Author Topic: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789  (Read 22218 times)

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Online 2N3055

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #75 on: February 27, 2021, 07:14:57 pm »

In other words (and slightly provoking): It is better to know your tools and how to handle their rare limitations than to buy new gear and handle the permanent ballast.

I agree completely, and that is exactly why I got rid of F87V and use BM525, BM869 and MTX3293 as my daily drivers.
I learned to handle their rare limitations and avoided permanent ballast that I will never be able to do so many measurement that I can now. >:D
That formula works for everybody, with "substitute your priorities here" applied.

Also, slightly provoking, what I'm saying is that your familiarity with F87V is just that, familiarity.  Doing something for 20 years shapes how people think. Familiar way and right way start to look the same, even if it is not exactly like that.

After just  few weeks, I learned to drive the with muscle memory, and by single glance I know exactly what mode I'm in. Pressing a button, and visually checking the screen for mode is no different than movig rotary switch and visually checking if rotary switch is in right position.
I never just flip some switch without looking, and rely on "now it should be measuring ohms", without visually double checking if setup is right. I don't force the speed when doing something, i like more to be deliberate and thorough and analyse as I go, so few tenths of second for mode change are not a problem to me, I guess.

But as I said before, I respect that you like things that way, your prerogative. You do what you do. That is fine and F87V is excellent instrument.
And If you have other instruments (maybe benchtop) to fire up when you need more, than you have a winning combination.
Or you just don't need more any you only want quality and dependability and you can afford classic safe choice. Also perfect.
Best regards,

Sinisa
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2021, 07:34:49 pm »
If I need a short look at a pn-junction it is a one detent twist clockwise. Without checking the display I know the Fluke will give me a diode check. Coming back to resistance I know, the device will measure resistance again. Toggle, and I am in continuity.

If I was in continuity mode before the diode check, I'd want it to go back to continuity.

Same with current measurement. If I'm looking at DC current I want it to stay in DC current mode when I go between milliamps and microamps and back again. I don't want to press a button every single time. If I was working on sending microcontrollers to sleep and waking up (which I do) then I definitely wouldn't want a Fluke 87V for that job.

Doing something for 20 years shapes how people think.

That works for Brymens, too.

My Brymen has only two functions on the ohms range, ohms and continuity. Toggling is easy.

I can see how having a third function on there looks like a pain in the ass but it's not used much and I bet it won't take long for fingers to learn that continuity->ohms is two presses. Certainly less than 20 years.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2021, 07:36:20 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline rauldm

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #77 on: February 28, 2021, 06:54:04 pm »
Today I use Fluke, Keysight and Hioki like handled tools, each tool is good on somethings, but these 3 brands share similar diode test "technic" and AutoHold.
Yesterday sell out a Hioki Dt4253 for get DT4281 or Dt4282, the autohold of Hioki Dt4253 is bad compared with autohold the Fluke, I have  289, 28 II, 87V, 87 III, 179 and 117. Of keysight I have U1282A.
Adventajes
Most fast autorange speed, the king is Fluke 87 III, second is Hioki DT4253, (I hope DT428x works similar)
Most coherent characteristics and versatile meters, Fluke 289 and Keysight U1282A. Its major problem is size. Time span data log in fluke 289 is not easy to beat, keysigtht Ip67, bandwidth, square output and fast responsibe meter configured to 40 reads/s, is nice meter also, autorange speed is a shit.
Interesting functions Hioki, Hioki beeps when measure any parameter, display change of color (on Dt428x series), very good quality, similar size to Fluke 117 with better CAT rating, just CAT IV japan made.
Finally most used meter for me, Fluke 87V and 87III, zoom relative bar is great (not available on fluke 87 III) and more responsibe than Fluke 289, very good balanced functions, peak function is for me very important.

Complement meters, Fluke 117, 179 and 28II

Finally each person takes the meter o meters that does better work in specific area. If only you want a meter, the best option for me, for years has been Fluke 289. Perhaps Fluke 289 and Fluke 87 V just works for anything.

I see brymens for last 2 years ago, really first brymen I like too much is just BM789, I think is the most balanced meter that brymen to build. BM869 never I liked it. 100 kHz is good, but 60000 counts is very usuable on handled meter, for example for calibrating my E3631A power supply I use U1282A for 60000 counts display.  I think brymen missing does this meter with dual display and bluetooth.


 If you need high accuracy go for bench meter, really bench meter is to far of everything handled meter on prestations and accuracy terms, if you need just a versatile meter, i think this brymen 789 is better choice than Fluke 87V


Regards.
 
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Offline pjwum

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2021, 09:48:22 pm »
Finally each person takes the meter o meters that does better work in specific area.

This is absolutely true. There is no "better meter", only a suitable combo of equipment where a new meter might fit in or not.
 

Offline NEMAONTopic starter

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #79 on: March 09, 2021, 03:31:44 pm »
Hi all

Bought the BM789 today, with it's case and magnetic hanger.
Will post some photos if you are intrested...


 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #80 on: March 09, 2021, 08:37:16 pm »
Yes please :)
 

Offline rauldm

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2021, 04:10:53 am »
I hope you can test bandwidth, peak function, autorange speed.
Regards.
 
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Offline Electro Fan

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #82 on: March 10, 2021, 04:43:39 am »
I hope you can test bandwidth, peak function, autorange speed.
Regards.

Some bandwidth results are presented in reply 52:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-me-decide-fluke-87v-or-brymen-bm789/msg3481690/#msg3481690
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #83 on: March 10, 2021, 06:47:24 am »
I hope you can test bandwidth, peak function, autorange speed.
Regards.

Some bandwidth results are presented in reply 52:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-me-decide-fluke-87v-or-brymen-bm789/msg3481690/#msg3481690

Sorry, I have to point out that meters range of measurement in frequency measurement mode is quite different from frequency bandwidth of AC volts/ampere measurements...
One is a range of frequency counter, and the other is how accurate meter stays when you measuring AC voltage (current) of different frequencies.. They are not directly related.
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #84 on: March 10, 2021, 11:52:47 am »
I hope you can test bandwidth, peak function, autorange speed.
Regards.

Some bandwidth results are presented in reply 52:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/help-me-decide-fluke-87v-or-brymen-bm789/msg3481690/#msg3481690

Sorry, I have to point out that meters range of measurement in frequency measurement mode is quite different from frequency bandwidth of AC volts/ampere measurements...
One is a range of frequency counter, and the other is how accurate meter stays when you measuring AC voltage (current) of different frequencies.. They are not directly related.

Roger that, and thanks.  Point well taken.
 
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Offline paulbt

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #85 on: March 10, 2021, 08:24:59 pm »
  Hi !
  I found this topic and decided to spend maybe ~30mins to read carefully everyone's comment and opinion on this apparently little&humble question from the title. I was happy to notice that the discussion went offtopic quite subtle and it became 50% interesting, 25% funny and 25% psychology class.
  On the bottom of page #3 I've read this reply quoted below which I was hoping for. It's a simple and meaningful answer to this debate and I want to share my story related to the highlighted sentences...


May I give an example? I use resistance and continuity modes quite often. With the Fluke 87V I would just toggle between the two with a button. If I need a short look at a pn-junction it is a one detent twist clockwise. Without checking the display I know the Fluke will give me a diode check. Coming back to resistance I know, the device will measure resistance again. Toggle, and I am in continuity.

The Brymen can measure MORE. Yes, this is the reason it brings me to nSiemens mode when toggling between resistance and continuity. nSiemens could be useful, but I would need it just once a year. Now I have to skip this mode once or several times every minute. A quick diode check requires me checking the display for a potential capacitance mode. Rotating back to resistance I might be in continuity or resistance. Or nSiemens.

This would annoy me despite having more functions. My personal preference is a tool with a function set I use regularly and which excels in it's realm in ease of operation and speed. This is, in my opinion, where Fluke still is miles ahead.

I have a 179. It doesn't feature a uA range. If I do multiple precision measurements in a range this low (seldom) I grab an analog Metravo 4E. But for a quick measurement I just throw a 500 ohms resistor in the circuit and measure the voltage drop. I even don't need to reinsert  test leads.

In other words (and slightly provoking): It is better to know your tools and how to handle their rare limitations than to buy new gear and handle the permanent ballast.

  It took me a few years of buying, using and getting rid of many cheap/budget DMMs until I've figured out what I truly want in terms of ease of operation and truly need as features, regardless of the money. I reached a point when I had no dmm on my bench except the "2$" one that was thrown in the trunk of my car just in case I might need it once.
  A suitable option for me was the 87V which had all the features I wanted, but I hate the fact that resistance, continuity and cap were all three crowded on the same rotary switch position and diode was single on the next position. No thanks!
  Then I was looking for the 179 which has resistance and continuity as primary functions on two different switch positions and those less used diode and cap as secondary functions by pressing a button - well balanced and perfect for my needs, but unlike the 87V, the autohold was at a "twice button press" away, so no deal !
  By chance I found a 77IV for 1/3 of it's brand new price. I took the deal since I don't need trms, autohold is at a "single button press" away, the spec is tight at 0.X% ± 1 digit (which is great when measuring on the low end of the scale), has power-up options like "Poff" and "Loff", has super-fast continuity. No more words, it just fitted me.
  But of course this 77IV lacks some features I wanted since I was looking for the 87V: uA, temperature and relative(Δ). Since I don't own and can't afford a nice bench dmm as I have at my workplace (Keysight 34465), I was thinking that it might be a nice idea to have a second handheld dmm.
  I tried BM235, it is a nice little meter that works very well, but I hate the rotary switch is very stiff and the probe's jacks are almost in the way when rotating it. Also the auto-v lo-z mode is to the left of the OFF position which annoys me sometimes. That feature is mostly unused, if you really need you can improvise something and take care not to shock yourself. The same with NCV (EF) function, I think it's better to have a dedicated NCV detector or a DIY one from a handful of common parts. So...I got rid of the little Brymen, but I still have and use those sharp gold-plated probes.
  About 2 months ago I searched for something else similar with BM235, with autohold at one button press away, with the possibility to disable both auto power-off and auto backlight-off, default DC for volts and amps, better display viewing angle and contrast. I end up picking the U1241B which I happily use now together with the 77IV. And that's it...no more searching!
  A similar dmm option instead of the 77IV could have been the DT4252 which was on my radar, but looking at reviews I figured out I surely won't like the faded display, the fact that it blinks in resistance mode during overlimit and the beeping noises when measuring resistance or diodes (I hate noisy test gear!).

  @NEMAON: what I wanted to point out with my little story is that no matter what everyone else says/recommends/chooses, in the end it's down to your preferences and you should decide for yourself and take action to buy what you wish at that moment. If it turns out you don't get along well with your chosen dmm, you can easily sell it and pick the other one. I agree it's a mater of money and time sacrifice by doing so, but at some point you will settle down peacefully as I did. Don't forget that nothing is free/easy/for granted in this world, you are going to pay (sooner or later, in one way or another) for everything.
 
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."  Leonardo Da Vinci
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #86 on: March 11, 2021, 09:17:26 am »
Fast forward to BM789. Quality, safety, same as Fluke, proven fact. Price for a new one: you can buy two for the price of F87V, an some leftover money. It's shortcoming: they can measure MORE :-//. That is BAD :palm:... And my mind starts to bend..

May I give an example? I use resistance and continuity modes quite often. With the Fluke 87V I would just toggle between the two with a button. If I need a short look at a pn-junction it is a one detent twist clockwise. Without checking the display I know the Fluke will give me a diode check. Coming back to resistance I know, the device will measure resistance again. Toggle, and I am in continuity.

Maybe you just need to choose the Brymen model more carefully.  :)

When I bought my Brymen I chose the BM857 for the reasons you give. There's a matching BM859 that has extra functions like temperature but I have other devices for that. I test a lot of LEDs so I wanted the diode function on a separate selector position (which the BM857 has). I wanted DC current by default (Brymens remember the AC/DC setting). It beats the Fluke 87V on almost every specification, it can do more things, it also has a cheap RS232 option if you want that. I can buy three of them for the price of the Fluke.

In practice, the only thing I ever need to toggle is Ohms/continuity.

Mine's the one on the left below. The one on the right is the BM859 for comparison.


(I also liked the square "industrial" shape and smaller size than the BM869s)

The only thing I'd change would be to make the selector a bit bigger. It's not a problem in use but it seems out of proportion with the rest of the meter and it might work better if it was bigger.  :-//
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 02:19:28 pm by Fungus »
 
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Offline Electro Fan

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #87 on: March 11, 2021, 01:29:44 pm »
Some day there might be a DMM that has a nice (rotary?) hardware selector that is user (software) configurable in a way that enables the user to determine which functions with which labels appear in which position.  This would perhaps make individual users happy but might lead to challenges in team environments where standardization might be preferred for various reasons - which might lead to a feature for installing locked down policy configurations (kinda like corporate computers).  Or maybe Fluke, Brymen, EEVblog, et all will will figure it out, or maybe Aneng will just make every popular configuration.  Or maybe it will be like Nike basketball shoes and you will be able to custom order what you want prior to manufacturing.  :)
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #88 on: March 11, 2021, 02:18:50 pm »
Some day there might be a DMM that has a nice (rotary?) hardware selector that is user (software) configurable in a way that enables the user to determine which functions with which labels appear in which position.

Nah, it's a physical switch that connects voltages to each other.

If you're going entirely digital then you'll need relays for the switching and you'd be better off with buttons instead of a dial.

(or a touchscreen)
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #89 on: March 11, 2021, 03:04:40 pm »
The only thing I'd change would be to make the selector a bit bigger. It's not a problem in use but it seems out of proportion with the rest of the meter and it might work better if it was bigger.  :-//
Another is the tilting bale - it is pretty crap for such larger and heavier meter. The capacitance is not good, but that is just a small detail IMO. Otherwise, a very good meter.

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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #90 on: March 11, 2021, 03:33:37 pm »
The only thing I'd change would be to make the selector a bit bigger. It's not a problem in use but it seems out of proportion with the rest of the meter and it might work better if it was bigger.  :-//
Another is the tilting bale - it is pretty crap for such larger and heavier meter.

Oh, yeah, that too.  :-DD

This was my solution, a carefully color-matched piece of string:





Don't laugh until you've tried it, it's as solid as a rock this way. Every meter should have one!
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 05:48:08 pm by Fungus »
 
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Offline pjwum

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #91 on: March 11, 2021, 06:34:43 pm »
@Fungus: Cool fix, and aesthetically pleasing. You could even tune in the best readable LCD-angle. And I fully agree that this switch layout of the BM857 is perfectly effective.

@Paulbt: Thanks mate, glad to meet a brother in mind. Your 77iv and the Keysight is a very nice complementing combo.
 
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Offline Analog4

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #92 on: March 11, 2021, 08:52:18 pm »
The biggest problem with the Brymen in the USA is the lack of distribution and warranty. Greenlee has not picked up the BM789 design variant yet.

In the USA it is easy & cheap to get a used Fluke 87V on eBay.
 

Offline paulbt

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #93 on: March 12, 2021, 01:41:24 pm »
Some day there might be a DMM that has a nice (rotary?) hardware selector that is user (software) configurable in a way that enables the user to determine which functions with which labels appear in which position.

Nah, it's a physical switch that connects voltages to each other.

If you're going entirely digital then you'll need relays for the switching and you'd be better off with buttons instead of a dial.

(or a touchscreen)

Hi!

Just noticed your statement and it made me wonder...Testo dmms have relays inside? or how do they switch from voltage to current measurement? Can it be done with the same multiplexing technique that I know it's used for second functions on a "normal" dmm? In either case, how to they manage to keep the CAT rating (clearances and other HV safety stuff) when there is no rotary switch?

I'm sorry the discussion went waaaay offtopic, but it's just too interesting (for me atleast).

See attached picture below...

« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 01:44:21 pm by paulbt »
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."  Leonardo Da Vinci
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #94 on: March 12, 2021, 08:04:26 pm »
how do they switch from voltage to current measurement?

They probably detect when you insert a lead in the current socket and switch to current mode when you do.

(I don;t own one of those exact meters but I own something similar)

how to they manage to keep the CAT rating (clearances and other HV safety stuff) when there is no rotary switch?

The rotary switch comes after the safety system, it isn't part of it.
 
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Offline HAO

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #95 on: September 15, 2021, 06:51:09 am »
Does anyone know where to buy BM789 with lastest firmware 78908 ? TME or Welectron ?
 

Online Caliaxy

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #96 on: September 15, 2021, 01:02:02 pm »
Does anyone know where to buy BM789 with lastest firmware 78908 ? TME or Welectron ?

I got mine from Welectron back in May (because it was out of stock at TME). It came with 78908. TME has it back in stock now, so we can safely assume the new batch has the latest version of the firmware as well.
 
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Offline HAO

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2021, 03:00:51 pm »
I got mine from Welectron back in May (because it was out of stock at TME). It came with 78908. TME has it back in stock now, so we can safely assume the new batch has the latest version of the firmware as well.

TME confirmed firmware 78908 now is in stock !

 

Offline AlexTee

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #98 on: November 06, 2021, 06:16:04 am »
Hi. Did anyone recently order BM789 from TME? Does it come with the magnetic shield over the buzzer already installed from the factory? I am asking this, because the first batches didn't include any.
 

Offline elekorsi

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Re: Help me decide : Fluke 87V or Brymen BM789
« Reply #99 on: November 07, 2021, 08:47:57 pm »
I ordered it from TME, about a month ago, but i don't know what magnetic shield you are talking about?

I nedeed additional handheld DMM and decided to try something else than fluke...
What i can say about the 789 is that it is OK, but i expected a bit more after reading all the posts about it. Rotary selector is quite stiff, feels like something on 20€ DMM... Most anoying to me is that the OFF position is not the last one on the selector :palm: i think i managed to turn it off in first shot only once ot twice until now....
All the instruments that i use on field (DMM, current clamps, handhled scope, insulation tester...) are from Fluke and no one can convince me that it's not the best. For the bench use it doesn't really mather,  Brymen is OK. But when you put them into rough enviroment Fluke is the only thing that works. Most abused meter i have is a simple 179, which has seen from heavy dust and rain to oil and grease, and is still doing great...
« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 08:49:44 pm by elekorsi »
 


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