Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter robustness testing  (Read 636902 times)

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Online Fungus

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Two new meters are on order.   Maybe in a week or so I'll have something to show....

A blue one...?  :popcorn:
 

Offline joeqsmith

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 :palm:

What meter is that?

It was 5ky's dt-9962T (rebranded Southwire)

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Two new meters are on order.   Maybe in a week or so I'll have something to show....

A blue one...?  :popcorn:

I would like to get one of his new meters when it becomes to see how it fairs with the others I have tested.   Maybe we will finally see one that holds it's own with the Flukes.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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The first of the two meters made it in today. 

The attached picture shows the old and new test leads I plan to start using.   The new generator is fairly low risk to use.  Once it is down with the five transients, it turns off the HV supply.  Still, it's possible to touch the exposed ends of the banana connectors and have the generator fire.   The new ends are made by Multi-Contact.   I also made up a new set of leads for the scope probe, so there is now no exposed contact area.   

The new leads are the same length and gauge so it should not make a difference when testing.  I'll keep the original leads for meters that do not support the new ends or when using the alligator clips.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Second meter arrived today.   One is blue.   

I picked up the UNI-T UT210E a few weeks back and took it to work where it was passed around and abused for a few days.   I don't think anyone had a bad word to say about it.   No one used anything other than the current clamp.   This is the first UNI-T product I decided to keep, for now anyway.    My plan is to see what sort of BW it really has then maybe modify it.   

Hope to start testing again soon.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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A few people has asked me about running the Vici VC99 meter.   At first glance, I saw it was only rated for CAT II 1000 and did not plan to run it.   However it seems like a fairly popular meter for some reason.   Looking at the packing, they mention Fluke.   My guess is the printing would have been "Compared".   Maybe suggesting this is some how like a Fluke?  They have the color very close but that transistor socket would need to go. 

Looking at page 1 of the manual, its a 3 7/6 digit meter.  Or 4 1/6.   

The last statement on page 1 states "Please don't modify the circuitry arbitrarily, it may cause safety problem."   It's a good point.

My plan for this meter will be to review it like the last few I have looked at, then run it with the 2 ohm source rather than the 12 ohms called for by CAT II.   
   

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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I wanted to make a couple of enhancements to my test jig before running these next meters.  During the shakedown run, I appear to have created a new rocket engine by accident.

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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The VICI VC99 takes on the Flukes

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #733 on: March 01, 2016, 12:04:14 am »
Spreadsheet has been updated.   The blue meter is next.
:scared:

I'll get my  :popcorn: ready, it's all gone watching the Vichi fry.  >:D



BTW, Joe, the thread title change is great.  :-+
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 12:10:11 am by tautech »
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #734 on: March 01, 2016, 03:44:32 am »
Great review on the VC99, Joe! Waiting for the smurf meter... ;)
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #735 on: March 02, 2016, 01:06:33 pm »
Great review on the VC99, Joe! Waiting for the smurf meter... ;)

Thanks.   Hopefully making more of a review, showing more how the meters are built and looking at the current inputs will be helpful to a few people.   

Just to be clear, the smurf meter is not the EEVBLOG rebranded Brymen.   A few people have asked about running a Hioki.  I am interested in it because it uses gas discharge tubes as part of its input protection like the Keysight meter.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #736 on: March 02, 2016, 10:07:44 pm »
Great review on the VC99, Joe! Waiting for the smurf meter... ;)

Thanks.   Hopefully making more of a review, showing more how the meters are built and looking at the current inputs will be helpful to a few people.   

Just to be clear, the smurf meter is not the EEVBLOG rebranded Brymen.   A few people have asked about running a Hioki.  I am interested in it because it uses gas discharge tubes as part of its input protection like the Keysight meter.
Either the Hioki, the Davymen or a Itinlu DMM should be an interesting review.

BTW, I really loved your experiments with GDTs: I always had the impression nothing else in the world was better than GDTs for protection and the only reason they weren't used more was simply cost.

This idea was etched in my brain due to the massive GDT panels in telco distribution boxes, which probably made sense to protect kilometers of cables and their comparatively large reactance - a very different scenario inside a tiny and sensitive equipment such as a DMM.

Hopefully the Hioki fares better than the Agilent. Looking forward for this one.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #737 on: March 02, 2016, 11:54:07 pm »
I saw where Martin?? did a review and talked about running a test like this using various parts.  Apparently he never got around to it or decided it was beyond his skill/comfort level.  It would have been interesting to see EEVBLOG put out a video like this as part of how the meter protection works.   Both of these guys could do a much better job than I have.    It's just hard to draw any conclusion from these tests.  My only goal was to show the difference in clamping speeds.   

The GDTs have their place for sure.   I think they would work very well in a meter if designed correctly but looking at how the Keysight  had no other clamp, I knew it was not going to fair well.   

Davymen?  Never heard of it.  Looked that the Itinlu, it's CAT II like the VICI and unfused.  Send a link for the other one and I will have a look at it.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #738 on: March 03, 2016, 12:34:05 am »
The GDTs have their place for sure.   I think they would work very well in a meter if designed correctly but looking at how the Keysight  had no other clamp, I knew it was not going to fair well.   

I don't think you can really say it was not designed correctly. The design meets the relevant safety requirements as intended, failed in a safe manner and although non-functional it presented no safety risk in that failed condition.

As a user of that meter, we may prefer that it continued to operate but we really don't know what the designers thought process on this was. It may be that they felt a meter which sustained this kind of an event should be withdrawn or serviced/checked before being put back into the field in which case remaining functional after the event was not important to them.

Also, if the meter was sent back after it failed in the field due to this kind of non-dellibrate event it would very probably be replace under warranty without a great deal of fuss.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #739 on: March 03, 2016, 01:10:53 am »
I don't think you can really say it was not designed correctly.

You may not think so but I stand by what I wrote. 

I have no idea if any of the meters I have looked at would fail in a safe manner or not if tested to the IEC standards.  These tests are about the electrical robustness of the meters.  If you want to know if a meter is safe or not, have it tested by an accredited lab.   

Do you feel the GDTs, MOVs, PTCs and secondary clamps are all there for safety alone?   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #740 on: March 03, 2016, 02:03:56 am »
I saw where Martin?? did a review and talked about running a test like this using various parts.  Apparently he never got around to it or decided it was beyond his skill/comfort level.  It would have been interesting to see EEVBLOG put out a video like this as part of how the meter protection works.   Both of these guys could do a much better job than I have.    It's just hard to draw any conclusion from these tests.  My only goal was to show the difference in clamping speeds.   
I too always wanted to do an evaluation with GDTs and equivalent protection devices (I did one on varistors). The main issues are the controlled high voltage generator and the companion probe - so yes, so far you are the best equipped of all of us.

Davymen?  Never heard of it.  Looked that the Itinlu, it's CAT II like the VICI and unfused.  Send a link for the other one and I will have a look at it.
Sorry, I thought I had edited the "Davymen" out as soon as I had realized it was an extremely lame attempt to brand Dave's Brymen. This should have never surfaced.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline RobertoLG

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #741 on: March 03, 2016, 03:09:57 am »
@joeqsmith

are you going to test the Digitek DT-2843R too? or you already did it?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 03:24:28 am by RobertoLG »
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #742 on: March 03, 2016, 03:16:46 am »
I saw where Martin?? did a review and talked about running a test like this using various parts.  Apparently he never got around to it or decided it was beyond his skill/comfort level.  It would have been interesting to see EEVBLOG put out a video like this as part of how the meter protection works.   Both of these guys could do a much better job than I have.    It's just hard to draw any conclusion from these tests.  My only goal was to show the difference in clamping speeds.   
I too always wanted to do an evaluation with GDTs and equivalent protection devices (I did one on varistors). The main issues are the controlled high voltage generator and the companion probe - so yes, so far you are the best equipped of all of us.

The probe is IMO one of the more useful things I made during this little adventure.   I never use my old Tektronix probe anymore.   It would not take a lot to build a generator.   I think the biggest mistake I made was not using modern parts.  But it was fun to wire wrap one last board and attempt to cram all that code in 2K.  Most of these tests are run below 10J.  Not something you want to mess with, but really I have a fair amount of safety built in to the system.   For example, covered leads now so there is nothing really exposed.  The generator turns off the power supplies once it is done and discharges them.  Of course I have my shorting stick.   And now the door that covers the meter if I am doing something stupid like looking at glass fuses.   I really only get concerned now when I play with that half cycle system.  When I use it, I arm it then walk away..   :-DD 


Davymen?  Never heard of it.  Looked that the Itinlu, it's CAT II like the VICI and unfused.  Send a link for the other one and I will have a look at it.
Sorry, I thought I had edited the "Davymen" out as soon as I had realized it was an extremely lame attempt to brand Dave's Brymen. This should have never surfaced.

That completely went over me!  :-DD :-DD  I would like to get a couple of the meters he is involved in working out the specs for.  One to benchmark and one for my own.    Last I looked they were still making changes to the specs.   Looking forward to seeing what they come up with.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #743 on: March 03, 2016, 03:25:51 am »
@joeqsmith

are you going to test the Digitek DT-2843R too?

You two just like seeing those glass fuses pop don't you?! :-DD   Looks like there is an 102KD14 MOV right across the input leads? Can anyone confirm this?
 

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline RobertoLG

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #744 on: March 03, 2016, 04:04:06 am »
yes, there is a MOV, a picture of mine, sory for the bad quality
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #745 on: March 03, 2016, 04:18:17 am »
I don't think you can really say it was not designed correctly.

You may not think so but I stand by what I wrote. 

I have no idea if any of the meters I have looked at would fail in a safe manner or not if tested to the IEC standards.  These tests are about the electrical robustness of the meters.  If you want to know if a meter is safe or not, have it tested by an accredited lab.   

Do you feel the GDTs, MOVs, PTCs and secondary clamps are all there for safety alone?

It's OK and I understand you are only testing robustness, but that is irrelevant to the point made. You are using your robustness criteria and passing a judgment on their design as being incorrect. My point was that their design criteria was possibly different to yours and based on their design requirement requirements it was designed correctly.

You don't have to like it, or buy their meter because of it, and it's perfectly valid to complain or criticize the electrical robustness of the meter that did not meet your expectations. But it's not correct to say it was not designed correctly based on your design criteria.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #746 on: March 03, 2016, 10:08:06 am »
I don't think you can really say it was not designed correctly. The design meets the relevant safety requirements as intended, failed in a safe manner and although non-functional it presented no safety risk in that failed condition.

It's OK and I understand you are only testing robustness, but that is irrelevant to the point made.

You come on here and want to post about safety on a meter that was tested at sub 20J.   Now you post you understand.   I doubt you have any clue what is going on in the videos which explains why you failed to answer my question.   

You are using your robustness criteria and passing a judgment on their design as being incorrect.
I have not edited my original post and stand by it.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #747 on: March 03, 2016, 10:13:17 am »
yes, there is a MOV, a picture of mine, sory for the bad quality

Thanks.   I have seen a placeholder for what appeared to be a MOV across the inputs on another meter.   I believe this is the first meter I have seen with a MOV on the front side of the PTCs. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #748 on: March 08, 2016, 01:12:44 pm »
For all of you Hioki fans, thanks for being patient.   Watch as their DT4252 is put to the test.

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #749 on: March 08, 2016, 01:47:06 pm »
Measure down to 10A...?  :-//
 


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