Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 504794 times)

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3050 on: December 19, 2018, 12:02:24 am »
Well, it does support BLE is that helps narrow the search.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3051 on: December 19, 2018, 10:42:43 am »
Let me guess it is a brand new OWON B35 and the other meters was just for diversion  :-DD
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Offline gnavigator1007

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3052 on: December 19, 2018, 01:01:43 pm »
Could it maybe be a Metrix mtx3293bt?! I've been hoping you might run something from them for awhile now, but they're certainly not inexpensive meters. Chauvin Arnoux meters don't seem very common in the states. Can't remember if you've torture tested any weird meters that lack a rotary switch now that I think about it.
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3053 on: December 19, 2018, 01:55:19 pm »
I can think of a few with Bluetooth (peaktech 3440, the Metrix above, Owon OW18B), but specifically BLE and blue is somewhat limiting to the Owon proposed by Malagas and the BT33+.

Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3054 on: December 20, 2018, 12:55:00 pm »
The blue meter w/ BLE

https://youtu.be/nXjVc4Rmg7Y
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3055 on: December 20, 2018, 01:11:03 pm »
So many close calls... Congratulations on the new meter!

I'll watch it later.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3056 on: December 20, 2018, 09:22:49 pm »
Did I claim that "all" ceramic fuses are filled or only that I believed the ones in that $14 LIDL meter would be filled?

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3057 on: December 20, 2018, 09:25:37 pm »
Looking at the quality of the printing on this fuse, I doubt it's really by SIBA:


 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3058 on: December 20, 2018, 10:45:35 pm »
I'll watch the video later. The meter was also available on the OWN website :P

http://www.owon.com.hk/products_owon_4_1|2_digital_multimeter_with_bluetooth

Why there isn't a CAT rating on their advertisement?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 11:06:36 pm by malagas_on_fire »
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3059 on: December 21, 2018, 12:38:29 am »
Did I claim that "all" ceramic fuses are filled or only that I believed the ones in that $14 LIDL meter would be filled?

"High" is a relative term but I thought all ceramic fuses were "HRC" type.

(otherwise they'd use glass, which is cheaper)

Save you the trouble of using the advanced search:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1095-1096-aneng-q1-multimeter/msg1609810/#msg1609810

Looking at the quality of the printing on this fuse, I doubt it's really by SIBA:

Most of the ones that I show were from meters that were recycled.   I'm not sure what meter that SIBA fuse came in.    When I made that video on what I suspected was a counterfeit SIBA I contacted them to see if they could provide any insight.  They never responded.   I suspect I would get the same response if I tried to contact them again.     Just like Keysight. 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 12:42:51 am by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3060 on: December 23, 2018, 11:18:23 am »
Here are some new cheapo models that has some extra features...

BSIDE True RMS Digital Clamp Meters 1mA Resolution DC/AC Current Voltage Tester

 https://ebay.us/jxLsWt

C902 Digital Clamp Meter AC/DC Voltage Multimeter Ohm Volt Amp Tester ( fluke ripoff?)

https://ebay.us/LZeo8C

The blast shield is really effective in protecting from these abominations.
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3061 on: December 23, 2018, 12:01:02 pm »
Here is the guts of the uni-t 204A clamp meter... it is so tight and the input voltage runs a wire to the board. At least is crimped and soldered...Some M.O.V. and a PTC what looks like.. and a lot of melf resistors. Damn so many trim pots... 

The clamp meters looks they have a miniaturized selector switch  and done poorly in low end models as well.
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3062 on: December 23, 2018, 12:27:33 pm »
That does look pretty tight. 

You don't always get what you pay for with these junk meters.   That TPI/Summit 194II is a good example.  At least with the UNI-T UT181A, I can see they made an attempt.   So more money does not guarantee a more robust meter.   I have lost a switch on a BK, Mastech and UNI-T within a few years of use.  They are just not made to last very long with moderate use but then again, I doubt people (including myself) ever buy these off brands thinking they are going to have a long life.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3063 on: January 01, 2019, 10:01:11 am »
I may add the table to the spreadsheet.   Basically, all the assumptions on the battery life are listed, if someone wanted to replicate the tests.  Battery numbers of from Wiki.  They are all alkaline.   I have not taken the time to look up any datasheets. 

The nominal is with the meter in ACV, no other options.  Backlight is measure in ACV w the backlight active and set to it's highest brightness.

Some meters like the Gossen and the CEM have built-in radios.  The Amprobe has a flashlight.  I run through all the modes, except with the backlight off to measure the max function current.   

Meters are sorted by their nominal battery life.  In my case with the Gossen for example, I never turn off the radio so the 42 hours is closer to what I would expect. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3064 on: January 01, 2019, 10:58:55 pm »
Jesus The brymen BM869s drains almost the 9V battery to nothing. They really do last, if assuming they are from the same brand.

An odd example the uni-t 204A clamp meter has a cut-off near 5.8V on nimh cell, but on alkaline is 7.2V for 9V battery. The clamp drains a lot the energy.



If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3065 on: January 02, 2019, 01:45:21 am »
Happy new year!

Wow... If I read it correctly,  the 101 has 800h of lifetime! That is what Keysight claims on the U1282A. Later I will try to do some measurements on it, throwing also the U1273A, the BM857 and the venerable Flukes of yore (8020A, 8060A, 8062A).
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3066 on: January 02, 2019, 04:50:41 am »
Happy new year as well.   

The Fluke 17B+ and latest version of the free Harbor Freight meter appear to have the longest battery life based on my Wiki battery data. 

You won't find a lot of cheap meters, because they were recycled after they could not be repaired, or in the case of the UT61E and ZT-102, they were modified to the point where I expect it would corrupt the data.  A bit tired of dealing with the 121GW prototype and left it off as a result. 

I used to get a lot of negative comments about that 17B+. Seeing it do so well in my transient tests, switch life cycle testing and now what appears to be a very long battery life,  if you can live with the features it has, it appears to be a pretty decent meter. 

There is a previous link to a thread showing some of the test jig.  The BM869s was one of the meters I used during my testing.  I mentioned a few details about the cutoff voltage.   The software is currently looking for the current draw to be less than half of the nominal.  In the case of the BM869s, a low battery alarm was set long before this. 

You can see how they behave as the voltage is ramped down.   The cutoff is not always a nice sharp edge. 

If anyone has some ideas on how they would like to see the data measured or presented, feel free to make your suggestions.

**********
In the last plot, I have added a cursor readout.  The Brymen BM869s is selected and the cursor is placed where the alarm is just ready to sound.  We can see the voltage is 5.7, much higher than the 2.8 volts shown in the table for the half nominal.  The meter is still running down at 2.8 but as I mentioned, the results are not predictable.    I think as long is it is clearly stated how the measurement is taken, it should be fine.. Then again...  :-DD
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 08:06:59 am by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3067 on: January 02, 2019, 11:35:31 am »
Was going to ask about including the uni-t 210e clamp meter but since it is very modified it can give different results from a non modified as mentioned

what about include on the spreadsheet the claimed battery life on manual for comparisson ?

If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3068 on: January 02, 2019, 12:59:25 pm »
Was going to ask about including the uni-t 210e clamp meter but since it is very modified it can give different results from a non modified as mentioned

what about include on the spreadsheet the claimed battery life on manual for comparisson ?

I will make you a deal.  You spend the time hunting down this information and I will gladly add it.  As I mentioned, many of the meters don't have these numbers published so you will need to contact the manufactures. 

This seems to include meters by UNI-T, Amprobe (OEM UNI-T), CEM, ALLOSUN, OWON and Brymen. 

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline IanB

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3069 on: January 02, 2019, 01:43:49 pm »
Battery life for a DMM is a "how long is a piece of string" question. The power draw depends not only on obvious factors like use of the backlight, but on less obvious factors like use of resistance, capacitance and continuity ranges (where power is expended for the test), compared to voltage measurements which are basically passive. I can see why manufacturers would decline to state an expected battery life. It is going to depend a lot on the usage profile which they have no control over.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3070 on: January 02, 2019, 01:53:20 pm »
Battery life for a DMM is a "how long is a piece of string" question ...

Yep, they won't tell you that info, but they will sometimes say "Do not leave batteries in if you do not intend to use for an extended period of time".  :)
I am a Test Equipment Addict (TEA) - by virtue of this forum signature, I have now faced my addiction
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3071 on: January 02, 2019, 02:34:08 pm »
Battery life for a DMM is a "how long is a piece of string" question. The power draw depends not only on obvious factors like use of the backlight, but on less obvious factors like use of resistance, capacitance and continuity ranges (where power is expended for the test), compared to voltage measurements which are basically passive. I can see why manufacturers would decline to state an expected battery life. It is going to depend a lot on the usage profile which they have no control over.
Except that Keysight advertises this for both their U1272A and U1282A.

Quote from: U1272A
300 hours of battery life and Keysight Remote Link Solution enabled (wireless data logging via Bluetooth)

Quote from: U1282A
Stay productive with 800 hours of battery life and datalogging via Bluetooth
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3072 on: January 02, 2019, 02:47:02 pm »
Fluke and HIOKI publish numbers.  I appended them to the file names. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3073 on: January 03, 2019, 10:42:08 am »
The brymen BM235 has also that information , measured by Dave himself on the EEvblog.

Thats a big proposition .... already regreting ... exclude the uni-t's from the list  they don't have that

 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 10:46:45 am by malagas_on_fire »
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3074 on: January 03, 2019, 12:28:56 pm »
I saw that but thought you wanted the manufactures numbers for a comparison.   

If Dave's numbers are acceptable to you and the data I am collecting is not, please explain how you would like to see them measured.

***

Note his 3.2 mA is very close to what I measure with nothing connected to the meter and looking for the worst case mode, with the backlight off.   I was using 1000mA/hr from Wiki (860–1,200 and split the differnce) for AAA Alkalines to get the 312 hrs.  Dave was using 770mA/hr.    Energizer Alkaline for example does not have any data for the 3.2mA the meter is pulling.   As suggested, it's all a bit of a swag. 

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1912477.pdf

If you would like to suggest other numbers be used, you could always just download the data and plug it into a spreadsheet.   Best I can offer is some sort of standard way to measure them in order to compare them.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 01:01:08 pm by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 


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