Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 531996 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline malagas_on_fire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 581
  • Country: pt
  • Kernel Panic
    • Malagas Lair
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2975 on: October 31, 2018, 10:21:36 pm »
High voltage in DMM,  would be around what manuals ( Safety Information ) of  describe on the first pages to be aware of probe techniques to prevent hazards, starting at 30Vrms or 60Vdc .  Tthe meter could have a LED  of the HV or starts beeping a lot...

 

If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5734
  • Country: us
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2976 on: October 31, 2018, 11:03:49 pm »
It's the best lube out there, but very expensive.

Like I haven't heard that one before.   :-DD 

When I see something hold up as well on that 50,000 cycle life test than the Fluke 17B+'s dry contacts, I will surely let people know.  I would rather see a properly designed switch than spend my time searching for the world's best lubrication. 


How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5734
  • Country: us
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2977 on: October 31, 2018, 11:12:35 pm »
High voltage in DMM,  would be around what manuals ( Safety Information ) of  describe on the first pages to be aware of probe techniques to prevent hazards, starting at 30Vrms or 60Vdc .  Tthe meter could have a LED  of the HV or starts beeping a lot...

Quote
The numerical definition of "high voltage" depends on context.
I tend to agree with their opening sentence.  In the context of a handheld DMM normal use, I lean more towards what you wrote and the wiki section on safety. 

When I test meters, I talk about my low voltage transient generator.  It's 6KV which may seem like a lot but in the context of the transients I can generate, it falls way short of the 15KV I tested the Fluke 107 at.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline wasyoungonce

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 407
  • Country: au
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2978 on: October 31, 2018, 11:48:31 pm »
......Krytox GPL 105...................Used in Aerospace and MILSPEC..................

Good old Krytox...the only stuff we were allow to use on Aircraft oxygen systems.  Not cheap though.  But I suspect the Military sales markup was a few 1000%
I'd forget my Head if it wasn't screwed on!
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 581
  • Country: pt
  • Kernel Panic
    • Malagas Lair
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2979 on: November 01, 2018, 01:18:52 am »
High voltage in DMM,  would be around what manuals ( Safety Information ) of  describe on the first pages to be aware of probe techniques to prevent hazards, starting at 30Vrms or 60Vdc .  Tthe meter could have a LED  of the HV or starts beeping a lot...

Quote
The numerical definition of "high voltage" depends on context.
I tend to agree with their opening sentence.  In the context of a handheld DMM normal use, I lean more towards what you wrote and the wiki section on safety. 

When I test meters, I talk about my low voltage transient generator.  It's 6KV which may seem like a lot but in the context of the transients I can generate, it falls way short of the 15KV I tested the Fluke 107 at.   

Humm  i was out of context maybe or forcing it, assuming what comes first in the manuals and forgot the IEC standards , CAT ratings  that are also mentioned and adds to another section of high voltage surge.

About lubricants i don't have a concrete opinion, but follow the recommended stuff as in mechanical parts by the brand
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline floobydust

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2885
  • Country: ca
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2980 on: November 01, 2018, 02:27:17 am »
It's the best lube out there, but very expensive.
Like I haven't heard that one before.   :-DD 
When I see something hold up as well on that 50,000 cycle life test than the Fluke 17B+'s dry contacts, I will surely let people know.  I would rather see a properly designed switch than spend my time searching for the world's best lubrication.

Strange, it wasn't dry (on the PCB) for the old 87:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/lube-dmm-selector-switch/msg1248833/#msg1248833
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5734
  • Country: us
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2981 on: November 01, 2018, 07:43:48 am »
It's the best lube out there, but very expensive.
Like I haven't heard that one before.   :-DD 
When I see something hold up as well on that 50,000 cycle life test than the Fluke 17B+'s dry contacts, I will surely let people know.  I would rather see a properly designed switch than spend my time searching for the world's best lubrication.

Strange, it wasn't dry (on the PCB) for the old 87:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/lube-dmm-selector-switch/msg1248833/#msg1248833
If we are talking about Fluke,  I am guessing that the grease is being used as a lubricant and not to increase the breakdown voltage.  I assume the meters are designed not to arc by design (creepage, clearance).    Again, a GUESS.  I am not presenting this as a fact! 

It's possible that the 17B+, being a newer design has a better switch design than the 87.  Better materials, spring tension, surface area, contacts, thickness......  The parts making up the 17B+ switch assembly even after the 50,000 cycles are still all in very good condition. 

You would think the 87V being what some consider the best meter mankind has ever created,  would have the best switch design.  Again it uses dry contacts.  19:00 - 27:00 may be of interest. 

https://youtu.be/dQPcAs0EEqY?t=1099

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
The following users thanked this post: Marco1971

Offline malagas_on_fire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 581
  • Country: pt
  • Kernel Panic
    • Malagas Lair
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2982 on: November 01, 2018, 12:47:02 pm »
Well the fluke 87V is one of the most known and referenced meters , for it's functions, but considering the best meter of mankind has ever made maybe it stay's on the time when it first got into market.  It's a very subjective matter.

Now there are more brands, and meters like brymen BM867s , Fluke 117+, keysight U1282A for example that have unique build quality features into it. I'd like to grab the keysight, put on it on a bag to my back, swim with that meter and of course let it dry a little bit to test measurement. 

If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 581
  • Country: pt
  • Kernel Panic
    • Malagas Lair
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2983 on: November 05, 2018, 10:49:55 pm »
Hi i found another feature or bug in one of my meters, it is the clamp meter uni-t 204A.. the one that is not true RMS... if it enters sleep mode and you wake up with any button it doesn't sleep anymore.... The other meters like bm235, ut139A they enter sleep mode ever ,and after awaken by buttons.

It is still on for hours doing the job of discharging the rechargeable 9V battery...  in volts range of course... Maybe i should open another thread....

If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5734
  • Country: us
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2984 on: November 28, 2018, 07:01:56 pm »
Three new handheld DMM videos in the works. 

With True never posting again, I had decided to run even more tests on the Brymen pocket meter.   That has been going nonstop since the first video was made.  I plan to repair one of the meters we damaged a long time ago and see if I can harden it.  And finally, I've had a few people requesting new meters be ran.  I've been watching reviews and picked one out.   All the reviews I saw for it from the big channels give it the old thumbs up.   Sorry, it's not the 121GW.

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
The following users thanked this post: tautech, gnavigator1007, MacMeter, Marco1971, malagas_on_fire

Offline malagas_on_fire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 581
  • Country: pt
  • Kernel Panic
    • Malagas Lair
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2985 on: November 28, 2018, 10:18:20 pm »
Hey new meters to be put on the run :P Are some anengish types?

Did you ever tester one of the Non-Contact Voltage Pen tester? Some of them claim CAT IV .... CATII .. 1000V or none..

Here are some examples:

CAT II:

https://ebay.us/bcEHuF

CATII:

https://ebay.us/xF6EeJ

CATiV ( Fluke):

https://ebay.us/qEjMiQ


There are lots of models.... and a mixed CAT ratings on them... and of course there is always a aneng...:

https://ebay.us/qEjMiQ

... with a proper CAT rating :P
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5734
  • Country: us
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2986 on: November 29, 2018, 02:49:50 am »
Hey new meters to be put on the run :P Are some anengish types?

This will be a brand I have not looked at yet.  There are many reviews and tear downs of it.  Lots of positive feedback.  Thing is, my transient generators don't seem to care about all of that.   

Did you ever tester one of the Non-Contact Voltage Pen tester? Some of them claim CAT IV .... CATII .. 1000V or none..

There is a link to an on-line spreadsheet in the very first post of this thread which contains data for every handheld meter I have looked at.  If it's not on that list, I have not ran it (except for one or two exceptions).   

How would you propose I would test these non-contact testers?    You know who would be a good person to run them would be John Ward.  He does a fair amount of electrical testing.    If PhotonicInduction were still making content, he would be another good source. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3402
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2987 on: November 29, 2018, 03:11:46 am »
Hey new meters to be put on the run :P Are some anengish types?

This will be a brand I have not looked at yet.  There are many reviews and tear downs of it.  Lots of positive feedback.  Thing is, my transient generators don't seem to care about all of that.   
A certain Japanese manufacturer?  ;D
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5734
  • Country: us
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2988 on: November 29, 2018, 03:25:57 am »
That's getting too specific.  You don't want to spoil the fun do you?   :-DD   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
The following users thanked this post: rsjsouza

Offline malagas_on_fire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 581
  • Country: pt
  • Kernel Panic
    • Malagas Lair
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2989 on: November 29, 2018, 11:29:41 am »
Hummm japanese meters... OK. i got it. :P  I saw some videos about on John ward about the voltage pen on the context of proofing no live connection as dubious. Photonic induction would pop them as in the video where he obliterates the screw pole tester and test a good isolated screw driver with a lot of voltage i believe 50Kv was the break point.

I don't see any non-contact voltage pen on the spreadsheet...

About the question about testing this voltage probe would be applying a transient between the probe point / tip and the casing or battery compartiment GND which should be high impedance  towards to the tip.

If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5734
  • Country: us
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2990 on: November 29, 2018, 12:38:41 pm »
There isn't any exposed metal on the tip or the battery compartment.   Are you wanting to know if the plastic is a good enough insulator?   There are a LOT of reviews for them and some decent documents.   

I'm not an electrician and have never used one, nor have I ever had the need.  I am also not setup to do any sort of electrical testing.  Another member asked once about testing surge protectors and small USB chargers.   I think there is still a fair bit of confusion about what is required to run some of the actual mains tests and how they compare with what I show.   I think if I ran any sort of tests on them, people would once again somehow equate it to safety of view it as some form of validation of the products certifications. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 581
  • Country: pt
  • Kernel Panic
    • Malagas Lair
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2991 on: November 29, 2018, 01:00:51 pm »
Thanks for the clarification. The battery compartiment is acessible for the user . I just received one. It's not about insulation but to know how a CAT rating is aplied  / tested to these devices if you or someone have any knowledge in this matter and the diversity of CAT ratings.  They are become more used on electricians here as well in home use. 


If persons equates things they can also read the FAQ which is well documented :P
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5734
  • Country: us
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2992 on: November 29, 2018, 01:36:09 pm »
Yes, the battery compartment is certainly accessible to the user, just like with any handheld meter.   Having the battery area exposed while using a device on the line may win you a Darwin award.   

I would imagine they are common here as well in the electrical world.  They would be much safer than jamming metal probes in things.  John Ward had made a video titled "Proving Dead - Mains Electricity".    May be worth watching.   Not being an electrician, I will leave the training videos to much more qualified people. 

Sadly, having documents available does not mean that people will read them. It's the same for the long videos.  I try (admit, not very good at it) to condense a lot of material into these long videos.  On average, a person will watch maybe 10% of it.   That's not a problem for me but I had one person argue with me for several posts about a video.  When they were unable to skim the 40-60 mins and find a specific part they became upset.   I have a low tolerance and may have flushed them.    :-DD
 
Two of the most common questions are: Have you ran ____? and Would you recommend ____?   No escaping those two.   :-DD
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 581
  • Country: pt
  • Kernel Panic
    • Malagas Lair
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2993 on: November 29, 2018, 02:40:33 pm »
Too bad not seeing the hole video and going for discussion without all the required data. The notepad  would do a good job on taking notes.
The first question may be become more popular to have you run these meter before or these product as i did with the NCV Pen's  . About recomendation yes a lot of people will ask recomendations due to the test made and clarification, but again it is described on the FAQ about recomendation. I remember "you saw what i end up buying"  on a meter , i believe on the uni-t 139c part II video.. not a recomendation but definitly a good choice for a meter..

I watched that video of John Ward , very good, and i quite liked the Fluke T110 Voltage tester, but it is a different product (maybe is most the proper one). About battery that is  correct for all multimeters, volt testers , more a suggestion / idea of how performing  CAT testing in DYI between GND and NCV probe, but with an NCV product like that how can CAT rating can be done? Maybe they have a proper test JIG for that kind of devices. With multimeter you use the banana plug , or adapters to positive and negative and...
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5734
  • Country: us
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2994 on: November 29, 2018, 06:11:40 pm »
Maybe they have their own standard.  You say you bought one.  Do they refer to any IEC standards on the packaging or manual?  This would be a good place to start if you want to learn more about how they are tested. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 581
  • Country: pt
  • Kernel Panic
    • Malagas Lair
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2995 on: November 29, 2018, 08:19:21 pm »
Well no manual supplied , no packaging. in the pen says to read the manual.... yeah that what i get.... the cheapo way, but i believe that is somewere the aneng model .:



The one i've bought is this.:

« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 08:24:42 pm by malagas_on_fire »
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline Vtile

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 986
  • Country: fi
  • Ingineer
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2996 on: November 29, 2018, 08:26:52 pm »
I have one (4€) which shows that my wall mirror does have mains potential in it as does my work desk.  :-DD  :palm:
 

Offline glarsson

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 807
  • Country: se
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2997 on: November 29, 2018, 09:08:18 pm »
I have one (4€) which shows that my wall mirror does have mains potential in it as does my work desk.  :-DD  :palm:
Free energy!
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 581
  • Country: pt
  • Kernel Panic
    • Malagas Lair
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2998 on: November 29, 2018, 09:14:08 pm »
Well this one doesn't do that and doesn't work well on my sockets . I have to use a UK to EU(Type G to F ??? blob:https://www.dropbox.com/1b062708-409e-4ccc-b9c3-485785168d62 )  adapter to work on the plugs  :-DD It doesn't trip with DC voltages... Now its time to perform a test on a Isolated transformer , 220 VAC 6VA .
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 581
  • Country: pt
  • Kernel Panic
    • Malagas Lair
Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2999 on: November 29, 2018, 09:27:26 pm »
Well this one doesn't do that and doesn't work well on my sockets . I have to use a UK to EU(Type G to F ??? blob:https://www.dropbox.com/1b062708-409e-4ccc-b9c3-485785168d62 )  adapter to work on the plugs  :-DD It doesn't trip with DC voltages... Now its time to perform a test on a Isolated transformer , 220 VAC 6VA .

It trips on one of the conductors on the isolated side and on the isolated side there is a capacitice dropper that feeds an opamp and also provides the AC signal to it and that signal goes to optocoupler, into a 555 :P On  the 555 side doesn't beep but on the rest of the circuit it beeps :P. The 555 is also isolated with SMPS...

« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 09:33:18 pm by malagas_on_fire »
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf