Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 495550 times)

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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2650 on: July 20, 2018, 02:16:22 pm »
Thanks, Joe. Will keep my eyes peeled.
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Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2651 on: July 20, 2018, 07:17:40 pm »
Nicely done as usual Joe! :-+  We can forget this one as a newbie best buy.. I'll post a link to his channel and see what he says.
*edit - He may not want to promote it in his "store" anymore. I was thinking about 3 of these as disposables but shipping to Canada doubles the cost, so yeah - I think not. Thanks for a really big sheww..!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 11:03:20 pm by Cliff Matthews »
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2652 on: July 21, 2018, 06:06:13 am »
Nicely done as usual Joe! :-+  We can forget this one as a newbie best buy.. I'll post a link to his channel and see what he says.
*edit - He may not want to promote it in his "store" anymore. I was thinking about 3 of these as disposables but shipping to Canada doubles the cost, so yeah - I think not. Thanks for a really big sheww..!

I read your post.  Here is a partial list if what I see as the MK01A's shortcomings:

  • Battery can be installed incorrectly.  Even the UT61E has different dimensions in the battery holder for the pos/neg. 
  • There are no captive tabs on the large fuse holder to keep it in place if the meter is dropped.   The case also has nothing in the molding to secure it.   
  • When ramping the 10A current input, the supplied leads failed before the 10A fuse blew.
  • I'm not even sure what to say about the glowing small fuse.  Well, it was a cheap unfilled ceramic body.  The type Fungus does not believe exist.  :-DD
  • Capacitance will not zero out without adding an external capacitor. 
  • Very slow auto ranging for a moderate sized capacitor.   The same for lower value resistors.
  • When in AC mode, selecting frequency will require a zero cross for the meter to read it. 
  • When in AC mode, cases like a a full wave rectified signal that is unfiltered can not be read.   
  • When in AC mode, is the input is and AC waveform with a DC bias, the meter may not display the correct value.  In my setup I show the meter reading between 4 volts and 42 volts.
  • When in DC mode, if the the input is an AC waveform with a DC bias,  the meter will not display the correct value.
  • In frequency mode, the meter appears to be susceptible to 3KHz and will display low battery.
  • With a 180MHz 20dBm signal (roughly 3V), the meter will display more than 50 volts.
  • Why do they put the vias in the rotary switch pads?   
  • The mA lead was not soldered.  There were no signs that the solder had wicked to the terminal. 
  • The stupid little piezo grill starter killed it.  The only meters that are damaged by that are UNI-Ts and the lowest of the low.  If the gun had killed it, I may have been alright with it but no, its the test that hardly does anything.   


Also, I have updated the spreadsheet to include this meter.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2018, 06:22:56 am by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
The following users thanked this post: MacMeter

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2653 on: July 21, 2018, 07:43:18 am »
Since a "real review" now exists, maybe I should remove those comments? As y'all know, I preview a lot of channels for sharing and I've seen of lot of "staged pro's" (in Spanish and English) and this guy's OK. Any care to opine with a yea or nay?
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2654 on: July 21, 2018, 07:54:07 am »
Shame on both of you for taking the time to destroy a man's way of living with blatantly useless reviews...  :-DD

I have some carefully crafted design decisions for you:

Nicely done as usual Joe! :-+  We can forget this one as a newbie best buy.. I'll post a link to his channel and see what he says.
*edit - He may not want to promote it in his "store" anymore. I was thinking about 3 of these as disposables but shipping to Canada doubles the cost, so yeah - I think not. Thanks for a really big sheww..!

I read your post.  Here is a partial list if what I see as the MK01A's shortcomings:

  • Battery can be installed incorrectly.  Even the UT61E has different dimensions in the battery holder for the pos/neg. If the user is not paying attention, he doesn't deserve a METERK!
  • There are no captive tabs on the large fuse holder to keep it in place if the meter is dropped.   The case also has nothing in the molding to secure it. Again, if you can't take care of your things, you don't deserve a METERK!
  • When ramping the 10A current input, the supplied leads failed before the 10A fuse blew. Ultimate input protection against arc flash!
  • I'm not even sure what to say about the glowing small fuse.  Well, it was a cheap unfilled ceramic body.  The type Fungus does not believe exist.  :-DD You are never satisfied, are you? Hey, at least is ceramic and not glass cheapies.
  • Capacitance will not zero out without adding an external capacitor.  Well, in order to use the capacitance meter you would need one capacitor anyways... What is the problem in adding one more?
  • Very slow auto ranging for a moderate sized capacitor.   The same for lower value resistors. Youngsters are so impatient these days...  :palm:
  • When in AC mode, selecting frequency will require a zero cross for the meter to read it.  A METERK! is designed for the audiophile crowd that tolerates only absolute purity on their sinewaves.
  • When in AC mode, cases like a a full wave rectified signal that is unfiltered can not be read. Exactly. How dare you submit a METERK! to such impure waveform?!? Blasphemy!
  • When in AC mode, is the input is and AC waveform with a DC bias, the meter may not display the correct value.  In my setup I show the meter reading between 4 volts and 42 volts. Read the two above.
  • When in DC mode, if the the input is an AC waveform with a DC bias,  the meter will not display the correct value. I don't know why you insist in feed the METERK! with such impurities... I think you are trying to corrupt its soul.
  • In frequency mode, the meter appears to be susceptible to 3KHz and will display low battery. This is to inform the user he is finally crossing the upper bandwidth of that impure audio system called POTS and entering a new dimension in audiophile domain.
  • With a 180MHz 20dBm signal (roughly 3V), the meter will display more than 50 volts. That frequency is too much even for the purest audiophile domain.
  • Why do they put the vias in the rotary switch pads?  You are not as famous as Dave yet. :)
  • The mA lead was not soldered.  There were no signs that the solder had wicked to the terminal. That shouldn't block the user from moving forward. Basic soldering skills for the hobbyist are critical for a solid career.
  • The stupid little piezo grill starter killed it.  The only meters that are damaged by that are UNI-Ts and the lowest of the low.  If the gun had killed it, I may have been alright with it but no, its the test that hardly does anything.   Shame on you for subjecting a METERK! to these abominations!


Also, I have updated the spreadsheet to include this meter.


Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2655 on: July 21, 2018, 08:11:12 am »
Since a "real review" now exists, maybe I should remove those comments? As y'all know, I preview a lot of channels for sharing and I've seen of lot of "staged pro's" (in Spanish and English) and this guy's OK. Any care to opine with a yea or nay?

Does it matter?  If you would like me to remove the screen capture, feel free to ask.   I really didn't see a problem with any of it.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2656 on: July 21, 2018, 08:13:30 am »
Nor me Joe, I review another Keysight guys channel's speaking in Portañol too..  :-DD (at least that's how it sounds to me..)
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2657 on: July 21, 2018, 08:13:47 am »
Shame on both of you for taking the time to destroy a man's way of living with blatantly useless reviews...  :-DD

I have some carefully crafted design decisions for you:

It's all so clear now!!  :-DD 



 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2658 on: July 21, 2018, 08:23:09 am »
I review another Keysight guys channel's speaking in Portañol too..  :-DD (at least that's how it sounds to me..)

The only thing that caught my eye with your posts was their first response where they write "I said "for low voltage home hobby"", yet they demonstrated the meter attached to the mains without a care in the world.   I guess they have never seen a large transient on their lines.    Oh, that's right, the upstream fuses, transformer and lines limit the energy.  That is until your tree gets hit and bypasses the whole mess.   :-DD
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2659 on: July 21, 2018, 09:21:11 am »
I review another Keysight guys channel's speaking in Portañol too..  :-DD (at least that's how it sounds to me..)

The only thing that caught my eye with your posts was their first response where they write "I said "for low voltage home hobby"", yet they demonstrated the meter attached to the mains without a care in the world.   I guess they have never seen a large transient on their lines.    Oh, that's right, the upstream fuses, transformer and lines limit the energy.  That is until your tree gets hit and bypasses the whole mess.   :-DD
Now who knows about transients like Lightning Joe?
(something tells me by now, you've got hockey-puck size GDT's in your electrical panel..)
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2660 on: July 21, 2018, 10:56:25 am »
Nor me Joe, I review another Keysight guys channel's speaking in Portañol too..  :-DD (at least that's how it sounds to me..)
Who is that, Cliff? I would love to take a look at the video.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2661 on: July 21, 2018, 11:52:25 am »
Nicely done as usual Joe! :-+  We can forget this one as a newbie best buy.. I'll post a link to his channel and see what he says.
*edit - He may not want to promote it in his "store" anymore. I was thinking about 3 of these as disposables but shipping to Canada doubles the cost, so yeah - I think not. Thanks for a really big sheww..!

I read your post.  Here is a partial list if what I see as the MK01A's shortcomings:

  • Battery can be installed incorrectly.  Even the UT61E has different dimensions in the battery holder for the pos/neg. 
  • There are no captive tabs on the large fuse holder to keep it in place if the meter is dropped.   The case also has nothing in the molding to secure it.   
  • When ramping the 10A current input, the supplied leads failed before the 10A fuse blew.
  • I'm not even sure what to say about the glowing small fuse.  Well, it was a cheap unfilled ceramic body.  The type Fungus does not believe exist.  :-DD
  • Capacitance will not zero out without adding an external capacitor. 
  • Very slow auto ranging for a moderate sized capacitor.   The same for lower value resistors.
  • When in AC mode, selecting frequency will require a zero cross for the meter to read it. 
  • When in AC mode, cases like a a full wave rectified signal that is unfiltered can not be read.   
  • When in AC mode, is the input is and AC waveform with a DC bias, the meter may not display the correct value.  In my setup I show the meter reading between 4 volts and 42 volts.
  • When in DC mode, if the the input is an AC waveform with a DC bias,  the meter will not display the correct value.
  • In frequency mode, the meter appears to be susceptible to 3KHz and will display low battery.
  • With a 180MHz 20dBm signal (roughly 3V), the meter will display more than 50 volts.
  • Why do they put the vias in the rotary switch pads?   
  • The mA lead was not soldered.  There were no signs that the solder had wicked to the terminal. 
  • The stupid little piezo grill starter killed it.  The only meters that are damaged by that are UNI-Ts and the lowest of the low.  If the gun had killed it, I may have been alright with it but no, its the test that hardly does anything.   


Also, I have updated the spreadsheet to include this meter.

Thanks, Joe. You've developed quite the suite of functionality tests. Great job catching several issues that, until your video, I hadn't seen anyone else mention about this DMM.
EEVblog is the place to be for TEA.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2662 on: July 21, 2018, 07:03:30 pm »
...
  • I'm not even sure what to say about the glowing small fuse.  Well, it was a cheap unfilled ceramic body.  The type Fungus does not believe exist.  :-DD

I believe!  \$\Omega\$
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 02:59:00 am by Fungus »
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2663 on: July 22, 2018, 01:54:53 am »
Thanks, Joe. You've developed quite the suite of functionality tests. Great job catching several issues that, until your video, I hadn't seen anyone else mention about this DMM.

The testing has definitely evolved into more of a review compared to just running the one transient test.  The time involved now to look at a good meter can be several days but a side effect is I don't look at too many meters now.         

I responded to people who asked me about running the 121GW that I thought maybe a year after the kick start I would have a look.  That's only what, four months away and it looks like they still have not shipped all of the units and they still have some of the problems that I saw in the preproduction unit.   I assume that this is partly why we have not seen an announcement for a release date.

...
  • I'm not even sure what to say about the glowing small fuse.  Well, it was a cheap unfilled ceramic body.  The type Fungus does not believe exist.  :-DD
I believe!  \$\Omega\$
:-DD :-DD  I couldn't let you sit on the sidelines. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2664 on: July 22, 2018, 03:43:05 am »
I havn't seen a post like this in a while.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2665 on: July 22, 2018, 04:17:10 am »
I havn't seen a post like this in a while.

“who in their right mind.....?”

I’ll answer that;

LIGHTNING JOE, that’s who!!!
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2666 on: July 22, 2018, 04:27:28 am »
Man, that is probably part of the crowd that can only read headlines and does not go past the second paragraph.

That gives me one additional suggestion for a test: connect the meter to the coil pins of a 120VDC relay (or any large inductor) and scratch its leads on a DC source. That could maybe convince this person that a real-world scenario could damage his beloved cheapie.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2667 on: July 22, 2018, 04:34:03 am »
When I have seen where people have posted about damaging their meters, I will take the time to ask what happened.  I am really interested if they damaged the front end.  Not that I am trying to embarrass them but to see if there is some new test I should consider.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2668 on: July 22, 2018, 05:12:03 am »
I can just picture Joe, standing in front of a struck tree, looking at it for a while. And then, with a mocking smile on his face, he looks up and say quietly:"Challenge accepted ....."  :-DD

Yeah, people don't have a clue. I live in a city, even high voltage distribution is underground, and electric network really does damp things a lot..
But as you go few kilometers off the city centre, it gets waaay more dangerous.. Appliances and electronics go "poooof" all the time.

Regards
Sinisa
 

Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2669 on: July 22, 2018, 05:39:30 am »
The Mertek ended quite soon as many uni-t's, by the ESD. The video was very elaborated and to be honest maybe the expectations were worse, like failing at the rectified 230V on the temperature / mV range.

If are starting and wanna test  some circuits to 230V or 110V use back to back transformers to isolate, reduce the amount of energy from the mains. This transformers can be found from older power bricks |O cell phone , game consoles, cordless phones power which didn't use switched power supplies.

If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline HKJ

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2670 on: July 22, 2018, 05:41:07 am »
That lightning hit was only a minor hit, all the wires stayed in the walls.  >:D
When lightning hits close by stuff like CAT rating do not mean much, you might get a million volts and lots of kA.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2671 on: July 22, 2018, 05:56:35 am »
The Mertek ended quite soon as many uni-t's, by the ESD. The video was very elaborated and to be honest maybe the expectations were worse, like failing at the rectified 230V on the temperature / mV range.

If are starting and wanna test  some circuits to 230V or 110V use back to back transformers to isolate, reduce the amount of energy from the mains. This transformers can be found from older power bricks |O cell phone , game consoles, cordless phones power which didn't use switched power supplies.

It's not even so much that it was damaged by the ESD as it was damaged by the do nothing grill starter ESD.    If you watch the first five minutes or so of this video, you can see how that  grill starter compares with my home made ESD gun and the IEC standards.     



How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2672 on: July 22, 2018, 09:12:31 am »
Hi there.

That gives the clarity of the pulse from the various devices and some sort of levels. I remember this from the uni-t ut-181A , this video that you shared looks like a follow-up . I might be wrong...  Is that what you're ESD gun is replicating towards the IEC regarding EMC, but with lower energy?




The spark at 7:56 of the video reminds me the arc mosquito zapper, but much powerfull, looks like when you get zapped also on your car by static discharge... 



If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2673 on: July 22, 2018, 10:34:43 am »
I havn't seen a post like this in a while.

I wouldn't be surprised that there are actually many more who think that way. They just don't bother to post.
EEVblog is the place to be for TEA.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2674 on: July 22, 2018, 10:54:31 am »
Hi there.

That gives the clarity of the pulse from the various devices and some sort of levels. I remember this from the uni-t ut-181A , this video that you shared looks like a follow-up . I might be wrong...  Is that what you're ESD gun is replicating towards the IEC regarding EMC, but with lower energy?

Yes, it was a follow up to the 181A.   I had enough people send me comments that the grill started was not realistic, so I decided to attempt to follow the IEC waveforms.   Yes it's a little on the weak side still.  I did go back and test every meter I had (that was working and had survived the grill starter) using the new gun.  Every one of them survived. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 


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