Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 502881 times)

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3325 on: April 14, 2019, 10:16:07 pm »
Dropping it from the roof onto concrete would similar to dropping a feather and watching it float.    :-DD   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3326 on: April 15, 2019, 12:26:04 am »
I may eat my hat later, but I suspect the smaller the trimmer, the less susceptible to a constant vibration it would be.

Obviously, if the equipment is subjected to a direct multi-G impact (from a fall), then I suspect the most fragile parts would be more susceptible to damage.

Oh, well... Let's wait for the video.
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3327 on: April 15, 2019, 02:09:05 am »
Another test is pack badly a meter for shipping or let in the back of a jeep , doing off road , with MEMS and data logger inside. Not quite exact science...
The video  will reveal a in a controller manner.
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3328 on: April 15, 2019, 03:14:15 am »
Even if we had a test car and paved test track, I doubt I could do a very good job repeating a test like this.    With the table, it's a closed loop system.   A step in the right direction but still, not exact science as you put it.   

FYI, the test board shown weight 18.97g.  The little Brymen pocket meter weighs 78g.   My Fluke 189, 545g.   

The trimmer package on the test board seems to be the most commonly used from the meters I have looked at. The Mastech MS8264 appears to use the same package but the MS8211 used a different part.     The Mastech I still have, MS8229, uses some larger plastic trimmers but it's a much older meter. 

The trimmers appear only on the low end meters and the most common are the ones show, so maybe we can learn something from it.  Like any rabbit hole, its just how deep we decide to go.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3329 on: April 15, 2019, 03:49:06 am »
A much better aproach and system than the car test dummy . Different styles of pot's, damages and... wires ;P  mastech MS8229 looks modular to the top board which looks the enviroment sensors.
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3330 on: April 15, 2019, 03:57:27 am »
Yes, the top board has the sensors on it.   This meter has a lot of features you won't normally see.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3331 on: April 15, 2019, 06:25:28 am »
At local market it currently selled the MS8229 which has luxometer, soundmeter, termometer , humidity. What about measuring sound  dB with MS8229 off the vibration plate?

Here is the meter at local store:

https://www.castroelectronica.pt/product/multimetro-digital-5-em-1-luxsonotermohigrometro--mastech-1

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3332 on: April 15, 2019, 06:36:58 am »
At local market it currently selled the MS8229 which has luxometer, soundmeter, termometer , humidity. What about measuring sound  dB with MS8229 off the vibration plate?
Sells for about $50 USD.  I am not sure what you are asking.  Do you want to know the sound level of the plate?   If so, do you just want the peak dBm and what frequency?  Keep in mind that I have no way to know if the the meter is in calibration.   It would be some relative number.  Not sure how it would relate to anything.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3333 on: April 15, 2019, 08:46:16 am »
Was asking peak volume on specific frequency applied to vibration and if we could correlate the applied vibration using sound meter. 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 08:48:14 am by malagas_on_fire »
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3334 on: April 15, 2019, 10:56:16 am »
Ok.  I think it would be VERY complex to come up with a set of equations to tie the sound level of this table to the vibration levels of something else.  At best, it seems like the start of your PHD.   The speakers, even though they have a table attached to them are still speakers and do a fairly good job making sound.  A car engine for example, not so much.   

I am rendering the next video.  This ones been in the works for several months.   Hope to release it in the next day.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3335 on: April 15, 2019, 06:39:45 pm »
Thanks for clarifying , no PhD at all just an idea for another project. Hope for the good video :P
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3336 on: April 16, 2019, 02:01:02 am »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3337 on: April 16, 2019, 04:17:25 am »
Joe, interesting tests, but when you mentioned "Mother Nature" I thought you would also go the other side of 0°C. I was thinking the chances of survivability of a DMM on a cold weather are much higher than on sunny hot weather. The obvious first casualty would be the LCD, thus it would have to be protected from direct sunlight. I imagine the second casualty would be the plastic enclosure, which depending on the material it will be affected by the UV. 

Summer is coming and maybe I get one of these and try to do a test here. With the temperatures we can reach here in Texas (sometimes we get +40°C in the shade), I suspect the little Brymen/Amprobe would not fare as well. I could also leave it in the attic, where temps easily reach +45°C (maybe more).

Oh well... thanks again for the video and keep on burning them!
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3338 on: April 16, 2019, 06:09:28 am »
As commented this was cryogenics for multimeters :P Currently have a TI 89 which had some corrusion, got cleaned with flux, new solder joints, powered up with 4xAAA no backup working, oven and 1 week on inside the car on summer for reflow :P, i believe 3 years ago. It is still working except for the backup battery. IMother nature took care of if. :P

About the vibration tests, planing to do a simple stir starter using a microphone instead of mems to check frequency peak only, eg using audacity or sox,

About battery testing :P here's a hint as attachment for creating dummy's
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3339 on: April 16, 2019, 12:22:43 pm »
Joe, interesting tests, but when you mentioned "Mother Nature" I thought you would also go the other side of 0°C. I was thinking the chances of survivability of a DMM on a cold weather are much higher than on sunny hot weather. The obvious first casualty would be the LCD, thus it would have to be protected from direct sunlight. I imagine the second casualty would be the plastic enclosure, which depending on the material it will be affected by the UV. 

Summer is coming and maybe I get one of these and try to do a test here. With the temperatures we can reach here in Texas (sometimes we get +40°C in the shade), I suspect the little Brymen/Amprobe would not fare as well. I could also leave it in the attic, where temps easily reach +45°C (maybe more).

Oh well... thanks again for the video and keep on burning them!

It doesn't get very warm here during the Fall to Spring months.    Having it sit in the car during the mid Winter months, the meter goes from a very cold temp to toasty and back to cold in a short time.   

My cars and bikes use LCDs in their instrument clusters.   The bikes have a back cluster.  The cars will sit in the sun with their windows up.  I have not seen an LCD fail in these conditions.

It would be interesting to have someone else try and replicate True's findings.   The claim was five of these all failing the same?   I would have expected that after everything I have exposed this one to that it would have been damaged.   True and his friend must have some magic combination.           
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3340 on: April 16, 2019, 12:45:43 pm »
Joe, interesting tests, but when you mentioned "Mother Nature" I thought you would also go the other side of 0°C. I was thinking the chances of survivability of a DMM on a cold weather are much higher than on sunny hot weather. The obvious first casualty would be the LCD, thus it would have to be protected from direct sunlight. I imagine the second casualty would be the plastic enclosure, which depending on the material it will be affected by the UV. 

Summer is coming and maybe I get one of these and try to do a test here. With the temperatures we can reach here in Texas (sometimes we get +40°C in the shade), I suspect the little Brymen/Amprobe would not fare as well. I could also leave it in the attic, where temps easily reach +45°C (maybe more).

Oh well... thanks again for the video and keep on burning them!

It doesn't get very warm here during the Fall to Spring months.    Having it sit in the car during the mid Winter months, the meter goes from a very cold temp to toasty and back to cold in a short time.
Yes, the wide variance in temperature would have a very extreme effect as well. However, I have no idea what would be the survivability rate of a meter inside a car during summer - in the worst days it can reach 55°C.

My cars and bikes use LCDs in their instrument clusters.   The bikes have a back cluster.  The cars will sit in the sun with their windows up.  I have not seen an LCD fail in these conditions.
Yes, I haven't either in my car and its LCD clusters, but none of them are in direct sunlight exposure. Leaving my ancient Fluke 27 or any other more modern meter facing the sun starts with a rainbow effect and culminating with a complete blackout.

I don't recall any permanent damage to the meters, but maybe a test like that would be one more datapoint between the various budget brands. If I am feeling brave, I may try that as well, but I don't have the same range of meters than you (I tend to resell the meters I evaluate, so I can keep on going with this hobby).

It would be interesting to have someone else try and replicate True's findings.   The claim was five of these all failing the same?   I would have expected that after everything I have exposed this one to that it would have been damaged.   True and his friend must have some magic combination.           
I kinda lost interest after he/she stopped responding. To our benefit, you kept pushing and came with a very interesting series of tests after that.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3341 on: April 16, 2019, 01:20:49 pm »
The bike's clusters can easily be in direct sun light.  I have a solar powered LCD watch that must be pushing 20 years old now that is left in the sun to charge.  I have run into problems with the displays washing out over wide temperatures.  You can see these effects in my temperature tests.  The only one I have seen damaged was on a used Fluke 97 I bought that required a new polarizer lens.

Its too bad True left.  I assume they were trolling just based on where they posted but you never know.  Personally I would have bought a different meter if one failed. There's no way I would buy three more.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 09:34:19 pm by joeqsmith »
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3342 on: April 16, 2019, 07:43:00 pm »
As commented this was cryogenics for multimeters :P Currently have a TI 89 which had some corrusion, got cleaned with flux, new solder joints, powered up with 4xAAA no backup working, oven and 1 week on inside the car on summer for reflow :P, i believe 3 years ago. It is still working except for the backup battery. IMother nature took care of if. :P

About the vibration tests, planing to do a simple stir starter using a microphone instead of mems to check frequency peak only, eg using audacity or sox,

About battery testing :P here's a hint as attachment for creating dummy's
Sorry.  I don't understand your vibration sound test.  I assume you are planning to make a stirring system but I am guessing where I am used to seeing a rotating part, you plan to do something that will viberate.  I am not sure how MEMS technology fits in but guessing you plan to use the microphone to measure the sound level.   You will need to know displacement at that frequency.   Then somehow you will use this to compare against some other vibration system?   

The picture appears like you are attempting to mold some pawn chess pieces.  Are you suggesting I make a mold to produce some dummy batteries?   If so, it may be easier for me to turn a few parts on a lathe.


Hi about the vibration sound test i need be able to control the vibration strength and adjust the bass pulses in order to stir, but no spill the liquid, depending on its viscosity the microfone would be a feedback to check if frequency is at least stable and repeatable, it doesn't need to be much accurate but repeatble. Thought i could use mic to get a rough measure of the displacement  but it is farfetch maybe...

About the mold it's a thing about a post when i told was gonna perform some battery measurements on multimeters and publish the results. Tried first atempt with aligator clips but they pose lots of losses. , so decided to use a mold  recreating shapes made of hot glue (chess pieces), to plan in the future make batery with glued contacts and proper wire to mate the DMM.
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3343 on: April 16, 2019, 09:42:49 pm »
About the mold it's a thing about a post when i told was gonna perform some battery measurements on multimeters and publish the results. Tried first atempt with aligator clips but they pose lots of losses. , so decided to use a mold  recreating shapes made of hot glue (chess pieces), to plan in the future make batery with glued contacts and proper wire to mate the DMM.

Your DMMs must draw a lot of current for you to measure lots of drop with an alligator clip.   

What does your liquid shaker system have to do with meter testing? 
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3344 on: April 16, 2019, 09:50:56 pm »
About the mold it's a thing about a post when i told was gonna perform some battery measurements on multimeters and publish the results. Tried first atempt with aligator clips but they pose lots of losses. , so decided to use a mold  recreating shapes made of hot glue (chess pieces), to plan in the future make batery with glued contacts and proper wire to mate the DMM.

Your DMMs must draw a lot of current for you to measure lots of drop with an alligator clip.   


What does your liquid shaker system have to do with meter testing?

The DMM used in question was the ut204A clamp meter which draws 7.91mA  in clamp meter mode  DC current, and a voltage drop from 9.25V to 9.15V is presentented between battery and terminals using that piece of crap aligator clips , very thin wires :(

As said was reusing the idea of a speaker for another project , forgot to mention that is not directly related to meters. :P
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3345 on: April 16, 2019, 10:11:35 pm »
About the mold it's a thing about a post when i told was gonna perform some battery measurements on multimeters and publish the results. Tried first atempt with aligator clips but they pose lots of losses. , so decided to use a mold  recreating shapes made of hot glue (chess pieces), to plan in the future make batery with glued contacts and proper wire to mate the DMM.

Your DMMs must draw a lot of current for you to measure lots of drop with an alligator clip.   


What does your liquid shaker system have to do with meter testing?

The DMM used in question was the ut204A clamp meter which draws 7.91mA  in clamp meter mode  DC current, and a voltage drop from 9.25V to 9.15V is presentented between battery and terminals using that piece of crap aligator clips , very thin wires :(

As said was reusing the idea of a speaker for another project , forgot to mention that is not directly related to meters. :P

So, 9.25-9.15 or 100mV drop / 7.91mA or 12.6 ohms!  Again, that alone should strike you as odd.  Just an FYI, I have a test running right now using a few feet or wire and alligator clips.  At 700mA, it is dropping 11mV across one test lead, that includes the alligator clip to the post of the fixture.  0.015 ohms?   

This thread has always morphed from the beginning.   From pictures of cats to now chess pieces.   :-DD
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3346 on: April 16, 2019, 11:17:59 pm »
I had a post of a paper with the measuring in this thread in native language .... Now the chess pieces is a part of learning process for creating the shape of the batteries. The material used as mold that i forgot to mention was modeling clay and can be reactivated with water even very hardened, but this process of reactivation take almost one day and using a stir starter would speed up the process.

Post with measured values of current on various modes of ut204A:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg2177561/#msg2177561

Yeah should figure out once the first reading of current but kept doing the test to check at least an expected value on other modes.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 12:16:17 am by malagas_on_fire »
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3347 on: April 17, 2019, 01:59:31 am »
a voltage drop from 9.25V to 9.15V is presentented between battery and terminals using that piece of crap aligator clips , very thin wires :(

That seems easy to fix - get some thicker wire, solder it to the clips.  :-//

 

Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3348 on: April 17, 2019, 02:15:55 am »
Don't trust the alligator clips even.... cheap crap are good for the recycle bin. Have spare contacts or crimping terminals , thicker wire, hot glue and banana connectors, not aligator :( , and the mold and shape off battery to press fit the contacts comes in place.
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Offline malagas_on_fire

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #3349 on: April 17, 2019, 06:46:05 am »
llooll i just came back with the aligator clips and the aligator fell out ..... the wire looks like it has some corrusion ... yeahhh sorry folks ..  :palm:

also the plastic around the aligator has hardened to the point it has no flex. garbage.... Edit ( dissect the broken one .. busted)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 07:27:26 am by malagas_on_fire »
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