Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 531692 times)

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3150 on: February 20, 2019, 05:47:16 pm »
I was going to say that there's a video of a guy at fluke connecting a meter to 660V and twisting the selector dial back and forth, but AFAICT it's a meter with no current ranges:

 :-DD :-DD

I watched that AEV (AVE?) video where he looks at the non-contact Fluke fork and rants about how bad it is for an hour while trying to use a current monitor with it.  Lots of drama and just stupid.  Then I see him post about a cheap meter and compares it with a Fluke.  No big deal but he is talking about how safe the Fluke is, all the while with some fuse that he pulled from the local hardware store stuck in it.  If you are going to promote safety, seems like you would at least use a fuse rated for the AC/DC voltages and proper break currents....  |O 

I make mistakes in pretty much every video I put out but IMO these go beyond a simple mistake. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3151 on: February 20, 2019, 07:06:50 pm »
Yes, AvE (Arduino vs. Evil).
I TEA.
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3152 on: February 20, 2019, 10:42:03 pm »
I was going to say that there's a video of a guy at fluke connecting a meter to 660V and twisting the selector dial back and forth, but AFAICT it's a meter with no current ranges:

 :-DD :-DD

I watched that AEV (AVE?) video where he looks at the non-contact Fluke fork and rants about how bad it is for an hour while trying to use a current monitor with it.  Lots of drama and just stupid.  Then I see him post about a cheap meter and compares it with a Fluke.  No big deal but he is talking about how safe the Fluke is, all the while with some fuse that he pulled from the local hardware store stuck in it.  If you are going to promote safety, seems like you would at least use a fuse rated for the AC/DC voltages and proper break currents....  |O 

I make mistakes in pretty much every video I put out but IMO these go beyond a simple mistake.

Well this is not to contrast with the given facts but there is a difference between a safe meter and safe "human" procedures. if one fails you are compromising already the safety and in that case the "human" fails to grant the security of the meter and its own in further time.

To be honest i did a big mistake on purchased some fuses on a store in a rush but didn't pay attention to the label "T" of the SIBA fuses  which means time and multimeter requires F or FF :( Now they only serve for protection on a AC / DC project because karma is telling that they if placed on the meter it may blow it or the human ...


https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg2210136/#msg2210136
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 10:54:52 pm by malagas_on_fire »
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3153 on: February 22, 2019, 01:17:53 pm »
The difference is you realized and understood you bought the wrong fuse.   

I made a video showing a small model dyno I constructed and used to help design a much larger system to evaluate a friends race car motors.   I used motor out of a child's toy to demonstrate it.  Apparently the people who play with these feel they are not toys and that I should know better than to call them such.   They felt I should have some clue about their hobby where I really have no interest.  Point being, we all have our areas that we will dive into.  After watching a couple of the other guys videos, I have the feeling he is just out of his element when he talks about electrical/electronics.

I was hoping to finish up my testing this weekend for the new meter but ran into a minor setback.  Parts are on order and should make it in next week.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3154 on: February 22, 2019, 04:33:44 pm »
Also, curious what would happen if this blew the supply company's service fuse? What would they charge to come out and fix it? And would they ask how it got blown?
It's pretty common here. You can buy a 63A fuse and install it by yourself if you dare. Fuse box doesn't have any precinct. Just a plastic lever inside.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3155 on: February 22, 2019, 05:06:16 pm »
I was hoping to finish up my testing this weekend for the new meter but ran into a minor setback.  Parts are on order and should make it in next week.

It died much too early?
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3156 on: February 22, 2019, 06:28:13 pm »
I was hoping to finish up my testing this weekend for the new meter but ran into a minor setback.  Parts are on order and should make it in next week.

It died much too early?

Two years of testing has taught me that the performance is not always proportional to the hype.   

To date, I have documented 59 meters.  This does not include a few like the Fluke 189.    In the first set of tests, the AMPROBE AM510 was damaged at 5.8KV which is basically what I call my cutoff point.   Make it above that level, you have a decent meter IMO.  We have 15 that meet that criteria or 25%.    If we include the Fluke 189 and assue that one 87V that I had repaired and reseted to be a flyer, then we have 17 out of 60 or 28.3%.   Of course, I have been running what I consider a better class of meter lately which biases the data.   

Of these, the brands that stand out are and Fluke and Brymen.  While the Gossen and HIOKI both did very well, I only looked at one product from these companies.  I have said that I use a HIOKI product for work and personally, that carries some clout after what I have put it through (transient wise).   We are not talking about these little piss ant transients I apply to benchmark these meters.   


Statistically speaking, I would say the meter I am looking at now ......   (you don't want me to spoil it for you, do you? lol)    Maybe we will have a new brand join the Flukes, Brymen's, HIOKI's and Gossens of the world.  It's big shoes to fill and requires you know how to design....  Maybe.... 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3157 on: February 22, 2019, 06:33:03 pm »
you don't want me to spoil it for you, do you?

Nope.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3158 on: February 25, 2019, 11:51:36 am »
Several people have asked me to look at Yokogawa.   In this video, I have a look at their top of the line TY720. 

https://youtu.be/4aCN-uLeO5s
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3159 on: February 25, 2019, 12:37:43 pm »
At least we agree on the correct choice of calculator.  :)

Edit: Real SIBA fuses? The printing on them looked nice in the video, maybe some closeup images.

(or ware those the fuses you posted the other day?)

« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 03:55:07 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3160 on: February 26, 2019, 12:37:18 am »
At least we agree on the correct choice of calculator.  :)

Edit: Real SIBA fuses? The printing on them looked nice in the video, maybe some closeup images.

(or ware those the fuses you posted the other day?)

I like this old HP calculator.  Anything more complex, I use the PC.   

I saved the fuse in case someone wanted more information about it.   I have no reason to suspect any of the large parts have been counterfeit.   If someone did want to make a knockoff, I would think they would directly crimp the end caps to the body like other cheap fuses we have looked at.   

In the comments, one person had posted about also seeing a fuse be intermittent.   Perhaps it's more common than I thought. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3161 on: February 27, 2019, 12:26:35 am »
Hey seems that the DMM have some similar cousins,.. Kyoritsu KEW 1062 :

https://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00976/

Copy cat?
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3162 on: March 01, 2019, 05:09:59 pm »
Joe, I am really sorry to see how this Yokogawa is really a far cry from the A-brand meters - one could do much better for the same price.

Given Malagas' find above, I really wonder if they OEM this.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline sambonator

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3163 on: March 01, 2019, 05:22:46 pm »
Hey seems that the DMM have some similar cousins,.. Kyoritsu KEW 1062 :

https://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00976/

Copy cat?

From what I understand, they're made in the same factory for both Kyoritsu and Yokogawa.  Please see:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ty720-kew-1062-handheld-multimeter-inside-high-resolution-images/msg1491871/?topicseen#msg1491871

 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3164 on: March 02, 2019, 05:43:41 pm »
FanOfeeDIY had asked me about running one (to the extend of offering to send one) of these meters some time ago and posted those pictures to give me some idea how it was designed.  He answered some questions I had as well which is really why I decided to run one.   

I did start a thread in the repair section for the meter.  I'm a bit too lazy to blindly start tracing the meter out but maybe someone else has some details about the design. 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/yokogawa-ty720-kyoritsu-kew1062-needs-repair/
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3165 on: March 03, 2019, 05:49:08 am »
After several of hours of tracing all these analog switches and multiplexers, I now know way more than anyone should ever have to about the TY720.   The board is filled with colored markers and now needs a good cleaning.   

To Yokogawa,   :--
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline sambonator

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3166 on: March 03, 2019, 07:21:39 am »
What's that capacitor doing there?
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3167 on: March 03, 2019, 11:38:06 am »
What's that capacitor doing there?

I believed is being measured by the meter, a 25uF part,  before it gets totally assembled , clean and dry. This way you wont get more surprises to avoid further taking apart
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3168 on: March 03, 2019, 04:11:03 pm »
What's that capacitor doing there?

I believed is being measured by the meter, a 25uF part,  before it gets totally assembled , clean and dry. This way you wont get more surprises to avoid further taking apart

Indeed, it was a cap that I was using to test the meter.   Shown, the board after some cleaning.  I have had the shield off three times so far and not seeing a problem with the two solder joints.  Showing the 10uF cap in my test box.   After changing out the analog switches and repairs, the meter needs to be realigned.   

Someone had asked if it was possible that the zebra strip was causing the bad contrast.   No.

Someone else asked about a contrast adjustment.  Yes, there is.  The problem is the contrast is already high enough that segments that are turned off are bleeding through. 

Another person attempted to read a biased AC voltage and was able to repeat what I saw with this meter.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3169 on: March 03, 2019, 04:42:54 pm »
After several of hours of tracing all these analog switches and multiplexers, I now know way more than anyone should ever have to about the TY720.
I feel your pain. I started to extract the schematics of the Surpeer AV4 and suddenly the same thought came to my mind. I then closed everything and sold it for the same price I paid (with all the proper disclaimers, of course).

Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3170 on: March 03, 2019, 04:59:05 pm »
Jesus did i wrote 25uF??? i mean t22uF :P Sorry. It was off then but now looks very accurate, and a lot hard work invested in cleaning that flux . Did you also touched some solder joints? they look very shinny.
If one can make knowledge flow than it will go from negative to positve , for real
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3171 on: March 03, 2019, 05:16:10 pm »
After several of hours of tracing all these analog switches and multiplexers, I now know way more than anyone should ever have to about the TY720.
I feel your pain. I started to extract the schematics of the Surpeer AV4 and suddenly the same thought came to my mind. I then closed everything and sold it for the same price I paid (with all the proper disclaimers, of course).

I was really hoping someone would show up with the schematic for it.  It would have been a quick repair then.   I could have left it damaged but I have made a point to attempt to troubleshoot the meters that are damaged during the testing.   With this meter using mostly standard parts, I was confident it could be repaired if I wanted to invest the time.  The spaghetti design added to the challenge.  In the big scheme of making the video, it wasn't too bad. 

I looked at buying one of the AV4 meters but from the pictures I saw, it looked like it had no protection, similar to the ANENG meters I have looked at.  That OWON I looked at did a fair job functionally.  Had the Bluetooth interface been documented,  better input protection and some proper fuses, it would make a nice meter lower cost meter. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3172 on: March 03, 2019, 05:20:59 pm »
Did you also touched some solder joints? they look very shinny.
When it was all said and done, I had removed and reattached 13 ICs and several other parts.   I did blend in some 60/40 on the tabs for the shield to lower the temp.  The rest, I just added flux and reflowed the parts.  My PACE tweezers and heat gun were getting a work out.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3173 on: March 07, 2019, 04:05:53 am »
The correct parts arrived for the Yokogawa today.  Seems to be in cal.   

https://youtu.be/Q9JhJm_dTPM
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline sambonator

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3174 on: March 07, 2019, 12:18:19 pm »
Watched the video but you only touched on the real issue... it was a fuse, but it wassn't one of the two main fuses?  Or was it?  You have us all in suspense  :-DMM ???
 


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