Handheld meter robustness testing

[tautech]

Poll is now open. 

Seems locked here.

[Muttley Snickers]

Poll is now open. 

Seems locked here.

It worked fine for me.   
I voted for the Keysight which was probably a bad idea on my part. If it happens to fail miserably then the U1282A I have new in the box will become worthless value wise.   

[joeqsmith]

It's too bad that Keysight's first meter did so poorly and they never responded to any of my emails.   If enough people vote for it, I'll give them another chance.   

[rsjsouza]

Despite I would like to see how the Keysight would fare, I voted for the Sanwa as it is a brand that never crossed paths with the zapperman 

[Fungus]

I voted for the BM857s, not because I think it will fail but because I own one and I think Brymen's "industrial" range need more love.

PS: Don't forget to do the piece of string mod if you own one. 

[joeqsmith]

Looks like the Benning fan club lost all their members. 

[nightfire]

To be honest, here in germany Benning is famous for its Duspol brand (voltage testers)and in newer time for their application/device testers, not the multimeters...

[joeqsmith]

It's possible the people requesting I look at Benning were sales and marketing.  They may have only had a short presence on this forum.   Oddly enough is how many people have commented about running the top of the line HIOKI but it's lagging.

[armandine2]

It's possible the people requesting I look at .....

Want fireworks or reputation

[joeqsmith]

That's up to the viewers to decide.  I have no idea how the Benning would hold up having never looked at one. 

[Muttley Snickers]

The multimeter poll is currently neck and neck, and way more exciting than our federal election.   

When will it end?    and what happens if there is a draw?    

[joeqsmith]

We need a larger sample size.   

[tautech]

The multimeter poll is currently neck and neck, and way more exciting than our federal election.   

When will it end?    and what happens if there is a draw?   

TBH I want Joe to fry the KS and have them tell him as he is not a professional they will not support one of the products they have sold him. 
And voted such.   

[PushUp]

...to make it a bit more exciting, I have a proposal:

I bought three "Gossen Metrawatt PM XTRA" via my local ebay from the same source. Normally you have to pay between 819,51 Euro and 915,11 Euro for one PMXTRA here in germany.







The PMXTRA is DAkkS calibrated from 2021-08 till 2023-02 with documents and it is new and nearly unused apart from some test measurements.

I would sell it for 400 Euro and take over the shipping which could be worth 20 - 30 Euro from Germany to the US, when 20000 participants give you 0,02 Euro each via PayPal or something like that.

However, in order to reduce shipping weight, I would keep the box and the test leads, thus you only get the PMXTRA within its green Holster and the papers. I would declare it as a "gift" to get rid of tax & Co.

The PMXTRA works fine, but when you use the backlight, there is a spot visible (between the "n" and the "F". My guess is, that it is a part of a foil, but I don't know, but would like to know:







As you intend to destroy it anyway (this version does not have relays), you could desolder the display to solve the mystery...thus I would be fine with my "bad" investment! ;-)

It is up to you or your 20000 followers - it is the one on the left:







Cheers!

[joeqsmith]

Thanks for the offer.  I'm really only interested on if GSM had added a shield to the Prime or if it is still the same as my Ultra. 

[PushUp]

You are old enough to know the answer... 

When even ProbeMaster is not willing to put a plastic cap onto the end of their test leads, which Brymen does now with their 11 Euro silicon version since their latest batch, there is only one conclusion: When brands always and forever have copied ideas from others, they have no problem to be more flexible in changing/improving their products more often, whereas those inventing things on their own from scratch do have probably more principles and are more arrogant thus they do not care:

As far as Gossen Metrawatt GmbH is concerned, which is a member of GMC INSTRUMENTS-Group, there are even more hurdles to take, to get heared, because they will argue that you can buy any DMM for any purpose and that the PM PRIME BT is not the right one, when you need to use a strong magnet in front of the DMM... 

...but I will tell you in roughly 3 years time, when the guarantee of my PM PRIME (no BT) is over... 


Cheers! 

[joeqsmith]

Someone had wrote me about how GMW had told them that they had added the shielding.  I don't know the answer and why I offered to have another look. 

GMW offers a magnetic hanger for the Prime.   I'm in the process of designing a magnetic hanger that is nonmagnetic.  Cutting edge stuff.   Right there with the wireless ESD wrist strap. 

[joeqsmith]

Someone finally voted for Benning.   

Looks like the KS is starting to pull away.  Shame on me for adding it to the poll at the last minute.      You KS fan boys do know I'm not going to open the box and talk about how great the product is without turning it on so you can feel good about your purchases.  Keysight, if you're out there, hope you have your shit together.   

13 week lead time.  I'll start hunting around for stock. 

***
Also, I want to thank everyone who took the time to vote.   

[mqsaharan]

You KS fan boys do know I'm not going to open the box and talk about how great the product is without turning it on so you can feel good about your purchases.  Keysight, if you're out there, hope you have your shit together.

That is the idea here.

Patiently waiting for your review of KS (if KS will be the final pick). Keeping in mind the slow response of GTDs and no MOVs in the circuit, my guess is it will not perform well with the transient testing, something like U1231A you tested. I may be wrong and the circuit may have better protection built into it. Only your practical tests will tell.
Would you kindly compare its functionality with 121GW (that is common among both) as both these meters are using the same DMM front end chip HY3131.
And thank you Joe for your efforts. Not many people including myself have tools and knowledge to check their equipment's limitations.

[AVGresponding]

Someone finally voted for Benning.   

Looks like the KS is starting to pull away.  Shame on me for adding it to the poll at the last minute.      You KS fan boys do know I'm not going to open the box and talk about how great the product is without turning it on so you can feel good about your purchases.  Keysight, if you're out there, hope you have your shit together.   

13 week lead time.  I'll start hunting around for stock. 

***
Also, I want to thank everyone who took the time to vote.

Maybe we just want to see the Keysight pushed until it gives up the magic smoke and turns crispy...   

[Fungus]

Looks like the KS is starting to pull away.

Sock puppets. 

[joeqsmith]

... Patiently waiting for your review of KS (if KS will be the final pick).

Assuming I can get my hands on one, I will be running the KS.  Maybe the higher end model.  Depends on what's available.

Keeping in mind the slow response of GTDs and no MOVs in the circuit, my guess is it will not perform well with the transient testing, something like U1231A you tested. I may be wrong and the circuit may have better protection built into it. Only your practical tests will tell.

I had looked at the 1282A's front end 7 years ago.



Suggesting that GDTs are not as good as MOV for this application is based on ignorance.  If KS has their shit together (designer's did their job and were unhindered by marketing and sales), there is no reason for this meter to fail.  While the low end one I looked at had glass filled plastic that cracked in a couple thousand switch cycles and was damaged a levels the cheap Amprobe AM510 and Fluke 101 would survive,  I would hope that KS's high end meter will do well.   After all, they shouldn't be cutting costs at this price point.  Still, who puts ridged plastic into a spring design and doesn't test it.  No excuse for this. 

Of course I have looked at other meters that used a combination of GDTs, PTCs and high speed clamps to protect the meter without a MOV.   Both the Hioki DT4252 and Gossen Metrawatt Ultra M248B.  While the Hioki meter did eventually break down, none of the electronics were damaged.   The GMW was never damaged. 

Would you kindly compare its functionality with 121GW (that is common among both) as both these meters are using the same DMM front end chip HY3131.
And thank you Joe for your efforts. Not many people including myself have tools and knowledge to check their equipment's limitations.

The easiest way to compare functionality is read both manuals.   Obviously the 121GW has some trick circuits in it, but the product is not very robust and the firmware is not polished and that crazy switch and story that goes with it isn't something you can make up.   Both meters are now fairly old and have been reviewed in detail.  Let me know if there is something specific you would like to see that has not been covered.

When I damaged the prototype 121GW, I asked Dave about using the damaged KS meter for parts.   I was surprised after his video on the KS that he would agree to use that same IC in a meter he was going to endorse.    If the KS is damaged, I have a 121GW that I may be able to use as a parts unit to revive it. 

[joeqsmith]

Looks like the KS is starting to pull away.

Sock puppets. 

Much like any other voting.  Very few will take the time to vote.  Many will bitch about how the vote turned out.   An infinite amount of resources is then spent trying to change the the outcome.   

[mqsaharan]

Hi Joe,
You are right, I made a stupid mistake suggesting that GDTs are not as good as MOVs. I am sorry. Of course you've looked at the meters without MOVs that performed well, I just forgot while writing that message. Thank you for setting me straight and for the video suggestions.
Regarding the request for meter comparison, again I forgot you usually compare a bunch of meters while checking their functionality. I don't have anything particular in mind to test.
Seems like I have forgotten quite a few things. I need to refresh my memory and knowledge.
Qasim.

[joeqsmith]

Hi Joe,
You are right, I made a stupid mistake suggesting that GDTs are not as good as MOVs. I am sorry. Of course you've looked at the meters without MOVs that performed well, I just forgot while writing that message. Thank you for setting me straight and for the video suggestions.
Regarding the request for meter comparison, again I forgot you usually compare a bunch of meters while checking their functionality. I don't have anything particular in mind to test.
Seems like I have forgotten quite a few things. I need to refresh my memory and knowledge.
Qasim.

What you wrote wasn't stupid and there was no need to be sorry.  I just wanted to make you aware of the work that had been done.   

I think the word "ignorance" has taken on a new meaning beyond how it's currently defined.   People take offense to it.    From Merriam-Webster:  lack of knowledge, education, or awareness.  I personally am ignorant about pretty much any subject you can come up with, including electronics and how to test meters.  Sadly, while I have dedicated much of my life to improving that, the older I get the more ignorant I become, or at least the more I am aware of my ignorance!   

Where "stupid" is defined as
a : slow of mind : obtuse
b : given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner
c : lacking intelligence or reason : brutish

Example:
Amazon has the U1282A in stock but I am not so stupid as to pay their asking price!