Handheld meter robustness testing

[rsjsouza]

To be honest, I don't believe so.  I see a lot of car analogies posted that go something like: 

"Wait, you just put 2000 volts across a meter that is clearly marked 600volts.  That would be like driving your car into a brick wall at 100 MPH and expecting it to be fine. 
 

I suspect they don't use this analogy for your rotary switch tests...

The crash tests do not test a car's limits, but instead the integrity of its occupants. The CAT rating test is closer to it but more stringent: the user cannot have any injury at all.

You test a meter's limits - similar to redline a car and see what rpm it will take for the engine to fail. This will give an indication of the tolerances a meter can withstand.

Your stupid."        

I love when people butcher the language when trying to call someone stupid...

[malagas_on_fire]

   

https://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ve/MLV-489152168-multimetro-tester-fluke-189-para-repuesto-_JM

Well that meter looks like it got a drop test or truck test, so one less do be done :DD ...

Grill starter? I think it was the grill related to the microhave transformer, a CRT tube or stun gun. Very low energy sources indeed... and precautions.

[joeqsmith]

I haven't received too many comments on the switch life cycle testing.  The majority have to do with it not representing a real human.  Which is very true and I am always reminded of the time I loaned out my CEM meter and the person actually turned the switch past the dead stop.  One of this forums member's recently provided me with some pictures of a couple of Keysight meters from where they work.  They have a rubber coating on the knob and it has started to come off.   They look really bad. 

I'm not sure I could come up with a good analogy for the transient tests.   I would rather people not try and relate it to something that it's not. 

A meter is a final product, a cars engine is a sub component.  Of course the meter's front end is made up of subcomponents which really is the area I am interested in.   A driver could easily hold the accelerator to the floor with the car out of gear and see what happens.  There's no outside test equipment needed.  Just the driver.   The operator of a meter can't just turn the knob to transient mode and see if their meter self destructs.   Instead they need to do things like attempt to directly measure the output voltage of their gas grill ignitor.   

[joeqsmith]

Grill starter? I think it was the grill related to the microhave transformer, a CRT tube or stun gun. Very low energy sources indeed... and precautions.

MOT will not net them 20KV.  He said it happened at work.  I would think fairly low energy as well.  Maybe he will respond.

[mqsaharan]

If you do decide to run it, may I request to review it first, like you did with UT181A, with commentary about its front end, its hardware/software design and its working.
And if not may I still request a full review.

Regards,
Qasim.

[joeqsmith]

Qasim,  as I mentioned, I thought about making a full review when I received the first one.   There are several videos on YT showing the 189 and with it being replaced by the 189 II and then the 289, I didn't see much of a point to spending any time on it.   

I have two of these so if I make a video showing a junk 189 and there is something specific that you wanted to see beyond what I show, I could possibly setup one of these meters for you as long as the test was not destructive.   The one my friend gave me was used in more a mechanical environment and the case is a bit rough but the insides are like new.  I doubt it ever measured line voltages.  The second one is a little newer and is in very good condition.

These seem to be some of the popular videos on the 189.

[joeqsmith]

It was a HV power supply for a  display.   Make's sense from the video and how it looked.     

[malagas_on_fire]

I haven't received too many comments on the switch life cycle testing.  The majority have to do with it not representing a real human.  Which is very true and I am always reminded of the time I loaned out my CEM meter and the person actually turned the switch past the dead stop.  One of this forums member's recently provided me with some pictures of a couple of Keysight meters from where they work.  They have a rubber coating on the knob and it has started to come off.   They look really bad. 

I'm not sure I could come up with a good analogy for the transient tests.   I would rather people not try and relate it to something that it's not. 

A meter is a final product, a cars engine is a sub component.  Of course the meter's front end is made up of subcomponents which really is the area I am interested in.   A driver could easily hold the accelerator to the floor with the car out of gear and see what happens.  There's no outside test equipment needed.  Just the driver.   The operator of a meter can't just turn the knob to transient mode and see if their meter self destructs.   Instead they need to do things like attempt to directly measure the output voltage of their gas grill ignitor.

A rotary switch test for one of the pocket meters . About the Agilent / Keysight welll, here is the result of use and abuse... The rubber coating long gone:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kwFDBmJrwJNuj6kE6

And it's recent sucessor B is also starting to wear off:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RnyqrJofTbaow6er7

They do work fine but that is not very pretty

[bitseeker]

I don't know how the switch could be left in that deteriorating state for so long. I'd have removed the rest of the rubberized coating long before it got to looking like that 1251A.

[joeqsmith]

I don't know how the switch could be left in that deteriorating state for so long. I'd have removed the rest of the rubberized coating long before it got to looking like that 1251A.

That's what the person tried to do with that one Fluke for sale.      What a mess.   

Under 2 days left, sitting steady at $50.  Wonder how much they bid.   Wonder if the seller bid on it.   

[mqsaharan]

Qasim,  as I mentioned, I thought about making a full review when I received the first one.   There are several videos on YT showing the 189 and with it being replaced by the 189 II and then the 289, I didn't see much of a point to spending any time on it.   

I have two of these so if I make a video showing a junk 189 and there is something specific that you wanted to see beyond what I show, I could possibly setup one of these meters for you as long as the test was not destructive.   The one my friend gave me was used in more a mechanical environment and the case is a bit rough but the insides are like new.  I doubt it ever measured line voltages.  The second one is a little newer and is in very good condition.

These seem to be some of the popular videos on the 189.

Hi Joe,
Thanks for the links. I remember watching the first one quite some time ago and I got bored right in the beginning and ended up fast forwarding most of the video. This time I skipped the beginning and watched the meter testing part again. You are right. There isn't much of a point in making yet another review video like that. Of course, here's your multimeter. If you like the face and the specs, get one. In a video you can see, hear the meter working. The technology isn't advanced yet to smell it too. But at least you get the feel of it.
The thing that I like about your videos is that you go farther than just basic show off. You functional test it at more points than the thing is described for in data sheet. How it actually respond to the signals that one encounter in (normal/special) use. It tells a bit more about the accuracy and capability of the meter. And then comes your famous robustness test.
I like your transient testing very much. Tells a lot more about the effort that has gone into designing the product and its safe operation. I know, you have said it numerous times, you are not checking their safety but your test ensures that too.

Please note that I am not forcing you to review it. As you have already mentioned it, its an old product, has been superseded by its successors. I asked for it only because you were already thinking about it, so I just wanted to put another vote there on the yes side.

Regards,
Qasim.

[joeqsmith]

Qasim,

I think there are people who actually do feel they can control the channel but it never seems to work out.     I'm not even sure what it would take for someone to force me to do something.  Hostages maybe.     Now if UNI-T wanted to me to run a brand new UT181B that addresses my concerns and they were willing to send a couple to me knowing full well what I would do with them,  I may have to take them up on it.     Likewise, Gossen could reach out to me with an improved version of the Ultra and I would be willing to give it another shot.    That's how you could force me but I don't think I have much to worry about.  My channel is small and it seems Brymen is really the only company interested in the tests.     

I just don't have a reason to watch feel good reviews like the first one.  I liked some of Dave's early reviews and found them to be very entertaining.  I adopted his 220V AC line test, with a twist.  That was about the only electrical stress test I saw any reviewer's performing and he was the only one.    When Dave made the video with his friend using the transient generator, I thought now you are on the right path.   Forget swimming with the meters and dropping them off the bridge.   

It's really the lack of electrical testing in these feel good reviews that got me interested in running my own tests.  That and comments like, "A free HF meter is as good as a Fluke".   I wanted to run tests that I saw damage my own equipment.  Low energy, high voltage.  Switch failure has been a problem, so I started to life cycle a few.  Chemical spray has got me before, so you see it now in some of my tests.   Again, I do it for myself but just make the videos to try and share what I find.  I'm better now about talking on camera but really have no interest in that part of it. 

Ever since my friend gave me his Fluke 189,  I have been curious how it would hold up.  For me, it's just such a nice general purpose meter like that BM869s.  I like it so much, I ended up finding a second one in very good condition.   You can count on me running one at some point and showing things like reverse engineering the front end and transient testing. 

It may be sooner than you think.  I need to get my $70 ready ... 

[malagas_on_fire]

Hi there.

At least the Fluke 189 doesn't have rubber on the rotary switch that come off after some years of usage... About the exterior case that's another story...

[rsjsouza]

Joe, I have a similar feeling about the "feel good" tests - I wonder if that is to get dopamine rush by folks validating their purchase. That or to advertise the meter on their online shop (I think it was you that mentioned that). As an example, one channel I loosely follow did recently a test on the ZT301 (AN8008 clone) and the meter had, straight out of the box, bad contacts on the rotary switch. He dismissed saying it was "normal" and gave a thumbs up to the meter. Oh well...

[joeqsmith]

The format is always something like this:

Thank's Banggood for sending me this product.  It's very accurate (of course without actually using it).  Thumbs up.  I will continue to use it.  Once again, thanks Banggood for providing me this product and thanks to all of my Patreon subscribers.  If you're not already a subscriber, please consider it.  Even a dollar a month will help me to continue to make great videos like this.   

I assume the idea is to try and maximize profits.  Free products to review, so no need to validate their purchases.  Of course everything gets a thumbs up.  That's what someone in sales does!   

Looks like my competition is heating up. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FLUKE-189-TRUE-RMS-MULTIMETER-WITH-LEADS-AND-BAG-FOR-PARTS-OR-REPAIR/263878907548?hash=item3d7068969c:g:hjoAAOSwxnlbcyeV

[IanB]

When I'm critical of the 121GW everyone is telling me I am expecting too much, or I am not using it under the right conditions. So what is a reviewer to do? 

[2N3055]

When I'm critical of the 121GW everyone is telling me I am expecting too much, or I am not using it under the right conditions. So what is a reviewer to do? 

Somebody asked that same question in DS7000 topic.
Answer is always the same: Check your findings twice so you are sure you are right. Than tell it like it is. But politely, in a civilized tone.  Enumerate pros and cons. Round it up and that's all you can do.
Making a good, rounded review is not easy.
On topic of expecting too much: If it's in a datasheet, it should work, up to spec. If datasheet has declared a functionality that functionality has to work and be usable.
No more, no less.

[malagas_on_fire]

Hi there

What about doing a robustness test on a fluke tester or voltage detector?

Example for the Fluke tester :

fluke 1651b test meter  https://ebay.us/pPhBFu

Voltage detectors:

UNI-T UT15C Waterproof Type Voltage Testers New #UNIT https://ebay.us/B6v0RG

Fluke T150 Voltage and Continuity Tester #Fluke https://ebay.us/QDYDJK

[joeqsmith]

There is a link to a spreadsheet in the very first post of the meters I have ran.  If you look there, you would find that I ran the UT15C some time ago.  There's even a video on-line showing the tests I ran on it.   I was wanting to see if any UNI-T branded product was robust and figure this was their best shot.  Look at the data, it did not perform very well.

I try to stay away from probes like the ones you show as I doubt many hobbyist use them.  I also try to stay away from the used market.  Running a Fluke 189 will be an exception to a rule I rarely break.

Less than a day left, 4 bids, $61.  That's six of those METERKs I just ran.   

[malagas_on_fire]

Thanks for the update.

Yeah another CAT overated product but not bad for a UNI-T that was not modified. Yeah that 189 if it survives will be  more usefull than 6 MERTEK's, since it has logging capability.

[joeqsmith]

At $61, they could buy a brand new UNI-T UT61E with data logging and a free battery and still have enough money left for some cheap fuses.     

[bitseeker]

But the UT61E still wouldn't be Fluke yellow.

[joeqsmith]

Dip it.   

https://www.amazon.com/Performix-11602-6-075815116024-Yellow-Plasti/dp/B000ZN1T16

[bitseeker]

Touché!

[malagas_on_fire]

And here is the rebranded model, yellowish ... Hope for the price is the GS model... Still gonna be done with grill starter and there goes the meter

https://pt.farnell.com/tenma/72-10415/dmm-handheld-auto-manual-4-5digit/dp/2499516