Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter robustness testing  (Read 648749 times)

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #950 on: June 25, 2016, 02:20:25 am »
In some of the other videos, I had used an RF generator and small antenna to see how sensitive the meters were to RF.   I forgot to do this with the TPI and will include it with part 2.   

TPI is checking into the scrambled data displayed after logging.  I think I will wait until next week before I start working on part 2 and give them a chance to find the problem. 

Strange that there is not more information about this brand out there.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline PedroDaGr8

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #951 on: June 25, 2016, 03:02:38 am »
In some of the other videos, I had used an RF generator and small antenna to see how sensitive the meters were to RF.   I forgot to do this with the TPI and will include it with part 2.   

TPI is checking into the scrambled data displayed after logging.  I think I will wait until next week before I start working on part 2 and give them a chance to find the problem. 

Strange that there is not more information about this brand out there.

The ONLY thing I know about this brand is that they supposedly make meters for Snap-On, like the EDM604AC which should look very familiar to you, and also Bluepoint (Snap-On value brand). I guess now though we know that they are made by Summit. Looking at their lineup they have several that are very clearly Summit meters.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 03:32:56 am by PedroDaGr8 »
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #952 on: June 25, 2016, 02:17:56 pm »
The one my friend had was sold under the Blue-Point brand.   He thought TPI had made the meter.  This is where I first heard about them.   

The ONLY thing I know about this brand is that they supposedly make meters for Snap-On, like the EDM604AC which should look very familiar to you, and also Bluepoint (Snap-On value brand). I guess now though we know that they are made by Summit. Looking at their lineup they have several that are very clearly Summit meters.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #953 on: June 30, 2016, 12:21:15 am »
No word from TPI yet about the scrambled data while logging.   I have been using the meter for normal day to day use and there are a few things worth mentioning.

The orange lettering on the lime green case makes it difficult to read.    It makes this sick sounding last breath death beep when turned off.   If the meter actually put out a decent sound level, It would really be bad.   Maybe this is why the audio is so low.   Turn it off, in the bad of my head I think cheap buggy meter.     This meter smells really bad.  It's been out of the box a week and it smells as bad as it did the first day I pulled it out.   

The meter itself has been working fine.   It still has the original battery.   I plan to give TPI the remainder of the week before I start working on part 2.   It won't be long...





How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #954 on: July 03, 2016, 09:39:02 pm »
Part 2 of the TPI 194 II


How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #955 on: July 03, 2016, 11:10:39 pm »
Did you damage the DMM with just 270V in the ohms range? This is quite poor result for a CAT IV 600V DMM.
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #956 on: July 04, 2016, 01:07:42 am »
There is a small transformer that I double the line voltage with, then full wave rectify and use this as the input to the meters.  So, yes, pretty much AC applied, rotated the switch and both the resistance  and conductance modes were damaged.   I could see this happening on the bench.   There really is a lack of protection in this meter which is very poor when you consider the price.   

However, the meter did fail safe and I was not injured during the testing, so the protection circuit did it's job.   Well that's what I see posted from time to time anyway.   :-DD   



Did you damage the DMM with just 270V in the ohms range? This is quite poor result for a CAT IV 600V DMM.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #957 on: July 04, 2016, 12:07:51 pm »
Joe, I feel bad for you for frying a $250+ meter (almost) beyond repair. Just like unfused current inputs, an unprotected ohms input is below acceptable in 2016...  :(
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #958 on: July 04, 2016, 05:21:28 pm »
Don't feel too bad for me.   I run these tests to see how well they perform.   I do agree with you 100%.   Having a meter that fails this or that stupid grill starter ESDish test is really bad and is really unacceptable for ANY meter.    But then again, the UT61E remains very popular, so  there are people that really don't care about this stuff.   

I did write TPI to see if I could get a replacement IC through them.  Keeping my fingers crossed that there will be a part 3! 

Joe, I feel bad for you for frying a $250+ meter (almost) beyond repair. Just like unfused current inputs, an unprotected ohms input is below acceptable in 2016...  :(
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #959 on: July 05, 2016, 11:47:52 am »
But then again, the UT61E remains very popular, so  there are people that really don't care about this stuff.   

The UT61E has a lot of counts for the price.

The horrible drift, temperature coefficients, etc., mean it's more like 2200 than 22000 in real life but "22000" is what people see.

Plus: The web is full of pictures&videos of people using UT61Es. A lot of people will assume it's a good meter based on that. Popularity breeds popularity.

« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 12:10:13 pm by Fungus »
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #960 on: July 05, 2016, 12:42:43 pm »
But then again, the UT61E remains very popular, so  there are people that really don't care about this stuff.   
Plus: The web is full of pictures&videos of people using UT61Es. A lot of people will assume it's a good meter based on that. Popularity breeds popularity.

I think there is a fair amount of truth to that. 

I thought about running some temperature tests on the meters that have survived.  I had done this with the UT210E after someone had asked about long term drift.   I think I could cram them all in there....
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #961 on: July 10, 2016, 12:41:06 am »
The free Harbor Freight and Innova 3320 meters are back again.  Both of these meters are non functional and have been through several tests.   I saved these as they had one feature I wanted to show off.   The can both measure 10A and are not fused.   

So, how much current does it take to damage a cheap non-fused meter, watch and find out.

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline SeanB

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #962 on: July 10, 2016, 06:09:45 pm »
Put them back together, with the leads, and return to Harbour freight. Say you took them out of the pack, and wanted to measure a single AA cell voltage, and this is what happened. Try to keep a straight face as they take the slightly abused part kit out of the package and look at it.

Who knows, if you video using the cellphone camera ( and you are in a single party state so do not need consent) another viral video will result.
 

Offline Maxlor

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #963 on: July 10, 2016, 08:57:07 pm »
Sales staff have to deal with exactly that kind of behaviour fairly often (except usually it's meant in earnest.) I doubt they'd appreciate the humor.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #964 on: July 11, 2016, 05:54:53 am »
Sales staff have to deal with exactly that kind of behaviour fairly often (except usually it's meant in earnest.) I doubt they'd appreciate the humor.

Yeah, they're probably on minimum wage and work long hours. They certainly won't know the nuances of multimeter safety. No need to go down there and try to make them look bad on camera over a freebie item.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #965 on: July 12, 2016, 08:42:03 am »
Put them back together, with the leads, and return to Harbour freight. Say you took them out of the pack, and wanted to measure a single AA cell voltage, and this is what happened. Try to keep a straight face as they take the slightly abused part kit out of the package and look at it.

Who knows, if you video using the cellphone camera ( and you are in a single party state so do not need consent) another viral video will result.

Maybe if I were a child. 

I have yet to turn a meter in for warranty but I may with the TPI.  They responded to my request to obtain a replacement control IC and offered to replace the meter.   I provided them with a link to the second video where the meter was damaged to make sure they understood that this was intentional.  If they are still willing to replace it, I may see if they would care if I attempted the ESD testing on this meter and maybe some of the surge testing on this meter prior to returning it. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #966 on: July 16, 2016, 10:59:30 pm »
All of the working meters went for a little car ride today. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #967 on: July 16, 2016, 11:03:25 pm »
Not a real good test but placed the Fluke DC standard outside the chamber, set for 1 volt.   Meters were held at 40C for 1 hour.  Opened the door to take for some pictures.   

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #968 on: July 16, 2016, 11:08:29 pm »
I used the Brymen as a reference for both sets of meters.   Notice that I had enabled the high res mode for the second set.   

I then took the meters to -10 C and again let them settle for about an hour.   Notice anything strange?
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #969 on: July 16, 2016, 11:13:45 pm »
The TPI/Summit 194II died.  I tried to cycle it a few times and no luck.  I warmed up the chamber to -5 and it powered up but would read 0V rather than 1.0.   

I took it out of the chamber and let it warm up but noticed I could no longer turn it off.   :-DD

After several minutes it returned to normal.  I could power it on/off and the voltage read the correct values.  Keep in mind that this meter is damaged and a new one may actually perform better.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #970 on: July 16, 2016, 11:22:05 pm »
Data I took before opening the door.   They actually did better than I expected.   Besides the TPI not working, the Fluke 101 & 107 had the most drift.  I really thought the two AMPROBEs and the Mastech were going to be the worse of them.

Note too how far out that AMPROBE AM530 is now.  I thought I had tweaked that meter in tighter than that when I repaired it.  Maybe not.  :-// 

Maybe some time I will run the higher res meters with a 1mV and get some more data points.   

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline PedroDaGr8

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #971 on: July 17, 2016, 01:09:09 am »
Nice study, too bad you couldn't test the UT61E in this with its known temp drift issues.
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #972 on: July 17, 2016, 10:28:56 am »
Joe, good unfused Amp testing (sorry, I am trying to catch up on my video queue)

One detail about the temp testing: I wonder if there was thermal influence in the lead contacts? I am thinking about the interface between different metals, cable resistivity, etc... Despite the voltmeters have a very high input impedance, the differences are in the 10-3 to 10-4 range...
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #973 on: July 17, 2016, 02:41:06 pm »
Nice study, too bad you couldn't test the UT61E in this with its known temp drift issues.

I looked to see if I could find the GS certified 61E for a reasonable price.   

Joe, good unfused Amp testing (sorry, I am trying to catch up on my video queue)

One detail about the temp testing: I wonder if there was thermal influence in the lead contacts? I am thinking about the interface between different metals, cable resistivity, etc... Despite the voltmeters have a very high input impedance, the differences are in the 10-3 to 10-4 range...

Glad you enjoyed the unfused testing.  If I could have found a reputable Amazon supplier of counterfeit large body HRC fuses, I would like to do just a fuse test.   

Yes, there will be an effect from the cables.  Thermal and resistance both.   This is true for inside the meters as well.  A few things to consider, I used the same brand/type of leads through the chain and the thermal effects are going to cancel for the most part.  If we look at the Brymen's location in the first test, we can see it is the second meter in the chain.   In the second test, it is the eighth meter in the chain.  The difference between these two locations in the chain is roughly 80uV.  However, the meter was set to high resolution on test and low during the other.   Actually, its a little worse on the first set where it's the second meter in the chain.    5KY's Fluke 107 has 4mV of error.  This is 18 times worse than the Brymen.  Consider the Fluke was the 4th in the chain in the second batch.

I updated the sheet to show the 5th place data for the Brymen and also included the first data set.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 


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