Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter robustness testing  (Read 648759 times)

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Offline PedroDaGr8

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #925 on: May 23, 2016, 03:58:08 pm »
Those leads catching on fire like that should be completely unacceptable. Smoking and melting is ok, catching on fire is not.

Also, I have a feeling the FLuke leads in china, just like the meters, are made by Uni-T (maybe to slightly better specs than their own stuff).
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 04:03:27 pm by PedroDaGr8 »
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #926 on: May 23, 2016, 11:57:44 pm »
I am not sure.  If you bought a meter that was not fused,  maybe buy a better meter?  If you are in the habit of jumping out your fuses, well some things can't be fixed.   No leads caught fire until they were pushed to destruction.   I'm thinking had I used the test leads tip as a contact at 50A, the tips would have been hot enough to melt the handle.   Keep in mind that the last Fluke probe from the 101 was dissipating over 450Watts when it caught fire!   

They all seem safe enough assuming a fused meter with the correct fuse, except for the Harbor Freight.   The Harbor Freight meter is not fused and even if it were the leads would not handle the 10A.    I ran 5 leads (not shown in the video) with the same results.   
 

Those leads catching on fire like that should be completely unacceptable. Smoking and melting is ok, catching on fire is not.

Also, I have a feeling the FLuke leads in china, just like the meters, are made by Uni-T (maybe to slightly better specs than their own stuff).
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #927 on: May 24, 2016, 07:06:54 am »
Those leads catching on fire like that should be completely unacceptable. Smoking and melting is ok, catching on fire is not.

I hope you don't work at the health and safety office and are thinking of putting up the price of all out multimeters and making the leads from some horrible plastic.  >:(

This situation is almost impossible in real life. Something else would fail first.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #928 on: May 24, 2016, 04:57:24 pm »
This is partly why I ran 5KY's UT61E.  I'm sure the UNI-T owners don't like it but it's good data and the meter was already dead several times over.   Even with the fuse jumped, the PCB could not handle the rated current.   Good leads in the harbor freight meter, measuring the output current of your welder.  That may be the winning real life combo!   

This situation is almost impossible in real life. Something else would fail first.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline blacksheeplogic

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #929 on: May 26, 2016, 09:01:41 am »
Those leads catching on fire like that should be completely unacceptable. Smoking and melting is ok, catching on fire is not.

Thanks to the EU, for the price of a good fused meter you can buy these instead. 10A with an interrupt rating of 20KA. Even with the fuse blown they still work, although, it's a scaled reading. Someone obviously though this was a good idea.

 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #930 on: May 26, 2016, 11:36:19 am »
Quote
Fluke provides protection through fusing in its digital multimeters (DMMs), but fused probes provide protection to those who have multimeters that lack the protection designed into Fluke models.

Sure, you picked up a free harbor freight meter with it's non fused 10A input.   

Quote
In addition to meeting entity and organizational requirements for fused test probes, you might also want fused probes because you’re interested in additional levels of protection.

Next you decide to spend over $100 for "additional levels of protection" when you go you check the current the mains provide to your house by looking across them.  :-DD  You blow you fuse/s and can't afford new ones because they cost more than your free meter.   So you jump them out.   

Quote
Voltage readings with a blown fuse are approximate and vary with the meter impedance.

 :-DD

http://en-us.fluke.com/community/fluke-news-plus/safety/new-fluke-accessories-keep-you-prepared-organized-and-safer.html

Thanks to the EU, for the price of a good fused meter you can buy these instead. 10A with an interrupt rating of 20KA. Even with the fuse blown they still work, although, it's a scaled reading. Someone obviously though this was a good idea.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #931 on: May 26, 2016, 06:26:02 pm »
Those leads catching on fire like that should be completely unacceptable. Smoking and melting is ok, catching on fire is not.

Also, I have a feeling the FLuke leads in china, just like the meters, are made by Uni-T (maybe to slightly better specs than their own stuff).
Pedro, IIRC these probes are required to use flame retardant plastic, not flame resistant.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #932 on: May 29, 2016, 12:45:29 am »
I was asked about running one of the Probe Master test leads to failure.  Until now, only the old Fluke probe survived to 60A.  The PM probes look like they use some nice cable.   They should for the price!   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #933 on: May 29, 2016, 01:07:53 pm »
I corrected the OD to add 0.10 to the spreadsheet.   I ran 46" of Belden 0905 8899 002 test lead wire as well.  This is 18 AWG.  For those wanting to make your own test leads, this may be one to consider.     

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqDxMGs_zfg&feature=youtu.be
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #934 on: May 29, 2016, 03:14:57 pm »
Plots showing the resistance of the probes included with my BM869s compared with the two Probe Master 8017S probes I tested.  The current is being swept from 2 to 20Amps. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #935 on: May 29, 2016, 04:23:30 pm »
Pictures of the Probe Master 8017S after pushing more than 60A through it.  I cut away the plastic to get a better picture of it.   The expose area of wire appears to be the hot spot.   The wire looks in very good condition.  Also shown are the pin's solder cup and wire tip.  There are no signs of the wire fusing.  It appears to have unsoldered from the heat. 

I wonder if they make these now with lead free solder and how they would differ.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #936 on: June 11, 2016, 03:02:31 am »
While waiting for Dave's thick brick meter to be released, I thought I would see if I could find some other brand to try out.   I emailed Gossen just to see if they would respond.  No luck.   :--    I may get one of their low end meters and give that a try like I did with Keysight. 

I came across a company in Korea who exports to the US.  One of their distributors is in Oregon.  They don't have the manual on-line for the meter I want to look at.  Not much in the way of reviews for them.   What's really strange is they seem to make some nice stuff. 

When I first started to look at running these tests, I had a couple of damaged meters.  One was a BK, the other some unbranded cheapo meter I picked up at Sears.  The Sears meter was made in Korea.  You may remember that meter took some major abuse while I was sorting out how much energy it was going to take to run these tests.   

So stay tuned while I blow the dust off the generator.. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 02:22:09 am by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #937 on: June 16, 2016, 12:54:26 am »
Finally, a meter that is not only designed to survive a 6KV transient but measure it too!    8)
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline gameru

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #938 on: June 17, 2016, 09:04:42 am »
Finally, a meter that is not only designed to survive a 6KV transient but measure it too!    8)

We will see a review?
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #939 on: June 17, 2016, 02:22:32 pm »
I had not thought about it.  I have used the older version of it as well.  The UI is a little different on this new one and I actually like it better.     They are pretty nice if you need this sort of equipment but they come at a price.   This one was around $10,000 US. 

When I was evaluating the original unit,  the HIOKI reps were really good to work with.  I explained what I needed it for and I wanted to run it against the normal CE tests as part of our evaluation process.  They had no problems with this and left the demo unit with me.   Keep in mind, so did other suppliers.   In the end I really liked this particular instrument.   That was maybe eight years ago.   

I would recommend have them bring one in and let let you try it out if you are interested.     There is also a fair amount of documentation on-line. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 01:28:16 am by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #940 on: June 19, 2016, 02:03:35 am »
Old thread on TPI

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-help/?action=post;last_msg=333115

TPI actually imports the product from Korea.  The manufacture is Summit.   The meters were UL certified (E188344).  It's also ROHS compliant.  The 194 was replaced with the 194II.   This is a 50K count meter rated for CAT IV 600V and CAT III 1000V.    One thing that sets it apart from any of the meters I have looked at it that it measures inductance.   It also has a tri-display. 

I've had the meter for a few days and it has some short comings.   I wrote TPI to make sure that my concerns were not unfounded.  My plan is do some sort of mini review like I have been, then see how it stacks up against the others..   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #941 on: June 19, 2016, 10:31:11 am »
Joe, the link should have been:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-help/

The 194 you mentioned seems to be very interesting, but the avocado green is really flashy! I wonder if it glows in the dark...  :-DD

Overall the specs are good. I was surprised to see a 50mVDC range, but then the ±10 digits brought me back to reality - it may be suitable mostly for trend analysis (similarly to the 500k count on my BM857). I like how they clearly specify the bandwidth in the AC specs. However, no mention of bargraph update rate (the text actually seems to indicate it is 4Hz).

BTW, nice Hioki meter!
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #942 on: June 19, 2016, 12:20:27 pm »
It looks like Kawasaki colors....  Very unique.  Think of it as a theft deterrent. 

The manual for the 194II shows for the 50mV range, 1uV resolution, 0.05% +5 counts.   The manual for the 194 shows +/-0.1% or reading, +/- 10 counts.   The older manual shows only the 192 having the inductance mode.   The picture of the 194 shown in that manual seems to back that up.   The newer 194II supports it. 

I was not able to find the newer manual on-line at Summit or TPI.    :--   I contacted TPI and they provided me with a PDF.  I would attach it but the 1M limit strikes again.   

Joe, the link should have been:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/multimeter-help/

The 194 you mentioned seems to be very interesting, but the avocado green is really flashy! I wonder if it glows in the dark...  :-DD

Overall the specs are good. I was surprised to see a 50mVDC range, but then the ±10 digits brought me back to reality - it may be suitable mostly for trend analysis (similarly to the 500k count on my BM857). I like how they clearly specify the bandwidth in the AC specs. However, no mention of bargraph update rate (the text actually seems to indicate it is 4Hz).

BTW, nice Hioki meter!
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #943 on: June 19, 2016, 09:56:38 pm »
If I understood correctly what you said, the 194I has inductance measurements? That is impressive. The 50mV scale improvement also turns it into a more interesting range. I guess they are able to reach these levels due to a reduced bandwidth.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #944 on: June 19, 2016, 10:24:49 pm »
If I understood correctly what you said, the 194I has inductance measurements? That is impressive. The 50mV scale improvement also turns it into a more interesting range. I guess they are able to reach these levels due to a reduced bandwidth.
Yes the 194II has an inductance measurement where the 194 did not.   

I found out about the brand from a friend who had one a few years back.  Apparently it was destroyed when gasoline was spilled on it.  I don't plan to do any chemical tests with this one.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #945 on: June 21, 2016, 10:43:18 pm »
I have started working on my review for the TPI194II.  In the mean time,  here is TPI's review of the 194. 

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #946 on: June 22, 2016, 04:42:54 am »
Made some good progress with the TPI meter.  I have a couple more tests to run and then pull it apart.   It's looking like I may start the transient testing before the end of the week.   

I wonder if it will at least survive the gas grill ignitor test.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #947 on: June 23, 2016, 12:48:28 am »
I would like to find someone who has the TPI 194II.   It appears to have a few software bugs.  I would like to know if they are unique to this one meter.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #948 on: June 24, 2016, 12:17:45 am »
I received a response today from TPI about one of the problems I was having with this meter.  You can decide if its a user problem, or a user interface problem.  I have finished with editing and I hope to have Part 1 uploaded shortly.   Because there is not a lot of information about the brand and particular meter, I am going to hold off a few days once I post the video before starting the transient tests.  This will give you an opportunity to review the video and if there is some test you would like to have ran, ask.    Once I start testing, you know how it goes.   Very few meters survive or are repairable.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #949 on: June 24, 2016, 03:25:05 am »
Here you go, part 1 of my review for the TPI194II made by Summit.   Again, after watching if there is something specific you would like to see done with the meter before it is transient tested, feel free to post it. 
   

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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