUSB, cap to GND (giving some delay) and missing resistor to unknown GPIO port.Yes, this is exactly what I've said and showed in the picture.
This missing resistor (that's where you soldered the 2.2k) is used (i gues) only if the firmware is forced switching the USB client off and USB Host2 on (no matter if there is VUSB on USB client).
Without this resistor (there is currently no support in firmware for this anyway - btw, what fw version is istalled on your DSO?) this circuit still works, but only via VUSB detection.
By default 4052 is selecting X inputs, so the second host is enabled if no VUSB. If VUSB exists, 4052 is switching USB signals to USB client and the USB_Enable (actually another one GPIO port)
to the 1.5k resistor (which is soldered near USB client jack and routed to 3Y1). This signal (actually the 1.5 resistor between D- and the GPIO port) is necessary to allow proper USB client functionality.
The 3rd resistor between 3Y1 and 3Z is probably for hysteresis.
To monitor GPIO port status there are 3 ways
- boundary scan over JTAG (which is always the best way)
BSDL files are available on Samsung website, but if you have no hardware and knowledge how to use it, then you lost.
- via test app loaded instead of linux.
There are many such test applications for S3C2440 to show the GPIO port status (some over USB which didn't make sense here, others via shell/uart),
but you have to compile them and load to NAND or even better to memory over JTAG.
- via what already on the DSO
Normally you can read GPIO under linux, you will need an GPIO driver and application calling such driver.
Luckily there is such driver availble on HanTekway DSOs - /dso/driver/dso-iobank.ko and there is application calling this driver /dso/app/setio
The "setio" is being used by default like that /dso/app/setio g12 o 1 (where G12 is GPG12 port/pin, "o" is output and "1" the actual data which will be written to that port/pin).
However this app can be user like /dso/app/setio g12 i to display the port value.
So all you need is to connect via UART to the Linux shell, kill the dso.exe by ctrl+c, to connect 3.3V via 2k to the unknown GPIO pin (i mean the one where you soldered 2.2k resistor)
and monitor what changed ... lot of ports/pins to monitor, but you can write a script to loop until change and display what changed.
I don't agree on this. The missing resistor connects to an INPUT, this is where the USB-driver should look at to reconfigure the USB core on the S3C2440. Working against the 4.7k/10k voltage divider of VBUS of USB A jack would work somehow, but would be a design flaw. This is supported by measurements I did when the DSO was running: you get ~0V when no USB-A is in (10k to GND) on BOTH sides (so not even a pullup) and ~3.3V when connected (voltage divider to VBUS) on BOTH sides (so again no pulldown). The pin is not driven at all - this will be the pin to consider for reconfiguring the S3C2440. By the way, I was looking at the Mini2440 - I saw somebody asking about the SEL_USBPAD bit (http://www.armkits.com/download/s3c2440.pdf (http://www.armkits.com/download/s3c2440.pdf)) but I doubt this is enough for reconfiguration. Never saw somebody telling it actually works. To be honest, it is of course more tempting to stick in a small 4-port-hub and avoid the hassle.
I don't think so. To do this, it would have to have a connection to Sx. This is not the case. I guess 3Z is connected to the pin controlling the 1.5k pullup in the original design. By soldering a zero-ohm resistor to this location you ALWAYS have the pullup-control connected to the USB A jack. Using the actual configuration, its only connected if VBUS is applied. I guess 3Y0 (default) is open (so the 1.5k is flowing on one side in default state).
I will do this when I have time. Have a Segger J-Link, so this is not a problem at all. More of a problem is that we don't have 2.00mm headers on stock in the lab. I don't like to solder plain cable to this socket. I think I will tackle this when upgrading the analog parts, because I don't want to srew/unscrew the frontpanel frequently (the threads in the plastic get stale way to fast even if you're cautious).j-link works, but don't forget to save NAND dump with OOB blocks in case you wish to restore it some day.
Quite probable I will try to get some WiFi-stick running with the DSO to allow ssh (dropbear?) access to avoid the hassle of designing an addon-card we don't have to connections for. I think it takes a broken unit to unsolder the BGAs and "beep" all connections. - And I prefer it won't be mine... ;-)
So, does anybody has some kind of toolchain ready? Some kind of BSP available? What about triggering Hantek/Tekway or - if they are not nice, which I don't think - let FSF making them releasing the relevant sources?
just buy H-JTAG and USB UART converter , but the USB UART converter not workI broke into the brains oscilloscope through such devays:
oscilloscope through such devays:how?
My DSO firmware version is 2.6.3,
by measurement,the last pin of UART is 3.3v on the picture,not 0v. if USB UART converter 's "gnd "to the last pin of UART in DSO , can't this instrument be damaged ? now rx0 : 0.1v rx1: 0v
just buy H-JTAG and USB UART converter , but the USB UART converter not work,
I felt very strange: fw2dump.zip can dump 3 files(boot.bin kernel.bin root.bin ),but fw_backupV3.zip can't.
If only use H-JTAG, What should I do? How do you define the offset of the 3 file .with H-JTAG, or actually H-Flasher software you can backup the whole NAND or restore it. If you backup via h-jtag/h-flasher you have to ensure that OOB blocks are also saved,
How do I downgrade to 2.6.2 or lower?
How did the "bin" file compile or decompile?
What's changed, Where's changed, Every version firmware?ohh, this is very bad question, actually for 2.6.3 there is description of changes on chinese Tekway website, as you from china it will be easy for you to read it.
And finally analyze this, What will I need to access and read for this course?
I'm not concerned about Linux version. It is embedded linux and for user it is Oscilloscope (not linux entertainment machine). User do not need even know about system behind display and knobs. It works and linux version do not make any problem afaik. Of course if people want make some modifications and if he want make it as game box or tv or music box he need use 2.6.13 compaible things.
But then I remember - if I think this quality... it is <1k$ scope and in this class it is really unexpected good.
Building guality (main board) seems littlebit better now in these new HW. (I have look only some old and new units so I can tell only these units what I have checked)
I wasn't lucky to get a "new" hardware, but I was lucky enough to get Tekway's 1.00.3 mainboard with 200 MHz ready out of the box. I can see all input stages resistors are 200 MHz version, so, seems that no soldering needed at all.aha, so check the i2c.log, maybe it is rebranded 200MHz model.
The thing I definitely don't lake at all, is how it all soldered. I thinks kids in kindergarten do better! Resistors and capacitors sometimes are more than a half case out of there place, flux is everywhere and I wasn't able to wash it out with isopropyl alcohol and even with FluxOff!take a picture of that ...
One of 4 ADC radiators is missing.that's ugly
For now, I like to know is at a good idea to apply Cramolin FluxOff to wash PCBs and... avoid using PVC and polysterene. ... hmm, i would use pure Isopropanol (99.7%).
where SN is stored?in the EEPROM, located between display connector and front USB.
I think this caused by product line wasn't adjust properly, and QA not good too.
^^ maybe that's why this one was suposed to be for chinese market.Nop. Pioneer told me it's original English, besides there were some 5062 from Pioneer with English face for another guy from Russia (not Igor).
BTW, I know there is a shift between waveforms on first and second channel when connected to same source on old hardware version. But I was unable to reproduce that, what I'm doing wrong and how can I see that to handle such a thing in feature?
Mine is 2.06.3 (110118.0) which isn't latest. I'm asking because if I'm using both channels, basically I'm doing that to monitor two signal synchronously to see what's going on when one changes with the other one. So, if there is a shift, that might be a little bit tricky. So, if this is a hardware bug, it's not a 2 channel oscilloscope, it's a couple of scopes in one case. Having two channels became useless if they are not showing _exactly_same_time_ signal. You will not be able to see a hysteresis, for example. IMHO.BTW, I know there is a shift between waveforms on first and second channel when connected to same source on old hardware version. But I was unable to reproduce that, what I'm doing wrong and how can I see that to handle such a thing in feature?
depends, it can be that your unit have different firmware, or due some flying components is doing the job better (haha, not a good joke),
or just cable length caused.
Mine is 2.06.3 (110118.0) which isn't latest. I'm asking because if I'm using both channels, basically I'm doing that to monitor two signal synchronously to see what's going on when one changes with the other one. So, if there is a shift, that might be a little bit tricky. So, if this is a hardware bug, it's not a 2 channel oscilloscope, it's a couple of scopes in one case. Having two channels became useless if they are not showing _exactly_same_time_ signal. You will not be able to see a hysteresis, for example. IMHO.
Source 60M 4nsWhat's your fw version?
Not the same as the sampling depth, the waveform will be inconsistent it? :(
I thought why not to replace electrolytic capacitors as they seem to me to be low quality.
To start with PSU: there are:
1. 100 uF x 400 V (150C)
2. 47 uF x 35 V
3. 22 uF x 16 V
4. 1000 uF x 16 V (4 pc)
5. 47 uF x 25 V
6. 1000 uF x 25 V
7. 100 uF x 35 V
I would like to know is there is a way to improve PSU by increasing capacitance or voltages of this caps? Should I use low impedance/ESR caps?
Besides, there are 6 1000 uF x 10 V and 8 220 uF x 16 V and one 470 uF x 25 on mainboard, any suggestions what to with them?
Huh, this device looks like a DIY kit :) But we can squeeze more out of it, I think. Unfortunately, I'm not a PSU designer at all. and when it comes to switching PSUs - hands up.
cu -l /dev/ttyUSB0 -s 115200and to get "almost all" backup typetar -cvpf /mnt/root_backup_originall.tar / --exclude "mnt/*" --exclude "proc/*"
and don't forget to umount /mnt before you rip out thumbdrive.| (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020441_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020444_pw.jpg) |
| (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020446_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020447_pw.jpg) |
| (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020449_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020450_pw.jpg) |
| (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020452_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020455_pw.jpg) |
| (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020457_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020458_pw.jpg) |
| (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020461_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020463_pw.jpg) |
| (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020464_pw.jpg) (http://www.e-priest.ru/projects/electronics/Hantek_DSO_5xx2/p1020466_pw.jpg) |
2 tinhead: do you have any sujestions about "10USD total" PSU fixup?
So, what part quality may be different? Solid devices should be same, any idea?
I'm I right thinking that 3.3V PSU ripple is what we see on idle/connected to ground probe?
Modification of own DSO not suppose to be a crime, I think.
But tinhead made recipe public available. Is that a crime?
For now, my questions are:
1. what fs is used for .bin files?
2. what database language files stored in?
There are two versions of YAFFS: yaffs and yaffs2, so what is the used one?
Hi everybody,
Thanks for you for helping me choose Hantek DSO1502B which has arrived yesterday. I'm very satisfied with it. Today I had a look inside and found that it has new hardware revision PCB. Is it possible to "upgrade" it to 200Mhz? What about resistors? Thank you in advance for advise.
Regards,
Paul
Thanks tinhead for the prompt answer. I'll try to do it over uart. Is it possible to determine what version do I have? The resistors values are different compare to what you published for Tekway PCB. I'm not going to replace them, just curious.
e-priest:I've bought it from AliExpress.com, search for "Hantek DSO-5102B".
Can you send me contact info on your Hantek DSO5102B supplier please...?
Thanks tinhead for the prompt answer. I'll try to do it over uart. Is it possible to determine what version do I have? The resistors values are different compare to what you published for Tekway PCB. I'm not going to replace them, just curious.And it will be nice if you post a photo of power supply to.
How are your progressing on your mod(s) ?Well, my device OK and works fine, but I'm not going to mod it until I at least I will be able to measure the difference. I'm going to build 350 ps rise edge generator. I crack opened it, you can find some photos on pages above, but nothing special, same 1.00.3 Tekway board inside. Dirty soldering, tons of flux.. but still not bad and much better than expected from 6 hundred backs Chinese toy. It's definitely can be hacked, but I have some unanswered questions. Seems that prices go down.
Please advise...
Thanks!
Doug
What Volts/Div:Coarse/Fine does in channel menu? A can't figure you what changes between Coarse and Fine.
Normal steps are example 1 - 2 - 5V / divGot it, thank you.
Select Fine.
Now turn channel voltage adjust knob. (Vertical: Volts/div)
It changes example 1.02V - 1.04V - 1.06V - 1.08V - 1.10V / div
(steps are different in different voltage "band") example if go under 1V next is 990mV/div etc.)
If Tekway disable the UART port,What can I do?My dso 's UART not transmit any message.Before this,I let after-sales department to handle this so-called update .I don't know is or isn't this(http://www.xici.net/#b1293165/door.asp (http://www.xici.net/#b1293165/door.asp))
How am I to open the UART port? what to writer the vivi.bin or the original bootloader ,I want knoe the specific address or offset ?
Hello tinhead, first of all I want to thank you for your time and dedication to this subject, this thread definitively made me decide which DSO to get, my DST1102B is on its way bought from Mr. Pioneer Huang at Aliexpress.
I'll sure take it apart after a quick DOA check, will post 8MPX pics of the boards. The scope will arrive in chinese and I will change it to engish, does this will require a complete firmware change or just some setup? AFAIK the latest FW is 2.6.3 right? But at the Tekway homepage theres only 2.5 version. Where can I find the latest english version? Sorry I have not finished reading all the thread since Im currently in a extensive work project that takes almost all of my time.
I cant wait to have my own scope, currently using a Fluke 199 Scopemeter from the company I work for which does not have all the complete DSO functionality (also, the horizontal black line disease, common for this series fluke scopmeters, is stating to appear)
Can it be possible that I get that new redesigned PCB with SD, Ethernet footprints? Or currently its only possible with Hantek DSOs like RobertB's?
Thanks !
tinhead,thank you!
Yes,I do it in accordance with your same step before ask you, press the CTRL+C and Enter many times (in SecureCRT and HyperTerminal ).But am I wrong,is it possible in DNW.exe.
but whatever l tried, wouldn't get any message in windows .
My USB FT232 converter is normal when connection rx to tx itself.
What time to Post your matching supervivi and own compiled vivi ,and the interrelated files of other ways?
In addition, I do not have the qualifications to DIY LAN.
You know (Attempt to disassemble the product can damage it and void your warranty),I don't want to miss the boat 3 years easily.Because JTAG 20 pins not solder.Although I bought the H-JTAG .
If you are interested,I can post my backup files ( boot.bin kernel.bin root.bin )
I often work with short single pulses, so I need to know what the scope is doing if I am to trust what I see on the screen. If I want to look at a repeating waveforms I have several analogue scopes I can use that are much faster to drive. The thing that DSOs do, that beats analogue scopes, is single shot storage of a waveform. There's not a lot of point talking about DSOs for repeating waveforms, that has already been solved. So for this discussion, I always refer to single shot operation.
On my LeCroy there is an info screen, one button, anytime and you see all the channel settings, timebase settings, sample rate and memory acquired at a single glance. It is very clear to me what it is doing, and I know what pulses I can sensibly measure and what is likely to be aliased. By comparison, the Hantek/Tekway design seems to be hiding that information, so I wonder why. Also, they hide the change from Real Time operation to Equivalent Time operation, that is deeply annoying. LeCroy automatically switch to Equivalent Time (they call it RIS, or Repetitive Interleaved Sampling) but it is clearly visible at all times. The operator really <needs> to know when this is happening, otherwise the data on the screen might be totally undersampled and quite untrustworthy.
"actually it is very hard to say what is the real sample rate on these scopes." and "Probably we should ask the original developer"
I agree completely with these comments, but are we never likely to find who it was and ask them...
You said:
"The DSO is using Altera Cyclone II, if you check the specs you will see the amount of internal SRAM is "big" enough for
only one channel 4k sampling"
OK, thanks for that information, I'm not experienced with FPGA so their specs are confusing to me. That would explain the default back to 4k with Autoset. It does change the way the scope must work, there are many compromises compared to my old LeCroy. Even though my 9310 is only 100MS/s, I can trust that what I have on the screen, since I know always what sample rate it being used.
I don't know what SoC/UI means.
In the LeCroy, the sample rate changes are completely logical and in keeping with the published limitations and specs. The Info screen always tells you precisely what is happening. In my LeCroy, the scope acquisition memory defaults to 10k, but you can select 50k. Using 50k increases the processing required to display the waveforms, so drops the update rate, but the choice is yours. As you increase the timebase setting, the scope it will automatically change to RIS (Repetitive Interleaved Sampling) or Equivalent Time automatically, but it clearly tells you this is the case, so you can't be easily fooled alias.
You said:Me too, there is no difference between single and repetitive run in the logic, except the fact that the memory will be purged and filled again and again and again.
"I said "finally" because in 8ns/4ns/2ns/div the diff is very small and hard to count exactly, but it seems to be
200ps, 100ps and 50ps."
Of course, this is what it would do for repeating waveforms. I was testing it for single shot only. Single shot waveform storage is the banner capability that separates DSOs from analogue scopes, so my focus is on single shot.
You said:
"This is of course with real time mode sampling selected. With equ mode selected and 20ns/div the diff between dots
is 100ps instead of 500ps like in real time mode."
Agreed, but I did all my tests on single shot acquisitions. I have analogue scopes and didn't buy a a digital scope to show easy repetitive waveforms.
This is just result of how they using sin/x interpolation and the way how the DSO is designed."
Clearly the maker must work within the limits of physics and with difficult cost restraints. So, I am not being critical of the makers. But, there is no reason for not letting the user know what the scope is doing. There is still something weird happening with the sample rate getting stuck at 400MS/s for so long. I cannot understand why this should happen. At higher time base settings, the scope appears to use 500MS/s and 1000MS/s sample rate, so it's not like the digitiser can't do it. It's not because of a 4k fast RAM limitation, since at 200nS/div, it samples 1.28k at 400MS/s. It just makes no sense to me. I can't understand why they break the 1-2-5 sequence of sample rate at lower timbase settings and go to 1-2-4. I'm looking to explain why it is like this. I can accept quirks of design, but I like to know <why> it is like that.
You said:
"This is just result of how they using sin/x interpolation and the way how the DSO is designed. "
What? Surely this must be a mistake. I saw nothing in the manual about the scope using sinx/x interpolation between actual data points. I detest sinx/x interpolation. I used to sell LeCroy DSOs many years ago, and I have seen many many comparisons of different digital scopes. I finished that work 8 years ago, so I have not seen the latest HP DSOs. Apparently, they have improved dramatically, but in my past experience, by far the worst alias problems my customers encountered were cases where sinx/x was operating. Linear interpolation is the safest method. As soon as you see the very characteristic alpine looking sharp peaks, you know you have undersampling and need to take care to ensure you aren't looking at alias. Since Hantek/Tekway under the Display menu allows selection of Dots or Vectors, I assumed Vectors meant linear interpolation. We must find some way to be sure about this, it really matters to me.
You said:Physically these dots have to be interpolated dots and not actual sampled points.
"Therefore don't count the dots, they not one per sample and don't compare to other DSOs"
If the dots are not actual sample points, what else could they be? Don't forget, I have always used single shot mode and ensured Real Time mode was operating.
Please don't think I am full of criticism, I'm just trying to understand how this thing works, and whether I can trust its single shot screens. I deal with photomultiplier and gas radiation detectors and fast one-ff pulses matter to me.
As general DSO philosophy, the vital thing is to understand the limitations of the technology so you are not fooled by alias. Aliasing happens all the time, we just don't often realise it. Trusting a DSO screen without questioning is a good way to fool yourself.
Another interesting factor is screen alias. The screen only has a limited number of dots across it, if you squeeze memory down to show the pixels, then data is not being shown and alias can occur. To my best knowledge, Hantek/Tekway at least make an effort to capture spikes that are present in memory and display something on the screen that grabs your attention and makes you zoom for more info. LeCroy have always done this. I believe GW Instek take the trouble also. Many little modern scopes simply ignore the spike in memory and if luck has it fall into the data that is decimated for screen display, then bad luck, you never see it. If you ask a Tek salesman about this, they get excited and say the data isn't lost, it's still in memory. But so what, why would you scroll through anything up to 1 meg of waveform data <every single time> to find something that you don't know is there!!
I have no trouble with instrument and technology limitations. I have no trouble with compromise made for better cost. But if you can't find out what those imitations are, how can you ever know when to be alert for alias? Even a car manual tells you what speeds to use for each gear...
Please keep up the good work, I have very much appreciated your work in informing us all about these scopes. I'm enjoying tinkering with the HAntek/Tekway scope, the screen readability for my older eyes is very nice, I just don't trust it yet and may never fully, unless I get some answers. I have emailed this issue to Hantek, who have sent a polite "gone to engineering evaluation" reply, so I wait with interest. In the mean time, I thought it would be interesting to ask your thoughts on the matter. *smile*
they located in the (shielding) input channel part of the PCB, which you already opened - i can see tme on your pics :)
I tried to find the resistors which determine the lowpass filter value, but I did not find them, I guess they are on the other side and I was lazy to do that.
Something that I noticed is that it gets really hot inside. After 30 minutes of playing with it, when I opened it, all the metal plates were REALLY hot (I dont want to know the ICs). In fact before opening it I noticed a very intense heatwave coming from the top. I installed a 5cmx5cm fan in the place designed for that, and soldered a header in the power supply where it says "fan". Now it runs cool after hours of use. Sure its noisy but if it's a guarantee of a better lifespan i think it's not a big sacrifice, anyway I always have earphones listening some good music ;)right, the most heating comes from PSU, then the input circuit then FPGA and ADC.
UPDATE: NOW HACKED !!!
At first I was afraid but the procedure seemed to be very easy, so i did it. Now I'm happy and grateful for tinhead :)
I also wanted to do something about the PSU's 3.3v but didnt have much caps or regs lying around so I installed 2 extra 220uF Tantalumyou can measure the ripple by yourself :)
caps in the 3.3v output:
Tinhead, do you think the tantalums are helping? Im looking towards fully hack the device including Ethernet, PSU mods, etc.
Something curious is that my DSO had a permanent +20mV offset on CH1, I did not took pictures of the shorted probe showing the offset. After the hack and tantalum caps the problem has dissappeared, I dont know why.
you can measure the ripple by yourself :)
The Ethernet mod, yeah, maybe i should produce some PCBs. Few ppl asked already, it seems that the 6mil is to small for home made PCBs.
Can the scope measure its own ripple by placing the probe in the +3.3v net?
wow 6mil sounds difficult but could be possible, I've done 8mil with a lot of problems, but got good results at last.
Tinhead,You saw that my upload files?Because i didn't have enough power to do that now. Only if i need to enough to know to do it .Can you tell me what the difference is between the received files and your previously files,and reciprocal measures ?(if you can post the better nandflash backup file of dst1602, so much the better.)I only know a little Linux.used all your upgrade applications, always reported error code . I don't know what Tekway did?
BTW ... Loaded TTScope Software from Scope CD ... plugged in USB ... and a bad bong ! Usb Driver failed to load ..... won't attach ... eMail off to Hantek Support just to see what happens ... :( ??? .. :'(
Anyone w/similar USB problem ?
Thanks!
Doug
Tinhead,You saw that my upload files?Because i didn't have enough power to do that now. Only if i need to enough to know to do it .Can you tell me what the difference is between the received files and your previously files,and reciprocal measures ?(if you can post the better nandflash backup file of dst1602, so much the better.)I only know a little Linux.used all your upgrade applications, always reported error code . I don't know what Tekway did?
yes i saw and got it, i will check on weekend (quite busy right now)
Tinhead ...DSO5102B doen support 1M only in one chan mode, so if even this did'nt work then you have an issue with your DSO (if so, tell me fw version)
Removed my new Hantek DSO5102B from shipping container here .... applied power .... the display is quite nice at quick look.
... looking around etc ... I notice Acquire Menu - 1M LongMem is not supported by the model. Is this a SW, HW issue or both ?
Very Interesying Features ;D ... I think I am going to like this
Probably will do Power Supply mods this week ... got the TI PTH04070WAH Chip as sample.
Comments Please ...
Thanks!
Doug
Hi Tinhead.
I've been waiting for the Windows 7 64 bit driver for TTScope. Do you know if this has been released.
Thanks for all the work that you do for us. I also wouldn't have a Tekway 200MHz oscilloscope if it wasn't for you.
RFman.
1: I think this is not a good way of understanding what is happening. Any DSO can under-sample. I don't care who argues, any DSO can alias and show nonsense - I've done it myself and seen it on 1GS/s scopes with 500MHz bandwidth and huge memory that cost $70,000!! I don't wish to sound horrible, but there can no argument about this.
It is a fact of the universe, like the speed of light.
If you sample in anyway, you can get alias.
There are some compromises with the Hantek/Tekway for long memory, but they don't make it clear when and how those compromises happen, an information screen is absolutely necessary!
Basically, I believe that a DSO should work for the user, not against the user. Most Chinese models I have seen don't seem to do this. It is a shame, I have no trouble with cost based limitations to a design. Honest disclosure shows respect for the customer. Would you get into an aeroplane that had "aerobatic" written on it without knowing the exact limits for vertical and inverted acceleration??? *laughs*
Hello, I've been using my DST1102B (my first scope :D) to design a microcontrolled buck converter and everything has been pure sweetness. The only things ths bugs me is when you save to USB, why does it save a .bmp and .gif of the picture? I can do just fine with .gif, Is there any way to make it only save .gif file? Or better ! is there any way to get fast oscillograph screenshots in the PC without using the slow TTScope?
I've found a way to use Tekway's TTScope in windows 7, Just copy and rename:
<Hantek's TTScope Installation Dir>\config\DSO5202B_eng.ini
to
<Tekway's TTScope Installation Dir>\config\DST1202B_eng.ini
This way I can use Tekway's TTScope, but it's still slow :( I suspect the scope sends *.bmp screenshots instead of some type of compressed image. Is there any third party software ?
Hope HanTekWay will eventually go open-source.Why would they do that? What would be the incentive? Most Chinese companies are even more restrictive about documentation and details than companies like Tek and Agilent, and even they have never released the source as far as I know, even when they published full schematics.
I guess that's why they haven't releases the SDK yet - they just don't have all the sources anymore. I saw such a situation once, I was the one who had to develop new software after the previous main developer ... (to be polite) retired and left only binary compiled version to us.
I have no sympathy for companies losing their source code. It is simply gross mismanagement when this happens. Firing people is no excuse for losing assets like source code. In fact, there is no excuse. It is not rocket science keeping track of source code, and the principles aren't new. More like known since 30 or 40 years.
It sounds like they don't do version control either else they would have the archives. The implications are that they can't backtrack and fix bugs properly, hence flaky f/w
Sure version control exists, but nobody really cares about clean programming - time to fix is important as this costs money!
So why chinese company should be different? No reason at all.
Probably another good reason that HanTekway should release the API, they can concentrate on the hardware and let the developer community decide the functionality of the equipment. Both sides win.
full ack, and afaik they got during last days some proposals, up to them to decide. In my opinion is not a shame to let ppl help you,
it is a shame to ignore it.
From 200nS.div up to 8nS/div, the sample rate stays stuck at 800MS/S.
Finally, at the top timebase setting of 4uS per div, (100MHz model limit) the sample rate jumps to 1GS/S.
if you count like that, you should count what behind the menu, the scope is always using this area, menu is only overlay displayed (click F0 to hide it).
Number of sample points = time/div x number of divisions (16 in Hantek/Tekway) / time between sample points (or 1/sample rate)...
What I have found with my Hantek, in single channel 4k memory mode, is this rule is followed at various timebase settings until it reaches 2 uS,
when the sample rate is 100MS/S, and the total memory acquired in each 'sweep' is 3200 points.
See what I mean, (2 uS x 16)/10 nS = 3200 (at 100MS/S, the time between points is 10nS) It doesn't always work out to give 4000.
This is quite normal in all DSOs and just their basic internal mechanics at work.
I'm sure all these modern cheaper DSOs have limitations with memory at fast digitising speed. 4K shows up because it is likely the maximum of fast RAM available in the FPGA chip. We are talking about very fast data, 1GS/S means an 8 bit data word every 1 nanosecond. Light travels 30cm in that time, no RAM in the world can cope with 1 nanosecond write times! All sorts of engineering cleverness is needed to get this to work. But this means memory size limits, you can't use big cheap DRAM, it's not fast enough at all.
What i found is nice feature allowing to extend the analog bw. As already said before these DSOs are using variable gain amplifier inlet me repeat this post. this is interesting stuff and have been in my dream. so tinhead, is that means if the x setting is default to x10, then 400++MHz signal will not be able to be detected? ie low amplifier gain? badly attenuated by firm/software?
the input stage in combination with digital filter to cut the bw...
where x is the digital filter max corner frequency (it will be normally read from model, where for example DST1102B
is setting the x to 10 (x10) = 100MHz. This "tst" file is overwritting (temporairy in the memory, so no change to firmware)
the model based settings, so you can use higher values. Of course the VAG opamp will not allow to have flat frequency
response but you will be able to do e.g. FFT or avg. sampling up to 450MHz.
Everything above 450MHz didn't really matter, the overclocked ADCs can not handle much more.
With such setting ( [filter] 45 ) in the tst file my DSO is allowing to capture 400MHz singnals (with -15db attenuation )
and 300MHz signals (with -9db attenuation).
The best rise time with such mod is about 1.05ns (pulse generator), giving 333MHz bw which seems to be
good but in principle we have still -3db on 220MHz, -6db on 250MHz, -9db 300MHz, -15db 400MHz and falling (instead of digital
filter and vag based brick wall on 300MHz). I did used it for example to control 433MHz carrier signal,
which worked beautiful....
let me repeat this post. this is interesting stuff and have been in my dream. so tinhead, is that means if the x setting is default to x10, then 400++MHz signal will not be able to be detected? ie low amplifier gain? badly attenuated by firm/software?
100Mhz DSO don't have to detect 400Mhz signals :)you are right. but 1Gs/s should be able to detect 400MHz according to Nyquist.
For a full "300 or 400MHz hack" the VAG opamp part of the firmware should to be changed, therefore i will not call it "hack",for me , it is a hack... that not everybody can do. last question pls. by enabling 400MHz "feature" (ie disabling brick wall filter), will the lower frequency <=200MHz distorted, affected, contaminated? (or whatever you want to call it). edit: ok i just read about the why "dso bw limit", is to avoid noise, but how about flatness, is it affected?
it is just a feature.
100Mhz DSO don't have to detect 400Mhz signals :)you are right. but 1Gs/s should be able to detect 400MHz according to Nyquist.
for me , it is a hack... that not everybody can do. last question pls. by enabling 400MHz "feature" (ie disabling brick wall filter), will the lower frequency <=200MHz distorted, affected, contaminated? (or whatever you want to call it). edit: ok i just read about the why "dso bw limit", is to avoid noise, but how about flatness, is it affected?
if the answer is no, then i think this is the most stupidiest effort that the manufacturer did. even if the answer is yes, then they still the same by not giving access to user to enable/disable it. my 2cnts.
If you don't have necessary equipment to measure for example 400MHz signal this solution will help you,yes sure, very sure! it will help alot! -15db is better than nothing. and as you have indicated in earlier post, it did help you.
it is maybe not a every day situation anyway.yes sure it will not be everyday. but could be a saviour on one particular project in a month.
if the answer is no, then i think this is the most stupidiest effort that the manufacturer did. even if the answer is yes, then they still the same by not giving access to user to enable/disable it. my 2cnts.i'm sorry. there was a misunderstanding. i was in emotional state that i thought my dso is the same as the discussed hantek. it turned out they are different. but my previous points still stand.
if the answer is no, then i think this is the most stupidiest effort that the manufacturer did. even if the answer is yes, then they still the same by not giving access to user to enable/disable it. my 2cnts.i'm sorry. there was a misunderstanding. i was in emotional state that i thought my dso is the same as the discussed hantek. it turned out they are different. but my previous points still stand.
edit: tried to find hantek dso user manual in google but unsuccessful. instead i found this thread is mentioned in hackaday (i did search if its mentioned here, but no) http://hackaday.com/2010/11/24/double-the-hertz-double-the-pleasure/ (http://hackaday.com/2010/11/24/double-the-hertz-double-the-pleasure/) i havent read all the lengthty replies there.
different ? now i'm lost :)coz mine is rigol :P i thought they come from the same root. i should have check the feature earlier. thanx i got the manual already. i was searching dst1102b keyword earlier.
different ? now i'm lost :)coz mine is rigol :P i thought they come from the same root.
You removed BGA package, why? ;Dlook at the avatar.
look at the avatar.
Everything above 450MHz didn't really matter, the overclocked ADCs can not handle much more.
With such setting ( [filter] 45 ) in the tst file my DSO is allowing to capture 400MHz singnals (with -15db attenuation )
and 300MHz signals (with -9db attenuation).
The best rise time with such mod is about 1.05ns (pulse generator), giving 333MHz bw which seems to be
good but in principle we have still -3db on 220MHz, -6db on 250MHz, -9db 300MHz, -15db 400MHz and falling (instead of digital
filter and vag based brick wall on 300MHz).
"Take it apart!" ;)
Tekway DST1062B, PCB Ver1.00.5 2010/11/30...
if you count like that, you should count what behind the menu, the scope is always using this area, menu is only overlay displayed (click F0 to hide it).
Generally spoken this didn't matter because of ADC hold function, the waveform per seconds time (up to 2500 wfrm/s) is describing how fast the data will get collected and processed, the dead time between can be used for whatever (haven't analyzed how this actuall design works) - the DSO can continuously sample until 4k are full or it can sample/hold every 1ns The FPGA can handle both, that's only 8 x 8bit data, refreshed every 125MHz on each ADC where the FPGA can sample i/o with 250MHz.
It reminds me of the old engineer's saying, you can have good, fast, and cheap, pick any two!dso maker (hardware and software) can struggle to maximize and perfect the performance. but later they will charge exponential. or they (engineers and management) can ignore it, and let it flow/blend/balance with the market (profit vs cost). its called business, a "contaminated engineering", imho.
Not sure what you are trying to say here? The waveform update rate isn't very important to digital scopes, despite the fact that some mainstream DSO makers try to get you to think it is the only number that matters - it is in their interest to promote their banner spec and get you to ignore so many important things that affect the usefulness of a DSO. .....
I think they should be called something else, because they do not work like an analogue scope, but I also realise that this is hoping for too much, the name DSO - we are stuck with it now. ......
As another thought about update rate... what is the response time of the LCD display, and how fast are its pixels updated? I don't have a model number or spec on the display LCD used int he Hantek/Tekway DSOs. If it is typically around 5mS pixel response time, the fastest update rate that can be seen is limited by the LCD response rate. 1/5mS =2000 changes black to white per second = 1000 hertz of a waveform. So, the fastest that any pixel can turn on and off, is 1000 times per second. It makes the very high waveform update rates that Tek and HP have been quoting pretty pointless I think.
Additionally, the majority of debugging does not involve hunting for gitches; you're more often looking at highly reproducible, deterministic behavior. In this case as well as the intermittent events, great triggering and deep memory are a boon. That's why those old Lecroy scopes are such a great deal. They've got fantastic triggering capability and (even by today's standards) incredibly deep memory with segmentation ability, and are typically much cheaper than similar bandwidth/sample rate HP and Tek scopes with 1/100 the memory, no segments, and less powerful math and triggering. (According to TeraPeak, last 90 days Ebay final sale prices of 2 working LeCroy 9354 scopes was $300 and $500; and a tek TDS754A was $2600).
good one, go home and sleep a bit :)Done 8)
Today, even a "open" source prostitute is getting more "customers", even if she already wide open.LOL!
@new hardware revision owners
can someone test the /tst hack on new hardware revision ?
is there in v2.06.3 (110420.0) a bugfix with 1M samples saving? Can I upgrade my DST1062 with this Hantek fw?
This is probably the reason, why the fast pulse amplitude fluctuates on DST1062B while on Rigol DS1052E you can see nice stable pulse. Frankly speaking, I don't understand why Tekway/Hantek chose this way and I don't really understand how this can work when you need to capture fast single-shot signals. What is the single-shot bandwidth then? Based on what data is the gain calculated??
It might work for sinus, but how can this work for square with fast rissing/falling eges?
I've also found out, that the varicap bias in low-pass filter is still the same for DST1062B and DS1202B unit. They must do all BW control in VGA. The low-pass filter is used only for 20MHz BW limit on/off...
Hi tinhead,no, it's not. On chinese webpage for 60Mhz model is available, on english webpage for 100Mhz model ... crazy what? , but there is
There seems to only be one version of firmware. Is this the same for all 3 models? Does it change the bandwidth or read some config file and leave bandwidth correct for each model?
Colin
no, it's not. On chinese webpage for 60Mhz model is available, on english webpage for 100Mhz model ... crazy what?
What you always can do is to decrypt/unpack firmware content
Sounds like a good idea. What sort of encryption is used to package the operating software? <colin at lasielle dot net> if you want to email direct.
Frankly, I am beginning to suspect Hantek/Tekway software development is not run by engineers, maybe talented amateurs - talent, but no discipline. Lack of changelog, early release of only some versions, upgrades that don't work. This is not building my confidence in them at all. ???
Hi tinhead,Quoteno, it's not. On chinese webpage for 60Mhz model is available, on english webpage for 100Mhz model ... crazy what?
Defintiely a bit crazy. I found the 100MHz version [dst1kb_2.06.3_15102b_fact(110225.0).up] on the Chinese page. I tried to upgrade my DSO5102B DSO and it appeared to do everything correctly, saying successful upgrade, power off and then on to run it. When I turn it on again, the DSO still shows version 110225, and upgrade count is still 0!! The upgrade simply doesn't work at all.QuoteWhat you always can do is to decrypt/unpack firmware content
Sounds like a good idea. What sort of encryption is used to package the operating software? <colin at lasielle dot net> if you want to email direct.
Frankly, I am beginning to suspect Hantek/Tekway software development is not run by engineers, maybe talented amateurs - talent, but no discipline. Lack of changelog, early release of only some versions, upgrades that don't work. This is not building my confidence in them at all. ???
it was fw from the official webpage. To stop the confusion, Hantek updated shortly the file on the webserver.
Those who downloaded the older file found only update for one model, the file what is right now on server does have
updates files for all models.
The version number, well, look in hex editor and you will see, the dso.exe DOES NOT have the number updated,
it is still 2.06.3(110225.0) and not (110420.0)
Even the update script is talking about old number:
[DST type]dst1000b
[soft version]2.06.3(110225.0)
So yes, we assume it is 110420.0 just because it was compiled in April, but after update the DSO will still show you 110225.0
And btw, Tekway is sending exact the same firmware with exact the same version number "bug"
Phew, I have finally read all 41 pages of this thread...
I bought my Hantek DSO5102B last Christmas and did not even fully unpack it until couple of days ago.
I wonder now, is it worth upgrading to 2.06.3 (110420.0) using the original file vias the USB? Will that cause any problems with the hack,
or should I manually copy the files?
yeah, i created some shortcuts in my first posting to save some reading time )I saw those, but you made many more posts in-between that I found having valuable information. I actually pasted it all into a text file so I can refer to it later and contemplate what's said. :)
how come ?I was building a new workbench and my equipment was all stacked aside waiting for the build to finish. It just took sooooo long but here's the product of that labour:
hacked device is working exact as original device, so as you hacked you can use manufacturer firmware updatesAppears it worked via USB, although it says 2.06.3 (110225.0) even though I used the 110420.0 file from their website, weird.
(for the target model, which i assume is now 200MHz model).
Manuall copy work of course too, but it's not that handy is you don't have LAN addon board or at least uart port outside DSO.
I was building a new workbench and my equipment was all stacked aside waiting for the build to finish. It just took sooooo long but here's the product of that labour:
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7144/dsc01907p.th.jpg) (http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7144/dsc01907p.jpg)
Appears it worked via USB, although it says 2.06.3 (110225.0) even though I used the 110420.0 file from their website, weird.
I looked at the latest firmware update and it seems the only difference is in the scripts in the main tekwayup_client/ folder. Binaries are the same according to my diff here for allactually as there is new and old hw revision each update is checking first for hw model and then calling the child update script.
three versions (5062B, 5102B, 5202B). I wonder why they are separating them now by model if all the binaries are the same.
You mentioned that another member here did some "looking" into the circuits and the code, so I suppose I should not invest time into it if that's going to be presented soon?
What we really need is Hex Rays ARM as that would give us pseudo code, rather than trying to guess through disassembly. Sadly, I do not have it and do not know anyone with it. Kinda pricey at that, too. :\
heh, that's perfect excuse. Btw, on the pic, 4 x Xantrex/Sorensen power supply ? I like them, good value for money, especialy if you use gpib/uart.Yup Sorensen - I got them for $200 on eBay, I think the best deal I ever got judging that you can hook these up parallel, serial, stand-alone. :)
...I agree with you all the way when you said they should focus on fixing bugs and not spending resources on protection as that's just going to make people even more interested to go around it. Just look at what's happening with the commercial software and "fancy" ways of protection that all failed miserably. But I guess Hantekway is trying to keep their shareholders happy, too bad the shareholders don't have much insight into it or they would probably long abandoned protections as they are futile.
so they implemented a secret way to skip model check (by the "special" file). However this only works if the fw version on the DSO know it (so must be at least 2.06.3 (110225.0)).
Anyway, as i heard they will soon have only single fw for all models, probably with better protection, which actually didn't really matter.
i draw schematic (i still have to update some sheets from paper to sch) of the old hw revision (which is what you have), the member i mentionedHe wrote a plugin to convert to pseudo code, that's impressive?!
focused on firmware itself. He disassembled the firmware and analyzed deeper. However as asm analysis cost time he stopped and wrote
own arm decompiler (i think plugin for ida). For sure it might not work that good as Hex Rays, but defnitelly better than nothing (or pure asm).
To buy Hex Rays is not an option (not for single person).
He haven't published yet anything due private work load (so you can still spend some time analyzing too), no idea when he will be "ready",
but i'm bothering him all the time :)
Yup Sorensen - I got them for $200 on eBay, I think the best deal I ever got judging that you can hook these up parallel, serial, stand-alone. :)
He wrote a plugin to convert to pseudo code, that's impressive?!
I thought you wouldn't need a plugin to just disassemble with IDA because ARM is already supported, but can't generate pseudo code without Hex Rays ARM...
When can we see those schematics? :)
Say, I'm struggling here with the dumped image of the firmware. I thought we could mount the root.bin as a yaffs(2) but I'm getting nowhere with it? I managed to compile yaffs2 and got mtd-utils and yaffs2utils as well, but it keeps telling me it's not the right image or not a multiple of 2048+64?
I suppose you aren't using vanilla Linux for your debugging but instead the Mini2440 board?
So now I'm worried that I wont be able to upgrade with future updates?? So how serious is it ? will a new upgrade work? Thanks.you did something wrong, but don't worry, you can't brick HanTekway DSO that easy.
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7144/dsc01907p.th.jpg) (http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7144/dsc01907p.jpg)
Just for the record, that's really a beautiful setup.Thanks Dave, here's a bit wider view of that side of the room.
Dave
tinhead,
slightly off topic, but do you ever sleep? :)
I envy your passion and ability to stay up non-stop if you never sleep! :D
i did the "worst" thing human being can do - turned hobby into my job.
Hello, could somebody share the latest firmware (for a 100 to 200 Mhz hacked DSO), I sent an Email to Tekway but they did not replied and would like to test the new firmware. Thanks !
simple, there is a array with possible bandwidth values,
[0..6] '02 04 06 08 10 15 20'
so we have 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 150 and 200MHz.
If the model is set to DST1062B we have 60MHz bw, so the value 06 is selected
which is second value in the array and with DST1202 we have 200MHz, so value 20 which
is the last, also 6th value from the array.
This array will be used to specify the bw filter corner frequency.
Regards the fw version, well hard to say, i remember there are some ugly bugs in 2.6.2,
so it might make sense to update to latest (which have already some bug fixed, but still crashing in measurment-> help menu and
after few minutes when trigger selected to alt. )
About Factory Calibration
I wonder why they didn't just break up the transactions, into smaller
chunks (16-32K), so the watchdog can get "scratched" regularly?
It sounds like the speed of the USB flash stick will also factor into
how big an export can be performed, without triggering the watchdog?
Short of releasing a complete source package, or a development kit,
I wonder if Hantek/Tekway would be open to the idea of releasing
key source files, where known bugs are likely to reside? After all, I
doubt there is too much proprietary technology in their file manager
app, or the CSV export routines. They could publish the file, let the
user community submit changes, and then reintegrate on their end.
They could save a lot of time, and expense, and we could get critical
bugs fixed. Everybody wins.
BTW, thanks for getting pissed off ;)
another DSO hacked, this time in Poland, thanks (:
nice, 110531.1 ... i hope it will be available public (soon)
Btw, HW 10070 seems to be a new hardware revision, do you see any difference?
for those who looking for 64bit driver, Hantek relesed them today, they works of course for Tekway too.
Can someone PLEASE point me in the correct direction with the URL address for the 64 bit Windows 7 Driver for TTscope software
QuoteCan someone PLEASE point me in the correct direction with the URL address for the 64 bit Windows 7 Driver for TTscope software
Sure, try here:
http://www.hantek.com.cn/Product/64Driver/DSO5000.rar
ECL -K
ready compiled update file for Tekway DSOs only (with patched 512k/1M CSV export and updated help file)
ready compiled update files for Hantek DSOs only (with patched 512k/1M CSV export and updated help file)
Thank you very much tinhead about nice work!
I hope that the company Hantek also like to thank and appreciate the work you've done.
Mmmmh - first bug found where the scope always crashes??
· Press button "Display"
· Choosing XY instead of YT immediately chrashes my scope.
Can somebody verify that this crash happens everywhere?
One more questions:yes, don't care about that. That's historical thing, both companies belongs to sahe share holders and dev team is also shared,
I noticed, that in my terminal program the scope says:
root@Tekway-dso /]#
I assume that is OK ??
Mmmmh - first bug found where the scope always crashes??
· Press button "Display"
· Choosing XY instead of YT immediately chrashes my scope.
Hardware: Hantek5102B, pimped to 5202B
HW 10005 (blue PCB), latest FW (110531.1. from Tinheads files dst1kb_2.06.3_15202b_fact)
Can somebody verify that this crash happens everywhere?
One more questions:
I noticed, that in my terminal program the scope says:
root@Tekway-dso /]#
I assume that is OK ??
Update: Logfile (RS232 output) is attached
NOTE!
Do not use this new here shared 110531.1 FW (tinhead shared .up) for new HW version 10070 scopes.
this time it is not compatible without some adjustment/repair.
Only for HW 10050 and below afaik.
(original factory installed 110531.1 works of course with new 10070 HW)
Thank you very much tinhead about nice work!
I hope that the company Hantek also like to thank and appreciate the work you've done.
you welcome.
You mean is it time to ask for free Hantek Handheld DSO ? Or maybe one of the new DSO5000BMV series?
Probably i should, support costs always money. However, they know my address and my real name, so up to them.
tinhead
Do you know what toolchain they used in hantek? I'm still trying to run chroot on scope.
tinhead
Do you know what toolchain they used in hantek? I'm still trying to run chroot on scope.
i tell you something, with different linux you will probably get some issues with lcd , definitely with usb,
we don't know the i/o nor memory mapping of cpld and fpga ... so we running blind.
If you need to compile kernel modules for this board, a good starting point is QQ2440 2.6.13 toolchain, gcc 2.95.3 OABI
(however i complied mtd utils with 3.4.1 EABI). A good idea is to look for firendlyarm2440, mini2440, qq2440, tq2440 boards
and 2.6.13 sources/cross toolchains, many things are already really ancient but you will still find them
(someone posted in this thread link for Q2440 sources).
This will work for all things except new hardware like wifi-sticks (ok, there are some working exceptions).
There is no problem with usb or lcd, framebuffer test works, I can display anything on screen. I can't make busybox or other binutils working. Then I whant to put X11 on screen and run some soft with GUI
Now I know that they use crosstool-0.27 gcc 2.3.2 and glibc 3.4.1 to Fedora Core 4 system (: oh source code could save lot of time, How did you know about "rgj" developer?
i tell you something, with different linux you will probably get some issues with lcd , definitely with usb,Haven't you tried to determine this?
we don't know the i/o nor memory mapping of cpld and fpga ... so we running blind.
Haven't you tried to determine this?
Most likely the peripherals are occupying whole memory banks (nGCS#x) for simplicity. One memory bank of S4C2440 is 128M, and it is quite probbale that the DSO's memory is just mapped to S3C2440's address space. Another memory bank may be used for control registers ant it may be that only 2-3 least significant bits are used while MSBs are completely ignored, resulting in 4-8 io ports occupying the whole 128M bank.
Did you make any other hires photos of the board with components unsoldered?
May be we can run the kernel debugger?
I launch TTScope and it connects to the scope but it says: "No exsit [sic] configuration files to this machine!", whatever that means. The only thing that seems to work is the "Auto Set" function from the Setup list.
PS: I rather shoot myself in the foot than trying to replace a PB-free BGA. Thanks for the warning.
Hantek sent me a list of timebase setting versus digitiser speed, and it's a bit strange, but obviously trying to get around some sort of hardware limitations.
Thanks again for the improved language file, that really does help to make using the machine nicer. It's a shame that Hantek/Tekway couldn't do that in the first place... It doesn't look like they will ever admit they need some help.
I am trying to see what a modern DSO input stage looks like: the most modern schematic I have found so far is from the Tek 2232 (June 1992 !).Well, I think that you can consider yourself lucky, since I have just posted(!) the Rigol DS1052E HW58 (2011 March PCB revision) Channel 1 analog front-end schematics (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=4048.msg53676#msg53676), while trying to troubleshoot my device (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3738.0)!
You are welcome!
But the credit goes to Tinhead, since his work has been an inspiration for many of us.
-George
When I see so many talented people struggling to make such proprietary DSOs work as expected, despite language, culture and manufacturer's short term-only vision, and put so many efforts in it, I am now sure it is worth trying to develop a decent open source/hardware DSO!
Tinhead, if in the window “Display” press F4 (Format XY) oscilloscope hangs and stops responding to all buttons. You can only revive the Power button (re-enable).
Do You encountered this error?
Mmmmh - first bug found where the scope always crashes??
· Press button "Display"
· Choosing XY instead of YT immediately chrashes my scope.
Can somebody verify that this crash happens everywhere?
yes, i noticed it too. It does have something to do with an overflow during channel activation.
However it works perfect if you enable (just turn on, it does not matter if then on AC/DC/GND) both channels
or actually disable (turn off) both channels before you enable XY mode.
A small bug only, normally you will anyway enable both channels, setup coupling etc. before you go to XY.
I noticed in this picture these 3 strange new unpopulated footprints between the AD8370/LMH6552 and the AD8510... Really looks like a crystal with foot capacitors layout, but I am sure this can't be the case.hehe, no not for cristal, probably temp sensor, however we should track back these pins.
Still, I don't understand the lack of current limiting resistor for the OptoMos: this device is a Cosmo KAQY214S solid-state relay with MOSFet output, with a max forward voltage of 1.5 V, and max forward current of 5 mA.oh there is one,
Also, although I may understand the reason why the input capacitor before the JFET and the dual BAV99 diodes is angled at 45 degrees to shorten the trace in this particularly sensitive area, however I don't understand why Tekway also angled all the AD8370/LMH6552 stuff this way? Is this to stress their pick-and-place machine? ;D
Do not keep any signal connected to scope when you on or off oscilloscope power.
...In a good design, I would recommend:
Ok, go to do some (imagined) industrial service work with this. So, that you example try find some problems in situation where all systems are running with full speed... then you keep your scope connected and watching... and there come lunch time... you shut off your scope... (or come back and shut on) one PID loop swings from one end to one end... after ten seconds whole system is short time heavy disturbed, alarm rings and paper breaks... oh...thank you Hantek... it was only some tens of kilo euro. (imagined worst case scenario ;) )
(this is one reason why Agilent (oh maybe I'm wrong and need say, old Hewlett-Packard) or Tektronix professional series instrumets (not hobby series) are very cheap in use.)[/size]
- to put a 2kV spark gap at the input, with very good path to ground for ESD protection, see Dave's videos if you are not sure what I am talking about :o
- to provide a normally-open GND coupling relay at the input, which would physically disconnect the device under test when the scope is turned off and during start-up transients, to avoid any harm to it, or don't go out for lunch during tests ;D
right, the input is never ever really off.
replace all these cheap relays/optoMOS by more adequate models
replace BAV99 diodes
replace the 2 BC846 transistor for current mirror by at least a matched pair (BC846B)that's already matched pair of BC846B (actually you don't have to much them today anymore)
replace the AD8310/LMH6552/VariCap by the LMH6518 abovefor what? Actually you mean AD8370 and not 8310 (or you mean the AD8510 in LF path?)
straighten the signal trace as much as possiblehmm, it is stight, then 45° to first opamp then again stright ... the only think i don't like
keep the signal trace as short as possible and away from other tracesthat would be complettly new PCB, much bigger anyway. Hantek/Tekway did it anyway better
I am trying to see what a modern DSO input stage looks like: the most modern schematic I have found so far is from the Tek 2232 (June 1992 !).There's a more modern service manual for the Tek TDS520 available, I think on tek.com. Not exactly modern, but fairly detailed.
Really? Do you have more details on this? Maybe pictures, schematic of it? I am really interested!well both, but i can't publish as they has been created by someone else who don't wish to publish them,
This can't be, you have to do anti-aliasing filtering before sampling, not after. Maybe you mean that filtering is controlled by firmware?no you don't, or not in form of what you interpreted from the schematics. It is hard to say what exactly Rigol/Atten/Instek/UNI-T/Tonghui are doing within the firmware because nobody (yet) reversed it. However it is simple to reverse Hantek/Tekway
Unfortunately, Tek schematics are only block level after the Tek 2232, so is the TDS520 :-\Really? Have you checked? The document is called 'TDS 520B Mod CM Digitizing Oscilloscope Component Service Manual', and those schematics don't look like block level to me.
that would be complettly new PCB, much bigger anyway. Hantek/Tekway did it anyway better
(they have at least better shielding) than Rigol/ATTEN where the PSU is so close to ADCs/Trigger
stage/1MSs-500MSs relays that you have already influence.
EDIT: Actually, I found the "Component Level Service Manual"on an exotic websitetek.com is exotic?
but not really useful: Tek was already using hybrid modules for the analog front-end, thanks anyway :-\That's a modern DSO for you ;). Lots of custom silicon, even more today than back then. This helps decreasing footprint and costs, and increasing performance. Some SMT passives on FR-4 just doesn't cut it for good HF performance.
I could only find the "Module Level Service Manual" there, I had to search for TDS520 "component level" service manual in order to find it somewhere else.A search for tds520b on tek.com finds this (http://www2.tek.com/cmswpt/madetails.lotr?ct=MA&cs=msv&ci=9971&lc=EN).
The Tek 2232 was probably one of the latestAgreed, you learn more from studying the older technology, but it's not how a modern DSO is build. Just like a modern consumer widget often consists of a blob of epoxy on a phenolic PCB.
As hobbyists, we have no access to either Hybrids or analog ASICs, so both the "old" Tek 2232 and these cheap low-end DSOs are interesting to look at.
Well, that's confusing: for a single ADC, you need to meet was is known as the "Nyquist criterion", see Wikipedia ...
But what I am saying is only good when you have a single ADC...
As there are up to 10 of them, they can be clocked so that each one is sampling with a calibrated period that is 1/10 of the sampling period, thus achieving an effective sampling frequency of 1 GHz. Then, by digital reconstruction, you are able to get a 1 GSPS resolution digital signal, that you can THEN filter digitally to whatever you want below that.
And in this case, I really don't know if what I said for a single ADC is still valid, or if aliasing "magically" cancels itself by using several of them working with such a clock scheme, only requiring a max signal frequency of 1 GHz/2=500 MHz...
I think, Hnatek need immediately solve this design bug. If there need boot time cal connection it need solve different way.
500 ohm directly from CH1 to CH2 center whole boot up time!
Maybe 2/3 of the boot time is the OS coming up. After that, the DSO app is run.
I have not observed any scope related state changes, prior to DSO running. This
leads me to believe that the problem is caused by the initial state of the shift register,
controlling the relay. Hantek should have added a tristate control, and pullup/down resistors
to all of the outputs, so the controls could be set to a knows state, prior to software initialization.
Looking at tinhead's (very handy) schematic, it appears that we may be able to force the
shift register to clear, by adding a RCD circuit to the SRCLR pin.
Just curious if anyone else is experiencing this behavior? If I power-on my
Hantek, with a USB stick installed (front port), the stick is not recognized by the
DSO application. The OS, however, does see the stick, and auto-mounts it.
I need to unplug the stick, and re-insert, before the scope will flag it's presence.