Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter robustness testing  (Read 648771 times)

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Offline BroMarduk

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1175 on: March 11, 2017, 01:05:19 am »
I was just kidding about doing a 20A test with it.  I don't have the Lexan-protected safe box to do testing like you do...I'll probably keep this meter in a mA ranges max.

As for frequency at 500mV, 1V and 5V the best I could do stably was 10MHz.   After that is sometimes would show the higher frequency briefly before going to all 0's - up to 20MHz then, nothing.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1176 on: March 11, 2017, 01:59:15 am »
I was just kidding about doing a 20A test with it.  I don't have the Lexan-protected safe box to do testing like you do...I'll probably keep this meter in a mA ranges max.

Too late to back out now.  >:D

Direct Current
20A +/-1.5%+3, res 10mA
Max measuring voltage drop: measuring range 20A is 200mV
Max input current: 20A (no more than 10 seconds)
Overload protection: 20A/250V fuse

For AC, is basically the same except
Max input current: 10A (no more than 15 seconds)

Think that's a 20A 250V glass fuse in there?  I don't have another meter that claims 20A and my bench supply is good for 6A.   

But I think I can get us a constant 20A and the Brymen can read 20A with a pretty low drop.  Wonder what current that little baby shunt will open up at.  :-//

As for frequency at 500mV, 1V and 5V the best I could do stably was 10MHz.   After that is sometimes would show the higher frequency briefly before going to all 0's - up to 20MHz then, nothing.

The manual has a CAUTION about auto range only in frequency mode.   I wonder if they won't switch to the low range.  Did you try both the mv and volts functions?  Same results?
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1177 on: March 11, 2017, 02:01:44 am »
I wonder if there is something that could be adjusted to get it to read higher than 10MHz.   Pretty sad after seeing that pocket meter up at 200MHz.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1178 on: March 11, 2017, 02:09:18 am »
" I don't understand why this guy damages all multimeters?!?"
 :-DD
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1179 on: March 11, 2017, 02:28:02 am »
" I don't understand why this guy damages all multimeters?!?"
 :-DD

And .... we just love ya for doing it!
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1180 on: March 11, 2017, 02:42:14 am »
" I don't understand why this guy damages all multimeters?!?"
 :-DD

And .... we just love ya for doing it!
:-DD

Brymen with my 1mV/A shunt and KT6000 direct.  No doubt the Brymen and shunt will take 20A.  I wonder about the leads they supply with this thing.  Maybe I should include them when I run it.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1181 on: March 11, 2017, 02:51:10 am »
Quote
Ig Saturation   5 days ago   
Excellent as always Joe.  It blew close to where I thought it would, and the arc energy atomized the tracings with it.  You could get another blast off that meter by doing the 10A input.

It does appear the 10A circuit survived.  We can't have that.   Time to get the window fan out....
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline BroMarduk

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1182 on: March 11, 2017, 05:47:26 am »
The manual has a CAUTION about auto range only in frequency mode.   I wonder if they won't switch to the low range.  Did you try both the mv and volts functions?  Same results?

With V setting, I can get 100KHz at 20V (the V max on the Func Gen) or 80KHz at 5V.   Much worse than with mV

1Hz seems to be the bottom of the range on both V an mV.   

I couldn't find any way to turn off AUTO mode for frequency.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1183 on: March 12, 2017, 12:57:48 am »
It won't be long now....  Can it out survive Fluke's golden standard 87V...
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1184 on: March 12, 2017, 09:30:08 pm »
The spreadsheet and video for the KT6000 have been uploaded.



How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline BroMarduk

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1185 on: March 12, 2017, 09:59:30 pm »
One thing I noticed was that the Duty Cycle % go way off as you increase past 100KHz.  Both sine and square waves were spot on to 100KHz then started drifting.   I'll take some measurements later tonight and post what I mean.  I think it just means that the 100KHz is the ceiling for accuracy across frequency.  Ironically, its where a couple of the Fluke meters cap frequency at...

Also, my meter exhibits the same issue going from AC-DC-AC where it under-reads after going back to AC.  It has shown similar behavior when switching between modes like resistance and capacitance.  I've found myself going to off first when switching modes which is totally not cool.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 10:17:56 pm by BroMarduk »
 

Offline MacMeter

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1186 on: March 12, 2017, 10:37:23 pm »
The spreadsheet and video for the KT6000 have been uploaded.



FIRE & SMOKE reward when you get to the end of the video, NICE!
Some manual spec busting too.

If I'm interpreting this video and the ZT-102 video, correctly, while lacking some of the extra features, it seems the ZT-102 is overall more robust, correct?
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1187 on: March 13, 2017, 01:40:08 am »
FIRE & SMOKE reward when you get to the end of the video, NICE!
Some manual spec busting too.

If I'm interpreting this video and the ZT-102 video, correctly, while lacking some of the extra features, it seems the ZT-102 is overall more robust, correct?

The ZT102 was damaged at 3KV.  The KT6000 was damaged at 4KV.  So no, I would not interpret the ZT102 as being more robust. 

Your interpretation may only consider the voltage modes of the two meters where I am looking for any electrical failure. 

The two Fluke videos I linked of the 87V are interesting as they don't functional test the meter between levels and they only test the one mode.  Can the 87V really survive the levels they show in during the video, clearly it depends on the test procedure.  It did very poorly in my testing because I look at all the modes and test the meters between each level.   

The Hioki was a rare exception where electrically the meter was not damaged but the plastic was starting to melt.  The meter could have done much better in the tests had the plastic insert been extended.  So I made a note of it and moved on. 

It is because of these details that I leave the videos on-line.  If someone has a question about what was done, or how a meter failed, they just need to watch the video.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline Vgkid

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1188 on: March 13, 2017, 03:15:50 am »
These ZT/KT meter versions are rather afforable.
As a spare meter for electrical/car wirk it would either be one of these, or the more expensive am-510a.
Anyone tried the AM-500A?
If you own any North Hills Electronics gear, message me. L&N Fan
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1189 on: March 13, 2017, 11:03:10 pm »
These ZT/KT meter versions are rather afforable.
As a spare meter for electrical/car wirk it would either be one of these, or the more expensive am-510a.
Anyone tried the AM-500A?

Yes, you can save a lot of money on a product by not having them certified, use glass in place of HRC fuses, use stamped connectors, leave out MOVs, don't test your software, used a single LED for your back light....  It all adds up. 

The HF free meters are very affordable as well. For garage work, why not.  Of course the new ones you can't replace the fuse, there is no back light, no beeper.....    But they are inexpensive.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1190 on: March 13, 2017, 11:38:02 pm »
The KT6000 shunt was pretty small.  Here are the ones I had saved.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1191 on: March 15, 2017, 11:06:04 pm »
Wow, we broke 2000 followers.  Dave mentioned that the GW121 may be a while yet.  Seems I have seen that post before so starting to look at the runner up in the poll, Gossen.  I think unlike what I did with Keysight where I bought a lower cost meter to run, I would like to buy something that I would actually want to use. 

In the mean time, I had thought about making a video just about the shunts I had saved.  Maybe take some dimensions, make some calculations and then run them.  I bet Watt loading on some of them is really bad.  And who knows what material they use.  TCs may be all over the place.  Take them to failure like I did with the meter test leads and see what we can learn from it. 

If you have any thoughts on running them, feel free to chime in. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Vgkid

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1192 on: March 16, 2017, 05:50:02 am »
I look forward to the shunt shootout. Your tests look reasonable. The TC might be difficult, but it was something I have long been pondering.
That RS meter shunt looks massive, when compared to the others.
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1193 on: March 16, 2017, 05:03:28 pm »
That RS shunt is by far the largest I have seen in a handheld.  I think this video is going to be a David vs Goliath story except David looses big time.    :-DD

Metrahit looks interesting...
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Vgkid

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1194 on: March 16, 2017, 08:27:28 pm »
That RS shunt is by far the largest I have seen in a handheld.  I think this video is going to be a David vs Goliath story except David looses big time.    :-DD

Metrahit looks interesting...
It looks like it will go this way.
RS-760H/mm2000/UT61E....ZT102
This will be interesting. That ZT shunt might be good for a watt. If you measure the size/resistance, you can do some ebay shopping.
If you own any North Hills Electronics gear, message me. L&N Fan
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1195 on: March 17, 2017, 02:48:52 am »
The videos close to 30 minutes so far and I still have not damaged a shunt but not to worry..  :-DD
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1196 on: March 17, 2017, 11:28:17 pm »
Watched Dave's reviews of the Gossen power meter.  :--  No way I would spend over $1000 on a meter with a tacked on resistor.  Too bad, like some of the features.  Review was not too great.  Hardly turned the thing on.   

Looked at various pictures of the internals of other Gossen products.  Some look like they were made in the 90's. 

Now looking at the lower end Extra.  From the manual, they mention the KS30 for additional protection.  Search their site, nothing.   I would like to get the KS30 with it if I go this route but can't find anyone who carries it.   Time to send them an email.   

Quote
The multimeters are protected against transient overvoltages of
up to 8 kV with wave-front durations of 1.2 ms and halftimes of
50 ?s in the voltage measuring range. If longer pulse durations are
expected, for example when conducting measurements at transformers
or motors, we recommend the use of our KS30 measuring
adapter. It provides protection against transient
overvoltages of up to 6 kV with wave-front durations of 10, and
halftimes of 1000 ?s.
Continuous load capacity is 1200 VRMS. Additional influence error
caused by the KS30 measuring adapter amounts to approximately
-2%.
 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1197 on: March 19, 2017, 04:40:03 am »
The shunt testing is finished.  Was going to test the shunt out of the 121GW but the foam would not conduct.  And I thought it was the lowest burden meter out there.

Video should be up in the today sometime. (lack of sleep)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 12:08:52 pm by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Vgkid

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1198 on: March 19, 2017, 05:06:20 am »
The shunt testing is finished.  Was going to test the shunt out of the 121GW but the foam would not conduct.  And I thought it was the lowest burden meter out there.

Video should be up in the today sometime.
I'll be looking forward to it. I saw your post, and expected to see a video.
Is is just me, or do some of those shunts look different... :-BROKE >:D
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #1199 on: March 19, 2017, 12:19:22 pm »
Warning, its long.  12 shunts X 5 seconds per Ampere X (100A - 3A).  Even speeding this up, it's still about 45 minutes.  I ran some checks using nichrome wire as well. 


How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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