Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter robustness testing  (Read 649757 times)

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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3750 on: July 18, 2020, 09:21:38 am »
This is for that ave agv ?? guy who was blabbing about safety all the while showing his hardware fuse installed.  Too stupid to buy the right one.  Worse, people watch this stuff and may actually believe the guy knows what he's doing.

Are you referring to AvE?
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3751 on: July 18, 2020, 03:30:38 pm »
This is for that ave agv ?? guy who was blabbing about safety all the while showing his hardware fuse installed.  Too stupid to buy the right one.  Worse, people watch this stuff and may actually believe the guy knows what he's doing.

Are you referring to AvE?

Yeah, that's the guy.   I used that example in one of my videos where I zoomed in to show the part number and I think I went over the datasheet for it.   If you are going to talk about safety,   at least have the common sense to order the correct fuse for the meter after you blow one out.

****
I looked for their original video and was unable to find it.   As I said, I had used that part in another video I made which can be seen here:

https://youtu.be/nXjVc4Rmg7Y?t=3104

****
See attached screen captures taken from their original video.   
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 05:42:50 pm by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3752 on: July 18, 2020, 04:24:41 pm »
Joe, good video from Fluke. I'll watch it later.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3753 on: July 18, 2020, 05:48:01 pm »
Joe, good video from Fluke. I'll watch it later.

Looks like they want you to provide them with your information to watch their safety course.  If you decide to watch this series, I'm interested in hearing what your take is on it. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3754 on: July 30, 2020, 11:38:52 pm »
I pulled this old junk meter from the trash bin.  It's missing the case.  The small glass filled fuse appears original.  The large fuse was missing.  I installed a smaller fuse to test it out and it appears 100% functional.    Shown at 10V, 1V and 1.0mV.

The board is marked
Fluke 7x-3001
REV L
E-2 (hand written)
CAD 585
REV L

Main IC is marked
FLUKE O
683052
22 84
L 255


It uses spark gaps for the primary clamps.  I doubt it would hold up very well to my transient tests but it seems to have had a useful life.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3755 on: September 07, 2020, 11:55:50 pm »
Finally got around to running the Fluke 77 from the trash bin.   

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3756 on: September 09, 2020, 01:22:47 am »
So far there have been a few suggestions on what to do with the meter before it heads back to trash bin.  One was life cycle the rotary switch.   If I had the case, I would have set this up.  Another was to run ESD tests on it.  My plan is to replace the damaged resistor and run that test.   Maybe then see if swapping out a few parts will allow the meter to survive to some higher levels.   Obviously, this is all dependent on if anything else was damaged, if it survives ESD, etc.   

So stay tuned for round II.   If you have anything you would like to see done with it, feel free to leave a comment.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3757 on: September 10, 2020, 11:44:13 am »
Part II.  Enjoy.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online bd139

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3758 on: September 10, 2020, 12:19:43 pm »
Interesting. I haven't watched Part II yet. The rotary switch is trouble on these older meters IMHO. I had a 77 for years (which was my father's before) which wore out eventually and caused problems. Also I got a Fluke 25 recently that the previous dum dum owner had blown up where the switch had actually melted and buckled.

Some graphic stupidity. Fuse go bang? Yeah it was supposed to. This is not the correct solution  :palm: :palm: :palm:



Ahh fuse replaced, now switch go bang. I've removed the top layer of wafer here to show the damage:



More  :palm: :palm: :palm:

Replacement analogue board were generously provided for the meter by another forum member and it lives but my word what a shit show.
 
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Offline wolfy007

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3759 on: September 10, 2020, 12:47:11 pm »
Part II.  Enjoy.


I think I have a parts unit 77 (had a nasty battery leak), I think I may have stolen the fuses and the fusable resistor, but it has a case and other bits in case you want to get it going and test in a proper case.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3760 on: September 10, 2020, 11:45:23 pm »
I think I have a parts unit 77 (had a nasty battery leak), I think I may have stolen the fuses and the fusable resistor, but it has a case and other bits in case you want to get it going and test in a proper case.
Someone else (perhaps you) had extended a similar offer in the YT comments.   I appreciate the offer but I don't have any plans to revive it.  It's not a rare meter and not something I would have a need for.  If it were a 189, I would change my tune.   Then again, if it were a 189, it would have survived. 

The battery had leaked at one point with this meter as well.  It's odd to think of needing to split the case in order to gain access to the battery.  You can really tell this meter is old from some of their early design choices. 

They go on to develop the skills to later design and produce some very good products becoming a world leader to what we have today. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3761 on: September 10, 2020, 11:49:45 pm »
Interesting. I haven't watched Part II yet. The rotary switch is trouble on these older meters IMHO. I had a 77 for years (which was my father's before) which wore out eventually and caused problems.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that the mechanical switch has a high failure rate.  Thinking back to when they were used in TV set tuners and how it was a constant battle to keep them working (no remotes or digital tuning).   It seems like Fluke mastered how to make a switch reliable on the PCB.  Same is true for Brymen.  After that, things get pretty dicey from the ones I have looked at.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline wolfy007

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3762 on: September 11, 2020, 12:59:50 am »
I think I have a parts unit 77 (had a nasty battery leak), I think I may have stolen the fuses and the fusable resistor, but it has a case and other bits in case you want to get it going and test in a proper case.
Someone else (perhaps you) had extended a similar offer in the YT comments.   I appreciate the offer but I don't have any plans to revive it.  It's not a rare meter and not something I would have a need for.  If it were a 189, I would change my tune.   Then again, if it were a 189, it would have survived. 

The battery had leaked at one point with this meter as well.  It's odd to think of needing to split the case in order to gain access to the battery.  You can really tell this meter is old from some of their early design choices. 

They go on to develop the skills to later design and produce some very good products becoming a world leader to what we have today.

Honestly, looking at the 8060A, they almost went backwards with the 77, my guess is it was made to a price point. Though the 8060A doesnt have great input protection, its a great meter in most other respects, including having a battery/fuse access door...  ::)
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3763 on: September 11, 2020, 01:30:10 am »
I think I have a parts unit 77 (had a nasty battery leak), I think I may have stolen the fuses and the fusable resistor, but it has a case and other bits in case you want to get it going and test in a proper case.
Someone else (perhaps you) had extended a similar offer in the YT comments.   I appreciate the offer but I don't have any plans to revive it.  It's not a rare meter and not something I would have a need for.  If it were a 189, I would change my tune.   Then again, if it were a 189, it would have survived. 

The battery had leaked at one point with this meter as well.  It's odd to think of needing to split the case in order to gain access to the battery.  You can really tell this meter is old from some of their early design choices. 

They go on to develop the skills to later design and produce some very good products becoming a world leader to what we have today.

Honestly, looking at the 8060A, they almost went backwards with the 77, my guess is it was made to a price point. Though the 8060A doesnt have great input protection, its a great meter in most other respects, including having a battery/fuse access door...  ::)

I wrote Fluke off after my first one and vowed to never own another.  It really wasn't until I started running these tests and beat the crap out of that 101  that I gained some respect for them and decided to have another look.   Outside of the odd 87V failure that I still don't understand and this old 77,  all of Flukes DMMs have done very well against my tests.   Today, outside of the Brymen BM869s, the only DMM I use on a regular basis is the Fluke 189.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3764 on: September 12, 2020, 02:05:51 am »
I think I have a parts unit 77 (had a nasty battery leak), I think I may have stolen the fuses and the fusable resistor, but it has a case and other bits in case you want to get it going and test in a proper case.
Someone else (perhaps you) had extended a similar offer in the YT comments.   I appreciate the offer but I don't have any plans to revive it.  It's not a rare meter and not something I would have a need for.  If it were a 189, I would change my tune.   Then again, if it were a 189, it would have survived. 

The battery had leaked at one point with this meter as well.  It's odd to think of needing to split the case in order to gain access to the battery.  You can really tell this meter is old from some of their early design choices. 

They go on to develop the skills to later design and produce some very good products becoming a world leader to what we have today.
Honestly, looking at the 8060A, they almost went backwards with the 77, my guess is it was made to a price point.

No, just different markets. The 8060A was a lab grade electronics meter, the 70 series was designed for the field and electrical use.
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3765 on: October 22, 2020, 03:06:56 am »
Talking about future videos and demonstrating Brymen's latest firmware for the BM869s. 

***
While making this video, I was very focused on the job which was changing that IC.   You don't want to damage the board or the IC.  As a result, I had forgot to press the record button when I was pulling the IC.   So, just imagine me there with my trusty heat gun....

« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 06:47:26 pm by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3766 on: October 22, 2020, 07:26:57 pm »
I plan to look at the Brymen BM786 next.   Normally I like to show several meters when I run the tests to give viewers some idea how they compare with the non-destructive tests. 

Because the BM786 is a 60K counte meter and supports AC+DC,  I am leaning towards meters that support AC+DC and are a minimum of 40K counts.  I have a few meters that may be a good fit. 

*Brymen BM869s, 50K, $230,  repaired, no mods
*CEM DT9939, 40K,  $120,   repaired, no mods
*Fluke 189, 50K,  no longer offered,  virgin   
Gossen M248B, 200K,   $850,  modified with added shield
*Summit TPI194II, 50K, $240, repaired, no mods
UEI 121GW, 50K, $213, virgin 
*UNI-T UT181A, 60K,  $300, repaired and modified layout but shouldn't impact the performance. 
YOKAGOWA TY720, 50K, $500, repaired

I am thinking to rule out the Yokagowa and Gossen because of their high costs. 
With it being a non-destructive tests, the UEI would seem like a good fit except it continues to have so many unresolved problems.

I plan to run basically the same tests I have been, starting with non-destructive and working my way up. 

If there is anything you would like to see, outside of the normal, feel free to ask.   
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 01:28:59 am by joeqsmith »
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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3767 on: October 22, 2020, 10:15:31 pm »
UEI 121GW, 50K, $300, virgin 

FYI it's AU$300 or US$213
 

Online Gregg

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3768 on: October 22, 2020, 11:06:19 pm »
Joe,
First I'd like to thank you for all of your efforts in testing multimeters in a no BS manner  :-+ :-+
Maybe you could include a Hioki DT4282 in your new round of tests.  I would lend you mine if you are only doing non-destructive tests.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3769 on: October 23, 2020, 01:57:08 am »
UEI 121GW, 50K, $300, virgin 
FYI it's AU$300 or US$213
I have changed my post above to reflect the cost you have quoted.   I have also updated the spreadsheet.   

Joe,
First I'd like to thank you for all of your efforts in testing multimeters in a no BS manner  :-+ :-+
Maybe you could include a Hioki DT4282 in your new round of tests.  I would lend you mine if you are only doing non-destructive tests.

That's a very nice gesture.  Because I work with somewhat high voltages during these non-destructive tests,  I imagine we could still damage a meter with them.   While I use HIOKI products on a professional basis and would like to believe that your meter would have no trouble, there's no guarantee.   It's why I run these tests, to find out.

We have seen cases where meters have been damaged by what I would have considered just normal operation.   One of the tests I apply a full rectified 220V 60Hz to the meters and run them through there various modes.   5 meters were damaged from that one test.   That weak grill starter is another test I would have never thought would damage any meter, yet 7 were.   I will get much larger jolts from the door knobs and such during the dry winter.     

While I am grateful for the offer, I have to decline as there will always be some level of risk.  Obviously, I am not risk-averse but I don't expect others to be.   Maybe I will have a look at another HIOKI product down the road. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3770 on: October 23, 2020, 11:11:45 pm »
Part 1


How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3771 on: October 25, 2020, 07:04:05 pm »
Part 2

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3772 on: October 26, 2020, 12:42:36 am »
As I said on the other thread: congratulations for the avant premiére version of the Brymen. This video series is off to a good start.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3773 on: October 26, 2020, 01:52:42 am »
Really outside of the odd autorange problem, it seems fine so far.  What bothers me about it is that Dave has had at least one version of a prototype for some time and now has shown the final case.  So he's had plenty of time to find what ever problems the meter may have.   With his brand being on it, I am sure he's been doing a thorough job of it.    I came across the problem in the first 15 minutes of looking at it.   So I am a bit concerned that it could be unique to this one meter.   It's also very possible that I am screwing something up.    We just have to wait and see what Brymen says. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter robustness testing
« Reply #3774 on: October 26, 2020, 03:15:39 am »
Well... Or you are really thorough with your tests, which may go under other people's radar screens. I do some tests on my channel but I did not assemble an HV setup like yours to validate the meters. It was always in my plans, but you know how life goes and how it affects hobbies... 😁
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 


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