Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 495377 times)

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3050 on: December 11, 2018, 11:17:32 am »
joeqsmith
Please what was the verdict on your new Fluke 87V ? If I understand right it passed the high voltage test according to CAT rating but there was some wear on the rotary switch?
Is Fluke 87V worth buying when compared to Hioki and Keysight??

Let's ignore the CAT rating part of your question as I really have no way of evaluating any meter's safety rating.   I ran a few of these.  The new one (SN 490xxxxx) survived all the way up to 10KV, 2 ohm source, 50us FWHH.  It was finally damaged at 12KV.   That's a pretty big hit and only a few meters have survived to this level.   At one time I ran a very old one (SN 105xxxxx) which was damaged at 1.5KV.    I've ran a fair number of Flukes and this one stuck out like a sore thumb.  I had rebuilt it and decided to have a closer look into why it failed at such a low voltage to the extent of making a model of the front end.  I really could not come up with any reason why it was damaged.  In the end I reran this meter and using my smaller transient generator, the meter survived to it's maximum setting which is just under 6KV with a 100us FWHH.  IMO, you make it to this level, you have a pretty robust meter.   

As for the switch, yes I cycle tested one.   50,000 full cycles, from one dead stop, to the other and back being one cycle.  The same as I have every other meter I have looked at.  Non stop.  No cleaning the contacts during the test.   The meter was grinding really bad and when the test was finished, the pads appear to have chatter marks (if you are a machinist).  This seems to be the source of the grinding.   

The Fluke 17B+ is still king of the cycle testing.  Both of these meters were reassembled after inspection without any cleaning.  At some point I plan to do something with them.  Maybe use them as a banchmark for other meters. 

I only ran that one Keysight and HIOKI meter.   The Keysight was a big let down.  They appeared to have used a glass filled plastic for the detent spring for the switch.  All four prongs cracked early on in the cycle testing.   The meter, even with it's GDTs did not prove to be very robust.  I do like my old HP bench meters but lets just say I am not itching to get another Keysight meter.   Keep in mind, a different model could do very well.  I have no idea. 

HIOKI, well  let's just say I have some bias there.  I use some HIOKI equipment for work.  If I am working in CAT III, that is what I am using.  That meter is a bit on the pricey side but has more than paid for itself.     For my tests, I bought something lower end.  More like Fluke's 115. 
It didn't let me down.  At 10KV the meter started to arc around the plastic insert but had no electrical damage.  I added a bit of plastic to extend it a bit further through the slot and tool the meter to 14KV!  It was rock solid.   

Again to be clear because you mention the CAT ratings, these are NOT the waveforms used for the IEC surge test.  Those tests are conducted using a combo generator.  In other words they have two waveforms, current and voltage.   Because my goal has never been to look at safety, I was not concerned with the current waveform.  I used the voltage waveform as the base for my test sort of but limit the energy to about 20 Joules.  Hardly enough to do any damage at all.  I just want enough to cause a meter to fail but not come apart.  So you will NEVER see the explosions with my setup like you could with an actual arc flash event.   

I don't make recommendations.  Everyone will have different needs for their tools.  I can tell you that personally for my hobby use, of all the Flukes I have, I use that 97 scope meter and the 189s from time to time.  My handheld meter of choice is still the Brymen BM869s.  My second choice is the Fluke 189.  It's old but I like it.   If UNI-T would get off their butts and make a better version of the UT181A, I would be all over it.  It's a nice replica of the Fluke 289 with some improvements.   Then there is that Gossen Ultra.  So much potential destroyed by marketing and sales.  It does seem to have a lot of hype.  I use both of these meters from time to time but they have both been modified to better fit my needs.       

If you look in my trailer, you would still find my beat up old Mastech meter on it's last legs.  I plan to replace it with the BM319s.       
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3051 on: December 17, 2018, 09:43:24 am »
Dead camera batteries have prolonged the life of another meter. 

The choice of meters should provide a clue.  Looks about the size of a popular meter..... 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 12:45:31 pm by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3052 on: December 17, 2018, 11:31:57 am »
The disposal of the meters and the types reminds this video:


 
Maybe the 121GW but all meters in the pack have bargraph so it could be the hioki DT4252 has well.  :-DMM

[Edit] Could be a Surpeer AV4???
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 11:38:09 am by malagas_on_fire »
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3053 on: December 17, 2018, 12:57:23 pm »
Those are some fairly low end meters in that video except for one.  Some may say that in the real world, things like this don't matter.  I have a much different opinion about such things. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online tautech

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3054 on: December 17, 2018, 01:49:16 pm »
Dead camera batteries have prolonged the life of another meter. 

The choice of meters should provide a clue.  Looks about the size of a popular meter.....
121GW with the latest mods ?  :popcorn:
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3055 on: December 17, 2018, 09:49:50 pm »
Those are some fairly low end meters in that video except for one.  Some may say that in the real world, things like this don't matter.  I have a much different opinion about such things.

Well it depends the field were it is going to be applied , at home , industrial harsh enviroment or heavy use on electrical instalations.

So the video about magnetic sensibility doesn't quite well matches the photo.. but it was a tryout video for a clue of course :P So that could leave to the 121GW as the meter in the bag , being the one that is not low end and it's not the cem / extech .


If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3056 on: December 18, 2018, 12:25:16 am »
For me, having a meter this sensitive to a magnetic field would be a problem.  With my hobby it would be less of a problem.  I would more apt to spend some time understanding the problem and trying to come up with a fix.  At work my solution would be "lesson learned", "never again" and chuck it.  In the field I would never risk anything other than name brand equipment.  The equipment has to work without question.  When I brought in that first HIOKI for a trial, I asked the sales people if I could test it (for real).  They agreed and I ran several potentially destructive tests on it.  Some with their sales present.   Not the little waveforms I play with at home to benchmark the handhelds.   We bought two of them as a result.  The one is now over 10 years old. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline stj

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3057 on: December 18, 2018, 01:06:10 am »
magnetic resistance is important IMO,
you cant trust a meter if you cant use it near a transformer or other large Q coil.
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3058 on: December 18, 2018, 01:25:47 am »
Sensitive multimeter than it could be the 121GW the one on the bag, Hioki then may be out of the bag, due to the testimonial of survival. It's sad that the meters  Gossen Metrawatt Metrahit and 121GW showed that sensibility at first try and  had the potential to be great meters. Mayble a revision / recall would do the job.

 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3059 on: December 18, 2018, 05:47:14 am »
Dead camera batteries have prolonged the life of another meter. 
This tells me it survived the spark and (perhaps) the "lower" (2kV, 4kV) voltages. Better than a throwaway.

The choice of meters should provide a clue.  Looks about the size of a popular meter.....
This gives a lot of room for speculation, given you are not saying anything about the actual popularity of the meter (only about its size) - it could be a 121GW, a Surpeer AV4 or even a more obscure brand such as... The one we talked about before.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3060 on: December 18, 2018, 02:54:24 pm »
The meter is blue if that helps and it is still in fully working order.  It's also far from the worse meter I have ever looked at.   That should narrow things down a bit.  :-DD
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3061 on: December 18, 2018, 11:16:43 pm »
Ahn... I see someone has been taking advantage of a fire sale from a certain popular internet sensation... 

Well, that or a Tektronix TX3... Oh, wait... that wouldn't fit on the photo...  :-DD
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3062 on: December 19, 2018, 12:02:24 am »
Well, it does support BLE is that helps narrow the search.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3063 on: December 19, 2018, 10:42:43 am »
Let me guess it is a brand new OWON B35 and the other meters was just for diversion  :-DD
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline gnavigator1007

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3064 on: December 19, 2018, 01:01:43 pm »
Could it maybe be a Metrix mtx3293bt?! I've been hoping you might run something from them for awhile now, but they're certainly not inexpensive meters. Chauvin Arnoux meters don't seem very common in the states. Can't remember if you've torture tested any weird meters that lack a rotary switch now that I think about it.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3065 on: December 19, 2018, 01:55:19 pm »
I can think of a few with Bluetooth (peaktech 3440, the Metrix above, Owon OW18B), but specifically BLE and blue is somewhat limiting to the Owon proposed by Malagas and the BT33+.

Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3066 on: December 20, 2018, 12:55:00 pm »
The blue meter w/ BLE

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3067 on: December 20, 2018, 01:11:03 pm »
So many close calls... Congratulations on the new meter!

I'll watch it later.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3068 on: December 20, 2018, 09:22:49 pm »
Did I claim that "all" ceramic fuses are filled or only that I believed the ones in that $14 LIDL meter would be filled?

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3069 on: December 20, 2018, 09:25:37 pm »
Looking at the quality of the printing on this fuse, I doubt it's really by SIBA:


 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3070 on: December 20, 2018, 10:45:35 pm »
I'll watch the video later. The meter was also available on the OWN website :P

http://www.owon.com.hk/products_owon_4_1|2_digital_multimeter_with_bluetooth

Why there isn't a CAT rating on their advertisement?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 11:06:36 pm by malagas_on_fire »
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3071 on: December 21, 2018, 12:38:29 am »
Did I claim that "all" ceramic fuses are filled or only that I believed the ones in that $14 LIDL meter would be filled?

"High" is a relative term but I thought all ceramic fuses were "HRC" type.

(otherwise they'd use glass, which is cheaper)

Save you the trouble of using the advanced search:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1095-1096-aneng-q1-multimeter/msg1609810/#msg1609810

Looking at the quality of the printing on this fuse, I doubt it's really by SIBA:

Most of the ones that I show were from meters that were recycled.   I'm not sure what meter that SIBA fuse came in.    When I made that video on what I suspected was a counterfeit SIBA I contacted them to see if they could provide any insight.  They never responded.   I suspect I would get the same response if I tried to contact them again.     Just like Keysight. 
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 12:42:51 am by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3072 on: December 23, 2018, 11:18:23 am »
Here are some new cheapo models that has some extra features...

BSIDE True RMS Digital Clamp Meters 1mA Resolution DC/AC Current Voltage Tester

 https://ebay.us/jxLsWt

C902 Digital Clamp Meter AC/DC Voltage Multimeter Ohm Volt Amp Tester ( fluke ripoff?)

https://ebay.us/LZeo8C

The blast shield is really effective in protecting from these abominations.
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3073 on: December 23, 2018, 12:01:02 pm »
Here is the guts of the uni-t 204A clamp meter... it is so tight and the input voltage runs a wire to the board. At least is crimped and soldered...Some M.O.V. and a PTC what looks like.. and a lot of melf resistors. Damn so many trim pots... 

The clamp meters looks they have a miniaturized selector switch  and done poorly in low end models as well.
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3074 on: December 23, 2018, 12:27:33 pm »
That does look pretty tight. 

You don't always get what you pay for with these junk meters.   That TPI/Summit 194II is a good example.  At least with the UNI-T UT181A, I can see they made an attempt.   So more money does not guarantee a more robust meter.   I have lost a switch on a BK, Mastech and UNI-T within a few years of use.  They are just not made to last very long with moderate use but then again, I doubt people (including myself) ever buy these off brands thinking they are going to have a long life.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 


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