Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.5%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
43 (93.5%)

Total Members Voted: 46

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 495241 times)

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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3125 on: February 02, 2019, 03:08:57 am »
Thanks for the advice rsjsouza.


Plan to do a setup to measure also the current consumption in all modes to check what does get more energy from the battery using aligator clips to a multimeter in mA / uA . Also check if the current setups doesn't add up to the measure, eg bad aligator clips, bad leads. 

If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3126 on: February 02, 2019, 03:40:51 am »
That is cool, Malagas. This is similar to the data I got from the meters I tested and shown in the attached photograph.

I plan to do a test on the quiescent current on standby, but that takes quite a long time waiting for the meters to power off automatically.

 
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3127 on: February 04, 2019, 12:19:36 pm »
Would you pay $1522 for a free Harbor Freight meter?  My first digital VOM gets an overhaul.

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3128 on: February 05, 2019, 09:11:51 am »
Hi here is my first tryout to measure current in a DMM in order to check its power drain using a almost fresh NIMH cell.. a newbie one...

Conditions....:

. DMM: Uni-t 204A clamp meter.
- Cell: 9V NIMH 220mAh
- Leads:  Using old aligator leads plugged  to terminais ( plan to user newer ones or dummy cell)
- Current Measurement: Multimeter Unit-50b in 20 mA scale in series with battery + standard test leads +  old aligator clips 
- Voltage Measurement ( Battery and DMMterminais) : Uni-t 120C

Measurements
- Check attachments .. in portuguese... sorry :P
- Battery Voltage measurement on battery and contacts was taken on the 40A DC


Further tests involves switching aligators clips,test leads, dummy cells. Measurement multimeters for better accuracy on the results. 

If there is anything missing which is.. quote ::P
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3129 on: February 17, 2019, 08:25:14 am »
Starting to work on a new video but the German's are getting me down.  But if you like seeing old meters, stay tuned..
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3130 on: February 17, 2019, 10:15:32 am »
Starting to work on a new video but the German's are getting me down.  But if you like seeing old meters, stay tuned..
Oh, no! What did Gossen do this time?!? Did they set radiowave or magnetic weapons around your house to make all meters go wild?
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3131 on: February 17, 2019, 10:40:33 am »
Hope it's not Benning MN12 and software for windows is not working properly ....

https://www.benning.de/products-en/testing-measuring-and-safety-equipment/digital-multimeter/benning-mm-12.html

Looks nice with BLE , 40000 counts , AC+DC but on the other hand more expensive ...
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3132 on: February 17, 2019, 12:03:35 pm »
Starting to work on a new video but the German's are getting me down.  But if you like seeing old meters, stay tuned..

 /me is staying tuned. :-DMM
Life is better under the TEA. ♪♩♫ Under the TEA. ♩♫
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3133 on: February 17, 2019, 02:45:34 pm »
Made some progress today and saw something that I have never seen before, even with all the low end meters I have looked at.   Like many of my videos, I got a little sidetracked as well. 

Testing continues on the pocket meter that True claims they had damaged some high number of.   I don't think they ever did post again after making that first video.  Someone also asked me about running an experiment which I have decided to take on for fun.  Bouncing between the three videos as I have time.   Combined with work and other interests, I haven't been spending much time with the meters.   So be patient and perhaps in a couple of weeks you can see a brand I havn't yet looked at. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline stj

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3134 on: February 18, 2019, 12:34:08 pm »
a real one - looks similar

 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3135 on: February 18, 2019, 12:49:36 pm »
Notice the complex markings on this one.  Real or counterfeit?  We need our fuse expert Fungus to weigh in.   

I've written SIBA before about possible counterfeit fuses and they are pretty much like dealing with Gossen or a vacuum, your pick.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3136 on: February 18, 2019, 08:17:41 pm »
a real one - looks similar


Quality of the printed letters is much better on that one.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3137 on: February 19, 2019, 12:03:05 am »
No comment on the third one I posted?

I am willing to take these apart and take any measurements you would care to see if you have original SIBAs that we could compare them with.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3138 on: February 19, 2019, 12:18:05 am »
No comment on the third one I posted?

I'm not sure about that one. On the one hand I don't see why SIBA would have two types of markings but on the other I know that when you make a comment like that it's a trap.

There's a distinct lack of pictures of fuses on SIBA's web site to compare anything with.  :-//
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 12:19:47 am by Fungus »
 

Offline stj

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3139 on: February 19, 2019, 01:39:52 am »
i dont think breaking them will tell you much, even if they are fake they can still be sand-filled.

i know there was a vid by "voltlog" testing meter fuses from another company that used test currents and timed the speed it tripped.

and

 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3140 on: February 19, 2019, 01:43:51 am »
i know there was a vid by "voltlog" testing meter fuses from another company that used test currents and timed the speed it tripped.

There have been some here, too:


 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3141 on: February 19, 2019, 01:45:01 am »
It appears it came with the the Keysight meter.

What do you mean by "appears"? Did you personally unbox a new/sealed Keysight meter and remove that fuse from it?

 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3142 on: February 19, 2019, 02:08:37 am »
It appears it came with the the Keysight meter.

What do you mean by "appears"? Did you personally unbox a new/sealed Keysight meter and remove that fuse from it?
I bought the Keysight meter from Keysight, brand new.  Yes I unboxed it and proceeded to test it to failure.  Very few meters I have looked at came with SIBA branded fuses.  Most that did, used the small body style.   The Keysight meter I bought did have a 10A large body and I had pulled the fuses when I scrapped the meter.  The pulled fuses get tossed into a bag.  There is only one 10A SIBA fuse in the bag.   But, I've ran many meters over the last couple of years and it's possible there was some other meter that came with SIBA branded fuses that I scrapped.   So I use the word appears because there is a chance that it came from something else.  I'm not sure what I would have done with the fuse from the Keysight though.   

i dont think breaking them will tell you much, even if they are fake they can still be sand-filled.

i know there was a vid by "voltlog" testing meter fuses from another company that used test currents and timed the speed it tripped.
If you take the time to watch those videos you linked and read the comments, you will find he based those tests off of mine.  He had some problems with the first setup and you will see where I posted some details to try and help him sort it out.   

Again, if anyone has a known SIBA 10A, and would like to do some sort of comparison, feel free to ask.  I doubt we would get any support from SIBA on this matter.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3143 on: February 19, 2019, 02:31:32 am »
No comment on the third one I posted?

I'm not sure about that one. On the one hand I don't see why SIBA would have two types of markings but on the other I know that when you make a comment like that it's a trap.

There's a distinct lack of pictures of fuses on SIBA's web site to compare anything with.  :-//

:-DD :-DD   

I really don't have a lot of information on counterfeit fuses.  I am not aware of a SIBA distributor here so I would need to lean on people who have access to genuine components to compare them with.   I don't have any data on SIBAs printing process.  It's possible it could be a metric we could use to determine if they are counterfeit but we would need an SIBA expert to help out with that.

Pulling them apart may provide some indication but then again, it's possible they have multiple factories and may have changed the design over the years.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3144 on: February 19, 2019, 04:02:47 am »
Here are two HRC 400mA  fuses suitable for the BM235. The one on the left was purchase online  and the right it is the stock that it came. Lettering may be different but looking with eye position is the same if viewed from right to left endcap.

If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3145 on: February 19, 2019, 04:27:06 am »
It appears it came with the the Keysight meter.

What do you mean by "appears"? Did you personally unbox a new/sealed Keysight meter and remove that fuse from it?
I bought the Keysight meter from Keysight, brand new.  Yes I unboxed it and proceeded to test it to failure.  Very few meters I have looked at came with SIBA branded fuses.  Most that did, used the small body style.   The Keysight meter I bought did have a 10A large body and I had pulled the fuses when I scrapped the meter.  The pulled fuses get tossed into a bag.  There is only one 10A SIBA fuse in the bag.   But, I've ran many meters over the last couple of years and it's possible there was some other meter that came with SIBA branded fuses that I scrapped.   So I use the word appears because there is a chance that it came from something else.  I'm not sure what I would have done with the fuse from the Keysight though.   

I had made a series of videos where I modified a UT61E.  One of the things I had done was to replace the small fuse with the larger one using this SIBA fuse.  However, later changed out the shunt to allow using the meter at 20A and replaced the 10A fuse and back into the bag it went.   I can't seem to find any other videos showing the 10A fuse and am fairly confident of it's history.   

https://youtu.be/d6LTsaOqk30?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQDrk4o1Y45auwK7LomjnNBU&t=274
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3146 on: February 19, 2019, 05:43:34 am »
It appears it came with the the Keysight meter.

What do you mean by "appears"? Did you personally unbox a new/sealed Keysight meter and remove that fuse from it?
I bought the Keysight meter from Keysight, brand new.  Yes I unboxed it and proceeded to test it to failure.  Very few meters I have looked at came with SIBA branded fuses.  Most that did, used the small body style.   The Keysight meter I bought did have a 10A large body and I had pulled the fuses when I scrapped the meter.  The pulled fuses get tossed into a bag.  There is only one 10A SIBA fuse in the bag.   But, I've ran many meters over the last couple of years and it's possible there was some other meter that came with SIBA branded fuses that I scrapped.   So I use the word appears because there is a chance that it came from something else.  I'm not sure what I would have done with the fuse from the Keysight though.   

I had made a series of videos where I modified a UT61E.  One of the things I had done was to replace the small fuse with the larger one using this SIBA fuse.  However, later changed out the shunt to allow using the meter at 20A and replaced the 10A fuse and back into the bag it went.   I can't seem to find any other videos showing the 10A fuse and am fairly confident of it's history.   

https://youtu.be/d6LTsaOqk30?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQDrk4o1Y45auwK7LomjnNBU&t=274

Looking at the pictures I have taken over the years, the Gossen and CEM meters used the large SIBA 10A fuse.  However the Keysight meter does NOT!!!!   :-DD   It's a good thing I take pictures.  I forgot that meter does not even have current.   :-DD   I may need to retire from meter testing.

I still have these meters and could take high resolution pictures of each fuse if you like.    You would expect a Gossen meter would have a genuine SIBA fuse.  See attached.

So,  now that we know the fuse in question did not come from Keysight, where did this fuse come from?  I think there are two possible answers.  I had ran another CEM at one time and I think there was a Klein meter that may have had a large fuse as well.  I did not take pictures of these meters and would need to see if the videos show anything.

The ones I had purchased that I suspected were counterfeit were clearly marked different than the ones supplied with the meters.  They also behaved different when I compared the two.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3147 on: February 19, 2019, 05:48:53 am »
No comment on the third one I posted?

I'm not sure about that one. On the one hand I don't see why SIBA would have two types of markings but on the other I know that when you make a comment like that it's a trap.

There's a distinct lack of pictures of fuses on SIBA's web site to compare anything with.  :-//

I find Siba USA very responsive to any questions.
It takes a while to get to the particular product manager and sometimes ends up bouncing around Germany.
They will micro-section to find any fakes or other issues. I guess it's something they do all the time, the only way to really check a fuse inside.
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3148 on: February 19, 2019, 06:03:40 am »
Here are the original SIBA HRC 10kA fuses that came with my U1273A purchased new.

The printing is radically different between them.

The metallic ends are scrapped and scuffed both from factory and from my attempts to remove them from the meter (they are fit incredibly tight).

And sorry, I will not destroy them to see if they are fake.  ;D
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3149 on: February 19, 2019, 06:13:32 am »
Here are the original SIBA HRC 10kA fuses that came with my U1273A purchased new.

The printing is radically different between them.


No kidding.

Food for thought...
 


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