Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter robustness testing  (Read 648352 times)

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1150 on: March 02, 2017, 06:28:20 pm »
They both made it in. 

Sharing the current input is never a good idea. I don't think any meter has survived where the designers have done this.  Does anyone think this meter will survive the new ESD test?   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline MacMeter

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1151 on: March 02, 2017, 07:04:29 pm »
My ZT102 came as well, I have to go pick it up locally. All I can do here is compare it to my BM235. Since I most likely will never use it for current measurements, at least I won't have to waste time looking for replacement fuses! :) For $20 delivered I figured why not, I'm sure it will be better for little home measurements then the old clamshell RadioShack pocket meters.

As far as your question:

I'm going to say it's going to FAIL your ESD test, not that I'm rooting for that outcome. As always I look forward to your video!
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1152 on: March 02, 2017, 07:58:56 pm »
Interesting '101' copy.  There are several re-brands with teardown videos on youtube and the creepages are again too narrow at the inputs, so its unlikely to meet it CAT III 600V rating  :o.  My guess it will arc somewhere at the arrows, as you apply the pulse to each input. 

They both made it in. 

Sharing the current input is never a good idea. I don't think any meter has survived where the designers have done this.  Does anyone think this meter will survive the new ESD test?   
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1153 on: March 03, 2017, 01:32:45 am »
Anyone trace it out?  Looking at the pictures, just the one PTC and what looks like a transistor clamp.   Ditch the 10A and mA.  Leave the mV DC, temp and backlight.  Leave the crappy switch.  Add a few parts and make the thing survive. 

Caught some of Dave's live show tonight and is sounds like he is suggesting that the 121GW will not be as robust as the 235 because of the size.  I'm sure it will be better than my sponge prototypes.   With my tests not putting out much energy, it may do better than he expects. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline kcbrown

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1154 on: March 03, 2017, 01:47:23 am »
How can Dave rightly call it the "121GW" unless it would survive a 1.21GW burst of electricity?    :D


(Sent with Tapatalk, so apologies for the lackluster formatting)
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1155 on: March 03, 2017, 11:53:26 pm »
How can Dave rightly call it the "121GW" unless it would survive a 1.21GW burst of electricity?    :D


(Sent with Tapatalk, so apologies for the lackluster formatting)

 :-DD :-DD

Right, Fluke 101 or the 121GW, which would Doc use?   :-DD   The name does seem to make you think it would survive a pretty big hit. 

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline zaoka

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1156 on: March 04, 2017, 05:12:17 pm »
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1157 on: March 04, 2017, 09:45:34 pm »
Would be nice to test new Metrix line... http://www.chauvin-arnoux.com/en/produit/mtx-3291.html?liste=/en/produits/31/98/multimeters/trms-digital-multimeters.html

Nobody tested these yet?

I assume with the cost, it puts it out of the range of what most hobbyists would spend.  They may buy a more common like Fluke or Gossen.  Maybe TE will send one to Dave for a review.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1158 on: March 05, 2017, 02:54:54 am »
Would be nice to test new Metrix line... http://www.chauvin-arnoux.com/en/produit/mtx-3291.html?liste=/en/produits/31/98/multimeters/trms-digital-multimeters.html

Nobody tested these yet?

I assume with the cost, it puts it out of the range of what most hobbyists would spend.  They may buy a more common like Fluke or Gossen.  Maybe TE will send one to Dave for a review.   

Are you still planning to run the ESD tests on the ZT102?
Thanks!
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1159 on: March 05, 2017, 03:06:37 am »
Would be nice to test new Metrix line... http://www.chauvin-arnoux.com/en/produit/mtx-3291.html?liste=/en/produits/31/98/multimeters/trms-digital-multimeters.html

Nobody tested these yet?

I assume with the cost, it puts it out of the range of what most hobbyists would spend.  They may buy a more common like Fluke or Gossen.  Maybe TE will send one to Dave for a review.   

Are you still planning to run the ESD tests on the ZT102?
Thanks!

I sometimes run the ESD before the AC line test.  Normally, the meters are subjected to all of the tests until they fail.  Since I started doing ESD testing, it looks like the only meter I did not test was the TPI 194II  and that was because it was damaged during the AC line test.   Interesting is someone posted a comment on YT about me not running that test on all the meters.  Strange. 

I finished running the ZT102.  It did not perform like I was expecting.   The video is going to have some extra bonus content in there as well.  I should have it edited and uploaded soon. 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 10:50:29 am by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline MacMeter

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1160 on: March 05, 2017, 03:43:04 am »
Would be nice to test new Metrix line... http://www.chauvin-arnoux.com/en/produit/mtx-3291.html?liste=/en/produits/31/98/multimeters/trms-digital-multimeters.html

Nobody tested these yet?

I assume with the cost, it puts it out of the range of what most hobbyists would spend.  They may buy a more common like Fluke or Gossen.  Maybe TE will send one to Dave for a review.   

Are you still planning to run the ESD tests on the ZT102?
Thanks!

I sometimes with run the ESD before the AC line test.  Normally, the meters are subjected to all of the tests until they fail.  Since I started doing ESD testing, it looks like the only meter I did not test was the TPI 194II  and that was because it was damaged during the AC line test.   Interesting is someone posted a comment on YT about me not running that test on all the meters.  Strange. 

I finished running the ZT102.  It did not perform like I was expecting.   The video is going to have some extra bonus content in there as well.  I should have it edited and uploaded soon.

Thanks, the suspense is killing me! :)

The ZT102 seemed within spec, and close in basic home AC/DC and temp readings to my BM235, not using it to measure current. I did learn that unlike the BM235 you can use 1.8v Energizer lithium batteries to run it, get those cheap Chinese AAA leakers out of there! It's a bit flimsy feeling compared to the BM235, but at 1/6th the cost, I was not expecting much to begin with. While the LCD screen is not as good as the 235, it suffers from the disappearing characters when looking from a top down angle, the 235 screen suffers that as well, just not as badly.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1161 on: March 05, 2017, 06:24:19 pm »
I'm finished with editing and it's uploading while I post.   

For me personally, I would take the BM235 over the ZT102/AN8002 for basic electrical work any day.  Sure, it costs a little more but its also certified and is a lot more robust.   If I needed a pocket meter for light electrical work,  I would still go with the 101.  I have no need for current or the TRMS feature and I am not at all a fan of having a shared current input.  I would rather have the robustness the 101 offers.   

For the bench, I'll stick with the Brymen BM869s for now.  It's not as robust as some of the meters I have looked at but it has many features that I tend to use.  I think my next pick would be that CEM DT9939 that Ruby sold for $120.  That was a deal.  Again, not a super robust meter, lots of drift with temperature but hard to beat that price with the features.   

If the UNI-T UT181A had been more robust (electrically and mechanically) along with addressing the other concerns I have with it, it would be a very nice meter.  As it comes from the factory, I'm not impressed with it but I feel it's better than the TPI 194II was. Now that was an over priced princess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrcxnbkkhYg&feature=youtu.be
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline MacMeter

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1162 on: March 05, 2017, 09:35:13 pm »
I'm finished with editing and it's uploading while I post.   

For me personally, I would take the BM235 over the ZT102/AN8002 for basic electrical work any day.  Sure, it costs a little more but its also certified and is a lot more robust.   If I needed a pocket meter for light electrical work,  I would still go with the 101.  I have no need for current or the TRMS feature and I am not at all a fan of having a shared current input.  I would rather have the robustness the 101 offers.   

For the bench, I'll stick with the Brymen BM869s for now.  It's not as robust as some of the meters I have looked at but it has many features that I tend to use.  I think my next pick would be that CEM DT9939 that Ruby sold for $120.  That was a deal.  Again, not a super robust meter, lots of drift with temperature but hard to beat that price with the features.   

If the UNI-T UT181A had been more robust (electrically and mechanically) along with addressing the other concerns I have with it, it would be a very nice meter.  As it comes from the factory, I'm not impressed with it but I feel it's better than the TPI 194II was. Now that was an over priced princess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrcxnbkkhYg&feature=youtu.be

I haven't seen that screw driver tester in 30 years, nice find.

Awesome test! You made the ZT102 hop, skip, and then turn into a 4th of July fireworks display! Excellent SLOW MO shot.
I didn't think it would get as far as it did. I'm still interested in the Woods meter, just to have in my travel bag, but again was surprised the ZT102 did better overall in robust tests, perhaps the UL listing makes the Woods cost more?

Do you think the ZT102 would pass tests for a UL listing?

Thanks for testing the fuse as well, since I'll never use the ZT for current, good to know if I blow the fuse, it will still work in the other modes, can't thank you enough for revealing that! I'm tired of tracking down oddball replacement fuses.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1163 on: March 06, 2017, 01:31:27 pm »
I didn't think it would get as far as it did. I'm still interested in the Woods meter, just to have in my travel bag, but again was surprised the ZT102 did better overall in robust tests, perhaps the UL listing makes the Woods cost more?

Do you think the ZT102 would pass tests for a UL listing?

Thanks for testing the fuse as well, since I'll never use the ZT for current, good to know if I blow the fuse, it will still work in the other modes, can't thank you enough for revealing that! I'm tired of tracking down oddball replacement fuses.

Having any product certified will cost money.  Going for both the safety as well as EMC will cost even more.  And if you don't do your job as a designer, it's not like UL will give you a free pass if your product fails.  You pay again.  This is why most will test their products during the development cycle rather than waiting until the last minute.  And sure, that cost is going to be added on.

I really have no idea if the ZT102 would pass the safety standards or not.  I am not even sure what it means to pass.  I'll leave that to the experts to sort out.   

One thing I can tell you, like I mentioned in the video, I have exposed that Fluke 101 to all the transients I have shown (except the highest level that eventually damaged 5KY's Fluke 107)  and you have never seen sparks or flames emit from it. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1164 on: March 06, 2017, 04:28:26 pm »
Not a bad little meter for low voltage hobby use.

(I think it needs uA though)

« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 05:48:28 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1165 on: March 06, 2017, 05:47:34 pm »
I haven't seen that screw driver tester in 30 years, nice find.

Am I the only person still using one of these? :popcorn:



(just kidding, I'm not really... I remember using on in my youth though)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 05:49:48 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1166 on: March 06, 2017, 06:50:41 pm »
I haven't seen that screw driver tester in 30 years, nice find.

Am I the only person still using one of these? :popcorn:



(just kidding, I'm not really... I remember using on in my youth though)


I like some of John Wards videos.  This one seems to have struck a nerve.  He may have my first video showing the UT139C getting damaged beat.   :-DD :-DD   Funny thing about that video is add a little review to it, then watch it die at the same level then it's ok.   :-DD



I wish Photonicinduction were creating content again.  I really enjoyed following him. 



How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1167 on: March 08, 2017, 02:55:35 am »
The spreadsheet has been updated to include the ZT102.  I also took out the KT6000 also known as the AN860B and took the continuity data for it.  This is included in the spreadsheet as well.   Watched a couple of videos on it.   

His freq test shows it is much worse than the ZT102.  That thing had no problems at 200MHz.   




How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline BroMarduk

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1168 on: March 08, 2017, 04:11:51 am »
Not a bad little meter for low voltage hobby use.

(I think it needs uA though)

The Zotek ZT98/Aneng AN8004 has the microamp setting.   Why not get one of each. :)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 04:16:08 am by BroMarduk »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1169 on: March 08, 2017, 09:53:34 am »
The Zotek ZT98/Aneng AN8004 has the microamp setting.   Why not get one of each. :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172513539473

So it does... and cheaper, too!

But no capacitance or temperature - you can't win.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1170 on: March 08, 2017, 12:45:41 pm »
The KT6000 is TRMS, has temp, uA, a relative mode and the current inputs are not shared.   They claim CAT IV 600V.  Has 250V glass fuses and one vary small PTC and two transistors for the input protection.  Lots of room inside.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline BroMarduk

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1171 on: March 08, 2017, 03:48:15 pm »
So it does... and cheaper, too!

But no capacitance or temperature - you can't win.

I won't even mention that the cheaper sibling is only 2000 count.   Still I got one of each on order for the price....as well as a Aneng ANG860B+ (Zoltek ZT17B+/Kasuntest 6000).   Based on some review videos the frequency and measurements on the smaller meters are better but the larger has a few more features (min/max - manual ranging) that might come in handy.   Plus I can't wait to test out some 20A circuits with it!  :bullshit:

I also noticed that while the meters seem to be identical on the outside, they tend to sell in different price ranges...

Aneng (Cheapest) http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANG860B-Digital-Multimeter-Backlight-Auto-Ammeter-Voltmeter-Ohm-Portable-Meter-/282298159352?hash=item41ba4810f8:g:acIAAOSwux5YWaCU
Zoltek (More Expensive) http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZOTEK-VC17B-Auto-Manual-Ranging-LCD-Display-Multimeter-with-Thermocouple-/282371228533?hash=item41bea30375:g:e1QAAOSwB-1Yps2g
Kasuntest (Most Expensive) http://www.ebay.com/itm/KASUNTEST-6000-Counts-TRMS-Auto-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter-with-Capacitance-Hz-/282318275160?hash=item41bb7b0258:g:bOMAAOSwUKxYcR1~

which makes me wonder if there are any internal differences - I can't imagine the probes being that much of a differentiator...
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 03:52:24 pm by BroMarduk »
 

Offline BroMarduk

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1172 on: March 09, 2017, 02:50:50 pm »
The KT6000 is TRMS, has temp, uA, a relative mode and the current inputs are not shared.   They claim CAT IV 600V.  Has 250V glass fuses and one vary small PTC and two transistors for the input protection.  Lots of room inside.

I received the Aneng version of the KT6000 yesterday and played with it for a bit and was quite impressed feature-wise.  I can see this replacing the 17B+ for my microcontroller testing work which has been a bit of a let down.  The continuity seems as good as on the ZT102 (and dare I say some high end flukes) and it has the micro-amp setting.  It measured a 1pF capacitor (at 3pF with the leads RELed out vs 1.7pf on Peak Atlas LCR) and a 10000uF capacitor (took close to 10 seconds to get to Mf range, but it DID show a fairly accurate value).  It would light LEDs (Red - White) with displayed voltage and test Zener diodes up to around 3V.  Measured 10MOhm resistor and 1.2 within specs.

Thanks for blowing up all these meters in the name of science, Joe. - Can't wait for the robustness testing on the KT6000 and still waiting for the ZT102 based meter to arrive via slow boat.






 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1173 on: March 10, 2017, 11:34:21 pm »
3pf?! Wow! Have you tried running it up to 20A? Have you checked to see if yours would measure higher than 8MHz.   

I have not done anything with mine yet.  Maybe this weekend.  If you run into a problem with yours and want me to try something, just ask.  Rare these meters survive my reviews.... 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline kcbrown

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1174 on: March 11, 2017, 12:37:05 am »
Thanks for blowing up all these meters in the name of science, Joe. - Can't wait for the robustness testing on the KT6000 and still waiting for the ZT102 based meter to arrive via slow boat.

@joeqsmith, I think you should put "blowing up meters in the name of science" in your signature.   ;D
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 12:39:01 am by kcbrown »
 
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