Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter robustness testing  (Read 668193 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3800 on: November 10, 2020, 03:20:50 am »
Dave, please convey to Brymen that Christmas is near!!!!

They have promised mid Nov delivery. But they also promised August and then October...
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3801 on: November 10, 2020, 03:30:16 am »
There is actually an issue (confirmed non-fixable though, Brymen call it a design limitation) in the BM235 that to my knowledge no one has encountered yet.

Do elaborate..

So far I've noticed the undocumented threshold for low-z, which threw me.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3802 on: November 10, 2020, 04:18:18 am »
The issue that Joe found on the new meter most people would never notice, and I've seen that on other meters on the market. ...
I noticed it withing a few minutes.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3803 on: November 10, 2020, 09:51:44 am »
The issue that Joe found on the new meter most people would never notice, and I've seen that on other meters on the market. ...
I noticed it withing a few minutes.

Because you just so happened by chance to have a test and level etc that showed up that particular issue. It could have just as easily been at some other signal level or frequency or waveshape you didn't test for. As I said, the permutations are huge.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 09:56:52 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3804 on: November 10, 2020, 09:55:22 am »
Just out of interest is someone developing (at Brymen) a test plan of all potential issues from previous meters and testing new products against them? This is vastly lacking in QA environments I've found even at large companies. New product? Same issues as the last generation! :(
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3805 on: November 10, 2020, 01:19:04 pm »
Because you just so happened by chance to have a test and level etc that showed up that particular issue. It could have just as easily been at some other signal level or frequency or waveshape you didn't test for.

The plan is to run a more extensive library of waveforms but nothing I haven't shown before.   Brymen should have every possible opportunity to improve their design before I run it.   After all, I gave the EEVBLOG/UEI 121GW 2 years.     

Quote
As I said, the permutations are huge.

Infinite but I'm sure you are aware there are some standards that are commonly used in the industry.  I would imagine that many companies who design products for the AC mains, go so far as to have their own custom waveforms in their tool bags.     
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 01:20:59 pm by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3806 on: November 10, 2020, 01:44:04 pm »
One of the more interesting meters I looked at was the Fluke T6.  After aev, agv something reviewed one and slammed Fluke with lots of drama, several people asked me to have a look.  In this case the person making the review was clueless about how to use it because that half page was too much to read.  I picked up the same meter and AC adapter to repeat their tests before running my own.   The meter did a pretty decent job handling most of the waveforms.   

I did get some feedback (I assume from the electricians who the meter was designed for) about their lack of trust.   Seeing the meter fail in a few cases, I'm sure didn't help build that confidence but it certainly did much better than how it was being portrayed.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8hhtTtWfVc&feature=youtu.be
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Chalton_trc

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3807 on: November 10, 2020, 04:11:10 pm »
I would like to know what firmware changes and what bugs were fixed on the Brymen 786 apart from getting the nS function.

I'd be hesitating between Brymen 869 and 789/86.

The Brymen 7 series is newer and has more features, although it is less accurate.

I would use it for electronic repairs.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3808 on: November 10, 2020, 07:24:39 pm »
I would like to know what firmware changes and what bugs were fixed on the Brymen 786 apart from getting the nS function.

I'd be hesitating between Brymen 869 and 789/86.

If you need a meter today then get the 869. :-//

I would use it for electronic repairs.

a) A BM235 is enough meter for that and you can buy a decent soldering iron with the money you save.
b) You need at least two meters.
 

Online AVGresponding

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3809 on: November 10, 2020, 08:11:46 pm »

b) You need at least twenty meters.

FTFY    :-DMM
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
Addiction count: AVO-BlackStar-Brymen-Fluke-Hameg-HP-Keithley-IsoTech-Mastech-Megger-Micronta-Solartron-Tektronix-Thurlby-Time Electronics-TTi-UniT
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3810 on: November 10, 2020, 10:43:09 pm »
I would like to know what firmware changes and what bugs were fixed on the Brymen 786 apart from getting the nS function.

The code base will almost certainly be identical on models, there would just be flags in the software to enable features like nS.

Quote
The Brymen 7 series is newer and has more features, although it is less accurate.

It's actually more accurate than the 869 on DC current.
 

Offline MiroS

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3811 on: November 10, 2020, 11:18:37 pm »
I would like to know what firmware changes and what bugs were fixed on the Brymen 786 apart from getting the nS function.

The code base will almost certainly be identical on models, there would just be flags in the software to enable features like nS.

Quote
The Brymen 7 series is newer and has more features, although it is less accurate.

It's actually more accurate than the 869 on DC current.


1/
It looks like the 150USD gone sky-high to 188USD and with tax  ... 184USD   :-/O ( 158.82 € excl. VAT )
https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM786-Multimeter-EEVBlog-Edition_1

2/
Available from 10.01.2021, other models are also presented, like BM785 Available from 24.12.2020 for  125.21 € excl. VAT ,  BM789  starting 24.12.2020 for  150.42 € excl. VAT
Eee, really rationaly  thinking will be to  skip BM786 and  go for less expensive and better  BM789 , avaiable  earlier

3/
Overal spec is not bad, but actually DC current accurancy is not that important, but AC indeed is quite important if specified for  wide frequency range.

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3812 on: November 10, 2020, 11:37:44 pm »
1/
It looks like the 150USD gone sky-high to 188USD and with tax  ... 184USD   :-/O ( 158.82 € excl. VAT )
https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM786-Multimeter-EEVBlog-Edition_1

2/
Available from 10.01.2021, other models are also presented, like BM785 Available from 24.12.2020 for  125.21 € excl. VAT ,  BM789  starting 24.12.2020 for  150.42 € excl. VAT
Eee, really rationaly  thinking will be to  skip BM786 and  go for less expensive and better  BM789 , avaiable  earlier

If it's more than the 789 then that's pretty dumb pricing. I can sell it for well under US$150.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3813 on: November 10, 2020, 11:54:17 pm »
1/
It looks like the 150USD gone sky-high to 188USD and with tax  ... 184USD   :-/O ( 158.82 € excl. VAT )
https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM786-Multimeter-EEVBlog-Edition_1

FYI I don't know where they got "paperwhite backlight" or that image from, but the backlight certainly doesn't look like that white or even.
 

Offline MiroS

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3814 on: November 11, 2020, 12:28:57 am »
1/
It looks like the 150USD gone sky-high to 188USD and with tax  ... 184USD   :-/O ( 158.82 € excl. VAT )
https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM786-Multimeter-EEVBlog-Edition_1

FYI I don't know where they got "paperwhite backlight" or that image from, but the backlight certainly doesn't look like that white or even.

paper-white is in Brymen pdf file.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3815 on: November 11, 2020, 12:40:29 am »
1/
It looks like the 150USD gone sky-high to 188USD and with tax  ... 184USD   :-/O ( 158.82 € excl. VAT )
https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM786-Multimeter-EEVBlog-Edition_1

FYI I don't know where they got "paperwhite backlight" or that image from, but the backlight certainly doesn't look like that white or even.

paper-white is in Brymen pdf file.

So it is. I hadn't seen the datasheet before. Well, don't expect "paper white".
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3816 on: November 14, 2020, 04:05:21 pm »
Just a short update.

As Dave mentioned, Brymen sent me a second BM786.  I have continued to provide them with feedback which they take very seriously.  It's been a night and day difference working with Brymen compared to say Gossen (and other companies). 

I understand that solving problems takes time.  As responsive as they have been, I suspect Brymen's team of engineers have been working in overdrive to continued to improve their design prior to release.   We should have something ready in the next week or two.  I'm looking forward to showing it off to you.

Shown are the two 786 test meters  (note, the 181A is back on the charger). 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
The following users thanked this post: Cliff Matthews, Eltax1693

Offline Chalton_trc

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3817 on: November 14, 2020, 09:01:34 pm »
I have seen the 2 videos of the Brymen 786 tests, part 1 and part 2. Congratulations, great job. If brymen sent you a new meter with the problems solved, could you do a new test to see if the bugs in videos 1 and 2 are solved? Test only the faults. What worked well is not necessary. It would be a lot of work to do the same thing again.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3818 on: November 14, 2020, 09:31:10 pm »
That's the plan Stan.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline nightfire

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3819 on: November 14, 2020, 10:30:26 pm »

1/
It looks like the 150USD gone sky-high to 188USD and with tax  ... 184USD   :-/O ( 158.82 € excl. VAT )
https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM786-Multimeter-EEVBlog-Edition_1

2/
Available from 10.01.2021, other models are also presented, like BM785 Available from 24.12.2020 for  125.21 € excl. VAT ,  BM789  starting 24.12.2020 for  150.42 € excl. VAT
Eee, really rationaly  thinking will be to  skip BM786 and  go for less expensive and better  BM789 , avaiable  earlier

3/
Overal spec is not bad, but actually DC current accurancy is not that important, but AC indeed is quite important if specified for  wide frequency range.

On the Welectron Shop site, now the 786EEV, 789 and 859s are offered for the same price: 158.82 excl. sales tax. (ok, 158.83 for the 859s, but thats close enough...)
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3820 on: November 17, 2020, 10:31:04 pm »
Just how good are Brymen's team of engineers?   You be the judge!

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline Chalton_trc

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3821 on: November 17, 2020, 11:51:14 pm »
Although it measures a bit below the BM879 and Uni-T 181, the new improvements make me like the BM786 more than the BM869 for my work. Great job as always Joe. Thank you so much.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3822 on: November 18, 2020, 12:35:48 am »
Although it measures a bit below the BM879 and Uni-T 181, the new improvements make me like the BM786 more than the BM869 for my work. Great job as always Joe. Thank you so much.

It's actually closer but some idiot had forgotten to turn off the VFD mode before starting the test.  Someone had post about the bargraph not working in that last test as well.  This is disabled when VFD is selected. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3823 on: November 18, 2020, 08:30:14 am »
Interesting to see the Fluke 87V falling apart in tests where even a Uni-T keeps on going.   :P

And ... yet more confirmation that Brymen is the new king of multimeter manufacturers.
 

Offline MiroS

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3824 on: November 18, 2020, 10:25:57 am »
And ... yet more confirmation that Brymen is the new king of multimeter manufacturers.

Fluke should bring back 189 to make market position harder to Brymen. That old 189 is still better than this new Brymen (neglecting the price)

Not checked manuall, they for sure described this, but I noticed that 60000 counts is not a full '60000'.
AC is cut to two digits after dot, the same for  resistance, same for current , that looks sometimes more like 6000 than 60000.
Actually e.g. 1mOhm resolution would be really very usefull.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 10:31:10 am by MiroS »
 


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